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View Full Version : There could be a bright spot in all of this....



Dee Dub
12-17-2012, 04:56 PM
Can you say Manti T'eo!!!! There's a chance. Right now Steelers are at pick number 16 and could go up as high as 7. If they get anywhere near pick number 10...it's on!!:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:tt1:t t1:tt1

Major centerpiece to any defense.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-17-2012, 05:03 PM
this team can't afford to trade away picks.

sorry dub.

Dee Dub
12-17-2012, 05:05 PM
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh where did I say we needed to trade away draft picks? If thew Steelers continue to slide, they will end up around the 10th overall pick. And there is a very good chance that T'eo could be there at that spot.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-17-2012, 05:07 PM
my bad.

misunderstood your post.

phillyesq
12-17-2012, 05:11 PM
I really like T'eo. Seems like a playmaker and a good kid. But I'd rather have the shot, however slim, at a playoff run.

Oviedo
12-17-2012, 05:21 PM
I really like T'eo. Seems like a playmaker and a good kid. But I'd rather have the shot, however slim, at a playoff run.

I'm really torn because I love making the playoffs and anything can happen, but I really think this team doesn't have it this year and I don't want that sick feeling of being one and done like last year.

A chance to get Manti T'eo would be a sweet consolation prize.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-17-2012, 06:27 PM
T'eo in black and gold...I like the idea. I think he could really help this team. We need playmakers and leaders; he seems to fill the bill on both counts.

flippy
12-17-2012, 06:45 PM
What if the bright spot was Lombardi #7 in the case?

NJ-STEELER
12-17-2012, 06:46 PM
after watching this debacle of an offense

why oh why would you even think about drafting defense in the 1st round

focosteeler
12-17-2012, 07:05 PM
If T'eo isn't available I would try and trade away our first for an early-mid 2nd rounder and a 2014 1st. The 1st next year looks awesome and having 2 picks in the first would be crazy

focosteeler
12-17-2012, 07:06 PM
after watching this debacle of an offense

why oh why would you even think about drafting defense in the 1st round

because next year keisel, hampton, harrison, clark, troy, foote are all another year older

Mister Pittsburgh
12-17-2012, 08:03 PM
We would draft him and he may contribute by 2014!

Mister Pittsburgh
12-17-2012, 08:04 PM
because next year keisel, hampton, harrison, clark, troy, foote are all another year older
And most are FA after this season, no?

RuthlessBurgher
12-17-2012, 08:11 PM
And most are FA after this season, no?

I think just Hampton and Foote from that list.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-17-2012, 08:15 PM
I think just Hampton and Foote from that list.
Others are Lewis, Mundy, will Allen. I thought Keisel was as well and McLendon. Guess not.

RuthlessBurgher
12-17-2012, 08:29 PM
Others are Lewis, Mundy, will Allen. I thought Keisel was as well and McLendon. Guess not.

Keisel's due to make $2,825,000 in salary for 2013 and will be a free agent in 2014. McLendon will be a restricted free agent this offseason, so we can keep him with an RFA tender for at least one more year.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-17-2012, 08:31 PM
What has happened to McLendon? He was a beast for a while, out shining Casey easily, then it seems he never plays anymore.

RuthlessBurgher
12-17-2012, 08:38 PM
What has happened to McLendon? He was a beast for a while, out shining Casey easily, then it seems he never plays anymore.

Maybe he fumbled twice.

Dee Dub
12-17-2012, 08:47 PM
after watching this debacle of an offense

why oh why would you even think about drafting defense in the 1st round

We are talking about maybe the 10th overall pick. Not seeing any offensive players in that area who would have a greater impact than T'eo.

BigRob
12-17-2012, 08:52 PM
We are talking about maybe the 10th overall pick. Not seeing any offensive players in that area who would have a greater impact than T'eo.

Name the last team to take a MLB in the top ten picks and turn out to be a game changer? Can't do it. T'eo is not Patrick Willis.

You don't take him with the 10th pick. Maybe with the 15th pick. You take a game changer with the 10th overall pick. We're winning one of the last two games and picking 15 to 18.

I'd be pissed if we take T'eo and pass on a game changer that rushes the passer with the 10th overall pick.

hawaiiansteel
12-17-2012, 09:24 PM
Mel Kiper recently predicted that the Chiefs would take Manti Te'o with the No. 1 overall pick.

Dee Dub
12-17-2012, 09:30 PM
Name the last team to take a MLB in the top ten picks and turn out to be a game changer? Can't do it. T'eo is not Patrick Willis.

You don't take him with the 10th pick. Maybe with the 15th pick. You take a game changer with the 10th overall pick. We're winning one of the last two games and picking 15 to 18.

I'd be pissed if we take T'eo and pass on a game changer that rushes the passer with the 10th overall pick.

Well then you wouldn't be getting equal value then. The pass rushers that would be there at 10? Barkevious Mingo, Sam Montgomery, etc., are all having down years. Even your boy Dion Jordan has had a lack luster year. Is that what you really want?

By the way have seen what Luke Kuechly (9th overall pick), has done this year?

Any ILB who can play down hill, go sideline to sideline, and is above average in pass coverage, is a blue chipper who doesn't come around all that often. And that is what T'eo is.

Dee Dub
12-17-2012, 10:20 PM
Mel Kiper recently predicted that the Chiefs would take Manti Te'o with the No. 1 overall pick.

I could see that. He is special. He is the type of player you build a defense around.

hawaiiansteel
12-17-2012, 10:30 PM
I could see that. He is special. He is the type of player you build a defense around.

I watched Te'o play a couple of times while he was in high school, he was truly a man playing amongst boys.

