Lawrence Timmons was a beast today!

[Dee Dub]

...and as I said in another thread I don't think it is a coincidence or a fluke since LeBeau actual used him to his strength (blitzing-getting after the QB). And I'l make a bold statement here that some may laugh at, but if he is used like this on a regular basis, it may be in the teams best interests to build this defense (and play calling), around him. Especially since Polamalu cant stay healthy. Get a legit run-stuffer next to Timmons and then turn him loose to do what he does best. Move him around and create match-up/accountability problems for the opposing offenses.

Oh and how good would LSU ILB Kevin Minter or even (a long shot), Notre Dame's Manti Te'o look next to Timmons?!!!

[Eddie Spaghetti]

lol.

one game bro.

[DukieBoy]

Unleash Hell? Just unleash Timmons. He was a disruptive beast today.

[Dee Dub]

Unleash Hell? Just unleash Timmons. He was a disruptive beast today. Yeah it is interesting to see how he plays when he is actually used to his strength.

[hawaiiansteel]

Yeah it is interesting to see how he plays when he is actually used to his strength.

wow, what a concept! :Clap

[flippy]

The whole defense look refreshed. We had more pressure this week than we've had all season.

Timmons looked like the best defender in the NFL in the first half.

And this defense was doing it mostly without Troy or Woodley for most of the game.

Is Philly's OLine that bad? Or does Harrison make that much of a difference?

Harrison and Worldis make a good duo. I also noticed a lot of McClendon this week.

[hawaiiansteel]

The whole defense look refreshed. We had more pressure this week than we've had all season.

Timmons looked like the best defender in the NFL in the first half.

And this defense was doing it mostly without Troy or Woodley for most of the game.

Is Philly's OLine that bad? Or does Harrison make that much of a difference?

Harrison and Worldis make a good duo. I also noticed a lot of Mclendon this week.


nice sacks by Worilds, Ziggy and McLendon today! :tt2

[Oviedo]

...and as I said in another thread I don't think it is a coincidence or a fluke since LeBeau actual used him to his strength (blitzing-getting after the QB). And I'l make a bold statement here that some may laugh at, but if he is used like this on a regular basis, it may be in the teams best interests to build this defense (and play calling), around him. Especially since Polamalu cant stay healthy. Get a legit run-stuffer next to Timmons and then turn him loose to do what he does best. Move him around and create match-up/accountability problems for the opposing offenses.

Oh and how good would LSU ILB Kevin Minter or even (a long shot), Notre Dame's Manti Te'o look next to Timmons?!!!

It's not the players. Use them right and don't put them into a template defense and they will excel. You design the defense around the players not force the players into the defense.

[Dee Dub]

It's not the players. Use them right and don't put them into a template defense and they will excel. You design the defense around the players not force the players into the defense.

:Clap Agreed! If Troy is going to be hurt as often as he has it's time to turn Timmons loose. Move him around and ask him to come forward more than you have asked him to back peddle.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

you guys crack me up.

timmons plays a great half and you want to design the defense around him.

good luck with that.

[pittpete]

you guys crack me up.

timmons plays a great half and you want to design the defense around him.

good luck with that.

I agree, more consistency is needed before I can agree to that statement.

Or does Harrison make that much of a difference?

675

[Oviedo]

I agree, more consistency is needed before I can agree to that statement.


675


If he is allowed to play the way he did today attacking the QB and the LOS I believe we will see more of what we saw today. If he is asked to play passive then we will see inconsistencies.

[Snatch98]

you guys crack me up.

timmons plays a great half and you want to design the defense around him.

good luck with that.

Admittedly Timmons hasn't been lights out consistent but he's been asked to do a lot as an injury replacement in seasons past. He did have one really good season and he IS that kind of athlete. As in the athlete you CAN build the defense around. Personally I don't think it's that crazy. He's fast, explosive and he's not brain dead. He's just been inconsistent BUt as mentioned above asked to play out of position quite a bit. Timmons can be our Patrick Willis. It's just a matter of him showing up week after week.

[NJ-STEELER]

one good thing i saw.

first time i've seen him get blocked on the blitz pick up by the RB and he still got to the QB

[NJ-STEELER]

Admittedly Timmons hasn't been lights out consistent but he's been asked to do a lot as an injury replacement in seasons past. He did have one really good season and he IS that kind of athlete. As in the athlete you CAN build the defense around. Personally I don't think it's that crazy. He's fast, explosive and he's not brain dead. He's just been inconsistent BUt as mentioned above asked to play out of position quite a bit. Timmons can be our Patrick Willis. It's just a matter of him showing up week after week.

dont know if anyone else in the league can be willis. that guy is a monster

[phillyesq]

I'm among the biggest critics of Timmons, and I'm very glad to say that he had an excellent game today. Need to see more of the same on Thursday and going forward.

