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View Full Version : ? Can anyone explain Tomlin's decision to accept the 3rd down holding penalty....



pittpete
11-25-2012, 09:14 PM
3rd and 21 and the Browns get maybe 12 yards.
Holding called on the Browns and Tomlin accepts the penalty backing them up and making it 3rd and 31.
Am I losing it or does this not make any sense?
So many things could've happened in this scenario giving the Browns and automatic 1st down.
I'msill shaking my head over this...:HeadBanger

flippy
11-25-2012, 09:17 PM
3rd and 21 and the Browns get maybe 12 yards.
Holding called on the Browns and Tomlin accepts the penalty backing them up and making it 3rd and 31.
Am I losing it or does this not make any sense?
So many things could've happened in this scenario giving the Browns and automatic 1st down.
I'msill shaking my head over this...:HeadBanger

That was the worst call ever. The only thing I can think is he trusted his offense so little today, he thought the extra 10 yards might help in some way?

DukieBoy
11-25-2012, 09:18 PM
No.

Is anyone watching the Grey Cup live tonight? They have Gordon Lightfoot on their halftime show.

pittpete
11-25-2012, 09:21 PM
Even the players on the field were confused.
Did Tomlin think it was 2nd down?
Also after every penalty he's screaming out "what number,what number?"
Mike, they just called out the number are you deaf?
Tomlin seems to make at least 1 mind-boggling decision each week.
Is he really just a guy who likes to use big words to make himself look bright?

Steel Life
11-25-2012, 09:24 PM
They must've thinking field position since the offense was having trouble moving the ball. But if you're looking past all the turnovers, penalties & poor QB to rant on Tomlin then you really are missing the point - the players lost this game with their awful play.

papillon
11-25-2012, 09:26 PM
The offense stunk today period. He's hoping with a 3rd and 21 the Browns offense does something really bad and the Steelers get a turnover, or another sack moving them back again, he was trying to give his offense that he knew wasn't sustaining a long drive as short a field as possible.

Getting the ball back with Ben under center, yes it would have been stupid to accept the penalty, but with Batch and the offense today he was trying to help them by taking every yard possible.

Pappy

Steelhere10
11-25-2012, 09:27 PM
They must've thinking field position since the offense was having trouble moving the ball. But if you're looking past all the turnovers, penalties & poor QB to rant on Tomlin then you really are missing the point - the players lost this game with their awful play.Watching that offense led by Batch , he needed all the yards he could get .

pittpete
11-25-2012, 09:31 PM
But if you're looking past all the turnovers, penalties & poor QB to rant on Tomlin then you really are missing the point
How the hell could anyone look past the pathetic stink on the field today?
Rant on Tomlin?
I pointed out a mind boggling decision by a veteran head coach
You guys are quick to defend Tomlin.
This is Tomlin's team and right now this team is consistently playing poorly.

SidSmythe
11-25-2012, 09:50 PM
I agreed with this call. I was hoping the Browns would either do another predictable run and lose more field position with the 10 yards or have their rookie QB throw downfield and force one into coverage. We needed a big play on DEFENSE and I thought it was worth the risk to try to make something happen.

squidkid
11-25-2012, 09:58 PM
that was so incredibly stupid to accept that penalty. my 14 year old son says, 'dad, why would he accept that penalty, its fourth down and they have to punt to us. what if we get called for a PI the next play and it gives them an automatic first down'?
tomlin is a f2cking idiot

srk173
11-25-2012, 09:59 PM
I found it odd but on a side note calling the third timeout before the two minute warning was beyond absurd. Burn your last timeout to save 45 seconds or so and handcuff yourself from challenging. I would take one timeout with two minutes to go over 2:30 to go with no timeouts. You can control the clock better with a timeout left. There is no control of the two minute warning. Coaching today all around was below poor.

chiken
11-25-2012, 10:44 PM
The defense had a better chance of Scoring than the OFFense. Tomlin was trying to win the game with the best unit he had on the field

phillyesq
11-25-2012, 11:20 PM
The offense stunk today period. He's hoping with a 3rd and 21 the Browns offense does something really bad and the Steelers get a turnover, or another sack moving them back again, he was trying to give his offense that he knew wasn't sustaining a long drive as short a field as possible.

