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lloydroid
09-19-2012, 07:14 PM
Wallace did not practice. He has a pulled groin. So much for those of us who predicted this type of injury from him missing so much camp time. This is exactly the kind of thing some of us felt would likely happen. I hope it's not very severe. Groins can last for months. You can keep re-pulling it after it has felt fine for weeks. I know. I have been there.

NorthCoast
09-19-2012, 07:19 PM
why am i not surprised by this news.....

pittpete
09-19-2012, 07:29 PM
Steven Jackson and Greg Jennings have groin injuries also
Whats your point?

eniparadoxgma
09-19-2012, 07:50 PM
Groins can last for months.

hahahahaha

lloydroid
09-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Steven Jackson and Greg Jennings have groin injuries also
Whats your point?

My point? That groin and hamstring pulls are more likely when an athlete with lots of fast twitch muscle fibers enters the season with little football working out before hand. It makes them more LIKELY, it doesn't mean that those in camp can't get the same injuries. Do you understand the basic concept of logic?

Missing time means a player is more likely to experience a muscle pull. But that fact does not mean those who do go through camp won't pull a muscle. It's really not that complicated to grasp. The two are not mutually exclusive concepts.

DukieBoy
09-19-2012, 08:05 PM
hahahahaha

Eni ~ You are ON FIRE tonight !!!

:Bow:Bow:Bow

winwithd
09-19-2012, 09:05 PM
So instead of being in camp Mike was at speed camp in Florida with Mr Shaw, wasnt he? That's lots of running and working out. Isnt that the same?

D Rock
09-19-2012, 09:15 PM
He's been with the team playing full speed for what...3 weeks now?


I don't blame this on his holdout at all. These things happen.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-19-2012, 09:19 PM
I give this agenda driven thread a 3 out of 10.

pittpete
09-19-2012, 09:33 PM
Is it possible that Wallace hurt his groin muscle the same way that other players who went through camp hurt theirs?
Logically speaking though:rolleyes:

DukieBoy
09-19-2012, 09:40 PM
Is it possible that Wallace hurt his groin muscle the same way that other players who went through camp hurt theirs?
Logically speaking though:rolleyes:

You can lead a droid to logic but you can't make him think it.

hawaiiansteel
09-19-2012, 09:47 PM
Jonathan Dwyer, Marcus Gilbert, James Harrison, Heath Miller, Troy Polamalu and Emmanuel Sanders are all on the injured list too.

I was unaware that they all held out of camp also...

lloydroid
09-19-2012, 10:43 PM
So instead of being in camp Mike was at speed camp in Florida with Mr Shaw, wasnt he? That's lots of running and working out. Isnt that the same?

Actually, it is not. The ONLY way to get into football shape is to PLAY FOOTBALL. Any pro trainer will concur with this assessment.

SDSteel1
09-20-2012, 12:57 AM
Actually, it is not. The ONLY way to get into football shape is to PLAY FOOTBALL. Any pro trainer will concur with this assessment.

Would you ascertain that practicing football type drills in a football type environment, with a football against other football related people would get you into football type shape, similar to playing football? I'm sure most pro trainers would concur.

steelz09
09-20-2012, 12:59 AM
So instead of being in camp Mike was at speed camp in Florida with Mr Shaw, wasnt he? That's lots of running and working out. Isnt that the same?

No, it's not the same. Put on football pads and see if there is a difference between running in pads and running in shorts.

SDSteel1
09-20-2012, 01:06 AM
No, it's not the same. Put on football pads and see if there is a different between playing in pads and running in shorts.

Do you know whether he trained in pads or a helmet or a similar weight during his workout sessions? Most receivers wear minimal if any pads, and most speed training workouts do incorporate resistance such as weighted belts and harnesses.

steelz09
09-20-2012, 01:13 AM
Did he wear shoulder pads and a helmet? Probably not. Did he get hit? No.

Did he do resistance training? Probably.

It's not debatable though.. Anyone that has played football and especially wrestling will tell you.... You can get into good shape, lift weights, run/bike, resistance training, core training, high intensity workout, etc....

They all work but it's not the same. I've done all of the above, but the first couple weeks of football practice was always hell. 2 a days... soreness, etc. Wrestling... well, thats even worse from a conditioning perspective.

Starlifter
09-20-2012, 01:39 AM
Wallace signed the one year tender. I think he's extremely motivated to play and play well. We probably don't need him for Oakland. take advantage and come back in two weeks.

RuthlessBurgher
09-20-2012, 10:18 AM
Groins can last for months.


hahahahaha

You are supposed to consult with a doctor if they last for more than 4 hours. :p

aggiebones
09-20-2012, 11:06 AM
This is an extended holdout. Comes in plays a couple games posts solid numbers and pulls a groin to avoid real injury. We will only see him periodically the rest of the season...
He's not going to risk his career for $2.7M. It was dumb for anyone to think he would. He's played this like a punk from the beginning instead of negotiating properly. So why would ANYONE think he's going to play this season for $2.7?

And we will put the franchise tag on him no matter what. And he will hold out again next year.
He is using the exact same technique that Vincent Jackson used in SD. And it will have the same outcome.
He will lose money and the Steelers will wait time and cap space on him. But such is the way of some agents and players. But we damn sure can't let him get his way.
No way shape or form.

SDSteel1
09-20-2012, 11:15 AM
Did he wear shoulder pads and a helmet? Probably not. Did he get hit? No.

Did he do resistance training? Probably.

It's not debatable though.. Anyone that has played football and especially wrestling will tell you.... You can get into good shape, lift weights, run/bike, resistance training, core training, high intensity workout, etc....

They all work but it's not the same. I've done all of the above, but the first couple weeks of football practice was always hell. 2 a days... soreness, etc. Wrestling... well, thats even worse from a conditioning perspective.

Well guess what? I played football too, and I am also a certified trainer, and I will guarantee you that Wallace does very sport specific training to simulate real action that occurs on the football field. It's cool that you played sports at your high school but to compare your training and experience to what Mike Wallace does during his off season program is far fetched to say the least. A muscle pull is normally caused by a muscular imbalance, just looking at Wallaces running form and the way his feet angle outward like a duck when he runs it's safe to assume that the pull or strain was caused by a physiological imbalance as opposed to something football related.

Oviedo
09-20-2012, 11:26 AM
Well guess what? I played football too, and I am also a certified trainer, and I will guarantee you that Wallace does very sport specific training to simulate real action that occurs on the football field. It's cool that you played sports at your high school but to compare your training and experience to what Mike Wallace does during his off season program is far fetched to say the least. A muscle pull is normally caused by a muscular imbalance, just looking at Wallaces running form and the way his feet angle outward like a duck when he runs it's safe to assume that the pull or strain was caused by a physiological imbalance as opposed to something football related.


