All this griping about the D....but....

[lloydroid]

.....if Brown doesn't fumble, we win this game.

Why isn't anyone bringing that up? First he fumbles going across the goal line and was beyond lucky to get the ball back himself, but THEN he fumbles AGAIN to stop a drive that looked destined to be a TD drive.

I was so p-ssed at him when he fumbled it again. We have a W without him carelessly putting the ball on the ground, mother f----r.

[SDSteel1]

And if Dwyer doesn't fumble we probably win this game as well. Just sayin...

Everyone is to blame.

[lloydroid]

And if Dwyer doesn't fumble we probably win this game as well. Just sayin...

Everyone is to blame.

But fumbling late, when the game is in the balance, makes it worse, in my opinion. Especially after just fumbling it in the end zone, WTF Brown? You still weren't focused enough on ball security after that? P-sses me off.

[steelfin]

It is a team game....It is about making plays when it counts....they did not do that yesterday.

If the special teams does not give away field position with a muffed punt and terrible coverage, then perhaps the Raiders dont drive and score...

If the offense doesnt commit all those penalties or give away the football then we probably continue our drives and put the game out of reach. The offense had a chance at the end of the game to make some plays and put the game away...they did not. We ended up punting and Raiders drove for a game winning FG.

If the defense could stop anything in the second half, we would have won that game...but they did not. They could not stop the run, cover any receivers or put pressure on the QB.

But if we have to place blame...this one goes to the defense....and BTW I have been a huge DL supporter and still am. However the defense is bad right now....really bad. However, two of their best defenders (and probably 2 of the best in the league) were not on the field.

It isnt pretty but I am going to remain hopeful. It is still early in the season. The offense is looking like it has the potential to be the best it has been in many years. Lets just hope the defense can get it together.

[steelfin]

But fumbling late, when the game is in the balance, makes it worse, in my opinion. Especially after just fumbling it in the end zone, WTF Brown? You still weren't focused enough on ball security after that? P-sses me off.

Dwyers fumble is equally as bad as ABs...The Dwyer fumble was on our 30 yard line and resulted in 7 points for the Raiders. I think Dwyer becomes the odd man out once RM is back...

[skyhawk]

The Steelers flat out gave the game away with those turnovers. The D was given short fields after those 2 turnovers. They already can't make stops in the 4th Q (this has been going on for 4 years now), and when they turn the ball over it's even harder to make a stop.

[Oviedo]

Scoring 31 points is typically more than enough for any decent defense to step up. The Raiders defense got the strips. What about our defense?

Plus let's not make it sound like the Raiders got the ball on the turnovers in the red zone and had 1st and Goal. After the turnovers they put sustained drives together and our defense did nothing.

[SidSmythe]

I am worried about this defense ... We went for it on 4th down in FG range b/c everyone knew our defense was going to let Palmer march downfield, run out the clock and kick the game winner. IF this was a typical Steeler Defense, we punt and have our Defense hold.

With Troy out of the lineup, we just lack playmakers. He's the only real threat on DEF to make a turnover.

[DukieBoy]

Both fumbles were 7-point turnarounds. We lost by 3. The math is clear. And there is enough culpability to occupy several juries.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

dwyers fumble was worse, IMO.

[lloydroid]

Dwyers fumble is equally as bad as ABs...The Dwyer fumble was on our 30 yard line and resulted in 7 points for the Raiders. I think Dwyer becomes the odd man out once RM is back...

I think JD is done as a potential contributing Steeler. They were running BB and IR but no JD as the game went on. I believe his potential to become a significant contributor as a Steeler, and maybe as an NFL player, has come and gone. So much for me predicting he was going to end up a bigger producer than RM. He had the opportunity and it just didn't happen. (The porous OL didn't help, though.)

[lloydroid]

Both fumbles were 7-point turnarounds. We lost by 3. The math is clear. And there is enough culpability to occupy several juries.



Ahhhh, the whole thing is a sh-t sandwich that they can all take a bite out of, including Dick L, Colon, AB, JD, the D, Tomlin, all of them. The only one who seems to have done far more good than bad is Ben. Maybe MW.

