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View Full Version : Why Does Steelers Offense Stink?



flippy
12-14-2012, 09:15 AM
I guess you could say we've improved under Haley. We've gone from scoring 20 points/game and ranking 22nd under BA to scoring 21 points/game and ranking 21st under Haley.

2/3 of the league has better offensive performance. Including perennial offensive juggernauts Buffalo, Minnesota, Chicago. Teams with rookie QBs are scoring more points than we are - Washington, Seattle, Indy.

What is wrong? We can't pass block. We can't run block. We can't hold on to the ball. We don't get help and easy field position from our ST or D via turnovers.

Why is this and why can't Haley fix it? It's starting to look like BA really did just get a bad rap and was the scapegoat in Pittsburgh.

Oviedo
12-14-2012, 09:24 AM
Injuries to the OL and the starting QB missing three games. That pretty well sums it up. We all thought we turned the corner on the OL when in relaity it appears we peeked around the corner and haven't made that turn yet. I'll continue to say what I have said for the past three years, until we really fix the OL you can't fairly evaluate any offensive performance.

Yes...BA was never as bad as his haters want to portray him as. His offense had potential but he didn't have an OL that could execute it. His biggest fault was not realizing that and adjusting with more quick throws to TEs and RBs to help keep Ben upright.

Big article in today's USA Today about what a great job Arians is doing.

msp26505
12-14-2012, 09:26 AM
This year it is injuries..particularly to Ben. The O was starting to click right before Ben got injured and then we had a four-game period (so far) where they have looked like garbage since. Hopefully, they start to round back into shape this week.

But the "Steeler way" is to emphasize defense and not try to score 50 points a game on offense. Though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it sometimes, I can't imagine the Steelers trying to score the way NE does.

I bet if all facets of the Steelers were clicking (O, D, and ST), this organization would be completely comfortable with an offensive ranking in the 10-15 range.

Oviedo
12-14-2012, 09:32 AM
But the "Steeler way" is to emphasize defense and not try to score 50 points a game on offense. Though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it sometimes, I can't imagine the Steelers trying to score the way NE does.


The "Steelers way" is not in touch with the current NFL. We are the #1 ranked defense and have 6 losses. Big whoop for the rankings. The reality is this defense may have a meaningless ranking but they are not an "impact" defense--can't sack the QB and can't get INTs.

I wish the Steelers would try to score how NE does because then we probably wouldn't be losing to teams with losing records.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-14-2012, 09:40 AM
The attitude problems don't help either. You have a Mike Wallace who says he "loses concentration" because he isn't getting the ball thrown his way all the time... you have a Rashard Mendenhall who decides that just because he isn't going to dress for a game, he won't show up for the game... and probably a lot more problems with those two than we know about... those kind of things can negatively affect the rest of the offense. Might be a case of addition by subtraction this offseason.

DBR96A
12-14-2012, 10:35 AM
In the nine-and-a-half games the Steelers have played with Ben Roethlisberger at QB, they've averaged 23.7 points per game, and they've committed no more than two turnovers in any game that he's played. In fact, they've averaged 1.1 turnovers per game with him, which would amount to 18 turnovers over 16 games.

feltdizz
12-14-2012, 10:46 AM
This year it is injuries..particularly to Ben. The O was starting to click right before Ben got injured and then we had a four-game period (so far) where they have looked like garbage since. Hopefully, they start to round back into shape this week.

But the "Steeler way" is to emphasize defense and not try to score 50 points a game on offense. Though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it sometimes, I can't imagine the Steelers trying to score the way NE does.

I bet if all facets of the Steelers were clicking (O, D, and ST), this organization would be completely comfortable with an offensive ranking in the 10-15 range.

BA's offense had injuries... we didn't have Ben for 4 games last year and well, every year Ben gets hurt so it's not a good excuse IMO.

I agree we are content with being 15th on offense but I swear... when I go to a sports bar to watch the Steelers our offense looks awful compared to the other games that are on TV. It's probably THE worst offense in football when you look at the talent we have at skill positions.

The only thing keeping us afloat is our D and our gritty play by the QB.... but it ain't pretty or fun to watch most games... the only good thing about our team is our ability to make every game into a nail biter and TV stations love us for it.