Getting the ball back with Ben under center, yes it would have been stupid to accept the penalty, but with Batch and the offense today he was trying to help them by taking every yard possible.

Pappy

Well said, Pappy.

The defense was the better unit today and it wasn't even close. There was a better chance of something positive happening with the D on the field than the O.

Sword
11-26-2012, 09:11 AM
Because, Tomlin is not as good a coach as he is made out to be.....

Continues to make bad calls week in week out. And his usual excuse is.. "The standard is the standard" I think, if I here that one more time I'm going
to throw up.

Starlifter
11-26-2012, 09:23 AM
I thought it was right to accept the penalty. we couldn't move the ball down the field at all and that was a free ten yards. The defense was playing well. Yes, there was a risk of a stupid 5 yard hands to the face automatic first down - but fortunately the browns obliged us by not throwing.

I think by that point in the game and the putrid stench coming from the offense, the game plan was clearly out the window and tomlin was forced to try anything the put the ball closer to the goal line.

feltdizz
11-26-2012, 09:28 AM
I thought it was obvious why he accepted the penalty...

one less play on offense is one less chance to give the ball back.

birtikidis
11-26-2012, 09:31 AM
Mainly it was because our offense couldn't move the ball ten yards. With a decent return we would have almost been in FG position.

Eich
11-26-2012, 09:45 AM
Because, Tomlin is not as good a coach as he is made out to be.....

Continues to make bad calls week in week out. And his usual excuse is.. "The standard is the standard" I think, if I here that one more time I'm going
to throw up.

Have you read any of the explanations in this thread? They're dead on. At the time Tomlin made the call, I was scratching my head for a second and then the obvious dawned on me... Tomlin had ZERO confidence in the offense at that point in the game and complete confidence in the defense. So, he kept the defense on the field for one more play, hoping to give the offense a little better field position. I think he was pretty sure that by taking the penalty, Cleveland wasn't going to do anything but play ultra-conservative with a lead and that gave his defense the chance to pin their ears back and try to make something happen. It did actually give them better field position than they otherwise would've had.

Smart move by Tomlin IMO.

Tomlin makes some questionable decisions here and there but I like his willingness to go with his gut on what's working and what's not. He's made decisions like this in this past, keeping the ball away from the struggling unit as much as possible.

BURGH86STEEL
11-26-2012, 10:49 AM
Have you read any of the explanations in this thread? They're dead on. At the time Tomlin made the call, I was scratching my head for a second and then the obvious dawned on me... Tomlin had ZERO confidence in the offense at that point in the game and complete confidence in the defense. So, he kept the defense on the field for one more play, hoping to give the offense a little better field position. I think he was pretty sure that by taking the penalty, Cleveland wasn't going to do anything but play ultra-conservative with a lead and that gave his defense the chance to pin their ears back and try to make something happen. It did actually give them better field position than they otherwise would've had.

Smart move by Tomlin IMO.

Tomlin makes some questionable decisions here and there but I like his willingness to go with his gut on what's working and what's not. He's made decisions like this in this past, keeping the ball away from the struggling unit as much as possible.

I doubt Tomlin gives one of the better QB's and offensive teams in the league a 2nd chance under those circumstances. The Browns offense was just inept as the Steelers. The only difference is the Steelers offense gave the Browns more points with all the turnovers.

Eich
11-26-2012, 12:50 PM
I doubt Tomlin gives one of the better QB's and offensive teams in the league a 2nd chance under those circumstances. The Browns offense was just inept as the Steelers. The only difference is the Steelers offense gave the Browns more points with all the turnovers.


