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View Full Version : If Ben can't go: You start Batch or Hoyer?



Ghost
11-26-2012, 01:52 PM
After watching Batch this week would you give him the nod against Baltimore and assume (and hope) the RB's don't fumble the game away and another week in practice would get enough rust off to prevent 3 int's and get a possible victory? Or would you give Hoyer a shot after 2 weeks of learning the playbook, thinking, it can't be a worse showing and they can always go to Batch if he's overwhelmed?

Hoyer was an undrafted FA out of Michigan St (where he was Honarable Mention All Big Ten in 2007). He appeared in 13 games for the pats from 2009 - 2011 and was 27 of 43 for 286 yards. I TD - I INT.

BigRob
11-26-2012, 01:54 PM
No question you start Batch. Hoyer is **** and knows **** about the offense. I bet Charlie is better this week. I have a feeling we will trot a duct taped Big Ben out there.

Jooser
11-26-2012, 02:17 PM
I agree Rob, you could read the "ol crap" look all over Ben's face yesterday.

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Batch. Charlie Batch. (I had to give him the James Bond treatment, because just saying Batch was deemed too short).

fezziwig
11-26-2012, 02:25 PM
Many ticked off fans have phoned into the radio station " The Fan wanting to know why the new guy didn't play, will he play this week yada, yada, yada. Why do people always feel theres a miracle QB on the bench ? Of course you start Batch this Ravens game. The new guy doesn't know the offense, doesn't have a clue yet what this team is about. Batch has probably gotten more in tune with the Browns game and so has Haley probably. Give Batch, Haley another chance. Best chance these guy have would be, " don't turn the ball over. "

Slapstick
11-26-2012, 02:38 PM
Batch knows the team, knows the offense and still threw three INTs...

Hoyer couldn't do worse...

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Is "Johnny Football" from TX A&M eligible ... during his freshman year!? He plays just like a mini-Ben!!

Shawn
11-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Batch knows the team, knows the offense and still threw three INTs...

Hoyer couldn't do worse...

Thank you...a voice of reason. Knowing the O, Batch looked horrific. He can't make the throws...he has nothing left. At least Hoyer can make all the throws. Give him a limited PB and take your chances. You can not start Batch again.

phillyesq
11-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Batch and it isn't close.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Hoyer. No question in my mind. The offense is just as limited with Batch in the lineup because of his lack of physical abilities. I've always liked Batch but old age happens.

The offense was unbelievably painful to watch again. It was VERY conservative and predictable for various reasons. The Browns D showed Charlie ZERO respect as a passer.

Can anyone honestly say that Hoyer would do any worse than 11% (1 of 9) on 3rd down conversions?

SidSmythe
11-26-2012, 03:20 PM
Seriously?? Hoyer comes in on Wednesday and is expected to play??

Maybe we should have started BURRESS while we were at it.

Batch is it people....he's our best option right now. We are talking QB here, not a kicker!

steelz09
11-26-2012, 03:26 PM
Fine, put Batch in.

By the 2nd quarter, Hoyer will probably be playing because Batch will get hurt. The Ravens will stack the LOS like the Browns did because they had ZERO respect for Batch. The Steelers will play it safe, be very conservative because even the coaching staff doesn't have any faith in Batch's physical ability anymore.

Batch will be put in 3rd and long situations. The Ravens will pin their ears back on 3rd down causing numerous sacks, turnovers and likely Batch getting hurt.

flippy
11-26-2012, 03:34 PM
Check Down Charlie

Sword
11-26-2012, 03:35 PM
I say give Hoyer a shot...what worst could happen after yesterdays game...

SidSmythe
11-26-2012, 03:51 PM
I say give Hoyer a shot...what worst could happen after yesterdays game...

Ummmm... 9 for 27 ... 110 yards, 0 TDs & 3 int's??

feltdizz
11-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Batch knows the team, knows the offense and still threw three INTs...

Hoyer couldn't do worse...

1 pick 6 by Hoyer would be worse than Batch's 3 TO's... especially if the RB's have another hot potato game.

Slapstick
11-26-2012, 03:57 PM
I know that Batch will probably start if Ben can't go...

But, honestly, how much worse could it be?

Would the game plan be more conservative? How could it possibly be?

Until last week, Charlie had barely any reps in practice...he looked like that after a full week...

Are you telling me that Hoyer couldn't complete passes to Heath Miller?

Once you are down to the #3 QB in a new offense, there isn't much difference between that #3 QB and a FA off the street...

SidSmythe
11-26-2012, 04:03 PM
I know that Batch will probably start if Ben can't go...

But, honestly, how much worse could it be?

Would the game plan be more conservative? How could it possibly be?

Until last week, Charlie had barely any reps in practice...he looked like that after a full week...

Are you telling me that Hoyer couldn't complete passes to Heath Miller?

Once you are down to the #3 QB in a new offense, there isn't much difference between that #3 QB and a FA off the street...

Sure Hoyer could complete some passes to MILLER, but he'd also stare him down and maybe even get him ROCKED by a LB.

I agree that a #3 is just a body, but CHARLIE BATCH won some games the year Ben got suspended didn't he?? He gives you your best chance to win...anyone who doesn't agree with that is DELUSIONAL to the Nth Degree.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 04:53 PM
Sure Hoyer could complete some passes to MILLER, but he'd also stare him down and maybe even get him ROCKED by a LB.

I agree that a #3 is just a body, but CHARLIE BATCH won some games the year Ben got suspended didn't he?? He gives you your best chance to win...anyone who doesn't agree with that is DELUSIONAL to the Nth Degree.

Rocked by a LB? You mean the same our #2 (Leftwich) got him rocked?

Batch and Leftwich have nothing left in the tank. I thought Leftwich would have something but he proved inadequate.

What some are failing to realize is that it's Batch's physical abilities that are the problem. Does he understand the offense. Surely. Does he understand defenses? Sure thing.

