Pro Football Focus disagrees with you ****ers, says its not the LB'ers, agrees its DL

[BigRob]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/

Disagrees with you ****ers its the LB. They tell a different tale about them. Even Carter.

Linebackers Strong Against the Run

They may have been without James Harrison but the Steelers still got some very impressive play from their linebackers. None of the four graded negatively for the game, and three of them scored very well against the run. Lamarr Woodley (+1.8), Larry Foote (+2.3) and Lawrence Timmons (+3.3) all showed very well in the run game, and constantly knifed between blockers to make stops in and around the line of scrimmage. The four linebackers combined for 12 defensive stops and just a single missed tackle.


Agrees with you ****ers its the DL:


D-Line Needs Reinforcements


I routinely wonder what some Steelers fans see in Ziggy Hood (-2.4), to the point that I’m actually checking plays more times than I normally would just to make sure I’m not missing some extremely subtle and under-the-radar level of dominance from him. It’s just not there. I was actually shocked in this outing when he made a good play in the run game–and even then he was beaten to the tackle by Timmons. Despite 36 snaps rushing the passer he failed to generate any pressure whatsoever.


I understand that might not be his specialty in this defense (though given his college background it probably should be), but if he’s out there for 36 snaps against the pass he needs to be able to make himself a factor. Otherwise he is just dead weight, because he rarely commands more than one blocker. In the end it was another poor performance from Hood and, as Casey Hampton (-1.3) isn’t getting any younger, Pittsburgh need to find some linemen going forward.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Not just Hood and Hampton, but Kiesel hasn't impressed this season, either...Maybe he oughta shave.

I'd like to see more of Heyward, McLendon, and even Ta'amu...don't think they could do much worse.

[eniparadoxgma]

****ers

If the above means what I think it means is there a reason for it?

[SteelCrazy]

McClendon is backing his man up when he gets to play.need to sit Big Snack more. I think McClendon would command a double team if he had more playing time. I also said during chat that I missed Aaron Smith and wish he didnt retire. He is missed even tho he didnt play a lot his last few years. We need that double team so the LB's can get free.

[BigRob]

If the above means what I think it means is there a reason for it?

Just yinzers why? :D

[eniparadoxgma]

Oh. Carry on then. :)

[Dee Dub]

I dont get this. When we are expecting plays to be made (splash plays), by the 3-4 zone blitz defensive lineman we are not really understanding what the D-line's primary function is. I watched Casey Hampton constantly take on two blocks Sunday versus the Raiders. But I also saw two inside LB's out of position, over-pursuing, and just flat out driven back at the point of attack consistently. But hey...keep expecting more from the 3 up front and I'd guess you'd keep being disappointed.

[BigRob]

I dont get this. When we are expecting plays to be made (splash plays), by the 3-4 zone blitz defensive lineman we are not really understanding what the D-line's primary function is. I watched Casey Hampton constantly take on two blocks Sunday versus the Raiders. But I also saw two inside LB's out of position, over-pursuing, and just flat out driven back at the point of attack consistently. But hey...keep expecting more from the 3 up front and I'd guess you'd keep being disappointed.

So you disagree with PFF? I would say they are usually pretty spot on with their grading and are well respected. They have been universal in their disdain for Ziggy Hood as a 3-4 End and grade him consistently low.

[hawaiiansteel]

the DL has been playing poorly, but it's hard to make a case that the LBers haven't been playing poorly also.

[steelz09]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/

Disagrees with you ****ers its the LB. They tell a different tale about them. Even Carter.

Linebackers Strong Against the Run

They may have been without James Harrison but the Steelers still got some very impressive play from their linebackers. None of the four graded negatively for the game, and three of them scored very well against the run. Lamarr Woodley (+1.8), Larry Foote (+2.3) and Lawrence Timmons (+3.3) all showed very well in the run game, and constantly knifed between blockers to make stops in and around the line of scrimmage. The four linebackers combined for 12 defensive stops and just a single missed tackle.


