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Lonbull
12-03-2012, 09:06 PM
I always thought Willie Parker received less credit than he deserved -- and when Mendenhall was drafted I remember people posting that the position would be "greatly" improved. Granted (on paper) Mendenhall certainly looks like he has/had all the tools -- Big guy, with some speed, and good hands.....but his production certainly hasn't been worth a 1st round pick -- and after reviewing the numbers I wonder if those same folks who thought Mendenhall would be a great improvement --- shouldn't either consider Mendenhall a bust or Parker much better than previously credited.

Willie Parker's last 5 seasons:

5,192 Rushing
697 Receiving
29 Total TD's

*Best rushing season - 1,494 yards

Rashard Mendenhall's last 5 seasons

3,480 Rushing Yards (he would need 1,712 yards to "equal" Parker)
660 Receiving yards
30 Total TD's

*Best rushing season - 1,273 yards.


Mendenhall is still a fairly young guy (26 next season) --- however how many people think they "haven't" seen enough, and that he still has plenty of potential?

I was never happy that people critisized Parker for being a "less-than" Running Back....he certainly wasn't going to be a Hall of Famer like Jerome, but compare him to our recent first rounder -- he looks pretty solid to me!

L.B.

lloydroid
12-03-2012, 09:13 PM
Parker ended up being what he was always thought of: A super fast back but lacking vision and fairly one-dimensional. But, that being said, I would agree that he was a better over all back than RM has ever proven to be. But also, I think RM had more seasons with really crap OL than did Willie. But, naaaawwwwww, that isn't that much of a factor. We have seen RM come back and make the OL look bad, because he never creates plays like Dwyer has proven to be capable of. RM makes the OL look worse than it is. For instance, there were at least two plays where JD ran into a wall, but bounced off and made big plays out of it even though it was originally well defensed by the Ravens. One was a TD rush the other a nice long run to the right. For whatever reason, RM just doesn't create plays like that. He will spin and then just fall down if there aren't obvious holes. JD makes something out of nothing. Not every play, of course. But at least he can do that a few times a game. RM never does this.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-04-2012, 12:13 AM
RM has never lived up to the billing. Regardless of the comparison with FWP, the flashes we saw from RM have been way too rare. We have seen him behind a sub par OL for years, but he still did not show enough when he did get an opening. He might just be shell-shocked, but it doesn't really matter now, he just never lived up.

ikestops85
12-04-2012, 12:24 PM
I think the problem with RM and FWP is they always went down at first contact. Our offensive line isn't good enough to open big holes. RM and FWP were very good when they hit the second level but they just didn't hit that level often enough. Guys like Dwyer and Redman almost never go down at first contact. When they get to the second level they are still looking for guys to hit. Those types of runners work better with the line we have now.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-04-2012, 12:58 PM
FWP was an undrafted free agent, and hence, a tremendous value. He had his limitations and weaknesses, but he was a very good and important member of this team. After he lost a bit of speed due to injury, he became expendable.

RM was a first-round draft pick, so he had a lot higher expectations coming in. He did a pretty good job for a couple of years, but, especially the past couple of years, hasn't lived up to expectations. With other (cheaper) runners on the roster, who seem to run just as well as (or better than) RM behind the current OL, he has become expendable.

It's business, and it's life in the NFL, especially at the RB position.

feltdizz
12-04-2012, 01:19 PM
I was a fan of RM at Illinois and I was very happy when we drafted him. Someone on the board (or maybe it was the Trib) bashed FWP so bad and trumped up RM so much I became less of a fan and even became a little skeptical of RM....

He fumbled a ton in preseason and earned the name fumblehall... then he tweeted a friend on the Ravens talking a little smack about how he would do in his first start. Ray Ray ended his season on the 2nd or 3rd carry and I think that damaged him mentally. I remember hearing how he was avoiding the team during rehab.

He ran better and had a great game vs the Bears a year or 2 later and then Tomlin benched him the next game. Obviously Tomlin soured on sweetness... and really, how good will you be with a name like sweetness? Is there more to the story? I know he liked to dance naked in the locker room. WTF was that about?

As far as FWP was concerned... the guy had ZERO vision.. but that was also a plus. There weren't too many lost yards because FWP couldn't move laterally... just lead and he followed... really fast too.

