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View Full Version : Shaping up to be the Worst Steelers Defense...



Flasteel
09-23-2012, 08:39 PM
...of my lifetime.

I cannot recall the last time we had a defense which inspired such a lack of faith and confidence. I knew we would lose that game and Tomlin knew it too. Why else would we go for it deep in our own territory with 4 minutes left in the game?

I blame LeBeau for being so passive and our players for not having the talent, desire, and fortitude to get the job done. It's actually tough to dole-out specific blame when all parties looked so atrocious.

Heath had a solid game today, but Ben Roethlisberer is a one-man show at this point. The rest of the team doesn't deserve to draw a pay check.

pittpete
09-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Only 3 games and we had no Troy or Harrison.
I think you are overreacting a little.
What I havnt seen is Lebeau bring any pressure from DBs.
Getting tired of watching the same cross blitzes by our LBers.
Im sure in 2 weeks things will get better...
It has to, we cant get any worse

Jooser
09-23-2012, 08:43 PM
The defense sucks. No pressure, gaping running lanes, and the usual soft secondary spells disaster. Hopefully getting our two pro-bowlers back after the by-week will provide some leadership and spark some better play, but right now, they are just plain stinking up the joint. Timmons and Foote suck arse in pass coverage in the middle.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-23-2012, 08:45 PM
it's bad.

I'm really disappointed in the play of the DL and Secondary. Going into the season, I thought both these groups were pretty solid.

boy, was I wrong.

Oviedo
09-23-2012, 08:48 PM
Only 3 games and we had no Troy or Harrison.
I think you are overreacting a little.
What I havnt seen is Lebeau bring any pressure from DBs.
Getting tired of watching the same cross blitzes by our LBers.
Im sure in 2 weeks things will get better...
It has to, we cant get any worse


The "father of the zone blitz" has become the "father of predictability"

Like I said after last season. We needed two new coordinators. We came up one short.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 08:50 PM
The defense has CARRIED this franchise since the 70's and when they have an occassional lapse the nation goes berserk. The defense shows up WAY MORE frequently than the offense. How many points did the Offense score in the 4th? They produced for 3 quarters, I guess thats enough for the win huh?

The DEFENSE is the most consistent part of our team

Jooser
09-23-2012, 08:53 PM
The defense has CARRIED this franchise since the 70's and when they have an occassional lapse the nation goes berserk. The defense shows up WAY MORE frequently than the offense. How many points did the Offense score in the 4th? They produced for 3 quarters, I guess thats enough for the win huh?

The DEFENSE is the most consistent part of our team

Dude, the lousy Raiders just hung 34 points on this defense, and they sucked in the season opener. There's problems with the D, undeniably so. The offense scored 31 points today, Ben had a career day (384 yrds, 4 TDs) and it wasn't enough to win.

Sugar
09-23-2012, 08:54 PM
If you had told me before the game that we would hang 31 on them I'd have put it in the win column automatically. A little stunned at how terrible the D was today. I thought after keeping the Jets in check last week that they had overcome their issues but that was mistaken. :HeadBanger

Steelgal
09-23-2012, 08:54 PM
The defense has CARRIED this franchise since the 70's and when they have an occassional lapse the nation goes berserk. The defense shows up WAY MORE frequently than the offense. How many points did the Offense score in the 4th? They produced for 3 quarters, I guess thats enough for the win huh?

The DEFENSE is the most consistent part of our team

Yes, but the game has evolved in the past few years. The way you play defense and how the rules have changed has made it more favorable for offenses. Our defense has NOT adjusted to those changes. They can't run the same schemes they did, even 5 years ago and expect the same results. The game has changed and so should the way they play defense.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-23-2012, 09:00 PM
The defense has CARRIED this franchise since the 70's and when they have an occassional lapse the nation goes berserk. The defense shows up WAY MORE frequently than the offense. How many points did the Offense score in the 4th? They produced for 3 quarters, I guess thats enough for the win huh?

The DEFENSE is the most consistent part of our team

This is absolutely, 100% true.

When averaged over the past 30 years, maybe. :-)

The reality is that for the past few years, when we've needed stops we haven't been able to get them. I'd be willing to bet that we are in the bottom five in the league over the past 5 years for stopping 3rd and longs, especially late in the game when it counts.

Can anyone say they don't get a REAL bad feeling in the pit of their stomach when the other team has a 3rd and 23 with time running out in the 4th quarter and is down by less than 1 score? No matter WHERE on the field they are?

Flasteel
09-23-2012, 09:01 PM
The defense has CARRIED this franchise since the 70's and when they have an occassional lapse the nation goes berserk. The defense shows up WAY MORE frequently than the offense. How many points did the Offense score in the 4th? They produced for 3 quarters, I guess thats enough for the win huh?

The DEFENSE is the most consistent part of our team

The only thing consistent about this defense is their inability to get off the field and make big plays.

This is 2 out of 3 games they have turned in a performance that is nothing short of embarrassing. I know full well that it is only 3 games into the season and that is why I said it's "shaping up" to be one of the worst defenses we've ever fielded. The evidence is out there and you can't hide from it. It's a carry-over from last year's performance but mostly nased on what they have put on the field in 2012.

The fact that we always put out strong defenses is precisely why this years' version is so disappointing. It's a long season and they can definitely turn it around if Troy and Harrison can come back and stay healthy. But LeBeau has got to find a way to bring more pressure.

Ghost
09-23-2012, 09:01 PM
This "its only three games" nonsense has to stop. The defense today was a total DISRACE. Can't get a stop when needed and gave up the last 13 points of the game. Mundy should be cut, he flat out sucks. Ziggy Hood is non existent - 4th year for a 1st round draft choice and he wouldn't be missed a lick if he never suited up again. Th D line gets pushed around like they are kids. There is NO pressure at all. Manning shredded them, Palmer threw for 3 TDS, and Sanchez was more a factor in stopping the Jets than anything the D did to stop him. Other than the browns, there may not be an easy game the rest of the year.