Agrees with you ****ers its the DL:


D-Line Needs Reinforcements


I routinely wonder what some Steelers fans see in Ziggy Hood (-2.4), to the point that I’m actually checking plays more times than I normally would just to make sure I’m not missing some extremely subtle and under-the-radar level of dominance from him. It’s just not there. I was actually shocked in this outing when he made a good play in the run game–and even then he was beaten to the tackle by Timmons. Despite 36 snaps rushing the passer he failed to generate any pressure whatsoever.


I understand that might not be his specialty in this defense (though given his college background it probably should be), but if he’s out there for 36 snaps against the pass he needs to be able to make himself a factor. Otherwise he is just dead weight, because he rarely commands more than one blocker. In the end it was another poor performance from Hood and, as Casey Hampton (-1.3) isn’t getting any younger, Pittsburgh need to find some linemen going forward.

You can continue to have blinders on, live in a dream world, and let PFT tell you something kind of BS. I prefer to watch every single game and re-watch most games and believe my own eyes.

My own eyes tell me that Foote is a stop gap and that Timmons is being outplayed by the stop gap. My own eyes tell me that... not just from the Oakland game but from watching Timmons throughout his career.

[Dee Dub]

So you disagree with PFF? I would say they are usually pretty spot on with their grading and are well respected. They have been universal in their disdain for Ziggy Hood as a 3-4 End and grade him consistently low.

I believe what I said. The 3-4 zone blitz D-line isnt put into a position to make plays. What should we expect? As long as they are taking on their blocks and freeing up the LB's they are doing their jobs. And when LeBeau continues to drop his LB's into coverage you are asking 3 men to beat at least 5 men in pass rush. Odds are stacked against them in regards to making many splash plays. Do you know how many years it took Aaron Smith to become what he was at his best? More years than what Ziggy Hood has had.

[Slapstick]

You can continue to have blinders on, live in a dream world, and let PFT tell you something kind of BS. I prefer to watch every single game and re-watch most games and believe my own eyes.

My own eyes tell me that Foote is a stop gap and that Timmons is being outplayed by the stop gap. My own eyes tell me that... not just from the Oakland game but from watching Timmons throughout his career.

You can feel free to disagree with PFF (Pro Football Focus), but there is no need to insult their integrity by referring to them as PFT (Pro Football Talk)...;)

[papillon]

I believe what I said. The 3-4 zone blitz D-line isnt put into a position to make plays. What should we expect? As long as they are taking on their blocks and freeing up the LB's they are doing their jobs. And when LeBeau continues to drop his LB's into coverage you are asking 3 men to beat at least 5 men in pass rush. Odds are stacked against them in regards to making many splash plays. Do you know how many years it took Aaron Smith to become what he was at his best? More years than what Ziggy Hood has had.

Aaron Smith averaged 31 tackles and 12 assists over the first ten years of his career (I excluded the last three in which injuries kept him ion the bench more than on the field) and in year 2 he had 4 sacks, 28 tackles and 14 assists. He was productive the moment he was inserted as the starter. The reason everyone believes it took a long time is because it took a long time for the media (Pittsburgh's included) noticed that he was a great player. No one even knew he replaced Orpheus Roye in 2000, because the position isn't glamorous. Fans only started to realize the impact he had when he wasn't in games and opponents had some success running the football.

So, Aaron Smith was productive in his career long before Ziggy is going to be productive. At this point, if we stretch productivity to new limits and consider Hood productive right now it has taken him twice as long as Aaron Smith to be productive, which is about right, because Smith is/was twice the player that Hood is right now.

And, remember, I'm not sure we can call Hood productive right now, he may not be productive until next year.

Pappy

[steelz09]

You can feel free to disagree with PFF (Pro Football Focus), but there is no need to insult their integrity by referring to them as PFT (Pro Football Talk)...;)

damnit. I missed the details :)

[BigRob]

damnit. I missed the details :)

May be you shouldn't trust your lying eyes? Just saying :)

Here's the truth about the Steelers and the run versus the Raiders ala PFF and BTSC:

In fact, according to them, Lawrence Timmons (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/16797/lawrence-timmons), LaMarr Woodley (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/16799/lamarr-woodley), Chris Carter, and Larry Foote (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1596/larry-foote) all played reasonably well, against the run in particular.


