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View Full Version : One big Steelers blunder: Kraig Urbik



BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:10 PM
He just signed an extension with the Bills. Their offensive line has been playing extremely well this year. He is a pretty good NFL guard. Too bad we can't develop O-linemen.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/18/report-bills-sign-kraig-urbik-to-contract-extension/

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 01:39 PM
Some of us knew that when we gave up on him way too early:stirpot

I really interested to see if Kugler is part of the problem with the OL. I was his biggest supporter two years ago but can we honestly say he has made the OL better?

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 01:52 PM
Kraig Urbik would have been a difference maker...:rolleyes:

pfelix73
12-18-2012, 01:57 PM
I was never a fan of Kugler. Average coach. Bring in Tunch.+

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Kraig Urbik would have been a difference maker...:rolleyes:

****, he has been for the Bills. Have you seen the way they run the ball?

fezziwig
12-18-2012, 02:01 PM
I too thought we gave up too early on Urbik. Not that I know so much about football but, I had a feeling he would eventionally do well enough. With all the injuries, troubles developing o-linemen I just don't know what to think. One, I put a lot of blame on Arians and that he showed no kindness to this unit with play calling, schemes and okay, not having a real blocking back. I know alot of teams do not have full backs but, it was foolish to toss good guys away when, you knew your o-line wasn't getting it done.
Are the Steelers so foolish at picking o-linemen or coaches to coach them up ? No........Arians was always the trouble and Haley recognizes it with his play calling. Not that Haley is so great, I still would like to see him mix things up more with the running, passing, big passes, screens and all that but, it's still his first season with the team and he's doing the on the job training with guys he has just met.
This last game against the Cowboys, I doubt Urbik would have been an improvement for the Steelers o-line. Sometimes it looked like a jailbreak with these guys during that game.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 02:01 PM
****, he has been for the Bills. Have you seen the way they run the ball?

With CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson? Yeah...

D Rock
12-18-2012, 02:01 PM
Yeah I'm not at all sold on Kugler as a good coach. He made his name on being able to juggle the lines for the Bills and Steelers through injuries. That is a good trait to have, but it doesn't mean he is good at developing talent.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:09 PM
With CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson? Yeah...

Fred Jackson has been hurt all year, Have you seen Spiller's first few seasons. This was his breakout year.

Your probably right, It depends way way more on the RB than the o-line.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-18-2012, 02:20 PM
Some of us knew that when we gave up on him way too early:stirpot

I really interested to see if Kugler is part of the problem with the OL. I was his biggest supporter two years ago but can we honestly say he has made the OL better?

He can only work with what he is handed to work with. You can't make a beautiful sculpture out of dog crap. Plus, even if he did make those supposed to start better, its hard to show it in the trainers room or in sweats on the sidelines on Sunday's.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-18-2012, 02:23 PM
He sounds like a really crappy coach....

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/ron-cook/when-kugler-says-jump-his-players-ask-how-high-665593/?print=1

