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lloydroid
09-22-2012, 02:48 PM
Do you ever find yourself watching a game, and watching a team's offensive execution and wonder why the Steelers can't run successful rushing and screen plays like other teams can? I was watching the Giants' game, and they ran this beautiful screen play, where their entire O line ended up blocking for the running back getting the ball. It was a thing of beauty. Also, NYG run some sweet rushing plays, where the blocks are so spot on, giving the running back clean holes. Same thing for SF - Gore and Hunter have some sweet holes to run through on a consistent basis. The Bills have some really well done rushing plays. They make their blocks. As a matter of fact, the Steelers are a pathetic 30th in rushing yards in the NFL. 30th? Are you serious. What in the Sam Hill is going on? It's not from lack of trying to rush the ball.

So which is more to blame? Is Coughlin and his staff just that much better coaches than we have? Are our OLmen just incapable of moving and blocking than are the vast majority of the rest of the league's OLmen? This is a problem. If we can't get this fixed, we aren't going any where after the regular season. And the "eye test" and the actual stats tell the same story: Pgh can't rush the ball with any real effectiveness. And I don't care how many tight ends they put on the field; our rushing game is pathetic. 30th in the NFL, and make no mistake: unlike some other teams, we absolutely __CARE__ and FOCUS on trying to get the rush going. But it doesn't seem to matter. We just suck at rushing the ball and it's frustrating to watch when they try.

stopplayn
09-22-2012, 02:52 PM
It was the same way in the Wiz era when our line was exceptional. Our excecution is raggedy because of the play of our unconventional Qb.

Ben's style is sloppy and the exectution mirrors his style. The offense looks TOTALY different when Leftwich, Batch or Dixon are in there.

No, I am not saying that Batch and Leftwich are better than Ben. They are just smarter. Makes a difference

hawaiiansteel
09-22-2012, 03:10 PM
The offense looks TOTALY different when Leftwich, Batch or Dixon are in there.


you're absolutely right, the offense looks way worse when Leftwich, Batch and Dixon are/were in there.

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 03:21 PM
It was the same way in the Wiz era when our line was exceptional. Our excecution is raggedy because of the play of our unconventional Qb.

Ben's style is sloppy and the exectution mirrors his style. The offense looks TOTALY different when Leftwich, Batch or Dixon are in there.

No, I am not saying that Batch and Leftwich are better than Ben. They are just smarter. Makes a difference

I can see your point on passing plays, but how could Ben impact the rush blocking and screen play blocking by "being sloppy?" I am not sure I understand. For a team that highly values rushing the ball, and spent much of the offseason trying to rectify and improve it, we are 30th in the F-ing league at rushing the ball. And the simple eye test tells you that this team just sucks at rushing the ball and using screens. What did we bring Haley here for? Why did we use the 1st two drafts, and on later, on getting better O-linemen in here? And to further understand how confusing our lack of rushing is, we even have big downfield threats in Wallace and Brown and Sanders and we _STILL_ can't find ways to find any success with our rush.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

The Bills and Fins are destroying our rushing numbers and each have little threats in their WR to make the defense have to back off their safeties (Bills have Stevie Johnson but who else?). Teams like Cleveland, the Colts, AZ and GB are out-rushing us. Dear God. There is just something very wrong with that. I will give Cowher that much: At least he had this team with a very strong running game almost every single season. Why can't this team run the ball since Tomlin has been here? We shipped out Arians, but little has changed.

stopplayn
09-22-2012, 03:45 PM
you're absolutely right, the offense looks way worse when Leftwich, Batch and Dixon are/were in there.

Is that why Leftwich outplayed Ben in 08? Is that Why Ben could do nothing vs the Skins and Leftwich came in and saved the day. It was a sack fest under Ben. He leaves at half and we look like a totally new team. What happened? What changed? ONE MAN. The Qb
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80c35720/WK-9-Byron-Leftwich-highlights

Same thing happened vs Browns (Ben carted off after a sack fest and a redzone pick) enter Leftwich and we look like a new team. Again, Leftwich is NOT BETTER THAN BEN. Just smarter.