I was unaware that ducks could run that fast. Learn something everyday on the "Planet"

SDSteel1
09-20-2012, 11:40 AM
I was unaware that ducks could run that fast. Learn something everyday on the "Planet"

Quack, Quack, glad I could teach you something!:)

steelz09
09-20-2012, 12:34 PM
At the end of the day, the injury could happen to anyone regardless of training camp. I've been around personal trainers my whole life, workout regularly myself, I've seen these professional athlete workout routines... it's no secret.. it's not top secret information.

It's fine to train w/ personal trainers and things like that. I don't and probably never will but I understand why people do. These athletes are always looking for an edge and Tim Shaw has a good rep.

With that being said, you still need to train and prepare by practicing the sport you're about to play in realistic scenarios. That's just common sense.

Do boxers not spar?

Do Olympic swimmers not swim?

Do wrestlers not wrestle?

Do UFC athletes not fight?

Do runners not run?

I think we all know the answer to these. Football is no different.

papillon
09-20-2012, 12:39 PM
The resistance he wasn't getting in Florida was from a defender that was playing him hard and really trying to stop him from getting where he wants to go. I'm sure he had other athletes attempting to offer resistance, but they probably weren't NFL trained cornerbacks that have been playing defense their entire football lives. That's what Mike missed and no amount training can simulate the movements that you may have to make during an NFL game during a one-on-one drill in pads or without pads. You need to be getting pushed and bumped by potentially 1, 2 or 3 guys on one play. You may have to break a route off quicker than expected due a 240 pound linebacker bearing down on you. There is no way to simulate a defense that doesn't want you to go where you want go until you step on the field.

I'm sure Mike worked hard and if all he had to do was run in a straight line he may never pull a groin or hammy. Once you have to start running real routes to avoid a good NFL defender then the dynamics of what you need to do physically change and that's when strains, pulls and sprains occur.

He's injured, he may have been injured regardless of hold out, the hold out had very little to do with it, missing live football scrimmages and games probably had more to do with it than anything.

Pappy

Oviedo
09-20-2012, 01:23 PM
I will point out that while Wallace is injured and we are wondering whether he will play on the Sunday; the player that the Steelers did reward with a big contract is practicing, will play and leads the team with 11 receptions. Appears to me that they made the right investment.

Eich
09-20-2012, 01:37 PM
He's injured, he may have been injured regardless of hold out, the hold out had very little to do with it, missing live football scrimmages and games probably had more to do with it than anything.

Pappy

You lost me there a bit.... If, "missing live football scrimmages and games probably had more to do with it than anything", then didn't the hold-out have EVERYTHING to do with it?

lloydroid
09-20-2012, 02:46 PM
Well guess what? I played football too, and I am also a certified trainer, and I will guarantee you that Wallace does very sport specific training to simulate real action that occurs on the football field. It's cool that you played sports at your high school but to compare your training and experience to what Mike Wallace does during his off season program is far fetched to say the least. A muscle pull is normally caused by a muscular imbalance, just looking at Wallaces running form and the way his feet angle outward like a duck when he runs it's safe to assume that the pull or strain was caused by a physiological imbalance as opposed to something football related.

Trainers crack me up; they think they have it all figured out and then make statements like this. No training puts you in football shape other than playing football. How many times have we seen players, who are supposedly training like mad men, but not playing football, come in and get hurt? It happens all the time. Remember when Chris Johnson held out last year? He came in late and absolutely sucked since he wasn't practicing actually playing football. You cannot simulated football conditions if you are not actually practicing PLAYING football. No crack bang whiz trainer can make up for not playing football. They like to think they can (to hype up their value) but, alas, they cannot.

Slapstick
09-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Is Wallace injured? Yes.

Did that have anything to do with his holdout? I guess you can think so, but there is no evidence to support that.

You could just as easily blame the groin injury that Isaac Redman had on Mike Wallace's holdout as well...

SDSteel1
09-20-2012, 03:19 PM
Trainers crack me up; they think they have it all figured out and then make statements like this. No training puts you in football shape other than playing football. How many times have we seen players, who are supposedly training like mad men, but not playing football, come in and get hurt? It happens all the time. Remember when Chris Johnson held out last year? He came in late and absolutely sucked since he wasn't practicing actually playing football. You cannot simulated football conditions if you are not actually practicing PLAYING football. No crack bang whiz trainer can make up for not playing football. They like to think they can (to hype up their value) but, alas, they cannot.

It's funny, because you crack me up, and most of the forum. Your opinions are hilarious. I don't have to hype my value as a trainer, because I didn't become certified to sell my services. I have a real career, but I wanted to learn some of the new training techniques because I coach in my free time and wanted to put together some very sport specific training programs for my teams. I played 12 years of organized tackle football, and have never had an injury due to lack of contact. And you can simulate and replicate football conditions while training. Maybe your high school doesn't have a good enough trainer to show you how.

lloydroid
09-20-2012, 03:41 PM
Is Wallace injured? Yes.

Did that have anything to do with his holdout? I guess you can think so, but there is no evidence to support that.

You could just as easily blame the groin injury that Isaac Redman had on Mike Wallace's holdout as well...

No way to know, but there is a TREND of players who hold out have a higher rate of hamstring and groin injuries than those who don't miss camp. It's kind of obvious.

pittpete
09-20-2012, 03:49 PM
Proof to back it up instead of your flapping gumbs and of course basic logic..
No one takes you serious here.
My responses to your know-it-all posts are entertaining.
Insanesteelersfan II, I'll get it out of you.
Back to the subject.
Post some evidence.
A recent study done by certified medical staff or by the NFL.
How do you know Wallaces' groin isnt just sore because it's sore.

Does your family of doctors specialize in groin injuries?
Are you a groin specialist?

squidkid
09-20-2012, 04:07 PM
i'd bet wallass is faking it so he doesnt have to practrice.
where was there any proof that he was actually working out wth a trainer in florida? because his agent said he was? an agent wouldnt lie about him being in great shape and working really hard to try to get a huge contract would he?
we were told he was faster than ever because of this 'training'. i have yet to see him get behind a db.

lloydroid
09-20-2012, 04:18 PM
It's funny, because you crack me up, and most of the forum. Your opinions are hilarious. I don't have to hype my value as a trainer, because I didn't become certified to sell my services. I have a real career, but I wanted to learn some of the new training techniques because I coach in my free time and wanted to put together some very sport specific training programs for my teams. I played 12 years of organized tackle football, and have never had an injury due to lack of contact. And you can simulate and replicate football conditions while training. Maybe your high school doesn't have a good enough trainer to show you how.

