Wonder How Defensive Players Feel?

[flippy]

I would be a little embarrassed if my coach decided to go for it on 4th and 1 so deep in my own team's territory.

Tomlin did the right thing to try and win the game. But it seems to me like one of those win the battle, lose the war type of deals. That seems like the type of move that could suck the confidence out of a unit rather than empower them.

Most accomplishments start with a belief. And Mike Tomlin showed 0 faith. Will that have long term ramifications?

Or on the flip side will guys be motivated by anger? or fear? or something else?

Just curious on your read. I think it will mess with the psyche of a lot of players.

[Jooser]

If they aren't embarrassed by letting the Raiders hang 34 on them, then perhaps Tomlin's decision may nudge them a little closer to feeling that way.

[Oviedo]

If they aren't embarrassed by letting the Raiders hang 34 on them, then perhaps Tomlin's decision may nudge them a little closer to feeling that way.


Screw the nudging just tell them to man up because they sucked against an 0-2 team.

[Ghost]

I think that's when guys like Keisel and Hampton as guys who played in the loss and Troy and Harrison as the best players on the D need to step up, show leadership and assist the younger guys from not letting it get to their heads. Take this terrible performance and use it to turn into some sort of motivation. And they needed to see Tomlin do what he did. They deserved it for their play - they stunk. Lets see what they do with it. Anyone who shuts down should be shown the door.

[RuthlessBurgher]

How do the defensive players feel? I don't need them to feel anything. Don't want touchy-feely defenders. Want soulless, unfeeling assassins back there. Want them to come out of the bye wanting to inflict pain on Mike Vick and company. The Iggles seem to want to give the ball away over and over again this season, so our defense should "feel" like the ball is theirs for the taking.

[papillon]

Going for it on 4th down when the defense is playing poorly is not different than punting on 4th and 4, because the offense hasn't performed well during a game. It was a decision to try and win the game based on what was happening on the field. If the defensive players don't like it, then they need to do something about it, Tomlin made the right decision by putting the ball in the hands of the best player on the field.

Pappy

[flippy]

I feel the same as most of you. They should be embarrassed already by the performance.

To RB's point of wanting soulless assassins, I agree. And that got me thinking about something. Has Tomlin possibly pushed the team a little too far toward drafting character vs finding guys who are just plain nasty.

We have a bunch of nice guys and James Harrison. Did we go a little overboard in weighting character in some of our recent drafts?

And I'm not knocking anyone's desire. Heck Ryan Clark would probably give his life to make the next big hit. But he's a nice guy. Troy's nice. Keisel's nice.

Maybe this defense lost its soul when Farrior's career ended. He had some nasty in him. And from what I could tell, he had an infectious personality that made everyone else a little nasty whether they want to be or not.

But now is anyone other than James a bad bad man? I'm not sure.

[Oviedo]

Here is perhaps the MORE IMPORTANT question:

How does LeBeau feel and what will HE do about it?????????????

[flippy]

Here is perhaps the MORE IMPORTANT question:

How does LeBeau feel and what will HE do about it?????????????

Is it possible Lebeau is doing the best he can with the players he has?

Maybe Lebeau would call the game differently if he had Ngata and Suh on the Dline?

Maybe he'd do some things differently if Revis and Peterson were his corners?

etc.

Is it possible Lebeau's been making Chicken Salad out of Chicken Sh!t for a long time? And have we really just been lucky to have 1-2 great players that were so good, they make it work with the filler around them.

[Oviedo]

Is it possible Lebeau is doing the best he can with the players he has?

Maybe Lebeau would call the game differently if he had Ngata and Suh on the Dline?

Maybe he'd do some things differently if Revis and Peterson were his corners?

etc.

Is it possible Lebeau's been making Chicken Salad out of Chicken Sh!t for a long time? And have we really just been lucky to have 1-2 great players that were so good, they make it work with the filler around them.