Ghost
12-17-2012, 10:52 PM
I hate ND with all my heart, truely despise them, and would love Te'o in the black and gold.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 10:26 AM
Not a ND fan either but I watch them every week out of hate... The kid is good but I don't think he is THAT good. Their front 7 our beast... but I also watched PITT totally destroy them on the ground and Teo was abused by Graham in the open field.

Don't get me wrong... he could be solid but I don't think he is a game changer at the next level and I would be disappointed if we picked him at 10.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 10:32 AM
Well then you wouldn't be getting equal value then. The pass rushers that would be there at 10? Barkevious Mingo, Sam Montgomery, etc., are all having down years. Even your boy Dion Jordan has had a lack luster year. Is that what you really want?

By the way have seen what Luke Kuechly (9th overall pick), has done this year?

Any ILB who can play down hill, go sideline to sideline, and is above average in pass coverage, is a blue chipper who doesn't come around all that often. And that is what T'eo is.

Stop it. He isn't as good as Kuechly.

Teo is decent but I think there are a good 3 or 4 LB's in the SEC who are better than Teo... I think he is average in pass coverage and should be available in the middle of the 1st round. I wouldn't have a problem picking him 15th... not 10th though...

RuthlessBurgher
12-18-2012, 11:37 AM
Junior Seau was picked 5th overall once upon a time.

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 11:41 AM
Stop it. He isn't as good as Kuechly.

Teo is decent but I think there are a good 3 or 4 LB's in the SEC who are better than Teo... I think he is average in pass coverage and should be available in the middle of the 1st round. I wouldn't have a problem picking him 15th... not 10th though...


I watch lots of SEC games and who are the 3-4 ILBs better than T'eo? I can't fugure who they are based on the games I watched.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:13 PM
Well then you wouldn't be getting equal value then. The pass rushers that would be there at 10? Barkevious Mingo, Sam Montgomery, etc., are all having down years. Even your boy Dion Jordan has had a lack luster year. Is that what you really want?

By the way have seen what Luke Kuechly (9th overall pick), has done this year?

Any ILB who can play down hill, go sideline to sideline, and is above average in pass coverage, is a blue chipper who doesn't come around all that often. And that is what T'eo is.

Please, I will take the potential game changer of a Mingo/Jordan over Te'o. You can get a stud ILB in the 2nd easily.

Ever hear of Bowman or Bobby Wagner. Value in the first for ILB is just not there. We had this same argument over Hightower last year. He was not worth the first round pick. He has been a just decent LB'er for them this year.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:15 PM
I watch lots of SEC games and who are the 3-4 ILBs better than T'eo? I can't fugure who they are based on the games I watched.

There have been a few scouts that say CJ Mosley of Alabama for one. Have you seen Kevin Minter? Both of them would be great compliments to Timmons at 3-4 ILB later and will be available in the 2nd round.

DL is stacked this year and we would be fools to waste a 1st round pick on an ILB or a 4-3 LB.

Hell, Alec Ogletree is going to develop into one of the league's nastiest LB'ers in a long time.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 01:23 PM
Stop it. He isn't as good as Kuechly.

Teo is decent but I think there are a good 3 or 4 LB's in the SEC who are better than Teo... I think he is average in pass coverage and should be available in the middle of the 1st round. I wouldn't have a problem picking him 15th... not 10th though...

7 INT's and 11 PD's from the inside linebacker position? Goodness...I'd like to be that "average".

Show me an SEC ILB who is a more complete LB than T'eo. Come on...let's see it. And I am a huge Kevin Minter fan but he isnt even close. Ogletree? No way, he is limited at the point of attack. C.J. Mosely? Negative.

Let's here it felt....please name us the 3 or 4 ILB in the SEC who are better or as complete an ILB as T'eo is.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:26 PM
7 INT's and 11 PD's from the inside linebacker position? Goodness...I'd like to be that "average".

Show me an SEC ILB who is a more complete LB than T'eo. Come on...let's see it. And I am a huge Kevin Minter fan but he isnt even close. Ogletree? No way, he is limited at the point of attack. C.J. Mosely? Negative.

Let's here it felt....please name us the 3 or 4 ILB in the SEC who are better or as complete an ILB as T'eo is.

Right now, probably not one that is equal to Te'o, but that doesn't mean you take him with the 10th pick. Very bad value in a draft that is loaded with stud DL/NT/3-4 OLB.

Have you seen our pass rush? If we are picking around picks 18 to 23, then you pull the trigger on Te'o. NOT with the 10th overall pick.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 01:28 PM
Please, I will take the potential game changer of a Mingo/Jordan over Te'o. You can get a stud ILB in the 2nd easily.

Ever hear of Bowman or Bobby Wagner. Value in the first for ILB is just not there. We had this same argument over Hightower last year. He was not worth the first round pick. He has been a just decent LB'er for them this year.

Yeah and do you know what you would be stuck with? Bruce Irvin. 8 sacks in his rookie year...but only 6 other tackles after that. Sometimes the premium on pass rushers is over-blown. Manti T'eo would have a far greater impact with his 100 plus tackles and ability to drop in coverage. The Steelers dont need a one trick pony. They need leadership and play makers.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 01:29 PM
I watch lots of SEC games and who are the 3-4 ILBs better than T'eo? I can't fugure who they are based on the games I watched.

Exactly. You are 100% right Ovi.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:32 PM
Yeah and do you know what you would be stuck with? Bruce Irvin. 8 sacks in his rookie year...but only 6 other tackles after that. Sometimes the premium on pass rushers is over-blown. Manti T'eo would have a far greater impact with his 100 plus tackles and ability to drop in coverage. The Steelers dont need a one trick pony. They need leadership and play makers.

Bull**** and Pure Speculation about an Irvin type player. We're talking about the 10th overall pick here. I've already said that Te'o would be worth looking at later in the 1st round. Not with the 10th overall pick.