Trainers are mostly delusional, thinking they offer such genius that they make a huge difference in athletic performance. I watch what the "certified" trainers do in my gym, and they basically torture their "clients" without offering superior results. In other words, they make their clients do extreme crap that doesn't make them in any better shape them doing other stuff that is not as much like torture. You don't need to make people do walking lunges across the gym in order to get their legs in shape. Not necessary. It cracks me up that trainers think that being "certified" makes them such an authority on the subject. How hard is it to get that certification? I know so many "dull knives" who are certified trainers. They are everywhere.

I also know how NFL strength coaches roll. Their biggest, by far, concern is not getting players injured. That is by far their highest priority. But, bottom line, free weights are the most effective way to train football players, other than playing football. But an over-emphasis of power rack training can put too much stress and wear and tear on ankles, feet and knees, adding more stress to those body parts when they are already getting stress from just running around on the field.
I recall Tom Coughlin was all about hard core power racks with free weights, like squats, clean and jerks, etc. but he kept having lots of lower body injuries. Was there a relation? Some feel there was. If only he had a "certified trainer" to consult him. :D

RuthlessBurgher
09-20-2012, 04:26 PM
I will point out that while Wallace is injured and we are wondering whether he will play on the Sunday; the player that the Steelers did reward with a big contract is practicing, will play and leads the team with 11 receptions. Appears to me that they made the right investment.

Brown having 11 receptions and Wallace having 9 receptions is proof that they made the right investment? Two of Wallace's measly 9 post-holdout catches were for touchdowns, which is just as many TD catches as Brown has in his entire NFL career. And Wallace did practice today, by the way.

lloydroid
09-20-2012, 04:27 PM
Proof to back it up instead of your flapping gumbs and of course basic logic..
No one takes you serious here.
My responses to your know-it-all posts are entertaining.
Insanesteelersfan II, I'll get it out of you.
Back to the subject.
Post some evidence.
A recent study done by certified medical staff or by the NFL.
How do you know Wallaces' groin isnt just sore because it's sore.

Does your family of doctors specialize in groin injuries?
Are you a groin specialist?

No such thing, first of all. And, why do you need proof when plain common sense makes it more than obvious to anyone who has a working brain? Do I need to prove that "water is wet" to you as well? Where is the proof that water is wet. Do I need to prove the sun is bright? Where is the proof. I don't believe it is. And, groins don't just "get sore." It's not like when lifting weights and, like I am right now, sore from pushing muscles. Obviously, you have never pulled a groin or you wouldn't appear so ignorant right now. It's nothing subtle. It's like a gun shot, not just "sore." I crack up watching NFL games where it is clearly a pulled groin and the announcers never realize it when I do. When a dude stops suddenly from moving and puts his hand on his upper, inner thigh, it's always a pulled groin. Every time. If Wallace never had it hit him suddenly like that (and I never did see him react like his groin went, but it could have happened off camera) then he doesn't have a legit pulled groin. There is no version of it going slightly. When it pops, it pops and it ain't gonna get better fast. Had he not held out, an injury would be less likely, using mere common sense, if you have any.

Sugar
09-20-2012, 04:27 PM
Hmmm... from this, it doesn't look like Wallace is thinking he'll be missing game time: http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/A-challenge-for-Steelers-wide-receivers/ccc1e99a-cc80-4c5f-81ee-9dfba8ebef15

Oviedo
09-20-2012, 04:43 PM
Brown having 11 receptions and Wallace having 9 receptions is proof that they made the right investment? Two of Wallace's measly 9 post-holdout catches were for touchdowns, which is just as many TD catches as Brown has in his entire NFL career. And Wallace did practice today, by the way.

Good gawd!!!!! I was just jerking the Wallace supporters around. Don't take everything as such a serious commentary on world affairs. Can't we have fun here anymore without everyone thinking their PhD in football knowledge is being attacked?

phillyesq
09-20-2012, 04:55 PM
No such thing, first of all. And, why do you need proof when plain common sense makes it more than obvious to anyone who has a working brain? Do I need to prove that "water is wet" to you as well? Where is the proof that water is wet. Do I need to prove the sun is bright? Where is the proof. I don't believe it is. And, groins don't just "get sore." It's not like when lifting weights and, like I am right now, sore from pushing muscles. Obviously, you have never pulled a groin or you wouldn't appear so ignorant right now. It's nothing subtle. It's like a gun shot, not just "sore." I crack up watching NFL games where it is clearly a pulled groin and the announcers never realize it when I do. When a dude stops suddenly from moving and puts his hand on his upper, inner thigh, it's always a pulled groin. Every time. If Wallace never had it hit him suddenly like that (and I never did see him react like his groin went, but it could have happened off camera) then he doesn't have a legit pulled groin. There is no version of it going slightly. When it pops, it pops and it ain't gonna get better fast. Had he not held out, an injury would be less likely, using mere common sense, if you have any.

This is entirely speculative. While the holdout may have increased the risk of a pull, there is no causal link between the pull and the holdout. And as DeCastro and Spence will tell you, camp and the preseason is not without its own risks.

DukieBoy
09-20-2012, 05:03 PM
Trainers are mostly delusional, thinking they offer such genius that they make a huge difference in athletic performance. I watch what the "certified" trainers do in my gym, and they basically torture their "clients" without offering superior results. In other words, they make their clients do extreme crap that doesn't make them in any better shape them doing other stuff that is not as much like torture. You don't need to make people do walking lunges across the gym in order to get their legs in shape. Not necessary. It cracks me up that trainers think that being "certified" makes them such an authority on the subject. How hard is it to get that certification? I know so many "dull knives" who are certified trainers. They are everywhere.

I also know how NFL strength coaches roll. Their biggest, by far, concern is not getting players injured. That is by far their highest priority. But, bottom line, free weights are the most effective way to train football players, other than playing football. But an over-emphasis of power rack training can put too much stress and wear and tear on ankles, feet and knees, adding more stress to those body parts when they are already getting stress from just running around on the field.
I recall Tom Coughlin was all about hard core power racks with free weights, like squats, clean and jerks, etc. but he kept having lots of lower body injuries. Was there a relation? Some feel there was. If only he had a "certified trainer" to consult him. :D

And a wannabe Mental Health expert and Social Psychology Researcher as well. Talk about delusions ...

lloydroid
09-20-2012, 05:20 PM
And a wannabe Mental Health expert and Social Psychology Researcher as well. Talk about delusions ...

Wannabe mental health expert? Social psychology researcher? Are you all the way with us? Your non sequitur offering is beyond confusing. Please try to stay with the thread's line of conversation. Thank you.