In the end I think RM just isn't that guy.... sometimes we miss and these days you can't take a chance on a RB early unless it's a Peterson or Barry Sanders type.

Sugar
12-04-2012, 01:47 PM
and really, how good will you be with a name like sweetness? Is there more to the story? I know he liked to dance naked in the locker room. WTF was that about?


Walter Payton??

Ghost
12-04-2012, 02:00 PM
Could just be my perception but I always felt as if Nate Washington got a ton more leeway when it came to criticism for mediocre play (which was most of the time) than FWP ever did. Nate was somehow a "great story" but Willie didn't get that love and I never understood it. I really liked him, espeically when he was ripping off a 75 yard TD run in the Super Bowl.

We kid around a lot on this board about using the term bust. I think it applies here given his draft round. Looking at the above comparision against an undrafted FA and now being beat out by a 6th round guy; it's hard not to use the term. He's 26 and I don't think anyone would think the team was hurt in any way if he walked at the end of the season.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-04-2012, 02:12 PM
Mendenhall blows. There are half a dozen equal backs that could be had in rounds 3 through 7 this year and a few that will be better than him.

Dee Dub
12-04-2012, 02:18 PM
I was a fan of RM at Illinois and I was very happy when we drafted him. Someone on the board (or maybe it was the Trib) bashed FWP so bad and trumped up RM so much I became less of a fan and even became a little skeptical of RM....

Glad to see I have that affect on you. ;) If we were opponents on the field I guess you could say I own you. I certainly rent a ton of space in your head, that is for sure.

Dee Dub
12-04-2012, 02:24 PM
I dont think it is fair to compare 5 years of Willie Parker to 5 years of Rashard Mendenhall. Mendenhall after all has had some injuries that have limited his availability on the field over his 5 year period. Mendenhall has missed 21 games over his career. And those 21 games to Mendenhall and those numbers are way more in favor of him over what Willie posted. And Willie Parker played for a Steeler team that was much more run heavy than the one Mendenhall has played on the past couple of years.

phillyesq
12-04-2012, 03:00 PM
We kid around a lot on this board about using the term bust. I think it applies here given his draft round. Looking at the above comparision against an undrafted FA and now being beat out by a 6th round guy; it's hard not to use the term. He's 26 and I don't think anyone would think the team was hurt in any way if he walked at the end of the season.

He's certainly been one of the least successful first round picks the Steelers have made after a long string of unqualified hits, but the bust label may be a bit harsh. After all, Mendenhall did put up one very solid season as a starter and was a contributor in other seasons, when healthy.

Looking at his draft, he was one pick after Felix Jones, one before Chris Johnson. Felix Jones was a bust, no doubt. Mendenhall was no Johnson, and I've never been a Mendenhall fan, but I'm not quite sure that he rises to the level of a bust, which I usually reserve for the Limas Sweeds of the world.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-04-2012, 03:44 PM
Mendenhall blows. There are half a dozen equal backs that could be had in rounds 3 through 7 this year and a few that will be better than him.

I remember a few years ago on here there was an article that someone posted that had NFL backs grouped into tiers of 5 (IIRC) and RM was put in the third or fourth tier. People here were up in arms about that, but then when you look at the list of backs that you would rather have, he was certainly not a top ten back.

The other thing is that the defense of Mendenhall is never about his production, it has always been about him being forced to play behind a bad line and just wait and see what would happen if he ever had a decent line in front of him. Then, suddenly, Redman put up some numbers in limited snaps. This year, both Dwyer and Redman have put together good games. All the while, all we keep hearing is that RM is the best RB on the team. Being the best does not matter when there is never production to back that up.

feltdizz
12-04-2012, 03:45 PM
Glad to see I have that affect on you. ;) If we were opponents on the field I guess you could say I own you. I certainly rent a ton of space in your head, that is for sure.

Lol.. if owning = not remembering your name and you being 100% wrong about a player then sure... OK.

feltdizz
12-04-2012, 03:57 PM
Could just be my perception but I always felt as if Nate Washington got a ton more leeway when it came to criticism for mediocre play (which was most of the time) than FWP ever did. Nate was somehow a "great story" but Willie didn't get that love and I never understood it. I really liked him, espeically when he was ripping off a 75 yard TD run in the Super Bowl.