How many extra games has Kuechly helped the panthers win this year? None. Their defense still sucks. They have won the games they have lately because of one person. Newton. He has pulled his head out of his ass.

It was a ****ty pick for the Panthers because they could have had nearly the same production by taking a Bobby Wagner in the 2nd or another ILB. You don't take ILB'ers that early.

It is very rarely is a game changing pick for a team to choose a pure LB that high in the draft.

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 01:33 PM
There have been a few scouts that say CJ Mosley of Alabama for one. Have you seen Kevin Minter? Both of them would be great compliments to Timmons at 3-4 ILB later and will be available in the 2nd round.

DL is stacked this year and we would be fools to waste a 1st round pick on an ILB or a 4-3 LB.

Hell, Alec Ogletree is going to develop into one of the league's nastiest LB'ers in a long time.

I don't think any you mention are as complete a package as T'eo.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 01:33 PM
....Ever hear of Bowman or Bobby Wagner. Value in the first for ILB is just not there. We had this same argument over Hightower last year. He was not worth the first round pick. He has been a just decent LB'er for them this year.

You can not compare the skill sets of Donte Hightower with that of Manti T'eo. Not even close. But in defense of Hightower, he has turned out to be just what I said he would be. A first year starter. At 55 tackles, 3 sacks and 6 tackles for loss isnt too bad.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:36 PM
You can not compare the skill sets of Donte Hightower with that of Manti T'eo. Not even close. But in defense of Hightower, he has turned out to be just what I said he would be. A first year starter. At 55 tackles, 3 sacks and 6 tackles for loss isnt too bad.

Compare that to Bobby Wagner: 76 tackles, 2 sacks. 6.5 tackles for a loss for a 2nd round pick that plays the same ILB position. Thank you for proving my point.

Not everyone is in love with Manti Te'o as a prospect, everyone loves his story.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 01:37 PM
There have been a few scouts that say CJ Mosley of Alabama for one. Have you seen Kevin Minter? Both of them would be great compliments to Timmons at 3-4 ILB later and will be available in the 2nd round.

DL is stacked this year and we would be fools to waste a 1st round pick on an ILB or a 4-3 LB.

Hell, Alec Ogletree is going to develop into one of the league's nastiest LB'ers in a long time.

Well I agree about Kevin Minter. I've been all over him all year but he isnt as complete as T'eo. Not even close. C.J. Mosley is solid but every time I want him I am never "wowed". He never makes that huge splash play or shows any dominance. He does a lot of things good bit nothing great. You can not say that about T'eo.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 01:46 PM
Well I agree about Kevin Minter. I've been all over him all year but he isnt as complete as T'eo. Not even close. C.J. Mosley is solid but every time I want him I am never "wowed". He never makes that huge splash play or shows any dominance. He does a lot of things good bit nothing great. You can not say that about T'eo.

I love Te'o later in the first round. Even around pick 18-20, but not as a top 10 pick. Track record is terrible for LB'ers taken that high. There is nothing about him that screams he is the greatest ILB of all time.

Hell even Patrick Willis after having a tremendous college career, blowing up the combine and Senior Bowls went 13th. Te'o is not Patrick Willis explosive.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 01:59 PM
I love Te'o later in the first round. Even around pick 18-20, but not as a top 10 pick. Track record is terrible for LB'ers taken that high. There is nothing about him that screams he is the greatest ILB of all time.

Hell even Patrick Willis after having a tremendous college career, blowing up the combine and Senior Bowls went 13th. Te'o is not Patrick Willis explosive.

Ok first, your arguments wont ever hold much water if your facts aren't correct. Patrick Willis went 11th overall.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2007

I personally think that T'eo matches up very well with Willis' skill set. T'eo is a better man in coverage and they are both very explosive coming forward versus the run. Both are exceptional laterally as well. And they both are very instinctive, smart football players.

As far as your comments about Luke Kuechly is concerned, how can you say he hasnt made an impact? He is on pace to have over 150 tackles in his rookie year. Currently at 10 TFL's which is pretty special since he plays off the line of scrimmage. It isnt his fault the rest of the team is horrible. If they build around him the Panthers will even see more from Kuechly.

Bobby Wagner is not the norm. He is the exception. What he has done does not happen all that often.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:05 PM
Ok first, your arguments wont ever hold much water if your facts aren't correct. Patrick Willis went 11th overall.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2007

I personally think that T'eo matches up very well with Willis' skill set. T'eo is a better man in coverage and they are both very explosive coming forward versus the run. Both are exceptional laterally as well. And they both are very instinctive, smart football players.

As far as your comments about Luke Kuechly is concerned, how can you say he hasnt made an impact? He is on pace to have over 150 tackles in his rookie year. Currently at 10 TFL's which is pretty special since he plays off the line of scrimmage. It isnt his fault the rest of the team is horrible. If they build around him the Panthers will even see more from Kuechly.

Bobby Wagner is not the norm. He is the exception. What he has done does not happen all that often.

Willis still was not a top 10 pick. He was a much more explosive prospect than Te'o. Te'o is not Willis. He will not run nearly as well and is not nearly as explosive.

Bowman (3rd) is not the norm either right? Neither is Sean Lee? How about all of the other 2nd rd LB'ers that go onto make the pro bowl?

Kuechly has not helped them win more games this year. The Panthers go how Newton goes. He is a good LB'er. Does not make him worth the 9th overall pick.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 02:10 PM
7 INT's and 11 PD's from the inside linebacker position? Goodness...I'd like to be that "average".

Show me an SEC ILB who is a more complete LB than T'eo. Come on...let's see it. And I am a huge Kevin Minter fan but he isnt even close. Ogletree? No way, he is limited at the point of attack. C.J. Mosely? Negative.

Let's here it felt....please name us the 3 or 4 ILB in the SEC who are better or as complete an ILB as T'eo is.