They tracked the quintuplets as having 12 stops and having missed only one tackle.



Outside of a Darren McFadden (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34385/darren-mcfadden) 64-yard touchdown run in the first quarter, the Raiders (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/oakland-raiders) only rushed for 55 yards on 20 carries - incidentally, only one more yard than the Steelers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/pittsburgh-steelers) rushed for on the same amount of carries.
The big difference was McFadden's run, obviously, and while that can't be discounted in the grand scheme, the run defense was solid throughout the game.

The Mcfadden run was on the DL as much as the linebackers. Soo, maybe get some contacts?

[Oviedo]

Aaron Smith averaged 31 tackles and 12 assists over the first ten years of his career (I excluded the last three in which injuries kept him ion the bench more than on the field) and in year 2 he had 4 sacks, 28 tackles and 14 assists. He was productive the moment he was inserted as the starter. The reason everyone believes it took a long time is because it took a long time for the media (Pittsburgh's included) noticed that he was a great player. No one even knew he replaced Orpheus Roye in 2000, because the position isn't glamorous. Fans only started to realize the impact he had when he wasn't in games and opponents had some success running the football.

So, Aaron Smith was productive in his career long before Ziggy is going to be productive. At this point, if we stretch productivity to new limits and consider Hood productive right now it has taken him twice as long as Aaron Smith to be productive, which is about right, because Smith is/was twice the player that Hood is right now.

And, remember, I'm not sure we can call Hood productive right now, he may not be productive until next year.

Pappy

Smith also had a very effective Hampton next to him. Hood doesn't have that and it no longer takes two men to control Hampton which means a Guard is free to help the OT with Hood.

[Shoe]

Smith also had a very effective Hampton next to him. Hood doesn't have that and it no longer takes two men to control Hampton which means a Guard is free to help the OT with Hood.

Even still, wouldn't you expect someone with his supposed strength/speed to blow up plays on occasion? Dee Dub made the point about the 3-4 and DL, which we all know. But you still have opportunity to distinguish yourself. You know how you do? By seeing a LB corp who always seems to be around the ball. It shows that you are correctly eating up blockers, for the LBs to flow. Do you see that with our current D?

What you see is holes, sometimes gaping, with maybe one guy running to the hole (i.e. not in position)... that's partly what makes people think our D is "old/slow". If he were exceling at his job, it would be tough to run on us. It was something I prided on watching our D. I haven't had that "pride" in a few years now TBH. (Looking back, it coincided with #91's demise.)

[D Rock]

Timmons came in to the league listed as being 6'1" and 234 lbs. I think those days are long gone. I also think the days of Timmons having the burst to put up 5-7 sacks, let alone do it as a part time player, are also gone.

[steelz09]

My comment about Timmons isn't specific to the Raiders game.

It's an opinion of his run defense throughout his entire career.

Like many here have previous stated, his best year was when he split time w/ Foote. Why do you think that is?

Is it because he had Farrior... a true 3-4 ILB playing next to him. Absolutely, that helped.

Let's not forget one simple fact. Foote played the majority of the time on 1st down. On 1st down, we are typically in our 3-4 base defense. 1st down is typically a "running down". It's not a big coincidence that Foote (the superior run defender) replaced Timmons on running downs in in our base 3-4 defense.

[Captain Crunch]

[/B]The Mcfadden run was on the DL as much as the linebackers. Soo, maybe get some contacts?[/QUOTE]


Also add "Mundane" Mundy to your list on that play...

[phillyesq]

Going back to Aaron Smith and Ziggy Hood, whether Aaron showed up on the stat sheet, you knew he was on the field. You saw him disrupting plays when he was single blocked or holding his ground when double teamed. Ziggy does not win individual matchups and gets absolutely blown up when doubled.

