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View Full Version : I thought ol' Wicker Basket was hopelessly senile and should have retired years ago?



RuthlessBurgher
10-29-2012, 02:26 PM
I don't hear anyone talking about sending our defensive coordinator to the nursing home after his defense, in back-to-back games, held a top notch weapon like A.J. Green to 1 catch (his per game average prior to playing us was 7 catches for 104 yards and a TD) and then shut down a multi-dimensional talent like RGIII (his completion percentage was over 70% coming into this game, but we held him to 47% yesterday...he also had 64 rushes for 468 yards and 6 rushing TD's coming in to this game, but we held him to 6 rushes for 8 yards and 0 TD's). He certainly didn't adjust his scheme to accommodate for the these uniquely skilled players one bit, because we know he is stubborn and incapable of changing a single thing about his beloved defense since he cannot possibly ever admit that his baby is ugly. Props to the old man who was born a mere 3 years after our team originally wore those bumblebee unis.

fordfixer
10-29-2012, 02:34 PM
:D:D:D:Clap:Clap:tt1:tt1

hawaiiansteel
10-29-2012, 02:52 PM
you will hear it once again the next time our defense doesn't play well, maybe as early as after this Sunday's game against the Giants.

be patient Grasshopper, the LeBeau naysayers are ready to pounce at the next opportunity...

flippy
10-29-2012, 02:58 PM
10 drops by Redskin receivers helped the cause this weekend. Nice assist by the rain.

I think Lebeau is still Lebeau but doesn't have the guys to get consistent QB pressure without blitzing and that's the crux of his problem. If we can get Harrison and Troy healthy by year end, we can get a lot better.

It's nice seeing some guys get more reps now. It could pay off down the line. It was nice seeing us do well without Troy or Clark. Nice game by Allen/Mundy.

flippy
10-29-2012, 03:00 PM
you will hear it once again the next time our defense doesn't play well, maybe as early as after this Sunday's game against the Giants.

be patient Grasshopper, the LeBeau naysayers are ready to pounce at the next opportunity...

The Giants are overrated imho. The parts of their last 2 games I saw, it looked like Dallas and Washington handed them the victory.

D Rock
10-29-2012, 03:04 PM
The Giants are overrated imho. The parts of their last 2 games I saw, it looked like Dallas and Washington handed them the victory.

Good thing the Steelers never do that for any teams...

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-29-2012, 03:08 PM
I predicted a win this week on the board because RG3 is a rookie, and LeBeau does well against them. Seems that the experienced QBs aren't as rattled by Wicky's schemes and find the open man in time.

If we can defensively beat the Giants I will feel a lot more confident that we are not built just to GET to the playoffs, but to WIN the Superbowl by beating the Mannings (both of them), Breeses, Bradys* etc. of the world as well.

Here we go, Steelers, here we go!!

Mister Pittsburgh
10-29-2012, 03:44 PM
10 drops by Redskin receivers helped the cause this weekend. Nice assist by the rain.

I think Lebeau is still Lebeau but doesn't have the guys to get consistent QB pressure without blitzing and that's the crux of his problem. If we can get Harrison and Troy healthy by year end, we can get a lot better.

It's nice seeing some guys get more reps now. It could pay off down the line. It was nice seeing us do well without Troy or Clark. Nice game by Allen/Mundy.

Cincy has one WR and Ike is best when locked on one man. He struggles in zone. And yes, Washington WR's dropped 2 TD's and a bunch of other passes.

lloydroid
10-29-2012, 03:46 PM
Well, much of the criticism was that DL couldn't adjust once he lost he best play makers. That still could be the case. He has Woodley, Clark and Harrison back, and that is making a difference. If we get Troy back, in a real way, DL will look even better. Rushing D still looks a little weak at times (only based on our standards). And, I think DL finally not making Ike play every WR 1-on-1 without any help is making a difference. Many feel you should be able to adjust DURING a game instead of a failed plan getting torched all day, and I see that point. I often wonder why they refuse to make adjustments at half time, at the very least. I sure wondered that during last year's play off loss.

Sugar
10-29-2012, 03:49 PM
They say that the team isn't as bad as the fans think in a loss and not as good as they think in a win. The same could be said of our D. The fact is that despite the drops by Washington WR's, we also didn't have Troy for the game or Clark for most of the second half. They adapted and overcame. Props to them for that if nothing else.

virgilbosetti
10-29-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm not calling for Lebeau's head....but I certainly wouldn't discount the fact that there were several wide open targets who conveniently dropped the ball. Opinions will vary on schematics, personnel, coaching, pressure up front, etc.......I blame all of the above to a varying degree.

Ataboys for Lebeau and the entire D for playing with some passion though.