Oviedo
09-23-2012, 09:02 PM
Yes, but the game has evolved in the past few years. The way you play defense and how the rules have changed has made it more favorable for offenses. Our defense has NOT adjusted to those changes. They can't run the same schemes they did, even 5 years ago and expect the same results. The game has changed and so should the way they play defense.

Exactly what I have been saying for the past two years:

Our defense has NOT adjusted to those changes. They can't run the same schemes they did, even 5 years ago and expect the same results.

All you hear in response is what the "rankings are." LeBeau is too in love with his baby to call it ugly. Time to move on.

Go ahead, you can all say it and it won't hurt, "Ovi has been right";)

Sugar
09-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Other than the browns, there may not be an easy game the rest of the year.

The Browns aren't even easy games with this D. Up to today, the Raiders had looked worse then the Browns.

phillyesq
09-23-2012, 09:14 PM
Exactly what I have been saying for the past two years:


All you hear in response is what the "rankings are." LeBeau is too in love with his baby to call it ugly. Time to move on.

Go ahead, you can all say it and it won't hurt, "Ovi has been right";)

So you think the players have nothing to do with it? Or replacing Troy with Mundy and Harrison with Carter -- 2 of our biggest impact players with 2 zeros - has nothing to do with it?

And you absolve the fumbles and poor special teams play?

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 09:19 PM
They are inconsistent. When Ben is hurt an plays badly they use EVERY excuse in the book for his poor play. If the line is banged up or playcalling. However, when the defense is missing TWO All Pros, then that doesnt matter. Ben playing on a bad leg matters. But a hurt Polamalu or Harrison doesnt.

Total hypocrisy

Jooser
09-23-2012, 09:22 PM
I don't absolve the fumbles or penalties, they are to blame as well. But, there's no denying that the Raiders just hung 34 points on this defense. To date, the team as a whole has been very sloppy and ill-prepared overall, IMHO, with sprinkles of good plays here and there. If Troy and Deebo can get healthy and provide the D with some spark, and the O cleans up the slop, this team could be very scary. Right now, I'm holding my breath and hoping it's just injury and the team "gelling" that's the issue, but at the same time I'd say this season could go either way.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-23-2012, 09:24 PM
So you think the players have nothing to do with it? Or replacing Troy with Mundy and Harrison with Carter -- 2 of our biggest impact players with 2 zeros - has nothing to do with it?

And you absolve the fumbles and poor special teams play?

of course he does.

NorthCoast
09-23-2012, 10:04 PM
Linebackers are being swallowed up on nearly every play. They are being blocked by TEs, WRs, RBs. Foote is slooow. Worilds was chasing most of the time, same with Timmons. Ziggy is getting pushed all over the field.
What is most worrisome is the seeming lack of toughness by the defense. I haven't seen it this bad in a while. I watched the Houston defense today and the differences were stark compared to the Steelers.
Also, it seemed the Steelers were caught in their 4-2-5 defense at the worse possible times. Mundy has a big heart, but the guy just is not very talented and is easily tricked into bad coverages and angles.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 10:11 PM
So we should disregard the 40 years that the defense has carried the team?

Oh by the way what is a offensive nickname?

STEEL CURTAIN for a reason.

chiken
09-23-2012, 10:16 PM
Why are we making it seem like we have never loss games with Both Troy and James Playing? I mean I love those guys and I do think they will help but we are not 2 people away from being a championship Defense.

The Gig is up on our defensive philosophy. Teams are scheming James & Lamar into pass coverage's. Elite Qbs are out guessing Troy. We are No longer Stout up the middle and We are to afraid to play Man coverage for longer than 1 game at a time.

We are no longer feared, We use to dictate things but its us who are being Dictated. I am sure the new Rules have a ton to do with this but whatever.. We need to adjust. We cant expect for our offense to score touchdowns every time they touch the ball. Scoring Over 30 points should be enough to get us a win against anybody.

OF all the games played This season there only 4 other teams that scored at least 31 points and lost. (Saints, Skins, Bucs and Lions)

Flasteel
09-23-2012, 10:18 PM
Why are we making it seem like we have never loss games with Both Troy and James Playing? I mean I love those guys and I do think they will help but we are not 2 people away from being a championship Defense.

The Gig is up on our defensive philosophy. Teams are scheming James & Lamar into pass coverage's. Elite Qbs are out guessing Troy. We are No longer Stout up the middle and We are to afraid to play Man coverage for longer than 1 game at a time.

We are no longer feared, We use to dictate things but its us who are being Dictated. I am sure the new Rules have a ton to do with this but whatever.. We need to adjust. We cant expect for our offense to score touchdowns every time they touch the ball. Scoring Over 30 points should be enough to get us a win against anybody.

OF all the games played This season there only 4 other teams that scored at least 31 points and lost. (Saints, Skins, Bucs and Lions)

Well stated.

Ghost
09-23-2012, 10:28 PM
"2 people away from being a championship Defense" - this hits the nail on the head. This D is not good and while adding those 2 back certainly helps, may even win a game or two, this D will continue to be overmatched by the good QB's and overwhelmed by the great ones.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 10:34 PM
"2 people away from being a championship Defense" - this hits the nail on the head. This D is not good and while adding those 2 back certainly helps, may even win a game or two, this D will continue to be overmatched by the good QB's and overwhelmed by the great ones.

Well how come our qb doesnt overmatch and overwhelm good and great defenses? He habitually plays poorly against good Defenses. I have the stats

DukieBoy
09-23-2012, 10:40 PM
Why are we making it seem like we have never loss games with Both Troy and James Playing? I mean I love those guys and I do think they will help but we are not 2 people away from being a championship Defense.

The Gig is up on our defensive philosophy. Teams are scheming James & Lamar into pass coverage's. Elite Qbs are out guessing Troy. We are No longer Stout up the middle and We are to afraid to play Man coverage for longer than 1 game at a time.

We are no longer feared, We use to dictate things but its us who are being Dictated. I am sure the new Rules have a ton to do with this but whatever.. We need to adjust. We cant expect for our offense to score touchdowns every time they touch the ball. Scoring Over 30 points should be enough to get us a win against anybody.