Look at McFadden's shorter TD run. Ziggy got blown back into the endzone. He allows the offense to move the line of scrimage.

[ikestops85]

Going back to Aaron Smith and Ziggy Hood, whether Aaron showed up on the stat sheet, you knew he was on the field. You saw him disrupting plays when he was single blocked or holding his ground when double teamed. Ziggy does not win individual matchups and gets absolutely blown up when doubled.

Look at McFadden's shorter TD run. Ziggy got blown back into the endzone. He allows the offense to move the line of scrimage.

I've been noticing the same thing about Keisel so far this year. I think his level of play has dropped tremendously. I'd almost like to see them start Woods, McClendon and Heyward.

[Slapstick]

I've been noticing the same thing about Keisel so far this year. I think his level of play has dropped tremendously. I'd almost like to see them start Woods, McClendon and Heyward.

For some reason, the gap integrity of the Steelers' D has disintegrated this year, when it used to be what the defense hung their hats upon...

[Captain Lemming]

But you still have opportunity to distinguish yourself. You know how you do? By seeing a LB corp who always seems to be around the ball. It shows that you are correctly eating up blockers, for the LBs to flow. Do you see that with our current D?

What you see is holes, sometimes gaping, with maybe one guy running to the hole (i.e. not in position)... that's partly what makes people think our D is "old/slow". If he were exceling at his job, it would be tough to run on us. It was something I prided on watching our D. I haven't had that "pride" in a few years now TBH. (Looking back, it coincided with #91's demise.)

I tire of the so called "experts" giving undue credit to the dline for the effectiveness of the run D. The best Steeler run defense during Smiths entire time here was a couple of seasons ago when Smith was out injured for 10 games. Hood started three quarters of that season and our run defense was never better.

Why? We had our two best tackling LBers of the decade Farrior and Harrison. Troy was DPOY. Harrison was third in DPOY voting that year. THOSE GUYS ARE GONE. Smith cant turn Mundy into Troy or those two bums into Harrison.

BC rarely WASTED high picks on DEs. Why? Elite linebackers are FAR more important to our D.

Smith, Kimo, Keisel, Roye......none were top three picks.

Let me continue on the credit Smith gets for our LBers play.
Dude is our LEFT DE
Porter and Harrison play right side in the base. Farrior our leading tackler, RIGHT ILB in the base.
Count up probowls by our Lbers, if the DE gets that credit, Kimo and Keisel are FAR BETTER than Smith.
We all know THAT aint true.

Smith in his prime produced his own numbers in excess of our right DEs THAT is why he is better. But he does not "make" our linebackers.
If he did Haggins and Foote would have been dominant when they played behind him

Our run D in 2010 was dominant with Hood starting most of the season. The problem with the run D aint just the DE

The difference aint the DE, the difference is that all pro talent LBER and safety talent (our actual playmakers) has been replaced by scrubs

[Slapstick]

I tire of the so called "experts" giving undue credit to the dline for the effectiveness of the run D. The best Steeler run defense during Smiths entire time here was a couple of seasons ago when Smith was out injured for 10 games. Hood started three quarters of that season and our run defense was never better.

Why? We had our two best tackling LBers of the decade Farrior and Harrison. Troy was DPOY. Harrison was third in DPOY voting that year. THOSE GUYS ARE GONE. Smith cant turn Mundy into Troy or those two bums into Harrison.

BC rarely WASTED high picks on DEs. Why? Elite linebackers are FAR more important to our D.

Smith, Kimo, Keisel, Roye......none were top three picks.

Let me continue on the credit Smith gets for our LBers play.
Dude is our LEFT DE
Porter and Harrison play right side in the base. Farrior our leading tackler, RIGHT ILB in the base.
Count up probowls by our Lbers, if the DE gets that credit, Kimo and Keisel are FAR BETTER than Smith.
We all know THAT aint true.