When Kugler says jump, his players ask 'how high?'
December 9, 2012 12:21 am
By Ron Cook / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
First, there was former Pitt line coach Joe Moore, perhaps Pittsburgh's most revered football coach. "There are levels of goodness and levels of greatness," former Pitt tackle Jim Sweeney said after Moore's death in 2003. "Then, there's the level just below God. That's where I put coach Moore."
Then, there is Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau. His players adore him. "If he tells us to jump off a cliff, I believe we would do it," former Steelers defensive end Aaron Smith once said. "If he tells us to do anything, we do it because we know it's the right thing."
Now, there is Steelers offensive line coach Sean Kugler. He doesn't have Moore-status here just yet or LeBeau-status. But he was well on his way. "Every one of us would run through a wall for him," guard Willie Colon said last week.
Kugler shares a common trait with Moore and LeBeau. That is a big reason Texas-El Paso -- his alma mater -- reached out to him late last week to make him its head coach. Steelers coach Mike Tomlin sees it in Kugler, who will finish his season with the Steelers.
"The players know he's doing everything he can to make them better. When guys are trying to be the very best they can be and they want to stay in this business for as long as they can, they're going to respect any coach who works that hard trying to extend their career."
It takes most coaches years to build the relationship that Kugler has with his players, if they ever do. Kugler is in just his third season with the Steelers. He doesn't waste time.
Tomlin talked about Kugler's "demeanor and disposition being assets. ... His glass is always half-full." Colon talked about Kugler's willingness to "chop your head off when you aren't doing right, but he never does it in a way that embarrasses you. And he's always the first guy to pick you up." Kugler said it's just a matter of "being honest and upfront" with the players. "They want to be told what they have to do to be successful. If you are consistent with them, they're going to respond. I'm lucky. I never have a bad day with this group. They never complain, no matter what I ask them to do. And they always give me their best. I never have any doubts about that."
The latest example happened before the game Sunday against the Baltimore Ravens. Kugler asked All-Pro center Maurkice Pouncey to leave his comfort zone and move to left guard in place of the injured Colon. Backup Doug Legursky could have played left guard, but he is much better at center. "He never hesitated," Kugler said of Pouncey. "He said, 'Whatever you need for the team, coach.' I knew that's what he was going to say. That's the type of player he is. That's the type of person."
Somehow, the Steelers were able to beat the Ravens with Pouncey at left guard, Legursky at center and rookie Kelvin Beachum making his first NFL start at right tackle. Beachum became the third man to start at the position this season after injuries to Marcus Gilbert and Mike Adams. It didn't matter. He and the other linemen played a strong game, maybe their best of the season.
Juggling players is nothing new to Kugler. Last season, the Steelers started a different offensive line in each of the first seven games because of injuries or ineffectiveness. In 2010, they made it to Super Bowl XLV despite having only three linemen -- left guard Chris Kemoeatu, Pouncey and right tackle Flozell Adams -- play exclusively at one position. The projected line Kugler inherited before that season had left tackle Max Starks, left guard Kemoeatu, center Justin Hartwig, right guard Trai Essex and right tackle Colon. The line that started in the Super Bowl six months later was, from left to right, Jonathan Scott, Kemoeatu, Legursky, Foster and Adams.
That's some serious juggling.
"Nothing stops. The game goes on," Kugler said. "You've got to prepare and you've got to win. You've got to answer the challenge."
Starks said Kugler "makes the game simple" for the linemen. Tomlin talked of Kugler being a "very fluid communicator ... a great educator." Colon merely gushed. "[Kugler] prepares us like no coach I've ever been around. I've never gone into a game, asking, 'Is this the right scheme against this defense?' We believe in him and he believes in us."
Colon might be closer to Kugler than the other linemen. He called Kugler "my rock" when he missed all but the first game last season and all of the 2010 season with injuries. "He had the other guys to get ready and worry about, but he never turned his back on me. I would call him in the wee hours of the morning when I was feeling down. It was like he was my 24-hour hotline. He kept me going. He was my inspiration."
Kugler still is.
"He gives you everything he's got to make you better," Colon said. "He expects the same out of you. He demands so much."
Kugler gets it from his players, all of it. Since he's been with the Steelers, their line has been better collectively than the individual parts indicate it should be.
Moore got the same results from his linemen. "He could make you believe you were better than you were," former Pitt offensive tackle Mark May said.
Sound familiar?
Moore wasn't just respected by his linemen at each of his coaching stops. He was worshiped.
Kugler is getting there. Quickly.


First Published December 9, 2012 12:00 am

pfelix73
12-18-2012, 02:24 PM
IF Spiller were on this team, he'd be running and gaining all those yards and TD's just like he does for the Bills. We need a big time RB, and let's face it, the guys we have now are just avg.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:34 PM
IF Spiller were on this team, he'd be running and gaining all those yards and TD's just like he does for the Bills. We need a big time RB, and let's face it, the guys we have now are just avg.

This is complete bull****. How about Alfred Morris with the Redskins? You don't need an elite back to run the ball in the NFL anymore. You need a great o-line.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 02:42 PM
****, he has been for the Bills. Have you seen the way they run the ball?

I've seen Spiller make 3 guys miss in the back field and gain 15 yards.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 02:44 PM
This is complete bull****. How about Alfred Morris with the Redskins? You don't need an elite back to run the ball in the NFL anymore. You need a great o-line.

I'm not stalking you Rob... I promise.

Redskins are using a gimmick offense... once teams get a year of film on RGIII and his deadly ball fakes I doubt Morris or that OL will be as impressive. I don't remember Morris running all over us and I also watched Carolina keep their O in check.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:45 PM
I've seen Spiller make 3 guys miss in the back field and gain 15 yards.

This proves what? That he doesn't need a good o-line? Or he's doing it by himself? This is the most asinine argument that can be made. Unbelievable.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:46 PM
I'm not stalking you Rob... I promise.