Big Bens 1st super bowl: 9-21, 123 yds, 2 ints & .22.1 qb rating
Big Bens 2nd super bowl: 21-30, 256 yds, 1 td, 1 int & 93.2 qb rating
Bib Bens 3rd super bowl 20-40 263 yds 2 td 2 ints 77.4 qb rating
3 TDS and 5 INTS AND A 64.2 QB RATING.

This is the problem, he's a very good quarterback. Unfortunately, lazy morons like to look at a team achievement (championships) as a measure of a player's greatness. The word "overrated" doesn't mean the guy sucks, it means he gets way more credit than he deserves. See how we got to the SB vs the Packers. Again, Ben had a 30 qb rating and got to go to the Super Bowl based on his TEAMMATES holding down the fort.

stopplayn
09-22-2012, 03:52 PM
I can see your point on passing plays, but how could Ben impact the rush blocking and screen play blocking by "being sloppy?" I am not sure I understand. For a team that highly values rushing the ball, and spent much of the offseason trying to rectify and improve it, we are 30th in the F-ing league at rushing the ball. And the simple eye test tells you that this team just sucks at rushing the ball and using screens. What did we bring Haley here for? Why did we use the 1st two drafts, and on later, on getting better O-linemen in here? And to further understand how confusing our lack of rushing is, we even have big downfield threats in Wallace and Brown and Sanders and we _STILL_ can't find ways to find any success with our rush.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

The Bills and Fins are destroying our rushing numbers and each have little threats in their WR to make the defense have to back off their safeties (Bills have Stevie Johnson but who else?). Teams like Cleveland, the Colts, AZ and GB are out-rushing us. Dear God. There is just something very wrong with that. I will give Cowher that much: At least he had this team with a very strong running game almost every single season. Why can't this team run the ball since Tomlin has been here? We shipped out Arians, but little has changed.

Because a screen is all about execution. If you let the ball go too early then the lineman arent in place to set blocks. Too late and the same thing. The quarterback has to lull the Defense to sleep and make them think that its a pass. If the execution by the quarterback is compromised then the play will too. We havent been a good screen team since before Ben came. Why is that? In NINE years? Screens work when Batch, Leftwich and Dixon are in. Ben is not a fundamentally sound quarterback. All of his mechanics are off. Ben is a gamer due to his physical gifts. Size, Strength, Arm, ability to extend plays. But you would be hard pressed to find ANY expert or coach describe him as cerebral.

Lastly, not ONE coach will teach his young quarterbacks to play like Ben Roethlisberger. He does most things the wrong way. He is successful on the Steelers. On a lesser team and he is a trainwreck

stopplayn
09-22-2012, 03:54 PM
I can see your point on passing plays, but how could Ben impact the rush blocking and screen play blocking by "being sloppy?" I am not sure I understand. For a team that highly values rushing the ball, and spent much of the offseason trying to rectify and improve it, we are 30th in the F-ing league at rushing the ball. And the simple eye test tells you that this team just sucks at rushing the ball and using screens. What did we bring Haley here for? Why did we use the 1st two drafts, and on later, on getting better O-linemen in here? And to further understand how confusing our lack of rushing is, we even have big downfield threats in Wallace and Brown and Sanders and we _STILL_ can't find ways to find any success with our rush.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

The Bills and Fins are destroying our rushing numbers and each have little threats in their WR to make the defense have to back off their safeties (Bills have Stevie Johnson but who else?). Teams like Cleveland, the Colts, AZ and GB are out-rushing us. Dear God. There is just something very wrong with that. I will give Cowher that much: At least he had this team with a very strong running game almost every single season. Why can't this team run the ball since Tomlin has been here? We shipped out Arians, but little has changed.

Nothing has changed? Uh..Maybe our STARTING RB is injured and those other teams you compared to us have their starter.

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 04:01 PM
Nothing has changed? Uh..Maybe our STARTING RB is injured and those other teams you compared to us have their starter.

Do you not __watch__ our games? There are zero holes for any backs to run through. If there are no holes and no execution on things like screens, no RB is really going to do that well. And, you are flat out wrong: The Buffalo Bills do NOT have their starting RB playing. Their starter is Fred Jackson and he has been hurt all year. It is the back up, Spiller, who is dropping mad rushing yards each week, not Jackson.

