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View Full Version : Did Tomlin Fire LeBeau by going for it on that 4th down on our own 20 at the end of ?



SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-23-2012, 08:33 PM
... at the end of the game? Not literally of course, but effectively?

I was thinking during the time out, that if he went for it he would be declaring - "I have LESS THAN ZERO confidence in your defense, so I will do my best to not let them on the field, even if it means giving the other team the ball within field goal range in a tie game with almost no time left on the clock".

That is pretty much giving him LeBeau his family jewels back in a brown paper bag, IMO.

Thoughts?

pittpete
09-23-2012, 08:38 PM
Lebeau may have had a senior moment today.

winwithd
09-23-2012, 08:41 PM
Wasnt that the same thing he did against Green Bay two years ago? I think he tried an onside kick because we werent stopping them either. That one we won 36-35 on the last play of the game on a pass to Wallace. LeBeau didnt get fired for that one.

Steelgal
09-23-2012, 08:42 PM
I agree. If he was willing to go for it on 4th and 1, why not go for it on 4th and 9??? There was NO reason to believe the defense could stop them. Leave it in your offense's hands and let them try to win it. Yes, it's much further to go, but our defense was terrible today.

Jigawatts
09-23-2012, 08:45 PM
Great call. The Raiders could have scored from the upper deck today

Oviedo
09-23-2012, 08:45 PM
Lebeau may have had a senior moment today.

Nothing that anyone couldn't have seen coming for the past couple of seasons if they just wanted to look. What happened today is how we lose. Zero pressure and lots of short completions.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-23-2012, 08:46 PM
Wasnt that the same thing he did against Green Bay two years ago? I think he tried an onside kick because we werent stopping them either. That one we won 36-35 on the last play of the game on a pass to Wallace. LeBeau didnt get fired for that one.

Good point, winwithd, though I have to admit I don't remember that specifically ("It's De River ... it's De Nile"). But that was against the World Caliber Packers. This was against Carson Friggin' Palmer and the Rayduhhs. But good point, nonetheless ... uggh.

Is that also the same call Bellicheat made a few years ago against the Ravens?

SteelBucks
09-23-2012, 08:47 PM
I think it was more of his lack of confidence in the players than LeBeau.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 08:47 PM
I agree. If he was willing to go for it on 4th and 1, why not go for it on 4th and 9??? There was NO reason to believe the defense could stop them. Leave it in your offense's hands and let them try to win it. Yes, it's much further to go, but our defense was terrible today.

It was 4th and inches. The chances on making inches are considerably higher than making a 4th and 9

Oviedo
09-23-2012, 08:50 PM
I think it was more of his lack of confidence in the players than LeBeau.

Isn't the coordinator responsible for what the players do? Isn't that what heard about Arians for the past three years until they rightfully got rid of him? Got rid of one too few coordinators.

birtikidis
09-23-2012, 08:58 PM
I think he was thinking that if we don't get it, Oakland scores and gives us a lot of time to score. If they dont, then we drive down and score. Bc Oakland couldn't stop us. Unless we fumble of course. It was great to see Ben take a sack in he last two minutes though.

DukieBoy
09-23-2012, 09:06 PM
I had to go to the bar to watch the game on TV without game audio (great classic rock though, the whole game; man, I missed chat). What I saw was that we lost this game due to our own failures, as follows:

1 Ryan Mundy is two days late and four dollars short on most plays. He may know the defense as well as Stven Hawling knows physics, but he also plays at a physical level closer to Steven Hawkings.

2. The defense played to not lost in the 4th Qtr, so they lost.

3."Special" Teams. Sushi, kick the football out of the EZ every time, because your ST coverage is poor.

4. "Special" Teams. Stupid undisciplined penalties, over and over and over again, all year preseason and season so far. Cost us a TD today. That TD would have changed the game permanently in our favor.

5. Defense. Not nearly enough pressure on the QB. Cornholio had enough time to cook his own hot dogs back there, esp late in the game.

6. Fumbles. Bad fumbles. 27 and 84.

7. Penalties. "Special" Teams and the OL (no excuses 77 and 74). And the secondary (esp Ike) is guilty too.

8. Coaching. Why are these mistakes continuing to happen, over and over and over again? Coaching has not corrected mistakes that have been happening from preseason on.



Ben played great, 36 for 49, 384 yds 4 TDs, NO int's. Heath played great. Max was big most of the game.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-23-2012, 09:14 PM
I had to go to the bar to watch the game on TV without game audio (great classic rock though, the whole game; man, I missed chat). What I saw was that we lost this game due to our own failures, as follows:

1 Ryan Mundy is two days late and four dollars short on most plays. He may know the defense as well as Stven Hawling knows physics, but he also plays at a physical level closer to Steven Hawkings.

2. The defense played to not lost in the 4th Qtr, so they lost.

3."Special" Teams. Sushi, kick the football out of the EZ every time, because your ST coverage is poor.

4. "Special" Teams. Stupid undisciplined penalties, over and over and over again, all year preseason and season so far. Cost us a TD today. That TD would have changed the game permanently in our favor.