The problem is that he doesn't have the zing to throw the ball and make throws that are required in this league anymore. It sucks but it's just the reality. Your playbook is limited with Batch throwing the ball. It's not because of his mental capacity, his preparation or understanding of the offense. It's simply because he doesn't have the arm to make the required throws anymore.

What is a open WR is the NFL is not open to Batch anymore. He doesn't have the arm strength to fit the ball into tight spaces.

He doesn't have the arm to throw the ball deep down field anymore.

Even on out patterns, the ball is "floating".

It sucks but that is just the reality for Batch.

Batch's playbook will be just as limited as Hoyer because of his arm.

Shawn
11-26-2012, 05:47 PM
I mean do we win with either QB? I think not. I would rather give Hoyer some game time experience...take a chance. What I know for sure is we cant win with Batch.

SidSmythe
11-26-2012, 06:00 PM
I mean do we win with either QB? I think not. I would rather give Hoyer some game time experience...take a chance. What I know for sure is we cant win with Batch.

I'm not saying BATCH is the man. BUT right now, don't you think he's our best option to WIN (not just gain experience?)
I am sure the coaches will evaluate HOYER's knowledge of the offense, but right now BATCH is the best prepared QB we have until Ben gets back.

I'm as happy as anyone we got a potential YOUNG QB, but I wouldn't throw him to the wolves this soon.

ikestops85
11-26-2012, 06:05 PM
Batch, Batch and more Batch. It's silly to say a guys career is over based on one game. Sorta like the people that were throwing dirt on LeBeau's grave earlier this season. :stirpot Batch's arm strength is not much weaker than it was a couple of years ago. His timing was off against the Browns. This happens when you don't play meaningful minutes for a couple of years. Hopefully he gets it back against a weak Raven secondary.

Is this season starting to remind anybody of 2005? I'm starting to get that dejavu sorta feeling. :tt2

DBR96A
11-26-2012, 06:06 PM
Hoyer was an undrafted FA out of Michigan St (where he was Honarable Mention All Big Ten in 2007). He appeared in 13 games for the pats from 2009 - 2011 and was 27 of 43 for 286 yards. I TD - I INT.
If you are going to use Roman numerals for the small numbers, then you have to use them for the big numbers too. Your sentence should read as follows:

"Hoyer was an undrafted free agent out of Michigan State (where he was Honrable Mention All-Big Ten in MMVII). He appeared in XIII games for the Patriots from MMIX to MMXI, and was XXVII of XLIII for CCLXXXVI yards, I TD, and I INT."

Much better.

SidSmythe
11-26-2012, 06:12 PM
If you are going to use Roman numerals for the small numbers, then you have to use them for the big numbers too. Your sentence should read as follows:

"Hoyer was an undrafted free agent out of Michigan State (where he was Honrable Mention All-Big Ten in MMVII). He appeared in XIII games for the Patriots from MMIX to MMXI, and was XXVII of XLIII for CCLXXXVI yards, I TD, and I INT."

Much better.

Especially when speaking about a Michigan State Spartan!!

flippy
11-26-2012, 06:21 PM
Especially when speaking about a Michigan State Spartan!!

Plaxico Burress Ince spiked a live ball I time in the middle of the field during his Ist season when the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted him in the Ist round with their Ist pick. So nice of the Steelers to give Plax a IInd chance. I'm not using anything bigger than III because it confuses me. So I'll predict Plax will score more than III TDs and have more than III catches this season. So far, I important PI. Wonder if he'll get III + III + II TDs like last year? or will he get I, II, III, or III+ more? I thing at a time. I game at a time. I hate getting ahead of myself.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-26-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm not using anything bigger than III because it confuses me.

What will you do if this thread continues on to a IVth page?

steelz09
11-26-2012, 09:22 PM
Batch, Batch and more Batch. It's silly to say a guys career is over based on one game. Sorta like the people that were throwing dirt on LeBeau's grave earlier this season. :stirpot Batch's arm strength is not much weaker than it was a couple of years ago. His timing was off against the Browns. This happens when you don't play meaningful minutes for a couple of years. Hopefully he gets it back against a weak Raven secondary.

Is this season starting to remind anybody of 2005? I'm starting to get that dejavu sorta feeling. :tt2

So does that mean we can keep Batch and have him play until he's 62 and collecting SS.... he might play poorly but since it's only 1 game, we'll give him another shot. When is enough, enough already.

SteelCrazy
11-26-2012, 09:23 PM
Why on God's green earth would you even entertain the possibility of starting Batch after the performance he had against the 2-8 Browns? We gave them the ball 7 times and they still only beat us by 6! Its because our D is playing lights out ansd they did so against the Ravens last week. Yes, Hoyer doesnt know the Offense and has only been on the team for a week, but the guy is an NFL QB. He can adapt a lot easier then what some of you think. This isnt rocket science, its football and the last I looked it is still played, for the most part, the same way it was played in 1930. Hoyer was able to grasp the Pats offense, which is similar to Haley's, so he'll not have many misunderstandings, except for the names of the plays, in ours. Batch is finished and will be dropped after this season and in my opinion should be cut right now. Pick up another QB and get on with this season.

If Batch starts against the Ravens we will lose by 2 td's or more. The Ravens play a lot better at home then they do on the road. We have to score at least 24 to win this game and Chuck isnt going to get us there. Not even CLOSE!

steelz09
11-26-2012, 09:28 PM
Why on God's green earth would you even entertain the possibility of starting Batch after the performance he had against the 2-8 Browns? We gave them the ball 7 times and they still only beat us by 6! Its because our D is playing lights out ansd they did so against the Ravens last week. Yes, Hoyer doesnt know the Offense and has only been on the team for a week, but the guy is an NFL QB. He can adapt a lot easier then what some of you think. This isnt rocket science, its football and the last I looked it is still played, for the most part, the same way it was played in 1930. Hoyer was able to grasp the Pats offense, which is similar to Haley's, so he'll not have many misunderstandings, except for the names of the plays, in ours. Batch is finished and will be dropped after this season and in my opinion should be cut right now. Pick up another QB and get on with this season.

