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TD386Steel
09-18-2012, 11:35 AM
Defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau showed off yet another wrinkle, a 4-2-5 configuration in which outside linebackers LaMarr Woodley and Chris Carter came off the field. Yes, it was a four-man line for the Steelers.
“Something new, something new,” Woodley said. “It worked the few plays I saw it.”


Interested to know who the front four where?


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Slapstick
09-18-2012, 11:50 AM
According to the site-that-shall-not-be-named, it was Hood, Hampton, Heyward and Keisel...

Mister Pittsburgh
09-18-2012, 12:01 PM
Is Ta'amu active on game days? I was really pumped up when we drafted him, felt we were lucky to get him where we did, but haven't heard much at all about him through camp, preseason, and now.....whats the word on him?

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 12:04 PM
Is Ta'amu active on game days? I was really pumped up when we drafted him, felt we were lucky to get him where we did, but haven't heard much at all about him through camp, preseason, and now.....whats the word on him?

He's usually inactive...Hampton and McClendon are the active NTs...you don't need three...

Eddie Spaghetti
09-18-2012, 12:12 PM
the coaching staff probably knew Ta'amu was going to need a year to get acclimated. Some here will foolishly say that this is another example of lebeau not rushing players onto the field. I read somewhere they basically have to rebuild him from the ground up.

TD386Steel
09-18-2012, 12:14 PM
According to the site-that-shall-not-be-named, it was Hood, Hampton, Heyward and Keisel...

Thanks for info, Nice to see they are trying to find ways to get more pressure and sacks

Oviedo
09-18-2012, 12:53 PM
According to the site-that-shall-not-be-named, it was Hood, Hampton, Heyward and Keisel...

Sounds like a great 4-3 line to me. Eventually move Hood inside and put Woodley at DE.

lloydroid
09-18-2012, 02:46 PM
Is Ta'amu active on game days? I was really pumped up when we drafted him, felt we were lucky to get him where we did, but haven't heard much at all about him through camp, preseason, and now.....whats the word on him?

Word is he is clearly no where near being ready to play in the NFL. Hope he improves. I was amped when they drafted him too, but he was FAIL so far.

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 02:59 PM
Ta'amu was a 4th round pick and clearly an investment for the future...

A big, space-eating 3-4 NT is a very useful commodity...with Hampton in the last year of his contract, it makes absolute sense to invest a 3rd day pick and spend a year getting him ready...

The Steelers are not a crappy team that needs a 4th round pick to come in and be an immediate contributor...with 2 capable NTs on the roster already, Ta'amu doesn't need to be thrown into the fire...

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Since when is a 4-2-5 formation revolutionary? It's called a standard nickel defense, and teams have been using in for decades. We tend to rotate pass rushers in and out to keep everyone fresh, so just because Woodley and Carter were on the sideline and Hood, Hampton, Heyward and Keisel were all in at once, that makes this something new? Okey dokey...

flippy
09-18-2012, 04:30 PM
Since when is a 4-2-5 formation revolutionary? It's called a standard nickel defense, and teams have been using in for decades. We tend to rotate pass rushers in and out to keep everyone fresh, so just because Woodley and Carter were on the sideline and Hood, Hampton, Heyward and Keisel were all in at once, that makes this something new? Okey dokey...

But Lebeau usually goes light on the ends with LBs. I've always thought we should go bigger up front in the nickle to get more of a push and handle the run better. I like the idea of having a guy the size of Keisel and Heyward on the ends because sometimes Woodley/Harrison while great at what they do, are often going to get swallowed up by the ends.

skyhawk
09-18-2012, 06:59 PM
But Lebeau usually goes light on the ends with LBs. I've always thought we should go bigger up front in the nickle to get more of a push and handle the run better. I like the idea of having a guy the size of Keisel and Heyward on the ends because sometimes Woodley/Harrison while great at what they do, are often going to get swallowed up by the ends.

