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drprwnap
11-25-2012, 05:08 PM
7 TURNOVERS, led by Fumblehall. This guy flat out sucks. Last week, clear path out of bounds to stop the clock with a minute left and does that dumba$$ get out of bounds??? NOOOOO. A high school player would have known what to do in that situation. Then he set the tone today with his first fumble. He's dead to me. Get rid of him. I will say he is not solely responsible for today's loss, but he sure helped.

DukieBoy
11-25-2012, 05:20 PM
All the turnovers were bad. Which was the worst of the seven turnovers? What do you think?

Jooser
11-25-2012, 05:22 PM
Rainey fumbled twice and Charlie threw how many INTs? The team rolled into to town and laid a big ol rotten egg. Plain and simple, Tomlin had this team ill-prepared once again. Mendenhall wasn't the only rotten spot today, the whole egg was spoiled.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-25-2012, 05:31 PM
Rainey fumbled twice and Charlie threw how many INTs? The team rolled into to town and laid a big ol rotten egg. Plain and simple, Tomlin had this team ill-prepared once again. Mendenhall wasn't the only rotten spot today, the whole egg was spoiled.
$$$$$

Third week in a row that Tomlin has crapped the bed.

It's getting very troublesome.

Flasteel
11-25-2012, 05:32 PM
I still low-ball Mendenhall in the off-season and either get him dirt-cheap or bid him farewell. There is nothing special about him.

Slapstick
11-25-2012, 05:33 PM
So, Tomlin coached those guys to put the ball on the ground?:confused:

Snatch98
11-25-2012, 05:36 PM
$$$$$

Third week in a row that Tomlin has crapped the bed.

It's getting very troublesome.

It's Tomlins fault our running backs fumbled and Charlie was throwing ducks? You serious? After each fumble the guy that fumbled was out of the game, until all the rb's fumbled and he had to go with one. Tomlin in no way was to blame for anything that happened in this game. What is Tomlin supposed to do? Hire a chimp to hang on each running back and constantly take swings at the ball? What a absolutely mental point of view.

Eddie Spaghetti
11-25-2012, 05:37 PM
this team plays sloppy and generally comes out flat.

that's on the HC.

focosteeler
11-25-2012, 05:37 PM
$$$$$

Third week in a row that Tomlin has crapped the bed.

It's getting very troublesome.

I dont understand how you put this on Tomlin. He cant go out there and glue the ball to their hands.

Snatch98
11-25-2012, 05:38 PM
this team plays sloppy and generally comes out flat.

that's on the HC.

Absolutely mental. Batch doesn't have an arm and the rb's put the ball on the ground. The slop wasn't scheme, it was not holding on to the football. Period. A few of you really need to wake up.

Iron Shiek
11-25-2012, 05:39 PM
$$$$$

Third week in a row that Tomlin has crapped the bed.

It's getting very troublesome.

And Al gore invented the Internet.

this is on the players dude...

DukieBoy
11-25-2012, 05:42 PM
What does it say about preparation ... this pattern of losing to the worst teams in the league ??? Losses to the Raiders, the Titans, (nearly to the Chiefs at home), and now the Browns. Is there something about the team or the coaching that this pattern has happened?

Snatch98
11-25-2012, 05:43 PM
What does it say about preparation ... this pattern of losing to the worst teams in the league ??? Losses to the Raiders, the Titans, (nearly to the Chiefs at home), and now the Browns. Is there something about the team or the coaching that this pattern has happened?

Our defense wasn't playing well in the games you just mentioned outside of this loss to the Browns in which we were without Ben. I'm not exactly sure what people want but most of it has very little to do with scheme and everything to do with execution. We're banged up and until the team gets healthy in the right areas we are going to struggle.

Eddie Spaghetti
11-25-2012, 05:45 PM
nothing is ever tomlins fault, it seems.

I like the guy and think he is a great leader, but he has not had a great year, IMO.

I don't think that is out of the realm of discussion.

Steelhere10
11-25-2012, 05:47 PM
The only thing I blame on Tomlin for this, is keeping two bad backups.

Jooser
11-25-2012, 05:49 PM
Yeah, Tomlin is bullet proof. The team is ill-prepared, period. They lack focus and discipline and the the coach isn't instilling it in this team. Everyone wants to play for Tomlin because he's a buddy, not a coach at this point. And it was probably all the players decision to not cut Charlie 'the fossil' Batch this year, Tomlin had nothing to do with that.