I'm not prepared to let the coach off the hook that easily. We have good players. These are the same players who manned their positions when everyone was touting where we were ranked as a defense the past few years. The difference is what they are being asked to do. My thoughts:

1. Clearly we are less agressive than two year ago. That has to change.
2. Why is Hampton starting and not McLendon. Hampton has been worthless...get the more athletic player out on the field.

[papillon]

I'm not prepared to let the coach off the hook that easily. We have good players. These are the same players who manned their positions when everyone was touting where we were ranked as a defense the past few years. The difference is what they are being asked to do. My thoughts:

1. Clearly we are less agressive than two year ago. That has to change.
2. Why is Hampton starting and not McLendon. Hampton has been worthless...get the more athletic player out on the field.

What makes you think we have good players, just curious? From what I have seen the Steelers have players that are less than good. Timmons has been a non-factor, Hood gets pushed wherever the offensive lineman wants to push him, Heyward is still young and may be okay, Worilds and Carter are not NFL caliber starting OLBs in a 34 defense, Mundy has heart and I love him, but he's below the line, Lewis and/or Allen haven't stepped up and made plays.

Personally, I don't think there are as many good players as many think on this defense. Harrison and Polamalu will stabilize the defense, but they aren't turning it into something that can be leaned on to make a play. Harrison is going to be less than 100% when he returns and Troy will probably play 3 games and then be injured again. The young guys have got to stand up and account for themselves, regardless of scheme or defensive play calling.

Pappy

[Oviedo]

What makes you think we have good players, just curious? From what I have seen the Steelers have players that are less than good. Timmons has been a non-factor, Hood gets pushed wherever the offensive lineman wants to push him, Heyward is still young and may be okay, Worilds and Carter are not NFL caliber starting OLBs in a 34 defense, Mundy has heart and I love him, but he's below the line, Lewis and/or Allen haven't stepped up and made plays.

Personally, I don't think there are as many good players as many think on this defense. Harrison and Polamalu will stabilize the defense, but they aren't turning it into something that can be leaned on to make a play. Harrison is going to be less than 100% when he returns and Troy will probably play 3 games and then be injured again. The young guys have got to stand up and account for themselves, regardless of scheme or defensive play calling.

Pappy

If the defense that was so often cited last year as being ranked as #1 is all of a sudden so devoid of talent what happened? What adjustments have the very long tenured defensive staff made to adjust to the supposed sudden drop in talent? Why didn't they anticipate and plan for the sudden lack of talent?

We can see different things if we want but it is clear to me that the problem is the play calling on defense specifically the4 lack of aggressiveness. It is no shock that we nbeat the Jets because Timmons was send on blitzes at least half a dozen times in that game. Foote was sent. We saw far less of that against the Raiders and the defense reverted to their passive "bend don't break" playcalling. Everytime we do that we struggle on defense.

You may want to believe that the players all of a sudden forgot how to play football but I think the source of the problem is what they are being told to do.

[Shoe]

I think that's when guys like Keisel and Hampton as guys who played in the loss and Troy and Harrison as the best players on the D need to step up, show leadership and assist the younger guys from not letting it get to their heads. Take this terrible performance and use it to turn into some sort of motivation. And they needed to see Tomlin do what he did. They deserved it for their play - they stunk. Lets see what they do with it. Anyone who shuts down should be shown the door.

You show leadership by example. You make plays. The problem with your comment is that you have too much faith in Keisel/Hampton and their ability. These guys at their best, were just solid role-players. Now that both are long in the tooth, you can't expect either to all of a sudden start caving the pocket, when they didn't even really do that in their prime. TBH, one/both should've been replaced by now, by an undeniable youngster. For whatever reason, that hasn't happened (e.g. though McLendon looked good this preseason).

The young guys shouldn't need a vet to show them. None are rookies. Carter is a 2nd year guy. Hood is my gosh, 4th year? Timmons, 5th year? MAKE A F'N PLAY YOURSELVES. I know I'm overstating it, but these young guys should be ashamed on some level. e.g. In my mind's eye, Chris Carter's season totals for Tackles-Sacks-Ints is: 0-0-0. I know he must have had at least one (tackle), but I can't recall. He is an invisible man. Same with Hood. Same with Timmons. The role of the vets is to be like glue or spackle; just fill-in and make the D solid. It's up to the young guys to do the heavy lifting.