Exactly. This was a good opportunity for Tomlin to give our D a chance to do something to help us win. Our offense needed all the help it could get.

Sword
11-27-2012, 09:08 AM
Have you read any of the explanations in this thread? They're dead on. At the time Tomlin made the call, I was scratching my head for a second and then the obvious dawned on me... Tomlin had ZERO confidence in the offense at that point in the game and complete confidence in the defense. So, he kept the defense on the field for one more play, hoping to give the offense a little better field position. I think he was pretty sure that by taking the penalty, Cleveland wasn't going to do anything but play ultra-conservative with a lead and that gave his defense the chance to pin their ears back and try to make something happen. It did actually give them better field position than they otherwise would've had.

Smart move by Tomlin IMO.

Tomlin makes some questionable decisions here and there but I like his willingness to go with his gut on what's working and what's not. He's made decisions like this in this past, keeping the ball away from the struggling unit as much as possible.
Yes I read them.... we lost and lost bad..so the proof is his game plan was terrible ..If you have a game going that bad by the forth quarter and have "ZERO confidence in the offense" like you say then you put in Brian Hoyer!!
you need offense to win the game the last time I checked...

virgilbosetti
11-27-2012, 03:26 PM
This is the type of mistake that is hard to look past. Way too much risk for the reward. Give your D a chance at a huge & improbable play and risk giving up a first down while the game is still in doubt? I don't see it. I wonder if it was flat out a mistake. He must have thought it was the wrong down.

I would love to see 100 HC's (past and present) polled with this scenario. Shocked if any picked essentially giving the ball away, even for one down...... for ten yards of FP and the glimmer of hope that the D creates a huge play. I'm 46 & I don't ever remember seeing it before. Has anyone else?

I don't think it's a rant against Tomlin, nor is it ignoring all the other execution errors that occurred during the game. It's also not ignoring the other calls by the coaches to blindly pinpoint one bad call.

It's questioning yet another poor game/clock management decision. An area of development for MT that needs to get better.

lloydroid
11-27-2012, 05:43 PM
Even the players on the field were confused.
Did Tomlin think it was 2nd down?
Also after every penalty he's screaming out "what number,what number?"
Mike, they just called out the number are you deaf?
Tomlin seems to make at least 1 mind-boggling decision each week.
Is he really just a guy who likes to use big words to make himself look bright?

I am starting to think my dad is right: He thinks Tomlin is just not that bright. It is starting to appear that way.

lloydroid
11-27-2012, 05:54 PM
This is the type of mistake that is hard to look past. Way too much risk for the reward. Give your D a chance at a huge & improbable play and risk giving up a first down while the game is still in doubt? I don't see it. I wonder if it was flat out a mistake. He must have thought it was the wrong down.

I would love to see 100 HC's (past and present) polled with this scenario. Shocked if any picked essentially giving the ball away, even for one down...... for ten yards of FP and the glimmer of hope that the D creates a huge play. I'm 46 & I don't ever remember seeing it before. Has anyone else?

I don't think it's a rant against Tomlin, nor is it ignoring all the other execution errors that occurred during the game. It's also not ignoring the other calls by the coaches to blindly pinpoint one bad call.

It's questioning yet another poor game/clock management decision. An area of development for MT that needs to get better.

It has become a trend. Tomlin likes to say "I coach by feel, whatever my gut tells me." Well, you better have a "gut check" because your guy has been crap the last few seasons. Poor clock management, and calls like this one....he isn't all that bright. I still like him, but he needs to learn from these mistakes. I am not sure if he is capable of it.

chiken
11-27-2012, 09:57 PM
3 interceptions 5 fumbles and you guys were excited for this unit to win you the game?

Slapstick
11-28-2012, 06:46 AM
This is the type of mistake that is hard to look past. Way too much risk for the reward. Give your D a chance at a huge & improbable play and risk giving up a first down while the game is still in doubt? I don't see it. I wonder if it was flat out a mistake. He must have thought it was the wrong down.