[Djfan]

And, yes, Harrison is just that good.

[Steelerphile]

Timmons has that much ability. He could be the player he was on Sunday much more than he has been. It is about his effort, more than the way coaches use him or his weight. LeBeau did seem to have some different designs in the defense, but even when Timmons didn't rush, his pursuit was great. I think he came to the realization that he is the best playmaker on defense now and more is required of him.

[Oviedo]

lol.

one game bro.

Don't let an outstanding performance get in the way of your "agenda"

[Ghost]

It was fun watching Timmons play today. When's the last time that happened? Just pure fun watching him wreak havoc all over the field. Hopefully they watch the tape and concentrate on finding a way for that to happen game after game.

Curious wht you guys thought of Hampton? I tried to pick him out on a bunch of plays and thought he was completely ineffective. Made NO difference at all. It was sad.

[Eich]

I'm trying not to get too excited by the play of Timmons and the overall pressure we were able to get. Philly's OL is the worse we've seen so far.

[steelz09]

I'm among the biggest critics of Timmons, and I'm very glad to say that he had an excellent game today. Need to see more of the same on Thursday and going forward.

:Agree Yup, same here.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

Don't let an outstanding performance get in the way of your "agenda"

you said it. One outstanding performance.

lets see timmons do it for 4 or 5 games in a row before showering him with praise and designing the defense around him.

but timmons has always been one of your boys, so I expect nothing less from you and the constant stream of excuses when he doesn't play well. Like the 1st three games this year.

[Slapstick]

Whether you like Timmons or not, the Steelers have spent a lot of money on him...and LaMarr Woodley as well...

Therefore, it would only be smart and a good use of resources to build the defense around what he and Woodley do well...for awhile, the defense was build around Harrison and Polamalu...it can't be after this year...

Yesterday, Timmons not only played better, the reason he did is because he was schemed better...this needs to continue going forward...

[Oviedo]

you said it. One outstanding performance.

lets see timmons do it for 4 or 5 games in a row before showering him with praise and designing the defense around him.

but timmons has always been one of your boys, so I expect nothing less from you and the constant stream of excuses when he doesn't play well. Like the 1st three games this year.

Sounds to me like you have an "agenda" wrt Timmons. You accuse everyone else of having agenda's, are you really Oliver Stone?

Yes, I have always liked Timmons and I have always believed that if Timmons is used like he was yesterday he will be a star. When he is just wasted as a runstuffer that is not playing to his strengths but simply forcing him into the template. It is not what he does best. Letting him run free and use his athleticism is what is best for him. Putting restraints on him is a stupid call by the DC.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

actually, I only accuse you ovi, as have several others.

this is timmons 6th year in the league and I find it amusing that when he plays a great half of football, his supporters run to the internet proclaiming him a star and wanting to design the defense around him.

you cannot convince me that the only difference in timmons was the way he was used yesterday. Sure that may have been a part of it, but if lawrence had played with that intensity and effort all year we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he hasn't. He needs to be much more consistent and start playing like the big money player and 1st round draft pick that he is.

I hope he does, but I won't hold my breath.

[lloydroid]

you guys crack me up.

timmons plays a great half and you want to design the defense around him.

good luck with that.

Yea, I mean, why build a defense around someone who played like a dominate beast? I think it makes more sense to build a D around someone like Mundy instead. <rolls eyes> Timmons was dominant. Troy might be done. Timmons could very well be the center piece of this D moving forward.

[Terrible Towlie]

The whole defense look refreshed. We had more pressure this week than we've had all season.

Timmons looked like the best defender in the NFL in the first half.

And this defense was doing it mostly without Troy or Woodley for most of the game.

Is Philly's OLine that bad? Or does Harrison make that much of a difference?

Harrison and Worldis make a good duo. I also noticed a lot of McClendon this week.


Agreed! I hope this is more to see from our defense the rest of the Season. Timmons was incrdible, McClendon and Worilds contributed and we definately seemed fresher later in the game.

[Oviedo]

actually, I only accuse you ovi, as have several others.

this is timmons 6th year in the league and I find it amusing that when he plays a great half of football, his supporters run to the internet proclaiming him a star and wanting to design the defense around him.

you cannot convince me that the only difference in timmons was the way he was used yesterday. Sure that may have been a part of it, but if lawrence had played with that intensity and effort all year we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he hasn't. He needs to be much more consistent and start playing like the big money player and 1st round draft pick that he is.