I never said ILB.. I said LB. Jones, Mosley, Minter are all as good as T'eo. Don't let the ND broadcasters fool you...

Like Rob said.. the story of T'eo is great and he plays on THE team when it comes to exposure and feel good stories...

I just think he is a little over rated due to the team he is on. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have him in the 15 to 18 range but at 10? No way...

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 02:13 PM
Willis still was not a top 10 pick. He was a much more explosive prospect than Te'o. Te'o is not Willis. He will not run nearly as well and is not nearly as explosive.

Bowman (3rd) is not the norm either right? Neither is Sean Lee? How about all of the other 2nd rd LB'ers that go onto make the pro bowl?

Kuechly has not helped them win more games this year. The Panthers go how Newton goes. He is a good LB'er. Does not make him worth the 9th overall pick.

no...I disagree. Kuechly is a machine and the D has improved with him moved to the middle. The D made Matt Ryan look like a baby in 2 games until the D crapped the bed when they had them pinned at the 1 yard line after Newton fumbled away the game on 3rd down.

Kuechly has fumble recoveries and forced fumbles and has 15 to 18 tackles in some games. You can't ignore that... and the Carolina offense was disgusting for a good 3 to 4 games. I live in Charlotte. Trust me, Kuechly is a beast.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 02:21 PM
.....Kuechly has not helped them win more games this year. The Panthers go how Newton goes. He is a good LB'er. Does not make him worth the 9th overall pick.

Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of a player by the name of Mean Joe Green? He was the number one overall pick by the Steelers. His first year they went 1-13. He eventually had a huge impact on that team. And what did it take? They built around him.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:33 PM
Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of a player by the name of Mean Joe Green? He was the number one overall pick by the Steelers. His first year they went 1-13. He eventually had a huge impact on that team. And what did it take? They built around him.

Once again, tell me a pure LB'er taken in the top 10 picks that has been an instant game changer recently? Kuechly, he has not been a game changer for them. He is a very good LB'er, but he hasn't changed their fortunes.

A pure LB'er in the top ten is not great value at all. There are much higher impact positions that can change a teams fortune. CB, OT, and/or a pass rusher offers much much better value in the top 10.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 02:40 PM
Once again, tell me a pure LB'er taken in the top 10 picks that has been an instant game changer recently? Kuechly, he has not been a game changer for them. He is a very good LB'er, but he hasn't changed their fortunes.

A pure LB'er in the top ten is not great value at all. There are much higher impact positions that can change a teams fortune. CB, OT, and/or a pass rusher offers much much better value in the top 10.

I don't think there is a position besides QB that can instantly change a teams fortune. The Panthers also have a 2nd year QB and a HC in his second year. They also over paid the RB's and fired the ST's coach and the GM.

Do you really expect a change of fortune with a CB or OT in Carolina? No way....

However, you can look at the defense that was horrible at the beginning of the year and look at the improvements they made since putting Kuechly at his natural position in the middle.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 02:47 PM
Once again, tell me a pure LB'er taken in the top 10 picks that has been an instant game changer recently? Kuechly, he has not been a game changer for them. He is a very good LB'er, but he hasn't changed their fortunes.

A pure LB'er in the top ten is not great value at all. There are much higher impact positions that can change a teams fortune. CB, OT, and/or a pass rusher offers much much better value in the top 10.

That is flawed thinking because as I pointed out Joe Green didn't immediately change the fortunes of the Steeler but he ultimately had one of the greatest impacts on a team in NFL history.

And I personally think the Steelers are maybe one player away on the D-side of the ball from being dominate again. And when you can add that it is worth it.

No CB in this draft would have the impact that T'eo would have on the Steelers. And since they already have 3 OLB (Harrison, Woodley, Worilds), I think that a pass rushers isnt as important right now. And besides as I have already said, picking 10-15 there isnt one this year who I think would have a greater impact than T'eo. Those whoa re going to be there (Mingo, Montgomery, Jordon, etc.), are all having down years. That's a no for me.

What type of impact did Junior Seau have on the Chargers? Brian Urlacher on the Bears? I think T'eo is going to have the same type.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:48 PM
I don't think there is a position besides QB that can instantly change a teams fortune. The Panthers also have a 2nd year QB and a HC in his second year. They also over paid the RB's and fired the ST's coach and the GM.

Do you really expect a change of fortune with a CB or OT in Carolina? No way....

However, you can look at the defense that was horrible at the beginning of the year and look at the improvements they made since putting Kuechly at his natural position in the middle.

Are you telling me a top OT talent wouldn't change the Steelers offensive performance big time? Having another top CB would have certainly helped us to beat the Cowboys.

Have you seen our pass rush this year? The Panthers are winning simply because Newton is back to performing like Superman.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 02:50 PM
That is flawed thinking because as I pointed out Joe Green didn't immediately change the fortunes of the Steeler but he ultimately had one of the greatest impacts on a team in NFL history.

And I personally think the Steelers are maybe one player away on the D-side of the ball from being dominate again. And when you can add that it is worth it.

No CB in this draft would have the impact that T'eo would have on the Steelers. And since they already have 3 OLB (Harrison, Woodley, Worilds), I think that a pass rushers isnt as important right now. And besides as I have already said, picking 10-15 there isnt one this year who I think would have a greater impact than T'eo. Those whoa re going to be there (Mingo, Montgomery, Jordon, etc.), are all having down years. That's a no for me.

What type of impact did Junior Seau have on the Chargers? Brian Urlacher on the Bears? I think T'eo is going to have the same type.

The Steelers pass rush has been atrocious this year. Harrison is going to be cut after this year. You really think we don't need anything behind Worilds/Woodley? I don't care if you think Mingo/Montgomery/Jordan have had down years. They are vastly superior athletes to Te'o that have much higher upside.