[Oviedo]

This pretty well sums up where the problem lies:


@ The Steelers wasted one of the best performances of Roethlisberger's life.

In fact, they've wasted one of the best starts of his career, stumbling out of the gate with a 1-2 record.

Roethlisberger has a 109.2 passer rating and eight TD passes in three games.

@ On the flip side of that, opposing quarterbacks have a 99.8 rating. This after opposing QBs had a rating of just 71.7 in 2011 despite the Steelers only making 11 interceptions.

The Steelers allowed 15 touchdown passes in the entire 2011 season. They're currently on pace to give up 32.

The team isn't generating any pass rush and it's allowing opposing QBs to do pretty much anything they want back there.

Can the return of James Harrison and Troy Polamalu help that? They certainly can't hurt.

But it doesn't bode well for the future.



Anybody that tries to pin any of this on Ben and the offense is delusional or in denial that they need to see their false idol for what he is now regardless of past glories. So far in the 2012 season the offense has held up their end of the bargain.

[ikestops85]

This pretty well sums up where the problem lies:



Anybody that tries to pin any of this on Ben and the offense is delusional or in denial that they need to see their false idol for what he is now regardless of past glories. So far in the 2012 season the offense has held up their end of the bargain.

I'll give you all of that except for the false idol crap. ;)

[papillon]

If the defense that was so often cited last year as being ranked as #1 is all of a sudden so devoid of talent what happened? What adjustments have the very long tenured defensive staff made to adjust to the supposed sudden drop in talent? Why didn't they anticipate and plan for the sudden lack of talent?

We can see different things if we want but it is clear to me that the problem is the play calling on defense specifically the4 lack of aggressiveness. It is no shock that we nbeat the Jets because Timmons was send on blitzes at least half a dozen times in that game. Foote was sent. We saw far less of that against the Raiders and the defense reverted to their passive "bend don't break" playcalling. Everytime we do that we struggle on defense.

You may want to believe that the players all of a sudden forgot how to play football but I think the source of the problem is what they are being told to do.

The defense is losing almost every one on one battle and that doesn't have anything to do with the play calling. LBs are getting engulfed on running plays, defensive linemen are being pushed wherever the offense needs them to be pushed, the corner backs don't cover very well and safety play is below the line. The defense was expecting Hood to become a force, Timmons to be a terror, Carter or Worilds to at least be adequate and none of this is happening. Dick Lebeau and Keith Butler didn't forget how to coach defense, the players right now simply look over matched, IMO. It's not the the scheme, it's not the aggressiveness (The CBs have been playing press), it's not the play calling, right now, the individual players can't win a one-on-one battle with the guy across the LOS and that's a problem.

Pappy

[Shoe]

The defense is losing almost every one on one battle and that doesn't have anything to do with the play calling. LBs are getting engulfed on running plays, defensive linemen are being pushed wherever the offense needs them to be pushed, the corner backs don't cover very well and safety play is below the line. The defense was expecting Hood to become a force, Timmons to be a terror, Carter or Worilds to at least be adequate and none of this is happening. Dick Lebeau and Keith Butler didn't forget how to coach defense, the players right now simply look over matched, IMO. It's not the the scheme, it's not the aggressiveness (The CBs have been playing press), it's not the play calling, right now, the individual players can't win a one-on-one battle with the guy across the LOS and that's a problem.

Pappy

D-m right.
Are you going to single block JJ Watt or Justin Smith all game? Hell no. Would you Ziggy Hood? MOST DEF.
Same with Cushing or Patrick Willis? What about Timmons? I'm not even going to bring up Chris Carter, who plays OLB as if he's a 45-year old WR from Ohio State.

Our defense this year hinges totally on the health of three players: Harrison, Woodley, and Polamalu. We lose any of them for any extended period from this point forward, and we're toast defensively. Get used to 30-point shootouts (which with our offense, we still should be able to outgun some teams). That's the bottom line.