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NorthCoast
11-19-2012, 10:33 PM
The Steelers are facing the real possibility that they may have to finish the season with an off-the-street QB. In my view, that represents a real front office fail! The Steelers are one of the few teams that enter a season with only 2 QBs.
The question is, the staff knows from history that Batch is an injury-in-waiting at any given moment. But how did they get the idea that Leftwich could last for any length of time?? We fans seem to have sensed it, how could the coaches not? Shame on the front office for jeopardizing what could have been a good season of redemption for the Steelers. They need one of these developmental QBs to stick with the team. Sure, the season likely is over if a third string QB has to start, but having to search the street for a mid season game smacks of poor planning by the Steeler front office.

hawaiiansteel
11-19-2012, 10:47 PM
The Steelers are facing the real possibility that they may have to finish the season with an off-the-street QB. In my view, that represents a real front office fail! The Steelers are one of the few teams that enter a season with only 2 QBs.


we entered the season with Ben, Lefty and Batch...

NorthCoast
11-19-2012, 10:53 PM
we entered the season with Ben, Lefty and Batch...


my bad.. but before yesterday's game nobody felt like Leftwich or Batch would make it through a complete game. Again, if we dumb fans could sense it, I have to believe the coaches were equally concerned. They need to face the fact that they rolled the dice one too many seasons sticking with 'the old guys'.

pittpete
11-19-2012, 11:01 PM
If you didn't realize that Batch was our 3rd string QB, 10 games into the season then how can we take anything you type seriously.
You were joking,right? :o

NorthCoast
11-19-2012, 11:30 PM
If you didn't realize that Batch was our 3rd string QB, 10 games into the season then how can we take anything you type seriously.
You were joking,right? :o

reality was many wanted Batch cut prior to the season while keeping Johnson as developmental. the feeling was that the Steelers could sign Batch in a pinch knowing no team would have picked him up, thus they could have experience waiting in the wings while also having a strong, young guy that had a chance to make the team. If they would have followed that strategy, they would be making a call to Batch this week, WHILE ALSO HAVING A YOUNG GUY THAT HAD SOME FAMILIARITY WITH THE OFFENSE should Batch not get through the game.

Sugar
11-19-2012, 11:35 PM
Really?? Many thought that the Steelers depth at QB was one of the best in the league as they had not one, but two former NFL starters on the squad backing up Ben.

NorthCoast
11-19-2012, 11:46 PM
Really?? Many thought that the Steelers depth at QB was one of the best in the league as they had not one, but two former NFL starters on the squad backing up Ben.

not what some of yinz said:

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/38273-Would-You?highlight=backup+2012

Sugar
11-19-2012, 11:51 PM
not what some of yinz said:

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/38273-Would-You?highlight=backup+2012

You can find all kinds of opinions out there. The point is that many considered the Steelers deep at the QB position due to the experience factor.

NorthCoast
11-20-2012, 12:15 AM
You can find all kinds of opinions out there. The point is that many considered the Steelers deep at the QB position due to the experience factor.

Yes... also an opinion.

Hindsight is 20-20. Leftwich isn't exactly old, but big questions surrounded his and Batch's durability. The Steelers were hoping for the best and maybe felt good about their QBs given their cap situation and renewed emphasis on short passing game.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-20-2012, 05:15 AM
Really?? Many thought that the Steelers depth at QB was one of the best in the league as they had not one, but two former NFL starters on the squad backing up Ben.
Not me. I think and thought they are both walking injuries. Batch should be a coach. I have had a QB in my last 4 mock drafts but always revised them out because either they were not black or we wouldn't draft one anyway. Jerrod Johnson should of been kept with Batch moving to a coaching gig.

feltdizz
11-20-2012, 10:51 AM
we should have kept JJ...

phillyesq
11-20-2012, 11:20 AM
I'm quite pleased that the Steelers kept Batch over Johnson. I'd rather see Batch starting against the Browns and believe that he gives the Steelers the best chance to win.

