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hawaiiansteel
09-28-2012, 09:48 PM
Steelers Foote Says Players Don’t Trust LeBeau

Sep 26th, 2012 by Craig Gottschalk

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/58/files/2012/09/6521016.jpg?f8791e

Steelers linebacker Larry Foote said on Wednesday:

"Sometimes, you can get caught up in just trying to play hard and aggressive, but you’re not trusting the defense. Not the other players, but the defense. And that can’t happen. The bottom line is that we have to make a play when we get a chance."

Wait…. what? You’re telling me that even your players now don’t trust the defensive system? It’s one thing that fans, pundits, and bloggers who think they know it all rip Dick LeBeau and his system apart week to week when the team loses. But when the players – one of your own defensive leaders – admits that when they step on the field and doubt what’s being called… now that’s a problem.

It’s harsh words from Foote, but whether it comes from a place of truth or more of an excuse for not executing and making plays when they (or just Foote) need to is inconsequential. The bottom line for fans, coaches and players is that the defense needs to make plays. And that, they are not doing.

There’s is where LeBeau’s stubbornness really is beginning to hurt the team. The predictability of play calling – based on things Carson Palmer did during the game and said after – is starting to shred this defense that is banged up, bleeding, and looking for any type of relief. The absence of Polamalu and Harrison are greatly hurting the team. Young players are far from stepping up and filling their shoes. You can’t call the same plays you would for your stars and starters when average Joes are on the field and expect to get the results. The defensive schemes need to change in order to accomodate for Cris Carter’s inability to clear the edge like Harrison does.The middle of the field needs help with coverage to accomodate for Ryan Mundy’s inability to play tight up front and then escape downfield if someone goes deep. The list goes on.

In addition, were any of these guys to have an off night – the rest of the system falls apart. There’s no arguing that LeBeau’s system is sheer brilliance. But it is catastrophic to have a system in place that is completely dependent upon each and every player working within the realm of perfection. That is a flawed system.

And, with the aging defense and the increased risks of players becoming injured, opposing offenses will continue to shred this defense. That you can trust.

http://nicepickcowher.com/2012/09/26/steelers-foote-says-players-dont-trust-lebeau/

D Rock
09-28-2012, 10:08 PM
I think that may be a stretch of his words. Larry Foote has been around long enough and is respectful enough not to say that of Lebeau.

In my opinion, what he meant was that he couldn't always trust the defense as a unit to make the stop...not that he couldn't trust any one player, but everyone collectively.

stopplayn
09-28-2012, 10:12 PM
Lebeau is not above criticism. He has been giving up leads since in Cincy in the 80's. He needs to press at the line.

steelz09
09-28-2012, 10:14 PM
I think that may be a stretch of his words. Larry Foote has been around long enough and is respectful enough not to say that of Lebeau.

In my opinion, what he meant was that he couldn't always trust the defense as a unit to make the stop...not that he couldn't trust any one player, but everyone collectively.

Yeah, I think that is definitely taking his words out of context.

hawaiiansteel
09-29-2012, 03:44 AM
On the Steelers: Defense has problems, and predictability is one of them

By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It's not so much that the Steelers defense is old and slow, now they are predictable?

Some Oakland Raiders made that claim Sunday, including wide receiver Derek Hagan, who credited quarterback Carson Palmer for diagramming Dick LeBeau's defense for his teammates and then picking it apart.

"They pretty much did the same thing that they did six, seven years ago when he was playing with Cincinnati," Hagan said of the former Bengals quarterback. "Obviously, they've got a legendary D-coordinator over there. He's been running certain things that other teams have seen, that we've seen. We knew their tendencies and we were able to hit them with some big plays when it really counted."

Predictable? Guilty as charged said Steelers safety Ryan Clark.

"Sometimes, when you speed up the offense, you can call the same plays and kind of get stuck in the same plays," Clark said of defending Oakland's no-huddle offense Sunday.

"We really haven't been that hard to figure out the last seven years I've been here. We've been running the same things, we call the same things. It's not about being predictable, it's about executing.

"Coach LeBeau puts us in a call, we have to execute the right way. It doesn't matter if you know what we're doing if you can stop it."

Here are the adjustments Clark suggests:

"That's what we have to get back to doing, no matter what the call is, the guys across from us, kicking his butt and getting to the ball."

That defense usually becomes a little less predictable when a healthy Troy Polamalu and James Harrison join it, which is what both did Tuesday in practice. Harrison missed the first three regular-season games with his bothersome knee, and Polamalu missed the past two with a calf injury. Polamalu intends to play when the Steelers face Philadelphia at home Oct. 7 after their off week. Harrison's participation will depend, again, on how his knee responds between now and then.