Redskins are using a gimmick offense... once teams get a year of film on RGIII and his deadly ball fakes I doubt Morris or that OL will be as impressive. I don't remember Morris running all over us and I also watched Carolina keep their O in check.

Your ignoring the fact that Mike Shanahan has always had success running the ball with non-elite backs. Part of it is scheme, a large part of it is good o-line and coaching.

Snatch98
12-18-2012, 03:22 PM
IF Spiller were on this team, he'd be running and gaining all those yards and TD's just like he does for the Bills. We need a big time RB, and let's face it, the guys we have now are just avg.

Speed kills and Spiller has it. He has ELITE speed and that's the difference. I also disagree that they guys we have are "average" but with our play calling and inconsistent line play it's been tough sledding. I still believe that Mendenhall behind a o-line that is worth a damn and inventive play calling he's the guy we need. Spiller is shifty and once again has elite speed. Mendenhall has very solid speed but not Spiller speed.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 03:24 PM
Speed kills and Spiller has it. He has ELITE speed and that's the difference. I also disagree that they guys we have are "average" but with our play calling and inconsistent line play it's been tough sledding. I still believe that Mendenhall behind a o-line that is worth a damn and inventive play calling he's the guy we need. Spiller is shifty and once again has elite speed. Mendenhall has very solid speed but not Spiller speed.

Giving way too much credit to Spiller. He deserves credit, but so does his offensive line.

Outside of Decastro and Pouncey, who is even average? I would say Starks is just average.

SidSmythe
12-18-2012, 03:25 PM
Not only do the Bills run the ball effectively. They're also at the top of the league in fewest sacks allowed

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 03:26 PM
This proves what? That he doesn't need a good o-line? Or he's doing it by himself? This is the most asinine argument that can be made. Unbelievable.

It proves a great running back makes an OL look great...

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 03:29 PM
Not only do the Bills run the ball effectively. They're also at the top of the league in fewest sacks allowed

Fitzpatrick has 15 INT's and 7 fumbles.. Fitzpatrick isn't afraid to chuck it but he is afraid of being hit. I've watched a game or 2 and he tosses the ball anytime he is pressured.

Don't get me wrong... I wish Ben would chuck a few more instead of taking the sack but it's not his style.

lloydroid
12-18-2012, 03:33 PM
I'm not going to be to tough on them for ditching Urbik; if you recall he had cinder blocks for feet when he was here. He was very un-athletic to the point of barely being able to move.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:44 PM
****, he has been for the Bills. Have you seen the way they run the ball?

Yep..and same thing with Kevin Zeitler of the Bengals (first year starter), I had a post last year with you tube clips showing him manhandling people and all I heard was he cant be good because he plays at the same university as Kraig Urbik did.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 04:01 PM
Not only do the Bills run the ball effectively. They're also at the top of the league in fewest sacks allowed

Not really. There are 13 teams that have allowed fewer sacks this year than Buffalo...

Buffalo has given up 28 sacks while the Steelers have given up 31...it's not a big difference at all...

BigRob
12-18-2012, 04:04 PM
Not really. There are 13 teams that have allowed fewer sacks this year than Buffalo...

Buffalo has given up 28 sacks while the Steelers have given up 31...it's not a big difference at all...

Yeah, but what are their rushing numbers? Oh, I forgot it was all Spiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllllllllllller!

Steelers have that few of sacks because Ben missed 3 games and offense is designed for short quick throws. Not so for the Bills.

If we had their rushing ability with Big Ben, we would be fighting for a bye right now.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 04:11 PM
Yeah, but what are their rushing numbers? Oh, I forgot it was all Spiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllllllllllller!

Steelers have that few of sacks because Ben missed 3 games and offense is designed for short quick throws. Not so for the Bills.

If we had their rushing ability with Big Ben, we would be fighting for a bye right now.

Ben averages .7 yards more per attempt than Ryan Fitzpatrick...per attempt!!!

Spiller and Jackson have rushed for almost 4200 yards combined over the last three years and they still have two more games...

What about our top 2 backs?

BigRob
12-18-2012, 04:22 PM
Ben averages .7 yards more per attempt than Ryan Fitzpatrick...per attempt!!!

Spiller and Jackson have rushed for almost 4200 yards combined over the last three years and they still have two more games...

What about our top 2 backs?