Smith in his prime produced his own numbers in excess of our right DEs THAT is why he is better. But he does not "make" our linebackers.
If he did Haggins and Foote would have been dominant when they played behind him

Our run D in 2010 was dominant with Hood starting most of the season. The problem with the run D aint just the DE

The difference aint the DE, the difference is that all pro talent LBER and safety talent (our actual playmakers) has been replaced by scrubs

In any case, this is exactly why the players on defense MUST PLAY THE SCHEME AS IT IS CALLED...

People say Lawrence Timmons sucked last year...I counter that, while he didn't make "splash plays", he did his job every time he was out on the field, regardless of which LB position he played...

If the Steelers D simply does what they are supposed to do, they can have similar results this year as last year...#1 in scoring D...

They achieved that last year, even with a lack of sacks and forced TOs...why?

Because they just played the scheme as it was called and didn't freelance or give up gap integrity...that crap leads to big plays...

With the way that Roethlisberger and the Steelers' offense are playing, not giving up big plays on defense will likely be enough...

[steelz09]

In any case, this is exactly why the players on defense MUST PLAY THE SCHEME AS IT IS CALLED...

People say Lawrence Timmons sucked last year...I counter that, while he didn't make "splash plays", he did his job every time he was out on the field, regardless of which LB position he played...

If the Steelers D simply does what they are supposed to do, they can have similar results this year as last year...#1 in scoring D...

They achieved that last year, even with a lack of sacks and forced TOs...why?

Because they just played the scheme as it was called and didn't freelance or give up gap integrity...that crap leads to big plays...

With the way that Roethlisberger and the Steelers' offense are playing, not giving up big plays on defense will likely be enough...

If Timmons was told to be a complete non-factor at OLB and below average at ILB then yup, he did exactly what he was told to do

[steelz09]

I tire of the so called "experts" giving undue credit to the dline for the effectiveness of the run D. The best Steeler run defense during Smiths entire time here was a couple of seasons ago when Smith was out injured for 10 games. Hood started three quarters of that season and our run defense was never better.

Why? We had our two best tackling LBers of the decade Farrior and Harrison. Troy was DPOY. Harrison was third in DPOY voting that year. THOSE GUYS ARE GONE. Smith cant turn Mundy into Troy or those two bums into Harrison.

BC rarely WASTED high picks on DEs. Why? Elite linebackers are FAR more important to our D.

Smith, Kimo, Keisel, Roye......none were top three picks.

Let me continue on the credit Smith gets for our LBers play.
Dude is our LEFT DE
Porter and Harrison play right side in the base. Farrior our leading tackler, RIGHT ILB in the base.
Count up probowls by our Lbers, if the DE gets that credit, Kimo and Keisel are FAR BETTER than Smith.
We all know THAT aint true.

Smith in his prime produced his own numbers in excess of our right DEs THAT is why he is better. But he does not "make" our linebackers.
If he did Haggins and Foote would have been dominant when they played behind him

Our run D in 2010 was dominant with Hood starting most of the season. The problem with the run D aint just the DE

The difference aint the DE, the difference is that all pro talent LBER and safety talent (our actual playmakers) has been replaced by scrubs

We used to be able to develop mid-to-late round picks into very solid starting DE. Now, we can't even develop a 1st round pick into a starter. Pathetic.

In his prime years, Foote was a backup for us. A solid backup. Now, he's older and slower (although never a speed demon) and our starter?!?! Pathetic. Outside of our bust 1st round pick, how has this team not developed ANYONE at ILB? Same could be said for S.

[Slapstick]

If Timmons was told to be a complete non-factor at OLB and below average at ILB then yup, he did exactly what he was told to do

If you say so...but, he wasn't f___ing the pooch and failing to maintain his gap integrity...

[Slapstick]

We used to be able to develop mid-to-late round picks into very solid starting DE. Now, we can't even develop a 1st round pick into a starter. Pathetic.