[lloydroid]

The Steelers flat out gave the game away with those turnovers. The D was given short fields after those 2 turnovers. They already can't make stops in the 4th Q (this has been going on for 4 years now), and when they turn the ball over it's even harder to make a stop.

Yes know what, I think this subject deserves its own thread. Why is it that this D can't stop teams in the 4th Q.? I have my theory.

[Slapstick]

Yes know what, I think this subject deserves its own thread. Why is it that this D can't stop teams in the 4th Q.? I have my theory.

This D is too dependent upon having all of the pieces in place...no Troy and no James Harrison leaves the D shorthanded...

[steelz09]

.....if Brown doesn't fumble, we win this game.

Why isn't anyone bringing that up? First he fumbles going across the goal line and was beyond lucky to get the ball back himself, but THEN he fumbles AGAIN to stop a drive that looked destined to be a TD drive.

I was so p-ssed at him when he fumbled it again. We have a W without him carelessly putting the ball on the ground, mother f----r.

That may be true... but I'm more inclined to blame a 'unit' (i.e. our defense) that is flat out weak. They should be flat out embarrassed the way they have been playing this year.

[NJ-STEELER]

Browns was worse he already picked up the 1st down and with raiders swarming around him he didn't secure the ball trying to get an extra 2/3 yards

SituTional football. You don't leave the ball out like that around multiple defensive players when holding a lead

Stupid stupid play on his part

[papillon]

Okay, so the offense turned the ball over two times and that really isn't acceptable, however, turnovers happen nearly every game. The problem is that if you watched the game the defense would make two bad plays per drive, not over an entire game. Brown needs to secure the ball better, but the defense needs to stop getting pushed around like rag dolls. I don't know if its technique, strength or failure to gel as a unit or all three, but one thing is for sure, giving up 34 points a game is a recipe for a disastrous season.

Pappy

[Oviedo]

This D is too dependent upon having all of the pieces in place...no Troy and no James Harrison leaves the D shorthanded...

Then that is a poorly designed defense that lacks the flexibility to adjust to what are not impossibile possibilities.

[feltdizz]

I think JD is done as a potential contributing Steeler. They were running BB and IR but no JD as the game went on. I believe his potential to become a significant contributor as a Steeler, and maybe as an NFL player, has come and gone. So much for me predicting he was going to end up a bigger producer than RM. He had the opportunity and it just didn't happen. (The porous OL didn't help, though.)

Dwyer had a lot to prove and IMO he has too many WTF moments in his short career. Everyone fumbles but I think his nagging injuries when barely getting hit, the weight issues, waving for a sub anytime he runs more than 3 yards, etc are making it hard for the coaches to trust him.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Fumbles played their part...No doubt. However, there are three areas I am concerned with regardless. Two of them are on defense.

#1...Pass rush. I also am not drinking the "wait until Harrison returns" KoolAid either. He will be the glue for 2012 but he is done after this year here. I should have seen something by now out of Worilds & Carter to satisfy the future of that position. It is time to send a message to them an de-activate one of their A$$es and put Arian Robinson on the field on passing downs. I am not writing anyone off...But as a coach the message needs to be sent. I'm taking the "hat" away from one of them to give to Robinson. If Robinson starts putting pressure on the QB or gets sacks...Message sent. I am not concerned about the DBs on the roster...I am ready to move on from scheme (DL). I have watched the evolution of this game and it is clear. You need to pressure the QB and force his hand to make a turnover....Not limiting yardage between the 20s. You put the burden on the CBs and go get the passer. BUT THAT WON'T WORK WITHOUT A PASS RUSH. That is where the Steelers are right now. Bump & Blitz makes a QB be Decisive & Accurate. It is a QBs game so put all of the pressure on the QB to be accurate, decisive, and be on the same page as his WRs. The ball is not coming out fast enough and the longer the QB has the ball & no pass rush...WRs will start to come open.