Average per attempt means ****. Thats a QB thing, not how the offense is designed. Bills offense is a mid to deep passing offense. Fitzpatrick is just ****. Can't even compare them.

Steelers are a short to intermediate passing team.

And again I'll ask you: The Offensive line has nothing to do with their running success? It's all Jackson/Spiller.

That's just laughable.

Is it that hard to admit that the Steelers blundered and gave up on Urbik too soon? He has developed into a starting caliber guard in the NFL. Your saying we couldn't have used that this year?

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 04:32 PM
urbik would be no better than a back up here. He couldn't beat out foster then and he couldn't beat out foster now.

I would take him over legursky in a heartbeat though.

lloydroid
12-18-2012, 04:57 PM
It proves a great running back makes an OL look great...

Dwyer made this OL look good for a few games, and then I don't know what happened after that.

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 05:01 PM
urbik would be no better than a back up here. He couldn't beat out foster then and he couldn't beat out foster now.

I would take him over legursky in a heartbeat though.

On this we can get back to our normal disagreement. Urbik still being here would be a starter. Neither Colon or Foster are world beaters at Guard. They are average starters and nothing more.

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 05:03 PM
Dwyer made this OL look good for a few games, and then I don't know what happened after that.

I know what happened. Colon got hurt and we now have a rookie Guard playing RT after Adams got hurt.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 05:08 PM
On this we can get back to our normal disagreement. Urbik still being here would be a starter. Neither Colon or Foster are world beaters at Guard. They are average starters and nothing more.

yeah, we will never agree on this. Your speculation that urbik would be a starter here just doesn't hold up. In the few times that I watch the bills, I pay attention to urbik and he is consistently average in every respect. I dont believe he would be anything better here and I base that off of the coaches decision to cut him loose. They are the ones who actually saw him in practice everyday and decided they had better options at that time.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 05:15 PM
urbik would be no better than a back up here. He couldn't beat out foster then and he couldn't beat out foster now.

I would take him over legursky in a heartbeat though.

Tough to say. He' at least as good as Foster now. I know it would sure be nice to have him for depth.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 05:17 PM
why do you believe he is as good as foster?

I don't watch him play a lot, just here and there.

to me foster looks like the better player.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 05:20 PM
why do you believe he is as good as foster?

I don't watch him play a lot, just here and there.

to me foster looks like the better player.

We will find out what teams think. Either the Steelers will sign Foster to an extention or another team will sign him. We'll see what he gets compared to Urbik's extension.

All I know is a line-up of Starks, Urbik, Pouncey, Foster, Beachum while Decastro was out is superior to Legursky playing and moving Pouncey to guard.

Urbik is a nice run blocker.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 05:24 PM
oh I agree on that, legursky stinks. Urbik is much better than he is for sure.

it will be interesting for sure to see what foster gets on the open market. I do know the steelers have had a bargain this far in regards to his pay/play ratio. His pass pro this year has been outstanding as referenced by the rankings at the depot.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 05:33 PM
oh I agree on that, legursky stinks. Urbik is much better than he is for sure.

it will be interesting for sure to see what foster gets on the open market. I do know the steelers have had a bargain this far in regards to his pay/play ratio. His pass pro this year has been outstanding as referenced by the rankings at the depot.

Bah, Profootball Focus doesn't rank anyone on our O-line anything more than average.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 05:35 PM
Bah, I'm just telling you what the guys over there report after watching the all 22.

please post the PFF rankings. I would be interested in seeing them.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 05:37 PM
Bah, I'm just telling you what the guys over there report after watching the all 22.

please post the PFF rankings. I would be interested in seeing them.

Honestly, I find Steelers Depot to be very amateurish.

I will see if I can get a hold of the PFF rankings. I know they have Starks at the 39th best Tackle out of all starting Tackles.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 05:38 PM
huh.

I disagree.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 06:18 PM
Average per attempt means ****. Thats a QB thing, not how the offense is designed. Bills offense is a mid to deep passing offense. Fitzpatrick is just ****. Can't even compare them.

Steelers are a short to intermediate passing team.

And again I'll ask you: The Offensive line has nothing to do with their running success? It's all Jackson/Spiller.

That's just laughable.

What do you mean I can't compare them? If the Bills were a mid-to-deep passing offense, Fitzpatrick's YpA would be higher. The guy completes 62% of his passes. You can't say a point doesn't mean **** just because you don't agree.