"It'll help," linebacker LaMarr Woodley said. "Those are key guys back, that definitely makes a big difference on this defense. So having them back would definitely be great for this defense."

Perhaps surprisingly, that defense ranks among the best in the NFL in yards allowed. It ranks fifth against the pass (190.3 yards permitted per game) and seventh overall (291.3) in a league that leans more and more to offense.

Still, it's not what the Steelers are accustomed to doing. They finished first in the NFL last season in fewest yards allowed, passing yards allowed and points allowed. Yet they have continued another trend from 2011 in that they are also producing fewer turnovers and sacks.

Woodley has two of his team's five sacks, which are tied for 22nd in the NFL. They have produced only two turnovers, and their three as a team (one fumble recovery on a muffed punt return) is tied for 24th.

Last season, they managed a 21-year low of 35 sacks and 16 turnovers.

Forget their rankings, the Steelers realize they are not playing good defense.

"It stinks," Clark said of the way they've played. "It's not the way we play defense. It's not the way we train and work all week to come out and play. But coach LeBeau says sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.

"They scored a lot of points, and we didn't stop them. We can't point fingers at anybody, we have to use our thumbs and point them at ourselves and be better."

Said Woodley, "Even if we won the game on Sunday, we still played bad on defense."
Clark suggested it's not necessarily the "old" guys.

"I think what you lose, you lose chemistry sometimes when guys go out. We have to work together and fit together properly, that more than anything. It's not that guys aren't talented enough, we're not fitting the defense like coach LeBeau wants us to do."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-clark-were-too-predictable-654864/#ixzz27po7P0JI

DBR96A
09-29-2012, 06:02 AM
Ironic that when everybody was waiting for Ben Roethlisberger and Todd Haley to have an explosion on the sidelines, the defense imploded on the field.

Slapstick
09-29-2012, 08:01 AM
Holy crap, Craig Gottschalk!!

How about reading what Larry Foote actually says?

The defense doesn't trust each other...which is probably worse than not trusting LeBeau...

Oviedo
09-29-2012, 09:17 AM
LeBeau too stubborn to change? Who would have ever thought let alone said that???????????????????;) Fairly obvious to anyone who wants to see it because he don't think his "baby" could ever be ugly.

pittpete
09-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Oviedo I'm beginning to see your point.
Other teams have figured us out on defense.
If we have the players in there that can be perfect on every play then we succeed, but if one player is out of position the D folds like a house of cards.
Right now we dont have the players to make Lebeaus defense work so he needs to adjust like he did during the Jets game.
In Oakland the stubborn old guy was back.:eek:

aggiebones
09-29-2012, 01:42 PM
The new guys don't know their assignments.
The defense HAS worked and these current kids can't get it done, so it is getting exposed. Lebeau can't do anything special because the new players don't know the basics of his defense. The results of sub-par backups playing too much is not surprising. Blame Lebeau if you need, but that's really ridiculous. Players need to prove they can handle his system and they haven't.

pittpete
09-29-2012, 01:47 PM
If Lebeau has the players then it works.
If he doesnt have players and it doesnt work, then it is up to the coach to adjust and call things that work.
Sort of like Arians over the past few years.

Oviedo
09-29-2012, 02:40 PM
Oviedo I'm beginning to see your point.
Other teams have figured us out on defense.
If we have the players in there that can be perfect on every play then we succeed, but if one player is out of position the D folds like a house of cards.
Right now we dont have the players to make Lebeaus defense work so he needs to adjust like he did during the Jets game.
In Oakland the stubborn old guy was back.:eek:

It's been that way for the past couple of seasons. He won't change what he does. I don't know if it is ego or just doesn't know what to do but we have to make some major changes. Our defense should fit our players not pound our round players into a square defense.

My fundamental issue all along has been the talent pool. What we try to do "converting" players and "projecting" how players will fit in new positions in IMO inefficient and unsustainable. That is why we have had to hold onto players for so long because they are the ones we were successful with the conversion. However, the success rate of the conversions is too low for long term sustainability.

I just think it is so much more efficient to take players and put them in their college positions as 4-3 DT and DE and LBs and let them grow versus turning everything on its head and hoping for the best.

SidSmythe
09-29-2012, 02:56 PM
Seriously....
~Do the Ravens now have a "predictable" defense since it's been around for years???
........or is their defense not as dominant this year as in recent years b/c their personnel isn't dominant?

How about Bill BellyChick???
How long has he been around....does he "mix it up" week to week, year to year.
....I see the Pats defense struggle over the past few years b/c of personnel.