Ghost
10-29-2012, 04:21 PM
his completion percentage was over 70% coming into this game, but we held him to 47% yesterday

This is a bit disingenuous without mentioning 10 dropped balls, ALL of them catchable. Even if we only add 7 out of 10 it bumps that up to 68%, right near his average. That wasn't the Steelers "holding" them. Guys were consistently wide open all over the field yesterday. They did do an excellent job of containing him in the run.

Love getting the W any way you can but lets not go heaping a ton of praise where it doesn't belong. The Steelers were very lucky the Skins' WRs acted as if the balls were dipped in grease.

Flasteel
10-29-2012, 04:41 PM
As I stated in another post, at least 4 of those "drops" were cases of our defender physically separating the ball from the receiver. Every team has 2 or 3 genuine drops per game (just as we did again yesterday), so you can't go back and play the "what if" game with those potential catches. The defense also deserves credit for renting space in the heads of those receivers by delivering a bunch of well-timed slobber-knockers.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-29-2012, 04:52 PM
As I stated in another post, at least 4 of those "drops" were cases of our defender physically separating the ball from the receiver. Every team has 2 or 3 genuine drops per game (just as we did again yesterday)

I will follow you on this point again in another thread Fla. As you pointed out, several of the "drops" were not actually drops. Furthermore, this was a game played in wet, imperfect conditions. These are the kinds of games you get in Pittsburgh, and one of the reasons why I always say that you can't compare numbers between guys like Rivers, Brees, and Manning vs. guys like Ben, Brady, and Favre when he was playing in Green Bay. Both sides have drops, and it is part of the game - moreso in the rain or cold.

And finally, at least one of the drops occurred on their TD drive. So, I don't think that you can say that that one drop cost them anything.

Oviedo
10-29-2012, 04:53 PM
10 drops by Redskin receivers helped the cause this weekend. Nice assist by the rain.

I think Lebeau is still Lebeau but doesn't have the guys to get consistent QB pressure without blitzing and that's the crux of his problem. If we can get Harrison and Troy healthy by year end, we can get a lot better.

It's nice seeing some guys get more reps now. It could pay off down the line. It was nice seeing us do well without Troy or Clark. Nice game by Allen/Mundy.

Well stated. The best defenders on the field yesterday were the Redskins' receivers. Two easy TDs dropped.

We have to improve our pass rush and get our Safeties healthy. Not sure Harrison can get there this year. He doesn't seem to have any explosion.

Many want to characterize this as a personal like or dislike for Ol' Coach leBeau. That has never been the case. The issue the supporters and detractors have comes down to an issue of willingness to make changes and adjust. Some think he never needs to and some think he should have already. There is a case to be made on both sides.

RuthlessBurgher
10-29-2012, 08:01 PM
This is a bit disingenuous without mentioning 10 dropped balls, ALL of them catchable. Even if we only add 7 out of 10 it bumps that up to 68%, right near his average. That wasn't the Steelers "holding" them. Guys were consistently wide open all over the field yesterday. They did do an excellent job of containing him in the run.

Love getting the W any way you can but lets not go heaping a ton of praise where it doesn't belong. The Steelers were very lucky the Skins' WRs acted as if the balls were dipped in grease.

The drops RGIII had to deal with yesterday weren't nearly as egregious as the drops Ben had to deal with in Cincy the week before (and Ben still completed 73% of his passes that day in spite of all of those drops).

Shoe
10-29-2012, 08:22 PM
Cincy has one WR and Ike is best when locked on one man. He struggles in zone. And yes, Washington WR's dropped 2 TD's and a bunch of other passes.

1) Ike Thomas sucks in man and zone. Sucks is harsh, but don't get it twisted. In the case of AJ Green, it is inexplicable why he didn't get fed the ball two weeks ago. Ike Thomas' coverage had very little to do with it.

2) "Ten drops" by the Redskins is being dramatic. Of course, I watched the game like you all. At least one of the drops was tipped before it got to the WR. It wasn't TEN drops.

Ghost
10-29-2012, 08:43 PM
The drops RGIII had to deal with yesterday weren't nearly as egregious as the drops Ben had to deal with in Cincy the week before (and Ben still completed 73% of his passes that day in spite of all of those drops).

Thats not what you said though. If you want to give credit that's undeserved feel free but watching the game and i know different, as does the entire sporting world. There were continuous drops that had nothing to do with the Steelers secondary. Wide open guys dropped passes right in their hands. That's not the Steelers holding RG in check. That's crappy play by the skins.

virgilbosetti
10-29-2012, 08:46 PM
I think it was 8 drops and they shouldn't be discounted. One was a for sure TD, not defended.....one would have been a TD but it was defended prior to finding the hands of the intended target. Wouldn't even count that one. Some others were for first downs and or drive killers.

hawaiiansteel
10-29-2012, 09:08 PM
1) Ike Thomas sucks in man and zone. Sucks is harsh, but don't get it twisted. In the case of AJ Green, it is inexplicable why he didn't get fed the ball two weeks ago. Ike Thomas' coverage had very little to do with it.



the same could be said for Ike Taylor...;)

Sugar
10-29-2012, 09:11 PM
I think it was 8 drops and they shouldn't be discounted. One was a for sure TD, not defended.....one would have been a TD but it was defended prior to finding the hands of the intended target. Wouldn't even count that one. Some others were for first downs and or drive killers.

