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View Full Version : Before we crucify the Iggy draft pick...



lloydroid
10-23-2012, 06:38 PM
....look at who was still out there at the same point in the draft.

Not overwhelming me with players any better than him. As a matter of fact, a lot of the dudes taken after are already out of football.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2009

Shady McCoy, Phil Loadholt, not much more than that. So, in hindsight, he wasn't such a bad pick considering who else was still available.

RuthlessBurgher
10-23-2012, 06:43 PM
I think most wanted Animal Jr. there

http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball/images/laurinaitis_0916pd.jpg http://www.clevescene.com/binary/e46c/1250273977-laurinaitis.jpg 680

lloydroid
10-23-2012, 06:48 PM
http://www.nfl.com/player/jameslaurinaitis/79850/profile

This guy has been OK, nothing great.

hawaiiansteel
10-23-2012, 06:50 PM
I would gladly take LeSean McCoy over Ziggy...

RuthlessBurgher
10-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Personally, I was a huge Alex Mack guy that year. It killed me when Cleveland traded down 14 times in the first round and took him. I also thought Jarron Gilbert was a guy with some intriguing potential (so that shows what I know).

flippy
10-23-2012, 06:53 PM
I think most wanted Animal Jr. there

http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball/images/laurinaitis_0916pd.jpg http://www.clevescene.com/binary/e46c/1250273977-laurinaitis.jpg 680

How in the heck did I not know that was Animal's son? I used to love the Road Warriors as a kid.

SteelBucks
10-23-2012, 07:09 PM
I think most wanted Animal Jr. there

http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball/images/laurinaitis_0916pd.jpg http://www.clevescene.com/binary/e46c/1250273977-laurinaitis.jpg 680

Agreed. Even Laurinaitis, in a post draft interview, thought he was going to be a Steeler when he fell to the end of the first round.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-23-2012, 07:25 PM
I remember thinking eric wood was going to be a kind of sneaky pick.

buffalo may have surprised us there as he was generally rated late 1st-mid 2nd.

that was a weak draft in that area, no doubt.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-23-2012, 07:53 PM
http://www.nfl.com/player/jameslaurinaitis/79850/profile

This guy has been OK, nothing great.

We don't draft white LB's.

hawaiiansteel
10-23-2012, 08:06 PM
We don't draft white LB's.

http://www.sportsblink.com/product_images/jack-ham-jack-lambert-andy-russell-pittsburgh-steelers-multi-autographed-photograph-inscriptions-3370946.jpg

Mister Pittsburgh
10-23-2012, 08:21 PM
http://www.sportsblink.com/product_images/jack-ham-jack-lambert-andy-russell-pittsburgh-steelers-multi-autographed-photograph-inscriptions-3370946.jpg

I knew someone would pull this out. When was this? Olsavsky & Green the only others? What draft grade did we have on Lee? Sorry, but it will take a while to let that one go.

hawaiiansteel
10-23-2012, 09:41 PM
http://www.nfl.com/player/jameslaurinaitis/79850/profile

This guy has been OK, nothing great.

James Laurinaitis is currently 2nd in the NFL in tackles, sounds pretty good to me.

hawaiiansteel
10-24-2012, 01:56 AM
IWhat draft grade did we have on Lee? Sorry, but it will take a while to let that one go.

this might help you to let it go:


Sources: Sean Lee to have surgery

Updated: October 24, 2012,
By Ed Werder and Todd Archer | ESPN.com

Sean Lee's season is over.

The Cowboys' inside linebacker will have surgery on his right big toe, according to sources, with a full recovery expected for 2013. The Cowboys feared Lee would need surgery but had held out a slim hope of a comeback but by late Tuesday, those hopes were extinguished.

The Cowboys are deep at the linebacker position but defensive co-captain Sean Lee's contributions are irreplaceable, Dan Graziano writes. Blog

Running back Felix Jones had a similar surgery in 2008 and has not had any issues with the toe since.

Lee suffered the injury in the third quarter of Sunday's win at Carolina. A second MRI on Tuesday confirmed significant ligament damage. He has the most severe case of turf toe with a complete tear.

Some players in the past have been able to play with milder cases of turf toe.