If Batch starts against the Ravens we will lose by 2 td's or more. The Ravens play a lot better at home then they do on the road. We have to score at least 24 to win this game and Chuck isnt going to get us there. Not even CLOSE!

But... But... he knows the offense. lol. Finally, a voice of reason. How long are we going to continue with our ancient QBs that can't play anymore. It's been a failure of this organization as a whole.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 09:33 PM
I would rather the Steelers not show up and just add a loss to their record than go to Baltimore, start Batch and get embarrassed again which is likely to happen if Batch has to start.

At least that way we can walk away without injuries.

tiproast
11-26-2012, 09:42 PM
If you are going to use Roman numerals for the small numbers, then you have to use them for the big numbers too. Your sentence should read as follows:

"Hoyer was an undrafted free agent out of Michigan State (where he was Honrable Mention All-Big Ten in MMVII). He appeared in XIII games for the Patriots from MMIX to MMXI, and was XXVII of XLIII for CCLXXXVI yards, I TD, and I INT."

Much better.

Would have been perfect if you had mentioned that he played in the Big X conference. :D

SidSmythe
11-26-2012, 09:42 PM
What will you do if this thread continues on to a IVth page?

yeah, obviously he's never watched the WHOLE Rocky series!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-26-2012, 10:01 PM
Sorry guys...There should not be any Batch defenders after what we just witnessed. No amount of practice, chemistry, or knowledge of the offense will fix or should keep Batch here. He has a dead arm. To make it twice as bad, he still believes in his abilities. Anyone with any football experience knows the problems Batch creates now when he is under center from here on out. Game plans are simple. I like Batch and what he did for the organization....But is time for someone in this organization to tell him he is done. Given the QB situation...That conversation won't wait until after this season. If BB looks to be out again, be Dam sure the staff is scurrying to get Hoyer in the film room, in the classroom, and increased reps.

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2012, 10:04 PM
Would have been perfect if you had mentioned that he played in the Big X conference. :D

:lol: He probably didn't know how to write it because the Big X hasn't had X schools in quite a while, with Penn State added as the XIth a couple of decades ago, Nebraska as the XIIth a couple of years ago, and Maryland and Rutgers soon to be the XIIIth and XIVth in a couple of years from now.

Vindrow
11-26-2012, 10:06 PM
So, those that want Charlie to start against the Ravens if Ben can't...I guess you want Charlie back next year for back up because he knows the offense?

Look, Charlie has been there for this team for years and has done an good job as back-up, but he just doesn't have the arm anymore. The Browns game just proved that he was lucky to throw a ball 30 yards with any accuracy.

Let Hoyer have a shot he couldn't do much worse.

papillon
11-26-2012, 10:10 PM
You guys are actually asking how much worse could it be? There's a lot worse that can happen from the quarterback position, Charlie didn't throw a pick 6. Check down Charlie would be fine with me thank you, I'll take 3 or 4 yards per play, stay out of obvious passing situations and play field position. The defense has Flacco's number and he's going to play as poorly as he did the first go round. Field position, take your shot when its available, run the ball and good special teams play and the Steelers can steal the game. They can't get behind or put Batch in obvious passing situations and if he is in those situations then run the ball. A punt will be a positive play for the Steelers this weekend.

Pappy

fordfixer
11-26-2012, 10:11 PM
So does that mean we can keep Batch and have him play until he's 62 and collecting SS.... he might play poorly but since it's only 1 game, we'll give him another shot. When is enough, enough already.
Sorry steelz but Charlie's birth date is after 1960 so he can't receive full SS until he turns 67 :p

Chadman
11-26-2012, 10:37 PM
Chadman is going to go with Batch here, but mainly because it's harsh to pin the whole Offensive debacle on Charlie.

Ok, no doubt about it, he was off. And 3 INT's is bad. And you guys are right- the arm isn't what it used to be.

But 5 fumbles? The running game is where the Offensive reliance HAS to be with Ben & Lefty down. And the RB's didn't only fail to step up, they ran away. Mendenhall, Redman, Dwyer & Rainey need to get their butts kicked, and then put the responsibility of keeping the Offense out of 3rd & long spots, so that Charlie can go about being Charlie.

Is Hoyer a better QB? Possibly. But Batch, as it's been pointed out, is more familiar with the Offense. The Steelers won't score 24 to beat the Ravens. With Batch at the helm, they are, at best, probably a 17 point team.

Keep the ball in hand, don't give turnovers, play good ST's. That'll be the key to Offensive success. Then let the D do it's thing & let Flacco be Flacco. The Ravens did NOTHING on Offense against the Steelers last time- not much will change this time.

No turnovers. That is the key. Don't fumble. And if you can't get too many 3rd downs, make sure the punting game is solid, and ST's give the Ravens no easy yards.

Suisham is the weapon, believe it or not. :)

SteelCrazy
11-26-2012, 11:02 PM
You guys are crazy and its this type of thinking that Tomlin and co. use. Its also the reason we will lose to the Ravens if Batch starts.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 11:33 PM
If Batch starts it just validates that we are playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 11:37 PM
You guys are actually asking how much worse could it be? There's a lot worse that can happen from the quarterback position, Charlie didn't throw a pick 6. Check down Charlie would be fine with me thank you, I'll take 3 or 4 yards per play, stay out of obvious passing situations and play field position. The defense has Flacco's number and he's going to play as poorly as he did the first go round. Field position, take your shot when its available, run the ball and good special teams play and the Steelers can steal the game. They can't get behind or put Batch in obvious passing situations and if he is in those situations then run the ball. A punt will be a positive play for the Steelers this weekend.

Pappy

That is the fundamental problem. He WILL be put in obvious passing downs.