DukieBoy
11-25-2012, 05:49 PM
Our defense wasn't playing well in the games you just mentioned outside of this loss to the Browns in which we were without Ben. I'm not exactly sure what people want but most of it has very little to do with scheme and everything to do with execution. We're banged up and until the team gets healthy in the right areas we are going to struggle.

Multiple factors, that seems clear, defensive issues earlier in the year, injuries especially of late. And yet, next man up, and the standard is the standard, and we are failing to hold up lately to bad teams, yet we at least held it close vs the 8 -2 Ravens.

Snatch98
11-25-2012, 05:54 PM
Multiple factors, that seems clear, defensive issues earlier in the year, injuries especially of late. And yet, next man up, and the standard is the standard, and we are failing to hold up lately to bad teams, yet we at least held it close vs the 8 -2 Ravens.

We held it close with the Ravens because the defense is playing like the best defense in the league. We need to get healthy.

flippy
11-25-2012, 06:19 PM
I have no idea how anyone can blame Tomlin. Every key player on this team from last year is either retired, aging, hurt, out, etc. We're playing with 3rd stringers in many key areas. And this team is playing good enough to beat anyone. Shuffle the players and Tomlin and the coaches have em ready to go.

It's execution. It's not the scheme or preparation. It was the 6 fumbles and 3 Ints.

Eddie Spaghetti
11-25-2012, 06:24 PM
how in the heck can you say "this team is playing good enough to beat anyone"?

that is absolutely ludicrous.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-25-2012, 06:24 PM
It's Tomlins fault our running backs fumbled and Charlie was throwing ducks? You serious? After each fumble the guy that fumbled was out of the game, until all the rb's fumbled and he had to go with one. Tomlin in no way was to blame for anything that happened in this game. What is Tomlin supposed to do? Hire a chimp to hang on each running back and constantly take swings at the ball? What a absolutely mental point of view.
Yes...we could of had a young QB to play but Tomlin chose Batch, and he also chooses to run 4 backs. I'm willing to bet if you run Dwyer as the primary we fumble once maybe twice. Tomlinson is a fan standing on the sideline.

Shoe
11-25-2012, 06:30 PM
It's totally legitimate to blame this loss on Tomlin, IF YOU ARE CITING HIS KEEPING OF BATCH/LEFTWICH YEAR AFTER YEAR. It is not legitimate to blame him for 7 turnovers. If we were outschemed in some way would be one thing. But if professional grown @s$ men can't hang onto a pigskin, how is that Tomlin's fault?

And BTW, where are the Mendenhall apologists: The announcer compared today's fumble to his fumble in the SB. In both cases, he just gave up the ball. Are you going to blame David Johnson (sitting on his couch) for this one too?

flippy
11-25-2012, 06:31 PM
how in the heck can you say "this team is playing good enough to beat anyone"?

that is absolutely ludicrous.

We were 1 play away from winning in every loss this season. I don't remember seeing a game where a team turns the ball over 7 times and only loses by 6.

This team is good. We're not healthy by any means. But I like that a lot of these guys just keep plugging away. Give me a few healthy players back and we've got a real shot at our next Lombardi this year.

The guys that are hurt are some of the best players in all of football. And we're churning along without them and keeping it close. There's a spark in this team and it's about to explode. The key is getting healthy.

papillon
11-25-2012, 07:59 PM
We were 1 play away from winning in every loss this season. I don't remember seeing a game where a team turns the ball over 7 times and only loses by 6.

This team is good. We're not healthy by any means. But I like that a lot of these guys just keep plugging away. Give me a few healthy players back and we've got a real shot at our next Lombardi this year.

The guys that are hurt are some of the best players in all of football. And we're churning along without them and keeping it close. There's a spark in this team and it's about to explode. The key is getting healthy.

No, please, don't you know they need fire Tomlin and promote the PS players into the starting lineup, because they're all better than the china dolls and bad football players that start for the Steelers.

Geesh...

Pappy

feltdizz
11-25-2012, 08:30 PM
I blame Tomlin for some of this..the mistakes are piling up and you have to blame the HC when a team doesn't have discipline. The sorry fumble was the first fumble.. it set the tone and it wasn't even a hard hit.

As far as Mendenhall aka fumblehall... I don't see how fumbling when barely touched passed the LOS is the sake as getting crushed in the backfield in the SB.

