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View Full Version : Boomer E. just said it best.



Steelhere10
11-25-2012, 05:42 PM
That the Steelers got what they deserved by keeping Byron and Batch! No lie he just said it , did anyone catch it?

focosteeler
11-25-2012, 05:44 PM
I agree with him. I think Byron was ok to keep. Batch on the other hand shouldve been let go awhile ago. You could tell from the play calling that Haley has zero confidence in his abilities.

Shoe
11-25-2012, 06:24 PM
If he said it, he is absolutely right! And many of us have been saying the same thing. I just don't understand why we continue to hang on to THESE TWO CHINA DOLL, as if they are prized commodities. NO ONE wants either of them (particularly Batch). But Leftwich was gifted a starting job in TB, after a year where he basically kept the ship afloat for us--and proceeded to FLOP.

So why would we bring him back again ('10). And again ('11). AND AGAIN ('12). ALONG WITH Charlie Batch, year after year after year...

winwithd
11-25-2012, 06:42 PM
If he said it, he is absolutely right! And many of us have been saying the same thing. I just don't understand why we continue to hang on to THESE TWO CHINA DOLL, as if they are prized commodities. NO ONE wants either of them (particularly Batch). But Leftwich was gifted a starting job in TB, after a year where he basically kept the ship afloat for us--and proceeded to FLOP.

So why would we bring him back again ('10). And again ('11). AND AGAIN ('12). ALONG WITH Charlie Batch, year after year after year...

2013 draft: Rnd 1 - SS, Rnd 2 - QB, Rnd 3 - WR, Rnd 4 - FS

DukieBoy
11-25-2012, 06:49 PM
Boomer just wanted to be a Steeler, never has gotten over it.

:D:D;)

NJ-STEELER
11-25-2012, 06:51 PM
boomer just wants us to give him a contract. cant be any worse then batch..can it?

BURGH86STEEL
11-25-2012, 06:51 PM
Where was the long list of franchise QB's waiting to back up Ben? There is a high percentage chance that a young QB wouldn't do any better then Batch or Leftwich. The Steelers went the route of drafting and attempting develop young QB's. Those players were not good enough. The problem with drafting young developmental QB's is that they don't get enough reps or playing time to be effective when they play.

What killed the team today were the turnovers. I believe the Steelers win the game today if they didn't give the ball away.

focosteeler
11-25-2012, 07:01 PM
Where was the long list of franchise QB's waiting to back up Ben? There is a high percentage chance that a young QB wouldn't do any better then Batch or Leftwich. The Steelers went the route of drafting and attempting develop young QB's. Those players were not good enough. The problem with drafting young developmental QB's is that they don't get enough reps or playing time to be effective when they play.

What killed the team today were the turnovers. I believe the Steelers win the game today if they didn't give the ball away.

I agree I think they win easily if they dont turn it over. Same as last week, that is what cost them the game. Although it is quite unsettling to see exactly how much Ben means to this offense, we are lucky he is only out a couple games.

winwithd
11-25-2012, 07:05 PM
Anyone want Alex Smith as a backup next year if SF lets him go.

winwithd
11-25-2012, 07:06 PM
What about Mike Vick?

Shawn
11-25-2012, 07:20 PM
Our future back up might already be on the roster.

Dee Dub
11-25-2012, 07:24 PM
Where was the long list of franchise QB's waiting to back up Ben? There is a high percentage chance that a young QB wouldn't do any better then Batch or Leftwich. The Steelers went the route of drafting and attempting develop young QB's. Those players were not good enough. The problem with drafting young developmental QB's is that they don't get enough reps or playing time to be effective when they play.

What killed the team today were the turnovers. I believe the Steelers win the game today if they didn't give the ball away.

This is a crock!! Batch cannot get the ball out without it wobbling. He has no arm strength what so-ever and no mobility. Jerrod Johnson would have had the Browns at least respecting his ability to take off and run. That kid had a strong, accurate arm. Batch is horrible. You can sugar coat it any way you want Batch is horrible.

phillyesq
11-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Anyone want Alex Smith as a backup next year if SF lets him go.

Sounds great, but he probably finds a bad team that gives him a chance to start.