And a punt being a positive playing isn't playing to win. We'll need to score and there is no indication that we'll be able to sustain drives in order to make that happen.

For the record, I've always been a Batch fan. With that being said, it's time to move on. He just can't make the throws anymore.

Wait and see. The Ravens will stack the line with 8 defenders and defend the short passes all game. When it's 3rd and long they will send the house at Charlie. They will basically bait Charlie to throw the ball downfield. Wouldn't you? He'll take a lot of hits, sacks and probably a few INTs. I honestly have a hunch that Batch could get injured. The Ravens defensive gameplan will be as simple as that. It could get ugly for the Steelers.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-27-2012, 12:52 AM
If I were the FO I'd go sign Jeff George or someone right now, because SASF Vegas odds say Batch isn't making through the game if he starts.

RuthlessBurgher
11-27-2012, 01:15 AM
Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch, and Jeff George all have birthdays coming up soon in December or January.

Leftwich turns 33, Batch turns 38, and George turns 45.

SS Laser
11-27-2012, 02:28 AM
I think IF AB is able to play Batch can win. It really looks like this offense needs 2 quick type WR's. Sanders played well but I don't think he is as good as AB. But IF Ben can't go or AB can't go. F it and start the new guy. Lets see what he has. Dixon almost beat the ravens once. Like every one on here the Ravens know what Batch can do (not much). But do they know what Hoyer can do? If the O-line looks and plays the same as the Browns game it won't matter and Batch will get hurt and everyone will get to see Hoyer. Depending on how healthy Ben really is and if he starts he might not finish this game. The Ravens will be bringing the house!

papillon
11-27-2012, 06:33 AM
That is the fundamental problem. He WILL be put in obvious passing downs.

And a punt being a positive playing isn't playing to win. We'll need to score and there is no indication that we'll be able to sustain drives in order to make that happen.

For the record, I've always been a Batch fan. With that being said, it's time to move on. He just can't make the throws anymore.

Wait and see. The Ravens will stack the line with 8 defenders and defend the short passes all game. When it's 3rd and long they will send the house at Charlie. They will basically bait Charlie to throw the ball downfield. Wouldn't you? He'll take a lot of hits, sacks and probably a few INTs. I honestly have a hunch that Batch could get injured. The Ravens defensive gameplan will be as simple as that. It could get ugly for the Steelers.

I think playing the field position game with Batch at quarterback is playing to win. It's playing to win by using your best weapon to win the game, the Steeler defense. He can make the throws he needs to make he was 20 for 34 for 199 yards, if it weren't for the picks it probably would have been good enough to win. Batch isn't a long term solution by any means, but the Steelers don't have to fold up camp because Batch has to play. There's a game plan out there (IMO) that can work with Batch at the controls.

I like the Steelers' chances this week simply because the defense is playing well and the the special teams need to not give up a big plays. Suisham and Butler will be the "go yo" guys this weekend if Ben can't play.

Pappy

Slapstick
11-27-2012, 06:43 AM
You guys are actually asking how much worse could it be? There's a lot worse that can happen from the quarterback position, Charlie didn't throw a pick 6. Check down Charlie would be fine with me thank you, I'll take 3 or 4 yards per play, stay out of obvious passing situations and play field position. The defense has Flacco's number and he's going to play as poorly as he did the first go round. Field position, take your shot when its available, run the ball and good special teams play and the Steelers can steal the game. They can't get behind or put Batch in obvious passing situations and if he is in those situations then run the ball. A punt will be a positive play for the Steelers this weekend.

Pappy

So, how would the game plan be different for Hoyer? It wouldn't...

(Again, I realize that Batch will start...this is just hypothetical)

papillon
11-27-2012, 06:50 AM
So, how would the game plan be different for Hoyer? It wouldn't...

(Again, I realize that Batch will start...this is just hypothetical)

It wouldn't be different, but I have to assume that Batch understands the audible system, that he at least has some chemistry with the receivers and that his knowledge of the playbook is light years ahead of Hoyer. If they give Hoyer a chance I'll support him just as well as I support Batch. I just believe that Batch can win a game for the Steelers, but the Steelers as a whole have to play better than they did this past weekend.

The defense was awesome this past weekend, but if they could have held one of the short TD drives to a FG it would have given a boost to the entire team. There are improvements to be made everywhere for this weekend. The Ravens are one of most flawed 9-2 teams I've seen. Normally, I would be thinking this weekend (9-2 vs 6-5) isn't going to work out well for the Steelers, but based on watching the Ravens the past two weekends the Steelers have a shot with Batch, IMO. Of course, until its officially over I always believe the Steelers will win games and make the playoffs.

Pappy

flippy
11-27-2012, 07:00 AM
yeah, obviously he's never watched the WHOLE Rocky series!

If I went by the Rocky series, 'Balboa' is a Roman numeral. Not sure which one, just know it comes after 'V'.

SteelCrazy
11-27-2012, 07:18 AM
Chemistry with the receivers? Pap, you have lost your mind! It was evident Sunday that Batch had Zero chemistry with our WR's. Hopefully Batch just had a bad game and plays better because thats all we can hope for if Ben doesnt play.

Slapstick
11-27-2012, 07:49 AM
It wouldn't be different, but I have to assume that Batch understands the audible system, that he at least has some chemistry with the receivers and that his knowledge of the playbook is light years ahead of Hoyer.

If the backup QB can't actually execute the game plan, whether due to busted ribs or just not having the arm that he used to, knowledge of the offense is irrelevant...

I'm also hoping Batch just had a bad game (along with every RB)...

Sword
11-27-2012, 08:38 AM
There have been plenty of rookie QB that have been given the chance and succeeded big time. After last week why would you not at least give him a chance..
He came in for Brady!!! He has worked with the Elites...
Hell I could run 2 dozen plays from a few days of practicing please...stop making learning a playbook or connecting with a WR is some great obstacle...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-27-2012, 12:40 PM
There is game tape on Batch now. It is done. You will be putting yourself in passing situations on a higher percentage now with Batch in there.