We should have kept JJ but he wouldn't have saved us today... the RB's were determined to lose this game.

Chadman
11-25-2012, 08:57 PM
There are too many factors at play to singularly blame Tomlin, but certainly there is some level of responsibility there- going all the way back to preparation in Training Camp with roster spot allocations.

Chadman loves the coach that Tomlin is- and isn't even mildly suggesting that his position needs looking into.

But the FO does have a bad/good habit of not taking risks. Good in that the system has proven, more often than not, to work. Stick with guys you know, don't change the gameplan much, play Steeler football etc. All good.

Until time catches up, that is. The FO needed to be more pro-active the last few seasons trying to get ready to move into the next phase of Steeler football. There are some signs that they are doing that- young WR corp, young CB's, young RB's, and now a young OL.

But it took too long for the move to the OL in Chadman's opinion- too much reliance on older players that were declining. But the situation is even more noticable along the DL where they took forver to finally make a move to get younger. The result is mixed play on the DL as they learn to be NFL starters or decline, depending on which end of the age scale you sit. The Safeties are old, with no real, genuine replacements lined up. The QB's, obviously- although, in TC, they had 2 younger QB's & overlooked them.

Regardless- in Chadman's opinion now, we will face a few seasons of 'forced risk' as older players simply NEED to be replaced by untested young players. It is not that big a stretch to think that Hampton, Keisel, Foote, Polamalu, Clark, Taylor, Cotchery, Batch, Leftwich & Harrison could be retired within 2 seasons. And while we have some guys that look ready to step in and replace these guys (Heyward, Sanders), there are just as many 'replacements' with giant questionmarks hovering over them- Worilds, Allen/Brown, McLendon, Sylvester/Spence... any QB or Safety.

The next 2 off-seasons are huge for the Steelers. They'll need to get at least 3 genuine starting quality players out of the next 2 drafts. Maybe 4-5 if some of the young guys on the roster don't step up. And when you look at the quality we are losing, 2-3 of these young guys will need to be better than 'just starters', they'll need to be stars.

Believe it or not, the Steelers have been in a transition phase for about 3 seasons as we've moved away from the aging roster to the younger one. Only problem is that for every step forward (Wallace/Brown/Sanders as an example) the 'tried & true' mentality has held the FO back on similar moves in other positions- DL, Safety, QB as an example.

papillon
11-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Yeah, Tomlin is bullet proof. The team is ill-prepared, period. They lack focus and discipline and the the coach isn't instilling it in this team. Everyone wants to play for Tomlin because he's a buddy, not a coach at this point. And it was probably all the players decision to not cut Charlie 'the fossil' Batch this year, Tomlin had nothing to do with that.

How were they not prepared?

The defense did its job given the Steelers offense gave the Browns 7 extra posessions
The Special teams were fine
The offense sucked, but the game plan to attack the Browns with their third string quarterback was solid. The coaches can't do a whole lot when the players put it on the ground 5 times, losing 4 fumbles and the 3rd string quarterback throws 3 picks.

The team didn't play well, it looks like the coach didn't have them prepared, because they played poorly. There is culpability on Tomlin and coaches, but this one lies squarely on the offenses shoulders to handle the little things that they have been taught since they were playing pee wee football.

Personally, the one thing I would have done rather than start rotating RBs is keep feeding one of them as if he's the starter. If one player puts in on the ground 5 times then you bench next game move on from there, but rotating backs and each one putting it on the ground seems odd.

Pappy

flippy
11-25-2012, 09:27 PM
There are too many factors at play to singularly blame Tomlin, but certainly there is some level of responsibility there- going all the way back to preparation in Training Camp with roster spot allocations.

Chadman loves the coach that Tomlin is- and isn't even mildly suggesting that his position needs looking into.

But the FO does have a bad/good habit of not taking risks. Good in that the system has proven, more often than not, to work. Stick with guys you know, don't change the gameplan much, play Steeler football etc. All good.

Until time catches up, that is. The FO needed to be more pro-active the last few seasons trying to get ready to move into the next phase of Steeler football. There are some signs that they are doing that- young WR corp, young CB's, young RB's, and now a young OL.

But it took too long for the move to the OL in Chadman's opinion- too much reliance on older players that were declining. But the situation is even more noticable along the DL where they took forver to finally make a move to get younger. The result is mixed play on the DL as they learn to be NFL starters or decline, depending on which end of the age scale you sit. The Safeties are old, with no real, genuine replacements lined up. The QB's, obviously- although, in TC, they had 2 younger QB's & overlooked them.

