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Dee Dub
12-10-2012, 01:14 AM
How it looks now, the Steelers will be drafting anywhere from 10-18. I think outside of Manti T'eo, that Dee Milliner may be the safest and best pick for the Steelers. With this team being over $30 million towards the cap next year, Ike Taylor is as good as gone. He will be a cap casualty. Has to be. Same with James Harrison. But with Harrison's position they will probably look to replace him with Jason Worilds or move Woodley over to his spot and have Worilds play the LOLB position. Dee Milliner is the best corner in this draft. Very rarely does he ever give up any thing. 20 PBU this year is big indication of where he is in regards to the man he covers.

Manti T'eo or Dee Milliner give the Steelers an elite player. A player that helps others on the defensive side of the ball. And one of them will be there when the Steelers draft.

And if it comes down to choosing one of them from the rest of these players, count me in.

Damontre Moore DE/OLB
Jake Matthews OT
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
Keenan Allen WR
John Jenkins DT
Jonathan Cooper OG
Sheldon Richardson DT
Jesse Williams NT

NJ-STEELER
12-10-2012, 01:38 AM
the way our corners got picked on today


how can you say ike has to go

steelblood
12-10-2012, 08:34 AM
How it looks now, the Steelers will be drafting anywhere from 10-18. I think outside of Manti T'eo, that Dee Milliner may be the safest and best pick for the Steelers. With this team being over $30 million towards the cap next year, Ike Taylor is as good as gone. He will be a cap casualty. Has to be. Same with James Harrison. But with Harrison's position they will probably look to replace him with Jason Worilds or move Woodley over to his spot and have Worilds play the LOLB position. Dee Milliner is the best corner in this draft. Very rarely does he ever give up any thing. 20 PBU this year is big indication of where he is in regards to the man he covers.

Manti T'eo or Dee Milliner give the Steelers an elite player. A player that helps others on the defensive side of the ball. And one of them will be there when the Steelers draft.

And if it comes down to choosing one of them from the rest of these players, count me in.

Damontre Moore DE/OLB
Jake Matthews OT
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
Keenan Allen WR
John Jenkins DT
Jonathan Cooper OG
Sheldon Richardson DT
Jesse Williams NT

We are only about 16 million over the cap. The 30+ million figure would include signing 5-8 million in UFAs, resigning a few RFAs and signing our 2013 draft class. We could get to the cap without cutting Ike. We will likely have to cut Harrison OR Ike and others. It is possible we will cut both, but not necessarily so. Then, we will do our usual restructuring dance to free up the rest.

I think Te'o will go around 12th-14th. I'd be good with the pick. He is getting to be a very good pass defender.

I also like Milliner. He can play on an island mirroring good receivers. He tackles well. He is physical. He is a Steelers type corner.

From the rest of that list, I also like Jake Matthews. I feel we still need another tackle as Max Starks likely won't be back this time. He has certainly earned a 5 million dollar paycheck next season from someone. Gilbert, Adams, and Beachum are all turnstiles in the pass game and will get Ben killed. Matthews can play on the left or right. He is a better run blocker now, but he has all of the tools necessary to be a great pass protector.

I like Damontre Moore and Sam Montgomery very much, but I also really like Stansly Taponga from TCU who may be available in round 2 or 3. I'm not as high on Mingo as I feel sometimes he goes too finesse and would be a liability vs the run.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-10-2012, 09:42 AM
the way our corners got picked on today


how can you say ike has to go

Ike may decide to let them re-work his contract. And maybe Harrison will decide to take less money in order to stay.

Oviedo
12-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Ike may decide to let them re-work his contract. And maybe Harrison will decide to take less money in order to stay.

I think this will be the approach the front office takes. I'm less worried about Ike because this was the first game he ever missed in his career because of an injury. I also can see Ike moving to Free Safety like Woodson did later in his career so there would be value keeping him.

Harrison will be the really hard off season decision. There really is no replacement beating down the doors although Worilds looks better and better. Do you want to risk a repeat of the Aaron Smith saga where we lost him for half the games the last 2-3 years he was on the team?

phillyesq
12-10-2012, 01:33 PM
I think this will be the approach the front office takes. I'm less worried about Ike because this was the first game he ever missed in his career because of an injury. I also can see Ike moving to Free Safety like Woodson did later in his career so there would be value keeping him.

Harrison will be the really hard off season decision. There really is no replacement beating down the doors although Worilds looks better and better. Do you want to risk a repeat of the Aaron Smith saga where we lost him for half the games the last 2-3 years he was on the team?

Harrison is a really hard call at his cap number. There is no coincidence that the run D really began to improve when Harrison returned, and his return seemed to elevate the play of others, including Timmons. He is still a good player, but he's being payed like a great one.

