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Oviedo
10-31-2012, 08:12 AM
And the adjustment is...more of the same!!!!



Published: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:24 p.m.
Updated 7 hours ago

There’s no need to think up any catchy sack-related nickname for these Steelers. Blitzburgh, it’s not.
They suit up an average of 23 players on defense every week, but they have only 12 sacks in seven games. J.J. Watt of the Houston Texans has 9 1⁄2 sacks by himself.
Jason Worilds (who played nine snaps Sunday against Washington) and Larry Foote lead with three sacks each.
At their present pace, the Steelers will finish with 27 sacks, the fewest since they had 19 in 1988. The team low for a 16-game season is 18 in 1980.
“We had only one sack (against the Redskins), but I think we did a great job of putting the pressure on,” outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley said.
The Giants have 21 sacks, led by Jason Pierre-Paul’s 51⁄2



Funny how Worilds who gets nothing but grief from many posters is one of the few players performing, even in a part-time basis

Shawn
10-31-2012, 08:19 AM
Worilds went untouched on 3 out of 3 of those sacks. It merely means other people were doing their job.

Slapstick
10-31-2012, 08:56 AM
Worilds went untouched on 3 out of 3 of those sacks. It merely means other people were doing their job.

...which is the entire point of the defense...

flippy
10-31-2012, 09:02 AM
This D just needs to figure out how to get pressure and turnovers by the playoffs.

Oviedo
10-31-2012, 09:05 AM
This D just needs to figure out how to get pressure and turnovers by the playoffs.

They need to figure out how to do it way before the play offs (like right now) or they won't be in the play offs

grotonsteel
10-31-2012, 09:15 AM
Woodley's Hammy, Troy unable to play due to injury and James Harrison trying to get into football form are the reasons for less sacks. I think things will turn around for Steelers D if these 3 players get healthy by playoff time.

ikestops85
10-31-2012, 11:57 AM
And the adjustment is...more of the same!!!!

So what would you have them do? We have sent the outside backers and got nothing. We have sent the 2 in the middle, which you say we didn't do enough, and got nothing. We have sent corners and safeties and still got nothing.

No matter what we do we are not getting consistent pressure on the QB. Just for once take a step back and look. You have to realize that we don't have the talent that we used to on defense. With Harrison and Woodley not at 100% we have a hard time rushing the passer no matter what the DC calls.

Do you want us to send the house on every passing down? Wouldn't that play into one of your pet peeves about LeBeau? That he is predictable. The most he can do is try and mix it up which means sometimes you guess right and sometimes you guess wrong.

flippy
10-31-2012, 12:17 PM
So what would you have them do? We have sent the outside backers and got nothing. We have sent the 2 in the middle, which you say we didn't do enough, and got nothing. We have sent corners and safeties and still got nothing.

No matter what we do we are not getting consistent pressure on the QB. Just for once take a step back and look. You have to realize that we don't have the talent that we used to on defense. With Harrison and Woodley not at 100% we have a hard time rushing the passer no matter what the DC calls.

Do you want us to send the house on every passing down? Wouldn't that play into one of your pet peeves about LeBeau? That he is predictable. The most he can do is try and mix it up which means sometimes you guess right and sometimes you guess wrong.

+1

Lebeau is sending lots of people and getting no results. We need guys to get healthy and young guys to step up.

I like what we've seen from Keenan and Cortez. Ziggy may be turning a corner. Worilds is getting a little more experience. I'd like to see a little more out of Heyward and McClendon. Then get us Woodley, Harrison, and Troy healthy.

The one thing I'd like to see Lebeau adjust is his use of Timmons. I think Lebeau overthinks it with Timmons and uses him to take something away from the opposing team. That may help the overall defense, but it sometimes takes Timmons out of the box and that in turn hurts our ability to make splash plays.

Maybe having Troy back will help. But keep Timmons in the box. Send him after the QB more. He could be the key to creating turnovers. But he can't do that covering downfield.

Oviedo
10-31-2012, 01:06 PM
So what would you have them do? We have sent the outside backers and got nothing. We have sent the 2 in the middle, which you say we didn't do enough, and got nothing. We have sent corners and safeties and still got nothing.

No matter what we do we are not getting consistent pressure on the QB. Just for once take a step back and look. You have to realize that we don't have the talent that we used to on defense. With Harrison and Woodley not at 100% we have a hard time rushing the passer no matter what the DC calls.