D Rock
09-20-2012, 05:27 PM
i'd bet wallass is faking it so he doesnt have to practrice.
where was there any proof that he was actually working out wth a trainer in florida? because his agent said he was? an agent wouldnt lie about him being in great shape and working really hard to try to get a huge contract would he?
we were told he was faster than ever because of this 'training'. i have yet to see him get behind a db.

I don't mind if he doesn't get behind DBs, as long as he keeps catching touchdowns in front of them.

D Rock
09-20-2012, 05:30 PM
Wannabe mental health expert? Social psychology researcher? Are you all the way with us? Your non sequitur offering is beyond confusing. Please try to stay with the thread's line of conversation. Thank you.


You're like a politician. You say a lot of things, try to make them sound fancy, and a little bit of what you say actually shows some knowledge and makes sense. The rest of it is just ridiculous and has an air of talking down to people.


Oh yeah...and nobody really likes you. Yep, you're definitely just like a politician.

lloydroid
09-20-2012, 06:02 PM
You're like a politician. You say a lot of things, try to make them sound fancy, and a little bit of what you say actually shows some knowledge and makes sense. The rest of it is just ridiculous and has an air of talking down to people.


Oh yeah...and nobody really likes you. Yep, you're definitely just like a politician.

The "politician" claim is beyond inaccurate. Politicians only say things to be liked. How am I being like a politician when you claim I assert things that make me disliked? Can you grasp how flawed your logic is? Oh well. Peace be with you. And, just for future consideration: When you come at people with ad hominem attacks, you can expect, at the very least, for them to "talk down to you," if not full out return insults. It's odd how some let insults fly and then whine when they get a reaction from said insults. It's like the character, Paulie, in the "Rocky" series. After a rant of insults about the people surrounding the LA gym of Apollo Creed's, and Rocky says, "Maybe they don't like you either," and Paulie responds, "What did I do to them?" God bless.

SDSteel1
09-20-2012, 06:05 PM
Trainers are mostly delusional, thinking they offer such genius that they make a huge difference in athletic performance. I watch what the "certified" trainers do in my gym, and they basically torture their "clients" without offering superior results. In other words, they make their clients do extreme crap that doesn't make them in any better shape them doing other stuff that is not as much like torture. You don't need to make people do walking lunges across the gym in order to get their legs in shape. Not necessary. It cracks me up that trainers think that being "certified" makes them such an authority on the subject. How hard is it to get that certification? I know so many "dull knives" who are certified trainers. They are everywhere.

I also know how NFL strength coaches roll. Their biggest, by far, concern is not getting players injured. That is by far their highest priority. But, bottom line, free weights are the most effective way to train football players, other than playing football. But an over-emphasis of power rack training can put too much stress and wear and tear on ankles, feet and knees, adding more stress to those body parts when they are already getting stress from just running around on the field.
I recall Tom Coughlin was all about hard core power racks with free weights, like squats, clean and jerks, etc. but he kept having lots of lower body injuries. Was there a relation? Some feel there was. If only he had a "certified trainer" to consult him. :D

Bob Roguski had some input into Tom Coughlins training ideas, and he was also my strength and conditioning coach in college, he currently works for the Ravens though. Coach Roguski was a certified trainer, and he made us do some crazy stuff, and we got great results. What exactly is your point? ....I do have to say your BS does keep this forum entertaining though. But tell me how you know how NFL trainers...strength and conditioning coaches, roll? Do you know one?

eniparadoxgma
09-20-2012, 06:46 PM
I think it's about time we got back to the serious issue at hand:


Groins can last for months.

I, for one, am hoping that my groin will last me until the day I die. God forbid a few months from now I'm walking down the street and my groin falls off. I would appreciate some input from some of you self-professed groin experts. Thanks in advance.



Eni ~ You are ON FIRE tonight !!!

:Bow:Bow:Bow

Hey, it's hard to go wrong when given such great material. :)


You are supposed to consult with a doctor if they last for more than 4 hours. :p

Either that or help conceive a quirky Robin William character while unconscious... (testing your movie knowledge with this one)

BURGH86STEEL
09-20-2012, 06:46 PM
I doubt their is very little evidence to support that Wallace suffered a groin injury as a result of not participating in camp.

DukieBoy
09-20-2012, 06:53 PM
Wannabe mental health expert? Social psychology researcher? Are you all the way with us? Your non sequitur offering is beyond confusing. Please try to stay with the thread's line of conversation. Thank you.

It's clear that nobody here is all the way with you. It is the other way around ... you are not with us here. Your posts are alienating many others here, and you just are not getting it.

fordfixer
09-20-2012, 06:59 PM
~ You are ON FIRE tonight !!!

[/COLOR]:Bow:Bow:Bow
I think a shot of pencillin will stop the burning:p

RuthlessBurgher
09-20-2012, 07:04 PM
Either that or help conceive a quirky Robin William character while unconscious... (testing your movie knowledge with this one)

You may have gotten me here...is that the one where Robin Williams plays a kid who's aging in dog years (I believe it was called "Jack")? I doubt that's how the Genie from Aladdin was conceived (unless the folks at Disney are perverts). Maybe that's how Teddy Roosevelt from Night at the Museum was conceived. :p

DukieBoy
09-20-2012, 07:05 PM
I think a shot of pencillin will stop the burning:p

All the entertainment needed is right here on this thread.

:D:D:D

Gus
09-20-2012, 07:31 PM
The "politician" claim is beyond inaccurate. Politicians only say things to be liked. How am I being like a politician when you claim I assert things that make me disliked? Can you grasp how flawed your logic is?

Dear MSM,

I see how fond you are of logic (or lack there of; i'm really not sure). Here is something for you:

beyond inaccurate = not inaccurate = accurate

P.S. Please go 'like' some other team.

D Rock
09-20-2012, 07:43 PM
Dear MSM,

I see how fond you are of logic (or lack there of; i'm really not sure). Here is something for you:

beyond inaccurate = not inaccurate = accurate

P.S. Please go 'like' some other team.

hahahaha it's funny how many different people everyone thinks this guy is. The common trait? They're all gone, and everyone is happier with it that way.

pittpete
09-20-2012, 08:34 PM
A groin is a muscle isnt it?
Muscles get sore don't they?
Depends on the severity of the tears in the muscle fibers you joker.
I dont see on any injury report where Wallace has a torn groin muscle.