Face it. Right now the Steelers have ONE dominant pass rusher and ONE playmaker that causes turnovers and he's on the sidelines.

Who here really thinks that if Harrison and Troy were 100%, Casey was 29 yrs old and Aaron Smith was 30 and James Farrior was at his peak we'd be blaming LeBeau for our problems???

Oviedo
09-29-2012, 04:02 PM
Seriously....
~Do the Ravens now have a "predictable" defense since it's been around for years???
........or is their defense not as dominant this year as in recent years b/c their personnel isn't dominant?

How about Bill BellyChick???
How long has he been around....does he "mix it up" week to week, year to year.
....I see the Pats defense struggle over the past few years b/c of personnel.

Face it. Right now the Steelers have ONE dominant pass rusher and ONE playmaker that causes turnovers and he's on the sidelines.

Who here really thinks that if Harrison and Troy were 100%, Casey was 29 yrs old and Aaron Smith was 30 and James Farrior was at his peak we'd be blaming LeBeau for our problems???

You captured the essense of the problem. Harrsion and Troy ARE on the sidelines, Casey ISN'T 29 and Smith is gone but LeBeau is running the exact same defense. The probelm is he won't change to account for what he has. You're arguing that it really was always the players and LeBeau without them is at a loss.

And NO I think some people will never blame LeBeau and see him as part of the problem. That is part of the problem because he pretty much has been relieved of any accountability because of past accomplishments. Never a good thing.

RuthlessBurgher
09-29-2012, 04:04 PM
Seems to me that Foote is acknowledging that at times, some players have been attempting to do their own thing outside of the structure of the LeBeau defense, which is one of the major problems that they have been having up to this point so far this year, and he's trying to say players need to just do their job (i.e. trust the defense) instead. Sounds more like a veteran leader explaining to the less experienced members of his defense that everyone needs to play their role effectively in order for the defense to work, instead of shirking your designated responsibilities by trying to be a hero out there. Let me try to interpret what I think he meant, line by line.


"Sometimes, you can get caught up in just trying to play hard and aggressive, but you’re not trusting the defense. Not the other players, but the defense."

Sounds to me like he's saying that guys occassionally try to aggressively make a big play themselves, but thereby vacate their designated gap responsibility within the framework of the overall defense. It's not as if the players don't necessarily trust the guy next to them (and are therefore overcompensating for another player's weaknesses), it's just that your individual desire to go make a play sometimes takes over.


"And that can’t happen."

Now he's acknowledging that can't happen...in order for the LeBeau defense to work, everyone needs to be taking care of their own responsibilites within the defense, rather than going "rogue" in an effort to make a big play. Need to have 11 guys acting as one singular organism working together, rather than 11 guys all trying to make a play on their own.


"The bottom line is that we have to make a play when we get a chance."

We have to make a play when we get a chance, as opposed to going out of your way in an effort to make a play outside of the framework of the defense. We have to win our individual matchups and if the play flows our way, we have to do what we can to make the tackle, sack, interception, pass defensed, whatever.

phillyesq
09-29-2012, 04:26 PM
I just think it is so much more efficient to take players and put them in their college positions as 4-3 DT and DE and LBs and let them grow versus turning everything on its head and hoping for the best.

Please, go back and look at the first round defensive lineman in the past few drafts and tell me if you still believe that. I've posted them many times before, and it does not support your theory.

SteelCrazy
09-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Saying that its execution causing the D to fail is a little obvious. Any D that you play will be successful if the players execute. The biggest change in this D is the player change-over and that is the root to our D's problems.

birtikidis
09-29-2012, 08:17 PM
I can't believe that some ppl don't understand that having your 3rd string olb playing the majority of the snaps... That our only DECENT back up NT retired. That our long term replacement for him is a rookie who is probably playing one gap responsibility instead of two gap. That our training camp wonders only looked good bc they were playing future grocery baggers. And these ppl blame the scheme. Everyone in the world saw this coming. Our entire leadership structure on defense is gone.

Steel Life
09-29-2012, 10:03 PM
Seems to me that Foote is acknowledging that at times, some players have been attempting to do their own thing outside of the structure of the LeBeau defense, which is one of the major problems that they have been having up to this point so far this year, and he's trying to say players need to just do their job (i.e. trust the defense) instead. Sounds more like a veteran leader explaining to the less experienced members of his defense that everyone needs to play their role effectively in order for the defense to work, instead of shirking your designated responsibilities by trying to be a hero out there. Let me try to interpret what I think he meant, line by line.