5. Defense. Not nearly enough pressure on the QB. Cornholio had enough time to cook his own hot dogs back there, esp late in the game.

6. Fumbles. Bad fumbles. 27 and 84.

7. Penalties. "Special" Teams and the OL (no excuses 77 and 74). And the secondary (esp Ike) is guilty too.

8. Coaching. Why are these mistakes continuing to happen, over and over and over again? Coaching has not corrected mistakes that have been happening from preseason on.



Ben played great, 36 for 49, 384 yds 4 TDs, NO int's. Heath played great. Max was big most of the game.



Agree with above. Where is that Wm. Gay dude ... is he signed anywhere? What state are we in where the guys we kept make us pine for the guy(s) we let go like they were Norwegian Fjords or something?

SteelBucks
09-23-2012, 09:21 PM
Isn't the coordinator responsible for what the players do? Isn't that what heard about Arians for the past three years until they rightfully got rid of him? Got rid of one too few coordinators.

You're ignoring talent. We can debate in circles about this but the bottom line is the team blew this one...coaches and players.

phillyesq
09-23-2012, 09:23 PM
Isn't the coordinator responsible for what the players do? Isn't that what heard about Arians for the past three years until they rightfully got rid of him? Got rid of one too few coordinators.

As a coordinator, especially with respect to the pass rushers, you want to try to create a favorable matchup. Nobody won their matchups today.

Shoe
09-24-2012, 12:12 AM
As a coordinator, especially with respect to the pass rushers, you want to try to create a favorable matchup. Nobody won their matchups today.

It's hard for a guy like Woodley, when they can focus on him as the only guy worth blocking. They probably ran 3/4 of their plays away from him. Hood is a freakn bum. Hampton is a steaming pile of dinosaur poo. Keisel is too worried about his Head n Shoulders endorsement deal (i.e. his beard)... Chris Carter is a frekn bum.

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 08:01 AM
It's hard for a guy like Woodley, when they can focus on him as the only guy worth blocking. They probably ran 3/4 of their plays away from him. Hood is a freakn bum. Hampton is a steaming pile of dinosaur poo. Keisel is too worried about his Head n Shoulders endorsement deal (i.e. his beard)... Chris Carter is a frekn bum.

And who scouted, coached and developed these all of sudden terrible players? Weren't these the same players on the defense that had that so often cited #1 ranking last year? Are we so dependent on Troy P. that if he isn't there we can't be successful and if that is the case who in their right mind designs a defense around one player.

It's no accident thsat with a change in the offensive coord that ben is off to a career year start. Unfortunately the defensive players don't have that benefit of a new start and new ideas to elevate their play. Their being forced to play a defense that the entire league has figured out.

Slapstick
09-24-2012, 09:02 AM
And who scouted, coached and developed these all of sudden terrible players? Weren't these the same players on the defense that had that so often cited #1 ranking last year? Are we so dependent on Troy P. that if he isn't there we can't be successful and if that is the case who in their right mind designs a defense around one player.

It's no accident thsat with a change in the offensive coord that ben is off to a career year start. Unfortunately the defensive players don't have that benefit of a new start and new ideas to elevate their play. Their being forced to play a defense that the entire league has figured out.

When you field a defense without 2 DPsOY, you tend to be found lacking...

stopplayn
09-24-2012, 09:09 AM
And who scouted, coached and developed these all of sudden terrible players? Weren't these the same players on the defense that had that so often cited #1 ranking last year? Are we so dependent on Troy P. that if he isn't there we can't be successful and if that is the case who in their right mind designs a defense around one player.

It's no accident thsat with a change in the offensive coord that ben is off to a career year start. Unfortunately the defensive players don't have that benefit of a new start and new ideas to elevate their play. Their being forced to play a defense that the entire league has figured out.

Ben has not faced a good defense as of yet so dont get carried away with his stats vs horrible teams. Ben always plays well vs bad defenses. He has made a career of it. Has nothing to do with a new OC. Ben Threw for 5 TDS last season vs the Titans with Arians. His 500 game was with Arians. His 32 TD season in 07 was with Arians (easy schedule). Oh by the way, Arians is doing well with a ROOKIE in Indy, so again, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

It just makes it crystal clear who our best player is. TROY POLAMALU. We win without Ben

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 09:11 AM
When you field a defense without 2 DPsOY, you tend to be found lacking...

Do you think either of those players will ever be DPOY again. That is why you adjust, you move on and you change. Unfortunately that is a concept totally lost with regards to our defense. The solution is just wait for Harrison and Troy and all will be well. Do you really buy that?

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 09:51 AM
And who scouted, coached and developed these all of sudden terrible players? Weren't these the same players on the defense that had that so often cited #1 ranking last year? Are we so dependent on Troy P. that if he isn't there we can't be successful and if that is the case who in their right mind designs a defense around one player.

It's no accident thsat with a change in the offensive coord that ben is off to a career year start. Unfortunately the defensive players don't have that benefit of a new start and new ideas to elevate their play. Their being forced to play a defense that the entire league has figured out.