Do you want us to send the house on every passing down? Wouldn't that play into one of your pet peeves about LeBeau? That he is predictable. The most he can do is try and mix it up which means sometimes you guess right and sometimes you guess wrong.


I disagree. We have not sent Timmons enough. We have not switched Harrison and Woodley to different sides or put both on the same side. There are things we have not done.

Oviedo
10-31-2012, 01:08 PM
The one thing I'd like to see Lebeau adjust is his use of Timmons. I think Lebeau overthinks it with Timmons and uses him to take something away from the opposing team. That may help the overall defense, but it sometimes takes Timmons out of the box and that in turn hurts our ability to make splash plays.

Maybe having Troy back will help. But keep Timmons in the box. Send him after the QB more. He could be the key to creating turnovers. But he can't do that covering downfield.

Exactly what needs to happen. Timmons is our best weapon on defense right now to get the QB. Woodley and Harrison are broke and unreliable.

NW Steeler
10-31-2012, 01:41 PM
Worilds is hurt more than he plays. Looks like OLB may be moving to a high draft need along with safety. What is up with Chris Carter?

hawaiiansteel
10-31-2012, 02:36 PM
Funny how Worilds who gets nothing but grief from many posters is one of the few players performing, even in a part-time basis

Jason Worilds is good as a situational pass rusher, it's when he has to be an every down player that he has problems holding up against the run or dropping into pass coverage.

squidkid
10-31-2012, 02:56 PM
harrison didnt want anything to do with otas, mini camp and preseason games and the best way to do that was to not address his knee situation until the very last second
woodley got his huge contract so he decided it was okay to not get into shape and 'tweek' his hammy whenever he wants some time off
when these two guys sole responsibility is to pressure the qb and they are ineffective, mostly due to their own doing, its no wonder why the oppossing qbs have all day to carve up our secondary

feltdizz
10-31-2012, 02:57 PM
Exactly what needs to happen. Timmons is our best weapon on defense right now to get the QB. Woodley and Harrison are broke and unreliable.

have you seen JH in coverage? He is toast... while I would love to see Timmons blitz more I fear the outcome would be RB's and TE's running free down field.

papillon
10-31-2012, 02:57 PM
I disagree. We have not sent Timmons enough. We have not switched Harrison and Woodley to different sides or put both on the same side. There are things we have not done.

How often in the past have the Steelers swapped their OLBs? Very rare, if ever is my guess, I'm not sure, but it seems to me that Harrison plays his side and Woodley plays his side of the field, rarely swapping.

How often have the Steelers in the past put both Woodley and Harrison on the same side? See above

Why would they start doing these types of things in the middle of a game? I could be wrong and maybe the Steelers line up Harrison and Woodley on different sides of the field often and possibly both on the same side often, but I certainly don't remember them doing these types of things. I'm not sure starting now would be a good idea.

Pappy

Oviedo
10-31-2012, 03:02 PM
How often in the past have the Steelers swapped their OLBs? Very rare, if ever is my guess, I'm not sure, but it seems to me that Harrison plays his side and Woodley plays his side of the field, rarely swapping.

How often have the Steelers in the past put both Woodley and Harrison on the same side? See above

Why would they start doing these types of things in the middle of a game? I could be wrong and maybe the Steelers line up Harrison and Woodley on different sides of the field often and possibly both on the same side often, but I certainly don't remember them doing these types of things. I'm not sure starting now would be a good idea.

Pappy


Thank you for confirming that we just play the templated solution and don't think outside the box or try different things. That is exactly why the opponents know exactly what is coming.

Slapstick
10-31-2012, 03:13 PM
Thank you for confirming that we just play the templated solution and don't think outside the box or try different things. That is exactly why the opponents know exactly what is coming.

Whether they know what is coming or not, they still have to do something about it...and that is why the team defense needs to be sound and tackles need to be made...

papillon
10-31-2012, 03:23 PM
Thank you for confirming that we just play the templated solution and don't think outside the box or try different things. That is exactly why the opponents know exactly what is coming.

You're welcome (I knew this would be your response) and that's how the arguably one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL played. Change just for the sake of change is ludicrous. Why would you move pieces around as if a player that has played ROLB for his entire career could all of a sudden be the same force as a LOLB and vice versa? Or, implement a play with both backers on the same side never having practiced or schemed for it in all the years with D1ck Lebeau as DC? I know you want Lebeau gone, but making the types of changes you're talking about don't come without a learning curve, even for veterans.

