PDA

View Full Version : Mike Wallace = No Heart



AngryAsian
10-07-2012, 04:33 PM
How can anyone even think this guy is worth Larry Fitzgerald cash. Left many catchable balls on the field. Gave up on many plays. Out if a roster full of steel men, he's the tinman.... no heart.

feltdizz
10-07-2012, 04:38 PM
Dude looked like he was threatened by the philly mob if he caught the ball.

Steelhere10
10-07-2012, 04:38 PM
I rather have Wallace with no heart who is still producing, than Troy or James with heart who aint producing because they can't stay on the field long enough to produce.

SidSmythe
10-07-2012, 04:41 PM
I rather have Wallace with no heart who is still producing, than Troy or James with heart who aint producing because they can't stay on the field long enough to produce.

Nice try but those aren't our options.
Wallace is a 1 trick pony and Antonio Brown is a more complete WR.
At this point I'm more concerned with keeping Mendenhall than I am Wallace.

BURGH86STEEL
10-07-2012, 04:42 PM
Why can't people just enjoy the win?

Lebsteel
10-07-2012, 04:49 PM
Why can't people just enjoy the win?

Because we must get better...we really didn't play a good game at all. If we won by 40, I'd be OK...not realistic, of course, but I'd be OK.

SidSmythe
10-07-2012, 04:53 PM
Because we must get better...we really didn't play a good game at all. If we won by 40, I'd be OK...not realistic, of course, but I'd be OK.

Exactly...I wasn't ready for a game like that today.
Plus he didn't do anything during clutch time except maybe keep a safety deep.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-07-2012, 04:58 PM
this one trick pony BS needs to stop. Quit parroting and watch the damn games.

brown was no star today either.

some just want wallace to fail because it fits their agenda.

Steelhere10
10-07-2012, 05:09 PM
this one trick pony BS needs to stop. Quit parroting and watch the damn games.

brown was no star today either.

some just want wallace to fail because it fits their agenda.Brown had a couple of drops also. People want Wallace to fail because the Rooneys won't pony up the cash, only to washed up defense.

hawaiiansteel
10-07-2012, 05:10 PM
Mike Wallace's stats today:

2 receptions for 17 yards and 0 TDs...

sure, that kind of production is worth $11.5 million/year...:roll:

BURGH86STEEL
10-07-2012, 05:11 PM
Exactly...I wasn't ready for a game like that today.
Plus he didn't do anything during clutch time except maybe keep a safety deep.
I suppose some folks will never be satisfied. Not one team in the league plays well every week. Parity is what the NFL has become. Parity makes it difficult for teams to improve up to fan's expectations. If you were not ready for a game like today then you must not pay attention to the league. The Eagles are a good team.

Whether people want to accept it or not, Wallace is a member of this team and contributes to wins. Ultimately, talent and the ability to play the game at a high level is what gets players paid. Wallace has proven that he is talented and can play the game at a high level. Heart or not heart, Wallace will receive a big money contract from a team because he is a talented player.

Steelhere10
10-07-2012, 05:13 PM
Don't take one game, do the season stats. Of him Brown, Troy, James and every one on the team not named Ben. Wallace is clearly the second most productive on the team. POINT BLANK !

AngryAsian
10-07-2012, 05:14 PM
I rarely post... Have no agenda against Wallace, even have a Wallace jersey. I just have issue with someone who wasn't in camp crying about what he wasn't getting and now he has the opportunity to do his job and can't perform the simplest of catches. That throw to him in the endzone sandwiched between two defenders, though uncatchable, be didn't even try to jump up for it. No effort whatsoever.

I LOVED the win, but expecting a higher ceiling from certain skilled players that have the ability to help this team win is something I don't mind stating. We have to go through more complete teams like Houston, Atlanta, San Fran.... for us to be able to enjoy another Lombardi. That means we need a complete effort from all our starters. Wallace played uninspired ball. Just an opinion.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-07-2012, 05:16 PM
this team has a lot of problems.

wallace ain't one of them.

some of you people are nuts.

Steelhere10
10-07-2012, 05:20 PM
It's funny, the second most productive player on the team with the defense included , get all the criticism... too funny

hawaiiansteel
10-07-2012, 05:24 PM
It's funny, the second most productive player on the team with the defense included , get all the criticism... too funny

we're only talking about Mike Wallace's production in this game, and 2 receptions for 17 yards isn't that good.

what's so funny about that and why am I nuts for thinking that Wallace didn't have a good game today?

Lebsteel
10-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Mike Wallace's stats today:

2 receptions for 17 yards and 0 TDs...

sure, that kind of production is worth $11.5 million/year...:roll:

Wallace seems to be like a young Randy Moss...a lot of talent, but his effort level is suspect. However, Wallace should have got at least two holding icalls against his defender, one for a TD. Wallace wasn't the only WR that disappointed, It looked like Brown could have made that TD grab on a beautiful throw by Ben. We were very fortunate to win this one. I hoping for a better executed game against the Titans.

DukieBoy
10-07-2012, 05:42 PM
Mike occupied significant attention of the Eagles coverage. They always have to be aware of him and his deep potential. It helps open the field.

I imagine he would like some deep opportunities, more than he is getting. It's where he makes his name and his money.

Slapstick
10-07-2012, 05:42 PM
If Ben is the most productive player on offense, Heath Miller is 2nd, not Wallace...