I hope he does, but I won't hold my breath.


Help me understand what exactly my sinister agenda is other than not agreeing with you? I'd love to know because I thought to have an agenda you had to have the ability to cause change. I didn't think we could do that by voicing opinions on the internet.

[Slapstick]

you cannot convince me that the only difference in timmons was the way he was used yesterday.

You've made up your mind, so I won't try...

But, that was definitely, by far, the biggest difference...

[Oviedo]

You've made up your mind, so I won't try...

But, that was definitely, by far, the biggest difference...

I think Eddie would term that as an "agenda" on his part.

[fezziwig]

How much time did Timmons set the bench learning until he became a true starter ? How much coin did Timmons get in his two contracts ? Timmons a number one pick, Timmons finally had his second or third good game........puh......leeze ! Until this guy can be a factor practically every game or even every other game I still thnk he's a bust. And if you think he is being used incorectly then, complain about Lebeau, Tomlin or Colbert for not getting the right man for the job.

I can't deny Timmons, had a great first half after millions of dollars, waiting for his break out season each preseason..... Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

[Slapstick]

And if you think he is being used incorectly then, complain about Lebeau, Tomlin or Colbert for not getting the right man for the job.


That makes no sense...

In the NFL, the idea is to draft the best players that fit your scheme...if they don't fit the way you thought they did (and they must think Timmons fits, because they gave him a lot of money) then you adapt the scheme to fit those players...

[hawaiiansteel]

Steelers linebacker Timmons torches Eagles

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=hgXPV lMlelPtXdPDRYYqds$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYvWKe2pHFoMwBD SnCSR0VBWWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

All eyes were on linebacker James Harrison as he made his season debut Sunday at Heinz Field.

Most everyone was anxious to see if his surgically repaired knee would hold up against the Philadelphia Eagles.

However, with the Steelers in a somewhat must-win predicament, it was oft-maligned linebacker Lawrence Timmons who stepped up in leading the Steelers to a come-from-behind 16-14 victory.

Timmons led the Steelers with nine tackles (eight solo). He had two tackles for a loss and two quarterback hits. Not a bad effort considering Timmons had 12 tackles through the first three games.

Timmons unleashed the fiery, caged lion muzzled at times by undersized running backs. He looked like a big cat chasing down prey, often tossing aside Philadelphia’s mammoth offensive linemen while in pursuit of quarterback Michael Vick and former Pitt running back LeSean McCoy.

Timmons consistently harassed Vick before stripping him of the ball late in the second quarter at the Eagles 34.

“I wanted to show a lot of effort out there,” Timmons said. “Our coaches did a good job in pregame, and it carried over into the game. We did a good job of keeping (Vick) bottled up.”

Perhaps it was the return of Harrison and safety Troy Polamalu that inspired Timmons. But he seemed to find another gear when Polamalu limped off the field after aggravating his sore calf.

The pressure mounted when outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley was sidelined in the second quarter with a right hamstring injury.

Timmons altered the Eagles’ game plan as he often disrupted their timing by either flushing Vick from the pocket or sealing the middle of the Steelers’ defense, which was gutted by Oakland’s Darren McFadden in a 34-31 loss two weeks ago.

“Our defense stood up today,” Timmons said. “A good team is always defined by how they do after a loss. The energy we were playing with, running to the ball, that’s what it’s all about.

“In the first half they had me on the back. In the second half, the center or the guard came out on me, but they blitzed me outside and I still got some pressure.

“We just didn’t want Vick to get comfortable because he can hurt you downfield.”

Defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau dialed up myriad blitz schemes. They all somehow involved Timmons, who several times shot gaps to rattle Vick.

“I’ll say, compared to the last game, I was around the ball more,” Timmons said. “Our defensive line did a good job of containment (on Vick).”

It may have been business as usual for Timmons, but defensive end Ziggy Hood was quick to notice that Timmons was determined to influence the game’s outcome.

“It gave us energy to see (Timmons) balling like that,” Hood said. “He did his job. He had a Pro Bowl-caliber game. The man played hard, and as a defense we fed from it.”

Added safety Ryan Mundy: “Somebody is going to always provide that spark of energy. It was Lawrence today.”

Linebacker Larry Foote said the Steelers are likely to turn loose Timmons when the Steelers play in Tennessee Thursday night.