Slapstick
12-14-2012, 12:29 PM
Ben played in 15 games last year...

It was 2010 when he missed the four games from suspension...

feltdizz
12-14-2012, 12:44 PM
Ben played in 15 games last year...

It was 2010 when he missed the four games from suspension...

thanks... but they stunk last year too.

Keyplay1
12-14-2012, 12:56 PM
This would be in response to the Offense is not getting any help from Turnovers.

Dulac: Todays PG

The Steelers swiped nine passes in the 11-game 1940 season that stands as their low-water mark, according to research by Steelers Digest. Unless they come up with two more over the next three games -- a big order for them the past two seasons -- they will go down in history as the worst team in the 80 years of the franchise at picking off passes.

nfl.com interception stats



20

Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT)

13
20.3
264
896
620
276
27.0
0
76
11

1
105
43T

18
14

2




Dulac same article:

They're not doing much better recovering fumbles. They have five, one on a muffed punt, giving them just 12 forced turnovers. They've lost three games by three points and another by six, and the reason could be they also have lost their once innate ability to turn the ball over to their offense.

The jumbled mess, which is what that nfl.com usually is disagrees with Dulac.
On that line I opened the 11 is supposedly the 2012 Int number for TS. The 18 is the Forced Fumbles and the 14 is the recovered fumbles. Some large disagreement there. And no, I am not going to go through all the Official nfl gamebooks to see WTF is going on here. But frankly, I do think Dulac watches TS games and is probably correct. I keep saying that Goodell has hired too many of his nitwit relatives because so much of that site is screwed up. But no one ever seems to agree. I mean like its is already week 13 of the season and when you go to the stat site the opening page is still 2011. You then have to change that to 2012 change it to regular season stats then change the page to 2012 regular season, then change it to the stat you are interested in then etc etc. Give me a break. What nitwit set that up?

nfl.com again: this is the Total Defense stat line for TS.



32
Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT)

13
20.3
264
762
262.4
4.5
16.6
62
170
36
7
8
88
76
687
27:18

14


5




the last # is 5 that is under Lost the 14 is under forced fumbles. I think I see what happened in the other stats. the 18 is the end of the TOP stat. Are they not real -------/Now again the line from the INT page.

Never mind. The 1st one is what was on the 2012 page. BUT: On a hunch I took a look at TS Offensive Pass Stats. You guessed it. TS have thrown 11 INTs. Hmm!. Am I now supposed to believe that TS have intercepted Big Ben Eleven times.:smile:

SidSmythe
12-14-2012, 12:57 PM
Ben's Injury, O-Line injuries and Antonio Brown's injury is a good place to start. Throw in all the missed opportunities from Mike Wallace and not having a #1 RB w/ endurance doesn't help.

Keyplay1
12-14-2012, 01:13 PM
The attitude problems don't help either. You have a Mike Wallace who says he "loses concentration" because he isn't getting the ball thrown his way all the time... you have a Rashard Mendenhall who decides that just because he isn't going to dress for a game, he won't show up for the game... and probably a lot more problems with those two than we know about... those kind of things can negatively affect the rest of the offense. Might be a case of addition by subtraction this offseason.

Yeah, this is another real good one. He sure picked a bad time to bring this up. But what is really puzzling about this is it may not be true.

I am not sure of this except that I did hear it on a radio talk show and it was not a caller it was the host. He said that actually Wallace has been targeted more times this year than in 2011. He also said something about his production was not really down that much.

But the reason the fans are so down on Wallace is, while his overall production may in fact not be that much down from 2011, it seems that many of his misses came at critical times in games. A few of them definitely came early in games and seemed to destroy offensive continuity and certainly changed momentum. That could just have been a coincidence I suppose, but still?

Anyone know if that is true that he is really not being overlooked as a target at all. Is that only in his head too?

flippy
12-14-2012, 01:24 PM
Anyone know if that is true that he is really not being overlooked as a target at all. Is that only in his head too?

Wally's being targeted more:

2012 - 104 targets in 13 games

2011 - 114 targets in 16 games

So he's getting a about 1 more target per game. But his average per catch, his YAC, his 1st downs, are all going south. And his hands are getting worse.

He's got 8 TDs this year - same as last year.