I never said that the offensive line has nothing to so with their rushing success. You said that, not me. I just think that their rushing success has more to do with Spiller and Jackson than with Urbik.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 06:55 PM
Look, I don't think Urbik is a bad player. He's just not the savior of the Bills' running game. He's not the second coming of Faneca or Wisniewski.

In Pittsburgh, he had to either nail down a starting job or have position flexibility. He went 0 for 2. It's fine that he was able to find a fit with another team. It doesn't necessarily mean that he belonged here.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 07:25 PM
What do you mean I can't compare them? If the Bills were a mid-to-deep passing offense, Fitzpatrick's YpA would be higher. The guy completes 62% of his passes. You can't say a point doesn't mean **** just because you don't agree.

I never said that the offensive line has nothing to so with their rushing success. You said that, not me. I just think that their rushing success has more to do with Spiller and Jackson than with Urbik.

Just because their offense is designed for intermediate and long throws, doesn't mean Fitzpatrick can or will take advantage of it. All you have to do is look at Chan Gailey's system. Easy to see.

Secondly, not hard to see the Steelers blundered and let a good/decent guard go after one year for no reason. Who did they keep that was better?

Urbik gets some credit for starting on that line. Whether you want to admit it or not, they get credit for the great rushing stats as much as the running back.

RuthlessBurgher
12-18-2012, 08:30 PM
In the 3rd round of the 2009, we drafted Mike Wallace and Keenan Lewis after Kraig Urbik.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Ml2out3vinyl.JPG/220px-Ml2out3vinyl.JPG

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 08:32 PM
Just because their offense is designed for intermediate and long throws, doesn't mean Fitzpatrick can or will take advantage of it. All you have to do is look at Chan Gailey's system. Easy to see.

Secondly, not hard to see the Steelers blundered and let a good/decent guard go after one year for no reason. Who did they keep that was better?

Urbik gets some credit for starting on that line. Whether you want to admit it or not, they get credit for the great rushing stats as much as the running back.

Urbik gets some credit for starting on that line. That doesn't mean he would be starting on this one...

Urbik is what he is: an average NFL guard.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-18-2012, 08:35 PM
Urbik got extended by the Bills.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 08:45 PM
Urbik gets some credit for starting on that line. That doesn't mean he would be starting on this one...

Urbik is what he is: an average NFL guard.

Means he's better than most of our OL. He is probably the equal of Foster and Colon. And he's stayed healthy.

Could of went 3 for 3 in 2009.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 08:53 PM
Means he's better than most of our OL. He is probably the equal of Foster and Colon. And he's stayed healthy.

Could of went 3 for 3 in 2009.

how does that mean he is better than most of our OL?

again, what have you seen from urbik that makes you say this? The fact that he signed an extension that was for absolutely average money?

could we use him now with all of the injuries, sure. Back then? He couldn't win a spot.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 09:01 PM
Means he's better than most of our OL. He is probably the equal of Foster and Colon. And he's stayed healthy.

Could of went 3 for 3 in 2009.

Yeah, okay...

BigRob
12-18-2012, 09:07 PM
how does that mean he is better than most of our OL?

again, what have you seen from urbik that makes you say this? The fact that he signed an extension that was for absolutely average money?

could we use him now with all of the injuries, sure. Back then? He couldn't win a spot.

If he's average, he's better than most of our OL. Him and Foster are pretty much equals.

Do you hate Foster? Get off Urbiks balls, he's turned into a good starting caliber guard.

Buffalo reaped the benefit of Steelers 3rd round pick and they blundered by not keeping him. Who would they have lost if they had kept him?

With all of these injuries, they could have used him this year.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 09:26 PM
you don't read too good if you think I'm a foster hater.

and if anyone is on Urbiks balls in this thread, it certainly isn't me. He is an average NFL guard. Did we send him packing a year too early? Maybe, but at what expense really. He isn't an elite guard by any stretch of the imagination.

projecting roster moves from two years ago to the current injury situation seems foolish to me.

SS Laser
12-18-2012, 09:46 PM
Would love to see how Colon, Foster, and Urbik rank on pro football focus. Anyone?