“I know a lot of people put a lot of heat on him to make big splash plays,” Foote said, “but if you come in to watch film, he’s one of the best players on our defense.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2734543-85/timmons-steelers-vick-linebacker-game-eagles-defense-job-tackles-ball#axzz28k0Gkw1R

[NorthCoast]

The whole defense look refreshed. We had more pressure this week than we've had all season.

Timmons looked like the best defender in the NFL in the first half.

And this defense was doing it mostly without Troy or Woodley for most of the game.

Is Philly's OLine that bad? Or does Harrison make that much of a difference?

Harrison and Worldis make a good duo. I also noticed a lot of McClendon this week.

I'll answer your question. Philly's OL is THAT bad. Vick has been getting killed almost every game. I think only AZ's OL is worse. IF Philly had a TE that is worthwhile, don't think for one minute that the Steelers wouldn't have used Timmons for pass pro.
After watching STL dismantle AZ last week I am convinced the Steelers need to invest heavily in LBs. I love Foote's effort, but the guy is ordinary. The Steelers need special talent at LB to make the defense work.

[NorthCoast]

BTW, this was only the second game this season where a LB led in tackles. The other was a loss (Denver).

[fezziwig]

I'll answer your question. Philly's OL is THAT bad. Vick has been getting killed almost every game. I think only AZ's OL is worse. IF Philly had a TE that is worthwhile, don't think for one minute that the Steelers wouldn't have used Timmons for pass pro.
After watching STL dismantle AZ last week I am convinced the Steelers need to invest heavily in LBs. I love Foote's effort, but the guy is ordinary. The Steelers need special talent at LB to make the defense work.


BS ! Timmons is now a football god now that he's had one good half. Serious, I don't want o knock the guy for having a good game and if the OL is that bad Timmons should have put it to him. I'm not ready to say Timmons finally found his game after being a number one pick sitting the bench and being groomed for so long and now being on his second contract. Timmons needs a lot more games like that for me not to believe he's a bust. He is a first round bust and that opinion won't change for me no matter how good he does in the future. First rounders are suppose to be a cut above the other guys, be able to possibly step up sooner than the regular draft picks and so on and Timmons has never been any of that. How many seasons has he been playing / Avergae Joe's have found their game, developed their game quicker than Timmons.

Again, congradulations to him for having a good game and if you think I'm being rough on the guy the proof that, he has been less than good is the media buzz he has created with just the first half of a game after how many seasons now ?

[steelz09]

That makes no sense...

In the NFL, the idea is to draft the best players that fit your scheme...if they don't fit the way you thought they did (and they must think Timmons fits, because they gave him a lot of money) then you adapt the scheme to fit those players...

Timmons had a GREAT game. He really did. With that being said, I need to see consistency at this point in his career. I'm still hearing the word potential and Timmons. Thats the same word the Timmons-lovers used when we drafted him and that is still the word they're using. I'm over it and I'm tired of waiting year in and year out. If he hasn't reached his potential yet, we'll never see it.

FACT #1: Tomlin was in love with Brooks from TB. He thought Timmons was his clone so he drafted him.

FACT #2: We don't play the Tampa-2... not even close to it. Either make the switch or don't draft Timmons.

FACT #3 We drafted him to play OLB in a 3-4

FACT #4: He SUCKED and still SUCKS as a 3-4 OLB.

FACT #5: Since he sucked so bad at OLB, Tomlin and Colbert had to "save face" and move him to ILB. If he didn't work out at ILB, he would've gone down as one of the biggest 1st round busts in Steelers history.

FACT #6: By the time he was finally able to perform as a starter, he was dealt a major contract.

FACT #7: He got PAID and PAID WELL and he didn't deserve that money. He got paid very well on his rookie contract to basically "learn" the entire time. Then, by the time he finally learned... he the signed a MAJOR contract.

[Slapstick]

You have a strange definition for this word, "fact"...

I do not think it means what you think it means...:p

[Oviedo]

Timmons had a GREAT game. He really did. With that being said, I need to see consistency at this point in his career. I'm still hearing the word potential and Timmons. Thats the same word the Timmons-lovers used when we drafted him and that is still the word they're using. I'm over it and I'm tired of waiting year in and year out. If he hasn't reached his potential yet, we'll never see it.

FACT #1: Tomlin was in love with Brooks from TB. He thought Timmons was his clone so he drafted him.

FACT #2: We don't play the Tampa-2... not even close to it. Either make the switch or don't draft Timmons.

FACT #3 We drafted him to play OLB in a 3-4

FACT #4: He SUCKED and still SUCKS as a 3-4 OLB.

FACT #5: Since he sucked so bad at OLB, Tomlin and Colbert had to "save face" and move him to ILB. If he didn't work out at ILB, he would've gone down as one of the biggest 1st round busts in Steelers history.