I remember the first preseason game against the Eagles - Nick Foles lit up the Steelers third and fourth stringers, and Johnson did very little. Well, Nick Foles is now starting and playing terribly. If Johnson was facing first team defenses, it would be a disaster.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-20-2012, 11:22 AM
I don't know if I would label it a "fail" but you can be sure it is highlighted on the "to do" list.

pfelix73
11-20-2012, 11:35 AM
This all could work out just fine for us. IF they sign Kafka, who is a good young QB, he could possibly wind up as our long term backup. Of course, this is just a possibility and they could sign someone else, but I'm just baffled as to why Andy Reid cut the guy in the 1st place. Sort of hardly given the guy a chance, and he's a NW graduate. Pretty damn smart kid who can throw it. We'll see. I was thinking the Steelers need to use a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick next year on a valid back up QB, but heck, maybe this guy will be our answer at #2- long term.

steelblood
11-20-2012, 11:44 AM
I have always said that Batch and Leftwich are brittle china dolls. I wanted them to keep Johnson. However, I do NOT see this as a FO oversight. They kept three QBs who have all succeeded in the NFL. We still have Batch for this game and hopefully Ben will be back soon. The season is not lost and we still have a capable QB for this game.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-20-2012, 11:48 AM
I have always said that Batch and Leftwich are brittle china dolls. I wanted them to keep Johnson. However, I do NOT see this as a FO oversight. They kept three QBs who have all succeeded in the NFL. We still have Batch for this game and hopefully Ben will be back soon. The season is not lost and we still have a capable QB for this game.

How is it not an oversight when everyone other than apparently you (not you, meaning you as in the coaches) know straight up that the two backups you are keeping are brittle and one is old as hell? Say Ben went down in game two with a broken leg that would take 10 weeks to heal and have him back......would it make sense to have to brittle/ one old backup QB's? Or would it make more sense to have one old cagey veteran and one young buck like Johnson? I would of kept Johnson and Leftwich and signed Batch a some sort of offensive coach and if we ended up needing him then sign him to a contract.

Oviedo
11-20-2012, 11:50 AM
Sometime in the past two drafts the team should have gotten serious about drafting a young developmental QB. Not sure whether they didn't want to tick off Ben or what but we are pay the piper now for not doing that. The reality is that there really aren't any good back-ups in the league right or very, very few. The #1 guy goes down and every team struggles. Anyone watch the Bears last night without Cutler?

That is why I really think we will struggle the rest of the season. After watching the Browns play the Cowboys, I know they can beat us unless we play an "A" game in all facets of play. The Ravens can beat us again too.

Just watch how the rest of our season potentially ffalls apart and you will understand why Goodell is trying to protect starting QBs. The product just ends up being inferior.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-20-2012, 01:31 PM
I still can't believe Leftwich hurt himself two different times in that game. Once by simply falling down on a score, untouched, and the other by being sacked.

feltdizz
11-20-2012, 01:43 PM
I still can't believe Leftwich hurt himself two different times in that game. Once by simply falling down on a score, untouched, and the other by being sacked.

The DB hit him on the way to the end zone..

that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Sugar
11-20-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm quite pleased that the Steelers kept Batch over Johnson. I'd rather see Batch starting against the Browns and believe that he gives the Steelers the best chance to win.

I remember the first preseason game against the Eagles - Nick Foles lit up the Steelers third and fourth stringers, and Johnson did very little. Well, Nick Foles is now starting and playing terribly. If Johnson was facing first team defenses, it would be a disaster.

I'm with you Philly. Johnson showed nothing to make anyone think he was a useful player in this league. At least Lefty and Batch had starting experience.

fezziwig
11-20-2012, 08:16 PM
Lefty and Batch were the smart moves. I would rather roll the dice with the veterans than a young kid that showed little. JJ had a couple of nice moments but with the backup QB on a potential Super Bowl team, you don't turn that over to inexperience. The only trouble with thier choice of QB'S, these two couldn't open their Christmas present without getting a paper cut.
Yeah, the front office better take a look into some backups that are a better fit than Batch, Leftwich and wet behind the ears draft pick types. Maybe we should draft high for a QB next season, like the second round or dare I say first round if this person has some worth as a future QB ?
I still think not too many teams will go far if their starting QB goes down and their backups need to take over. The only teams that usually do well or better when this happens are, teams that already stink and changing quarterbacks have little to no affect on the team because they find ways to lose in addition to poor quarterback play.