Sounds to me like he's saying that guys occassionally try to aggressively make a big play themselves, but thereby vacate their designated gap responsibility within the framework of the overall defense. It's not as if the players don't necessarily trust the guy next to them (and are therefore overcompensating for another player's weaknesses), it's just that your individual desire to go make a play sometimes takes over.



Now he's acknowledging that can't happen...in order for the LeBeau defense to work, everyone needs to be taking care of their own responsibilites within the defense, rather than going "rogue" in an effort to make a big play. Need to have 11 guys acting as one singular organism working together, rather than 11 guys all trying to make a play on their own.



We have to make a play when we get a chance, as opposed to going out of your way in an effort to make a play outside of the framework of the defense. We have to win our individual matchups and if the play flows our way, we have to do what we can to make the tackle, sack, interception, pass defensed, whatever.
Excellent breakdown & mirrors my thoughts exactly.

That said, it's clear that Casey has nothing left in the tank & Woodley apparently roomed with Casey during training camp because he looks like he's blimped up & has no explosion...he clearly needs someone to be threat on the other side to be more effective.

ikestops85
09-30-2012, 01:02 AM
Seems to me that Foote is acknowledging that at times, some players have been attempting to do their own thing outside of the structure of the LeBeau defense, which is one of the major problems that they have been having up to this point so far this year, and he's trying to say players need to just do their job (i.e. trust the defense) instead. Sounds more like a veteran leader explaining to the less experienced members of his defense that everyone needs to play their role effectively in order for the defense to work, instead of shirking your designated responsibilities by trying to be a hero out there. Let me try to interpret what I think he meant, line by line.



Sounds to me like he's saying that guys occassionally try to aggressively make a big play themselves, but thereby vacate their designated gap responsibility within the framework of the overall defense. It's not as if the players don't necessarily trust the guy next to them (and are therefore overcompensating for another player's weaknesses), it's just that your individual desire to go make a play sometimes takes over.



Now he's acknowledging that can't happen...in order for the LeBeau defense to work, everyone needs to be taking care of their own responsibilites within the defense, rather than going "rogue" in an effort to make a big play. Need to have 11 guys acting as one singular organism working together, rather than 11 guys all trying to make a play on their own.



We have to make a play when we get a chance, as opposed to going out of your way in an effort to make a play outside of the framework of the defense. We have to win our individual matchups and if the play flows our way, we have to do what we can to make the tackle, sack, interception, pass defensed, whatever.

Thanks Ruthless for being the word of reason. All Foote was saying is you can't freelance. You have to do your job and when it's in your area of responsibility then you have to make the play. I think many on here are making this a big deal when it's really common sense. Foote was just reiterating what everyone already knows.

hawaiiansteel
09-30-2012, 07:43 PM
Has Steelers’ defense become too predictable?

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=VVZAr KsKk3PHOqjj_mmnrM$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYsdlgw907cljYl HGw2_rXtqWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Raiders tightend Brandon Myers pulls in a Carson Palmer pass on the winning drive in front of the Steelers Lawrence Timmons at O.co Coiseum Sept. 23, 2012

By Mark Kaboly
Published: Sunday, September 30, 2012

Seattle had the ball at its 30-yard line early in the third quarter of last year’s home opener, and Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau dialed up one of his patented crossfire blitzes.

Inside linebacker James Farrior crossed in front of Lawrence Timmons while both rushed up the middle, confusing quarterback Tarvaris Jackson’s personal protector, Marshawn Lynch, and leading to a sack.

Fast-forward to the second play of this season’s opening game in Denver. Deep in Broncos territory, LeBeau calls the same blitz, sending Timmons and Larry Foote after Peyton Manning. Timmons tipped his intentions a split-second early, allowing Manning to know there would be zone coverage. Manning hit Eric Decker for a 13-yard gain in the zone’s soft spot.

Same scheme. Same defensive coordinator. Same blitz call. Different result.

Following an uncharacteristically bad start this season for the Steelers’ defense, the 75-year-old LeBeau — a Hall of Famer — is being criticized for becoming too predictable with a once cutting-edge defense.

Oakland receiver Derek Hagan said after a 34-31 win last week that the Raiders knew how the Steelers would attack certain plays. Denver’s Brandon Stokley stated a similar stance two weeks earlier after host Denver’s 31-19 victory.

“It doesn’t matter if you know what we are doing,” safety Ryan Clark said, “if you can’t stop it.”

EARLY STRUGGLES

But what happens when teams do stop it? A defense that has been so good in the past eight years — it finished as the NFL’s best unit in yards per game four times — starts to be called predictable.

“We haven’t changed here since I’ve been here,” safety Troy Polamalu said. “You can throw on film from Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson and Darren Perry and substitute numbers in, and it is the same exact defense.”