You really think the defense is going to be dominant again by adding one player? This defense needs several pieces. NT/DL/MLB/S.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 02:54 PM
I never said ILB.. I said LB. Jones, Mosley, Minter are all as good as T'eo. Don't let the ND broadcasters fool you...

Like Rob said.. the story of T'eo is great and he plays on THE team when it comes to exposure and feel good stories...

I just think he is a little over rated due to the team he is on. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have him in the 15 to 18 range but at 10? No way...

felt, I would think that you would know that me of all people actually watches the college games for himself. It is my passion. As much as I love Kevin Minter he isnt what T'eo is. Neither is Mosely. Jarvis Jones is very special but he is an OLB who probably will be taken in the first 5 picks.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:00 PM
The Steelers pass rush has been atrocious this year. Harrison is going to be cut after this year. You really think we don't need anything behind Worilds/Woodley? I don't care if you think Mingo/Montgomery/Jordan have had down years. They are vastly superior athletes to Te'o that have much higher upside.

You really think the defense is going to be dominant again by adding one player? This defense needs several pieces. NT/DL/MLB/S.

Yes I agree we do need another OLB but not picking at number 10-15. Second, third, or 4th round is more appropriate for team that will have two returning starters there next year. And yes, a player the caliber of T'eo could make this team dominate again. For one, I think Timmons will then be used a lot differently. Used more to his skill set and be turned loose more often.

I am saying this with the thought that players return to health (Polamalu and Woodley for instance), next year. And I believe once Heyward is given the starting spot he will become one of the better 3-4 DE.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 03:05 PM
Yes I agree we do need another OLB but not picking at number 10-15. Second, third, or 4th round is more appropriate for team that will have two returning starters there next year. And yes, a player the caliber of T'eo could make this team dominate again. For one, I think Timmons will then be used a lot differently. Used more to his skill set and be turned loose more often.

I am saying this with the thought that players return to health (Polamalu and Woodley for instance), next year. And I believe once Heyward is given the starting spot he will become one of the better 3-4 DE.

Well, We'll have to agree to disagree. Nice debate though.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:19 PM
Well, We'll have to agree to disagree. Nice debate though.

What I would like for you to do Rob is tell me who the Steelers should draft if they are picking at the 10 spot.

Here are the players who will probably be available at or near that pick....

Manti T'eo
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Dee Milliner CB
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
John Jenkins DT/NT

BigRob
12-18-2012, 03:23 PM
What I would like for you to do Rob is tell me who the Steelers should draft if they are picking at the 10 spot.

Here are the players who will probably be available at or near that pick....

Manti T'eo
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Dee Milliner CB
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
John Jenkins DT/NT

I would take Jordan and/or Mingo over Te'o based on upside alone. Jake Mathews would be my 3rd choice. This team still needs O-line/D-line/Pass Rush more than LB help.

My absolute preference would be to trade back and pick up additional picks. Thats what we need more than anything in a deep draft like this.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:24 PM
Oh and I was incorrect. Steelers are currently drafting at pick number 17. If any of these teams win one of their last 2 games we move up (good chance on some of these teams doing that if not all) . If all do so and Steelers lose both of their last two games they pick at 11.

St. Louis
New Orleans
New York Jets
Miami
Tampa

If any of these teams win both of their last two games we move up (not likely).

San Diego
Buffalo
Cleveland
Tennessee
Carolina
Arizona

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:33 PM
I would take Jordan and/or Mingo over Te'o based on upside alone. Jake Mathews would be my 3rd choice. This team still needs O-line/D-line/Pass Rush more than LB help.

My absolute preference would be to trade back and pick up additional picks. Thats what we need more than anything in a deep draft like this.

So you would take Jordan and Mingo and their not so great 2012 college seasons? Wow. Mingo really hasnt done much this year. 33 tackles with only 4 sacks and 5.5 TFL. I would think you would want more from that high of a pick. Jordan has been better but he had a down year compared to 2011. If I were to do this based on up-side I'd rather they use that pick on Anthony Barr of UCLA. Monster year and only the first year he has ever played defense. But none of these guys gives you the value or the insurance as T'eo does.

As for OT you would be wasting that pick. Steelers have 3 OT's in the mix for next year (Starks, Gilbert, and Adams). Why add another?

BigRob
12-18-2012, 03:37 PM
So you would take Jordan and Mingo and their not so great 2012 college seasons? Wow. Mingo really hasnt done much this year. 33 tackles with only 4 sacks and 5.5 TFL. I would think you would want more from that high of a pick. Jordan has been better but he had a down year compared to 2011. If I were to do this based on up-side I'd rather they use that pick on Anthony Barr of UCLA. Monster year and only the first year he has ever played defense. But none of these guys gives you the value or the insurance as T'eo does.

As for OT you would be wasting that pick. Steelers have 3 OT's in the mix for next year (Starks, Gilbert, and Adams). Why add another?

Neither Starks, Gilbert, or Adams will be as good as Mathews. We still need more talent on the O-line.

Mingo/Jordan are highly explosive players. Jordan is on the rise. Both of them have the great potential to be Jean Pierre-Paul type players. I would take that potential over Te'o at 10 or 11 any day.

ILB'ers can be found in the second round all day long and can come in and start. Players like Mingo and Jordan aren't found in the 2nd round.

feltdizz
12-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Are you telling me a top OT talent wouldn't change the Steelers offensive performance big time? Having another top CB would have certainly helped us to beat the Cowboys.

Have you seen our pass rush this year? The Panthers are winning simply because Newton is back to performing like Superman.

Those guys would help just like Kuechly helps the Panthers get off the field more often so Newton can be superman. The guy had 16 tackles in the win over ATL. The Panthers aren't winning in shootouts... they went from 28th last year up to 10th this year in total D.