NorthCoast
11-20-2012, 08:19 PM
Lefty and Batch were the smart moves. I would rather roll the dice with the veterans than a young kid that showed little. JJ had a couple of nice moments but with the backup QB on a potential Super Bowl team, you don't turn that over to inexperience. The only trouble with thier choice of QB'S, these two couldn't open their Christmas present without getting a paper cut.
Yeah, the front office better take a look into some backups that are a better fit than Batch, Leftwich and wet behind the ears draft pick types. Maybe we should draft high for a QB next season, like the second round or dare I say first round if this person has some worth as a future QB ?
I still think not too many teams will go far if their starting QB goes down and their backups need to take over. The only teams that usually do well or better when this happens are, teams that already stink and changing quarterbacks have little to no affect on the team because they find ways to lose in addition to poor quarterback play.

I think the Niners would take issue with that.... Kaepernick looks like he could be a starter.

DukieBoy
11-20-2012, 08:30 PM
Kaepernick was slightly undervalued in his draft year, I thought. I think he's gonna prove out very well over time.

fezziwig
11-20-2012, 08:45 PM
Kaepernick was slightly undervalued in his draft year, I thought. I think he's gonna prove out very well over time.


i covered my tracks with, " not too many teams "

SDSteel1
11-20-2012, 08:45 PM
I thought they should have kept Johnson, and now after the fact it's very easy to see that neither Batch or Lefty would make it through a game. They are frail and old and don't fit the scheme with our offensive line and don't have the ability to move around and evade the rush or even take a hit for that matter. So if someone is claiming now that it isn't a FO failure they are blind, prior to Bens injury, no one would question having the 2 old experienced vets, but even seeing what has happened over the past few years when these guys had to play, even in the preseason, they can't take a hit. It's obvious that it's a huge failure and any one who says otherwise needs to take off the shades.

winwithd
11-20-2012, 10:03 PM
Batch made it through the Rams game last year. The year before that (I think) he finished up the Titans game when Dixon got hurt and then won the TB game and lost to Baltimore, although it was the defense that blew that one. But my point is that I think he has a bad reputation because of the one KC game where he got hurt on the first series he came in. I think has been a while since he has been hurt in a game. He will be fine til Ben gets back. I still say once we get AB back, with the way this D is playing that we will not lose another game. And now that we've got Plax for the Red Zone I am even more confident.

fezziwig
11-20-2012, 10:17 PM
I too believe Batch gets a bad rap for the KC game, it happens. Even as a Batch backer and a Lefty hopefull fan, I have to admit, " this should be the last season for both of them if the front office is smart.

DukieBoy
11-20-2012, 10:57 PM
Charlie can beat Cleveland. The Ravens will beat him to an old pulp with their blitzes. We best have two QB's in reserve of him.

fezziwig
11-20-2012, 11:26 PM
Charlie will be fine as long as he gets the protection. You pretty much knew Leftwich was going to be a three legged kitten, coverd in bacon fat among a pack of pitbulls. I know that's over the top but, with all his injuries I think I would take more pride saying, " I'm a three legged kitten covered in bacon juice and I just had my asss handed to me by a pack of wild dogs. What can Leftwich say besides, " I fall down and go boom. "

Did you hear some of the play calls Leftwich was calling during the game ? Here's a few I heard.

Black & Blue on 2, Black & Blue on 2 hike.

Stretcher on 3 Stretcher on 3 hike


I'm not sure if this was his last play call or his last words at the end of the game but, I thought he screamed out " Medic ! "


That TD Leftwich ran in on the first series, did he run that out of the rib bone formation ?


Sorry guys for being a tool about Leftwich and I hope he recovers quickly but, I'm still at work and I need the release about now.

papillon
11-20-2012, 11:58 PM
Sometime in the past two drafts the team should have gotten serious about drafting a young developmental QB. Not sure whether they didn't want to tick off Ben or what but we are pay the piper now for not doing that. The reality is that there really aren't any good back-ups in the league right or very, very few. The #1 guy goes down and every team struggles. Anyone watch the Bears last night without Cutler?

That is why I really think we will struggle the rest of the season. After watching the Browns play the Cowboys, I know they can beat us unless we play an "A" game in all facets of play. The Ravens can beat us again too.