Except it wasn't a mistake, it was a good call...

virgilbosetti
11-28-2012, 08:49 AM
Putting the ball back in the hands of an offense that's trying to beat you? On a day when laundry is flying every other play ? Not a good call. No rationale can defend it. It was a mistake.

I think MT has several good qualities but this is an area of development for him that has got to improve.

Slapstick
11-28-2012, 09:53 AM
Putting the ball back in the hands of an offense that's trying to beat you? On a day when laundry is flying every other play ? Not a good call. No rationale can defend it. It was a mistake.

I think MT has several good qualities but this is an area of development for him that has got to improve.

It absolutely was not a mistake and the results of the following play bore that out...it requires no defense...

Just as most coaching decisions, if it works, it was the right call...if it doesn't, it wasn't the right call...

If Tomlin had opted to make the Browns punt on that down, what are people saying if our punt returner muffs the punt, which ends up even closer to the goalline, and the Browns recover inside our 5 yard line?

I'll tell you: "Tomlin should have taken the penalty. People were fumbling all day...he shouldn't have risked that..."

feltdizz
11-28-2012, 10:04 AM
3 interceptions 5 fumbles and you guys were excited for this unit to win you the game?

this right here... if they were at the 50 then Tomlin doesn't make that call. They were backed up inside the 20 and the percentages were pretty high that the Browns would run the ball on 3rd and 20. We aren't talking about the Pats or the Saints either...

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-28-2012, 10:08 AM
I knee-jerk didn't agree with the decision at the time, but in retrospect I think it was the right one.

At that point in the game it had become very clear we were not going to win the game with the ball in our offense's hand IMO. As such, there was every reason in the world to give the defense a chance to be on the field every second it possibly could. This being especially true, as ironically the Browns had a backup QB on the field that their OC obviously had no confidence in either.

In a way it is (IMO) similar to Bellicheat* going for it on 4th down on their own 20 yard line a few years ago. He had absolutely no confidence his D* at the time could stop a gnat, so he kept the ball in the hands of his best unit*.

feltdizz
11-28-2012, 10:16 AM
I doubt Tomlin does this against a team with a legit QB.... People are acting like we had Ben at QB and our RB's had a monster game. We had 7 TO's and put the ball on the ground 10 times before he made that decision.

pittpete
11-28-2012, 10:28 AM
Accepting the penalty was the absolute wrong call.
1 pass interference call,defense holding,illegal contact,hands to the face,roughing the QB,etc.... and the Browns get an automatic first down.
Too many variables for a decision to be made out of anger like Tomlin chose.
We're talking about 10 yards here, not 20 or 30 or half the field.
Yes the Browns were playing it safe, but 1 missed tackle on a draw play or screen could've been disasterous.
Our punt return unit had been garbage all day at that point.
Decline the penalty, get the ball back and stop playing merry go round with your RB's might have worked.
Dopey,dopey call.

feltdizz
11-28-2012, 10:36 AM
Accepting the penalty was the absolute wrong call.
1 pass interference call,defense holding,illegal contact,hands to the face,roughing the QB,etc.... and the Browns get an automatic first down.
Too many variables for a decision to be made out of anger like Tomlin chose.
We're talking about 10 yards here, not 20 or 30 or half the field.
Yes the Browns were playing it safe, but 1 missed tackle on a draw play or screen could've been disasterous.
Our punt return unit had been garbage all day at that point.
Decline the penalty, get the ball back and stop playing merry go round with your RB's might have worked.
Dopey,dopey call.

all of those things could have happened.. but the odds were against 99% of them taking place and we watched the Browns run a draw play for 2 yards. The Browns were getting flagged all second half, why not try to see if they get another penalty.

If our punt return unit was garbage all day then it really made sense. Why let them punt with +10 yards when you can back them up and gain a few yards?