NJ-STEELER
11-25-2012, 07:44 PM
i'd ask the redskins what would it take for the kid they drafted after RG3 last year


you know he's not going to see significant time

BURGH86STEEL
11-25-2012, 07:53 PM
This is a crock!! Batch cannot get the ball out without it wobbling. He has no arm strength what so-ever and no mobility. Jerrod Johnson would have had the Browns at least respecting his ability to take off and run. That kid had a strong, accurate arm. Batch is horrible. You can sugar coat it any way you want Batch is horrible.

It's not a crock and I wasn't attempting to sugar coat anything. Fans can know the facts and continue to ignore facts. Batch made some nice throws and not so nice throws. Sounds like what many would say about just about all 3rd string QB's around the league. It's the same thing that I would say about Jerrod Johnson based on his play in the preseason. Running QB's have a hard time winning games without the ability to consistently hurt defenses passing the football. Like Dennis Dixon had the ability to run when he was with the Steelers but couldn't make defense pay consistently enough in the passing game. Fact, most 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league are horrible. Some teams value 3rd string QB's so much that they don't even carry one. Oh and the great Jerrod Johnson isn't even on an NFL roster. The situation is what it is. The best hope is that the team can limit mistakes and pull out close games until Ben can return.

Chadman
11-25-2012, 08:20 PM
Troy Smith anyone?

Dee Dub
11-25-2012, 08:42 PM
It's not a crock and I wasn't attempting to sugar coat anything. Fans can know the facts and continue to ignore facts. Batch made some nice throws and not so nice throws. Sounds like what many would say about just about all 3rd string QB's around the league. It's the same thing that I would say about Jerrod Johnson based on his play in the preseason. Running QB's have a hard time winning games without the ability to consistently hurt defenses passing the football. Like Dennis Dixon had the ability to run when he was with the Steelers but couldn't make defense pay consistently enough in the passing game. Fact, most 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league are horrible. Some teams value 3rd string QB's so much that they don't even carry one. Oh and the great Jerrod Johnson isn't even on an NFL roster. The situation is what it is. The best hope is that the team can limit mistakes and pull out close games until Ben can return.

See, you just proved my point. You really aren't paying attention to what really happens on the field. Jerrod Johnson is more known for his being a pocket passer than he is for being a running QB. But never mind..........

Jerrod Johnson was pretty solid this year for the Steelers in preseason. 14-21 for 236 66.7% 2 TD's and 0 INT's

AngryAsian
11-25-2012, 08:49 PM
Newsflash.....Batch and Byron suck. Anybody trying to come to their defense you might as well dip that turd in some chocolate and take a big bite. They both have the admirable back up QB qualities of immobility, fragility and advance old age. Next year we need to draft the heir apparent to Ben so the learning curve can begin.

Dee Dub
11-25-2012, 08:53 PM
Newsflash.....Batch and Byron suck. Anybody trying to come to their defense you might as well dip that turd in some chocolate and take a big bite. They both have the admirable back up QB qualities of immobility, fragility and advance old age. Next year we need to draft the heir apparent to Ben so the learning curve can begin.

Yep!! Agreed 100%!!

BURGH86STEEL
11-25-2012, 08:59 PM
See, you just proved my point. You really aren't paying attention to what really happens on the field. Jerrod Johnson is more known for his being a pocket passer than he is for being a running QB. But never mind..........

Jerrod Johnson was pretty solid this year for the Steelers in preseason. 14-21 for 236 66.7% 2 TD's and 0 INT's

I didn't prove your point. Jerrod Johnson isn't even in the NFL right now. But never mind.

The problem with fans is they always believe the next man up/cut was the answer. The reality is that 98% of the time the guy cut would be the same or worse then the guy the team decided to keep.

BURGH86STEEL
11-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Newsflash.....Batch and Byron suck. Anybody trying to come to their defense you might as well dip that turd in some chocolate and take a big bite. They both have the admirable back up QB qualities of immobility, fragility and advance old age. Next year we need to draft the heir apparent to Ben so the learning curve can begin.
Many first string QB's are horrible. Most 2nd and 3rd string QB's are horrible. Those are the facts.

Unless the Steelers draft a QB in the first round they ain't gonna find the air apparent to Ben in the later rounds of the draft. I don't think it's time to talk about replacing Ben.

papillon
11-25-2012, 09:04 PM
It's not a crock and I wasn't attempting to sugar coat anything. Fans can know the facts and continue to ignore facts. Batch made some nice throws and not so nice throws. Sounds like what many would say about just about all 3rd string QB's around the league. It's the same thing that I would say about Jerrod Johnson based on his play in the preseason. Running QB's have a hard time winning games without the ability to consistently hurt defenses passing the football. Like Dennis Dixon had the ability to run when he was with the Steelers but couldn't make defense pay consistently enough in the passing game. Fact, most 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league are horrible. Some teams value 3rd string QB's so much that they don't even carry one. Oh and the great Jerrod Johnson isn't even on an NFL roster. The situation is what it is. The best hope is that the team can limit mistakes and pull out close games until Ben can return.