The Cowboys view Lee as a long-time piece to the future of the team, but he has had trouble staying healthy. He almost had his 2011 season come to an end with a dislocated left wrist but managed to miss only one game and played the rest of the season with a cast. He missed two games in 2010 with a hamstring injury after coming in with a knee injury.

Lee leads the Cowboys in tackles with 77 in the first six games, according to the coaches' film. He has two tackles for loss, eight quarterback pressures, one interception, two pass deflections and a forced fumble.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8543999/sources-sean-lee-dallas-cowboys-season-ending-toe-surgery

phillyesq
10-24-2012, 11:22 AM
I remember thinking eric wood was going to be a kind of sneaky pick.

buffalo may have surprised us there as he was generally rated late 1st-mid 2nd.

that was a weak draft in that area, no doubt.

Yeah, I thought there was a good chance that the pick was going to be Wood as well. I was not a big Max Unger fan, and I'm not sure how he's done, but I know he was in the conversation.

In hindsight, McCoy would have been a great pick, but I couldn't see the Steelers drafting him in the first after investing a first rounder in Mendenhall.

That was a very weak in the late first/early second area.

NJ-STEELER
10-24-2012, 02:54 PM
there's a lot of guys who i'd take there over hood.

Slapstick
10-24-2012, 02:59 PM
there's a lot of guys who i'd take there over hood.

Really? Did you actually read that list of draft picks?

And which one of those guys would have stepped in and played as well as Hood did when Aaron Smith was out? None...

There's nothing wrong with Hood...

phillyesq
10-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Really? Did you actually read that list of draft picks?

And which one of those guys would have stepped in and played as well as Hood did when Aaron Smith was out? None...

There's nothing wrong with Hood...

There is also nothing about his performance consistent with the use of a first round pick.

RuthlessBurgher
10-24-2012, 04:26 PM
Mike Wallace would have been a better pick. :stirpot

lloydroid
10-24-2012, 04:39 PM
I would gladly take LeSean McCoy over Ziggy...

Of course, in hindsight, yes. But my point was that it is a pretty short list over what better picks were out there. I only see McCoy and Loadholt as possible better picks. It's rare that, in hindsight, you can't find A LOT of better picks taken after the first round pick you do take. Also, didn't we supposedly have a franchise back (Mendenhall) already on the roster at the time of the Ziggy pick? Again, in hindsight, it would have been better to take McCoy even with RM on the roster, but hindsight is 20-20. My point was that even _WITH_ hindsight, Ziggy wasn't such a bad pick. He is at least still in the NFL and starting. Maybe he isn't dominant, but what D-lineman really is in our 3-4 system? Not many.

lloydroid
10-24-2012, 04:41 PM
We don't draft white LB's.

I seem to remember a Jerry O., Bryan Hinkle, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Vrable...but maybe you meant with the current regime.

lloydroid
10-24-2012, 04:43 PM
James Laurinaitis is currently 2nd in the NFL in tackles, sounds pretty good to me.

Yea, that does sound pretty good, but I was looking at his career stats - nothing special. Of course, now that Fisher is there, the D will get better, of course.

lloydroid
10-24-2012, 04:46 PM
there's a lot of guys who i'd take there over hood.

Out of the entire rest of the draft? Perhaps, but let's not be disingenuous here. No fair picking out sleepers who were drafted much later who ended up being surprise players. To be fair, we should stick to the known, rated players taken no later than 30 picks after Hood. Go ahead and tell me which one of those players would be better picks. I only saw 2, and that is very low when applying hindsight to a draft. VERY low.

SidSmythe
10-24-2012, 04:49 PM
LeSean McCoy??? 1 year after drafting Mendenhall in the 1st round. I'm sure that would have went over well.

NJ-STEELER
10-24-2012, 04:52 PM
He is at least still in the NFL and starting. Maybe he isn't dominant, but what D-lineman really is in our 3-4 system? Not many.

which begs the question of why are we drafting DEs in the 1st round if we need them to first sit and learn a new technique and 2. occupy blockers

do we really need the better pedigree of the draft class to do that?

Oviedo
10-24-2012, 04:58 PM
which begs the question of why are we drafting DEs in the 1st round if we need them to first sit and learn a new technique and 2. occupy blockers

do we really need the better pedigree of the draft class to do that?