They got more pressure on Sanchez WITH Wood and Carter especially after the 1st Q. Unrelated observation: I don't think Keisel has really showed up yet this year.

But yes, the 4-2-5 is a nickel D and we have seen it for the last 20 years under Lebeau. And they have used Harrison and Wood on the outside. They just get rid of fat ass on non running downs. I don't think definitions really matter, sometimes even in the 4-2-5 there is only ONE downed lineman and everyone else is standing up and moving around.

skyhawk
09-18-2012, 07:04 PM
And I do think Woodley and Harrison get swallowed up by the ends more these days because the rules have clearly changed to slow them down. They are allowed to hold more. If not for that they would each be getting 15 sacks per year and in the passing oriented league there's no way the NFL is going to allow that.

TD386Steel
09-18-2012, 09:40 PM
At the site that is not to be named Tomlin talks about The Big Nickel package they choose to use against the Jets, that it provides versatility for them and allows them to match up from a personal standpoint and have a big body presence. He also says that they can use 3 corners and 1 safety in that base package. Tomlin claims there are more packages on the way for the season, because they have to have a variety. Good read encouraging info.

Oviedo
09-19-2012, 07:59 AM
And I do think Woodley and Harrison get swallowed up by the ends more these days because the rules have clearly changed to slow them down. They are allowed to hold more. If not for that they would each be getting 15 sacks per year and in the passing oriented league there's no way the NFL is going to allow that.

That is because they are both bullrushers who get into the body of the OT. More and more that OT can hold them without a penalty. As we see with Starks and some of our own players it is much harder to deal with a speed rusher off the end. Holds are much more obvious and get called more. IMO I think in upcoming drafts if we are staying with the 3-4 we need to get some real speed guys for the outside rush. Plus the speed probably would also help in pass coverage.

phillyesq
09-19-2012, 10:34 AM
At the site that is not to be named Tomlin talks about The Big Nickel package they choose to use against the Jets, that it provides versatility for them and allows them to match up from a personal standpoint and have a big body presence. He also says that they can use 3 corners and 1 safety in that base package. Tomlin claims there are more packages on the way for the season, because they have to have a variety. Good read encouraging info.

That site does nothing more than parrot information that real reporters post on twitter.

Tomlin mentioned in his PC that the big nickel was meant to provide some help against the run. The first time I saw it was third and medium - maybe 3 or 5 to go, something like that. It makes some sense -- keeping Casey in there to clog the middle while counting on a rush from the rest. I'm surprised to see that McClendon is not a part of that package - he's among the more effective inside pass rushers on the team.

TD386Steel
09-19-2012, 12:05 PM
That site does nothing more than parrot information that real reporters post on twitter.

Tomlin mentioned in his PC that the big nickel was meant to provide some help against the run. The first time I saw it was third and medium - maybe 3 or 5 to go, something like that. It makes some sense -- keeping Casey in there to clog the middle while counting on a rush from the rest. I'm surprised to see that McClendon is not a part of that package - he's among the more effective inside pass rushers on the team.

I agree about McClendon and like Hood and him inside but keep Woodley on the field as well.

RuthlessBurgher
09-19-2012, 01:48 PM
I agree about McClendon and like Hood and him inside but keep Woodley on the field as well.

Yeah, I'd sit Casey and Carter in most nickel situations. Use McLendon and Hood inside, Woodley on one end, and Keisel/Heyward at the other end.

flippy
09-19-2012, 01:57 PM
I'd rotate the 4 bigs. But I think you'd get the most flexibility with Woodley and Keisel on the ends because one is a big OLB and the other is athletic enough to be an OLB.

I'd rotate a lot the way the Giants and Eagles do. Those teams get a lot of pressure out of their big guys because they're always rotating them.

ikestops85
09-19-2012, 05:13 PM
It's nice to talk about this but its for naught if the QB goes no huddle and we can't get the personnel on the field. Just sayin'

Oviedo
09-19-2012, 05:24 PM
Yeah, I'd sit Casey and Carter in most nickel situations. Use McLendon and Hood inside, Woodley on one end, and Keisel/Heyward at the other end.