Dee Dub
12-10-2012, 02:11 PM
Why anyone would want to keep Ike Taylor who will be 33 next year and is heading in the wrong direction skill wise is beyond me. Did anyone forget how horrible he played for like the first half of the season? Oh and the next big play he makes will be like his first. The Steelers need to stop holding on to players too long and start bringing in some young, hungry talent. Play makers

Eddie Spaghetti
12-10-2012, 02:15 PM
well, put me down for someone who wants to keep ike, as he is the best CB on the roster.

and he had 2 bad games to start the season IIRC. Not half a season of terrible play dub.

Oviedo
12-10-2012, 02:26 PM
well, put me down for someone who wants to keep ike, as he is the best CB on the roster.

and he had 2 bad games to start the season IIRC. Not half a season of terrible play dub.

I agree...again! This is getting truly disturbing.

Ike is still solid and had really played well after the first few games.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-10-2012, 02:33 PM
I agree...again! This is getting truly disturbing.

Ike is still solid and had really played well after the first few games.

its a festivus miracle ovi!

seriously, I think we have enough talent at CB. They just need reps in games. Now if someone were to fall that they absolutely love, well then I could see them pulling the trigger. I'm also becoming a little leery of saban players in the NFL. Seems like a lot of them peak in college. No real numbers to back this up, just a feeling I get.

phillyesq
12-10-2012, 02:46 PM
its a festivus miracle ovi!

seriously, I think we have enough talent at CB. They just need reps in games. Now if someone were to fall that they absolutely love, well then I could see them pulling the trigger. I'm also becoming a little leery of saban players in the NFL. Seems like a lot of them peak in college. No real numbers to back this up, just a feeling I get.

I'd like to join this gathering around the metal pole, as I'm also among those who believe that Ike Taylor is still the best CB on the Steelers roster.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-10-2012, 02:48 PM
the airing of grievances is scheduled for next week.

BigRob
12-10-2012, 03:10 PM
the way our corners got picked on today


how can you say ike has to go

I agree, he doesn't have to go, but his cap hit is prodigious for 2013. We need him to stay and take a haircut. The other issue is Keenan Lewis. He is a URFA.

What do you do for the future? Sign him and try to keep Taylor?

Not going to happen. So we are probably deciding between Taylor and Lewis. You have to go with the guy under 30 and who is playing very well.

Oviedo
12-10-2012, 03:25 PM
its a festivus miracle ovi!

seriously, I think we have enough talent at CB. They just need reps in games. Now if someone were to fall that they absolutely love, well then I could see them pulling the trigger. I'm also becoming a little leery of saban players in the NFL. Seems like a lot of them peak in college. No real numbers to back this up, just a feeling I get.


OMG. It must be the Sprit of the Season overtaking us! Are you really advocating playing younger players to get them real game experience? Haven't I been saying that for years?

I do (AGAIN) agree with you about Alabama players. I for a long time have felt there was the "USC Effect" where you are on college team that has such a huge talent differencial over the opponents you are never challenged and always look dominant, i.e. USC QBs. I think DBs are a great example. A DB can always look great if the opposing QB is always under pressure making the throw. However when that pressure on the QB isn't as constant and it is more on the DB that is when we see the holes in the DBs game.

BTW--I also feel there is a "Texas Effect" too.

Oviedo
12-10-2012, 03:28 PM
I agree, he doesn't have to go, but his cap hit is prodigious for 2013. We need him to stay and take a haircut. The other issue is Keenan Lewis. He is a URFA.

What do you do for the future? Sign him and try to keep Taylor?

Not going to happen. So we are probably deciding between Taylor and Lewis. You have to go with the guy under 30 and who is playing very well.

It's not a decision. You have to go with Lewis. Ike may want to stay to finish his career here ala Aaron Smith and take a discount. He is rooted in the team and does he really want to go somewhere else?

Chadman
12-10-2012, 05:42 PM
Wouldn't think CB is super-high on the priorities list after the season Lewis has had & the improvement in Allen. Maybe a late round CB, but Chadman would expect the CB situation to be very similar next season to this one.

Playmakers at FS & SS however, sound the go.. as well as a NT.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-10-2012, 06:11 PM
OMG. It must be the Sprit of the Season overtaking us! Are you really advocating playing younger players to get them real game experience? Haven't I been saying that for years?