Just watch how the rest of our season potentially ffalls apart and you will understand why Goodell is trying to protect starting QBs. The product just ends up being inferior.

If you draft a quarterback in one of the last two drafts and develop him to replace Ben he would probably be 28 or 29 when he sees the field for the first time. What "good" young quarterback wants to sit and learn for 8 or 9 years?

Pappy

fordfixer
11-21-2012, 12:14 AM
If you draft a quarterback in one of the last two drafts and develop him to replace Ben he would probably be 28 or 29 when he sees the field for the first time. What "good" young quarterback wants to sit and learn for 8 or 9 years?

Pappy
Gary Kubiak

SDSteel1
11-21-2012, 12:49 AM
If you draft a quarterback in one of the last two drafts and develop him to replace Ben he would probably be 28 or 29 when he sees the field for the first time. What "good" young quarterback wants to sit and learn for 8 or 9 years?

Pappy

It's the best job in the NFL...most QB's who come in and play, fail. It's not always their fault, but unless you are a top draft pick or a team makes a real investment in you you'd be better off carrying the clipboard for a few years to get the pension.

Sword
11-21-2012, 09:07 AM
we entered the season with Ben, Lefty and Batch...
That is the problem you listed 3. but, in my eye's it's only 1 and two ready for retirement. Your 2nd and 3rd string cannot be lefty and Batch together you need one
young good prospect behind Ben. Like when we had Ben as the backup!!!!

Sword
11-21-2012, 09:10 AM
If you draft a quarterback in one of the last two drafts and develop him to replace Ben he would probably be 28 or 29 when he sees the field for the first time. What "good" young quarterback wants to sit and learn for 8 or 9 years?

Pappy
sorry Ben only has 3-5 years left they need a great QB draft now!!!

fezziwig
11-21-2012, 09:36 AM
Unless some great QB is there at our draft slot I wouldn't take a QB at this time. Why pay a QB all that money that will sit the bench until his next contract ? I would wait two more seasons and then pick the qb of the future.
I did say earlier that picking a qb the second or first round this draft for a backup role if the guy shows sometype of arm and has more brains than happy legs. I take that back now about making him a first round because I forgot about the money that is involved with that pick and as I mentioned above, " why pay him to sit the bench and then need to sign him to a larger contract when, you really won't know what he is like because Ben being the man at the time. "

Shawn
11-21-2012, 09:44 AM
I think it's certainly a fail. I mean how hard is it to develop a capable young back up QB? We don't need another Ben on the bench, just a guy who can manage a game...not beat us and make a few throws within the context of a short ball, 3 step system. Instead we have old guys...one with a wind up you can time with a sun dial...and the other who takes metamucil in his gatorade. I mean really?

NorthCoast
11-21-2012, 10:21 AM
I think it's certainly a fail. I mean how hard is it to develop a capable young back up QB? We don't need another Ben on the bench, just a guy who can manage a game...not beat us and make a few throws within the context of a short ball, 3 step system. Instead we have old guys...one with a wind up you can time with a sun dial...and the other who takes metamucil in his gatorade. I mean really?

just spewed my morning coffee all over the monitor....LMFAO

papillon
11-21-2012, 03:28 PM
sorry Ben only has 3-5 years left they need a great QB draft now!!!

Even still, what quarterback that is highly regarded (2nd or 3rd round) wants to play behind Ben? Ben may play 1 year, 3 years, 5 years or 8 years, there is no way to tell, but based on Ben's ability to absorb hits and stay healthy I would look for Ben to be playing well into his 30s at this point. I just don't think it's a prudent draft scenario at this point and certainly not last year or year before, IMO.

Pappy

papillon
11-21-2012, 03:42 PM
I think it's certainly a fail. I mean how hard is it to develop a capable young back up QB? We don't need another Ben on the bench, just a guy who can manage a game...not beat us and make a few throws within the context of a short ball, 3 step system. Instead we have old guys...one with a wind up you can time with a sun dial...and the other who takes metamucil in his gatorade. I mean really?

I would have to say it's harder than you're giving credit, since when most teams have a backup in the game they tend to lose games. The Bears and Colts of last year come to mind. If it were easy to have a backup that can come in make a few throws in a 3 step drop system, manage the game and win games the teams above should have been able to make the playoffs last year.