NJ-STEELER
10-07-2012, 05:45 PM
and considering what he's being paid this year and his rookie contract year. he is a steal


It's funny, the second most productive player on the team with the defense included , get all the criticism... too funny

Steelgal
10-07-2012, 05:54 PM
Pappy is one of the most rational, level-headed posters here. I agree with what he's said, Wallace had some miscues today. Yes, so did other wide-outs, but those wide-outs are NOT asking for Fitzgerald type of money or holding out of camp to get the big payday. None of the wide-outs had a great game. Cotchery tripped over his own 2 feet, that otherwise would have led to a TD. Brown and Wallace both had key drops.

hawaiiansteel
10-07-2012, 06:15 PM
Pappy is one of the most rational, level-headed posters here.

that's a scary thought...:D

AngryAsian
10-07-2012, 06:21 PM
Pappy is one of the most rational, level-headed posters here. I agree with what he's said, Wallace had some miscues today. Yes, so did other wide-outs, but those wide-outs are NOT asking for Fitzgerald type of money or holding out of camp to get the big payday. None of the wide-outs had a great game. Cotchery tripped over his own 2 feet, that otherwise would have led to a TD. Brown and Wallace both had key drops.

I made no criticism of his previous play thus far in this early part of the season. And you and Pappy are correct in that if this particularly vital cog in our offensive machine is holding out and missing camp because he wants to get a huge pay day, then he needs to produce. I'm sure being marked by every defense you face must be tough... all the more reason to make the most out of your open looks and give maximum effort...something not yielded in this game.

DukieBoy
10-07-2012, 06:22 PM
that's a scary thought...:D

But true. Hope the pool's not too shallow.

Discipline of Steel
10-07-2012, 07:05 PM
I know its his own doing, but Wallace may still be coming up to speed after missing the preseason. I am willing to give him a pass if he can ratchet up to full speed by mid-season. Of course, he has no alternative since this is effectively a contract year. Lets hope he can turn it on from here on out...

flippy
10-07-2012, 07:18 PM
It was raining and the wet ball may have had something to do with it.

Shoe
10-07-2012, 07:57 PM
I think the jist of what OP was saying is that, in the context of "Larry Fitz money", he is completely not in that class. I would disagree in the notion that he doesn't try hard. I think his effort is fine. His value (which is being overrated by him and his agent) is that he is a LEGIT deep threat WR, of which there aren't that many. But he brings very little to it besides that. To earn Larry Fitz money, you have to be able to hang your hat on that guy: Wallace is certainly not a drive-sustaining impact player like that.

Think AJ Green. AJ Green will someday earn Larry Fitz money. There is not one Steeler fan on this planet who would take Mike Wallace over AJ Green. Not even Mike Wallace.

pittpete
10-07-2012, 08:07 PM
It was raining and the wet ball may have had something to do with it.

No offense to you bro, but the lack of even an attempt to jump by Wallace on the ball in the Endzone left a bad taste in my mouth.
And it wasnt due to the rain.
Wallace is a good receiver and a very good receiver when he wants to be.
Wallace CAN'T take over a game like other big name guys can.
I'm happy about the win against a very good Eagles defense

Dee Dub
10-07-2012, 08:15 PM
this one trick pony BS needs to stop. Quit parroting and watch the damn games.

brown was no star today either.

some just want wallace to fail because it fits their agenda.

Let's see, Mike Wallace was covered by two defenders (he had a safety over the top all day long), and Antonio Brown was covered by one defender. But when people hate they just never see clearly.

Now having said that, I can be honest and say I did see some frustration from Wallace today that carried over into a lack luster effort. And I am not happy about that.

Oviedo
10-07-2012, 08:48 PM
I think it is Wallace's agenda that is the source of the problem and heartache not any posters.

As for today Wallace made lots of mistakes, but he wasn't alone. It would be great to keep him but like I said many times the only person who can cause Mike Wallace to leave is Mike Wallace. The choices are all his.

birtikidis
10-07-2012, 08:51 PM
Can't compare Wallace and brown. But I love the effort from brown. If wallace had that level of effort he'd be unstoppable

Oviedo
10-07-2012, 08:55 PM
Can't compare Wallace and brown. But I love the effort from brown. If wallace had that level of effort he'd be unstoppable

He'd rather get the money first than put out the effort.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-07-2012, 08:58 PM
He'd rather get the money first than put out the effort.

yeah, thats totally what wallace has done.

never let the facts get in the way of your agenda.

Dee Dub
10-07-2012, 09:01 PM
Two things need to be said here. First I dont ever remember anyone on this forum ever saying Mike Wallace deserves Larry Fitzgerald money. The only one who I remember saying that is Mike Wallace. Saying the Steelers need to lock up Wallace to a long term contract worthy of being paid what he is worth isn't anything close to saying he deserves Larry Fitzgerald money.

Secondly, did anyone not see the game replays where Wallace was being held several times? It was pretty obvious and it was several times.

Sugar
10-07-2012, 09:04 PM
Two things need to be said here. First I dont ever remember anyone on this forum ever saying Mike Wallace deserves Larry Fitzgerald money. The only one who I remember saying that is Mike Wallace. Saying the Steelers need to lock up Wallace to a long term contract worthy of being paid what he is worth isn't anything close to saying he deserves Larry Fitzgerald money.

Secondly, did anyone not see the game replays where Wallace was being held several times? It was pretty obvious and it was several times.

So, when exactly did Mike Wallace say that?

Eddie Spaghetti
10-07-2012, 09:05 PM
wallace never said anything about wanting fitz money.

Steelhere10
10-07-2012, 09:07 PM
He nor his agent said that, the media did. And people here trust the media. Wallace also tweeted after that not to believe everything that you hear...

Dee Dub
10-07-2012, 09:20 PM
So, when exactly did Mike Wallace say that?
Well I thought it was implied he did since it was released by his agent..or at the time that was what was being reported. regardless, my point is that no Steeler fan that I know of said that.

chiken
10-07-2012, 09:35 PM
I love Wallace, and I want him on this team - but I no longer believe that he is more valuable to this team than Brown.. So the idea of him making more than Brown seems a bit off.. Imho
I hated his effort today especially considering how tight "& important" the game was.. Heck since he has been getting "Double teamed" his effort seems to have dropped way off.. at least that's how it appears.. I hope today was just a bad one, I hope he picks it up, I am sure he will especially after the watch the tape but today was lousy.. Cant defend a guy who doesn't look like he is giving the effort.