BURGH86STEEL
09-22-2012, 04:07 PM
Games generally boil down to execution.

stopplayn
09-22-2012, 05:13 PM
Do you not __watch__ our games? There are zero holes for any backs to run through. If there are no holes and no execution on things like screens, no RB is really going to do that well. And, you are flat out wrong: The Buffalo Bills do NOT have their starting RB playing. Their starter is Fred Jackson and he has been hurt all year. It is the back up, Spiller, who is dropping mad rushing yards each week, not Jackson.

Fred Jackson is basically a backup himself. Certainly not Rashard Mendenhall. Do you see that there is no falloff in production now that Jackson is out? As you pointed out, they are doing better without Jackson. How are the Steelers doing without Mendenhall? Running game sucks but you proved that too. Really dont see your point

stopplayn
09-22-2012, 05:19 PM
Games generally boil down to execution. Exactly!!
Brees, Both Mannings, Rivers, Brady Rodgers all have excellent execution. Is it due to them or their Coaches? The aformentioned Qbs are not executing at a high level due to coaching its due to tireless hours on the practice field and film room. Something our Qb does on occassion but he certainly is not known for his work ethic.

williar
09-22-2012, 09:28 PM
Exactly!!
Brees, Both Mannings, Rivers, Brady Rodgers all have excellent execution. Is it due to them or their Coaches? The aformentioned Qbs are not executing at a high level due to coaching its due to tireless hours on the practice field and film room. Something our Qb does on occassion but he certainly is not known for his work ethic.[/QUOTE]

:Agree:Clap:Clap:Clap

squidkid
09-23-2012, 09:59 AM
well i do know its not tomlins fault. and i also know its not kuglers fault because tomlin hired him.

Oviedo
09-23-2012, 10:24 AM
Do you ever find yourself watching a game, and watching a team's offensive execution and wonder why the Steelers can't run successful rushing and screen plays like other teams can? I was watching the Giants' game, and they ran this beautiful screen play, where their entire O line ended up blocking for the running back getting the ball. It was a thing of beauty. Also, NYG run some sweet rushing plays, where the blocks are so spot on, giving the running back clean holes. Same thing for SF - Gore and Hunter have some sweet holes to run through on a consistent basis. The Bills have some really well done rushing plays. They make their blocks. As a matter of fact, the Steelers are a pathetic 30th in rushing yards in the NFL. 30th? Are you serious. What in the Sam Hill is going on? It's not from lack of trying to rush the ball.

So which is more to blame? Is Coughlin and his staff just that much better coaches than we have? Are our OLmen just incapable of moving and blocking than are the vast majority of the rest of the league's OLmen? This is a problem. If we can't get this fixed, we aren't going any where after the regular season. And the "eye test" and the actual stats tell the same story: Pgh can't rush the ball with any real effectiveness. And I don't care how many tight ends they put on the field; our rushing game is pathetic. 30th in the NFL, and make no mistake: unlike some other teams, we absolutely __CARE__ and FOCUS on trying to get the rush going. But it doesn't seem to matter. We just suck at rushing the ball and it's frustrating to watch when they try.

We have a mediocre Offensive Line. That influences everything we do on offense. It is not a Ben issue. If anything Ben saves plays that would have a much worse outcome for a lot of QBs.

Just look at our OL

RT--young OL with potential but just in second year
RG--UDFA who wouldn't even be on the field if not for DeCastro injury. Part of the problem the past couple of years.
OC--#1 pick but this year seems to be playing worse than previous two
LG--converted OT who has played just two games in the past three years and is learning new position
LT--experienced vet coming off ACL surgery. Solid player but not Top 25% at his position.

Read through the above and you still wonder why we struggle. When we were good under Wiz we had a dominant interior of the OL. When we get that again we will be great.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 11:24 AM
An offensive line is ONLY as good as the quarterback. The Colts had (so it seemed) a dominant Oline. But what happened to that SAME line without Manning?
What we found out is that it wasnt the line, it was the QUARTERBACK. That same line looked like crap minus Manning. So was the line great or did the quarterback make that line great? Its obvious its NOT THE LINE, its about the Qbs MIND. The ability to make correct pre snap reads and get the ball out quickly is a godsend to any line.

Ben is not an anticipatory passer. Ben waits for a receiver to "show" open before he releases the ball. This hurts Ben. Elite quarterback anticipate where the receiver will be and they release the ball earlier. Ben releases it later. He is below average in regards to getting the ball out.