That's called improvement... you can't blame Kuechly because Newton is finally playing like superman again.

Not sure how you dismiss change on the Panthers based on wins and losses while ignoring improvements in defensive stats.

Sugar
12-18-2012, 03:48 PM
What I would like for you to do Rob is tell me who the Steelers should draft if they are picking at the 10 spot.

Here are the players who will probably be available at or near that pick....

Manti T'eo
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Dee Milliner CB
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
John Jenkins DT/NT

Barkley!! We need to have Ben's replacement ready... ;)

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Neither Starks, Gilbert, or Adams will be as good as Mathews. We still need more talent on the O-line.

Mingo/Jordan are highly explosive players. Jordan is on the rise. Both of them have the great potential to be Jean Pierre-Paul type players. I would take that potential over Te'o at 10 or 11 any day.

ILB'ers can be found in the second round all day long and can come in and start. Players like Mingo and Jordan aren't found in the 2nd round.

So because Matthews is better we over-load at OT? Doesnt make sense. It isnt a priority position right now.

And you are forgetting one very big piece of information on Mingo and Jordan. They are 4-3 DE. They would have to make the switch to OLB in a 3-4. That is going to take awhile if they ever actually can make the transition. BIG IF. T'eo comes in and starts day one. At pick number 10-15 you need an immediate return.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Those guys would help just like Kuechly helps the Panthers get off the field more often so Newton can be superman. The guy had 16 tackles in the win over ATL. The Panthers aren't winning in shootouts... they went from 28th last year up to 10th this year in total D.

That's called improvement... you can't blame Kuechly because Newton is finally playing like superman again.

Not sure how you dismiss change on the Panthers based on wins and losses while ignoring improvements in defensive stats.

Because they go as Newton goes. When Newton plays well, they win. Kuechly has played well lots of games this year and it has resulted in losses. ILB is not a premium position. There is a reason the vast majority of them go in the 2nd/3rd round even if they are great players. See Bowman, Wagner, Lee.

Ask any GM/Scout. ILB is not a premium position in the NFL anymore. A few go really high recently and it has not worked out very well. See Curry, Hawk, Rivers, and I would even argue O.J. Mayo.

I am not bashing Kuechly. However, you can get pretty damn comparable production out of a 2nd round pick at the same position.

You use top 10 picks on premium positions QB, LT, CB, and pass rushers.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 03:56 PM
Because they go as Newton goes. When Newton plays well, they win. Kuechly has played well lots of games this year and it has resulted in losses. ILB is not a premium position. There is a reason the vast majority of them go in the 2nd/3rd round even if they are great players. See Bowman, Wagner, Lee.

Ask any GM/Scout. ILB is not a premium position in the NFL anymore. A few go really high recently and it has not worked out very well. See Curry, Hawk, Rivers, and I would even argue O.J. Mayo.

I am not bashing Kuechly. However, you can get pretty damn comparable production out of a 2nd round pick at the same position.

You use top 10 picks on premium positions QB, LT, CB, and pass rushers.

Pssssssssssssssst....the only 3-4 OLB in this conversation will be selected in the first 5 picks. Now what?? Take a player who you have to convert to another position and hope he gets it?

And O.J. Mayo plays basketball.

A.J. Hawk has been a lot better than you think. He has more tackles than anyone on the Steelers this year.

BigRob
12-18-2012, 04:08 PM
Pssssssssssssssst....the only 3-4 OLB in this conversation will be selected in the first 5 picks. Now what?? Take a player who you have to convert to another position and hope he gets it?

And O.J. Mayo plays basketball.

A.J. Hawk has been a lot better than you think. He has more tackles than anyone on the Steelers this year.

Sorry Jerod Mayo. Sorry A.J. Hawk was not worth the top ten pick they spent on him. Their defense has been pretty terrible overall. Most Packer fans will tell you they know he has underperformed his draft slot.

Hate to tell you that Jordan played in a hybrid defense at Oregon and is also known for his play in coverage as well. Mingo is very explosive and athletic and will convert very well.

Let's see what Te'o does against a veritable pro running game in Alabama before we crown his azz.

Slapstick
12-18-2012, 04:13 PM
Sorry A.J. Hawk was not worth the top ten pick they spent on him. Their defense has been pretty terrible overall. Most Packer fans will tell you they know he has underperformed his draft slot.


People on this board say Timmons has underperformed his draft slot...that doesn't make it true...

BigRob
12-18-2012, 04:18 PM
People on this board say Timmons has underperformed his draft slot...that doesn't make it true...

I am a Timmons supporter, but he was drafted as a 3-4 OLB. He failed at that one miserably and is an above average 3-4 ILB.

That doesn't mean he has performed to his draft slot.

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 04:28 PM
So because Matthews is better we over-load at OT? Doesnt make sense. It isnt a priority position right now.

And you are forgetting one very big piece of information on Mingo and Jordan. They are 4-3 DE. They would have to make the switch to OLB in a 3-4. That is going to take awhile if they ever actually can make the transition. BIG IF. T'eo comes in and starts day one. At pick number 10-15 you need an immediate return.


Not sure we can really say we are "overloaded at OT" given that we have a Guard (Beachum) starting there now at RT. The jury is way out on whether either Gilbert or Adams can replace Starks at LT. If Matthews is evaluated as better than Gilbert or Adams at LT then I would not hesitate to take him. I also would not rule out taking Chance Warmack in the 10-15 range. Decastro-Pouncey-Warmack would give us an awesome interior OL for almost the next decade.

I would not waste a high pick on a DE that we have to spend two years "converting" to OLB. Now if we decide to go to the 4-3 then that is a different story as far as taking a DE.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-18-2012, 04:39 PM
I am against drafting another interior OL in the 1st round. You don't need high draft picks and probowlers at every spot on the OL. This team has much bigger needs. They have bodies, coach them up and get some return on the investment.