In his prime years, Foote was a backup for us. A solid backup. Now, he's older and slower (although never a speed demon) and our starter?!?! Pathetic. Outside of our bust 1st round pick, how has this team not developed ANYONE at ILB? Same could be said for S.

Foote was a starter in his prime years...he kept Kendrell Bell on the bench and then off the team...

[steelz09]

Foote was a starter in his prime years...he kept Kendrell Bell on the bench and then off the team...

I thought it was Bells injury problems that kept him off the field. Didn't Bell start as a rookie?

[Slapstick]

I thought it was Bells injury problems that kept him off the field. Didn't Bell start as a rookie?

Bell was a phenomenal talent, but a chronic freelancer...

When he was well enough to play, the Steelers ended up sticking with Foote because he did what he was supposed to do...they didn't have the dynamic pass rush, but neither did they have a player who was out of position...

[steelz09]

Bell was a phenomenal talent, but a chronic freelancer...

When he was well enough to play, the Steelers ended up sticking with Foote because he did what he was supposed to do...they didn't have the dynamic pass rush, but neither did they have a player who was out of position...

Below is from Wikipedia. I needed to refresh my memory on this one. It sounds like when Bell was healthy, he played and started essentially making Foote the backup... not the other way around.

Bell started in all 16 games for the Steelers during his 2001 rookie campaign. He was an excellent fit for the Steelers defense, most likely because of his blitzing abilities. The Steelers finished the regular season with a 13-3 record, earning them the top seed in the AFC. Bell was voted the AP NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year. The Steelers defeated their division rival, the Baltimore Ravens, 27-10 in the AFC Divisional round at Heinz Field. The following week they went on to face the second seeded New England Patriots. Bell recorded 8 tackles, a sack, and 2 passes defended. Despite his stellar performance, and a late 4th quarter comeback, the Steelers wound up losing the game 24-17. In 2002, Bell was injured in week 1 of the AFC Championship Game rematch versus New England. He missed the next 4 games, but returned in week 7 to face the Indianapolis Colts on Monday Night. He finished the season with 50 tackles, (33 less from his rookie year), and 4 sacks. The Steelers finished with a 10-5-1 record, and went on to face the Cleveland Browns. In an epic 36-33 comeback win over the Browns, Bell recorded 9 tackles but injured his knee in the final quarter and was listed as doubtful for the following week at Tennessee. Although hurt, Bell started the game against the second seeded Titans. He recorded only 2 tackles before leaving the game once again with an injury. The Steelers lost 34-31. In 2003, Bell amassed 99 tackles and 5 sacks despite the Steelers poor 6-10 finish. In 2004, Bell injured his knee yet again, and would not see the field until week 9. He played 3 games for the Steelers before he re-injured his knee in week 11 versus Cincinnati. In the 2005 off-season, the Steelers, (who went 15-1 in the regular season without Bell), released him from the team. He then signed with the Kansas City Chiefs, where he played 3 mediocre seasons. Injuries prevented him from having the same impact he did in Pittsburgh. He was forced to retire in late 2007, due to another series of injuries.

[Slapstick]

Pete Prisco had this to say back in 2005:


Pittsburgh Steelers
Underrated: Larry Foote, linebacker

Foote played so well last season for the injured Kendrell Bell that he kept Bell on the bench when he returned. With Bell gone to Kansas City, Foote is now the entrenched as a starting inside linebacker.

Now, perhaps he's not as reputable as Wikipedia...;-)

[steelz09]

Pete Prisco had this to say back in 2005:



Now, perhaps he's not as reputable as Wikipedia...;-)

No... he's probably not as reputable.

In 2001, 2002 and 2003 Bell started the games he was healthy. In 2004, he started for 3 games and was injured the rest of the year.

I'm not trying to knock Foote. He's been a reliable player for us. I'm just saying that Foote has never really had a full time starting role with the Steelers except this year.

Last year, Foote rotated with Farrior
Previously, he rotated with Timmons (i.e. Timmons' best year)

[phillyesq]

No... he's probably not as reputable.