Many teams, Jaguars, Bills, Miami, Jets have backup quarterbacks starting, so how would it be easy to groom a quarterback that isn't even good enough to earn a starting position on teams with "backups" as starters?

Having a capable backup is a luxury that teams can't afford in the salary cap era and the Steelers probably have two of the most capable backups on their roster. Unfortunately, one is now injured and the Steelers will have to use their 3rd string quarterback.

Pappy

Oviedo
11-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Even still, what quarterback that is highly regarded (2nd or 3rd round) wants to play behind Ben? Ben may play 1 year, 3 years, 5 years or 8 years, there is no way to tell, but based on Ben's ability to absorb hits and stay healthy I would look for Ben to be playing well into his 30s at this point. I just don't think it's a prudent draft scenario at this point and certainly not last year or year before, IMO.

Pappy

Ben will be around for another 5 years unless you push him out the door ala Brett Favre.

What we need to draft for NOW is a quality back up who can come into a game and perform not the future starter. That is something that is easier to find because of Haley's offense.

The future starter for Ben needs to be found in about 2-3 years and hopefully it doesn't take another 20+ years like it did between Bradshaw and Ben. The reality is we need to plan to have a losing season in 2-3 years so we are in positon to get our next starting QB.

papillon
11-21-2012, 03:51 PM
Ben will be around for another 5 years unless you push him out the door ala Brett Favre.

What we need to draft for NOW is a quality back up who can come into a game and perform not the future starter. That is something that is easier to find because of Haley's offense.

The future starter for Ben needs to be found in about 2-3 years and hopefully it doesn't take another 20+ years like it did between Bradshaw and Ben. The reality is we need to plan to have a losing season in 2-3 years so we are in position to get our next starting QB.

I just don't believe taking a quarterback in the draft to groom as a backup is prudent. First, if he's a rookie and has to play you're done. Second, if your starter remains healthy and you've groomed him for a few years and he gets into games and does well, he'll hit the free agent market and he'll be gone. If he doesn't do well, then you're done again. I would go the route of the Steelers and find a veteran that realizes his days of being a starting quarterback are done and keep him as the backup.

I thought the Steelers were in the best position in the league at quarterback having two veterans that have had some success in the NFL just in case the Steelers needed them. We'll see how it goes this weekend and next.

Pappy

SDSteel1
11-21-2012, 04:40 PM
I just don't believe taking a quarterback in the draft to groom as a backup is prudent. First, if he's a rookie and has to play you're done. Second, if your starter remains healthy and you've groomed him for a few years and he gets into games and does well, he'll hit the free agent market and he'll be gone. If he doesn't do well, then you're done again. I would go the route of the Steelers and find a veteran that realizes his days of being a starting quarterback are done and keep him as the backup.

I thought the Steelers were in the best position in the league at quarterback having two veterans that have had some success in the NFL just in case the Steelers needed them. We'll see how it goes this weekend and next.

Pappy

25 for 53 --274 yards 47.2 % -- 1 int -- 55.1 rating-- 3 broken ribs and a separated shoulder and fear of going to the 3rd string, a loss, and you have to wait until next week to decide if it was a bad decision? Come on Pap you are better than that!

hawaiiansteel
11-21-2012, 04:55 PM
Instead we have old guys...one with a wind up you can time with a sun dial...and the other who takes metamucil in his gatorade. I mean really?

that's funny stuff right there...:D

Steelerphile
11-21-2012, 05:16 PM
The thing about a developmental QB is that most young QBs need some playing time to develop. There are only a very few that can come in and do a really good job, right away. What you gain in their ability to absorb a hit, you might lose in their ability to process the info on the field and deliver quality results. So that is why I don't think going with Batch and Leftwich was such a bad decision. A developmental QB is mostly going to sit behind Big Ben. Batch had the fragile rep and then he went his last few appearances without being injured. So now he doesn't seem quite as fragile. I don't think Leftwich was considered fragile earlier in his career. He has been injured recently so he has the fragile rep. These type of reps rise and fall based on recent appearances. I always hope that if someone doesn't play much, like these guys, their bones will heal and be stronger, but maybe not. Leftwich is not old at 32 for the QB position, though.