OF all the games played This season there only 4 other teams that scored at least 31 points and lost. (Saints, Skins, Bucs and Lions)

Truth. Hard to accept, but Truth.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 10:43 PM
Elite qb are not out guessing Troy.

steelz09
09-23-2012, 10:50 PM
The reality is that we are not developing good defensive YOUNG talent to replace our older guys. I've said this numerous times.

The fact that we are hanging our hat on a 35 y/o James Harrison and a 31 y/o Troy is pathetic. Granted, you can't replace Troy easily.. He's a HOFer. I'm not talking about developing a HOFer. I'm talking about developing SOLID, FUTURE STARTERS. We are not doing that. Period.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 10:58 PM
Really? How about Woodley? Timmons? (who can play both olb and mlb). McClendon? Ziggy?Heyward?

Most of you dont understand the scheme. You guys compare our players to others. You cant compare Aaron Smith to Michael Strahan. One is a 3-4 end and the other is a 4-3 one. Asked to do two different things. Our corners, safties etc wont have as many ints as others defenders due to our scheme. Lebeaus scheme is designed to keep the ball in front of you (Not to get turnovers).

So when you guys dont see our players making plays like other defenders its not because they arent good but its our scheme. Scheme is designed to have two stars (OLBS) and thats it. Troy Polamalu and Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake are exceptions to Dick's rule.

Shoe
09-23-2012, 11:24 PM
The only thing consistent about this defense is their inability to get off the field and make big plays.

That's the bottom line. The defense CAN NOT get off the field when it wants to, when it needs to. This is not a 2012 trend either. Anyone with two eyes has seen it for a while now (at least since the GB Super Bowl).

Starlifter
09-23-2012, 11:33 PM
Harrison and Troy will help, but they are NOT the answer they once were. I seriously doubt Harrison will ever again be the impact player he was. The heart is still strong, but the injuries are nagging and won't go away.

There is no 'one thing' wrong with the defense. age is a factor. scheme is a factor. performance from the backups is a HUGE factor. Our captain jumping offsides and giving them a TD is a factor. We used to outscheme AND outphysical our opponents. now we do neither. I don't care about rankings or points allowed. the simple truth is the defense has been on the decline for 3 years. they have tried to transition it with new players (hood, timmons, etc) but those players have yet to step up. That's why keisel and hampton are still starting. zero pressure on carson today. first two games the raiders were dead last in 3rd down conversion. against the steelers defense they never punted. we were all making excuses in week one. hey, it's peyton manning. nope, it was us. thank god sanchez sucks or the season would already be over. we got two weeks to figure something out and get healthy. get to 2-2 and maybe we turn it around. go to 1-3 and yikes.

hello high draft pick. although all things considered - we could use one.

Chadman
09-23-2012, 11:35 PM
A few years back, Chadman favoured the mythical switch to the 4-3 Defense. Then Tomlin & co invested heavily in what was meant to be an influx of 3-4 talent. Thing is, these 3-4 guys they brought in have not become the 'new age' 3-4 players. Chadman said during the gameday chat that the Steelers defense is now "straight ahead" fast, but "laterally slow". This is a problem when, as chiken pointed out, the opposition are forcing guys like Woodley & Harrison into coverage, exploiting their 'laterally slow' tendancies. Even our DB's are 'laterally slow'. Including Troy- who is very 'straight ahead' fast. It might be time to switch to the 4-3. It would mean that the Steelers potentially have 1 DT too many between Hood, Heyward, McLendon & Taamu (for next season- won't happen this season) & not enough genuine DE's of high quality (Woodley, Worilds, Keisel, Carter). The switch would benefit LaMarr Woodley most- his straight ahead speed is great, his strength & pass rush, great. His pass coverage skills... average at best. If he was a 4-3 DE with the task of just getting upfield all day, he would most likely excel. Same goes for Worilds, who doesn't seem able to switch into coverage with any confidence.

The LB's could also get a boost because a 4-3 would likely suit 2 of it's more promising players more than the 3-4- Timmons (who would move to OLB in a 4-3, and Sean Spence who excelled at college at ILB, but may not be big enough in a 3-4). Stevenson Sylvester is fast enough to get a look at the other OLB spot, but the Steelers would likely need to add another OLB to the roster- or use Brandon Johnson there.

At DB, the Steelers need to move away from the 'big CB' mantra they seem to adore & start bringing in some agile, quicker guys. Curtis Brown still seems, to Chadman, to be the best suited CB to play man coverage. He's 'laterally quick'. Cortez Allen looks 'straight ahead fast' & might be suited to a FS role more than CB. Keenan Lewis does not inspire Chadman much. Clark & Polamalu are getting close to retirement age now, and moves MUST be made to secure young talent to learn from them while there is still time. Ike could hold a CB spot in a 4-3 as easily as he does in a 3-4, but he's getting shown up when the pressure from the OLB's isn't there.

To move to a 4-3 will take time to get it 'right'. But even 'half right' for a year or two, so long as it's moving more towards 'right' than 'wrong', is better than the current 3-4 system we use, which has been progressively getting shown up for a few years now. The Steelers 3-4 is moving more towards 'wrong' than 'right', and with the current roster, doesn't look to be making any significant moves to rectify that.

Shoe
09-23-2012, 11:58 PM
Harrison and Troy will help, but they are NOT the answer they once were. I seriously doubt Harrison will ever again be the impact player he was. The heart is still strong, but the injuries are nagging and won't go away.

There is no 'one thing' wrong with the defense. age is a factor. scheme is a factor. performance from the backups is a HUGE factor. Our captain jumping offsides and giving them a TD is a factor. We used to outscheme AND outphysical our opponents. now we do neither. I don't care about rankings or points allowed. the simple truth is the defense has been on the decline for 3 years. they have tried to transition it with new players (hood, timmons, etc) but those players have yet to step up. That's why keisel and hampton are still starting. zero pressure on carson today. first two games the raiders were dead last in 3rd down conversion. against the steelers defense they never punted. we were all making excuses in week one. hey, it's peyton manning. nope, it was us. thank god sanchez sucks or the season would already be over. we got two weeks to figure something out and get healthy. get to 2-2 and maybe we turn it around. go to 1-3 and yikes.

hello high draft pick. although all things considered - we could use one.