In 2001, 2002 and 2003 Bell started the games he was healthy. In 2004, he started for 3 games and was injured the rest of the year.

I'm not trying to knock Foote. He's been a reliable player for us. I'm just saying that Foote has never really had a full time starting role with the Steelers except this year.

Last year, Foote rotated with Farrior
Previously, he rotated with Timmons (i.e. Timmons' best year)


He was the starter in 2005 and played without really rotating until Timmons was drafted.

[BigRob]

No... he's probably not as reputable.

In 2001, 2002 and 2003 Bell started the games he was healthy. In 2004, he started for 3 games and was injured the rest of the year.

I'm not trying to knock Foote. He's been a reliable player for us. I'm just saying that Foote has never really had a full time starting role with the Steelers except this year.

Last year, Foote rotated with Farrior
Previously, he rotated with Timmons (i.e. Timmons' best year)


Have you completely blanked out 2005-2007?

[steelz09]

Have you completely blanked out 2005-2007?

Yes, I did. Bell wasn't on the team in those years.

My bad, I missed the years after Bell was let go. Basically, Foote started those years. Then, he was eventually placed Timmons and sent to Detriot.

Now, he's brought back as a starter because of Farrior's departure.

So, let me get this straight.

1) Foote was a backup to Bell
2) Foote started during the 2005-2007 years as a stop gap.
3) Once the stop gap was filled (or lack thereof) by Timmons, he became a backup again
4) He was let go by the Steelers
5) He was brought back by the Steelers as a backup.
6) He's now a starting stop gap (again) because the Steelers haven't developed a ILB since .... well, Foote and Bell.

Nice impressive ILB development by the Steelers.

[BigRob]

Yes, I did. Bell wasn't on the team in those years.

My bad, I missed the years after Bell was let go. Basically, Foote started those years. Then, he was eventually placed Timmons and sent to Detriot.

Now, he's brought back as a starter because of Farrior's departure.

So, let me get this straight.

1) Foote was a backup to Bell
2) Foote started during the 2005-2007 years as a stop gap.
3) Once the stop gap was filled (or lack thereof) by Timmons, he became a backup again
4) He was let go by the Steelers
5) He was brought back by the Steelers as a backup.
6) He's now a starting stop gap (again) because the Steelers haven't developed a ILB since .... well, Foote and Bell.

Nice impressive ILB development by the Steelers.

One thing I would agree with you on is that Foote is not a superstar, but he has been severely underrated by Steelers nation. He was ( not as much now) a heck of a run stuffer for many years.

He does need replaced going into the future however, and I would agree there is not a replacement for him on the roster.

[Oviedo]

Larry Foote = Sean Lee = Paul Pozluszny = Blue collar, lunch-pail ILBs. Nothing special just solid.

[phillyesq]

Larry Foote = Sean Lee = Paul Pozluszny = Blue collar, lunch-pail ILBs. Nothing special just solid.

Every time I've seen Lee, he looks really good. He has coverage ability and plays the run very well, too.

Larry Foote has not been the problem this year, but I think Sean Lee would be a big improvement on this D (and also over Jason Worilds, not to get back into that debate again).

I have not seen Poz as much, but he seems like more of a traditional run stuffing type ILB. I think Lee is in a different class from Foote (who I like) and Poz.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I don't understand the Larry Foote is only a backup talk. Dude starting all 16 games for us for 5 straight seasons from 2004 through 2008, then started the first 14 games for the Lions in 2009 before missing the final 2 games that year due to injury. Dude started 94 STRAIGHT NFL GAMES in 6 seasons from 9/12/04 to 12/20/09. What am I missing?

[ikestops85]

I don't understand the Larry Foote is only a backup talk. Dude starting all 16 games for us for 5 straight seasons from 2004 through 2008, then started the first 14 games for the Lions in 2009 before missing the final 2 games that year due to injury. Dude started 94 STRAIGHT NFL GAMES in 6 seasons from 9/12/04 to 12/20/09. What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that Foote is not a superstar. Steeler fans expect 12 superstars to take the field on both offense and defense. If you are not a superstar then you obviously are not worthy to step on the field wearing the black and gold of the Pittsburgh Steelers. :roll:

[hawaiiansteel]

Larry Foote has played better so far than our $50 million LB Lawrence Timmons has...