This is about as accurate an assessment as there is right now. Had Leftwich not got hurt last week the Steelers win the game handily IMO. He couldn't make the throws because he was hurt, not because he's a bad quarterback.

Pappy

Steelhere10
11-25-2012, 09:23 PM
I didn't prove your point. Jerrod Johnson isn't even in the NFL right now. But never mind.

The problem with fans is they always believe the next man up/cut was the answer. The reality is that 98% of the time the guy cut would be the same or worse then the guy the team decided to keep.If they are running a vanilla offense for Batch, then what's the purpose of keeping him. At least have a 3rd string who can move and have arm strength. And if you are judging, Johnson out performed Batch and stiffy in the preseason.

BURGH86STEEL
11-25-2012, 10:49 PM
If they are running a vanilla offense for Batch, then what's the purpose of keeping him. At least have a 3rd string who can move and have arm strength. And if you are judging, Johnson out performed Batch and stiffy in the preseason.

I don't know what kind of offense they ran with Batch. Regardless of the offense the coaches designed, the team is not going to win games giving the ball away regardless of who plays QB.

I don't know why the team kept Batch. Maybe it was because Johnson wasn't good enough? The FACT that Johnson is out of the league right now suggests he wasn't good enough at this point of his career. That may change in the future.

Most 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the league are horrible. It's odd that fans can watch the sport for years and not realize that most 2nd and 3rd string QB's are horrible.

birtikidis
11-25-2012, 11:01 PM
I think that the problem with batch is that he's horrible because he's incapable. He was a good backup a few years ago bc he had a little left. He doesn't anymore. The point about Johnson, IMO, is that he CAN he just can't do it well. Most third string guys are young guys who just don't have a lot of something (talent, brains etc) but they have room to improve. Our third stringer can't improve his weakness. He can't get younger.

Shoe
11-26-2012, 12:12 AM
This is about as accurate an assessment as there is right now. Had Leftwich not got hurt last week the Steelers win the game handily IMO. He couldn't make the throws because he was hurt, not because he's a bad quarterback.

Pappy

You're missing the point. First of all, Leftwich IS a bad QB. He had his chance in JAX, he failed. Since then, he dutifully held a clipboard behind Ben, and one year in there, he rode the coattails of a top defense and played his way into a starting job in Tampa. What happened? He proceeded to flop, not even finishing half the year.

Second and more important--"Had Leftwich not got hurt last week..." THAT'S THE POINT. He's ALWAYS hurt. He can't finish a game. To say that he would've led us to victory is moot because he can't finish a game--let alone play for an extended period.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 12:25 AM
Newsflash.....Batch and Byron suck. Anybody trying to come to their defense you might as well dip that turd in some chocolate and take a big bite. They both have the admirable back up QB qualities of immobility, fragility and advance old age. Next year we need to draft the heir apparent to Ben so the learning curve can begin.

Thank you. They both suck. Both of their performances were unacceptable.

I put these losses on the entire Steelers organization. How in the world do you go this many years without grooming a younger QB for a backup? 1 veteran and 1 youngster for grooming. I for one thought Jerrod Johnson should have replaced either Leftwich or Batch. One of them should have been let go.

If it were me, I'd start Hoyer if Ben can't play. Let's be real about this.... Even with a limited playbook, can Hoyer's performance be any worse than Leftwich or Batch? I highly doubt it. Give the kid a shot. It can't get any worse.

Dee Dub
11-26-2012, 12:45 AM
I didn't prove your point. Jerrod Johnson isn't even in the NFL right now. But never mind.

The problem with fans is they always believe the next man up/cut was the answer. The reality is that 98% of the time the guy cut would be the same or worse then the guy the team decided to keep.

No one is saying that Jerrod Johnson is the answer or that he would have been great. But he could have been a viable back-up for days like today. As it is right now and has been for quite some time the Steelers dont have a viable option as a back up QB. Neither Leftwich nor Batch are going to win any games for the Steelers.