If Wallace hurt his groin in the 10th game of the season would you chalk it up to not being at training camp?
I've never heard thats it's common sense to anyone with a working brain that if you miss training camp you automatically will get injured.
Your example of Chris Johnson is incorrect also, because he sucks this year also.
You get angry because you talk out of your @ss and when people call you on it you can't back it up with any evidence.
BTW

Wallace returns to practice: Steelers wide receiver Mike Wallace (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/559250/mike-wallace) (groin) returned to practice Thursday after sitting out Wednesday. He was listed as a full participant as the team prepares for Week 3 at Oakland.
(Updated 09/20/2012)

There goes your whole theory.
Shut ya yap now, go back into your hole and save yourself some face

DukieBoy
09-20-2012, 09:40 PM
The "politician" claim is beyond inaccurate. Politicians only say things to be liked. How am I being like a politician when you claim I assert things that make me disliked? Can you grasp how flawed your logic is? Oh well. Peace be with you. And, just for future consideration: When you come at people with ad hominem attacks, you can expect, at the very least, for them to "talk down to you," if not full out return insults. It's odd how some let insults fly and then whine when they get a reaction from said insults. It's like the character, Paulie, in the "Rocky" series. After a rant of insults about the people surrounding the LA gym of Apollo Creed's, and Rocky says, "Maybe they don't like you either," and Paulie responds, "What did I do to them?" God bless.

Go see this guy. His method will help you if you pay attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw

Slapstick
09-20-2012, 11:10 PM
No way to know, but there is a TREND of players who hold out have a higher rate of hamstring and groin injuries than those who don't miss camp. It's kind of obvious.

Can you provide actual data? Or are you just speculating?

BradshawsHairdresser
09-21-2012, 08:40 AM
If I'd had to do what Wallace did on that touchdown catch last Sunday, I'd have pulled a lot more than my groin...

flippy
09-21-2012, 09:03 AM
Wallace has a pulled groin. This is exactly the kind of thing some of us felt would likely happen.

Quick question - who is us?

This thread goes on and on, but I'm still stumped on who the group of fans are that were collectively predicting Wallace would pull his groin. I remember you saying this. Just don't remember others thinking it was going to happen. Maybe Emma Watson? or the schizophrenia is setting in? :)

Oviedo
09-21-2012, 09:28 AM
Quick question - who is us?

This thread goes on and on, but I'm still stumped on who the group of fans are that were collectively predicting Wallace would pull his groin. I remember you saying this. Just don't remember others thinking it was going to happen. Maybe Emma Watson? or the schizophrenia is setting in? :)

Yes Emma Watson. Whatever shw says is good with me!

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-21-2012, 09:42 AM
Can't we have fun here anymore without everyone thinking their PhD in football knowledge is being attacked?

No we can't

squidkid
09-21-2012, 10:43 AM
I don't mind if he doesn't get behind DBs, as long as he keeps catching touchdowns in front of them.


sure, but his value to the team is how he strecthes the field so everybody else gets open. that of course is coming from his supporters that want the organization to pay him 10, 11 12+ million per year. i guess it was a wise decsion not to mortgage the frasnchises future to sign wallace if he cant get deep anymore

RuthlessBurgher
09-21-2012, 12:31 PM
Yes Emma Watson. Whatever shw says is good with me!

I'm sure Hermione knows a healing spell that could be used on Wallace's groin.

steelz09
09-21-2012, 01:50 PM
The resistance he wasn't getting in Florida was from a defender that was playing him hard and really trying to stop him from getting where he wants to go. I'm sure he had other athletes attempting to offer resistance, but they probably weren't NFL trained cornerbacks that have been playing defense their entire football lives. That's what Mike missed and no amount training can simulate the movements that you may have to make during an NFL game during a one-on-one drill in pads or without pads. You need to be getting pushed and bumped by potentially 1, 2 or 3 guys on one play. You may have to break a route off quicker than expected due a 240 pound linebacker bearing down on you. There is no way to simulate a defense that doesn't want you to go where you want go until you step on the field.

I'm sure Mike worked hard and if all he had to do was run in a straight line he may never pull a groin or hammy. Once you have to start running real routes to avoid a good NFL defender then the dynamics of what you need to do physically change and that's when strains, pulls and sprains occur.

He's injured, he may have been injured regardless of hold out, the hold out had very little to do with it, missing live football scrimmages and games probably had more to do with it than anything.

Pappy

:Agree


I couldn't help but think about the combine in all of these discussions. If training in shorts is so relevant to playing then why don't we just automate the whole draft process. Whoever ranks the best in the various combine tests gets automatically drafted first and so forth.

squidkid
09-21-2012, 02:59 PM
:Agree


I couldn't help but think about the combine in all of these discussions. If training in shorts is so relevant to playing then why don't we just automate the whole draft process. Whoever ranks the best in the various combine tests gets automatically drafted first and so forth.


why stop there? there should be no pads or any contact thru OTAs, training camp and once the season starts. the only time you put on a uniform and pads is for the games

Slapstick
09-21-2012, 03:12 PM
why stop there? there should be no pads or any contact thru OTAs, training camp and once the season starts. the only time you put on a uniform and pads is for the games

Why stop there? Just put flags on the players for the games and don't even bother with the pads...

flippy
09-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Why stop there? Just put flags on the players for the games and don't even bother with the pads...

Let's just skip the games and give the Steelers the Lombardi...

RuthlessBurgher
09-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Why stop there? Just put flags on the players for the games and don't even bother with the pads...

Just have the players all connect up with one another on the Playstation Network and play each other on Madden 13. Of course, then we'd have a whole bunch of former players coming out of the woodwork to sue the NFL for carpal tunnel syndrome.

lloydroid
09-21-2012, 04:12 PM
Dear MSM,

I see how fond you are of logic (or lack there of; i'm really not sure). Here is something for you:

beyond inaccurate = not inaccurate = accurate

P.S. Please go 'like' some other team.

You are incorrect. "Beyond" means over and above, as in, the assertion is excessively inaccurate. Don't quit your day job; thinking ain't you thing.

And I can like whatever team I damnnn want to and there is nothing you can do about it.

hawaiiansteel
09-21-2012, 04:16 PM
And I can like whatever team I damnnn want to and there is nothing you can do about it.

I'm with you on this one, it's very annoying when another Steeler fan tells you to go root for another team just because they disagree with you or don't like what you have to say.

flippy
09-21-2012, 04:18 PM
I'm with you on this one, it's very annoying when another Steeler fan tells you to go root for another team just because they disagree with you or don't like what you have to say.

You need to pipe down and go root for another team :P

lloydroid
09-21-2012, 04:19 PM
Bob Roguski had some input into Tom Coughlins training ideas, and he was also my strength and conditioning coach in college, he currently works for the Ravens though. Coach Roguski was a certified trainer, and he made us do some crazy stuff, and we got great results. What exactly is your point? ....I do have to say your BS does keep this forum entertaining though. But tell me how you know how NFL trainers...strength and conditioning coaches, roll? Do you know one?