"Blood in the Water" is already on the Ravens message board. Single high safety with man across the board when the Steelers show any "20" personnel grouping or 12 & 13 and heavy run blitz. Single high safety with a soft zone & overload blitz on passing situations. Everyone thinks the injury rate is high??? Just wait now. I can't stress enough what the Browns game just showed the league. The Steelers just showed you can eliminate "down & distance" football when you play call them on defense. Batch on the field makes the defense defend 30 yards vertical..That's it. Defend between the hashes on a zone and jump the sideline routes with heavy blitz. You might as well give Haley a helmet...You would get more out of him.

The Steelers are in BIG trouble if they have to turn to Batch. Sorry guys...Reality sucks on this one. If you are purposing that Batch just sits there & hands off and ONLY pass when he has to...You might as well give the Ravens the play when you come up to the LOS and HOPE they over commit on the play. Even if you only have Hoyer throw 1/2 a dozen go routes to Wallace, Burress, Sanders, etc to show you can...It would have more impact on the offense than Batch being in there. It would be even better to get Johnson back here and throw less than 10 times in the game. I can't believe I'm saying this...Palko gives us a better chance.

Be done with Loyalty...Batch will get over it!

snarky
11-27-2012, 01:05 PM
Batch. Charlie Batch. (I had to give him the James Bond treatment, because just saying Batch was deemed too short).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqA_kvhNROc

hawaiiansteel
11-27-2012, 01:59 PM
Ben throws; Batch still to start

Posted by Teresa Varley on November 27, 2012

Steelers Coach Mike Tomlin was able to deliver some good news on the injury front this week, with some players who have been battling injuries working their way back to playing.

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger threw the ball on Monday and Tomlin said he “Will take steps towards playing this week. We’ll leave the door open.” In addition Byron Leftwich threw some on Monday, but Tomlin made it clear that Charlie Batch is the starting quarterback at this point for Sunday’s game against the Ravens at M&T Bank Stadium.

“Right now Charlie Batch is our quarterback,” said Tomlin. “We are working offensively to put together a plan to complement his strengths. That is our plan until otherwise. These guys will participate in some form or fashion. We’ll let that participation or the result of the participation guide us in terms of their availability as we push to the later part of the week and see where those guys are a little later in the week. As we sit here today we are doing so with Charlie Batch being our quarterback.”

Receiver Antonio Brown is going to practice and at this point is scheduled to play against the Ravens. In addition, safety Troy Polamalu is expected to practice this week and could play on Sunday. Tackle Willie Colon, who missed the Browns game, is improving and has a “strong chance” of playing.

Tackle Mike Adams has been ruled out for Sunday with an ankle injury, and will be replaced by fellow rookie Kelvin Beachum.

http://blog.steelers.com/2012/11/27/ben-throws-batch-still-to-start/

pfelix73
11-27-2012, 02:03 PM
Tomlin mentioned that Hoyer isn't quite up to speed on the playbook, but really should be by the end of the week.....

steelz09
11-27-2012, 02:26 PM
There is game tape on Batch now. It is done. You will be putting yourself in passing situations on a higher percentage now with Batch in there.

"Blood in the Water" is already on the Ravens message board. Single high safety with man across the board when the Steelers show any "20" personnel grouping or 12 & 13 and heavy run blitz. Single high safety with a soft zone & overload blitz on passing situations. Everyone thinks the injury rate is high??? Just wait now. I can't stress enough what the Browns game just showed the league. The Steelers just showed you can eliminate "down & distance" football when you play call them on defense. Batch on the field makes the defense defend 30 yards vertical..That's it. Defend between the hashes on a zone and jump the sideline routes with heavy blitz. You might as well give Haley a helmet...You would get more out of him.

The Steelers are in BIG trouble if they have to turn to Batch. Sorry guys...Reality sucks on this one. If you are purposing that Batch just sits there & hands off and ONLY pass when he has to...You might as well give the Ravens the play when you come up to the LOS and HOPE they over commit on the play. Even if you only have Hoyer throw 1/2 a dozen go routes to Wallace, Burress, Sanders, etc to show you can...It would have more impact on the offense than Batch being in there. It would be even better to get Johnson back here and throw less than 10 times in the game. I can't believe I'm saying this...Palko gives us a better chance.

Be done with Loyalty...Batch will get over it!

I couldn't agree more. The Ravens can be beat down the field with our WRs. That will back them off the LOS and I think Drywer can run on them. So, what's the problem?

With Batch, we don't have the passing attack to back the Ravens off the LOS. They will show him zero respect as a passer like the Browns did and the outcome will be exactly as you indicated.

steelz09
11-27-2012, 02:33 PM
I think playing the field position game with Batch at quarterback is playing to win. It's playing to win by using your best weapon to win the game, the Steeler defense. He can make the throws he needs to make he was 20 for 34 for 199 yards, if it weren't for the picks it probably would have been good enough to win. Batch isn't a long term solution by any means, but the Steelers don't have to fold up camp because Batch has to play. There's a game plan out there (IMO) that can work with Batch at the controls.

I like the Steelers' chances this week simply because the defense is playing well and the the special teams need to not give up a big plays. Suisham and Butler will be the "go yo" guys this weekend if Ben can't play.

Pappy

The defense has been outstanding the last 2 games. I won't deny that.

However, you still need to score points to win the game. Even with the turnovers, the Browns were trying to gift wrap us a victory and we STILL couldn't score. The same goes for Leftwich against the Ravens. All he had to do was SOMETHING... ANYTHING and we couldn't. It was disgusting to watch. I still can't believe we lost to the Ravens. Our defense absolutely DOMINATED and we couldn't even get a 1st down. And trust me, it wasn't because of a dominating performance by the Ravens D. It was a VERY poor performance by Leftwich and the coaching staff: Tomlin for not taking Leftwich out and Haley for questionable playing calling. I've really like what Haley has done overall this season but the Ravens game wasn't his best game by any stretch.

lloydroid
11-27-2012, 03:43 PM
Batch knows the team, knows the offense and still threw three INTs...