We kid around a lot on this board about using the term bust. I think it applies here given his draft round. Looking at the above comparision against an undrafted FA and now being beat out by a 6th round guy; it's hard not to use the term. He's 26 and I don't think anyone would think the team was hurt in any way if he walked at the end of the season.

Nate Washington was an undrafted free agent from Tiffin... I never understood the hate for that guy.

Sometimes it feels like the undrafted guys get more criticism than the drafted players who are always given "more time" because they have college highlights on youtube...

I don't think RM is a bust but he is real close to one when you look at FWP, Dwyer and Redman.

feltdizz
12-04-2012, 04:00 PM
I dont think it is fair to compare 5 years of Willie Parker to 5 years of Rashard Mendenhall. Mendenhall after all has had some injuries that have limited his availability on the field over his 5 year period. Mendenhall has missed 21 games over his career. And those 21 games to Mendenhall and those numbers are way more in favor of him over what Willie posted. And Willie Parker played for a Steeler team that was much more run heavy than the one Mendenhall has played on the past couple of years.

hahaha.... don't believe a word this joker tells you about RM. He had pom poms and was doing high kicks talking about RM being the best back we would ever see in a Steeler uni.

Ghost
12-04-2012, 04:15 PM
He's certainly been one of the least successful first round picks the Steelers have made after a long string of unqualified hits, but the bust label may be a bit harsh. After all, Mendenhall did put up one very solid season as a starter and was a contributor in other seasons, when healthy.

Looking at his draft, he was one pick after Felix Jones, one before Chris Johnson. Felix Jones was a bust, no doubt. Mendenhall was no Johnson, and I've never been a Mendenhall fan, but I'm not quite sure that he rises to the level of a bust, which I usually reserve for the Limas Sweeds of the world.

That's fair, espcially if the bar is set with Sweed!!

Ghost
12-04-2012, 04:38 PM
Nate Washington was an undrafted free agent from Tiffin... I never understood the hate for that guy.

Sometimes it feels like the undrafted guys get more criticism than the drafted players who are always given "more time" because they have college highlights on youtube...

I don't think RM is a bust but he is real close to one when you look at FWP, Dwyer and Redman.

And Parker was an UFA who hardly played in college b/c his coach didn't feel he was big enough. Very similar rising above circumstances stories, which was my point. I never understood why one UFA, Washington, got a pass when he played poorly and another UFA, Parker, took so much heat and people could not wait to get rid of him.

Dee Dub
12-04-2012, 05:16 PM
hahaha.... don't believe a word this joker tells you about RM. He had pom poms and was doing high kicks talking about RM being the best back we would ever see in a Steeler uni.

Are you kidding me? Mendenhall is already has more career rushing TD's, only 9 less receptions, and has more reception yards than Willie Parker and Mendenhall has missed 21 games the past 5 years. Parker for 5 plus season with the Steelers played in 79 games. Mendy has played in 56.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-04-2012, 05:31 PM
I dont think it is fair to compare 5 years of Willie Parker to 5 years of Rashard Mendenhall. Mendenhall after all has had some injuries that have limited his availability on the field over his 5 year period. Mendenhall has missed 21 games over his career. And those 21 games to Mendenhall and those numbers are way more in favor of him over what Willie posted. And Willie Parker played for a Steeler team that was much more run heavy than the one Mendenhall has played on the past couple of years.

You're not factoring in that Parker missed at least 9 games due to injury over his career, but also was used sparingly his entire first season because he was behind Jerome Bettis, Duce Staley, and Verron Haynes on the depth chart. All in all, about a wash when it comes to number of games in which RM and FWP were really given an opportunity to play.

As far as the Steelers having a more "run-oriented" team with Parker, maybe it was partly because, prior to his fibula injury, Parker was more productive than Mendenhall has proven to be.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-04-2012, 05:41 PM
I remember a few years ago on here there was an article that someone posted that had NFL backs grouped into tiers of 5 (IIRC) and RM was put in the third or fourth tier. People here were up in arms about that, but then when you look at the list of backs that you would rather have, he was certainly not a top ten back.

The other thing is that the defense of Mendenhall is never about his production, it has always been about him being forced to play behind a bad line and just wait and see what would happen if he ever had a decent line in front of him. Then, suddenly, Redman put up some numbers in limited snaps. This year, both Dwyer and Redman have put together good games. All the while, all we keep hearing is that RM is the best RB on the team. Being the best does not matter when there is never production to back that up.