Mister Pittsburgh
12-18-2012, 10:15 PM
By this, Foster ranks as one of the worst 10 OG in pass blocking efficiency in the NFL...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/13/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards/

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 10:58 PM
By this, Foster ranks as one of the worst 10 OG in pass blocking efficiency in the NFL...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/13/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards/

Not a surprise. Our interior OL with Kemo and Foster was the reason Ben got killed last year and why if a top Guard like Chance Warmack is there in Round 1 we shouldn't hesitate to go OL again.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 11:11 PM
Not a surprise. Our interior OL with Kemo and Foster was the reason Ben got killed last year and why if a top Guard like Chance Warmack is there in Round 1 we shouldn't hesitate to go OL again.

yeah, it had nothing to do with a qb that has a propensity to hold the ball too long.

that study covers the 1st three years of an UDFA career in the NFL. Hardly surprising he isn't in the upper echelon, though I wish this year had been included.

it sure is funny how the same people who railed against drafting OGs in the first round now seemingly want to draft one every year. These are not premium positions. Draft and develop along the interior, IMO. No need to fill with high draft choices.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-18-2012, 11:24 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/21/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards-and-centers/

in this Urbik was the top rated pass blocking OG. I was personally pissed we cut Kraig way too early when we did it.

SS Laser
12-19-2012, 01:02 AM
Here is another on off. line for early this year: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/24/offensive-line-rankings/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/24/offensive-line-rankings/2/

9. Buffalo Bills
PB = 4th, RB = 18th, PEN = 20th
They’re a worse team for not being able to call upon rookie Cordy Glenn every week, but they do a good job in keeping pressure off Ryan Fitzpatrick (he doesn’t need any assistance making mistakes). The run blocking is a little “meh”, with the team taking the approach that Spiller and Jackson will get yards regardless of what they do.


24. Pittsburgh Steelers
PB = 11th, RB = 31st, PEN = 27th
When you consider how they’ve been riddled with injuries this isn’t too bad. Now, if Mike Adams can continue to play the way he did against the Bengals, they’ll be moving up swiftly.

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:28 AM
These are not premium positions. Draft and develop along the interior, IMO. No need to fill with high draft choices.

One one hand you say this, and on the other hand you say the Steelers didn't blunder by not doing this with Urbik. Hypocritical.

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:29 AM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/21/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards-and-centers/

in this Urbik was the top rated pass blocking OG. I was personally pissed we cut Kraig way too early when we did it.

But, but, the Steelers didn't make a mistake letting him go.

Oviedo
12-19-2012, 09:33 AM
But, but, the Steelers didn't make a mistake letting him go.

They definitely made a mistake. We wouldn't had been stuck with Kemo last year and wouldn't had been forced to retain Colon this year. Even though some can't admit it, Urbik has turned out to be better than any Guard we have had playing this season.

Slapstick
12-19-2012, 09:38 AM
Again, I say this and it cannot be denied...

Urbik would have stayed on the team if he had done one of two things:

1) Win a starting job

or

2) Have positional flexibility as a backup

He either didn't do that or was not able to do that here. It's wonderful that he's found a place in the NFL. But, I wish he could have done that here. He couldn't. You can feel free to judge him on whatever he is able to do in Buffalo. I prefer to look at what he accomplished here, which was being cut....

Mister Pittsburgh
12-19-2012, 09:40 AM
He did have position flexibility. He could back up at 2 of the 5 line positions....offensive guard.

Slapstick
12-19-2012, 09:42 AM
He did have position flexibility. He could back up at 2 of the 5 line positions....offensive guard.

Could he? Are you sure?

pfelix73
12-19-2012, 10:53 AM
This is complete bull****. How about Alfred Morris with the Redskins? You don't need an elite back to run the ball in the NFL anymore. You need a great o-line.

You need BOTH. Steelers have a good OL, they just need a RB that can get the job done.

I used to play OL in college. When we had a great RB, we were the kings of the hill, (OL) when he got hurt- no so much. (Same line too). Wonder why?

feltdizz
12-19-2012, 11:03 AM
You need BOTH. Steelers have a good OL, they just need a RB that can get the job done.

I used to play OL in college. When we had a great RB, we were the kings of the hill, (OL) when he got hurt- no so much. (Same line too). Wonder why?

yeah... I'm not sure how a person can point to a rushing attack with CJ Spiller as proof the OL is better with Urbik. Is their Center better than Pouncey because of their rushing attack compared to ours?

One could say our rushing attack is better because we had a few 100 yard games with Redman and Dwyer... IMO that's more impressive. These guys have no moves and are pretty slow compared to Spiller.

Oviedo
12-19-2012, 11:46 AM
You need BOTH. Steelers have a good OL, they just need a RB that can get the job done.