Chadman
10-07-2012, 10:19 PM
When you have a player that makes your team significantly better than when you don't have him- what's his value?

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-07-2012, 10:44 PM
we're only talking about Mike Wallace's production in this game, and 2 receptions for 17 yards isn't that good.

what's so funny about that and why am I nuts for thinking that Wallace didn't have a good game today?

The title of this thread states that he has no heart. That is not a comment on a bad game, that is a comment on him as an overall player and person.

chiken
10-07-2012, 11:23 PM
I understand what you are saying Sir but I have never truly agreed with the statement that he makes the team that much better.. Do we need a speed guy ala Nate Washington, sure.. taking the top off is wonderful but our offense has never been explosive.. It always been "almost there" or a "few plays short" or the classic "a year away.." We have never been confused with the Saints or the Giants or the Packers.. We have never been high powered - we Rarely scored 30 but if we did one week then the next week we would barely hit 15.

Yes he has caught more touchdowns but As a Team we were not in the upper echelon - Its kind of like being the best looking ugly chick at a dance for the blind.. Our Passing Tds per year as a team is average - (bottom part of average) the Year He had 10 (2010) we only had 17 as a team.. The offense was not very good - 14th in the league. We have never Needed Wallace to Win super bowls, nor does Ben need him to be elite.

hawaiiansteel
10-07-2012, 11:26 PM
The title of this thread states that he has no heart. That is not a comment on a bad game, that is a comment on him as an overall player and person.

sorry, I was only speaking for myself and not the OP.

I should have said "I am" instead of "we're"...

AngryAsian
10-07-2012, 11:55 PM
Help..., Willie at it again... Win or lose... Take your pick out of the numerous threads that are started here that need further clarification by actually opening up the thread. I apologize for the lack of clarity in the original post. As I said, have a Wallace jersey, a fan of his his skills and the value he brings to the team, but his effort TODAY was lacklustered and steaming with frustration from the many no call holds. But a top five receiver can ill afford a poor showing when his team needs him the most.... I can recall two plays where he just plain gave up and seem to show no effort. Top shelf receivers overcome and take over a game.

BradshawsHairdresser
10-08-2012, 12:07 AM
If he really did turn down a $50 million contract from the Steelers, he may be one of the dumbest players in the NFL, because if he keeps giving up on plays, he may not get an offer anywhere close to that ever again.

stopplayn
10-08-2012, 12:18 AM
I suppose some folks will never be satisfied. Not one team in the league plays well every week. Parity is what the NFL has become. Parity makes it difficult for teams to improve up to fan's expectations. If you were not ready for a game like today then you must not pay attention to the league. The Eagles are a good team.

Whether people want to accept it or not, Wallace is a member of this team and contributes to wins. Ultimately, talent and the ability to play the game at a high level is what gets players paid. Wallace has proven that he is talented and can play the game at a high level. Heart or not heart, Wallace will receive a big money contract from a team because he is a talented player.

Wallace is tired of being underthrown, overthrown etc. Ben is not the most accurate passer. However, Wallace has got to put forth more effoft. I would bench him a series to let him know that I mean business. The PERFECT PASS that Ben threw him on 3rd and short and he just put out one arm and tried to catch it, was pathetic. If he used two hands thats a catch. Ben seldom leads them on passes but when he does this idiot gives half an effort. The 2nd one would have been a great catch (4th qtr) but he STILL should have caught it. If you want the big bucks then make the big catches. If anyone complains about the wild pass into double coverage in the endzone, well Plaxico on stilts couldnt have caught that.

hawaiiansteel
10-08-2012, 12:22 AM
Wallace is tired of being underthrown, overthrown etc. Ben is not the most accurate passer.

http://katdish.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/beating-a-dead-horse-horse-demotivational-poster-1267844749.jpg

stopplayn
10-08-2012, 12:23 AM
Truth hurt much?

hawaiiansteel
10-08-2012, 12:26 AM
Truth hurt much?

the truth is that Ben is the best QB the Steelers have had since Terry Bradshaw, too bad you can't see that.

fordfixer
10-08-2012, 12:26 AM
Truth hurt much?
Spreading your hate for Ben to another thread I will make this your last warning

NJ-STEELER
10-08-2012, 12:36 AM
Spreading your hate for Ben to another thread I will make this your last warning


check the 'ben pilots gw drive' thread

stopplayn
10-08-2012, 04:44 AM
the truth is that Ben is the best QB the Steelers have had since Terry Bradshaw, too bad you can't see that.

I agree with that and have stated it MANY times.

stopplayn
10-08-2012, 04:46 AM
Spreading your hate for Ben to another thread I will make this your last warning

I dont hate Ben. I gave Ben props in that post. I let WALLACE have it in my post.

Scarletfire
10-08-2012, 06:30 AM
I didn't read this whole thread so I am not sure how this became a Ben bashing thread. Anyway, I can handle drops. What I can't handle is a player giving up and not going out and giving 110% like we are used to seeing from former players like Hines Ward. Mike Wallace gave up yesterday. That is unacceptable. Sure Brown makes mistakes, but he also comes through many times when we need him. I have never seen him give up. I just wish he'd keep his mouth shut.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-09-2012, 12:13 AM
I agree with AA - Wallace doesn't have the heart of a Man of Steel. If we can get good value for him to help us in areas of greater need, I wouldn't cry to see him go.

steelz09
10-09-2012, 12:20 AM
Brown had a couple of drops also. People want Wallace to fail because the Rooneys won't pony up the cash, only to washed up defense.

Poney up the cash? What in the world are you talking about? It's been reported that Rooney's offered him a 50 million dollar contract.

He's not even worth that.

Chadman
10-09-2012, 12:24 AM
So what is his value? If he allows Ben, Antonio, Sanders, Heath, Mendy etc to perform better because her stretches the field, if he makes the Offense better just by being there- what is his value?

If he wasn't there- is the Offense as good?