[ikestops85]

Larry Foote has played better so far than our $50 million LB Lawrence Timmons has...

I'll agree with that.

[phillyesq]

I'll agree with that.

Yup, sad but true.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

timmons has been a major disappointment.

again.

[steelz09]

Very true... Timmons has been outplayed by Foote.

By the way, Sean Lee had more tackles last night than Timmons has had all season. 14 tackles in 1 game compared to 12 tackles in 3 games.

[steelz09]

I don't understand the Larry Foote is only a backup talk. Dude starting all 16 games for us for 5 straight seasons from 2004 through 2008, then started the first 14 games for the Lions in 2009 before missing the final 2 games that year due to injury. Dude started 94 STRAIGHT NFL GAMES in 6 seasons from 9/12/04 to 12/20/09. What am I missing?

If he was so stellar why did we let him go in the 1st place? Why did the Lions let him go without resigning him?

[Slapstick]

Very true... Timmons has been outplayed by Foote.

By the way, Sean Lee had more tackles last night than Timmons has had all season. 14 tackles in 1 game compared to 12 tackles in 3 games.

Well, when your QB throws 5 INTs in a game, the defense tends to see the field more...

[steelz09]

Well, when your QB throws 5 INTs in a game, the defense tends to see the field more...

Keep making excuses for the 1st round bust.

[Slapstick]

Keep making excuses for the 1st round bust.

You're right...every Steeler should be having 14 tackle games on a regular basis...:D

[hawaiiansteel]

By the way, Sean Lee had more tackles last night than Timmons has had all season. 14 tackles in 1 game compared to 12 tackles in 3 games.

why would we want a guy like Sean Lee when we have Jason Worilds! :tt2

[steelz09]

why would we want a guy like Sean Lee when we have Jason Worilds! :tt2

Very true. I just hope nobody sneezes on him. I'd hate to see him on the IR.

[RuthlessBurgher]

If he was so stellar why did we let him go in the 1st place? Why did the Lions let him go without resigning him?

I never said he was stellar. I was just pointing out that he starting all 16 games for us for 5 years in a row (and therefore not a backup for us during his prime years, as you stated).

[steelz09]

I never said he was stellar. I was just pointing out that he starting all 16 games for us for 5 years in a row (and therefore not a backup for us during his prime years, as you stated).

As I stated, I stand corrected..... I meant that he was a backup when Bell was on the team and healthy..

[RuthlessBurgher]

As I stated, I stand corrected..... I meant that he was a backup when Bell was on the team and healthy..

Well, yeah...Bell was a 2nd round pick who started all 16 games as rookie while Larry Foote was still at Michigan, so everyone would expect that an NFL defensive rookie of the year who packed a punch would keep his job over a scrawny 4th round pick.

It's not surprising at all that a mid-round selection on defense wasn't a full time starter during his first 2 years in the league (Foote started 3 out of his first 30 games during his first 2 pro seasons, but then he was an established starter for the next 5 years).

Ike Taylor, who was also a 4th round pick the year after we drafted Foote, followed a similar path early on in his Steeler career (Ike started 2 out of his first 29 games during his first 2 pro seasons, but then became an established starter from that point on...except for the 5 game demotion into Cowher's doghouse in 2006, of course).

[Ghost]

You are missing the fact that Foote is not a superstar. Steeler fans expect 12 superstars to take the field on both offense and defense. If you are not a superstar then you obviously are not worthy to step on the field wearing the black and gold of the Pittsburgh Steelers. :roll:

Wouldn't they incur quite a bit of too many men on the field penalties under your scenario....

[hawaiiansteel]

Wouldn't they incur quite a bit of too many men on the field penalties under your scenario....

good point! :Cheers