Pappy

Oviedo
10-31-2012, 03:36 PM
You're welcome (I knew this would be your response) and that's how the arguably one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL played. Change just for the sake of change is ludicrous. Why would you move pieces around as if a player that has played ROLB for his entire career could all of a sudden be the same force as a LOLB and vice versa? Or, implement a play with both backers on the same side never having practiced or schemed for it in all the years with D1ck Lebeau as DC? I know you want Lebeau gone, but making the types of changes you're talking about don't come without a learning curve, even for veterans.

Pappy

Change for change sake? I think not. How about because the old "secret sauce" isn't working anymore. That is why we are on track for the fewest sacks in the past 25 years and we couldn't spell Interception let alone get one. It doesn't matter what happened last year or any year before that? History has nothing to do with what will happen this Sunday or in any of the following games.

It's not about wanting LeBeau gone as many want to characterize any discussion of the defense as a vendetta...like I have any power to make it happen. I just want him to do something not just put out the same thing week after week whether it works or not. Just seek continuous improvement and not try to be the same and hope it works out this week.

We are playing against the QB who has been sacked the fewest times in the NFL this season. Do you really think Harrison and Woodley are just going to have a light come on this week? That is why you gameplan for each specific game to put players in the position to be successful, exploit a specific opponents weaknesses and influence a positive outcome not just put them where they are comfortable.

papillon
10-31-2012, 04:00 PM
Change for change sake? I think not. How about because the old "secret sauce" isn't working anymore. That is why we are on track for the fewest sacks in the past 25 years and we couldn't spell Interception let alone get one. It doesn't matter what happened last year or any year before that? History has nothing to do with what will happen this Sunday or in any of the following games.

It's not about wanting LeBeau gone as many want to characterize any discussion of the defense as a vendetta...like I have any power to make it happen. I just want him to do something not just put out the same thing week after week whether it works or not. Just seek continuous improvement and not try to be the same and hope it works out this week.

We are playing against the QB who has been sacked the fewest times in the NFL this season. Do you really think Harrison and Woodley are just going to have a light come on this week? That is why you gameplan for each specific game to put players in the position to be successful, exploit a specific opponents weaknesses and influence a positive outcome not just put them where they are comfortable.

It has nothing to do with the "secret sauce", the players are losing their one on one match-ups more than they are winning them. The secret sauce still works, but the line cooks and sous chefs aren't quite as good as those in the past. Putting players out of position just to make a change just doesn't make any sense (to me anyhow). It's a long season and patience has always been a virtue for the Steeler organization and it will serve them well this year as well. You won't see players moving to different positions, but hopefully, what we may see is that some of the players that have been learning this year will start playing and reacting rather than thinking and then playing. The coaches groom players to play a certain position and hope they develop. We may be seeing some of those players develop on the fly this year and that would be a good thing.

Moving players from one position to another weakens two positions, it doesn't strengthen any positions. Woodley and Harrison have been successful (double digit sacks) never moving around the football field. Would you move Polamalu to FS, after all, it's another safety position, how difficult could it be for a HOFer to move form SS to FS? Would you move Ed Reed from FS to SS? Just another safety position, right?

The defense as a unit needs to continue to do the things they did this past week and if the offense can continue to chew up chunks of clock the defense will have limited exposure. This defense is probably only average and hopefully, by the end of the year they may be above average. They need the offense to be consistent; not a change of positions or leader.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
10-31-2012, 04:09 PM
Thank you for confirming that we just play the templated solution and don't think outside the box or try different things. That is exactly why the opponents know exactly what is coming.

And yet you prefer a change to a 4-3 defense, in which the opposition pretty much ALWAYS KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IS COMING. A 4 man front in which only the front 4 rush the passer the vast majority of the time is WAY more vanilla of a scheme than LeBeau's defense.

ikestops85
10-31-2012, 04:12 PM
I disagree. We have not sent Timmons enough. We have not switched Harrison and Woodley to different sides or put both on the same side. There are things we have not done.

Well, I went to the game against Philly and they did all of those things. They move Harrison to the left alongside Worilds and moved Timmons to the outside right. Harrison and Timmons lined up next to one another in the middle on several plays. I noticed them do similar things against Cincy the next game. A game where we seemed to make some changes at halftime and shut down the Bungles in the 2nd half. I don't think they did as much movement against the Deadskins probably because they were more concerned with containment of RGIII.