I know more than one. I have hung with one of the foremost, leading experts in strength training in the world - a dude all these "certified trainers" worship. And he is king of the "extreme stuff." Like, everything I see him have people doing are all things that look like hell, and I would never want to do. Did you see the videos of Ziggy Hoods new workouts? All that equipment he used was sold to him by a buddy of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq53TKUWxNQ

What's my point? What's your point?

lloydroid
09-21-2012, 04:28 PM
I think it's about time we got back to the serious issue at hand:



I, for one, am hoping that my groin will last me until the day I die. God forbid a few months from now I'm walking down the street and my groin falls off. I would appreciate some input from some of you self-professed groin experts. Thanks in advance.



Hey, it's hard to go wrong when given such great material. :)



Either that or help conceive a quirky Robin William character while unconscious... (testing your movie knowledge with this one)

The movie reference is to "The World According to Garp," an overrated movie made in 1982. As far as how I know about groin pulls, it's not rocket science; I had a pretty severe one. If Wallace had what I did, no way would he be playing this soon. It wouldn't be possible. I tend to think they made it up, because he generally needed some rest after playing football so soon after missing all of camp. They were just being careful.

lloydroid
09-21-2012, 04:29 PM
I doubt their is very little evidence to support that Wallace suffered a groin injury as a result of not participating in camp.

There is little evidence that he even had a pulled groin.

hawaiiansteel
09-21-2012, 04:29 PM
You need to pipe down and go root for another team :P

flippy, you are just too funny...:Cheers

maybe I'll become a Saints fan since Goodell hates them even more than us and they are the closest to our colors. :tt2

flippy
09-21-2012, 04:30 PM
What's my point? What's your point?

One of your dad's can beat up the others? :)

hawaiiansteel
09-21-2012, 04:32 PM
One of your dad's can beat up the others? :)

what did the one firecracker say to the other?

my Pop is bigger than your Pop! ;)

eniparadoxgma
09-21-2012, 04:37 PM
You may have gotten me here...is that the one where Robin Williams plays a kid who's aging in dog years (I believe it was called "Jack")? I doubt that's how the Genie from Aladdin was conceived (unless the folks at Disney are perverts). Maybe that's how Teddy Roosevelt from Night at the Museum was conceived. :p

Incorrect! Think John Lithgow in drag... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSAeqdcZAM For obvious reasons I can't link the scene in question, but Robin Williams' character is conceived by his mother having her way with a comatose soldier with priapism. Now that's a groin that lasts for months. :)

eniparadoxgma
09-21-2012, 05:05 PM
The movie reference is to "The World According to Garp," an overrated movie made in 1982.

Correct! Although I disagree with the "overrated" bit.


I think a shot of pencillin will stop the burning:p

:lol::lol: Didn't see this until now. :Cheers

lloydroid
09-21-2012, 06:27 PM
It's clear that nobody here is all the way with you. It is the other way around ... you are not with us here. Your posts are alienating many others here, and you just are not getting it.

From the kid who posts in lime green. If you can't defend your assertions (like how I pointed out how illogical they are) then you need to rethink your positions and try to go another direction. First, you claimed I was trying to be a "mental health professional" for some mysterious reason, that made no sense. Then you claimed I was like a "politician" with your proof statement being that I write things that made me disliked. Do politicians ever state things in order to be unpopular? You just have trouble with clear thinking, and, for that, I am sure you simply can't help. Your struggles in schooling were not your fault, most likely. And, if my posts are "alienating" that is only because I am responding to ad hominem attacks to begin with. I start no beef with nobody, as Flavor Flav would say.

lloydroid
09-21-2012, 06:34 PM
Correct! Although I disagree with the "overrated" bit.



I remember all the hype about it. There was a buzz about it. But I didn't see it until years later, and to me, it seemed to be trying to be Risqu'e too hard. Maybe if I watched it when it first came out I would have thought differently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxHrl-PyvTE

SidSmythe
09-21-2012, 06:48 PM
It's funny, because you crack me up, and most of the forum. Your opinions are hilarious. I don't have to hype my value as a trainer, because I didn't become certified to sell my services. I have a real career, but I wanted to learn some of the new training techniques because I coach in my free time and wanted to put together some very sport specific training programs for my teams. I played 12 years of organized tackle football, and have never had an injury due to lack of contact. And you can simulate and replicate football conditions while training. Maybe your high school doesn't have a good enough trainer to show you how.

Yeah and don't forget, Groins can last for months!!
Wasn't this guy picking on my grammar the other day??

BradshawsHairdresser
09-21-2012, 06:56 PM
This thread is hilarious...got to laughing so hard, I pulled my groin...

D Rock
09-21-2012, 07:09 PM
From the kid who posts in lime green. If you can't defend your assertions (like how I pointed out how illogical they are) then you need to rethink your positions and try to go another direction. First, you claimed I was trying to be a "mental health professional" for some mysterious reason, that made no sense. Then you claimed I was like a "politician" with your proof statement being that I write things that made me disliked. Do politicians ever state things in order to be unpopular? You just have trouble with clear thinking, and, for that, I am sure you simply can't help. Your struggles in schooling were not your fault, most likely. And, if my posts are "alienating" that is only because I am responding to ad hominem attacks to begin with. I start no beef with nobody, as Flavor Flav would say.

You may need to think a bit clearer before you post again, as DukieBoy never claimed you were like a politician.

As for ad hominem attacks...if proof is what you want, then just go back through this thread and other threads and see which poster here is the one calling out people's intelligence and attempting to belittle folks. I'll give you a hint, the answer is YOU!

D Rock
09-21-2012, 07:22 PM
I'll even make it easier to find:

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/38526-Dwyer-has-turf-toe-no-joking-matter/page2


D Rock: A real Steelers RB would do it if they had to.

lloydroid: Based on...............?????????? Are you suggesting Jack Lambert wasn't tough since a turf toe made him retire?

D Rock: Do you always make things up that have no relation to what was said?

lloydroid: Try to follow along if you can. The assertion was made that "a real running back would still play with turf toe." That is an assertion that is straight forward and simple. Hence, if one believes the above, then one would also, likely and logically, think Lambert wasn't a "real LB" since he retired from the same injury. If you apply basic logic, you will "get it."

Here are the facts on the injury. Please feel free to learn. Thank you.
http://amog.com/sports/152501-turf-toe/

SS Laser
09-21-2012, 07:26 PM
There is no groin pull. It is false info let out so the raiders don't worry about Wallace or some kind of ploy. :) Same as why Ben is "hurt" all the time. :)

hawaiiansteel
09-21-2012, 08:12 PM
Wallace's running style makes him susceptible to groin injuries...