I remember reading Kirby Wilson singing Mendenhalls praises a month and a half ago about how awesome he is, etc......I'm glad Kirby Wilson isn't our OC and hopefully Haley is here for quite a while and not just a year.

D Rock
12-04-2012, 05:49 PM
Mendenhall's favorite food


715


He carries it everywhere with him.

lloydroid
12-04-2012, 05:56 PM
He's certainly been one of the least successful first round picks the Steelers have made after a long string of unqualified hits, but the bust label may be a bit harsh. After all, Mendenhall did put up one very solid season as a starter and was a contributor in other seasons, when healthy.

Looking at his draft, he was one pick after Felix Jones, one before Chris Johnson. Felix Jones was a bust, no doubt. Mendenhall was no Johnson, and I've never been a Mendenhall fan, but I'm not quite sure that he rises to the level of a bust, which I usually reserve for the Limas Sweeds of the world.

In my mind, a bust is someone who never ever has a decent season and is out of football within 2 years of being drafted. I mean, those aren't the total qualifiers; a player can maintain in the league for more than 2 years and still be a bust. Ryan Leaf was a complete bust. So was DeMarcus Russell, Heath Shuler, David Klingler, Ware, Akili Smith, Blair Thomas, Kajana Carter, etc. But those were all first over all picks, or nearly all. In my mind RM is a "disappointment" but not quite a bust. But, in my mind, the differentiation doesn't really matter; at the end of the day, they are about the same thing.

lloydroid
12-04-2012, 06:01 PM
I remember a few years ago on here there was an article that someone posted that had NFL backs grouped into tiers of 5 (IIRC) and RM was put in the third or fourth tier. People here were up in arms about that, but then when you look at the list of backs that you would rather have, he was certainly not a top ten back.

The other thing is that the defense of Mendenhall is never about his production, it has always been about him being forced to play behind a bad line and just wait and see what would happen if he ever had a decent line in front of him. Then, suddenly, Redman put up some numbers in limited snaps. This year, both Dwyer and Redman have put together good games. All the while, all we keep hearing is that RM is the best RB on the team. Being the best does not matter when there is never production to back that up.

Which means he isn't the "best." He may have the most talent, but it hasn't translated into production. As I said in July, JD is our best back.

lloydroid
12-04-2012, 06:06 PM
I don't think you can claim Felix Jones is a bust. He still dresses for games and usually has some touches each week. If we aren't going to qualify RM as a bust, we can't use that label on Jones. Jones showed some nice flashes as a rookie, and then again some this season. They had him put on a bunch of weight his 2nd year, and that was a stupid, moronic decision. Jones thought it would make him more durable, but all it did was take away his speed, which was his best attribute. I think Jones still have a place on an NFL team; but it probably isn't the role of an every down back, which does make his draft place too high, but not a bust. A bust is more like Tim Worley.

Chadman
12-04-2012, 06:56 PM
Hang on a second...

Before we all call Mendenhall a 'bust', let's remember that in year 1 he busted his shoulder. Year 2 he gained 930 yards on the ground at 4.1 YPC with 9 TD's in the mix. Year 3 was nearly 1,300 yards on the ground with 13 TD's & in Year 4, 1,100 yards on the ground with 7 TD's. Not only that, in that 3 year stretch he missed the sum total of 4 games, while carrying a massive share of the workload. Year 4 he simply hasn't gotten started all year through injury.

And that doesn't include his recieving yards.

All that in an Arians Offence.

He's NOT a bust. He's a very servicable RB.

But the anti-Mendenhall club should certainly continue this slanted attack on him.

Mendenhall's biggest crime as a Steeler, as far as Chadman can see, was that he didn't agree with celebrating the death of Bin Laden. His 'football crimes' are nit-picky.

SidSmythe
12-04-2012, 06:56 PM
Isn't Mendhenhall only 25 yrs. old???
I think if he goes to a finesse offense and learns to hold the ball into his body he could end his career on a high note. I just don't think Pittsburgh is the place for him. in his case the grass may be greener on the other side.

Dee Dub
12-04-2012, 07:35 PM
You're not factoring in that Parker missed at least 9 games due to injury over his career, but also was used sparingly his entire first season because he was behind Jerome Bettis, Duce Staley, and Verron Haynes on the depth chart. All in all, about a wash when it comes to number of games in which RM and FWP were really given an opportunity to play.

