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View Full Version : This defense is better without Troy



msp26505
12-09-2012, 06:16 PM
Lebeau calls a different game with Troy in there.

I have never been one to over-react. And I am not among those who want to see DL shown the door. He is as good as they come.

But this D plays better when Troy is out and DL calls a more conservative game.

Today was an aberration. Even the '70's Steelers had games like this, where seemingly everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

But the way DL calls a game without Troy in there, I doubt this D gives up a 17-play drive to start the second half.

Oddly enough, I don't blame Troy. He does what he does, including seemingly being the only one who can cause turnovers, but the game the defense plays when he is in there is different than the one they play when he is out, and the fact that they are not as effective without him falls on Lebeau's, and ultimately, Tomlin's shoulders.

Snatch98
12-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Lebeau calls a different game with Troy in there.

I have never been one to over-react. And I am not among those who want to see DL shown the door. He is as good as they come.

But this D plays better when Troy is out and DL calls a more conservative game.

Today was an aberration. Even the '70's Steelers had games like this, where seemingly everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

But the way DL calls a game without Troy in there, I doubt this D gives up a 17-play drive to start the second half.

Oddly enough, I don't blame Troy. He does what he does, including seemingly being the only one who can cause turnovers, but the game the defense plays when he is in there is different than the one they play when he is out, and the fact that they are not as effective without him falls on Lebeau's, and ultimately, Tomlin's shoulders.

That was the picture painted today but I don't believe that's the case at all. Our corners didn't play a clean game, we weren't pressuring Rivers and our d-line seemed to be getting blown off the ball. It just wasn't a good game plain and simple and I think it has very little do with how Lebeau called the game. Why would he change it up that much anyway? We missed Ike today, end of story.

Chadman
12-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Starting to wonder if Troy might not be better used in the FS role & have Clark play closer to the LOS like he did when Troy was out injured...

Mister Pittsburgh
12-09-2012, 07:01 PM
I actually think Lebeau calls an extremely vanilla game with Troy in there. All the other players have to play very vanilla and take no chances while Troy runs around and gets out of position. Cb's are more likely to play tight to the LOS and jam the WR or try and jump a route if they actually have S help instead of the SS being up at the LOS playing like he is a 5th LB.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-09-2012, 07:04 PM
Starting to wonder if Troy might not be better used in the FS role & have Clark play closer to the LOS like he did when Troy was out injured...
If we need are safeties playing at the LOS so much then we need a better front 7.

SteelCrazy
12-09-2012, 07:24 PM
LeBeau is very stubborn. He'll not change a game plan to save his life. He believes in his guys and his design to a fault. Sometimes it just doesnt work and today was that day. Ike was missed, but we still lose even with him in there.

Chadman
12-09-2012, 07:28 PM
If we need are safeties playing at the LOS so much then we need a better front 7.

Would suggest they are missing 1 elite piece to the front 7 now that Hampton isn't dominant anymore.

chiken
12-09-2012, 07:59 PM
This Defense is better with Ike Taylor.. We took for granted his ability to tackle..

steelfin
12-09-2012, 08:00 PM
This is an interesting topic...I think it will take some time to adjust the defense with Troy back there.

I think Clark is a better player right now. When Troy is playing it takes some of Clark's impact out of the equation.

But Troy is the man...lets just hope the defense can adjust and we start seeing the impact plays that Troy is capable of....

phillyesq
12-09-2012, 08:12 PM
This Defense is better with Ike Taylor.. We took for granted his ability to tackle..

The subtraction of Ike Taylor was the difference today, not the addition of Troy.

feltdizz
12-09-2012, 08:15 PM
I have to agree... there were a few times when Clark looked confused because he didn't know what Troy was going to do. Looks like Clark is still getting last to Troy adlibbing

feltdizz
12-09-2012, 08:17 PM
The subtraction of Ike Taylor was the difference today, not the addition of Troy.

The difference? I wouldn't go that far.. I don't think Ike would have changed the outcome of this game. This reminded me of the Pats when they owned us. This wasn't speed beating us deep, it wad 7 and 10 yard outs with big TE's and big WR's.. I don't see Ike changing the game.

steelfin
12-09-2012, 08:18 PM
The subtraction of Ike Taylor was the difference today, not the addition of Troy.

While I agree that Ike was a bigger factor than the addition of Troy...Neither player was the reason we lost the game....

Our inability to move the ball and score points was the difference maker today...Add special team penalties, a fumble for a TD and an interception inside the 20 or 30....The offense kept us in bad field position the majority of the day...

While the defense didn't play up to "our" standards...neither Troy nor Ike could have scored enough points to win this game.

Let's lay the blame where it belongs....

Mister Pittsburgh
12-09-2012, 08:18 PM
Troy should just focus on playing S the best he can instead of worrying about all the sly fox shenanigans.

chiken
12-10-2012, 12:00 AM
I saw to many corner-backs not named Lewis missing tackles - Ike is normally a pretty sure Tackler. And who was the guy who jumped in front of the Receiver in the ENDZONE.. on the last SD touchdown.. I don't believe that guy would have been on the field if Ike was playing..

Our CBs had been playing pretty darn good, up until Today - Ike goes out, the Dept is shifted, The Cb's play lousy (maybe because Ike is not following around their #1 receiver leaving the rest to the kids) and yet somehow Troy is the reason..

Dee Dub
12-10-2012, 12:46 AM
The subtraction of Ike Taylor was the difference today, not the addition of Troy.

You really think Ike Taylor is a difference maker? Not me. I think in the overall scheme of things, he is one of the big reasons this team isnt very good. Ike is on the downside of his career. Not on the upside/difference maker side. Lol!!

SS Laser
12-10-2012, 01:16 AM
How are these guys the #1 pass defense? #1 overall defense? What am I missing?

Dee Dub
12-10-2012, 01:23 AM
How are these guys the #1 pass defense? #1 overall defense? What am I missing?

Very simple. Their opponents winning percentage this year is .467.

phillyesq
12-10-2012, 01:36 AM
You really think Ike Taylor is a difference maker? Not me. I think in the overall scheme of things, he is one of the big reasons this team isnt very good. Ike is on the downside of his career. Not on the upside/difference maker side. Lol!!

I think that Curtis Brown and Josh Victorian were difference makers - for the Chargers. They never see the field if Ike is in the game, and Ike typically matches up well against guys like Floyd and Alexander.

SS Laser
12-10-2012, 01:37 AM
Is that also why they had the same ranking last year? Very interesting.

msp26505
12-10-2012, 07:23 AM
I didn't say the D was the reason the Steelers lost this game. It was a team effort. In fact, I even pointed out that these crap games happen.

I always get worried when I hear announcers say things (or see graphics) like, "San Diego's record all-time at Pittsburgh during the regular season is 0-14." The law of averages will eventually catch up with us, regardless of our record, the opponents record, etc. And I worry about this for ALL my teams...the Pens, WVU, and even the Pirates.

But to my admittedly untrained eye, the D appears to have to play differently with Troy in there because he is allowed to ad lib. That means 10 must do the job of 11 when he is going off script. When Troy is in exactly the right place at the right time, that's great, but he is not far too often. I prefer 11 guys playing their position as we saw during Troy's absence. It wasn't sexy because there were so few turnovers, but it was highly effective.