What is the success of the Offense worth?

steelz09
10-09-2012, 12:27 AM
I watch a guy like Brandon Marshall play and I think to myself.... Wallace is NOT a better WR than him.

Throw stats (look at the team and QB marshall has had) and his medical condition aside. Marshall is a beast. He's a deep threat, he can go across the middle, he can block, he's physical, etc.

I pick Marshall out because he's in that next tier of WRs along with Wallace.

So how much does Marshall make? He's making 9.5 mil this year. The Steelers offered Wallace an avg of 10mil/year and he turned it down.

IMO, our offense would be better with Marshall than it would be with Wallace. I think he's a better overall WR. I don't have a problem paying Wallace. I have a problem paying Wallace more than what he's worth. I don't see him being worth more than a guy like Brandon Marshall.

stopplayn
10-09-2012, 12:53 AM
Wallace is our best receiver and DC spend more time trying to stop him then any other receiver on our team. Those are the facts.

stopplayn
10-09-2012, 12:55 AM
Who cares if YOU GUYS have a problem with paying Wallace. Like you cut checks. Wallace WILL get his big contract because he has value. If he doesnt get it from us, he will get it elsewhere. Careful what you ask for.

steelz09
10-09-2012, 01:03 AM
Who cares if YOU GUYS have a problem with paying Wallace. Like you cut checks. Wallace WILL get his big contract because he has value. If he doesnt get it from us, he will get it elsewhere. Careful what you ask for.

Re-read what you just typed.

You criticize posts because "we" don't cut checks. In the next sentence, you write "if he doesn't get it from **US**, he will get it elsewhere."

LOL

That's fine... let the other teams overpay for him. Those teams will continue to suck like they always do and Wallace will never sniff a SB ever again.

stopplayn
10-09-2012, 01:30 AM
Thats most of the Steelers. Troy Polamalu is the only Steeler that could go somewhere else and still be as good as he was in the burgh. Wallace will get his money and if he doesnt. So what. I could care less. We always find someone else. Like when everyone was hating Tone (Santonio) and in love with Wallace. We always reload, its the Steeler way.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-09-2012, 08:44 AM
Who cares if YOU GUYS have a problem with paying Wallace. Like you cut checks. Wallace WILL get his big contract because he has value. If he doesnt get it from us, he will get it elsewhere. Careful what you ask for.

I do ... that's what a message board is for IMO - to exchange opinions!

Shawn
10-09-2012, 08:46 AM
Good post GG. I agree Wallace is not playing like a guy who is worth 100 million.

Oviedo
10-09-2012, 10:55 AM
Good post GG. I agree Wallace is not playing like a guy who is worth 100 million.

I think we will see Antonio Brown get more chances on deep routes and I think we will see that he can do that very effectively. Wallace wasn't even worth another teams #1 draft pick, and several teams had more than one, in the past draft let alone someone paying him $100M. He won't get significantly more on the open market than what the Steelers already offered him but he has made this an ego thing now. If he leaves it will be because he can't admit that the Steelers were right with what they offered him and he turned down.

I also think there is the issue of how everyone loves and embraces Antonio Brown that really grates on him and he really doesn't want to deal with that comparison every game.

stopplayn
10-09-2012, 11:32 AM
Theres no comparrison. EVERY OC in the league would rather deal with AB vs Wallace. EVERY

stopplayn
10-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Brown NEEDS Wallace to be effective (See Hines and how he needed Tone). Wallace doesnt need anyone except the qb. Thats the difference

Slapstick
10-09-2012, 11:40 AM
Brown NEEDS Wallace to be effective (See Hines and how he needed Tone). Wallace doesnt need anyone except the qb. Thats the difference

Based upon what? Upon how Brown was making catches while covered by Nnamdi?

Oviedo
10-09-2012, 12:02 PM
Based upon what? Upon how Brown was making catches while covered by Nnamdi?

Brown was turning Nmandi around in circles all day and he beat him deep. If Wallace is so great why did the Eagles put their best and one of the best CBs in the league on Brown? My opinion, the league knows that Brown is the best WR we have.

RuthlessBurgher
10-09-2012, 12:32 PM
Mike Wallace's stats today:

2 receptions for 17 yards and 0 TDs...

sure, that kind of production is worth $11.5 million/year...:roll:

Some perspective...

Last night, Andre Johnson had one catch for 15 yards against the Revis-less Jets.

Earlier this year, Larry Fitzgerald (yeah, ol' Fitz-Money himself) had one catch for 4 yards against New England (who have no DB's even close to as good as Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Nnamdi Asomugha).

Those average schmoes don't deserve Mike Wallace money. :stirpot

birtikidis
10-09-2012, 12:50 PM
What player for the Rats was talking up Brown and downplaying Wallace? I think they both have tremendous value. Brown is that underneath guy who can get open deep at times. Wallace is more of a deep guy, but he can catch that short route at times and make something happen. They compliment each other very well. If we had a better run game, imagine how good they could be on the play action.

Oviedo
10-09-2012, 01:59 PM
What player for the Rats was talking up Brown and downplaying Wallace? I think they both have tremendous value. Brown is that underneath guy who can get open deep at times. Wallace is more of a deep guy, but he can catch that short route at times and make something happen. They compliment each other very well. If we had a better run game, imagine how good they could be on the play action.

Wallace may be able to catch the short pass but he isn't a yards after catch guy. That is Brown and Sanders. Wallace goes down pretty quick like Nate Washington use to.

birtikidis
10-09-2012, 02:04 PM
Wallace may be able to catch the short pass but he isn't a yards after catch guy. That is Brown and Sanders. Wallace goes down pretty quick like Nate Washington use to.
It's hard to figure out his YAC because most of those yards are on longer passes. His YAC on short passes isnt' great but he can do it. It's not his strength (kind of like Browns strength is the short yac stuff). see the balance there?

lloydroid
10-09-2012, 02:11 PM
Why can't people just enjoy the win?