But his attitude is a cancer. That's the biggest problem. He's been in a slump/funk for a year and a half now.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-14-2012, 01:54 PM
The "Steelers way" is not in touch with the current NFL. We are the #1 ranked defense and have 6 losses. Big whoop for the rankings. The reality is this defense may have a meaningless ranking but they are not an "impact" defense--can't sack the QB and can't get INTs.

I wish the Steelers would try to score how NE does because then we probably wouldn't be losing to teams with losing records.

This. As soon as we get up by 10 we shut down the offense until the other team scores. We rarely put up over 30 points and I can't think of the last time we put up 40. For the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers we play not to lose on both sides of the ball. That's why after being burnt for a TD on one long pass play last week against the Chargers you saw our CB's giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 2 allowing Rivers to easily complete short passes. Reminded me of Lebeau being terrified of Tom Brady's long ball so he had Willie Williams giving a 10 yard cushion all AFCCG long in 2004 only to have Brady complete about a dozen short passes right in front of Williams.

The Steelers are a very conservative team and it hurts them.

Keyplay1
12-14-2012, 01:59 PM
Wally's being targeted more:

2012 - 104 targets in 13 games

2011 - 114 targets in 16 games

So he's getting a about 1 more target per game. But his average per catch, his YAC, his 1st downs, are all going south. And his hands are getting worse.

He's got 8 TDs this year - same as last year.

But his attitude is a cancer. That's the biggest problem. He's been in a slump/funk for a year and a half now.

Then I was not hearing things. You are so right about the attitude thing.

Not to get off the subject, but since this thread is going to get a lot of action I have a couple questions.

1. How do you get a section of a post with who said it. For example:

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Keyplay1 http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=538006#post538006)


Anyone know if that is true that he is really not being overlooked as a target at all. Is that only in his head too?

2. Anybody familiar with Clete Blakeman? He is going to ref the game Sunday. He is not on my Steeler killer list so maybe for a change we get a half decent road game from the zebras. It is getting tiresome getting ripped off on the road this year.

flippy
12-14-2012, 02:14 PM
This. As soon as we get up by 10 we shut down the offense until the other team scores. We rarely put up over 30 points and I can't think of the last time we put up 40. For the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers we play not to lose on both sides of the ball. That's why after being burnt for a TD on one long pass play last week against the Chargers you saw our CB's giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 2 allowing Rivers to easily complete short passes. Reminded me of Lebeau being terrified of Tom Brady's long ball so he had Willie Williams giving a 10 yard cushion all AFCCG long in 2004 only to have Brady complete about a dozen short passes right in front of Williams.

The Steelers are a very conservative team and it hurts them.

I think we give a cushion when there's no help for a corner over the top. And we press when there's safety help for the corner. The bottom line is Lebeau is trying to mix it up and have more guys to pressure the QB and he'll give a cushion.

How'd you like when Brown played Alexander tight on his first TD? Everyone else gave a cushion on that play because there was no help over the top. And they went after the guy pressing Alexander. And Brown got beat bad.

DBR96A
12-14-2012, 02:54 PM
This. As soon as we get up by 10 we shut down the offense until the other team scores. We rarely put up over 30 points and I can't think of the last time we put up 40.
They scored 41 against the Browns to end the 2010 season.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-14-2012, 03:04 PM
I think we give a cushion when there's no help for a corner over the top. And we press when there's safety help for the corner. The bottom line is Lebeau is trying to mix it up and have more guys to pressure the QB and he'll give a cushion.

How'd you like when Brown played Alexander tight on his first TD? Everyone else gave a cushion on that play because there was no help over the top. And they went after the guy pressing Alexander. And Brown got beat bad.

Pretty sure this discussion could automatically go over into the 'Our defense plays worse when Troy is in there' cause when Allen was in there he played safety, not as a 5th linebacker, 100% of the time meaning we had safety help over the top 100% of the time. Why is our safety at the LOS half the time he is in there? Because we have no pass rush...Why do we have no pass rush?

lloydroid
12-14-2012, 06:22 PM
This. As soon as we get up by 10 we shut down the offense until the other team scores. We rarely put up over 30 points and I can't think of the last time we put up 40. For the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers we play not to lose on both sides of the ball. That's why after being burnt for a TD on one long pass play last week against the Chargers you saw our CB's giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 2 allowing Rivers to easily complete short passes. Reminded me of Lebeau being terrified of Tom Brady's long ball so he had Willie Williams giving a 10 yard cushion all AFCCG long in 2004 only to have Brady complete about a dozen short passes right in front of Williams.