I think teo would be gone before the steelers draft. Lose this week, and my mind changes.

Oviedo
12-18-2012, 04:59 PM
I am against drafting another interior OL in the 1st round. You don't need high draft picks and probowlers at every spot on the OL. This team has much bigger needs. They have bodies, coach them up and get some return on the investment.

I think teo would be gone before the steelers draft. Lose this week, and my mind changes.

I agree about T'eo. I think we are likely drafting 15-18 because we will split the next two games and he will likely be gone in the top 12. Lose the next two and we have a real chance at him.

NJ-STEELER
12-18-2012, 06:49 PM
7 INT's and 11 PD's from the inside linebacker position?.


while that an awesome stat (more then the steelers whole secondary)

how many has he had before this year?

is it an abberation or is it actually a skill he is tremendous at?

NJ-STEELER
12-18-2012, 07:00 PM
because next year keisel, hampton, harrison, clark, troy, foote are all another year older

THEY ARE OLD BUT STILL PERFORMING PRETTY WELL (KEISEL, FOOT, CLARK, DEBO)


aND WHAT ABOUT THE HIGH DRAFT PICKS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT ARE ON THE BENCH THAT WERE TAKEN TO REPLACE THEM (WORLDIS, HEYWARD)

what about spence (who they liked). young Dbs like allen and lewis who have shown promise.



where is this potential on the bench with the offense? we're likely to let one of our biggest weapons leave as a free agent. on a team who's offense ranks in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

besides AB (if he's not fumbling the ball away) who is going to a play maker for this offense? dwyer/redman are average backs and mendy is likely gone too


sorry for the caps BTW, didnt notice it till posted.

Dee Dub
12-18-2012, 08:10 PM
while that an awesome stat (more then the steelers whole secondary)

how many has he had before this year?

is it an abberation or is it actually a skill he is tremendous at?

Actually none. Last year he was used differently. A lot more coming forward than dropping back. As a result his tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks were better. That is one of the great things about him. He is versatile. As a inside LB he can do it all. But he has improved a lot in coverage.

RuthlessBurgher
12-18-2012, 09:23 PM
While Farrior could no longer keep up physically anymore, his leadership kept this team together. Who is the leader on defense now? Clark? Keisel? Foote? They are all getting up there in age. I like having the leader of the defense right in the middle of everything like Potsie was. I like what Timmons brings to the table, but he is certainly not a natural leader (but then again, neither are Troy or Harrison for that matter). Te'o is a born leader of men, who also happens to be tremendously talented as well. The importance of on-field leadership in creating a cohensive unit cannot be overstated. Te'o provides that. You can give him the helmet with the green dot on the back for the next decade. That said, I hope we win our next 6 games and pick at 32 instead.

SS Laser
12-18-2012, 10:16 PM
I will play Dee. My order for the steelers. If he is there pick #1 then move down the list.
#1 Manti T'eo- Just think he and timmons can be willis an bowman good or better.
#2 John Jenkins DT/NT- Can move around the d-line I think if needed. He and Ta'amu can be Hamp & Hoke 2.0? Goal line would be jenkins,ta'amu and mclendon inside? Sounds good to me.:)
#3 Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)- Seems to be a freak from what I read. Can he be a 3-4 OLB? I don't know.:D
#4 Chance Warmack OG- Holy Crap the OL would be good!
#5 Dee Milliner CB- Why not always need CB's.

Ok I am done playing now. The rest I don't know enough about yet. Also I am picking position more so then pure player. Positions I think the Steelers need help.

Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB

hawaiiansteel
12-19-2012, 12:06 AM
I will play Dee. My order for the steelers. If he is there pick #1 then move down the list.
#1 Manti T'eo- Just think he and timmons can be willis an bowman good or better.
#2 John Jenkins DT/NT- Can move around the d-line I think if needed. He and Ta'amu can be Hamp & Hoke 2.0? Goal line would be jenkins,ta'amu and mclendon inside? Sounds good to me.:)
#3 Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)- Seems to be a freak from what I read. Can he be a 3-4 OLB? I don't know.:D
#4 Chance Warmack OG- Holy Crap the OL would be good!
#5 Dee Milliner CB- Why not always need CB's.

Ok I am done playing now. The rest I don't know enough about yet. Also I am picking position more so then pure player. Positions I think the Steelers need help.

Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB


NT Johnathan Jenkins from Georgia is a load and has had a very good season so far that has raised his stock. if the Steelers want Jenkins as a successor to Big Snack they will have to select him in the first round, he most likely does not make it out of Round 1.

SS Laser
12-19-2012, 12:31 AM
NT Johnathan Jenkins from Georgia is a load and has had a very good season so far that has raised his stock. if the Steelers want Jenkins as a successor to Big Snack they will have to select him in the first round, he most likely does not make it out of Round 1.

Just to point out those are my "grades" or wish list for the 1st round pick. If T'eo is gone at our pick. My 2nd choice is Jenkins at this point. I tend to agree with you HS that a massive force inside will help everyone else. I figure the board draft guru's will let us knew if he is good as Hamp was coming out or better. Also if Hamp would come come back healthy, in shape at vet min would you guys want him for a back up (mentor) for a Jenkins and Ta'amu? Also what about Johnathan Hankins in the first?

hawaiiansteel
12-19-2012, 12:41 AM
Also if Hamp would come come back healthy, in shape at vet min would you guys want him for a back up (mentor) for a Jenkins and Ta'amu?

a lot really depends on how the Steelers truly feel about Steve McLendon, I had high hopes for him this season but he has hardly gotten any playing time.

but if Big Snack were indeed healthy and willing to play for the vet minimum I would think we would bring him back for another season to help mentor all of the young NTs we would have.

feltdizz
12-19-2012, 10:56 AM
while that an awesome stat (more then the steelers whole secondary)

how many has he had before this year?

is it an abberation or is it actually a skill he is tremendous at?