You guys are CRAZY if you think that Ben Roethlisberger saves the Line. Thats ludicrous. Yes, I KNOW the announcers on the TV say it but does that make it true? IF Ben Roethlisberger was so great in what he does then he would be the poster child for all young quarterbacks in clinics, camps and seminars. He is not, in fact it is the opposite. NO coach worth his weight in gold will teach a young quarterback to play like Ben. He does A LOT of things fundamentally wrong. He gets away with it because he plays for us. Thats the reality of it.

You mentioned "Under Wiz'. Under Wiz he DIDNT have a good relationship with Ben. Why? Ben is lazy, Ben is not a hard worker and he takes too many dumb sacks. We still had a sack problem despite the fact that Wiz surrounded Ben with a running game. WATCH when we play the cards this season. Wiz will BLITZ the crap out of Ben. Why? Because he KNOWS that Ben is slow to process the information quickly and thats the biggest contributing factor in all of the sacks. You mentioned Wiz, so lets look at the sacks under Wiz and compare to Bens contemporaries.

2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

As we see it is CLEAR that Ben had a sack problem under Wiz and Grimm when our line was elite. So again, its not the line, its Ben. Now lets look at the same line behind Leftwich.

Lets look at Ben vs Leftwich in 08. Same line, same personel but quite different results.

vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 yards 1 INT 3 sacks 15.1 rating

vs. Browns Leftwich 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Ben 9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating 3 sacks and injured

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating 8 sacks
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating 1 sack

The evidence is clear guys

Slapstick
09-23-2012, 04:17 PM
The evidence is clear guys

Yes, yes it is:


His regular-season record as a starter is 81-34 for a .704 winning percentage, second only to New England's Tom Brady (125-38, .767) among active NFL quarterbacks.

Also, his postseason record is 10-4 with two SB wins...

The evidence is, in fact, crystal clear...

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 04:42 PM
Correction. His postseason record is 10-3 with 20 TDS and 17 INTS.
2 SB wins with 3TDS and 5 INTS

Its CLEAR that He is not the primary reason that we win. He is a big part but not the primary one.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 04:58 PM
You are right it is 10-4. I had forgotten the loss to Tebow. smh

Slapstick
09-23-2012, 05:35 PM
Correction. His postseason record is 10-3 with 20 TDS and 17 INTS.
2 SB wins with 3TDS and 5 INTS

Its CLEAR that He is not the primary reason that we win. He is a big part but not the primary one.

Right. Because the Steelers won so many Super Bowls in the 25 years prior to drafting him...

Jooser
09-23-2012, 08:35 PM
Defense! Defense! Defense!
Poor showing today. Penalties and Turnovers continue to haunt as well. Incomplete body of work, there I said it. :wft

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 08:41 PM
So when the Defense wins TWO Super Bowls for Ben, ben gets credit. But when the Defense fails, they get blamed and Ben gets the credit still. The defense is the BEST PART OF THIS TEAM. Its about Time the offense held its own. And the Steelers won TWO Super Bowls without much contribution from the qb

Sugar
09-23-2012, 08:58 PM
So when the Defense wins TWO Super Bowls for Ben, ben gets credit. But when the Defense fails, they get blamed and Ben gets the credit still. The defense is the BEST PART OF THIS TEAM. Its about Time the offense held its own. And the Steelers won TWO Super Bowls without much contribution from the qb

If not for Ben's play during those seasons and the playoffs, the Steelers never even see either of those SB's. In THIS game, today, Ben was brilliant and the D was an affront to the Black and Gold tradition. Thankfully, we can look forward to Troy and Deebo to come back after the bye and restore some sense of competence, let alone excellence.

Steelgal
09-23-2012, 09:00 PM
So when the Defense wins TWO Super Bowls for Ben, ben gets credit. But when the Defense fails, they get blamed and Ben gets the credit still. The defense is the BEST PART OF THIS TEAM. Its about Time the offense held its own. And the Steelers won TWO Super Bowls without much contribution from the qb

Ben was terrible in the 1st SB. But his play was CRITICAL in the 3 away games leading upto it.