While LeBeau’s zone-blitz scheme is basically the same defense he developed in the 1980s with Cincinnati and the one that gained fame during his first stint with the Steelers in the mid-1990s, it’s never been described as predictable.

“Really, there are only so many defenses that you can call,” said former NFL safety Darren Sharper, now an analyst for NFL Network. “What they are running now is what they ran when I was in the league. They have never done anything exotic to where you were confused.

“(But) I definitely don’t agree that they are predictable because that’s not the case.”

LeBeau’s defense is ranked seventh in the league but has had shortcomings in its two losses. Compared to its first three games last season, the defensive difference has been alarming:

• Opponents are converting 48 percent of third downs this season compared to 36 percent last season.

• The Steelers have hit or pressured opposing quarterbacks 21 times versus 28 times last season.

• They have 10 passes defensed compared to 15 last year.

• The defense has allowed 75 points this season versus 55 points last season.

All of that has contributed to second-half collapses in the Steelers’ losses during which the team failed to prevent an opponent from scoring after halftime.


“I always look at myself first, and I hope (the players) do, too,” LeBeau said. “When things aren’t the way that you want them to be, something’s got to be done differently.”

PERSONNEL PROBLEM?

Former Steelers safety Mike Logan played under LeBeau from 2004-06 and admitted that the scheme never changed, but the calls within the scheme changed significantly week to week and even quarter to quarter.

“I remember during a second half of a game that Coach LeBeau pulled out a dry erase board on the sidelines and drew up different pressures,” Logan said. “He was always changing things during the game. But you have to have the personnel to do that.”

With former NFL Defensive Player of the Year James Harrison and his 58 career sacks yet to play, and Polamalu missing the past two games, LeBeau’s personnel isn’t what it once was.

“I think that is the major factor of why this defense hasn’t played to the level that it has in the past,” Sharper said. “In the past, they just executed their defense exceptionally well. They had guys who were better than they were going against.”

Along with Harrison and Polamalu being out, the Steelers’ defense lost three other starters from last year: Farrior, Aaron Smith and William Gay.

“There is all this talk about us being old,” Clark said. “It is not the old guys, you know … we have to infuse the young talent, and we all have to work together well. What you lose is chemistry when guys go out. We have to learn to fit together properly.”

LeBeau explained it a little more matter-of-factly.

“I’ve got to give them things that they can execute,” he said. “We’ve got to trust each other and trust the defense, and the results will come.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2661896-85/defense-steelers-lebeau-season-predictable-defensive-game-nfl-past-safety#ixzz27zXaystz

pittpete
09-30-2012, 08:15 PM
“I’ve got to give them things that they can execute,” he said. “We’ve got to trust each other and trust the defense, and the results will come.”

With this statement right here, I believe we will look much better against Philly.

hawaiiansteel
09-30-2012, 08:17 PM
Steelers seek remedy for mediocre defense

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=giRSl mal2MIIp0LPz$9z88$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtEdPS2FxoQL7s hEHmLrp9pWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Raiders running back Darren McFadden (right) comes down with the ball as Steelers inside linebacker Larry Foote looks on during the fourth quarter of a game in Oakland, Calif., on Sunday, Sept. 23, 2012

By Alan Robinson
Published: Sunday, September 30, 2012

Cam Heyward often wears a “Steel Curtain” T-shirt, a sign that he recognizes the tradition of defensive excellence that is not only expected but is mandated whenever a player joins the Steelers.

Let down in a single game, and you are letting down Mel Blount and Jack Ham, Joe Greene and Rod Woodson, Jack Lambert and your teammates, Troy Polamalu and James Harrison.

A season ago, the Steelers allowed the fewest yards and points in the NFL. It wasn’t an anomaly. Since the 1970 NFL merger, they also are No. 1 in the same two categories, which measure not just a team’s ability to control an opponent but to keep it off the scoreboard.

“This city’s built on defense,” linebacker Larry Foote said. “This locker room is built on it.”

Except that being without Harrison (knee) for the season to date and Polamalu (calf) for two games has significantly weakened that foundation. The Steelers aren’t getting off the field on third downs, aren’t pressuring the quarterback consistently, aren’t getting off the field at all in the second half.

“We aren’t whipping the guy across from us,” safety Ryan Clark said.

When they resume practicing Monday following their weekend off, the Steelers will try to sort out whether going from the top of the heap to the middle or below in numerous statistical categories represents a fixable letdown or a non-repairable breakdown.

They don’t know when they’ll get back Harrison, who can’t seem to get on the practice field regularly, much less play a game. They expect Polamalu to be all right — he practiced last week — but he’s 31, so it might be unfair to anticipate him being the player he was only a couple of years ago.