Why not try and develop a guy like Johnson? Who knows, maybe he has the chance to be decent. Leftwich and Batch will never be descent again. They are both horrible and will never get any better than what they are now.

BURGH86STEEL
11-26-2012, 04:57 AM
No one is saying that Jerrod Johnson is the answer or that he would have been great. But he could have been a viable back-up for days like today. As it is right now and has been for quite some time the Steelers dont have a viable option as a back up QB. Neither Leftwich nor Batch are going to win any games for the Steelers.

Why not try and develop a guy like Johnson? Who knows, maybe he has the chance to be decent. Leftwich and Batch will never be descent again. They are both horrible and will never get any better than what they are now.

If Johnson was a viable backup why is he out of the league?

There is a high percentage chance that Johnson wouldn't perform any better then Batch or Leftwich. If the Steelers had kept Johnson and cut Batch or Leftwich there would be people believing that the Steelers should had kept the QB that was cut. The fact remains that when teams are force to play 2nd and 3rd string QB's the result are not going to be good for most teams in the league. I've been watching this game a long time to reach that conclusion. I don't know what to say to the people that haven't realized that the situation is horrible for most team's starting QB's and even worse for team's backup QB's. I guess you guys can continue to believe next guy cut or drafted in the middle rounds will be the answer. History and the percentages will be against you.

Steelhere10
11-26-2012, 08:08 AM
The point that I'm making is, if you are going to protect Batch by running vanilla and playing defense then Johnson or Hoyer would have been a better option. If you watched the game you would have thought a rookie was playing. Even the announcer was saying the game plan was to protect Batch by running ,short passes and playing defense.

Sword
11-26-2012, 09:07 AM
Newsflash.....Batch and Byron suck. Anybody trying to come to their defense you might as well dip that turd in some chocolate and take a big bite. They both have the admirable back up QB qualities of immobility, fragility and advance old age. Next year we need to draft the heir apparent to Ben so the learning curve can begin.

lol...I agree!

fezziwig
11-26-2012, 09:14 AM
I think the Steelers went with mind over matter. You have experience with Batch and Leftwich that, they thought would do better than the youth of a rookie or Dixon. Dixon wasn't the answer and neither was J.J. but, I thought J.J. would have eventually been better than Dixon. The Steelers have been playing it safe with keeping the old guys and I agreed with them except for Leftwich. I didn't even want him on the team let alone keeping his fragile body around after too many times proven that he can't hack it.
I've just learned Batches days are behind him too. Unless yesterdays game was a, " rust remover moment " Batch no longer has the ability to step in and keep things turning.

Seven turnovers wasn't going to bear any team in the NFL.

Starlifter
11-26-2012, 09:29 AM
I thought going into the season we may have had the best trio of QB's in the league. Last year when ben was suspended they were able to perform well. Yes, everyone knows they are physically fragile - but these are two guys that HAVE been starters in the past and had some success. You don't expect miracles but you DO expect them to be able to hit the tight end on a 10 yard out pass. it's too early to draft and groom ben's replacement so I'm not sure what they should do. go with youth and inexperience? go with a proven non-starter journeyman ala tyler palko? ultimately if lefty hadn't got hurt (and tomlin had recognized it and pulled him) we probably win that game and if we only had 6 turnovers instead of 8 we probably win yesterday. still, even with much blame to go around our 2 backups played significant roles in defeat.

not sure where to go from here.

Sugar
11-26-2012, 09:34 AM
I thought going into the season we may have had the best trio of QB's in the league. Last year when ben was suspended they were able to perform well. Yes, everyone knows they are physically fragile - but these are two guys that HAVE been starters in the past and had some success. You don't expect miracles but you DO expect them to be able to hit the tight end on a 10 yard out pass. it's too early to draft and groom ben's replacement so I'm not sure what they should do. go with youth and inexperience? go with a proven non-starter journeyman ala tyler palko? ultimately if lefty hadn't got hurt (and tomlin had recognized it and pulled him) we probably win that game and if we only had 6 turnovers instead of 8 we probably win yesterday. still, even with much blame to go around our 2 backups played significant roles in defeat.

not sure where to go from here.

I'm on the same page with you. Perhaps Hoyer can be the reliable backup that the team needs going forward?

ikestops85
11-26-2012, 02:00 PM
I think Burgh86steel is one of the few people in this thread making any sense. These guys are backups for a reason. Just because Batch played bad yesterday doesn't mean he doesn't have any good games in him. He needs time to adjust to the speed of the game just like any QB that hasn't played in years.