I don't think you realize how often we do this stuff. Mainly because it hasn't worked all that often this year. We can blitz all we want but if the opponent calls the right protection scheme and none of our guys are beating the one on one we are going to get burned in the secondary. That's what I think is happening this year.

Oviedo
10-31-2012, 04:12 PM
It has nothing to do with the "secret sauce", the players are losing their one on one match-ups more than they are winning them. The secret sauce still works, but the line cooks and sous chefs aren't quite as good as those in the past. Putting players out of position just to make a change just doesn't make any sense (to me anyhow). It's a long season and patience has always been a virtue for the Steeler organization and it will serve them well this year as well. You won't see players moving to different positions, but hopefully, what we may see is that some of the players that have been learning this year will start playing and reacting rather than thinking and then playing. The coaches groom players to play a certain position and hope they develop. We may be seeing some of those players develop on the fly this year and that would be a good thing.

Moving players from one position to another weakens two positions, it doesn't strengthen any positions. Woodley and Harrison have been successful (double digit sacks) never moving around the football field. Would you move Polamalu to FS, after all, it's another safety position, how difficult could it be for a HOFer to move form SS to FS? Would you move Ed Reed from FS to SS? Just another safety position, right?

The defense as a unit needs to continue to do the things they did this past week and if the offense can continue to chew up chunks of clock the defense will have limited exposure. This defense is probably only average and hopefully, by the end of the year they may be above average. They need the offense to be consistent; not a change of positions or leader.

Pappy

I'm talking about flipping Harrison and Woodley occasionally to change the match ups. We aren't talking about them playing safety or nose tackle. They are both in outside LB rush positions but we change the match ups and force the offense to change blocking schemes. That is not radical. The Ravens do it with Suggs all the time. Matthews does it with the Packers. But Lord forbid we do anything so radical.

When opponents have figured you out and have compensated you don't just tell players win your one on one match ups and it will be OK. The opponents are making sure you can't win those by adjusting. But we don't adjust, just more of the same.

Sugar
10-31-2012, 04:17 PM
I honestly don't care if they don't get another sack this year if they keep points off the board for our opponents and get off the field after third down.

focosteeler
10-31-2012, 04:29 PM
I honestly don't care if they don't get another sack this year if they keep points off the board for our opponents and get off the field after third down.

same here. I think sacks are an overrated stat.

hawaiiansteel
10-31-2012, 04:49 PM
same here. I think sacks are an overrated stat.

I agree, as long as there is pressure you don't necessarily need to get a sack.

Steelerphile
10-31-2012, 05:17 PM
I think the defense has played pretty well recently and doesn't at all seem vanilla to me. They are mixing things up well enough to keep the opposition off-balanced. I'll ride with LeBeau personally. I don't think age has much to do with being open to change or not. They are doing it without Polamalu and a less than 100% Harrison. Like less year, when the defense ranked No. 1 but was still roundly attacked, this No. 2 ranked defense is not getting enough credit. They may not be loaded with playmakers or getting a ton of sacks, but they have played good team defense for the most part. As usual, whomever they defeat, there are a lot of whines about the opposition stinking. NY Giants should be a good test, though.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-31-2012, 06:01 PM
will somebody please change the record?

this one is broken.

flippy
10-31-2012, 06:37 PM
Well, I went to the game against Philly and they did all of those things. They move Harrison to the left alongside Worilds and moved Timmons to the outside right. Harrison and Timmons lined up next to one another in the middle on several plays. I noticed them do similar things against Cincy the next game. A game where we seemed to make some changes at halftime and shut down the Bungles in the 2nd half. I don't think they did as much movement against the Deadskins probably because they were more concerned with containment of RGIII.

I don't think you realize how often we do this stuff. Mainly because it hasn't worked all that often this year. We can blitz all we want but if the opponent calls the right protection scheme and none of our guys are beating the one on one we are going to get burned in the secondary. That's what I think is happening this year.

I agree and think DL's been doing more to generate pressure this year than he ever has. He's been aware it's a talent issue for years. The one way he seems to be able to get pressure still in critical situations is lining both Timmons and Troy outside of Harrison/Woodley and he'll mix up the sides he puts those 2 on and sometimes he'll put them together on the same side.

I've also seen more of looping the OLBs/DEs behind the crossing ILBs.