FACT #6: By the time he was finally able to perform as a starter, he was dealt a major contract.

FACT #7: He got PAID and PAID WELL and he didn't deserve that money. He got paid very well on his rookie contract to basically "learn" the entire time. Then, by the time he finally learned... he the signed a MAJOR contract.

While you may "need" to see something I think the Steelers have made it pretty clear they like what they see given the long-term commitment they have made. The Steelers don't do that as a gesture, never have.

I agree with your so-called Fact #1. Pretty much the rest of the "facts" are opinions of someone who doesn't like Timmons.

[feltdizz]

How good is Troy when DL has him 20 yards off the ball?

How good is Woodley when he drops in coverage?

How good is Harrison when he drops in coverage?

How good is McClendon, Cam, etc when they don't get playing time?

My point... If Timmons can be a beast when turned loose why the hell are some of you against putting him in that scheme more often?

[Oviedo]

How good is Troy when DL has him 20 yards off the ball?

How good is Woodley when he drops in coverage?

How good is Harrison when he drops in coverage?

How good is McClendon, Cam, etc when they don't get playing time?

My point... If Timmons can be a beast when turned loose why the hell are some of you against putting him in that scheme more often?

Because they are blinded by idol worship of anything LeBeau does. LeBeau is never wrong because of past success. The past does not guarantee the future because too many variables have changed on our defense but the guy in charge wants it to be the same. Not uncommon for a 75 year old. Change is not easy easy for people as they get older especially when you are so emotionally and professionally invested in something.

[phillyesq]

How good is Troy when DL has him 20 yards off the ball?

How good is Woodley when he drops in coverage?

How good is Harrison when he drops in coverage?

How good is McClendon, Cam, etc when they don't get playing time?

My point... If Timmons can be a beast when turned loose why the hell are some of you against putting him in that scheme more often?

Part of the hype with Timmons is that he is supposed to be athletic and great in coverage. If he's supposed to be a great coverage linebacker, shouldn't he be used in that role at times?

He had a great game on Sunday. I'd love for him to prove me wrong and play like that for the rest of the season. For a player in his 6th year with a big contract, I don't want potential or flashes. I expect consistently dominant play.

[Oviedo]

I don't want potential or flashes. I expect consistently dominant play.

Can you define "consistently dominant play?" Is it what we see from Woodley, is he meeting the standard? Is it what we have seen from Harrison the past two seasons, is he meeting your standard? What about Troy, is he "consistently dominant?"

I'm just trying to understand the metrics that Timmons will be evaluated against to determine his "consistent dominance." Sacks? Interceptions? Tackles? All the above? More than anyone else is a single game or over the course of a season?

Let's face it, for many Timmons will NEVER be good enough. If that is how you feel, just say it. There is no penalty or no one will ban you from the board. But let's be honest that many want someone or anyone other than Timmons because they probably never liked the pick from Day 1 and have consistently stated so over the last six years. So they set up arbitrary, unmeasureable standards to evaluate him.

I'll be upfront without hesitation. I loved the pick then and still do and when he is used like he was the last game and in the Jets game I think Timmons is the type of player we can build a defense around. He was definitely more effective than Troy, Woodley and Harrison. He can stay on the field unlike those other three. He was on the field last year too, unlike those others three.

The only thing that matters is that the organization likes what they see and have committed to Timmons for the long term. Obviously he meets their standard.

[Slapstick]

Part of the hype with Timmons is that he is supposed to be athletic and great in coverage. If he's supposed to be a great coverage linebacker, shouldn't he be used in that role at times?

Absolutely...the key part of the phrase is "at times"...not all the time...

What Timmons showed on Sunday is this: He can make plays when you put him in position to do so...

While he made the splash play in the first half, he was making tackles for only 2 yard gains and pressuring Vick into incompletions in the 2nd half as well...

[feltdizz]

What Ovi said...

[Oviedo]

Absolutely...the key part of the phrase is "at times"...not all the time...

What Timmons showed on Sunday is this: He can make plays when you put him in position to do so...

While he made the splash play in the first half, he was making tackles for only 2 yard gains and pressuring Vick into incompletions in the 2nd half as well...

And who is responsible for putting him in position to make those plays, yet doesn't on a consistent basis? I think we all know the answer.

[Slapstick]

And who is responsible for putting him in position to make those plays, yet doesn't on a consistent basis? I think we all know the answer.

And now, we will see if the lesson was learned...

[steelz09]

While you may "need" to see something I think the Steelers have made it pretty clear they like what they see given the long-term commitment they have made. The Steelers don't do that as a gesture, never have.