The Steelers are a very conservative team and it hurts them.

You are right: they play "not to lose" even though Cowher is gone. That attitude must be inherent from the Rooneys themselves, or why do different coaches seemingly coach the same way? I love how Brady, Belichick and the Pats just jack up teams and go aggressive and tear them a new butt hole. That is the way to roll, not this wussy, "I am scared to be burned" mindset. New England is also aggressive with weeding out bad attitudes; they don't play pitty pat once a player has a non-team attitude - they cut them out like cancer. Not this team; they wait until the season is ruined before they make any moves to stamp out players with bad attitudes. Wallace should have been dealt with many weeks ago.

hawaiiansteel
12-14-2012, 07:01 PM
Roethlisberger, like many quarterbacks coming off an extended injury layoff, wasn‘t spectacular in his return. He went 22 of 42 for 285 yards and three TDs on Sunday, but he missed quite a few throws. He expects to be much better in Dallas. “I think I did come out a little anxious, a little rusty, but we just couldn‘t put it together,” Roethlisberger said. “It wasn‘t like we had any two positions doing the right thing. It was one of those funky things, and I think we‘ve got it corrected.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3118297-85/wallace-roethlisberger-steelers#ixzz2F4AqDceN

Mister Pittsburgh
12-14-2012, 08:10 PM
I think the Rooney's make sure that the 'emblem' is the star, not any one player, and that is why they have never fully handed the offense over to Ben like most teams do with a true franchise QB. They really didn't have a true 'brand' until the 70's and once the right players were finally drafted in the 70's and won championships and the city went crazy for those teams and their style of play, that was the brand they chose.

That emblem stands for old school smash mouth football that is led by a vicious defense and a bash your face in running game. They even keep the old sandlot feel by keeping the natural grass mud hole that freezes into the look of an old cow pasture come January. They don't want some high fallutin' finesse offense that throws the ball 45 times a game. They want a run first offense where their offensive line punches the other team in the mouth and they impose their will on the opposition.

Problem is, they don't have players that fit that mold. They have a franchise QB, 3 fast, small WR's whose games are based off of their speed and shiftiness. They have some crappy oft injured linemen that rarely impose their will on anyone. They have two 'ok' power backs but don't have that extra oomph that Franco or Bettis had to plow dudes over or make their own holes. They have one RB that has talent but isn't built as a strictly between the tackles RB like they want in Mendy so he is oft injured and doesn't have the mental approach to be a power back. they drafted Rainey which is a wasted pick considering they have no running plays off tackle. They don't have that Dan Kreider FB anymore that will fly through a hole with wreck less abandon and smash LB's. the only truly hardcore throwback players they do have on offense are Ben and Heath.

The old school style they want doesn't fit the talent on the team, or today's NFL. Let's face it, we won the recent Superbowls off the backs of our defense and those hardcore throwback types like Smith, Casey, Troy, Harrison, Farrier, are past their prime or already retired. We now have their ghosts on the field surrounded by too few impact players or players that have talent but are oft injured.

Just my take. Some may not agree.

RuthlessBurgher
12-14-2012, 09:29 PM
You are right: they play "not to lose" even though Cowher is gone. That attitude must be inherent from the Rooneys themselves, or why do different coaches seemingly coach the same way? I love how Brady, Belichick and the Pats just jack up teams and go aggressive and tear them a new butt hole. That is the way to roll, not this wussy, "I am scared to be burned" mindset. New England is also aggressive with weeding out bad attitudes; they don't play pitty pat once a player has a non-team attitude - they cut them out like cancer. Not this team; they wait until the season is ruined before they make any moves to stamp out players with bad attitudes. Wallace should have been dealt with many weeks ago.