It truly wasn't enjoyable, even though it was a win; not all the Steelers fault, some had to do with garbage league and horrid flag feast. But that was one of the worst wins of all time.

Slapstick
10-09-2012, 02:47 PM
Some perspective...

Last night, Andre Johnson had one catch for 15 yards against the Revis-less Jets.

Earlier this year, Larry Fitzgerald (yeah, ol' Fitz-Money himself) had one catch for 4 yards against New England (who have no DB's even close to as good as Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Nnamdi Asomugha).

Those average schmoes don't deserve Mike Wallace money. :stirpot

Did those average schmoes have an 8 game letdown like Wallace did last year?

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-09-2012, 02:52 PM
What player for the Rats was talking up Brown and downplaying Wallace? I think they both have tremendous value. Brown is that underneath guy who can get open deep at times. Wallace is more of a deep guy, but he can catch that short route at times and make something happen. They compliment each other very well. If we had a better run game, imagine how good they could be on the play action.

Don't remember which one, but it was a DB.

steelz09
10-09-2012, 04:11 PM
Again, I’d like to bring up Brandon Marshall because I feel Marshall’s contract has a lot of relevance in the pricing of Mike Wallace.

In the offseason, Marshall signed a deal that averaged 9.5 million a year.

In the same offseason, Wallace reportedly declined an offer that averaged 10 million a year.

Marshall is a bit older and clearly isn't as fast as Wallace. However, he’s still a very legit deep threat. Marshall is physically much more dominant, demands double teams, fights for the ball, a good blocker and does well in short to intermediate routes. To me, Marshall is a physical beast of a WR that is dynamic for his size. He’s right below the top tier WRs (A. Johnson, C. Johnson, Fitzgerald, AJ Green – In no particular order)

IMO, I think Wallace getting offered Brandon Marshall-type money is EXTREMELY generous. I just can’t understand why he didn’t accept that offer. Does he think he’s a better overall receiver than Marshall? The only thing he has over Marshall is a bit more speed and less concern over his fuzzy past and medical condition.

Does he think he’s Fitzgerald? Haha.. No need to even go there. I don’t know but I think he’s CLEARLY overestimating his worth to teams that know any better.

Shawn
10-09-2012, 04:28 PM
Based upon what? Upon how Brown was making catches while covered by Nnamdi?

Based upon a delusional disorder. Brown can do it all, and imo is actually much harder to cover than Wallace in those intermediate routes. Brown has elite quicks...gets in and out of routes as well as anyone I have ever seen. I believe he also has better hands than Wallace.

Oviedo
10-09-2012, 04:29 PM
Again, I’d like to bring up Brandon Marshall because I feel Marshall’s contract has a lot of relevance in the pricing of Mike Wallace.

In the offseason, Marshall signed a deal that averaged 9.5 million a year.

In the same offseason, Wallace reportedly declined an offer that averaged 10 million a year.

Marshall is a bit older and clearly isn't as fast as Wallace. However, he’s still a very legit deep threat. Marshall is physically much more dominant, demands double teams, fights for the ball, a good blocker and does well in short to intermediate routes. To me, Marshall is a physical beast of a WR that is dynamic for his size. He’s right below the top tier WRs (A. Johnson, C. Johnson, Fitzgerald, AJ Green – In no particular order)

IMO, I think Wallace getting offered Brandon Marshall-type money is EXTREMELY generous. I just can’t understand why he didn’t accept that offer. Does he think he’s a better overall receiver than Marshall? The only thing he has over Marshall is a bit more speed and less concern over his fuzzy past and medical condition.

Does he think he’s Fitzgerald? Haha.. No need to even go there. I don’t know but I think he’s CLEARLY overestimating his worth to teams that know any better.


Yep. Wallace got MORE than a fair offer from the Steelers. However, I will continue to go back to what I think the real issue is--the bright light from the glow of Antonio Brown is a little too intense for Wallace's psyche to handle for the next 4-5 years of his career. Wallace wants to go where he knows he will be the #1 and he knows that isn't guaranteed here.

Eich
10-09-2012, 04:48 PM
Yep. Wallace got MORE than a fair offer from the Steelers. However, I will continue to go back to what I think the real issue is--the bright light from the glow of Antonio Brown is a little too intense for Wallace's psyche to handle for the next 4-5 years of his career. Wallace wants to go where he knows he will be the #1 and he knows that isn't guaranteed here.

Maybe. But a SMART person would swallow the ego and take the guaranteed millions now instead of hoping for something more down the road. The Steelers can control Wallace's destiny THIS season AND NEXT season. If it were me, I'd be signed already, set for life, making more than Brown and concentrating on building my brand so that I can make even significantly more in endorsements.

Oviedo
10-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Maybe. But a SMART person would swallow the ego and take the guaranteed millions now instead of hoping for something more down the road. The Steelers can control Wallace's destiny THIS season AND NEXT season. If it were me, I'd be signed already, set for life, making more than Brown and concentrating on building my brand so that I can make even significantly more in endorsements.

A "smart person" whould not have held out of training camp when the Steelers told you they wouldn't negotiate with you as long as you were gone and therefore you would have no choice but to play for the $3.7M tag amount on you. A "smart person" especially wouldn't do it when the team could lock you up for an additional year next year and the combined value would be less than they offered you if you had accepted their more than generous offer.

Nothing Wallace has done in the past 6-8 months would lead you to believe he is a "smart person" in these matters.

hawaiiansteel
10-09-2012, 06:13 PM
What player for the Rats was talking up Brown and downplaying Wallace?

Ravens Vs. Steelers: Lardarius Webb Says Antonio Brown ‘Better Than’ Mike Wallace

Nov 2nd, 2011

If you ask Baltimore Ravens cornerback Lardarius Webb about Wallace, as reporters did on Wednesday, and he’ll tell you Wallace isn’t even the best receiver on his own team.