I used to play OL in college. When we had a great RB, we were the kings of the hill, (OL) when he got hurt- no so much. (Same line too). Wonder why?

Do you honestly believe the Steelers have a "good OL?" Really? What games are you watching?

Slapstick
12-19-2012, 11:59 AM
Do you honestly believe the Steelers have a "good OL?" Really? What games are you watching?

Asked and answered:


One could say our rushing attack is better because we had a few 100 yard games with Redman and Dwyer... IMO that's more impressive. These guys have no moves and are pretty slow compared to Spiller.

Also, the Steelers have given up only 3 more sacks than the Bills...

BigRob
12-19-2012, 01:09 PM
Asked and answered:



Also, the Steelers have given up only 3 more sacks than the Bills...

Yet it also has been shown that Urbik is better than Colon or Foster in pass protection.

Some people just can't admit the Steelers make mistakes with players just like other teams.

Slapstick
12-19-2012, 01:34 PM
Yet it also has been shown that Urbik is better than Colon or Foster in pass protection.

Some people just can't admit the Steelers make mistakes with players just like other teams.

So, you deny that Urbik had two training camps in Pittsburgh to show what he could do? To earn a starting job or learn another position?

Slapstick
12-19-2012, 01:38 PM
The Steelers made a mistake with James Harrison, what, three times? And so did the Ravens...

Does that make it a blunder? Or did he just not show enough in the time he was here? Luckily, Harrison happened to be on the roster and get a chance due to injury when the light came on for him...

With Urbik, unfortunately, the light came on in Buffalo....

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:13 PM
So, you deny that Urbik had two training camps in Pittsburgh to show what he could do? To earn a starting job or learn another position?

Nope, who did they keep that was better? Legursky?

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:16 PM
The Steelers made a mistake with James Harrison, what, three times? And so did the Ravens...

Does that make it a blunder? Or did he just not show enough in the time he was here? Luckily, Harrison happened to be on the roster and get a chance due to injury when the light came on for him...

With Urbik, unfortunately, the light came on in Buffalo....

If James Harrison had turned into a huge star with the Ravens, it would have been a blunder. Just like it was a blunder for the Ravens not to hold onto Harrison.

We're talking about a 3rd round pick here. Not an UDFA.

I'm not saying other teams don't blunder, but the Steelers fuc*** up on this one.

Tells me we have some real ****ty OL coaching. Urbik got what amounted to one year with the Steelers. You can call it two training camps, but it amounted to 12 months. That was bull****.

Harrison got more opportunities than our 3rd pick got.

flippy
12-19-2012, 02:21 PM
The real blunder we had in the not too distant past was Mike Vrabel. We're supposed to be able to coach up LBs, but boy did we miss on him.

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:24 PM
The real blunder we had in the not too distant past was Mike Vrabel. We're supposed to be able to coach up LBs, but boy did we miss on him.

Yep. Although I remember the Steelers having a glut of LB'ers at the time. Or maybe I have poor memory.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-19-2012, 02:25 PM
hold on a second. Are we calling kraig urbik a "huge star"? That's ridiculous.

urbik is an average NFL guard nothing more. Did the steelers give up on him too early? That case certainly has some merit, but to act like he would be a difference maker on this OL is just not true, IMO.

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:27 PM
hold on a second. Are we calling kraig urbik a "huge star"? That's ridiculous.

urbik is an average NFL guard nothing more. Did the steelers give up on him too early? That case certainly has some merit, but to act like he would be a difference maker on this OL is just not true, IMO.

Didn't say he was a huge star, but we sure as hell could have used him the last two years.

It was a blunder. He's better than Foster and more consistently healthy than Colon. Would have been nice to have.

Slapstick
12-19-2012, 02:31 PM
Nope, who did they keep that was better? Legursky?

Positional flexibility. IIRC, they gave Urbik and opportunity to work out at center. He didn't work out....

Same thing with Foster. Can play guard or tackle...

Beachum? Guard or tackle...

Eddie Spaghetti
12-19-2012, 02:31 PM
I don't think he is better than foster.

that is where we differ.

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:32 PM
Positional flexibility. IIRC, they gave Urbik and opportunity to work out at center. He didn't work out....

Same thing with Foster. Can play guard or tackle...

Beachum? Guard or tackle...

So you cut a guy that can develop into a starting guard for Legursky? That was a blunder.