I agree with your so-called Fact #1. Pretty much the rest of the "facts" are opinions of someone who doesn't like Timmons.


Timmons had a GREAT game. He really did. With that being said, I need to see consistency at this point in his career. I'm still hearing the word potential and Timmons. Thats the same word the Timmons-lovers used when we drafted him and that is still the word they're using. I'm over it and I'm tired of waiting year in and year out. If he hasn't reached his potential yet, we'll never see it.

FACT #1: Tomlin was in love with Brooks from TB. He thought Timmons was his clone so he drafted him.

FACT #2: We don't play the Tampa-2... not even close to it. Either make the switch or don't draft Timmons.

FACT #3 We drafted him to play OLB in a 3-4

FACT #4: He SUCKED and still SUCKS as a 3-4 OLB.

FACT #5: Since he sucked so bad at OLB, Tomlin and Colbert had to "save face" and move him to ILB. If he didn't work out at ILB, he would've gone down as one of the biggest 1st round busts in Steelers history.

FACT #6: By the time he was finally able to perform as a starter, he was dealt a major contract.

FACT #7: He got PAID and PAID WELL and he didn't deserve that money. He got paid very well on his rookie contract to basically "learn" the entire time. Then, by the time he finally learned... he the signed a MAJOR contract.

Really? #1 is only a fact?

So we run a Tampa-2 base defense?

So we didn't draft him to play OLB even though that was clearly stated over and over again?

He's good as an OLB? Haha - see last year.

Tomlin/Colbert didn't save face by moving him to ILB? lol. How do you draft a player 15th overall, say publicly over and over again that he will play OLB and then back peddle those statements after moving him to ILB. Call it what you want but that is saving face. Thank god it worked.

Fact #6 & #7. Those are not opinions either. Look it up.

[Slapstick]

Tomlin/Colbert didn't save face by moving him to ILB? lol. How do you draft a player 15th overall, say publicly over and over again that he will play OLB and then back peddle those statements after moving him to ILB. Call it what you want but that is saving face. Thank god it worked.


Tomlin said on the day Timmons was drafted that he had "Mack capabilities" and would be looked at there as well...

[RuthlessBurgher]

one good thing i saw.

first time i've seen him get blocked on the blitz pick up by the RB and he still got to the QB

He not only beat that RB, he TRUCKED that RB (like Adrian Peterson TRUCKING William Gay once upon a time).

[Eddie Spaghetti]

The praise continues!!!

How do we know that 92s return isn't partly responsible for Timmons performance?

3 tackles against Oakland and beaten badly by a no name TE for a critical 1st
Down. Let's hold off on sending Timmons to canton for at least a couple more games.

[Slapstick]

How do we know that 92s return isn't partly responsible for Timmons performance?


#92 is definitely an inspirational figure...

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

The praise continues!!!

How do we know that 92s return isn't partly responsible for Timmons performance?

3 tackles against Oakland and beaten badly by a no name TE for a critical 1st
Down. Let's hold off on sending Timmons to canton for at least a couple more games.

I think that there is no doubt that JH's return had a big impact on the D as a whole, and Timmons in particular.

[Shawn]

I will agree with Dubs on this one. I have always seen the talent in Timmons. The problem is he has been a man without a true position. His strength? Gettin after it. It's not run support...not pass coverage (though he does both above average)...it's being unleashed to wreck things. He is the best at it since Troy. Why do we not know this? Because he is rarely used as such. When he is...you see what happens. I agree...build a D around Timmons ability to create havoc....let him free lance.

[phillyesq]

Can you define "consistently dominant play?" Is it what we see from Woodley, is he meeting the standard? Is it what we have seen from Harrison the past two seasons, is he meeting your standard? What about Troy, is he "consistently dominant?"

I'm just trying to understand the metrics that Timmons will be evaluated against to determine his "consistent dominance." Sacks? Interceptions? Tackles? All the above? More than anyone else is a single game or over the course of a season?

Let's face it, for many Timmons will NEVER be good enough. If that is how you feel, just say it. There is no penalty or no one will ban you from the board. But let's be honest that many want someone or anyone other than Timmons because they probably never liked the pick from Day 1 and have consistently stated so over the last six years. So they set up arbitrary, unmeasureable standards to evaluate him.

I'll be upfront without hesitation. I loved the pick then and still do and when he is used like he was the last game and in the Jets game I think Timmons is the type of player we can build a defense around. He was definitely more effective than Troy, Woodley and Harrison. He can stay on the field unlike those other three. He was on the field last year too, unlike those others three.