Well, they are (the answer) and they aren't. They aren't the players they were... but still, that is the only shot our D has at this point. Because it's clear that without them, we will be at the mercy of ANY team. With one (the other one being out), we also have proven to be very vulnerable. With both, we have a chance. We may not be "Steeler Defense" tough, but I think we can hold the fort enough to be competitive with the better teams.

Starlifter
09-24-2012, 07:54 AM
Well, they are (the answer) and they aren't. They aren't the players they were... but still, that is the only shot our D has at this point. Because it's clear that without them, we will be at the mercy of ANY team. With one (the other one being out), we also have proven to be very vulnerable. With both, we have a chance. We may not be "Steeler Defense" tough, but I think we can hold the fort enough to be competitive with the better teams.

my point is that, certainly we need them back and we'll be a better defense with them - but our problems are deep and go way beyond missing harrison and troy. better? yes. back to a lights out feared defense? no way.

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 08:07 AM
Why are we making it seem like we have never loss games with Both Troy and James Playing? I mean I love those guys and I do think they will help but we are not 2 people away from being a championship Defense.

The Gig is up on our defensive philosophy. Teams are scheming James & Lamar into pass coverage's. Elite Qbs are out guessing Troy. We are No longer Stout up the middle and We are to afraid to play Man coverage for longer than 1 game at a time.

We are no longer feared, We use to dictate things but its us who are being Dictated. I am sure the new Rules have a ton to do with this but whatever.. We need to adjust. We cant expect for our offense to score touchdowns every time they touch the ball. Scoring Over 30 points should be enough to get us a win against anybody.

OF all the games played This season there only 4 other teams that scored at least 31 points and lost. (Saints, Skins, Bucs and Lions)

You're right, "the gig is up!" Unfortunately everyone wanted to ignore it because they were too busy with idol worship. This is not a surprise. it was clear this is where we were heading but no one wanted to see it because they were too busy blaming Arians for all the worlds faults. We needed two new coordinators after last season. Rooney and Tomlin failed on that one.

Unfortunatelty the inability of the defense to change has left us where we now have to make reactive changes not proactive ones to stay ahead of the rest of the league.

chiken
09-24-2012, 08:09 AM
my point is that, certainly we need them back and we'll be a better defense with them - but our problems are deep and go way beyond missing harrison and troy. better? yes. back to a lights out feared defense? no way.


Better yes, Competitive we can only hope.

Our Defense hasnt been a Factor for more than a few years.. Last years #1 ranking was a total slap in the face to what a Good defense is suppose to be.


We dont know what to expect anymore - even with Troy and James. No one who has been following the Steelers for as long as Most of us have can honestly say any different.. not at this point.

papillon
09-24-2012, 08:30 AM
Really? How about Woodley? Timmons? (who can play both olb and mlb). McClendon? Ziggy?Heyward?

Most of you dont understand the scheme. You guys compare our players to others. You cant compare Aaron Smith to Michael Strahan. One is a 3-4 end and the other is a 4-3 one. Asked to do two different things. Our corners, safties etc wont have as many ints as others defenders due to our scheme. Lebeaus scheme is designed to keep the ball in front of you (Not to get turnovers).

So when you guys dont see our players making plays like other defenders its not because they arent good but its our scheme. Scheme is designed to have two stars (OLBS) and thats it. Troy Polamalu and Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake are exceptions to Dick's rule.

Do you really believe that Timmons, McClendon, Ziggy and Heyward have been developed into top tier NFL talent? Heck, not even top tier talent, have they been developed into above average NFL talent? Woodley, maybe he's top tier, but right now the Steelers aren't putting any players in the Pro-Bowl on the defensive side of the ball. Right now Timmons and Woodley appear to be the beneficiaries of having a young Hampton, a young Smith and Brett Kiesel in front of them to allow them to make plays.

In the fourth quarter the Raiders had three drives and four 3rd and 9 or 10 opportunities and the defense didn't make a play on any of those and all three drives ended up TD and the final one was the game winning FG. If they get off on one of those, the game could be different, since Ben and the offense were having a good game until the their final drive when they didn't get it done. The defense is below the line right now and Troy and James aren't making a difference big enough to propel the Steelers into the top tier teams. They are going to need other players to start making plays starting in two weeks.

Pappy

flippy
09-24-2012, 08:36 AM
Couple of points:

1. The Offense fumbled 4 times and lost 2.

2. Ryan Clark got a turnover to start the game which lead to an easy 7.

3. Officiating turned a Oakland 4th and 2 into a 1st and goal inside the 5. That's another 4 points for Oakland.

4. ST gave up yards. Including a horrible punt. And holds on a return for a TD that cost us some points.

5. The O didn't score TDs in the 4th quarter.

We can blame the defense, but who didn't see this coming? The problem on D for years has been the inability to generate pressure on opposing QBs.

But yesterday's loss isn't all on our D. They have their issues. But we still would have won this game if the O and ST played better.

We have a long time to work this out. No one hands out Lombardi's yet.

papillon
09-24-2012, 08:37 AM
A few years back, Chadman favoured the mythical switch to the 4-3 Defense. Then Tomlin & co invested heavily in what was meant to be an influx of 3-4 talent. Thing is, these 3-4 guys they brought in have not become the 'new age' 3-4 players. Chadman said during the gameday chat that the Steelers defense is now "straight ahead" fast, but "laterally slow". This is a problem when, as chiken pointed out, the opposition are forcing guys like Woodley & Harrison into coverage, exploiting their 'laterally slow' tendancies. Even our DB's are 'laterally slow'. Including Troy- who is very 'straight ahead' fast. It might be time to switch to the 4-3. It would mean that the Steelers potentially have 1 DT too many between Hood, Heyward, McLendon & Taamu (for next season- won't happen this season) & not enough genuine DE's of high quality (Woodley, Worilds, Keisel, Carter). The switch would benefit LaMarr Woodley most- his straight ahead speed is great, his strength & pass rush, great. His pass coverage skills... average at best. If he was a 4-3 DE with the task of just getting upfield all day, he would most likely excel. Same goes for Worilds, who doesn't seem able to switch into coverage with any confidence.