As far as the Steelers having a more "run-oriented" team with Parker, maybe it was partly because, prior to his fibula injury, Parker was more productive than Mendenhall has proven to be.

Ok here, Willie Parker played 79 games in just over 5 years for the Steelers. Rashard Mendenhall has played in 56 as a Steelers. So factor away.

What would Mendy's number look like with those extra 23 games?

D Rock
12-04-2012, 07:50 PM
Hang on a second...

Before we all call Mendenhall a 'bust', let's remember that in year 1 he busted his shoulder. Year 2 he gained 930 yards on the ground at 4.1 YPC with 9 TD's in the mix. Year 3 was nearly 1,300 yards on the ground with 13 TD's & in Year 4, 1,100 yards on the ground with 7 TD's. Not only that, in that 3 year stretch he missed the sum total of 4 games, while carrying a massive share of the workload. Year 4 he simply hasn't gotten started all year through injury.

And that doesn't include his recieving yards.

All that in an Arians Offence.

He's NOT a bust. He's a very servicable RB.

But the anti-Mendenhall club should certainly continue this slanted attack on him.

Mendenhall's biggest crime as a Steeler, as far as Chadman can see, was that he didn't agree with celebrating the death of Bin Laden. His 'football crimes' are nit-picky.


Five years in and he still runs with the ball like this

716


I can't overlook that.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-04-2012, 08:14 PM
Ok here, Willie Parker played 79 games in just over 5 years for the Steelers. Rashard Mendenhall has played in 56 as a Steelers. So factor away.

What would Mendy's number look like with those extra 23 games?

Who knows? What would Parker's numbers have looked like had he been the feature back during his rookie year, rather than barely getting to sniff the field? Aren't those essentially 16 games that could be discounted?

Then again, why is number of games played the decisive factor? Why not number of carries? Super Bowl performances? Number of thousand-yard-plus seasons in a row?

I know you generally can't stand to see low-round draft picks and undrafted FAs do well...I understand that.
But I don't see how you can make a good case that Rashard Mendenhall is a much better running back than Willie Parker was. Maybe he will play lights out for the next five years, and establish himself as the better back. To this point, he hasn't.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-04-2012, 09:03 PM
Hang on a second...

Before we all call Mendenhall a 'bust', let's remember that in year 1 he busted his shoulder. Year 2 he gained 930 yards on the ground at 4.1 YPC with 9 TD's in the mix. Year 3 was nearly 1,300 yards on the ground with 13 TD's & in Year 4, 1,100 yards on the ground with 7 TD's. Not only that, in that 3 year stretch he missed the sum total of 4 games, while carrying a massive share of the workload. Year 4 he simply hasn't gotten started all year through injury.

And that doesn't include his recieving yards.

All that in an Arians Offence.

He's NOT a bust. He's a very servicable RB.

But the anti-Mendenhall club should certainly continue this slanted attack on him.

Mendenhall's biggest crime as a Steeler, as far as Chadman can see, was that he didn't agree with celebrating the death of Bin Laden. His 'football crimes' are nit-picky.

I'll throw a wrench in the whole debate and say I don't think FWP or RM are/were very good feature backs. Both of their YPC is deceiving. A feature back can't get stuffed for 1 or 2 YPC on 10 runs in a row, then ramble for 40 on the 11th and be considered the feature back. That was both of their modes of operation and our offense sucked. I'll take Dwyer getting 3-4 yards a carry and rattling of a 15 or 20 harder here and there over that.

feltdizz
12-04-2012, 09:04 PM
Undrafted vs 1st round.... Mendenhall was handed the starting role and he didn't make the most of it...


hell, if Mendenhall ran like AP or Arian Foster he could marry Bin Ladens wife.

Dee Dub
12-04-2012, 09:47 PM
Who knows? What would Parker's numbers have looked like had he been the feature back during his rookie year, rather than barely getting to sniff the field? Aren't those essentially 16 games that could be discounted?

Then again, why is number of games played the decisive factor? Why not number of carries? Super Bowl performances? Number of thousand-yard-plus seasons in a row?