Been sayin that for a couple of years. We waste DL talent

lloydroid
10-24-2012, 09:19 PM
Been sayin that for a couple of years. We waste DL talent

We didn't use to; since converting to the 3-4, most of our DEs have come in the 3rd round and later. The Hood/Heyward picks were exceptions to the recent rules. And, as of right now, they don't seem to be panning out as being as valuable as high as they were picked.

phillyesq
10-25-2012, 12:39 PM
Been sayin that for a couple of years. We waste DL talent

Ziggy plays plenty of snaps as a traditional DT in passing downs and does not show much there, either.

Slapstick
10-25-2012, 01:31 PM
Ziggy plays plenty of snaps as a traditional DT in passing downs and does not show much there, either.

...except when he's knocking down passes at the LoS...

phillyesq
10-25-2012, 01:51 PM
...except when he's knocking down passes at the LoS...

His knockdowns against the bungles were the first he had this season. It's not like he's a JJ Watt type knocking down everything thrown to his side of the field.

Oviedo
10-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Ziggy plays plenty of snaps as a traditional DT in passing downs and does not show much there, either.

You and I have a different view of a "traditional DT" in passing downs. For me it is four DL with their hands down getting ready to tear after the QB. We put two DL down. I don't see that as the same.

hawaiiansteel
10-25-2012, 02:25 PM
You and I have a different view of a "traditional DT" in passing downs. For me it is four DL with their hands down getting ready to tear after the QB. We put two DL down. I don't see that as the same.

Ovi longs for the good old days...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/137448/Steel_Curtain.jpg

phillyesq
10-25-2012, 03:46 PM
You and I have a different view of a "traditional DT" in passing downs. For me it is four DL with their hands down getting ready to tear after the QB. We put two DL down. I don't see that as the same.

When you advocate moving to a 4-3, you discuss Woodley as a DE. On passing downs, you often see Woodley - Hood - Keisel - Harrison. Whether or not Woodley's hand is on the ground, Hood is playing a DT position and is charged with rushing the passer.

Oviedo
10-25-2012, 03:57 PM
Ovi longs for the good old days...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/137448/Steel_Curtain.jpg

Pretty simple for me FOUR Super Bowls as a 4-3 team and TWO Super Bowls as a 3-4 team. Since the 4-3 has the number four as the first number that is why we won four. If we stick with the 3-4 the max we can win is one more Super Bowl. However, since we broke the chain by going to the 3-4 if we go back to the 4-3 we reset the count and we can win four more. It all just aligns perfectly.

I don't know why some of you can't figure these things out.:)

hawaiiansteel
10-25-2012, 05:42 PM
Pretty simple for me FOUR Super Bowls as a 4-3 team and TWO Super Bowls as a 3-4 team. Since the 4-3 has the number four as the first number that is why we won four. If we stick with the 3-4 the max we can win is one more Super Bowl. However, since we broke the chain by going to the 3-4 if we go back to the 4-3 we reset the count and we can win four more. It all just aligns perfectly.

I don't know why some of you can't figure these things out.:)


I'm following your logic.

we won 4 Super Bowls with the 4-3, so we're destined to win 3 more Super Bowls with the 3-4.

since we've only won 2 Super Bowls with the 3-4 so far, let's wait for the inevitable one more Lombardi Trophy and then re-visit this discussion at that time. :D

Oviedo
10-25-2012, 06:15 PM
I'm following your logic.

we won 4 Super Bowls with the 4-3, so we're destined to win 3 more Super Bowls with the 3-4.

since we've only won 2 Super Bowls with the 3-4 so far, let's wait for the inevitable one more Lombardi Trophy and then re-visit this discussion at that time. :D

But you are missing the key dynamic. When were a "Steel Curtain" we had four men and that was truly a curtain. With three men you can't be a "Steel Curtain." All you can really be anything more than an aluminum mini-blind. Just doesn't work in the same traditional sense.

SteelAbility
10-25-2012, 06:50 PM
....look at who was still out there at the same point in the draft.

Not overwhelming me with players any better than him. As a matter of fact, a lot of the dudes taken after are already out of football.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2009

Shady McCoy, Phil Loadholt, not much more than that. So, in hindsight, he wasn't such a bad pick considering who else was still available.

Before we crucify the Iggy draft pick let's first crucify Iggy. Then we can move on to the draft pick. ;)