#2....The run defense. Hampton & Foote are done here. Keisel has shown real signs of decline this year. I hope Sly has made huge strides and can take Foote's spot at some point this year when 100% healthy. I'm even saying try Johnson. That Spence injury really hurts. Spence's play and lack of Foote's may have pushed the Steelers into trying some type of combination of Timmons & Spence. We are hurting at Buck. Any team can come out and establish some type of run game and kill this defense off of PA. Foote couldn't cover the Big Ragu on a drag off of PA. One false step by him or someone gets their hands on him & he is out of the play. He really labors at change of direction and stop & start. I'm beginning to think "someone" over values loyalty, leadership, and knowledge of a defense instead of just flat out playing. The Steelers just don't have any option right now but lets hope some "options" arise.

#3 Run game. Now, I am not one to fold up the tents just yet. But they have alot of work to do. Not having a break away back in the backfield does have something to do with it. So I will give it some time. I know many aren't high on Mendy but the one thing he did do was dictate the discipline of a DE or OLB on the edge and opened up things inside. Mr. "Counter 34 Pike" success hinges on Mendy's ability to get around the corner. It doesn't sound like much to some in here but Redman in the backfield versus Mendy may be the difference between an OLB/DE lining up head up TE or outside shade to 8 Gap on the edge of the OL. A TE can easily dig a OLB/DE outside shade or Gap 8 on the counter. Head up...The OLB/DE reads and squeezes it down and closes the hole. Colon/Foster have no lane to turn up into and can't get to LB and play blown up in backfield. Having a TE like Miller and his blocking abilities really increases the success of the running game when you have a RB who can threaten the corner. It doesn't make Mendy "all that better" than Dwyer & Redman....It just makes the running game better in general if you could follow.

[Slapstick]

Then that is a poorly designed defense that lacks the flexibility to adjust to what are not impossibile possibilities.

That is correct...the defense needs to be schemed to fit what the younger players can do...

[Oviedo]

That is correct...the defense needs to be schemed to fit what the younger players can do...

That is my primary reason for my multi-year advocation of the 4-3. Players can come out of college and play the positions they have played all their lives versus moving DT to DE, DE to OLB and OLB to ILB, etc. IMO it is just a more efficient approach.

I don't know if we ever go to the 4-3 but I do know we are taking too much time to assess whether our young DL and LB can project successfully into their roles in our version of the 3-4.

The result is a potential tallent gap that we may be seeing come to the fore when players like Troy and Harrison can't do it anymore.

[hawaiiansteel]

Steelers D wilts without Polamalu

Pittsburgh needs to get injured star safety back on the field

Updated: September 25, 2012
By Vince Verhei | Football Outsiders

Despite four touchdowns from Ben Roethlisberger and a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter, the Pittsburgh Steelers fell to the Oakland Raiders 34-31 on Sunday. Steelers coach Mike Tomlin looked on helplessly as his defense allowed the Raiders to score three touchdowns and two field goals on their final five drives.

It was so bad that Tomlin ordered his offense to go for it on fourth-and-1 with less than four minutes to go in a tie game at his own 29-yard line. Failure would have handed the ball to Oakland in field goal range, but Tomlin apparently felt that if he punted, he couldn't trust his defense to get a stop. The Steelers picked up the first down, but the drive later stalled and Pittsburgh punted on fourth-and-9.

Oakland promptly drove 49 yards for the winning field goal as time expired, proving that Tomlin's lack of faith in his defense was justified. While the loss was obviously disappointing for Tomlin and the Steelers, it shouldn't have been terribly surprising, because Troy Polamalu was in street clothes. When Polamalu is on the field, the Steelers play defense as well as any team in football. Without him, they suddenly become very vulnerable.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8423281/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-defense-wilts-troy-polamalu

[Oviedo]

Steelers D wilts without Polamalu

Pittsburgh needs to get injured star safety back on the field

Updated: September 25, 2012
By Vince Verhei | Football Outsiders

Despite four touchdowns from Ben Roethlisberger and a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter, the Pittsburgh Steelers fell to the Oakland Raiders 34-31 on Sunday. Steelers coach Mike Tomlin looked on helplessly as his defense allowed the Raiders to score three touchdowns and two field goals on their final five drives.