Hoyer couldn't do worse...

And he has no ability to throw the deep ball....like Balt. won't even have to defend it; he can't get the ball there.

lloydroid
11-27-2012, 03:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqA_kvhNROc

LMAO. Ali G. Priceless.

papillon
11-27-2012, 03:56 PM
The defense has been outstanding the last 2 games. I won't deny that.

However, you still need to score points to win the game. Even with the turnovers, the Browns were trying to gift wrap us a victory and we STILL couldn't score. The same goes for Leftwich against the Ravens. All he had to do was SOMETHING... ANYTHING and we couldn't. It was disgusting to watch. I still can't believe we lost to the Ravens. Our defense absolutely DOMINATED and we couldn't even get a 1st down. And trust me, it wasn't because of a dominating performance by the Ravens D. It was a VERY poor performance by Leftwich and the coaching staff: Tomlin for not taking Leftwich out and Haley for questionable playing calling. I've really like what Haley has done overall this season but the Ravens game wasn't his best game by any stretch.

It's the only way I see it playing out. It may take 2 or 3 offensive series to maneuver into scoring range and deliver points. I didn't say it would be easy, but its the only path to victory that I see. The Steeler defense knows Joe Flacco pretty well and if they get him into situations where his tendencies run in the 70%-80% probability the Steelers will have great success again on defense. He may be able to throw it farther, but he throws it up for grabs a good bit also.

Special teams, defense and enough offense to win the game 17-13 or something similar. It can be done, have faith, maybe a heavy dose of fullback lead running plays and big dose of Dwyer is the ticket, I don't know. I think Charlie steps up this week and delivers a game managing performance and a Steeler victory. He had to be shaking off some rust last week. His number in preseason were okay, I can't believe he's gone that far downhill that fast.

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
11-27-2012, 04:48 PM
And he has no ability to throw the deep ball....like Balt. won't even have to defend it; he can't get the ball there.

Haley will take the deep passes out of his playbook if Batch starts this Sunday, there's really no point in even trying to get the ball to Wallace deep.

lloydroid
11-27-2012, 05:26 PM
Haley will take the deep passes out of his playbook if Batch starts this Sunday, there's really no point in even trying to get the ball to Wallace deep.

And not being able to throw deep is no death sentence. You can still win if you don't have a deep threat. It makes it a little more difficult to rush the ball and throw short, as the field shrinks for the D and they have less ground to defend. But we didn't really have a deep threat with O'Donnell and Kordel - not because they lacked the arm strength, but they just weren't very good at going deep and/or didn't have the WRs to do it. Charlie can throw the medium cross patterns and they can still work. If Brown is back, that will help the success of the medium crossing routes with YACs to move the ball. But, who am I kidding? Balt. at home is gonna be far too much to beat in my opinion. They are a juggernaut at home and we are in a very weakened state.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-28-2012, 01:21 PM
Not showing you can go vertical and not being able to do it are two different things. Playcalling is impacted. Batch can't not only go downfield, but he can't throw the out. There is no zip on the intermediate and his ball can be broke on. That is very bad news between the hashes. WRs are going to take hits...Passes will be defended more...And Ints are waiting to happen. Balls behind are a good sign of a dead arm and that is what I see.

When the Steelers show 21, 22, 12, 13 personnel the Ravens are going to call the defense to the personnel grouping not down & distance. The call will be simple. Single high S, man across the board, & run blitz. CBS Play inside out to take away slant & Jump the out route. Because of the run blitz, Batch may not have enough time to set up and even hit a wide open RB that snuck out in the PA. A smart DC would uncommit the ILB from the RBs off of PA and zone blitz dropping out a DE to the side of the RB release. Ravens actually do that alot. An ILB gets a free run on the QB off of PA and hits him even before he plants his back foot off the fake. The OL who should have picked up the ILB attacks a DL who is dropping out. We have all seen the play. One of our OL standing there with nobody to block looking around as BB is on his A$$. It is a nightmare scenario with Batch & the Ravens because Batch is not capable of making that guy miss or step up and make a play.

So what can the Steelers do to counter? Go 10 or 11 personnel to get them in nickel & dime. Great! Again...1 S & Send 1 more than we could block and squat on the intermediate routes in front of the chains. Yep...Batch is good for 3+ Ints again. <COUGH> Ed Reed. GOD I hope Hoyer has enough of the playbook down by the end of the week to be an option. This isn't the Browns offense. Our defense has been playing lights out but if We turn the ball over 3 or more times to the Ravens they will hang 30+ on us. 3 plays for negative yards & punt won't keep us in this game.

hawaiiansteel
11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
Report: Roethlisberger less than 50% to play

Nov 28

Citing a source with knowledge of Ben Roethlisberger's injuries, ESPN's Bob Holtzman reported Wednesday that "right now there's less than a 50 percent chance" of Big Ben playing in Week 13.

Per Holtzman, Roethlisberger's dislocated rib remains his "biggest issue," and Big Ben isn't convinced that he can throw the football effectively enough to play against the Ravens. The Steelers are still allowing Roethlisberger to "push himself" through practice, and see how his body responds. Holtzman notes that both of Big Ben's injuries -- his sprained shoulder and rib dislocation -- have a "very high risk of reinjury" should Roethlisberger return too soon.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/249419/report-roethlisberger-less-than-50-to-play

flippy
11-28-2012, 03:51 PM
Not showing you can go vertical and not being able to do it are two different things. Playcalling is impacted. Batch can't not only go downfield, but he can't throw the out. There is no zip on the intermediate and his ball can be broke on. That is very bad news between the hashes. WRs are going to take hits...Passes will be defended more...And Ints are waiting to happen. Balls behind are a good sign of a dead arm and that is what I see.