“Every time somebody asks me [a question], they’re always talking about Mike Wallace,” said Webb, according to Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com. “But they have a guy No. 84 in Antonio Brown who is better than 17 [Wallace] in all aspects of the game. He’s a great returner, a great wide receiver.”

http://steelersmobile.com/wp/16900

Eddie Spaghetti
10-09-2012, 06:16 PM
I sure am glad I have you guys here to tell me what smart people do.

are all you guys professional athletes in a contract dispute?

RuthlessBurgher
10-09-2012, 06:20 PM
Again, I’d like to bring up Brandon Marshall because I feel Marshall’s contract has a lot of relevance in the pricing of Mike Wallace.

In the offseason, Marshall signed a deal that averaged 9.5 million a year.

In the same offseason, Wallace reportedly declined an offer that averaged 10 million a year.

Marshall is a bit older and clearly isn't as fast as Wallace. However, he’s still a very legit deep threat. Marshall is physically much more dominant, demands double teams, fights for the ball, a good blocker and does well in short to intermediate routes. To me, Marshall is a physical beast of a WR that is dynamic for his size. He’s right below the top tier WRs (A. Johnson, C. Johnson, Fitzgerald, AJ Green – In no particular order)

IMO, I think Wallace getting offered Brandon Marshall-type money is EXTREMELY generous. I just can’t understand why he didn’t accept that offer. Does he think he’s a better overall receiver than Marshall? The only thing he has over Marshall is a bit more speed and less concern over his fuzzy past and medical condition.

Does he think he’s Fitzgerald? Haha.. No need to even go there. I don’t know but I think he’s CLEARLY overestimating his worth to teams that know any better.

Marshall is a physical freak who has also has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Check out the entries under the "Legal" heading of his Wikipedia page:


According to Orlando-Orange County public records (case 48-2004-MM-012392-O), on Halloween 2004, while a student at UCF, Marshall was arrested in Orlando on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer, refusal to obey, disorderly conduct and resisting an officer.[59]

On January 1, 2007, Marshall was present at "The Shelter," a nightclub in Denver, Colorado, along with teammates Javon Walker and Darrent Williams. The trio was attending a birthday party held for and by Denver Nuggets forward Kenyon Martin. As the players were leaving the club in a limousine, Williams was fatally shot in the neck after an unknown assailant opened fire on the vehicle. Willie Clark was later charged with the murder.[60] Walker has stated in interviews that the shooter was likely a nightclub patron whose motive was retaliation after being involved in an altercation with Marshall's cousin earlier that night.[61][62]

On March 26, 2007, Marshall was arrested in the Highlands Ranch suburb of Denver on suspicion of domestic violence after his girlfriend reported that following a domestic dispute, Marshall prevented a taxi she was in from leaving his house.[63] Charges from the incident were later dismissed on May 25, 2007, after Marshall completed anger management counseling.[64]

In the early morning of October 22, 2007, Marshall was arrested in the Denver-Aurora metropolitan area at the intersection of 14th and Blake St. for driving under the influence of alcohol.[65] A trial was scheduled for September 16, but Marshall instead agreed to a plea bargain four days earlier; he pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of driving while ability impaired.[66] He was sentenced to one-year probation and 24 hours of community service.

On June 12, 2008, Marshall was ticketed for an illegal lane change, then found to be without his license and proof of insurance.[67] The case was eventually dropped as part of a plea bargain for the October 22, 2007 driving incident involving alcohol.[66]

According to an article published in the Rocky Mountain News on July 28, 2008, Douglas County deputies fielded "about 11" calls to Marshall's home since January 2006. The article stated that one call resulted in Marshall being arrested (the March 26, 2007 domestic dispute), and some did not involve him at all.[68]

A September 17, 2008 article on CompleteColorado.com stated that the solicitor's office in Fulton County, Georgia filed misdemeanor battery charges on September 10 for an alleged incident on March 4, 2008, in Atlanta, Georgia. Marshall was booked on March 6, then released the next day after posting a $1,000 cash bond.[69] The case was assigned to Judge John Mather in Georgia state court.[70] On August 14, 2009, a jury in Atlanta found Marshall not guilty.[71]

On March 1, 2009, Marshall was arrested in Atlanta for disorderly conduct after allegedly being involved in a fight with his fiancee, Michi Nogami-Campbell. Marshall was released on a $300 bond.[72] The charges were dropped the following day.[73]

On April 23, 2011, Marshall was stabbed near his stomach by his wife, Michi Nogami-Marshall. He was taken to a hospital and was released two days later. He has since made a full recovery.[74][75]

It was later revealed by police that Marshall's wife did make a brief 911 call, but it only described an unspecified emergency and no mention of a stabbing ever took place. She is charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and is free on $7,500 bail.

In a South Florida Sun-Sentinel article published on July 30, 2011, it was revealed that Marshall was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at Boston's McLean Hospital after his incident with Nogami-Campbell.[76] He is currently pursuing treatment for his mental illness and filming a documentary about his struggle.

On early Sunday, March 11, 2012, two days before his trade to the Bears, Marshall was accused of hitting a woman in the face at a New York club and being involved in a melee. The New York Post stated that Marshall, his wife and some friends were at Marquee when a brawl ensued, and Marshall punched the woman below her left eye, although he may have been attempting to hit the woman's friends.[77] The investigation later ended after a lack of evidence of Marshall's role in the incident.[78]

In contrast, Mike Wallace doesn't even have a "Legal" section on his Wikipedia page, because there is no need for one.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-09-2012, 06:26 PM
I keep waiting for someone to tell me who is going to replace wallaces TD production. You would have thought the endzone had a force field around it on sunday with one WR tripping over his own two feet and the other running into a tackle when it was wide open on the outside.

make no mistake this team will struggle to make up that production. With all the howling about the defense being done, and it is bad, it doesn't make much sense to let your top scorer walk out the door.

steelz09
10-09-2012, 06:39 PM
Marshall is a physical freak who has also has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Check out the entries under the "Legal" heading of his Wikipedia page:



In contrast, Mike Wallace doesn't even have a "Legal" section on his Wikipedia page, because there is no need for one.