What about the way Bellichick presents his injury report (which seems to be a major issue for you, since you so strongly objected to the Steelers lying to you about Polamalu's calf injury)? Belichick routinely lists nearly 2 dozen players all as questionable, whether they have a broken bone or a hangnail. At one point, I believe Brady was listed as questionable in every game for something like 2 or 3 years without missing a single snap. Players are never probable, doubtful, or out (unless on I.R.)...they are always questionable.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-15-2012, 04:25 PM
To add to my post above, I think that conservative approach is why we have the 'play down to the competition' games. We shut it down on offense or go conservative on defense and then one mistake allows the other team back in the game.

NJ-STEELER
12-15-2012, 04:57 PM
i can probably name at least 20 teams with a better feature back or a better #1 receiver.

we've drafted guys in the past to strengthen that but mendy is a dancing bust (pretty much) and they choose not to bring back #1 receiver types after their 1st contract which will probably continue as they let wallace go ( a real good #2 guy IMO)

hawaiiansteel
12-16-2012, 01:56 AM
i can probably name at least 20 teams with a better feature back or a better #1 receiver.


at least...

fezziwig
12-16-2012, 09:47 AM
It's all of the above. For what it requires from the offense, the o-line for Mendy to have a good game or season then, pretty much any back could produce under the perfect conditions. At least Dwyer and Redman will put up a fight.
I put most things on coaching for having poor issues on the field. Maybe not the offensive turnovers but everything else. I have a construction company and I know when I am the resosn why things are not getting done and when things are getting completed. If I don't prepare my guys, be prepared myself, it's like one step forward and two steps back on the job. Right now we have a lot of work and I've made the mistake of delegating certain things and it hasn't worked out. My crew these Steelers need a leader/coach that is on top of everything and the Steelers do not. As much as I hate Bellicheat, his team always seems foused and nothing comes as a surprise to him or what have you. He's still a no good sour puss cheating unproffesional bastard but outside of that, his teams are well coached. Even when he was with the Browns I would think, " they do't have a lot of talent on that team but, their coach gets the most of of them. " Tomlin doesn't seem to have that ability, Lebeau seems too timid or he recognizes he doesn't have the talent or healthy players to be aggresive. I don't know what it is but it all falls upon the coaches.

No eye of the tiger for these coaches or players.

NorthCoast
12-16-2012, 01:33 PM
The Steelers desperately need a beast of a WR, a guy that can win one-on-one jumpballs, a guy that can take hits on a crossing route, a guy that can fight for the ball. the current crop is all about speed and quickness, but that only gets you so much. We saw what SD did. Play press coverage and knock them off their routes. It's easy to do when the CB outweights the WR by 20 lbs.
Heath Miller is the only receiver that can turn on the beast-mode and break the offensive doldrums.

RuthlessBurgher
12-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Every keeps drooling over Belichick as the coach who always has his team focused and ready to play all the time. How many titles has he won since SpyGate stopped? Zero. During SpyGate, New England wins titles in 3 out of 4 seasons. As soon as SpyGate ends, Pittsburgh wins titles in 2 out of the next 4 seasons. New England was 9-0 in the playoffs with 3 titles during SpyGate, and 7-6 in the playoffs with 0 titles after SpyGate. Screw them. When allowed to cheat, Belichick's teams performed at an all-time great level...Lombardi-like. When not allowed to cheat, he is still a good coach, but by no means on an elite level...he gets his teams to the playoffs on a regular basis but can't quite seems to reach that championship threshold...Schottenheimer-like.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-16-2012, 05:46 PM
Every keeps drooling over Belichick as the coach who always has his team focused and ready to play all the time. How many titles has he won since SpyGate stopped? Zero. During SpyGate, New England wins titles in 3 out of 4 seasons. As soon as SpyGate ends, Pittsburgh wins titles in 2 out of the next 4 seasons. New England was 9-0 in the playoffs with 3 titles during SpyGate, and 7-6 in the playoffs with 0 titles after SpyGate. Screw them. When allowed to cheat, Belichick's teams performed at an all-time great level...Lombardi-like. When not allowed to cheat, he is still a good coach, but by no means on an elite level...he gets his teams to the playoffs on a regular basis but can't quite seems to reach that championship threshold...Schottenheimer-like.

I can only speak for myself, but 9 times out of ten when the Pats are favored to win they do and routinely crush crappy teams while we have to hold our breath every game. If you watch that team there is no denying they execute the gameplan typically to precision.