Batch certainly wasn't the biggest problem yesterday. When your top three backs each fumble on your side of the field you generally won't win a game. When your "elite" receiver can't catch a ball thrown at his back hip and instead bats it up in the air it doesn't help. When that same receiver, who supposedly has a great standing jump, let's the defender go up and intercept a ball instead of at least knocking it down that also doesn't help. When NOBODY steps up to make a play on offense we are going to lose.

So we can't run the ball, our big time receiver was non-existent, our play-making receiver was on the bench and every time we had a decent play we seemed to get called for holding. Batch's play seemed to fit in right with the rest of the offense. No better, no worse.

fezziwig
11-26-2012, 02:20 PM
I remember it was either two or three seasons ago we had one rookie QB in camp, can't remember his name but, he seemed to have a presence about him on the field. Seemed to be accurate, made good reads and didn't panic. Besides that all I can remember about him was, he was a white kid with a big nose. I was upset they kept Dixon over big white nose. Does anyone remember the QB ?

BURGH86STEEL
11-26-2012, 02:31 PM
I think Burgh86steel is one of the few people in this thread making any sense. These guys are backups for a reason. Just because Batch played bad yesterday doesn't mean he doesn't have any good games in him. He needs time to adjust to the speed of the game just like any QB that hasn't played in years.

Batch certainly wasn't the biggest problem yesterday. When your top three backs each fumble on your side of the field you generally won't win a game. When your "elite" receiver can't catch a ball thrown at his back hip and instead bats it up in the air it doesn't help. When that same receiver, who supposedly has a great standing jump, let's the defender go up and intercept a ball instead of at least knocking it down that also doesn't help. When NOBODY steps up to make a play on offense we are going to lose.

So we can't run the ball, our big time receiver was non-existent, our play-making receiver was on the bench and every time we had a decent play we seemed to get called for holding. Batch's play seemed to fit in right with the rest of the offense. No better, no worse.

It seemed to me that Batch's timing was off on several throws. The timing was especially off on the deep passes. Based on the commentary, the timing aspect of the passing game was a concern for Tomlin. Batch threw several nice passes. Based on the throws he made, it's understandable why the coaches wanted to keep him around. Penalties hurt some of the plays Batch made in the passing game. I remember a nice throw he made to Heath which was called back due to a holding penalty.

Batch was a problem yesterday in that he needs to take better care of the football. Only time will tell if Batch can improve with more practice and playing time. At this point, he's what the Steelers have.

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2012, 02:36 PM
Maybe one of the reasons that they kept Leftwich and Batch over Johnson is that Leftwich and Batch can help Ben. When Ben is playing, he can come off the field and talk to Byron and Charlie about what he is seeing out there, and what they are seeing from the sidelines. Veteran eyes can be helpful to a QB. Just another thought to add to the discussion.

steelz09
11-26-2012, 02:46 PM
Maybe one of the reasons that they kept Leftwich and Batch over Johnson is that Leftwich and Batch can help Ben. When Ben is playing, he can come off the field and talk to Byron and Charlie about what he is seeing out there, and what they are seeing from the sidelines. Veteran eyes can be helpful to a QB. Just another thought to add to the discussion.


That's valid but you don't need both Leftwich and Batch for that. That is why I was all for keeping 1 of them and replacing the other with Johnson. If for some strange reason Ben needs both, hire 1 of them as a QB coach/adviser or something like that. Batch would be good in a role like that.

Dixon proved to me that he wasn't a capable backup. That happens. Johnson proved enough to me that he deserved a roster spot at the expense of Bath or Leftwich.

fezziwig
11-26-2012, 02:49 PM
That's valid but you don't need both Leftwich and Batch for that. That is why I was all for keeping 1 of them and replacing the other with Johnson. If for some strange reason Ben needs both, hire 1 of them as a QB coach/adviser or something like that. Batch would be good in a role like that.

Dixon proved to me that he wasn't a capable backup. That happens. Johnson proved enough to me that he deserved a roster spot at the expense of Bath or Leftwich.

Me too. At the time I thought Batch or Leftwich was in trouble come time for the cuts to be made. I figured Batch would be let go because for some reason, they see value in Byron Brittle Leftwich. Yep, I thought J.J. won himself a spot on the team.