When the Steelers show 21, 22, 12, 13 personnel the Ravens are going to call the defense to the personnel grouping not down & distance. The call will be simple. Single high S, man across the board, & run blitz. CBS Play inside out to take away slant & Jump the out route. Because of the run blitz, Batch may not have enough time to set up and even hit a wide open RB that snuck out in the PA. A smart DC would uncommit the ILB from the RBs off of PA and zone blitz dropping out a DE to the side of the RB release. Ravens actually do that alot. An ILB gets a free run on the QB off of PA and hits him even before he plants his back foot off the fake. The OL who should have picked up the ILB attacks a DL who is dropping out. We have all seen the play. One of our OL standing there with nobody to block looking around as BB is on his A$$. It is a nightmare scenario with Batch & the Ravens because Batch is not capable of making that guy miss or step up and make a play.

So what can the Steelers do to counter? Go 10 or 11 personnel to get them in nickel & dime. Great! Again...1 S & Send 1 more than we could block and squat on the intermediate routes in front of the chains. Yep...Batch is good for 3+ Ints again. <COUGH> Ed Reed. GOD I hope Hoyer has enough of the playbook down by the end of the week to be an option. This isn't the Browns offense. Our defense has been playing lights out but if We turn the ball over 3 or more times to the Ravens they will hang 30+ on us. 3 plays for negative yards & punt won't keep us in this game.

How bout we just roll 50 personnel?

Since Batch can't make any throw other than a checkdown to a RB, let's just load up the backfield. And maybe it would keep us from fumbling because the Ravens would never know who had the ball.

RuthlessBurgher
11-28-2012, 04:30 PM
How bout we just roll 50 personnel?

Since Batch can't make any throw other than a checkdown to a RB, let's just load up the backfield. And maybe it would keep us from fumbling because the Ravens would never know who had the ball.

Heh heh...5 o-linemen, then a QB, then a RB behind each lineman. Screw the wishbone...we could run the flying V from the Mighty Ducks movies. :p

http://krissacurran.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/mighty-ducks-flying-v.png

papillon
11-28-2012, 07:44 PM
Chemistry with the receivers? Pap, you have lost your mind! It was evident Sunday that Batch had Zero chemistry with our WR's. Hopefully Batch just had a bad game and plays better because thats all we can hope for if Ben doesnt play.

Well, then with Hoyer receivers might run a hook and Hoyer throws the out for a pick 6. He looked bad, but starting a gut who's been in town for less than two weeks is folly, IMO. If Batch and the receivers weren't on the same page, then Hoyer and the receivers wouldn't even be reading the same book.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
11-29-2012, 02:39 PM
Ben Roethlisberger’s Sunday status will come down to arm strength
Posted by Josh Alper on November 29, 2012, 1:35 PM EST

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was able to practice in a limited fashion on Wednesday, keeping hope alive that he’ll be able to play against the Ravens in Baltimore this Sunday.

Getting back to work didn’t leave Roethlisberger with any better idea of whether or not that will happen, however. Mark Kaboly of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reports that Roethlisberger said Thursday that he’s still uncertain about his ability to play. Per Roethlisberger, the decision will be based on his arm strength and only his arm strength because he isn’t currently having any other problems that will keep him from playing.

With one more day of practice to go on Friday before the Steelers have to decide on Roethlisberger’s injury report designation and no real reason to announce anything too long before the start of the game, there’s a good chance we’ll go into the weekend without knowing the identity of the Steelers quarterback.

While Roethlisberger isn’t concerned about the rib injury that contributed to his absence, he will be taking some extra precautions if he does play. Kaboly reports that he’ll have extra padding around his rib/heart area that will include Kevlar to protect against re-injury to the rib he dislocated.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/29/ben-roethlisbergers-sunday-status-will-come-down-to-arm-strength/

Slapstick
11-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Well, then with Hoyer receivers might run a hook and Hoyer throws the out for a pick 6. He looked bad, but starting a gut who's been in town for less than two weeks is folly, IMO. If Batch and the receivers weren't on the same page, then Hoyer and the receivers wouldn't even be reading the same book.

Pappy

It wouldn't be very different from Charlie starting, except Hoyer probably has a stronger arm...

SidSmythe
12-03-2012, 02:46 PM
BUMP: So if Ben can't play next Sunday, do we go with BATCH or HOYER?? :p

flippy
12-03-2012, 02:49 PM
BUMP: So if Ben can't play next Sunday, do we go with BATCH or HOYER?? :p

Chuck's clearly working with those Angels in the Endzone folks. Gotta stick with God's QB.

papillon
12-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Why on God's green earth would you even entertain the possibility of starting Batch after the performance he had against the 2-8 Browns? We gave them the ball 7 times and they still only beat us by 6! Its because our D is playing lights out ansd they did so against the Ravens last week. Yes, Hoyer doesnt know the Offense and has only been on the team for a week, but the guy is an NFL QB. He can adapt a lot easier then what some of you think. This isnt rocket science, its football and the last I looked it is still played, for the most part, the same way it was played in 1930. Hoyer was able to grasp the Pats offense, which is similar to Haley's, so he'll not have many misunderstandings, except for the names of the plays, in ours. Batch is finished and will be dropped after this season and in my opinion should be cut right now. Pick up another QB and get on with this season.

If Batch starts against the Ravens we will lose by 2 td's or more. The Ravens play a lot better at home then they do on the road. We have to score at least 24 to win this game and Chuck isnt going to get us there. Not even CLOSE!

:p It's all good.

Pappy

papillon
12-03-2012, 03:38 PM
Chemistry with the receivers? Pap, you have lost your mind! It was evident Sunday that Batch had Zero chemistry with our WR's. Hopefully Batch just had a bad game and plays better because thats all we can hope for if Ben doesnt play.

:p It's all good my friend.