As far as playing merry go round... who should Tomlin have stuck with at RB? Who showed us they could be trusted with running the football?

virgilbosetti
11-28-2012, 11:14 AM
Odds against all those things are a tough call. It's just too risky. Your D hands you the football.....and you hand it right back giving them another chance to beat you. I don't care who's at QB/RB. It was off the charts bad.

feltdizz
11-28-2012, 11:31 AM
Odds against all those things are a tough call. It's just too risky. Your D hands you the football.....and you hand it right back giving them another chance to beat you. I don't care who's at QB/RB. It was off the charts bad.

Risky? They ran the ball, we gained 8 or 9 yards and they punted.

Risky is the Browns QB dropping back and barely missing an open WR..
Risky is a draw play that exposes a weak rushing defense for a 20 yard gain...
Risky is a pass attempt where the refs missed a blatant PI call...
Risky is making that decision against the Pats...

a 3rd and 20 hand off WITH A BACK UP QB for 2 yards against the #1 D in the league isn't risky.. it's desperation after watching the offense struggle all day.

virgilbosetti
11-28-2012, 11:53 AM
No.....I mean risky because IF they convert it could put the decision that much more in peril. A CB trips and takes a WR out & it's Automatic first down. Hands to the face, etc..... A million things can happen by giving them the ball back. Struggling for any score, now you may need two.

That's risky.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-28-2012, 01:23 PM
No.....I mean risky because IF they convert it could put the decision that much more in peril. A CB trips and takes a WR out & it's Automatic first down. Hands to the face, etc..... A million things can happen by giving them the ball back. Struggling for any score, now you may need two.

That's risky.

Risky yes, but trying the same thing that has failed multiple times and expecting a different outcome - well, some say that's the definition of insanity!

I think Tomlin might have been thinking at some level - "If I don't try something completely different, we WILL lose". From that point of view, I think his decision to give the defense one more chance to win the game is very supportable (as opposed as giving it to the offense to **in all likelihood** p-ss away another set of downs).

virgilbosetti
11-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Risky yes, but trying the same thing that has failed multiple times and expecting a different outcome - well, some say that's the definition of insanity!

I think Tomlin might have been thinking at some level - "If I don't try something completely different, we WILL lose". From that point of view, I think his decision to give the defense one more chance to win the game is very supportable (as opposed as giving it to the offense to **in all likelihood** p-ss away another set of downs).

Good point. I'm all for trying something new, but taking the ball out of your own team's hands, and giving it to the other team?.......Any team. Not good. If he thought giving the ball to Batch was just p-ssing away another set of downs, then he should have removed him, or tried something else with the ball. Try a reverse, an end around, a half back pass.....anything to keep the ball out of their hands. Odds of scoring don't increase when you don't have the ball. Doesn't matter who you have at QB, or who you are facing.

Not trying to be ignorant to anyone here, and I'm not trying to trash MT. Just don't like the call.

feltdizz
11-28-2012, 01:59 PM
Odds of scoring don't increase when you don't have the ball. Doesn't matter who you have at QB, or who you are facing.

Our D had 7 points that game... odds of scoring were actually worse in that game.

a million things could've gone wrong but none of them did...

virgilbosetti
11-28-2012, 03:18 PM
Right. Bullet dodged.

Slapstick
11-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Right. Bullet dodged.

Not really...

We still lost the game...

This particular call had nothing to do with that...

feltdizz
11-28-2012, 03:55 PM
Right. Bullet dodged.

The Browns had a jammed gun and a broken trigger finger...

virgilbosetti
11-28-2012, 04:27 PM
The comment was regarding the call.....not the game. :)

skyhawk
11-29-2012, 08:15 PM
I agreed with this call. I was hoping the Browns would either do another predictable run and lose more field position with the 10 yards or have their rookie QB throw downfield and force one into coverage. We needed a big play on DEFENSE and I thought it was worth the risk to try to make something happen.

I agree with the call He trusted his D to make another stop and wanted to give the O better field position. Not to mention move back the hottest FG kicker in the league right now!! What's so bad about the call? This isn't Playstation.