The LB's could also get a boost because a 4-3 would likely suit 2 of it's more promising players more than the 3-4- Timmons (who would move to OLB in a 4-3, and Sean Spence who excelled at college at ILB, but may not be big enough in a 3-4). Stevenson Sylvester is fast enough to get a look at the other OLB spot, but the Steelers would likely need to add another OLB to the roster- or use Brandon Johnson there.

At DB, the Steelers need to move away from the 'big CB' mantra they seem to adore & start bringing in some agile, quicker guys. Curtis Brown still seems, to Chadman, to be the best suited CB to play man coverage. He's 'laterally quick'. Cortez Allen looks 'straight ahead fast' & might be suited to a FS role more than CB. Keenan Lewis does not inspire Chadman much. Clark & Polamalu are getting close to retirement age now, and moves MUST be made to secure young talent to learn from them while there is still time. Ike could hold a CB spot in a 4-3 as easily as he does in a 3-4, but he's getting shown up when the pressure from the OLB's isn't there.

To move to a 4-3 will take time to get it 'right'. But even 'half right' for a year or two, so long as it's moving more towards 'right' than 'wrong', is better than the current 3-4 system we use, which has been progressively getting shown up for a few years now. The Steelers 3-4 is moving more towards 'wrong' than 'right', and with the current roster, doesn't look to be making any significant moves to rectify that.

This may all be true, however, right now they are a 34 defense and the last few drafts in which the Steelers were hoping to restock defensive talent, they haven't. The players all started out looking like they were hits in the first round, but I think what we're seeing is that these players saw early success because of the veterans on the team, Smith, Hampton (a yonger Hampton) and Kiesel, throw in Farrior and a healthy Troy and James and you have the makings of a great defense.

Farrior and Smith are gone, Hamption is showing age, James and Troy can't stay healthy and Kiesel is good, but he isn't elite. The Steelers were hoping for the new players to step in after learning and being in the NFL for a few years, it appears that it hasn't happened.

Pappy

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 08:46 AM
This may all be true, however, right now they are a 34 defense and the last few drafts in which the Steelers were hoping to restock defensive talent, they haven't. The players all started out looking like they were hits in the first round, but I think what we're seeing is that these players saw early success because of the veterans on the team, Smith, Hampton (a yonger Hampton) and Kiesel, throw in Farrior and a healthy Troy and James and you have the makings of a great defense.

Farrior and Smith are gone, Hamption is showing age, James and Troy can't stay healthy and Kiesel is good, but he isn't elite. The Steelers were hoping for the new players to step in after learning and being in the NFL for a few years, it appears that it hasn't happened.

Pappy

Pappy--I don't think that a conversion to a 4-3 would be as didfficult as you think. Remember, almost all our players grew up playing a 4-3 especially the DL. Players we would draft going forward would not have to go through the 2 year conversion process from college DT to DE and from college DE to OLB. Not much would change for the defensive secondary.

stopplayn
09-24-2012, 08:53 AM
Couple of points:

1. The Offense fumbled 4 times and lost 2.

2. Ryan Clark got a turnover to start the game which lead to an easy 7.

3. Officiating turned a Oakland 4th and 2 into a 1st and goal inside the 5. That's another 4 points for Oakland.

4. ST gave up yards. Including a horrible punt. And holds on a return for a TD that cost us some points.

5. The O didn't score TDs in the 4th quarter.

We can blame the defense, but who didn't see this coming? The problem on D for years has been the inability to generate pressure on opposing QBs.

But yesterday's loss isn't all on our D. They have their issues. But we still would have won this game if the O and ST played better.

We have a long time to work this out. No one hands out Lombardi's yet.

Very accurate and reasonable post but there is a shortage on reason around here

Slapstick
09-24-2012, 09:00 AM
Couple of points:

1. The Offense fumbled 4 times and lost 2.

2. Ryan Clark got a turnover to start the game which lead to an easy 7.

3. Officiating turned a Oakland 4th and 2 into a 1st and goal inside the 5. That's another 4 points for Oakland.

4. ST gave up yards. Including a horrible punt. And holds on a return for a TD that cost us some points.

5. The O didn't score TDs in the 4th quarter.

We can blame the defense, but who didn't see this coming? The problem on D for years has been the inability to generate pressure on opposing QBs.

But yesterday's loss isn't all on our D. They have their issues. But we still would have won this game if the O and ST played better.

We have a long time to work this out. No one hands out Lombardi's yet.

Flippy: Unlikely Voice of Reason

stopplayn
09-24-2012, 09:01 AM
Ben Roethlisberger is great. Now disagree with that.

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 09:26 AM
This was all on the D. Why does the offense have to be perfect while the D can be azzz for 80% of the game? This was Oakland for goodness sakes.

They had the Raiders pinned deepon a 3rd and 8(0) and converted. They needed to stop the Raiders from getting into FG range and gave up a 25 yard pass underneath... Palmer didn't have one piece of dust on him ALL day.

The D lost this game....

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 09:42 AM
This was all on the D. Why does the offense have to be perfect while the D can be azzz for 80% of the game? This was Oakland for goodness sakes.

They had the Raiders pinned deepon a 3rd and 8(0) and converted. They needed to stop the Raiders from getting into FG range and gave up a 25 yard pass underneath... Palmer didn't have one piece of dust on him ALL day.

The D lost this game....

To answer you question, it is because many do not want to have to really acknowledge the source of the problem on the defense. They would rather emeber past glories and accomplishments. Unfortunately the NFL is playing game in the here and now under rules that are in place here and now.

Yes, the "D" lost this game. Couldn't stop anything. The problem is we don't have the excuse that "it was Peyton Manning." It was freaking Carson Palmer!

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 09:45 AM
..and the sad thing is Peyton isn't really playing great football. We do a great job of following the story lines ESPN and NFLN need for ratings.

flippy
09-24-2012, 09:45 AM
To answer you question, it is because many do not want to have to really acknowledge the source of the problem on the defense. They would rather emeber past glories and accomplishments. Unfortunately the NFL is playing game in the here and now under rules that are in place here and now.