Last time I look, Ben drove the Steelers down the field 90 yards in under 3 minutes to win his 2nd SB. How you call that 'without much contribution for the qb" I'll never know.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 09:02 PM
If not for Ben's play during those seasons and the playoffs, the Steelers never even see either of those SB's. In THIS game, today, Ben was brilliant and the D was an affront to the Black and Gold tradition. Thankfully, we can look forward to Troy and Deebo to come back after the bye and restore some sense of competence, let alone excellence.

We win the SB without Ben. We went 13-3 with Kordell. I guess that was due to Kordells stellar play right? Pffffffffffffft

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Ben was terrible in the 1st SB. But his play was CRITICAL in the 3 away games leading upto it.

Last time I look, Ben drove the Steelers down the field 90 yards in under 3 minutes to win his 2nd SB. How you call that 'without much contribution for the qb" I'll never know.


Those passes were SHORT that Tone turned into long plays. Last I checked the star of that drive got the MVP

Sugar
09-23-2012, 09:04 PM
We win the SB without Ben. We went 13-3 with Kordell. I guess that was due to Kordells stellar play right? Pffffffffffffft

Oh, I forgot about those Kordell-led SB teams. Thanks for the reminder. Pfffffffffft yourself!

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 09:05 PM
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Eli and Peyton are all better than Ben. Name a SS better than Polamalu. Name a Olb better than Deebo (you might say Ware but you sure cant name 6). Again, the BEST players are on D.

stopplayn
09-23-2012, 09:06 PM
Oh, I forgot about those Kordell-led SB teams. Thanks for the reminder. Pfffffffffft yourself!

Ben LED us to the SB in 05? I think Bettis and the defense would disagree with you. Ben didnt even pass 300 times but HE LED us. LOL

We asked him to LEAD us vs the Pats in the AFCCG and what happened?

Steelgal
09-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Oh, I forgot about those Kordell-led SB teams. Thanks for the reminder. Pfffffffffft yourself!

Just put him on ignore. click on his name, click on profile, then ignore on the left hand side. He was in chat and doesn't EVER let stuff go. He's nothing more than a troll looking for a fight. He's not worth anyone's time.

hawaiiansteel
09-25-2012, 03:46 AM
Brett Keisel Takes Blame For Steelers Loss To Raiders

Monday, September 24th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Pittsburgh Steelers defensive end Brett Keisel took the Sunday loss to the Oakland Raiders pretty hard, and after the game he wanted all of the blame placed on his shoulders.

"The offense played great," said the Steelers defensive captain. "Like i said before, you can blame this loss on me and we'll go back to the drawing board."

When asked why he was taking the blame for the loss specifically, the defensive end said, "Because I messed up some things that resulted in touchdowns. That's why."

The two big plays that come to mind are the 64-yard touchdown run by Raiders running back Darren McFadden, which I have broken down here. The other play that comes to mind was Keisel being flagged for encroachment on the 4th down and goal play for the Raiders, where Keisel saw multiple Raiders players in motion and stepped over the line of scrimmage to point it out.

You have to tip your cap to Keisel for taking the full brunt of the loss, but make no mistake that the rest of the Steelers defense shares quite a bit of the blame. This is what good team leaders do and Keisel, along with the rest of the defense, will get a chance to redeem themselves at home in week 5 when they host the Philadelphia Eagles.

http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/brett_keisel_takes_blame_for_steelers_loss_to_raid ers/11799160

Slapstick
09-25-2012, 06:24 AM
stop feeding the troll!!!

DukieBoy
09-25-2012, 07:47 AM
According to the articles in the Trib on-line, our D is predictable. We've run the same D schemes for years, and some opposing players (e.g. Carson Palmer) seem to know them better than a few of our own players. When the Raiders put up so many points on us, and then talk abut how they did it ( by knowing our D) it seems clear to me that this is a significant part of the problem.

And I am enjoying the Ignore feature. Works well. Makes the board experience more pleasant.

Oviedo
09-25-2012, 07:54 AM
According to the articles in the Trib on-line, our D is predictable. We've run the same D schemes for years, and some opposing players (e.g. Carson Palmer) seem to know them better than a few of our own players. When the Raiders put up so many points on us, and then talk abut how they did it ( by knowing our D) it seems clear to me that this is a significant part of the problem.

And I am enjoying the Ignore feature. Works well. Makes the board experience more pleasant.

I have also invoked "Ignore" and it is much better not to see those posts.