Drops happen. Ask Baron Batch or Mike Wallace.

virgilbosetti
10-29-2012, 09:20 PM
Sure they do....and they can be big.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-29-2012, 09:32 PM
1) Ike Thomas sucks in man and zone. Sucks is harsh, but don't get it twisted. In the case of AJ Green, it is inexplicable why he didn't get fed the ball two weeks ago. Ike Thomas' coverage had very little to do with it.

2) "Ten drops" by the Redskins is being dramatic. Of course, I watched the game like you all. At least one of the drops was tipped before it got to the WR. It wasn't TEN drops.

Ike Thomas?

virgilbosetti
10-29-2012, 09:43 PM
J. T. Thomas?

Starlifter
10-30-2012, 02:11 AM
dick lebeau is a great defensive coordinator. no doubt about it. my issues have been the fact that over the last few years, we're good at keeping opponents points low - but not good at stopping them in the 4th quarter. while the last 2 games have been refreshing, i'm still struggling to see how we made horrible teams like oakland and tennessee look like the GB packers offense. i don't think we outsmart opponents as much as we used to, it seems the zone blitz has been around long enough the league has adapted enough to reduce it's impact. i think the younger guys haven't stepped up as much as we had hoped and we (overall) are not as physically dominating as we've been in years past. it's not one thing. it's not DL. it's not the age. it's not the scheme. it's all things in combination that have resulted in just a little bit 'less' overall. that little bit has caused us to lose two on the last play of the game.

we've got some big tests yet ahead. let's wait and get past the rats before we declare all things solved. the rats built an offense specifically to beat our zone blitz. it sure worked well on flacco's last drive last year and that made all the difference in the playoffs. i've been frustrated by the uneven play this year but i didn't declare the season over after the first 3 games and i'm not going to declare playoffs after beating the bungles and a rookie.

time will tell, as always.

hawaiiansteel
10-30-2012, 02:19 AM
wicker basket lebeau is a great defensive coordinator.


there, I fixed it for you...:D

BradshawsHairdresser
10-30-2012, 08:41 AM
This is a bit disingenuous without mentioning 10 dropped balls, ALL of them catchable. Even if we only add 7 out of 10 it bumps that up to 68%, right near his average. That wasn't the Steelers "holding" them. Guys were consistently wide open all over the field yesterday. They did do an excellent job of containing him in the run.

Love getting the W any way you can but lets not go heaping a ton of praise where it doesn't belong. The Steelers were very lucky the Skins' WRs acted as if the balls were dipped in grease.

$$$
The Skins make a few of those catches, and we'd have another "LeBeau must go" thread going on this board.

Let's see how we fare the next couple of games before we pronounce this D as being "back."

papillon
10-30-2012, 11:02 AM
Talking about the drops as to why the defense played well is like eliminating the 45 yard run from a running back and using only the other carriers to prove a back didn't really have a good game. Drops, unforced or otherwise are part of an entire game and are what they are. Did the defense cause them? Maybe Were some just bad plays? Yes Did the Steelers make any bad plays? Yes, an unnecessary block in the back took 7 points off the board. It's a game played for 60 minutes and things will happen, some good and some bad, the defense played well, trying to turn it into something it isn't foolish, IMO.

Should've, could've and would've can change the outcome of every game, but the reality is that none of it happened. Enjoy the win and hope for another great effort this weekend against the Giants.

Oh, and to stay on topic, D1ck Lebeau has forgotten more about coaching a defense in the NFL than anyone on this board knows, just sayin.

Pappy

flippy
10-30-2012, 11:57 AM
D1ck Lebeau has forgotten more about coaching a defense in the NFL than anyone on this board knows, just sayin.

Pappy

Who cares about us knuckleheads? It's opposing coaches I'm more concerned about vs DL. ;)

Oviedo
10-30-2012, 12:00 PM
Oh, and to stay on topic, D1ck Lebeau has forgotten more about coaching a defense in the NFL than anyone on this board knows, just sayin.

Pappy


No doubt you are right, but how do you know he hasn't forgotten all the good stuff that works? Like how to hold onto a 4th Quarter lead! Like how to be aggressive and generate sacks and turnovers! You typically don't get to pick and choose what you forget!

virgilbosetti
10-30-2012, 02:40 PM
Ton of good points here, but not sure a hard stance either way is all that beneficial from a coaches perspective.