They aren't being forced... the players love Lebeau just like Ben loved Arians. This is why he needs to go. I love Lebeau but it's obvious his scheme isn't gelling with our talent or lack thereof.

I think we are drafting too many projects that would look good in our scheme 5 years ago but with all the changes by offenses we need the best players available. I'm watching other players break on the ball, actually touch the ball, knock it down. All of our DB's are chasing guys 3 yards away... usually you will see a defenses sniff out at least one pass play a game. Not us... we can go 2 or 3 games without our DB's knocking down a ball or sacking a QB.

We were #1 on paper but Tebow showed how good our #1 really is IMO...

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 10:14 AM
They aren't being forced... the players love Lebeau just like Ben loved Arians. This is why he needs to go. I love Lebeau but it's obvious his scheme isn't gelling with our talent or lack thereof.

I think we are drafting too many projects that would look good in our scheme 5 years ago but with all the changes by offenses we need the best players available. I'm watching other players break on the ball, actually touch the ball, knock it down. All of our DB's are chasing guys 3 yards away... usually you will see a defenses sniff out at least one pass play a game. Not us... we can go 2 or 3 games without our DB's knocking down a ball or sacking a QB.

We were #1 on paper but Tebow showed how good our #1 really is IMO...

You are singing to the choir brother!!!!!!!

Too many projects and conversion efforts to fit a scheme that is stale and unimaginative. It works gainst bad, inexperienced QBs but decent QBs know what is coming.

phillyesq
09-24-2012, 10:20 AM
It's hard for a guy like Woodley, when they can focus on him as the only guy worth blocking. They probably ran 3/4 of their plays away from him. Hood is a freakn bum. Hampton is a steaming pile of dinosaur poo. Keisel is too worried about his Head n Shoulders endorsement deal (i.e. his beard)... Chris Carter is a frekn bum.

Even Woodley was matched up against a replacement at RT. He had a sack early, but nothing late.

I don't know why Ziggy Hood stays in the game in passing situations. If he is truly the best the Steelers have, they are in a lot of trouble. He has been terrible.

We saw Timmons again get beat in coverage by a no name TE. Being close isn't good enough. He is not dynamic at all and may provide the worst value for his salary of anybody on the team.

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 10:44 AM
Even Woodley was matched up against a replacement at RT. He had a sack early, but nothing late.

I don't know why Ziggy Hood stays in the game in passing situations. If he is truly the best the Steelers have, they are in a lot of trouble. He has been terrible.

We saw Timmons again get beat in coverage by a no name TE. Being close isn't good enough. He is not dynamic at all and may provide the worst value for his salary of anybody on the team.

Timmons used to be a freak running from sideline to sideline... now he is too big to cover anyone because he bulked up to play ILB.

phillyesq
09-24-2012, 11:33 AM
Timmons used to be a freak running from sideline to sideline... now he is too big to cover anyone because he bulked up to play ILB.

He's too big to cover anyone but he isn't doing anything productive with the bulk, either. You don't see him bowling over backs in pass coverage or blowing up the run game.

I think he's actually been outplayed by Foote this year.

feltdizz
09-24-2012, 03:03 PM
I predicted big things for Timmons... but I predicted these things with the impression he would be the same size and have the same speed.

Oviedo
09-24-2012, 03:08 PM
I predicted big things for Timmons... but I predicted these things with the impression he would be the same size and have the same speed.

Me too. He was the classic 4-3 OLB and came in and just added too much weight to "be strong at the point of attack" It took away what made him different. I remeber two camps ago when they reported he was running stride for stride with WRs.

Ghost
09-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Me too. He was the classic 4-3 OLB and came in and just added too much weight to "be strong at the point of attack" It took away what made him different. I remeber two camps ago when they reported he was running stride for stride with WRs.

I have to believe that was done at the coaches request or at a minimum their blessing, right? He didn't just decide on his own to bulk up to the point of losing his coverage skills? I can't say as I blame him if he getting swallowed up and beat on as an ILB, which is not where his best talents would be.

Steelerphile
09-24-2012, 05:17 PM
I don't think Timmons looks overweight to me. He looks normal weight. I don't think his weight is an issue. His burst is gone. The one he flashed in his first few seasons. That made me think, he would be special. I don't see anything like that from him anymore. The little bit of weight he may have gained should not have totally zapped away his acceleration. Levon Kirkland had acceleration when he was 280. Timmons is not a hardnosed player. He does not have intensity. He looks very relaxed on the field much of the time. It's about will and desire and the linebackers have got to step up and lead the way. Foote is doing the best he can. Woodley has good moments but Carter is not adding anything to the picture.

steelz09
09-24-2012, 08:50 PM
Is that Tomlin's way of firing his DC? He could always ask the Rooneys to do it like he did with Arians. lol :stirpot

Oviedo
09-25-2012, 08:12 AM
Is that Tomlin's way of firing his DC? He could always ask the Rooneys to do it like he did with Arians. lol :stirpot


I said at the end of last season that both Coordinators needed to go. So far this season it is clear that we came up one short on the number of "pink slips" handed out.