It was so bad that Tomlin ordered his offense to go for it on fourth-and-1 with less than four minutes to go in a tie game at his own 29-yard line. Failure would have handed the ball to Oakland in field goal range, but Tomlin apparently felt that if he punted, he couldn't trust his defense to get a stop. The Steelers picked up the first down, but the drive later stalled and Pittsburgh punted on fourth-and-9.

Oakland promptly drove 49 yards for the winning field goal as time expired, proving that Tomlin's lack of faith in his defense was justified. While the loss was obviously disappointing for Tomlin and the Steelers, it shouldn't have been terribly surprising, because Troy Polamalu was in street clothes. When Polamalu is on the field, the Steelers play defense as well as any team in football. Without him, they suddenly become very vulnerable.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8423281/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-defense-wilts-troy-polamalu

Highlights a real problem when 10 other men can't succeed without the 11th man being on the field. Not a sustainable model for success.

[phillyesq]

Highlights a real problem when 10 other men can't succeed without the 11th man being on the field. Not a sustainable model for success.

How do you think the offense would look without Ben and Wallace (or Brown, your pick)?

[Oviedo]

How do you think the offense would look without Ben and Wallace (or Brown, your pick)?

We were 3-1 without Ben a few years ago and we will find out what we are without Wallace after this season.

The point I'm making is its not like we had Harrsion for 16 games last year or that we can ever count on Troy for 16 games. The issues are what adjustments are being made. IMO, the answer is none. Just run out the same old template with OLBs blitzing a few times a game but not much else. In the Jets game we saw the first real aggressive defense we saw in quite awhile and we were successful. That wasn't an accident.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

It's always the offenses fault.....

I mean they put 31 points up....how can we expect our D to play better than the Raiders awesome vaunted defense.....or that crazy offense they have otu there....

[Slapstick]

That is my primary reason for my multi-year advocation of the 4-3. Players can come out of college and play the positions they have played all their lives versus moving DT to DE, DE to OLB and OLB to ILB, etc. IMO it is just a more efficient approach.

I don't know if we ever go to the 4-3 but I do know we are taking too much time to assess whether our young DL and LB can project successfully into their roles in our version of the 3-4.
s'
The result is a potential tallent gap that we may be seeing come to the fore when players like Troy and Harrison can't do it anymore.

The 4-3 isn't necessary...it's a possibility that never should be ruled out, but the schemes within LeBeau's 3-4 take advantage of Harrison's and Polamalu's unique skill set...

Other players have a different skill set...scheme to accentuate those...

The problem is, that may require a sea change in philosophy which is not doable over a bye week...

[feltdizz]

The 4-3 isn't necessary...it's a possibility that never should be ruled out, but the schemes within LeBeau's 3-4 take advantage of Harrison's and Polamalu's unique skill set...

Other players have a different skill set...scheme to accentuate those...

The problem is, that may require a sea change in philosophy which is not doable over a bye week...

IMO we shouldn't need a sea change with Troy and JH out... it's not like Troy is durable and plays 16 games every year and had a freak accident. We should have a D that doesn't dip dramatically when we lose Troy.

[Slapstick]

IMO we shouldn't need a sea change with Troy and JH out... it's not like Troy is durable and plays 16 games every year and had a freak accident. We should have a D that doesn't dip dramatically when we lose Troy.

Then Troy should stop being so awesome...

Seriously, if a defense loses one player who was DPOY, it's devastating...

Losing two? Forget it...

[lloydroid]

Dwyer had a lot to prove and IMO he has too many WTF moments in his short career. Everyone fumbles but I think his nagging injuries when barely getting hit, the weight issues, waving for a sub anytime he runs more than 3 yards, etc are making it hard for the coaches to trust him.