One could use the RB example both ways. Not that it's wrong, but it all needs taken with the proper perspective....glass half full/glass half empty. Any Defensive coach looking to make his unit more productive can't ignore the drops. Guys were simply wide open. Weather they dropped the pass or caught it is moot for locating areas of development.....strengths vs. weaknesses, etc.. Any future OC game planning with film from the Redskins game will see what worked and what didn't work. How would you count a dropped pass play? Something to consider running? I say absolutely.

An offensive game plan was able to exploit a weakness.....it happens, but can we stop it next week? That is the question DL is asking himself, and asking his D coaches. Don't fool yourself....he's asking it.

BradshawsHairdresser
10-30-2012, 03:24 PM
Talking about the drops as to why the defense played well is like eliminating the 45 yard run from a running back and using only the other carriers to prove a back didn't really have a good game. Drops, unforced or otherwise are part of an entire game and are what they are. Did the defense cause them? Maybe Were some just bad plays? Yes Did the Steelers make any bad plays? Yes, an unnecessary block in the back took 7 points off the board. It's a game played for 60 minutes and things will happen, some good and some bad, the defense played well, trying to turn it into something it isn't foolish, IMO.

Should've, could've and would've can change the outcome of every game, but the reality is that none of it happened. Enjoy the win and hope for another great effort this weekend against the Giants.

Oh, and to stay on topic, D1ck Lebeau has forgotten more about coaching a defense in the NFL than anyone on this board knows, just sayin.

Pappy

All I'm saying is that I saw a lot of open Washington receivers. The Redskins couldn't capitalize on that...but I suspect a lot of other teams in the NFL would.
I'm not yet sold on this version of the Steel Curtain D.

Oviedo
10-30-2012, 03:51 PM
All I'm saying is that I saw a lot of open Washington receivers. The Redskins couldn't capitalize on that...but I suspect a lot of other teams in the NFL would.
I'm not yet sold on this version of the Steel Curtain D.

As I said, with only three DL and the leads we give up we can't be a "Steel Curtain," Right now we are more an aluminum mini-blind!

lloydroid
10-30-2012, 03:58 PM
All I'm saying is that I saw a lot of open Washington receivers. The Redskins couldn't capitalize on that...but I suspect a lot of other teams in the NFL would.
I'm not yet sold on this version of the Steel Curtain D.

Get our starting safeties out there and there will be less open guys.

papillon
10-30-2012, 07:15 PM
All I'm saying is that I saw a lot of open Washington receivers. The Redskins couldn't capitalize on that...but I suspect a lot of other teams in the NFL would.
I'm not yet sold on this version of the Steel Curtain D.

I'm not sold on them either, my only point is that in general the past two games the defense has played well. Is it because the other team made mistakes? Quite likely -- Is any of it because the Steelers were hitting hard and meeting the receiver and the ball simultaneously? Quite likely --

In general the things that have ailed the defense all year were mitigated in the past two games to the point that the defense has looked good. I'm not sold on the defense and would rather Ben have the ball at the end of the game with a lead or trailing. I've thought that way even when the defense was top notch. I've had more faith in Ben than I have the defense regardless of the year.

Drops happen, catches happen, blocks in the back haoppen it's all part of the game. When a team executes without error you get a blowout, when they don't you get close games.

Pappy

papillon
10-30-2012, 07:17 PM
No doubt you are right, but how do you know he hasn't forgotten all the good stuff that works? Like how to hold onto a 4th Quarter lead! Like how to be aggressive and generate sacks and turnovers! You typically don't get to pick and choose what you forget!

I don't know what he forgot (if anything) and what he remembers, but since the defense has been playing better and really weren't that horrible the first 4 games I have to lean towards D1ck Lebeau still understanding how to run an NFL quality defense.

Pappy

Steelhere10
10-30-2012, 07:44 PM
Don't worry, he will not blitz Manning at all and let him pick us apart. It didn't surprise me about RG3 , because he always play rookies like that but it's the elite QB's he is afraid of. Talk to me after this weeks game!

Steelhere10
10-30-2012, 07:57 PM
On a side note, did anyone see Keith Butler coaching up the whole defense. It was either during the game or on the pre game show.

Eich
10-30-2012, 10:48 PM
Don't worry, he will not blitz Manning at all and let him pick us apart. It didn't surprise me about RG3 , because he always play rookies like that but it's the elite QB's he is afraid of. Talk to me after this weeks game!

How did he play Brady last year?

Our D has it's ups and downs. Some of the downs are dictated by the execution of the players available at the time, as much as Lebeau's scheme.

jj28west
10-31-2012, 05:22 AM
I wish Ike Taylor could learn from Ike Thomas and play like him every week.