I know you generally can't stand to see low-round draft picks and undrafted FAs do well...I understand that.
But I don't see how you can make a good case that Rashard Mendenhall is a much better running back than Willie Parker was. Maybe he will play lights out for the next five years, and establish himself as the better back. To this point, he hasn't.

I have no idea what you are talking about..especially the part about me not standing low round draft picks and un-drafted FA's doing well. I am like the biggest draft geek on this board why would you ever think that about me? Sounds lame and out of the side of your neck, if you ask me. And it appears as if you really don't understand.

I never said anything about one be better than the other. My comment was I didn't think comparing their numbers (which is what the original post was), was fair because Parker has played many more games than Mendenhall (23).

Get it now?

Chadman
12-04-2012, 11:23 PM
I'll throw a wrench in the whole debate and say I don't think FWP or RM are/were very good feature backs. Both of their YPC is deceiving. A feature back can't get stuffed for 1 or 2 YPC on 10 runs in a row, then ramble for 40 on the 11th and be considered the feature back. That was both of their modes of operation and our offense sucked. I'll take Dwyer getting 3-4 yards a carry and rattling of a 15 or 20 harder here and there over that.

This, Chadman will agree with. While Parker & Mendenhall's stats will show them to be very effective RB's, in an offense like the Steelers, their style may not suit as an 'every down' type RB. Dwyer is certainly more the 3 yards & a cloud of dust-type that we have come to love. And, given that our offense is now, essentially, Ben- all that is needed in the running game is that it doesn't leave Ben in too many 3rd & long situations.

Dwyer & Redman will be a servicable RB duo. But they will never have the ability of a Mendenhall. And if Ben were to get injured, it's unlikely you can expect Dwyer/Redman to produce game-winning individual moments. Mendenhall, and before him, Parker had/have that ability.

Was Mendenhall a 1st round talent? Yes.

Was he what Steelers fans expected? No.

Has he failed/flopped/been a bust? No. He's just not the type of RB we want or, in many cases, need.

You know who probably wouldn't be a bad Steelers running back?

Former Detroit Lion Kevin Smith. Nothing flashy, but will consistantly move forward.

And the Lions couldn't get rid of him fast enough to go with the flashy Jahvid Best.

Different horses, different courses.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-05-2012, 10:27 AM
I have no idea what you are talking about..especially the part about me not standing low round draft picks and un-drafted FA's doing well. I am like the biggest draft geek on this board why would you ever think that about me? Sounds lame and out of the side of your neck, if you ask me. And it appears as if you really don't understand.

I never said anything about one be better than the other. My comment was I didn't think comparing their numbers (which is what the original post was), was fair because Parker has played many more games than Mendenhall (23).

Get it now?

OK, I will try to write in words that are easier to understand.

You are saying that it's unfair to compare Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall because RM played in fewer games than WP.

You say that if RM had played in the same number of games as WP, RM would have more yards, and better statistics.

I call bull.

Over the course of his career, WP carried the ball 1253 times for 5378 yards. He averaged 4.3 yards per carry, and 68.1 yards per game.

Over the course of his career, RM carried the ball 847 times for 3480 yards. He averaged 4.1 ypc, and 63.3 yards per game.

Do the math. An equal number of games does not give RM more yards than WP. Sorry.

RM does have more touchdowns, 29 to 24. But for WPs first two years here, we had a guy named Jerome Bettis on the roster, who was getting the bulk of the opportunities when we got close to the goal line. If we'd had a Bettis playing for two of RMs years, he might have a few less TDs as well.

I believe the stats show that RM was a better receiver--but not by much. WP had 84 receptions over his career, an average of 1.1 per game, for 697 yards. RM has had 75, an average of 1.4 per game, for 660 yards.

As far as games missed due to injury--you seem to think that gives WP an unfair advantage. It could be argued that it shows he was more durable than RM.

In at least one category, RM is far ahead of WP: boneheaded tweets.:D

Slapstick
12-05-2012, 11:40 AM
A feature back can't get stuffed for 1 or 2 YPC on 10 runs in a row, then ramble for 40 on the 11th and be considered the feature back.

Barry Sanders.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-05-2012, 12:14 PM
Barry Sanders.

Did the Lions offense operate well with Barry Sanders? Did they win a conference championship, Superbowl? No, Barry Sanders got a lot of yardage by games end and they punted a lot between his 80 yard runs.