No, whether this defense will begin to resemble those of the recent past will be up to Heyward and Ziggy Hood, Foote and Lawrence Timmons, Keenan Lewis and Ike Taylor.

“In this business, you are never as good as you think you are and you are never quite as bad as maybe they say you are,” defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau said. “We are getting good effort and good plays, but not enough.”

That was evident when Peyton Manning led three scoring drives during the second half in Denver, and when Carson Palmer led five scoring drives in the second half in Oakland. And a defense that rarely allows big plays already has given up a 71-yard touchdown pass (Demaryius Thomas) and a 64-yard TD run (Darren McFadden).

They have only five sacks, only three turnovers forced. Opponents are converting at a 48 percent rate on third down (16 of 33), the fifth highest in the league.

“That’s why we call third down the ‘money down,’ ” Foote said. “You’ve got to get off the field.”

Foote and LeBeau both suggested the defensive lapses have occurred in part because players are trying to do too much, such as failing to control their gap when they see a teammate in distress.

“I found with this group of guys that generally that is a condition,” LeBeau said. “If a team is moving the ball a little bit, they want to do a little more to stop them. That is a good problem to have. But it is a problem nonetheless. We can’t do that. We have to trust the defense, trust the teammate, focus and play.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2681024-85/steelers-defense-aren-defensive-field-foote-lebeau-getting-half-harrison#ixzz27zZvR3nt

chiken
09-30-2012, 11:42 PM
Man its crazy reading some of this stuff to me.. Our Defense against elite Qbs has been awful especially in the 4th qtr of games. How many 4th qtr leads can you guys remember giving up these past few years.

Who are we trying to fool?

Elite qbs kill us - no huddle kills us. us having 4th qtr leads (kills us)

I think our success over the years has more to do with the the lack of great qb play (especially in our division) and less to do with us. Remember how we use to crush cinci but it kinda changed when Carson came into his own and look at the Ravens now with Flacco now coming on.

Our system is not working any more - to many people know what we are doing. maybe its the play calling, maybe its the new league that caters to the Offense now.. who knows.. but its not 2 players, i cant believe that. (so when those 2 HoF players retire are we going back to the stone age?)

Discipline of Steel
10-02-2012, 11:10 PM
nobody has yet mentioned the Goodell effect. the league is on a record breaking track for scoring this year. most points ever! wow isnt that wonderful?
Ol Rog is the anti-thesis of the Steelers and his policies have certainly not helped the Steelers cause during our leadership transition.

BradshawsHairdresser
10-03-2012, 08:38 AM
Too much sucky coaching + too much sucky execution + too many sucky players = sucky results.

Time to stop the suckiness.

LeBeau needs to improve, our defenders need to improve, our O-line and runners need to improve, and there are a few unproductive players that just flat need to be benched.

Stop the suckiness.

fezziwig
10-03-2012, 08:47 AM
Tomlins saying of, the standard is the standard doesn't cut it and Lebeau must have bought into it. You can't call the same plays/schemes when you don't have the same high quality players. Despite the aging players, injured players it is the coaches responsibility to place on the chalk board a scheme that all players can handle or appropriate while the starters are out.
If Troy wouldn't get hurt we would be great and Harrison didn't age he would be a force and if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.........and so on.

Slapstick
10-03-2012, 08:53 AM
Tomlins saying of, the standard is the standard doesn't cut it and Lebeau must have bought into it. You can't call the same plays/schemes when you don't have the same high quality players. Despite the aging players, injured players it is the coaches responsibility to place on the chalk board a scheme that all players can handle or appropriate while the starters are out.
If Troy wouldn't get hurt we would be great and Harrison didn't age he would be a force and if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.........and so on.

LeBeau isn't calling the same plays...the Steelers weren't going after the QB like they normally do when both Polamalu and Harrison are in the starting lineup...

The defense was playing it safe and it backfired because players (especially Keisel in that last game) weren't maintaining their discipline and were trying to do too much...they weren't playing the scheme as LeBeau called it...

Oviedo
10-03-2012, 08:55 AM
nobody has yet mentioned the Goodell effect. the league is on a record breaking track for scoring this year. most points ever! wow isnt that wonderful?
Ol Rog is the anti-thesis of the Steelers and his policies have certainly not helped the Steelers cause during our leadership transition.

Every team in the league has the same "Goodell effect" and some seem to be handling it just fine. It is what it is...adapt or die.