How many of those "legal" issues were before he was treated? Basically, all of them. Add in the fact that many were "claims" and he wasn't convicted of anything almost reminds me of someone.... who is that someone again? Oh yeah, our QB, Mr. Roethlisberger.

Marshall is getting paid 9.5 million because of his on-field production as will Wallace in due time.. My point is, Wallace is not a good as Marshall but he's demanding more money than Marshall.

RuthlessBurgher
10-09-2012, 06:59 PM
Wallace is not a good as Marshall but he's demanding more money than Marshall.

Wallace is looking for Desean Jackson & Vincent Jackson money.

The most catches Wallace had in a season is 72 (last year, when many Steeler fans believe he didn't even bother showing up for the second half of the season). Career high catches in a season for DJax is 62 and for VJax is 68.

The most yards Wallace had in a season is 1257. Career high yardage in a season for DJax is 1156 and for VJax is 1167.

The most TD's Wallace has scored in a season is 10. Career high TD's in a season for DJax is 9 and for VJax is 9.

Desean's contract:


3/14/2012: Signed a five-year, $47 million contract. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed -- a $10 million signing bonus, Jackson's first-year base salary, $4 million of his second-year salary, and $750,000 of his third-year salary. Another $4 million is available through incentives. Jackson is eligible for annual $200,000 workout bonuses throughout the contract's life. 2012: $750,000, 2013: $6.75 million, 2014: $10.25 million, 2015-2016: $9.75 million, 2017: Free Agent

Vincent's contract:


3/13/2012: Signed a five-year, $55,555,555 contract. The deal contains $26 million guaranteed, including a $2 million first-year reporting bonus and all of Jackson's first two base salaries. 2012: $11 million, 2013: $13 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015-2016: $9.778 million, 2017: Free Agent

pittpete
10-09-2012, 07:22 PM
I thought this thread was about Wallaces' heart or lack of?
Bottom line is Wallace gave up.
Whether it be the fact he was getting held or interfered with or Ben wasn't looking his way enough, he gave up.
Wallaces' attitude is crap.
He gave up on his team against the Eagles and he gave up on his team during training camp.
Wallace is about Wallace.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-09-2012, 07:27 PM
I thought this thread was about Wallaces' heart or lack of?
Bottom line is Wallace gave up.
Whether it be the fact he was getting held or interfered with or Ben wasn't looking his way enough, he gave up.
Wallaces' attitude is crap.
He gave up on his team against the Eagles and he gave up on his team during training camp.
Wallace is about Wallace.

Except in a way, he's not (gets back to the IQ or bad agent thing ...). If he were about Wallace, he would do the best he could for Wallace which would mean producing as much as possible FOR THE STEELERS ... giving up on plays is neither in Wallace's, nor (as we know) the Steelers', best interest.

hawaiiansteel
10-09-2012, 07:45 PM
I keep waiting for someone to tell me who is going to replace wallaces TD production. You would have thought the endzone had a force field around it on sunday with one WR tripping over his own two feet and the other running into a tackle when it was wide open on the outside.

make no mistake this team will struggle to make up that production. With all the howling about the defense being done, and it is bad, it doesn't make much sense to let your top scorer walk out the door.


would you give Mike Wallace the $11.5 million/year contract he's asking for?

flippy
10-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Wallace is looking for Desean Jackson & Vincent Jackson money.


I think the Steelers were probably thinking that way and Wally is thinking bigger. Considering Desean was tagged vs Wally's tender, Wally should have gotten about $8M less than DJ. That was this year. Why overpay him now when we can just franchise him at the end of the year?

So we'll probably get to the end of this year, franchise him and try to do a DJ deal at that point. He'll probably earn a little more next year with a good season and the cap going up. So he waited. Waiting and having a good season might net him an extra $15M next year from the Steelers imho. Risky? Sure. But worth the wait to Wally? Sure.

Both sides probably see it as a win win. Steelers don't have to pay now. They get time for Brown/Sanders to develop. They can always franchise Wally for a few years and then let him go in a worst case scenario when the other guys are ready. And they keep Wally playing for a contract.

It's a win for Wally. Worst case he gets franchised for a couple years by the Steelers. Likely makes slightly more than he would in a long term contract. And we he does a long term deal with the Steelers or another team, it will be a bigger deal and make him more money. He just has to stay healthy. That's a big risk in the NFL. But I like that he's willing to take it cause it really is in the team's best interest and ours too as fans.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-09-2012, 08:34 PM
would you give Mike Wallace the $11.5 million/year contract he's asking for?

where did he ask for that? I haven't seen anythjng from either side, only idle speculation. Also you forget guaranteed money. I have said 45-50 million over 5 years with about 22-25 guaranteed. I believe that would be good for both sides. But I'm not wallace. He plays for the steelers and isn't necessarily a fan.

my biggest problem with wallaces detractors is that they rail against wallace for somehow being unseemly and selfish, while he only wants fair market value for his services. These people sit in their ivory towers an tell mike wallace what is fair. And say his ego is out of control and that he is selfish. And then I listen to Eric Winston say pretty much that NFL players live shorter lives and they accept it. But they should take less to stay in pittsburgh.

nope, not me. Wallace has performed and earned a fat new deal somewhere. He did exactly what he was supposed to do and handled this extremely well, IMO. Some are just bitter.

do I think the steelers will be that team? I say its still 50-50 at this point. They still have the leverage, but the poor showing by the defense may actually help him. They will need every point they can get, this year and surely next.

hawaiiansteel
10-09-2012, 08:48 PM
I have said 45-50 million over 5 years with about 22-25 guaranteed. I believe that would be good for both sides.



that is a fair proposal but the problem with those figures is that Mike Wallace won't sign for that.