Slapstick
12-05-2012, 12:26 PM
Did the Lions offense operate well with Barry Sanders? Did they win a conference championship, Superbowl? No, Barry Sanders got a lot of yardage by games end and they punted a lot between his 80 yard runs.

Not the argument. Barry Sanders was a featured back in the NFL.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Not the argument. Barry Sanders was a featured back in the NFL.

That is the point. The Lions offense still wasn't that good with one of the fastest speed backs as a feature back. You cannot have a consistant offense when your RB gets 1 or 2 yards a carry then rips off a 50 yarder, ends with 100 yards. You need a chain mover that can rip off the occasional 20 yard gallop like Dwyer vs. the Ravens running for 16 on a TD run.

Dee Dub
12-05-2012, 02:17 PM
OK, I will try to write in words that are easier to understand.

You are saying that it's unfair to compare Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall because RM played in fewer games than WP.

You say that if RM had played in the same number of games as WP, RM would have more yards, and better statistics.

I call bull.

Over the course of his career, WP carried the ball 1253 times for 5378 yards. He averaged 4.3 yards per carry, and 68.1 yards per game.

Over the course of his career, RM carried the ball 847 times for 3480 yards. He averaged 4.1 ypc, and 63.3 yards per game.

Do the math. An equal number of games does not give RM more yards than WP. Sorry.

RM does have more touchdowns, 29 to 24. But for WPs first two years here, we had a guy named Jerome Bettis on the roster, who was getting the bulk of the opportunities when we got close to the goal line. If we'd had a Bettis playing for two of RMs years, he might have a few less TDs as well.

I believe the stats show that RM was a better receiver--but not by much. WP had 84 receptions over his career, an average of 1.1 per game, for 697 yards. RM has had 75, an average of 1.4 per game, for 660 yards.

As far as games missed due to injury--you seem to think that gives WP an unfair advantage. It could be argued that it shows he was more durable than RM.

In at least one category, RM is far ahead of WP: boneheaded tweets.:D

Hey Bradshaw...you may want to go back and read the original post here. There wasnt any mention of yards per game or yards per rushing attempt. What I had to say pertained to the original post. There were more stats given than just rushing stats. But I get it.....

RuthlessBurgher
12-05-2012, 03:03 PM
That is the point. The Lions offense still wasn't that good with one of the fastest speed backs as a feature back. You cannot have a consistant offense when your RB gets 1 or 2 yards a carry then rips off a 50 yarder, ends with 100 yards. You need a chain mover that can rip off the occasional 20 yard gallop like Dwyer vs. the Ravens running for 16 on a TD run.

The Lions offense wasn't that good?

Check out 1995...

Barry ran for 1500 yards (plus nearly 400 more yards receiving) and 12 total TD's.
Herman Moore had 123 catches for 1686 yards and 14 TD's.
Brett Perriman had 108 catches for 1488 yards and 9 TD's.
Johnnie Morton had 44 catches for 590 yards and 8 TD's.

...and this was all in an offense led by SCOTT MITCHELL at QB.

Sure, they were by no means a dominant team (only 1 playoff win during the Barry Sanders era), but the offense was good enough to lead them to playoff births in 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, and then again in 1999 (the first season after Barry's abrupt retirement).

Mister Pittsburgh
12-05-2012, 04:26 PM
The Lions offense wasn't that good?

Check out 1995...

Barry ran for 1500 yards (plus nearly 400 more yards receiving) and 12 total TD's.
Herman Moore had 123 catches for 1686 yards and 14 TD's.
Brett Perriman had 108 catches for 1488 yards and 9 TD's.
Johnnie Morton had 44 catches for 590 yards and 8 TD's.

...and this was all in an offense led by SCOTT MITCHELL at QB.

Sure, they were by no means a dominant team (only 1 playoff win during the Barry Sanders era), but the offense was good enough to lead them to playoff births in 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, and then again in 1999 (the first season after Barry's abrupt retirement).

Barry Sanders is obviously a freak and not the norm for that type of RB. Thats why you don't see Montario Hardesty and Dexter McLuster starting as feature backs. The point is with Mendenhall, and Parker once he got his leg injuries and wasn't as fast as a rabbit, is they rarely break off 60 yard runs. They get 30 where Dwyer gets 15 or 20. Not enough to make up for all the 1 yard carries they would get cause they went down on first sneeze.