Oviedo
10-03-2012, 08:57 AM
Tomlins saying of, the standard is the standard doesn't cut it and Lebeau must have bought into it. You can't call the same plays/schemes when you don't have the same high quality players. Despite the aging players, injured players it is the coaches responsibility to place on the chalk board a scheme that all players can handle or appropriate while the starters are out.
If Troy wouldn't get hurt we would be great and Harrison didn't age he would be a force and if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.........and so on.

Harrison and Troy are ready to ride off into the sunset sooner than we may want. Is that really a surprise given their age? So why are we running a defense that is completely dependent on them and there appears to be no Plan B. Players leaving and injuries are a reality of the NFL. No defense should collapse if two players aren't there without the folks in charge having a plan.

Slapstick
10-03-2012, 09:07 AM
Harrison and Troy are ready to ride off into the sunset sooner than we may want. Is that really a surprise given their age? So why are we running a defense that is completely dependent on them and there appears to be no Plan B. Players leaving and injuries are a reality of the NFL. No defense should collapse if two players aren't there without the folks in charge having a plan.

They do have a plan. The plan is to play the defense the way it is called. Execute your assignments in a disciplined manner.

They haven't been doing that and Foote said as much.

The Steelers did not have Harrison and Woodley for a significant part of last year...they still finished with the top scoring defense...

They didn't have guys that stepped up and made "splash plays", but they just played sound defense...

The Steelers lose when two things happen: turnovers on offense and allowing big plays on defense...both of these things happened in both losses this year...

ikestops85
10-03-2012, 11:38 AM
Harrison and Troy are ready to ride off into the sunset sooner than we may want. Is that really a surprise given their age? So why are we running a defense that is completely dependent on them and there appears to be no Plan B. Players leaving and injuries are a reality of the NFL. No defense should collapse if two players aren't there without the folks in charge having a plan.

I believe the world champion New York Giants are a great example of a defense collapsing because they were missing 2 defensive linemen. When those guys came back the defense got it together and the Giants won the Super Bowl.

Look at the Ravens this year. They are missing Suggs and their defense stinks. So please don't tell me that a defense shouldn't collapse if they are missing a player or two. It happens all the time.

fezziwig
10-03-2012, 08:36 PM
Harrison and Troy are ready to ride off into the sunset sooner than we may want. Is that really a surprise given their age? So why are we running a defense that is completely dependent on them and there appears to be no Plan B. Players leaving and injuries are a reality of the NFL. No defense should collapse if two players aren't there without the folks in charge having a plan.


I agree totally. Also, I'm not saying that the defense shouldn't take a little hit with the loss of these two but, they are practically going into the tank without these guys. Remember how we couldn't stop the run when Smith was out ? Just seems like our defense depends too much on a spectacular play from one of our heros and eventually, heros will let you down, grow old and move on. This defense seems to be missing the backbone or nucleus that a quality unit should have.

fezziwig
10-03-2012, 08:42 PM
I believe the world champion New York Giants are a great example of a defense collapsing because they were missing 2 defensive linemen. When those guys came back the defense got it together and the Giants won the Super Bowl.

Look at the Ravens this year. They are missing Suggs and their defense stinks. So please don't tell me that a defense shouldn't collapse if they are missing a player or two. It happens all the time.


Were those guys as old as our guys ? Anyway, the trouble is, it's more than just Troy and Harrison out from the games and what, should we just consider the season a loss if these two can't make it ? I wonder how affective these two will be and when their next injury will occur ? I'd like to remain positive but history tells a different story.

It's almost like the excuses that losers had during and after last season. We had a short camp so we weren't accountable for this or that. All teams had a short camp and some of those teams made it to the playoffs and Super Bowl.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
10-04-2012, 10:53 AM
A part of "Predictability" isn't always a bad thing but in DL case it is. The Ravens & 49ers are two of the most predictable defenses in the league when it comes to overall scheme in a game. Did I say that? Absolutely! You know that both of them are NOT going to let their foot off the gas. They will play bump & blitz no matter what the scoreboard says. That is why they are so good. Do they have better personnel getting after the QB right now? Yes they do but I'm talking about the "plan". They don't play into the offense's or QB's hand when they have the lead. They don't "let" the QB beat them...They "make" the QB beat them just like the first snap on D.

When your pass rush is down and you play call from the lead...Most NFL QBs will march their team up & down the field. If you play soft with no pass rush teams will convert 3rd down after 3rd down on you. Yes, the Steelers are struggling with "individuals" capable of winning the 1 on 1's & get to the QB so you have to do it by design. Make the CBs be CBs and get there with numbers. I'm not saying send the house but do your homework and overload. I watch DL's blitzes and he is trying to get there with numbers between the tackles off of a disguised fronts most of the time. I watch other teams get there off of a disguised fronts but they overload between the C & OT. Every defense hears who the C or QB calls out as the "Mike" presnap so the defense knows where the protection is going. Blitz packages can be designed off of the O identifying the "Mike". I see it happen with Lewis & Willis. I don't see it happening on this defense. Is it Foote or DL? I didn't see much of it for years so I would say DL.