SidSmythe
09-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Trainers are mostly delusional, thinking they offer such genius that they make a huge difference in athletic performance. I watch what the "certified" trainers do in my gym, and they basically torture their "clients" without offering superior results. In other words, they make their clients do extreme crap that doesn't make them in any better shape them doing other stuff that is not as much like torture. You don't need to make people do walking lunges across the gym in order to get their legs in shape. Not necessary. It cracks me up that trainers think that being "certified" makes them such an authority on the subject. How hard is it to get that certification? I know so many "dull knives" who are certified trainers. They are everywhere.

I also know how NFL strength coaches roll. Their biggest, by far, concern is not getting players injured. That is by far their highest priority. But, bottom line, free weights are the most effective way to train football players, other than playing football. But an over-emphasis of power rack training can put too much stress and wear and tear on ankles, feet and knees, adding more stress to those body parts when they are already getting stress from just running around on the field.
I recall Tom Coughlin was all about hard core power racks with free weights, like squats, clean and jerks, etc. but he kept having lots of lower body injuries. Was there a relation? Some feel there was. If only he had a "certified trainer" to consult him. :D

LloydDroid....i have to totally agree with you and ur assessment of "personal trainers"...they usually dangerous or extremely ineffective.

eniparadoxgma
09-21-2012, 09:50 PM
I remember all the hype about it. There was a buzz about it. But I didn't see it until years later, and to me, it seemed to be trying to be Risqu'e too hard. Maybe if I watched it when it first came out I would have thought differently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxHrl-PyvTE

I was too young to catch any of the hype around it when it came out, so that might have something to do with my opinion. Everything is over-hyped nowadays. I rarely see/watch/listen to anything that's force fed to me by the media anymore just out of spite.


I'm sure Hermione knows a healing spell that could be used on Wallace's groin.

She can cast a spell on my...okay that one's just too easy. :D

SDSteel1
09-22-2012, 12:13 AM
I know more than one. I have hung with one of the foremost, leading experts in strength training in the world - a dude all these "certified trainers" worship. And he is king of the "extreme stuff." Like, everything I see him have people doing are all things that look like hell, and I would never want to do. Did you see the videos of Ziggy Hoods new workouts? All that equipment he used was sold to him by a buddy of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq53TKUWxNQ

What's my point? What's your point?

So in your last post to me you say trainers crack you up, and their methods are useless, then you post a Ziggy Hood training video and say you know a guy who sold him the training equipment, and you have hung out with the world's leading experts in strength training. Do these guys train you at your Jr. High School? Oh, and my point was you don't know what your talking about on any subject, then you seem to go off on a tangent when someone points it out. That's all.:)

Gus
09-22-2012, 01:41 PM
Hawaiian,

I agree that it would not be cool to suggest that someone root for another team simply because they disagree with you. I find it completely annoying when someone comes on these message boards spewing out information in a supercilious way without any attempt at camaraderie. We all have something in common here. We all root for the Steelers.
The dude is so polarizing that even when he says something that makes a good point it seems that people find it difficult to agree.
It gets old when so many threads are littered with navel gazing hubrus.
I don't post much. But, his posts have gone "beyond" annoying (oh wait! from a logical standpoint: beyond annoying would mean outside of the realm of annoying thus not annoying ;) )


Go Steelers! Beat dem Raiders!!! May you all have happy and healthy groins!!

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 01:44 PM
I'll even make it easier to find:

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/38526-Dwyer-has-turf-toe-no-joking-matter/page2


D Rock: A real Steelers RB would do it if they had to.

lloydroid: Based on...............?????????? Are you suggesting Jack Lambert wasn't tough since a turf toe made him retire?

D Rock: Do you always make things up that have no relation to what was said?

lloydroid: Try to follow along if you can. The assertion was made that "a real running back would still play with turf toe." That is an assertion that is straight forward and simple. Hence, if one believes the above, then one would also, likely and logically, think Lambert wasn't a "real LB" since he retired from the same injury. If you apply basic logic, you will "get it."

Here are the facts on the injury. Please feel free to learn. Thank you.
http://amog.com/sports/152501-turf-toe/









And? Where is the ad hominem attack? If anything, my point was made crystal clear. If one is claiming that a "real back" can play through turf toe, then one would be indicting Jack Lambert as not being a "real LB" since turf toe made him not only miss games, but retire. I don't know what you are tripping all over yourself about. My assertion was logical: One cannot make the claim that a "real back" could play through turf toe without indicting Lambert as being "not real."

Also, note at who slighted the other first. Did you fail to notice that part? I believe you have selective reading and comprehension; you see things that are not there and fail to notice things that are.

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 02:08 PM
So in your last post to me you say trainers crack you up, and their methods are useless, then you post a Ziggy Hood training video and say you know a guy who sold him the training equipment, and you have hung out with the world's leading experts in strength training. Do these guys train you at your Jr. High School? Oh, and my point was you don't know what your talking about on any subject, then you seem to go off on a tangent when someone points it out. That's all.:)

When I was referring to "trainers" I meant the dime-a-dozen guys who litter every commercial gym, who keep reminding you they are "certified" as if that means they know all, when, in fact, your average, veteran weight lifter knows more than these kind of dudes, in a general manner. The guys I was referring to, who provided the equipment to the gym where Ziggy trains, are world-class, leading-edge, renown experts (even though they aren't even "certified.") The stuff you see NFL players doing NOW, they knew about in the 1990s. (chains connected to barbells during benches and squats, resistance bands, etc.) Every NFL strength and conditioning coach knows and pays homage to these folk. Their techniques are leading-edge, state of the art. Your error is in oversimplification. I never asserted that ALL TRAINERS OF EVERY KIND are overrated. I was only referring to those who tout being "certified" and making people perform walking lunges across the gym, as if their knowledge and training is always superior and infallible. I mean, what does it take to be "certified?" A weekend course at your local Holiday Inn? Oh man, was I ever right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa25XL6uDJ0

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 02:37 PM
I was too young to catch any of the hype around it when it came out, so that might have something to do with my opinion. Everything is over-hyped nowadays. I rarely see/watch/listen to anything that's force fed to me by the media anymore just out of spite.


Actually, I kind of misspoke. It wasn't the hype of when it first came out (as I don't even recall that) but it was kind of the reputation it got in the years after that made me slow to want to watch it; there was a murmur, of sorts, about how how the movie dared to enter taboo areas. I never watched the whole thing; just some of the "Oh how naughty" parts that gave the flick its rep, like wasn't there some BJ scene, some drag queen coverage with John Lithgow and some story about the Glenn Close character having sex and getting pregnant from an unconscious or dead guy? Any how, it just felt like they were trying too hard to be risqu'e. And I am the same as you: When any flick is super promoted, in my face, I won't see it for a long time. It's very rare that something being ballyhooed about is actually worth going to see, but it happens (maybe once a year). "District 9" had some buzz out there and I actually did go see that and enjoyed it very much. Same as "No Country for Old Men."