And he was a workhorse in college. Oh well. Can't fix an inferior brain, in terms of just being lazy and soft.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Steelers D wilts without Polamalu

Pittsburgh needs to get injured star safety back on the field

Updated: September 25, 2012
By Vince Verhei | Football Outsiders

Despite four touchdowns from Ben Roethlisberger and a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter, the Pittsburgh Steelers fell to the Oakland Raiders 34-31 on Sunday. Steelers coach Mike Tomlin looked on helplessly as his defense allowed the Raiders to score three touchdowns and two field goals on their final five drives.

It was so bad that Tomlin ordered his offense to go for it on fourth-and-1 with less than four minutes to go in a tie game at his own 29-yard line. Failure would have handed the ball to Oakland in field goal range, but Tomlin apparently felt that if he punted, he couldn't trust his defense to get a stop. The Steelers picked up the first down, but the drive later stalled and Pittsburgh punted on fourth-and-9.

Oakland promptly drove 49 yards for the winning field goal as time expired, proving that Tomlin's lack of faith in his defense was justified. While the loss was obviously disappointing for Tomlin and the Steelers, it shouldn't have been terribly surprising, because Troy Polamalu was in street clothes. When Polamalu is on the field, the Steelers play defense as well as any team in football. Without him, they suddenly become very vulnerable.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8423281/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-defense-wilts-troy-polamalu


Wasn't Troy on the field vs. the Broncos? Steelers' D didn't look so good in that one, either...Sorry, but I don't think it's true any longer that that just getting Troy back will be the magic elixir that turns this defense around.

#1, we need a D-coordinator who can actually make the necessary adjustments based on what the other team is doing.

#2, team loyalty is nice, but we need to get some low-production players off the field. Sure, some of their replacements are unproven, but in some cases, it's hard to see how they could perform any worse than the guy that's been playing.

#3, we need to send the message that, just because you got a big contract, doesn't mean your job is safe. Woodley, Timmons, Hampton, Ike, and yes, even Troy and Harrison, all underperforming relative to the big $$$ they're getting paid. Cut one of 'em and send a message. I'd start with Hampton.

[stopplayn]

Steeler fans have been openly critical of Wallace and have repeatedly stated that AB is better. They are hush hush on the AB fumble because it hurts their agenda. The Defense has a few bad outing and all hell breaks loose. How long has our D carried our inconsistent offense? How many 13-10 games has our D pulled out? Stop

[stopplayn]

Wasn't Troy on the field vs. the Broncos? Steelers' D didn't look so good in that one, either...Sorry, but I don't think it's true any longer that that just getting Troy back will be the magic elixir that turns this defense around.

#1, we need a D-coordinator who can actually make the necessary adjustments based on what the other team is doing.

#2, team loyalty is nice, but we need to get some low-production players off the field. Sure, some of their replacements are unproven, but in some cases, it's hard to see how they could perform any worse than the guy that's been playing.

#3, we need to send the message that, just because you got a big contract, doesn't mean your job is safe. Woodley, Timmons, Hampton, Ike, and yes, even Troy and Harrison, all underperforming relative to the big $$$ they're getting paid. Cut one of 'em and send a message. I'd start with Hampton.

Troy and the D put us in position to win the game. Did you forget about the pick6? Is that on the D? You mentioned guys not playing up to their contracts so how come you didnt mention the qb? Didnt Ben throw for 32 Td in 07? He got rewarded with a 100 million dollar contract as a result. How many times has he thrown for 30 since? NONE. 20 and 17 TD passes???? I think we can get that from Leftwich. If you're going to call out the D, then to be fair, you must call out the inconsistent offense too. Our offense is inconsistent and has been for over 10 years

[Slapstick]

Steeler fans have been openly critical of Wallace and have repeatedly stated that AB is better. They are hush hush on the AB fumble because it hurts their agenda. The Defense has a few bad outing and all hell breaks loose. How long has our D carried our inconsistent offense? How many 13-10 games has our D pulled out? Stop

Nobody is hush-hush on AB's fumble...it was a bone headed play that cost the team dearly...