Legursky is a center pure and simple and has been destroyed every time he plays guard. That's position flexibility? That was a stupid move.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-19-2012, 02:34 PM
I agree on legursky.

he adds little or nothing to the OL.

flippy
12-19-2012, 02:35 PM
Yep. Although I remember the Steelers having a glut of LB'ers at the time. Or maybe I have poor memory.

I think he was behind Gildon and Porter when he left. Plus we might not have ever needed Harrison, so it worked out ok. But Vrabel still was a really good player that we never gave a chance. Reminds you that sometimes guys get a little lucky based on where they end up. I think there's a lot of good guys on bad teams that would be better than some great players on good teams if given the chance.

There's a lot of luck in getting to the right situation.

BigRob
12-19-2012, 02:37 PM
Yes, no team is perfect.

But it is OK to say your team screwed up.

ikestops85
12-19-2012, 05:58 PM
I still remember someone on this site posted that Urbik was not a practice player but did great in games. I think that has proven to be true. The Bills had a lot of injuries and stuck Urbik in a game. He has played well since. I think he even played a lot at center one year.

I thought we gave up too early on him but hey, everybody makes mistakes, even the Steeler heirarchy. I'll take the Steelers track record on personnel decisions and match them up against any other team.

ikestops85
12-19-2012, 05:59 PM
I agree on legursky.

he adds little or nothing to the OL.

I disagree. He is a very decent backup center who would start on many teams in this league.

fezziwig
12-19-2012, 06:03 PM
I still remember someone on this site posted that Urbik was not a practice player but did great in games. I think that has proven to be true. The Bills had a lot of injuries and stuck Urbik in a game. He has played well since. I think he even played a lot at center one year.

I thought we gave up too early on him but hey, everybody makes mistakes, even the Steeler heirarchy. I'll take the Steelers track record on personnel decisions and match them up against any other team.


I remember that too that he was a better game time player than practice time player. Oh well, the past is the past and they need to deal with what they have. I still can't believe Cowher kept Okobi on his teams for so long. You never know what impresses a coach or what irks a coach about a player.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-19-2012, 06:05 PM
I'm not up on the strength of the center position around the league, but to me legursky looks like a marginal NFL player, regardless of position.

Chadman
12-19-2012, 06:23 PM
Remember watching Urbik beaten in the one-on-one drills at the combine with regularity. He performed badly in the drills. Nothing Chadman saw of Urbik as a Steeler changed that view.

feltdizz
12-19-2012, 06:34 PM
[QUOTE=ikestops85;539127]I disagree. He is a very decent backup center who would start on many teams in this league.[/QUOTEn

I agree.. Legs is good at Center... but horrible at any other position. I didnt notice a drop off when Legs replaced Pouncey.. not saying he is as good as Pouncey but he wasnt a liability.

NorthCoast
12-19-2012, 08:48 PM
IF Spiller were on this team, he'd be running and gaining all those yards and TD's just like he does for the Bills. We need a big time RB, and let's face it, the guys we have now are just avg.

Agree pfelix...been saying the same for a while. I know some are stoked on Mendenhall if the line improves, but I still think he is a middle tier RB that is easily replaced. maybe I am spoiled from watching so many games with Bettis bowling over defenders, but I sure do miss those days. Not a single back on the roster has a knack for making the first guy miss or breaking a tackle, that is the biggest problem I see. always brought down by the first guy across the line....

Mister Pittsburgh
12-19-2012, 09:44 PM
I still remember someone on this site posted that Urbik was not a practice player but did great in games. I think that has proven to be true. The Bills had a lot of injuries and stuck Urbik in a game. He has played well since. I think he even played a lot at center one year.

I thought we gave up too early on him but hey, everybody makes mistakes, even the Steeler heirarchy. I'll take the Steelers track record on personnel decisions and match them up against any other team.

You need look no further then the player in your sig picture. We are just lucky the Rats cut him too!

Look at Starks. It's pretty obvious Tomlin doesn't like him for reasons other than his performance.

RuthlessBurgher
12-19-2012, 11:59 PM
[QUOTE=ikestops85;539127]I disagree. He is a very decent backup center who would start on many teams in this league.[/QUOTEn

I agree.. Legs is good at Center... but horrible at any other position. I didnt notice a drop off when Legs replaced Pouncey.. not saying he is as good as Pouncey but he wasnt a liability.

Bronko Legursky was also decent as a situational goal-line fullback (back when Arians didn't employ an actual fullback).