Yes, the "D" lost this game. Couldn't stop anything. The problem is we don't have the excuse that "it was Peyton Manning." It was freaking Carson Palmer!

Not to mention, we made Peyton Manning look like Peyton Manning :)

Ghost
09-24-2012, 09:52 AM
The O put up 31 points and twice had a lead for 10 points in the second half. Head scratching that people would place blame on them. Were they perfect - of course not. But 31 points on an 0-2 team that had not scored more than 14 in a game should be enough - EVERY time if the D plays at all. At all!! The D was a full blown embarrassment yesterday.

In the 4th Q the Raiders had 5 3rd downs and converted 4 of them and scored on all.
3rd and 9 - 17 yards
3rd and 8 - 10 yards
3rd and 3 - 4 yards
3rd and 9 - 5 yards (the one stop - still got 3)
3rd and 10 - 15 yards

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 09:59 AM
The O put up 31 points and twice had a lead for 10 points in the second half. Head scratching that people would place blame on them. Were they perfect - of course not. But 31 points on an 0-2 team that had not scored more than 14 in a game should be enough - EVERY time if the D plays at all. At all!! The D was a full blown embarrassment yesterday.

In the 4th Q the Raiders had 5 3rd downs and converted 4 of them and scored on all.
3rd and 9 - 17 yards
3rd and 8 - 10 yards
3rd and 3 - 4 yards
3rd and 9 - 5 yards (the one stop - still got 3)
3rd and 10 - 15 yards

I hate to bring Crash's name up but he was spot on about our D. Every time we put up 7 or get a nice cushion they give it right back. It's time for our fans to accept reality. Our D is the reason we aren't winning and it doesn't matter how much clock we eat up... they aren't tired physically... it's mental. Too much thinking, too many cute blitzes and packages and not enough balling. Quit trying to confuse people, just beat your man and make a freaking play. Too much chess when these guys have spent their whole lives playing checkers. It was great when it worked but now it's sad to watch.

Not sure if anyone is a PITT fan but the first 2 games the D looked like a bad HS team... then they came out and physically manhandled VTech. I'm not sure what changed but my theory is the DC threw out the playbook and said PLAY FOOTBALL.

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 10:01 AM
I hate to bring Crash's name up but he was spot on about our D. Every time we put up 7 or get a nice cushion they give it right back. It's time for our fans to accept reality. Our D is the reason we aren't winning and it doesn't matter how much clock we eat up... they aren't tired physically... it's mental. Too much thinking, too many cute blitzes and packages and not enough balling. Quit trying to confuse people, just beat your man and make a freaking play. Too much chess when these guys have spent their whole lives playing checkers. It was great when it worked but now it's sad to watch.

Not sure if anyone is a PITT fan but the first 2 games the D looked like a bad HS team... then they came out and physically manhandled VTech. I'm not sure what changed but my theory is the DC threw out the playbook and said PLAY FOOTBALL.

Hello...who has been sending up the warning flares about the defense for two years now????;)

flippy
09-24-2012, 10:02 AM
The O put up 31 points and twice had a lead for 10 points in the second half. Head scratching that people would place blame on them. Were they perfect - of course not. But 31 points on an 0-2 team that had not scored more than 14 in a game should be enough - EVERY time if the D plays at all. At all!! The D was a full blown embarrassment yesterday.

In the 4th Q the Raiders had 5 3rd downs and converted 4 of them and scored on all.
3rd and 9 - 17 yards
3rd and 8 - 10 yards
3rd and 3 - 4 yards
3rd and 9 - 5 yards (the one stop - still got 3)
3rd and 10 - 15 yards

Anyone got the stats to compare a Bill Cowher 10+ point lead to a Mike Tomlin 10+ point lead?

phillyesq
09-24-2012, 10:04 AM
Couple of points:

1. The Offense fumbled 4 times and lost 2.

2. Ryan Clark got a turnover to start the game which lead to an easy 7.

3. Officiating turned a Oakland 4th and 2 into a 1st and goal inside the 5. That's another 4 points for Oakland.

4. ST gave up yards. Including a horrible punt. And holds on a return for a TD that cost us some points.

5. The O didn't score TDs in the 4th quarter.

We can blame the defense, but who didn't see this coming? The problem on D for years has been the inability to generate pressure on opposing QBs.

But yesterday's loss isn't all on our D. They have their issues. But we still would have won this game if the O and ST played better.

We have a long time to work this out. No one hands out Lombardi's yet.

Great post, Flippy.

SidSmythe
09-24-2012, 10:34 AM
FLASTEEL obviously missed the Tim Lewis Defenses ...they give up 3rd and 15's like they were 3rd & 3's

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 10:36 AM
Anyone got the stats to compare a Bill Cowher 10+ point lead to a Mike Tomlin 10+ point lead?

It's actually an 11+ lead where Bill had only 1 loss...