I'm all for signing him, but it has to be for the right price or I would just go ahead and franchise him next season and try to negotiate a long-term contract with him once again.

steelz09
10-09-2012, 09:10 PM
I don't know if Wallace gave up per se but I do know he had a terrible day. Players have bad games but there was a severe lack of effort on several plays.

I keep hearing that Wallace wants DJ or VJ money but I don't know if that is rumor or facts.

The reason I used Marshall as a reference are the following:

1) He got his long term contract this offseason. Obviously, that is important because players salaries get escalated each year.

2) He is an elite WR. He may not be top 3 or top 5 but he is still a legit top tier #1 receiver.

and most importantly........

3) Several media reports said the Steelers offered 10 million / year for I think 5 years.

Now... This is Marshall's contract:

5 years / 47.3 million.



2012
9,300,000
-
200,000
9,500,000


2013
9,100,000
-
200,000
9,300,000


2014
9,100,000
-
200,000
9,300,000



Obviously, he thinks he's worth more than Marshall. I do not. He might get the money though but I don't think he should get paid more than a player that is superior to him on the field.

virgilbosetti
10-09-2012, 09:22 PM
My son had a hockey game, so I missed the 2nd and 3rd qrt. On Mendhenhalls TD Wallace ran across....a MLB got tied and up and he was WIDE open. Would have walked into the endzone. Mendy made a nice play. Anyone at the game to see Wallace's reaction. Would have had to be on visitors side low in order to notice both. TV angle cut out when he stopped and turned to watch Mendy score. Just curious if he had a reaction. I always notice stupid little things like that....not sure why???

pittpete
10-09-2012, 10:51 PM
Do you think maybe the Steelers know that Wallace has a tendency to not go all out or has major character issues
Maybe that's why they didn't want to give him the big payday.
Perhaps they noticed the lack of production in the 2nd half of last season in his contract year.
They know the insides and outs of Wallace the person a lot better than we do.
He's playing for a new contract and he should be going ALL OUT every game instead of sulking.
Fortunately for him, Mr. Wallace knows that a lot of NFL owners are willing to throw down the big $$$$$ to guys that are underperforming.
Steelers telling Mike, you want the big $$$$ than show us you are worth it by not taking games off.
It is not that hard to understand that by Mike's body language that he has a lot of maturing to do.

NorthCoast
10-09-2012, 10:59 PM
Did you know among active WRs Mike Wallace is ranked:
16th in rec yds per game (66.5)
60th this year at 13.2 yds/rec
38th in rec %rate this year among WRs (33rd last year)
27th in rec/gm (25th last year)
7th in TD rec (11th last year)
Mike Wallace averages 4.5 catches per game over the last two seasons.

I'll let yinz decide whether these numbers make him worth 11 mil/yr (which if you do the math works out to about $153000 per catch or about $1.4M per TD based on last year's production.

RuthlessBurgher
10-10-2012, 12:29 AM
Did you know among active WRs Mike Wallace is ranked:
16th in rec yds per game (66.5)
60th this year at 13.2 yds/rec
38th in rec %rate this year among WRs (33rd last year)
27th in rec/gm (25th last year)
7th in TD rec (11th last year)
Mike Wallace averages 4.5 catches per game over the last two seasons.

I'll let yinz decide whether these numbers make him worth 11 mil/yr (which if you do the math works out to about $153000 per catch or about $1.4M per TD based on last year's production.

Anyone want to figure out Timmons' dollars per tackle? Woodley's dollars per sack? Colon's dollars per holding penalty?

So far in his career, Antonio Brown is averaging 1 TD catch per season, and since he just signed a big 5 year, $42.5 million contract, he better improve upon that TD production, since an $8.5 million per TD pace ain't getting it done.

NJ-STEELER
10-10-2012, 01:55 AM
Wallace may be able to catch the short pass but he isn't a yards after catch guy. That is Brown and Sanders. Wallace goes down pretty quick like Nate Washington use to.


sanders???

what the heck has he done to make you think that. the guy can barely stay on the field

gimmie a break

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-10-2012, 10:26 AM
Anyone want to figure out Timmons' dollars per tackle? Woodley's dollars per sack? Colon's dollars per holding penalty?


I'd say that best bang for the buck is Colon. We are only paying him something like ten bucks per holding penalty. :p

hawaiiansteel
10-10-2012, 02:16 PM
Do you think maybe the Steelers know that Wallace has a tendency to not go all out or has major character issues
Maybe that's why they didn't want to give him the big payday.
Perhaps they noticed the lack of production in the 2nd half of last season in his contract year.
They know the insides and outs of Wallace the person a lot better than we do.
He's playing for a new contract and he should be going ALL OUT every game instead of sulking.
Fortunately for him, Mr. Wallace knows that a lot of NFL owners are willing to throw down the big $$$$$ to guys that are underperforming.
Steelers telling Mike, you want the big $$$$ than show us you are worth it by not taking games off.
It is not that hard to understand that by Mike's body language that he has a lot of maturing to do.

the Steelers were reportedly not pleased the second half of last season when Wallace slumped that he sulked on many occasions...

AngryAsian
10-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Obviously Mike's production/effort is confusing. Some posters feel both are the same while others see them as separate issues. My perspective regarding his EFFORT is a concern and my opinion is that if he feels he deserves a bigger payday from the FO, then he should be shoving a huge "I'll show you f*ckers" enema up the FO's proverbial poop-shute via stellar play and fantastic professionalism. Basically, just do your job and not give up on plays. As for other's assertions on the value he brings to our team, no one is refuting what he has done for us in his short career, he just needs to continue. As for the squawks about how he will fare elsewhereand we will end up missing his talents..... Just two words... Santonio Holmes.

steelz09
10-10-2012, 10:16 PM
Maybe Cam Newton and Mike Wallace can have a sulking party.

pittpete
10-10-2012, 10:53 PM
Cams not playing for a contract,Wallace is