NorthCoast
10-04-2012, 12:35 PM
Biggest problem on defense is consistency. Look great for a few plays or even a series, then blow a coverage or miss a tackle leading to a big play. Another indication is penalties. Coaches used to rave about A. Smith's consistency on every play. Scheme may play a factor, but it is the lack of sound basics from all the new faces is causing a lot of problems.

Slapstick
10-04-2012, 03:29 PM
Biggest problem on defense is consistency. Look great for a few plays or even a series, then blow a coverage or miss a tackle leading to a big play. Another indication is penalties. Coaches used to rave about A. Smith's consistency on every play. Scheme may play a factor, but it is the lack of sound basics from all the new faces is causing a lot of problems.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

ikestops85
10-05-2012, 02:51 PM
A part of "Predictability" isn't always a bad thing but in DL case it is. The Ravens & 49ers are two of the most predictable defenses in the league when it comes to overall scheme in a game. Did I say that? Absolutely! You know that both of them are NOT going to let their foot off the gas. They will play bump & blitz no matter what the scoreboard says. That is why they are so good. Do they have better personnel getting after the QB right now? Yes they do but I'm talking about the "plan". They don't play into the offense's or QB's hand when they have the lead. They don't "let" the QB beat them...They "make" the QB beat them just like the first snap on D.

When your pass rush is down and you play call from the lead...Most NFL QBs will march their team up & down the field. If you play soft with no pass rush teams will convert 3rd down after 3rd down on you. Yes, the Steelers are struggling with "individuals" capable of winning the 1 on 1's & get to the QB so you have to do it by design. Make the CBs be CBs and get there with numbers. I'm not saying send the house but do your homework and overload. I watch DL's blitzes and he is trying to get there with numbers between the tackles off of a disguised fronts most of the time. I watch other teams get there off of a disguised fronts but they overload between the C & OT. Every defense hears who the C or QB calls out as the "Mike" presnap so the defense knows where the protection is going. Blitz packages can be designed off of the O identifying the "Mike". I see it happen with Lewis & Willis. I don't see it happening on this defense. Is it Foote or DL? I didn't see much of it for years so I would say DL.

Interesting that you mention the Ravens in this post. You do realize that our defense is ranked 5th in the league and the Ravens are ranked 23rd. That we are giving up 19.0 points per game and the Ravens are giving up 24.8 points per game.

So sure, let's adopt their scheme. :roll:

hawaiiansteel
10-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Interesting that you mention the Ravens in this post. You do realize that our defense is ranked 5th in the league and the Ravens are ranked 23rd. That we are giving up 19.0 points per game and the Ravens are giving up 24.8 points per game.

So sure, let's adopt their scheme. :roll:

the Broncos scored 31 points against us, the Jets 10 and the Raiders 34.

that's 75 points divided by 3 which is 25 points a game. how did you come up with 19?

ikestops85
10-05-2012, 07:47 PM
the Broncos scored 31 points against us, the Jets 10 and the Raiders 34.

that's 75 points divided by 3 which is 25 points a game. how did you come up with 19?

Oooops! :oops:

I read the wrong column on NFL.com

We are giving up 25 points a game and the Ravens are giving up 20.8 ppg. The feared Giants are giving up 21 ppg. None of those figures will put fear into the opponent.

Okay,my point isn't nearly as good now. But, people keep saying we play off of receivers and give them 1st downs. Well, we give up 19.0 first downs per game and the Ravens give up 24.8 (Hint on which column I misread :) ). The Giants give up 19.0 which is the same as us. The 49ers are better in both categories with 16.2 ppg and 17.5 1st downs per game.

I guess what I am trying to say is it's very hard to keep a dominant defense year after year with the rules so much in favor of the offense. It's not a problem we are facing alone.

Slapstick
10-06-2012, 08:56 AM
the Broncos scored 31 points against us, the Jets 10 and the Raiders 34.

that's 75 points divided by 3 which is 25 points a game. how did you come up with 19?

And, really, the defense only gave up 68 points...they couldnt defend Porter's pick 6...

hawaiiansteel
10-06-2012, 02:22 PM
And, really, the defense only gave up 68 points...they couldnt defend Porter's pick 6...

if Crash were still here he could explain to you how that pick 6 was not Ben's fault and actually the fault of Dick LeBeau's 4th quarter defense...;)