Mister Pittsburgh
09-24-2012, 11:26 AM
Pittsburgh Steelers

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2012 1 1 24 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
* 2 2 24 56 Mike Adams T Ohio State
* 3 3 23 86 Sean Spence LB Miami (FL)
* 4 4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu DT Washington
* 5 5 24 159 Chris Rainey RB Florida
* 6 7 24 231 Toney Clemons WR Colorado
* 7 7 33 240 David Paulson TE Oregon
* 8 7 39 246 Terrence Frederick DB Texas A&M
* 9 7 41 248 Kelvin Beachum T Southern Methodist
2011 1 1 31 31 Cameron Hayward DE Ohio State
* 2 2 31 63 Marcus Gilbert T Florida
* 3 3 31 95 Curtis Brown DB Texas
* 4 4 31 128 Cortez Allen DB Citadel
* 5 5 31 162 Chris Carter LB Fresno State
* 6 6 31 196 Keith Williams G Nebraska
* 7 7 29 232 Baron Batch RB Texas Tech
2010 1 1 18 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
* 2 2 20 52 Jason Worilds LB Virginia Tech
* 3 3 18 82 Emmanuel Sanders WR Southern Methodist
* 4 4 18 116 Thaddeus Gibson LB Ohio State
* 5 5 20 151 Chris Scott G Tennessee
* 6 5 33 164 Crezdon Butler DB Clemson
* 7 5 35 166 Stevenson Sylvester LB Utah
* 8 6 19 188 Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech
* 9 6 26 195 Antonio Brown WR Central Michigan
* 10 7 35 242 Doug Worthington DE Ohio State
2009 1 1 32 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
* 2 3 15 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
* 3 3 20 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
* 4 3 32 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
* 5 5 32 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
* 6 5 33 169 Frank Summers RB UNLV
* 7 6 32 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
* 8 7 17 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
* 9 7 32 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State
2008 1 1 23 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
* 2 2 22 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas
* 3 3 25 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA
* 4 4 31 130 Tony Hills T Texas
* 5 5 21 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon
* 6 6 22 188 Mike Humpal LB Iowa
* 7 6 28 194 Ryan Mundy DB West Virginia
2007 1 1 15 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
* 2 2 14 46 LaMarr Woodley DE Michigan
* 3 3 13 77 Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota
* 4 4 13 112 Daniel Sepulveda P Baylor
* 5 4 33 132 Ryan McBean DE Oklahoma State
* 6 5 19 156 Cameron Stephenson G Rutgers
* 7 5 33 170 William Gay DB Louisville
*
Tomlin's drafts are poor. When it came time to replace Cowher's players he has been unable to do it with equal talent...so now we are playing weaker players or had to bring back players.

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2012 1 1 24 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
* 2 2 24 56 Mike Adams T Ohio State
* 3 3 23 86 Sean Spence LB Miami (FL)
* 4 4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu DT Washington
* 5 5 24 159 Chris Rainey RB Florida
* 6 7 24 231 Toney Clemons WR Colorado
* 7 7 33 240 David Paulson TE Oregon
* 8 7 39 246 Terrence Frederick DB Texas A&M
* 9 7 41 248 Kelvin Beachum T Southern Methodist
2011 1 1 31 31 Cameron Hayward DE Ohio State
* 2 2 31 63 Marcus Gilbert T Florida
* 3 3 31 95 Curtis Brown DB Texas
* 4 4 31 128 Cortez Allen DB Citadel
* 5 5 31 162 Chris Carter LB Fresno State
* 6 6 31 196 Keith Williams G Nebraska
* 7 7 29 232 Baron Batch RB Texas Tech
2010 1 1 18 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
* 2 2 20 52 Jason Worilds LB Virginia Tech
* 3 3 18 82 Emmanuel Sanders WR Southern Methodist
* 4 4 18 116 Thaddeus Gibson LB Ohio State
* 5 5 20 151 Chris Scott G Tennessee
* 6 5 33 164 Crezdon Butler DB Clemson
* 7 5 35 166 Stevenson Sylvester LB Utah
* 8 6 19 188 Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech
* 9 6 26 195 Antonio Brown WR Central Michigan
* 10 7 35 242 Doug Worthington DE Ohio State
2009 1 1 32 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
* 2 3 15 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
* 3 3 20 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
* 4 3 32 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
* 5 5 32 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
* 6 5 33 169 Frank Summers RB UNLV
* 7 6 32 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
* 8 7 17 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
* 9 7 32 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State
2008 1 1 23 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
* 2 2 22 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas
* 3 3 25 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA
* 4 4 31 130 Tony Hills T Texas
* 5 5 21 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon
* 6 6 22 188 Mike Humpal LB Iowa
* 7 6 28 194 Ryan Mundy DB West Virginia
2007 1 1 15 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
* 2 2 14 46 LaMarr Woodley DE Michigan
* 3 3 13 77 Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota
* 4 4 13 112 Daniel Sepulveda P Baylor
* 5 4 33 132 Ryan McBean DE Oklahoma State
* 6 5 19 156 Cameron Stephenson G Rutgers
* 7 5 33 170 William Gay DB Louisville
*
Tomlin's drafts are poor. When it came time to replace Cowher's players he has been unable to do it with equal talent...so now we are playing weaker players or had to bring back players.

Here I thought Colbert was in charge of the draft but now it's all Tomlin's fault and good 'ol Bill Cowher will make it all better. Maybe it is the fault of the coordinators whose job it is to coach and design an offense and defense that maximizes the ability of the players he has. Arians failed and was replaced with positive results so far, LeBeau is failing and.... Well and we keep hearing it's someone else's fault.

Maybe you could compare the results above to the rest of the NFL and then clearly show how well all other 31 teams do compared to the Steelers.

steelz09
09-24-2012, 01:54 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2012 1 1 24 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
* 2 2 24 56 Mike Adams T Ohio State
* 3 3 23 86 Sean Spence LB Miami (FL)
* 4 4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu DT Washington
* 5 5 24 159 Chris Rainey RB Florida
* 6 7 24 231 Toney Clemons WR Colorado
* 7 7 33 240 David Paulson TE Oregon
* 8 7 39 246 Terrence Frederick DB Texas A&M
* 9 7 41 248 Kelvin Beachum T Southern Methodist
2011 1 1 31 31 Cameron Hayward DE Ohio State
* 2 2 31 63 Marcus Gilbert T Florida
* 3 3 31 95 Curtis Brown DB Texas
* 4 4 31 128 Cortez Allen DB Citadel
* 5 5 31 162 Chris Carter LB Fresno State
* 6 6 31 196 Keith Williams G Nebraska
* 7 7 29 232 Baron Batch RB Texas Tech
2010 1 1 18 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
* 2 2 20 52 Jason Worilds LB Virginia Tech
* 3 3 18 82 Emmanuel Sanders WR Southern Methodist
* 4 4 18 116 Thaddeus Gibson LB Ohio State
* 5 5 20 151 Chris Scott G Tennessee
* 6 5 33 164 Crezdon Butler DB Clemson
* 7 5 35 166 Stevenson Sylvester LB Utah
* 8 6 19 188 Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech
* 9 6 26 195 Antonio Brown WR Central Michigan
* 10 7 35 242 Doug Worthington DE Ohio State
2009 1 1 32 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
* 2 3 15 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
* 3 3 20 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
* 4 3 32 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
* 5 5 32 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
* 6 5 33 169 Frank Summers RB UNLV
* 7 6 32 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
* 8 7 17 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
* 9 7 32 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State
2008 1 1 23 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
* 2 2 22 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas
* 3 3 25 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA
* 4 4 31 130 Tony Hills T Texas
* 5 5 21 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon
* 6 6 22 188 Mike Humpal LB Iowa
* 7 6 28 194 Ryan Mundy DB West Virginia
2007 1 1 15 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
* 2 2 14 46 LaMarr Woodley DE Michigan
* 3 3 13 77 Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota
* 4 4 13 112 Daniel Sepulveda P Baylor
* 5 4 33 132 Ryan McBean DE Oklahoma State
* 6 5 19 156 Cameron Stephenson G Rutgers
* 7 5 33 170 William Gay DB Louisville
*
Tomlin's drafts are poor. When it came time to replace Cowher's players he has been unable to do it with equal talent...so now we are playing weaker players or had to bring back players.