The only thing that matters is that the organization likes what they see and have committed to Timmons for the long term. Obviously he meets their standard.

For starters, how about noticing that he is on the field? I'd like to see Timmons make an impact of some type in more than 25% of games. In his first three games, Timmons had 11 solos, 1 assist, and 1 pass defensed. Is that the performance of a $10 million per year inside linebacker? Especially considering him getting beat in coverage by yet another no-name TE? Hardly.

With your love for the 4-3, you should know that pass-rushers are hit or miss. All of them - Jared Allen, Peppers, Pierre Paul, will have games where the do not appear on the stat sheet at all or only have a tackle or two. Woodley is a bit inconsistent, and I'd like to see him be more consistent, but I realize that is the nature of being a guy who is paid to rush the passer.

As for James and Troy, when they are on the field, they absolutely impact the game. Health and ability are two different things. I think Harrison's presence probably freed up Timmons a bit.

I'd love for Timmons to prove me wrong. In 2010, I thought that he had. Last year, there were the excuses that he was out of position. This year, I'm not sure what the excuse was for the first three games.

He played great against the Eagles, no question. I'd like to see him continue to play at that level.

Finally, as to "consistently dominant" play - it's like pornography. You know it when you see it. :D

[Oviedo]

For starters, how about noticing that he is on the field? I'd like to see Timmons make an impact of some type in more than 25% of games. In his first three games, Timmons had 11 solos, 1 assist, and 1 pass defensed. Is that the performance of a $10 million per year inside linebacker? Especially considering him getting beat in coverage by yet another no-name TE? Hardly.

With your love for the 4-3, you should know that pass-rushers are hit or miss. All of them - Jared Allen, Peppers, Pierre Paul, will have games where the do not appear on the stat sheet at all or only have a tackle or two. Woodley is a bit inconsistent, and I'd like to see him be more consistent, but I realize that is the nature of being a guy who is paid to rush the passer.

As for James and Troy, when they are on the field, they absolutely impact the game. Health and ability are two different things. I think Harrison's presence probably freed up Timmons a bit.

I'd love for Timmons to prove me wrong. In 2010, I thought that he had. Last year, there were the excuses that he was out of position. This year, I'm not sure what the excuse was for the first three games.

He played great against the Eagles, no question. I'd like to see him continue to play at that level.

Finally, as to "consistently dominant" play - it's like pornography. You know it when you see it. :D

The problem with "You know it when you see it" is if you don't really want to see it you never will. One man's porn is another man's art. So it is really you either like Timmons or you don't and no matter what he really does on the field will change that at this point. Something will always be determined to be "not enough," just like porn;)

[RuthlessBurgher]

Finally, as to "consistently dominant" play - it's like pornography. You know it when you see it. :D

I have no idea where he would have gotten ahold of German pornography. But you and I are mature adults; we've both seen our share of pornographic materials. Oh, you never have? Of course you haven't, how stupid of me. Neither have I. I was just speaking in generalities. Right.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5l966fVVC1qki66fo9_1280.png

[phillyesq]

I have no idea where he would have gotten ahold of German pornography. But you and I are mature adults; we've both seen our share of pornographic materials. Oh, you never have? Of course you haven't, how stupid of me. Neither have I. I was just speaking in generalities. Right.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5l966fVVC1qki66fo9_1280.png

Excellent reference, as always.

[phillyesq]

The problem with "You know it when you see it" is if you don't really want to see it you never will. One man's porn is another man's art. So it is really you either like Timmons or you don't and no matter what he really does on the field will change that at this point. Something will always be determined to be "not enough," just like porn;)

Timmons made little impact in the first few games. He didn't make or alter plays. When it is even questionable that Larry Foote is outplaying you (and I think Foote did outplay Timmons in the first few games) you are not dominant.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

In his first three games, Timmons had 11 solos, 1 assist, and 1 pass defensed. Is that the performance of a $10 million per year inside linebacker?

somehow this basic question keeps getting dodged by the timmons apologists. It seems like a fairly simple question to me. Or they fall back on the same contrived and tired response: Its lebeaus fault!!! Never is it timmons effort, or intensity, or just overall average to poor play.

consistency, that's all the timmons critics want. Give me that and I will embrace him. Until then, I won't.

[fezziwig]

somehow this basic question keeps getting dodged by the timmons apologists. It seems like a fairly simple question to me. Or they fall back on the same contrived and tired response: Its lebeaus fault!!! Never is it timmons effort, or intensity, or just overall average to poor play.

consistency, that's all the timmons critics want. Give me that and I will embrace him. Until then, I won't.