SDSteel1
09-22-2012, 03:20 PM
When I was referring to "trainers" I meant the dime-a-dozen guys who litter every commercial gym, who keep reminding you they are "certified" as if that means they know all, when, in fact, your average, veteran weight lifter knows more than these kind of dudes, in a general manner. The guys I was referring to, who provided the equipment to the gym where Ziggy trains, are world-class, leading-edge, renown experts (even though they aren't even "certified.") The stuff you see NFL players doing NOW, they knew about in the 1990s. (chains connected to barbells during benches and squats, resistance bands, etc.) Every NFL strength and conditioning coach knows and pays homage to these folk. Their techniques are leading-edge, state of the art. Your error is in oversimplification. I never asserted that ALL TRAINERS OF EVERY KIND are overrated. I was only referring to those who tout being "certified" and making people perform walking lunges across the gym, as if their knowledge and training is always superior and infallible. I mean, what does it take to be "certified?" A weekend course at your local Holiday Inn? Oh man, was I ever right.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa25XL6uDJ0
You may be correct about the personal trainers you know, but the youtube clip, although I don't disagree with his info, is just trying to sell his own book. I was certified through the NASM, (National Academy of Sports Medicine), and the training I do with athletes is scientifically proven and it gets measurable results. I researched, and tested programs before becoming certified, and I have over 30 years of training experience myself. I know what has worked for me, and although I have increased speed, done injury prevention, and have lost weight and gained muscle, I still would never claim that my program has cured cancer like Bert in the youtube clip says.:) You are correct that being "certified" means very little, but then again I didn't become certified to sell my knowledge, I became certified to learn more to help my players and to help myself. The information I learned showed me why I had continually pulled and strained muscles, (especially calf, hamstrings and groin), through the years and it showed me that it was more a function of form rather than something contact or stress related. I was just imparting this info from what I have learned over my last 30+ years of playing and training. Yes I'm old.:)

DukieBoy
09-22-2012, 03:33 PM
You may be correct about the personal trainers you know, but the youtube clip, although I don't disagree with his info, is just trying to sell his own book. I was certified through the NASM, (National Academy of Sports Medicine), and the training I do with athletes is scientifically proven and it gets measurable results. I researched, and tested programs before becoming certified, and I have over 30 years of training experience myself. I know what has worked for me, and although I have increased speed, done injury prevention, and have lost weight and gained muscle, I still would never claim that my program has cured cancer like Bert in the youtube clip says.:) You are correct that being "certified" means very little, but then again I didn't become certified to sell my knowledge, I became certified to learn more to help my players and to help myself. The information I learned showed me why I had continually pulled and strained muscles, (especially calf, hamstrings and groin), through the years and it showed me that it was more a function of form rather than something contact or stress related. I was just imparting this info from what I have learned over my last 30+ years of playing and training. Yes I'm old.:)

Well-stated SDS.

I had a problem in my upper back nearly 3 years ago that would have required fusion or discectomy/replacement surgery, but for excellent work with me by a Certified Physical Therapist/Athletic Trainer. His work got me well, and his training guidance has kept me well ... no pain, and no surgery. I am grateful for his professional expertise.

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 03:55 PM
You may be correct about the personal trainers you know, but the youtube clip, although I don't disagree with his info, is just trying to sell his own book. I was certified through the NASM, (National Academy of Sports Medicine), and the training I do with athletes is scientifically proven and it gets measurable results. I researched, and tested programs before becoming certified, and I have over 30 years of training experience myself. I know what has worked for me, and although I have increased speed, done injury prevention, and have lost weight and gained muscle, I still would never claim that my program has cured cancer like Bert in the youtube clip says.:) You are correct that being "certified" means very little, but then again I didn't become certified to sell my knowledge, I became certified to learn more to help my players and to help myself. The information I learned showed me why I had continually pulled and strained muscles, (especially calf, hamstrings and groin), through the years and it showed me that it was more a function of form rather than something contact or stress related. I was just imparting this info from what I have learned over my last 30+ years of playing and training. Yes I'm old.:)

Then, in your case, I stand corrected. I don't know that I meant to put you in the category of the kids who get "certified" and don't know that much. I have been training since I was 20 and have never missed more than 1 week since. (I think I might have missed 2 weeks once due to surgery). And, yea, the guy was trying to sell his book in the video, but, as you said, I don't disagree with what he had to say about certain trainers and their "certification." One other trait I have seen is trainers who are on juice or HGH. It's like, yea, you're huge but that doesn't make you an authority on how to train since so much of your mass is due to drugs. Sticking a needle in your butt doesn't mean you know more than others about training. I remember being with a non-working-out employee at an event once, and they had some ripped up "models" (for lack of better word) standing around at this party. And the guy says to me, "Man, just think how much that guy works out" who was obviously on juice. I didn't even bother to explain that I probably had more frequent and better work outs than the guy who was roided out; it had nothing to do with how much he worked out, other than he surely worked out some, but the main cause for his mass was juice.

Any how, I am sure you are a great trainer and not the kind I was referring to.

lloydroid
09-22-2012, 03:56 PM
Well-stated SDS.

I had a problem in my upper back nearly 3 years ago that would have required fusion or discectomy/replacement surgery, but for excellent work with me by a Certified Physical Therapist/Athletic Trainer. His work got me well, and his training guidance has kept me well ... no pain, and no surgery. I am grateful for his professional expertise.


I greatly admire any professionals who help people avoid surgery, including MTs, DCs, specialists, etc.

D Rock
09-22-2012, 04:39 PM
And? Where is the ad hominem attack? If anything, my point was made crystal clear. If one is claiming that a "real back" can play through turf toe, then one would be indicting Jack Lambert as not being a "real LB" since turf toe made him not only miss games, but retire. I don't know what you are tripping all over yourself about. My assertion was logical: One cannot make the claim that a "real back" could play through turf toe without indicting Lambert as being "not real."

Also, note at who slighted the other first. Did you fail to notice that part? I believe you have selective reading and comprehension; you see things that are not there and fail to notice things that are.

You're entire argument is based on something that was never said nor implied - that a real back would play through turf toe. So yes, you do make things up, and yes, you do attack my character and intelligence to attempt to make your point - a point that exists only in your own mind.


Going around in circles with you is useless, you clearly will never see your posting style for what it truly is. Try all you want to pretend you are in a courtroom or something, but there's no judge here, no jury, and you aren't convincing anyone of anything. We don't care if you were the captain of your high school debate team.