I said this last week or possibly the week before last. I would clarify one thing. Tomlin AND Colbert have been poor in replacing our DEFENSIVE talent. On offense, Tomlin and Colbert have been solid... especially at WR.

Looking at those picks and looking at our current defensive starters... it's obvious. There will be many though that fail to recognize or criticize the drafting and development of defensive talent.

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 02:01 PM
I said this last week or possibly the week before last. I would clarify one thing. Tomlin AND Colbert have been poor in replacing our DEFENSIVE talent. On offense, Tomlin and Colbert have been solid... especially at WR.

Looking at those picks and looking at our current defensive starters... it's obvious. There will be many though that fail to recognize or criticize the drafting and development of defensive talent.

Maybe that is because they have been spending all their money RETAINING LeBeau's boys, e.g. Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, Timmons, etc. Why do you need replacements in the draft when you are spending huge dollars keeping who you have?

steelz09
09-24-2012, 02:07 PM
Here I thought Colbert was in charge of the draft but now it's all Tomlin's fault and good 'ol Bill Cowher will make it all better. Maybe it is the fault of the coordinators whose job it is to coach and design an offense and defense that maximizes the ability of the players he has. Arians failed and was replaced with positive results so far, LeBeau is failing and.... Well and we keep hearing it's someone else's fault.

Maybe you could compare the results above to the rest of the NFL and then clearly show how well all other 31 teams do compared to the Steelers.

You don't think the HC has any say in the draft? I highly doubt that. It was well known that Cowher had a lot of "say" in drafts. The bottom line is that the HC always gets the heat regardless of whether it's 100% his fault or not. That is nature of being a HC. If he is not happy with his DC's play calling and development of young talent then Tomlin needs to make a change.

I don't want to compare the Steelers defensive player development with 31 other teams. As far as I'm concerned, the Pittsburgh Steelers defense has a higher standard.. That is based on the history of this franchise and the defensive tradition. It's what we come to expect.

We can keep making excuses but the bottom line is that this defense is not good. I'm particularly disappointed with our DL and LBs.

steelz09
09-24-2012, 02:09 PM
Maybe that is because they have been spending all their money RETAINING LeBeau's boys, e.g. Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, Timmons, etc. Why do you need replacements in the draft when you are spending huge dollars keeping who you have?

You don't need huge money to draft and develop mid round, late round, or UFAs.

flippy
09-24-2012, 02:16 PM
I'd still be in favor of trying to bring in Eric Mangini to replace Lebeau. I think he had some good drafts in Cleveland and NYJ. He made a quick positive impact in both places. He is the SOB that left us with Timmons instead of Revis so I hate him, but I'd still take him.

I think there's a lot of value in the ex-HCs that no one wants any more. These guys usually got to be a HC because they're a great coordinator. Then once they fail as a HC, it kills their aspirations and makes them a perfect long term OC or DC. And probably a good one to boot.

lloydroid
09-24-2012, 02:36 PM
Yea know, this D is 1 year removed from being #1 in the entire NFL. What has changed? 1.) No Troy. 2.) No Harrison. 3.) They are a year older. 4.) No Farrior (No one mentions that. Not saying they should have brought him back at 36 but he was one of the main leaders on the team.) If we get Harrison and Troy,back 90% (That's a big if) then maybe they will go back to being a top D. Also, other than the big TD rush from McFadden, the D was solid at the beginning of the game, and, the O f---d up by not getting more of a lead when things were all going their way. I started screaming at the TV, saying "You are letting them stay in the game, you are keeping it close again!" They should have destroyed them and it shouldn't have been a game. Even Miami was able to blow these clowns out.

This is a pretty disgusting loss though. It does remind me of 2009.

Oh, and let's not forget. Yes the D was pathetic, but we still can't rush the ball to save our lives. That is a major part of the problem. How could they NOT found a way to create a better rushing game? That has me as p-ssed off as does the D. Over all, this is just not a very good team, all things considered.

phillyesq
09-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Maybe that is because they have been spending all their money RETAINING LeBeau's boys, e.g. Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley, Timmons, etc. Why do you need replacements in the draft when you are spending huge dollars keeping who you have?

What about the draft efforts to replace Smith and Keisel? Ziggy showed flashes early, but if he was replaced now with Nick Eason, I'm not sure there would be much of a dropoff. Cam is still earlier in his development, but the Ziggy Hood is looking worse by the day.

Flasteel
09-24-2012, 03:02 PM
FLASTEEL obviously missed the Tim Lewis Defenses ...they give up 3rd and 15's like they were 3rd & 3's
I've missed exactly 1 game since the 1989 season and have been a fan since the early 70's. I saw the Tim Lewis defenses and those of the mid-to late '80's, which were not up to our standards. Granted, the putrid nature of our current defense is far more fresh in my mind, but I don't remember this complete lack of faith in all aspects of the game. I have zero confidence in this defense to stop anyone at this point. Zero.

I can only hope that Harrison and Polamalu can come back and be not only a spark, but allow LeBeau to play a more attacking style. If not, it will be a long season.