So nicely said. I want to be able to back all our guys as a fan but I don't gush over players that don't show me anything in the way of performance. You have guys from his team saying if you watch the game films Timmons does this and that but to me, that sounds like janitors work. Heck, Rick Woods used to do more than that and I thought the guys was dreadful.

[NorthCoast]

Timmons best year by far was 2010 (avg 8.3 tackles/gm). The rest of his career shows that he is good for about 5 1/2 tackles per game. Not elite by any definition of the word and would not even crack the top 50 tacklers with those numbers.

[Slapstick]

somehow this basic question keeps getting dodged by the timmons apologists. It seems like a fairly simple question to me. Or they fall back on the same contrived and tired response: Its lebeaus fault!!! Never is it timmons effort, or intensity, or just overall average to poor play.

consistency, that's all the timmons critics want. Give me that and I will embrace him. Until then, I won't.

Apologists? That's a silly word to use because it implies that there is something to apologize for...there isn't...

All Timmons does is what he is asked to do...

Ask him to go after the QB and be disruptive, like Sunday vs the Eagles, and he does...

Ask him to be passive and sit back in coverage, like most of the first three games this year, and he does...

Ask him to play all four LB positions in the Steelers' defense, like last year, and he does...

Like every human being on the planet (and the Planet!), there are some things he does better than others...IMO, what Timmons does best is what he did, successfully, on Sunday...

So, if you are committed to a big contract, why not ask him to do that a lot more often?

[phillyesq]

Ask him to be passive and sit back in coverage, like most of the first three games this year, and he does...


I'm sure nobody asks him to sit back in coverage and get beat by mediocre tight ends. He rarely makes plays in coverage, yet that was billed as one of his strengths.

[Shawn]

Apologists? That's a silly word to use because it implies that there is something to apologize for...there isn't...

All Timmons does is what he is asked to do...

Ask him to go after the QB and be disruptive, like Sunday vs the Eagles, and he does...

Ask him to be passive and sit back in coverage, like most of the first three games this year, and he does...

Ask him to play all four LB positions in the Steelers' defense, like last year, and he does...

Like every human being on the planet (and the Planet!), there are some things he does better than others...IMO, what Timmons does best is what he did, successfully, on Sunday...

So, if you are committed to a big contract, why not ask him to do that a lot more often?

Once again well said.

[phillyesq]

Once again well said.

11 solos, 1 assist, and 1 pass defensed in the first three games. You were happy with that?

[Slapstick]

I'm sure nobody asks him to sit back in coverage and get beat by mediocre tight ends. He rarely makes plays in coverage, yet that was billed as one of his strengths.

Perhaps...but, you know what he does well? You saw it on Sunday...

[steelz09]

Ziggy does what he's asked to do... should he get a huge contract to?

He might be "doing what he's told" but he's not doing what he's told at an elite level like his contract would indicate.

[steelz09]

I'm sure nobody asks him to sit back in coverage and get beat by mediocre tight ends. He rarely makes plays in coverage, yet that was billed as one of his strengths.

6th season... and still waiting on all of these "splash plays" we've been hearing about since he was drafted.

[phillyesq]

Perhaps...but, you know what he does well? You saw it on Sunday...

Yeah, I've acknowledged that he had a great game on Sunday. But where was he in run defense for the first three weeks of the season? Was he told not to make plays?

[Slapstick]

Yeah, I've acknowledged that he had a great game on Sunday. But where was he in run defense for the first three weeks of the season? Was he told not to make plays?

And, as I've acknowledged, there are some things that Timmons, just like any player, does better than others...

If you want Timmons to perform at an elite level, put him in a position to do what he does best...he's not going to blow up the running game by playing 15-20 yards off the ball...put him closer to the LoS like they did with Farrior...Farrior was not great in coverage for the most part, but was awesome within 10 yards of the LoS...that's where he spent most of his playing time...

[steelz09]

And, as I've acknowledged, there are some things that Timmons, just like any player, does better than others...

If you want Timmons to perform at an elite level, put him in a position to do what he does best...he's not going to blow up the running game by playing 15-20 yards off the ball...put him closer to the LoS like they did with Farrior...Farrior was not great in coverage for the most part, but was awesome within 10 yards of the LoS...that's where he spent most of his playing time...

Putting Timmons closer to the line of scrimmage would be one of the worst things you could possibly do.

[Slapstick]

Putting Timmons closer to the line of scrimmage would be one of the worst things you could possibly do.

Yeah, it worked out horribly when they played the Eagles...