It's the front 4. Anyone who is familiar with ND's defense from a year ago knows they were awful and undersized. They did a complete 180 in the trenches.

Not trying to discredit T'eo but he plays on a very good D who keeps him clean... PITT wasn't that good this year but Graham is an NFL talent and T'eo couldn't do anything with him.

PITT should have won that game.... horrible, and I mean HORRIBLE pass int call and a missed chip shot by the kicker is the reason they survived that game.

feltdizz
12-19-2012, 10:59 AM
a lot really depends on how the Steelers truly feel about Steve McLendon, I had high hopes for him this season but he has hardly gotten any playing time.

but if Big Snack were indeed healthy and willing to play for the vet minimum I would think we would bring him back for another season to help mentor all of the young NTs we would have.

I'm at a loss why McClendon isn't getting more time. Every time he gets in he makes something happen or gets good penetration. Then he gets sent to the bench.. makes me wonder if getting in the backfield isn't his assignment.

Oviedo
12-19-2012, 11:59 AM
It's the front 4. Anyone who is familiar with ND's defense from a year ago knows they were awful and undersized. They did a complete 180 in the trenches.

Not trying to discredit T'eo but he plays on a very good D who keeps him clean... PITT wasn't that good this year but Graham is an NFL talent and T'eo couldn't do anything with him.

PITT should have won that game.... horrible, and I mean HORRIBLE pass int call and a missed chip shot by the kicker is the reason they survived that game.


The Notre Dame NT Louis Nix gets lots of credit for that. He is a beast. Too bad he has already said he will be back at ND in '13.

Oviedo
12-19-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm at a loss why McClendon isn't getting more time. Every time he gets in he makes something happen or gets good penetration. Then he gets sent to the bench.. makes me wonder if getting in the backfield isn't his assignment.


That is the $50,000 question. Everyone sees what you see. I really hope it isn't a "knowing the defense and LeBeau is more comfortable with Hampton." However this is the same type of staying with the guy who knows the system stuff we keep seeing from LeBeau.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-19-2012, 12:26 PM
I'm beginning to think that Casey has some pictures of LeBeau or Tomlin doing porn or something...

BigRob
12-19-2012, 03:58 PM
Players I would take in the 2nd instead of Te'o in the first at pick 10 or 11:

Arthur Brown, ILB K-State
Kevin Minter, ILB LSU
Kyle Van Noy, LB BYU
CJ Mosley, ILB Alabama

Dee Dub
12-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Players I would take in the 2nd instead of Te'o in the first at pick 10 or 11:

Arthur Brown, ILB K-State
Kevin Minter, ILB LSU
Kyle Van Noy, LB BYU
CJ Mosley, ILB Alabama

Not me. I'd take T'eo in a heartbeat. He is a rare breed of ILB. One that can excel at all aspects of the position.

If T'eo wasn't available in round one I would love Kevin Minter in round two.

Arthur Brown is better suited to play in a 4-3.

lloydroid
12-19-2012, 05:14 PM
That is the $50,000 question. Everyone sees what you see. I really hope it isn't a "knowing the defense and LeBeau is more comfortable with Hampton." However this is the same type of staying with the guy who knows the system stuff we keep seeing from LeBeau.

This is the problem with older people in major positions: They tend to do what they are comfortable with, even if it's obvious to others that a new person or policy is the way to go. Dan Rooney had this same problem: always wanted to stay with status quo even when it became obvious that a change was needed. I fear Dick is in this same mode; if you look at how long he takes to add new players to the mix, it becomes obvious.

hawaiiansteel
12-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Not me. I'd take T'eo in a heartbeat.

me too, Te'o is a beast...

BigRob
12-19-2012, 05:46 PM
Not me. I'd take T'eo in a heartbeat. He is a rare breed of ILB. One that can excel at all aspects of the position.

If T'eo wasn't available in round one I would love Kevin Minter in round two.

Arthur Brown is better suited to play in a 4-3.

ILB isn't the money position anymore. In fact, most teams are only leaving one linebacker on the field due to spread passing offenses.

A Third or 4th cornerback is becoming much more valuable. Timmons is already our best coverage LB. A pass rusher, corner, or LT is a much bigger need and value in the 1st.

Don't sell yourself short of Arthur Brown. He can play in any system.

A 2nd Rd ILB or Safety is the ticket. :Beer

BigRob
12-19-2012, 05:47 PM
me too, Te'o is a beast...

In the 15 to 20 range yes, at 10 or 11 no.

hawaiiansteel
12-19-2012, 06:44 PM
In the 15 to 20 range yes, at 10 or 11 no.

unless we turn things around quickly and go on a heckuva run, the 15-20 range is where we most likely will be picking.

Dee Dub
12-19-2012, 07:41 PM
unless we turn things around quickly and go on a heckuva run, the 15-20 range is where we most likely will be picking.

If this team doesnt turn it around there's a good chance 5 teams will slide behind them. And then the Steelers draft at number 11. If the Steelers drop the next two games, St. Louis, New Orleans, New York Jets, Miami, and Tampa all need to only win 1 out of 2.

NJ-STEELER
12-20-2012, 06:28 PM
It's the front 4. Anyone who is familiar with ND's defense from a year ago knows they were awful and undersized. They did a complete 180 in the trenches.

Not trying to discredit T'eo but he plays on a very good D who keeps him clean... PITT wasn't that good this year but Graham is an NFL talent and T'eo couldn't do anything with him.

PITT should have won that game.... horrible, and I mean HORRIBLE pass int call and a missed chip shot by the kicker is the reason they survived that game.

watched that game. one of the worst calls ive seen