Pappy

SidSmythe
12-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Some real experts we have on this board I must say. It's all good!! LOL

papillon
12-03-2012, 03:43 PM
Some real experts we have on this board I must say. It's all good!! LOL

Sometimes even us blind squirrels find a nut. :p I'm glad I was the blind squirrel this week!

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
12-03-2012, 04:43 PM
Yesterday, we were going up against a Harbaughian level of douchebaggery, and Tomlin stepped up to the plate by screwing over Coach Massengill at the post-game handshake.

This coming weekend, we will face the douchetastic Phil Rivers. Charlie Batch is simply too nice of a guy to match that degree of douchiosity, so we must start Hoyer this week instead, since he spent 3 seasons studying at the douche altar of Brady and Belichick.

flippy
12-03-2012, 07:58 PM
Yesterday, we were going up against a Harbaughian level of douchebaggery, and Tomlin stepped up to the plate by screwing over Coach Massengill at the post-game handshake.

This coming weekend, we will face the douchetastic Phil Rivers. Charlie Batch is simply too nice of a guy to match that degree of douchiosity, so we must start Hoyer this week instead, since he spent 3 seasons studying at the douche altar of Brady and Belichick.

Todd Haley was a douche too until he came to Pittsburgh. Coming to Pittsburgh absolved him from all his sins.

SteelCrazy
12-03-2012, 08:12 PM
:p It's all good my friend.

Pappy

I see you like to point out my faults, but you missed my "owning up" in the other thread???? Come on Pap...don't bruise your own back. :Bow:D

SteelCrazy
12-03-2012, 10:48 PM
really?....

eniparadoxgma
12-04-2012, 06:41 PM
I would rather the Steelers not show up and just add a loss to their record than go to Baltimore, start Batch and get embarrassed again which is likely to happen if Batch has to start.


Any given Sunday, man. Any given Sunday.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-04-2012, 10:35 PM
A terrific effort on his part. Great gameplan by Haley too. It was far from flawless but he gave everything he had at possibly his last game on the field. Great time to be wrong for one weekend. Now will the real Charlie Batch please stand up. Oh God help us if BB isn't ready. Hoyer please be ready!

After Ravens game my conclusion changed some. Still a dead arm...AND May need glasses.

hawaiiansteel
12-05-2012, 08:43 PM
It's a green light for Ben Roethlisberger

Jim Corbett, USA TODAY
December 5. 2012

PITTSBURGH -- Ben Roethlisberger sat at his locker before going out to test his injured throwing shoulder and healing ribs during Wednesday's practice, confident he's healed enough to play Sunday against the San Diego Chargers.

"I'm hoping,'' Roethlisberger told USA TODAY Sports. "I can play with pain. I'll give it everything I've got. Pain is not an issue for me. It's about performance and how hard can I throw the ball? How far can I throw the ball?

"I feel a lot better. We'll see how it goes. "

Apparently, it went pretty well. Offensive coordinator Todd Haley said Roethlisberger took plenty of reps with first team.

"It's exciting, as long as there's no setbacks, to have him back,'' Haley told USA TODAY Sports. "He's obviously such a big, big part of this team.''

Coach Mike Tomlin called it "a positive day," and added, "He made all the necessary throws.''

Roethlisberger's dislocated rib has healed enough where it is no longer a threat to puncture his aorta as was the case initially after he sustained a hit in a Nov. 12 win against the Kansas City Chiefs.

Three weeks ago, Roethlisberger told Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis before Pittsburgh's 13-10 loss to the Ravens that it was "killing'' him not to be able to play. Thing is, it could have killed him -- literally -- to have played the past three games.

"From what I understand, the rib was, it was stable in the back, but in the front, if I took the wrong shot, it could puncture the wrong way,'' Roethlisberger said.

"According to the training personnel staff, doctors, they don't feel the stability is an issue. I'm sure that first time I hit the ground it's going to be a little -- I may lay there for a second or so to make sure I can feel everything in my chest. According to them, everything is stable.

"I can play with pain.''

It seems fitting that Roethlisberger's return to practice coincided with the return to practice of Lewis from a torn triceps suffered in October. Roethlisberger and Lewis had a heart-to-heart conversation about missing the fierce Baltimore-Pittsburgh rivalry for the first time during their careers three weeks ago.

"Ray came up to me before the game and we had a long conversation on the field,'' Roethlisberger said, referencing that Nov. 18 loss. "I have a lot of respect for that guy. I gave him a hug and he goes, 'Who would have ever thought that, this game, neither one of us would play?' I said, 'I know. It's not the same.' Just acknowledging the admiration we have for each other. It's great to see him back out there (practicing today).''

There's a reason Roethlisberger wants to be back Sunday. The Steelers (7-5) own the same record they did in 2005, when they won their last four regular season games, then ran the table in the playoffs to win Super Bowl XL against Seattle in Detroit -- the first of two Super Bowls with Roethlisberger.

"It's about when you get hot and come together as a team,'' Roethlisberger said. "Our defense is starting to get hot and click in. We're starting to put it together. All it takes is one win and then you just roll with it.''

Charlie Batch, who turned 38 Wednesday, delivered a 23-20 win against Baltimore -- but all the talk around the league is about the rookie crop, led by Robert Griffin III and Andrew Luck.

"It makes me laugh a little bit because people are talking about these rookie quarterbacks and they should be talked about, they're great players,'' Roethlisberger said. "My thing has always been, 'Let's wait for two or three years to see if they're great yet. They've done some great things. And they have all the potential in the world to do it.

"I'm sure if you go ask Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or myself, any of those veteran guys, we'll say we're going to keep doing what we do. Let all the press go to those guys and we'll just try and win games."

He then warned the rookie quarterbacks: "No question about it, it is a completely different ballgame when you get to the playoffs."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/steelers/2012/12/05/pittsburgh-steelers-ben-roethlisberger-ready-to-return-vs-san-diego-chargers-rib-aorta/1748875/

SidSmythe
12-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Gotta go with the Hot Hand Here. Start Charlie Batch!!! :p