I was more suggesting that when you put a guy in there due to injury and he fouls up, don't yank him at the 1st sign of trouble like I feel they did with brown yesterday. I can't advocate playing younger guys just because they are younger and you want them to get game experience. Could they do a better job of spoonfeeding the younger CBs some reps? Yes, you may have an argument there. Maybe if we could put some poor teams away early in games, it might be easier to do.

while we are agreeing, you are spot on about texas players.

flippy
12-10-2012, 06:22 PM
I was more suggesting that when you put a guy in there due to injury and he fouls up, don't yank him at the 1st sign of trouble like I feel they did with brown yesterday. I can't advocate playing younger guys just because they are younger and you want them to get game experience. Could they do a better job of spoonfeeding the younger CBs some reps? Yes, you may have an argument there. Maybe if we could put some poor teams away early in games, it might be easier to do.

while we are agreeing, you are spot on about texas players.

is it possible brown got injured in any way? his first bad play looked so bad, he didn't look like he belonged on the field. i thought to myself as bad as wally drives me bonkers when he half arses it sometimes, he never doesn't look like an NFLer. brown just didn't belong.

there was a lot of bad play. bronko really stood out as having a rough game. but even when he got beat, he fought through it. not sure if I can describe it right, but there's just different levels of bad play. and brown was as bad as it gets.

NJ-STEELER
12-11-2012, 01:31 AM
Why anyone would want to keep Ike Taylor who will be 33 next year and is heading in the wrong direction skill wise is beyond me. Did anyone forget how horrible he played for like the first half of the season? Oh and the next big play he makes will be like his first. The Steelers need to stop holding on to players too long and start bringing in some young, hungry talent. Play makers

the playmakers we have at corner behind ike were 'making plays' for the other team

BradshawsHairdresser
01-18-2013, 09:45 AM
After the game try to use for party.
What the????

steelz09
01-18-2013, 11:39 AM
In the first round, I just don't see a d-line, o-line, or CB being picked.

You have Ike, Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis.

If Ike is let go (unlikely) and Lewis is resigned (likely) then Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis are the starters

If Ike stays and Lewis stays then they will be the starters again.

If Ike stays and Lewis goes then Ike and Allen are the starters.

If we were to go with a DB in the first round, I'd prefer it be a safety. We need depth and a future starter at safety. He'll be a backup S this year if Clark and Polamalu can stay healthy but realistically 1 of those 2 will be hurt during the season at some time. If Clark/Polamalu do stay healthy, a 1st round safety will see significant playing time in subpackages and obviously special teams... that's almost as good as starting.

NW Steeler
01-18-2013, 11:47 AM
If someone offers Keenan $10mil a season as some have projected, I cant see the Steelers matching that. We might be back to having a dire need for a CB all of a sudden.

steelz09
01-18-2013, 11:59 AM
If someone offers Keenan $10mil a season as some have projected, I cant see the Steelers matching that. We might be back to having a dire need for a CB all of a sudden.

I don't think he'll get that but who knows...

If push came to shove, I'd let Ike walk to keep Lewis.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-18-2013, 12:02 PM
I think we lose lewis once he hits the market.it would be nice if brown could actually help.

steelz09
01-18-2013, 02:21 PM
I want the Steelers to keep Ike for next season and sign Lewis to a long-term deal.

I would NOT keep Ike if it was at the expense of losing Lewis. The bottom line is that Ike is a "now" player and is not in the Steelers future plans. It's not because he's not good right now... it's because of his age. Age, especially at the CB position will greatly impact level of play.

Lewis on the other hand has developed into starter material and age is on his side. We've spent years developing Lewis and he finally had his breakout season thus far. Why would the Steelers develop their young talent just to let another team take him away. If they want to be competetive, they can't let this stuff happen. Of anything, you keep Lewis and let Ike walk. That isn't even a difficult position. Historically, the Steelers have been good at knowing when to move on from older players in favor of a younger player. This fits the same mold.

The future CB starters is likely Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis. There will probably be another CB (draft pick) in the mix but it won't be a 1st rounder if Lewis is resigned. Ike is not the future and the Steelers & fans should just accept that. If Ike is kept and Lewis walks, I feel the Steelers are making a huge mistake and jeopardizing the team's success now and in the future.

RuthlessBurgher
01-18-2013, 02:21 PM
If we lose Lewis to free agency, then Ike and Cortez will be our starters going into next season. But how long does Ike have left, realistically (particularly when you compare his age with his cap number)? Without Lewis, we would need a starting CB of the future (since I don't see much in Curtis Brown or Josh Victorian at this point). Unfortunately, it appears that Milliner is far out of our reach (the consensus top CB in the draft always goes in the top half of round 1). The only other CB who provides first round value would be Banks from Mississippi State. Day 2 possibilities include Xavier Rhodes, David Amerson, Desmond Trufant, etc. Hopefully we are able to retain Lewis so this won't be an issue, but we'll have to wait and see.

RuthlessBurgher
01-18-2013, 02:22 PM
If Ike is kept and Lewis walks, I feel the Steelers are making a huge mistake and jeopardizing the team's success now and in the future.

I'm a big fan of Ike's, but :Agree