Regardless- in Chadman's opinion now, we will face a few seasons of 'forced risk' as older players simply NEED to be replaced by untested young players. It is not that big a stretch to think that Hampton, Keisel, Foote, Polamalu, Clark, Taylor, Cotchery, Batch, Leftwich & Harrison could be retired within 2 seasons. And while we have some guys that look ready to step in and replace these guys (Heyward, Sanders), there are just as many 'replacements' with giant questionmarks hovering over them- Worilds, Allen/Brown, McLendon, Sylvester/Spence... any QB or Safety.

The next 2 off-seasons are huge for the Steelers. They'll need to get at least 3 genuine starting quality players out of the next 2 drafts. Maybe 4-5 if some of the young guys on the roster don't step up. And when you look at the quality we are losing, 2-3 of these young guys will need to be better than 'just starters', they'll need to be stars.

Believe it or not, the Steelers have been in a transition phase for about 3 seasons as we've moved away from the aging roster to the younger one. Only problem is that for every step forward (Wallace/Brown/Sanders as an example) the 'tried & true' mentality has held the FO back on similar moves in other positions- DL, Safety, QB as an example.

It's a tough balancing act trying to stay competitive while transitioning simultaneously.

I really think they were trying to replay the 70s where the D carried us to 2 SuperBowls, then the next 2 were the O's turn. But what really held us back was we had talent on O but couldn't produce enough points to carry the team. I think we pinned our hopes during the transition that Ben could carry us.

He didn't get there for whatever reason. The OLine, Tomlin, BA, Ben - likely a combination. But the cool thing is during the whole transition, Lebeau's been figuring out how to get something out of the defense. And somehow we're playing great D despite get little pressure or turnovers. And this D keeps making something out of nothing hoping the O will click with Ben and he can carry the load. But we keep waiting. This seemed like it could be the year with Haley to turn the corner.

Ben definitely got more efficient. Better all around. But we still can't score points for some darn reason.

drprwnap
11-25-2012, 09:56 PM
And BTW, where are the Mendenhall apologists: The announcer compared today's fumble to his fumble in the SB. In both cases, he just gave up the ball. Are you going to blame David Johnson (sitting on his couch) for this one too?


I don't agree with the SB reference but fumblehall flat out SUCKS. If I could, I'd make him hold a football when he wipes his a$$. Of course, he'd probably drop it in the toilet.

NorthCoast
11-25-2012, 10:56 PM
Let's see:

Steelers offense:
3rd string QB starting
minus their best WR for 3 weeks
minus starting left guard and right tackle
RBs by committee because not a single one seems to be able to lead the pack

Steelers defense:
minus one of their best pass rushers for most of the game
minus their best DB for most of the season

And yet, the game was a one possession game. A coach can only do so much, then it's on the players. Tomlin sat the ones that didn't perform, but you can't bench the entire offense.

Oh and FYI, the Browns are not a bad football team. Their defense has been improving every game and if Weeden was a real NFL QB the offense would probably have won a few more games.

NorthCoast
11-25-2012, 11:20 PM
It's a tough balancing act trying to stay competitive while transitioning simultaneously.

I really think they were trying to replay the 70s where the D carried us to 2 SuperBowls, then the next 2 were the O's turn. But what really held us back was we had talent on O but couldn't produce enough points to carry the team. I think we pinned our hopes during the transition that Ben could carry us.

He didn't get there for whatever reason. The OLine, Tomlin, BA, Ben - likely a combination. But the cool thing is during the whole transition, Lebeau's been figuring out how to get something out of the defense. And somehow we're playing great D despite get little pressure or turnovers. And this D keeps making something out of nothing hoping the O will click with Ben and he can carry the load. But we keep waiting. This seemed like it could be the year with Haley to turn the corner.

Ben definitely got more efficient. Better all around. But we still can't score points for some darn reason.

One of the most telling stats of all; the defense is tied with SF for opponent fewest yds/play (4.5). I was somewhat discounting their total yards stats since the Steelers were killing opponents with TOP meaning the opponent had few plays and time against the defense. But the yds/play doesn't lie. The Steelers defense is THAT good! If they can manage to pick up a few more pieces in the next draft, they could become very formidable.