Sounds like a great 4 man line to me! You're getting me all excited talking four man fronts;)

ikestops85
09-19-2012, 05:51 PM
Sounds like a great 4 man line to me! You're getting me all excited talking four man fronts;)

Down boy, Down!!


http://www.lolviral.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/doggy-deer.png

fordfixer
09-19-2012, 08:31 PM
Steelers have more defensive wrinkles in addition to the Big Nickel 4-5-2 alignment that features four large linemen and no outside linebackers. Tomlin said it wasn’t designed to discourage Jets quarterback Tim Tebow from running. “We tend to lean on it from time to time because it provides versatility for us. It allows us to match, from a personnel standpoint, in the secondary with skill but also maintain our big body presence in the run game,” Tomlin said. “Another answer that we have is a personnel group where we use three corners and one safety with a base defense. It’s really a different way of addressing the same issue.”..............................

Oviedo
09-20-2012, 08:31 AM
Down boy, Down!!


http://www.lolviral.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/doggy-deer.png

I took a cold shower, it's OK now. However, I'm still smiling at all the four man front talk.

hawaiiansteel
09-21-2012, 01:44 AM
Big Nickel Could Become a Big Part of Steelers D

by Steelblitz

The Steelers have been forced into a lot of nickel defensive packages in recent years. It comes with the territory of the new NFL. Offenses, including the Steelers, are now being built around quarterbacks and big play wide receivers. With three and four wide receiver sets becoming the norm for offenses the Steelers use a lot of nickel which puts five defensive backs on the field.

The nickel defense uses two defensive ends as defensive tackles, two outside linebackers as defensive ends, two inside linebackers over the line, three corners and two safeties. This leaves the middle of the defense more susceptible to the run with the lack of a nose tackle on the field. Guys like Casey Hampton and Steve McLendon demand double teams and are run stuffing lineman, but aren’t included in the nickel defense. This leads teams, like the Broncos in week 1, to run against the smaller front of the nickel package.

That is where the “big nickel” comes into play. The “big nickel” includes one of the nose tackles and three defensive lineman. On these occasions Cameron Heyward, Brett Keisel, Ziggy Hood and Casey Hampton were on the line. Behind them was Lawrence Timmons and Larry Foote at linebacker and the five defensive backs. With Ryan Mundy (usually Troy Polamalu) and Ryan Clark at safety and Ike Taylor and Keenan Lewis at corner the Steelers usually add Cortez Allen to the package as the fifth man in the secondary. Will Allen has also seen some time in the “big nickel” package as the fifth man.

There are good and bad aspects to this plan. First, it helps to protect against the run which forces the offense to short runs or passing attempts when the defense goes to the nickel. It also is a solid third down defense protecting against the draw play. However, this set takes LaMarr Woodley off the field and did so five times on third down against the Jets. That means for five plays the Steelers took their best pass rusher off the field to protect against the run. Woodley is big enough to be in the “big nickel” as one of the edge defenders, but was not used as one in the game Sunday.

The Oakland Raiders like to use their running backs in the passing game and run them out of passing sets so the “big nickel” package may see more time on Sunday. However, with the lack of quarterback pressure being applied early in the season the Steelers may want to put Woodley on the edge to force Carson Palmer to get rid of the ball quicker and potentially force him into some bad throws or interceptions.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/big_nickel_could_become_a_big_part_of_steelers_d/11759305

Oviedo
09-21-2012, 07:58 AM
Big Nickel Could Become a Big Part of Steelers D

by Steelblitz

The Steelers have been forced into a lot of nickel defensive packages in recent years. It comes with the territory of the new NFL. Offenses, including the Steelers, are now being built around quarterbacks and big play wide receivers. With three and four wide receiver sets becoming the norm for offenses the Steelers use a lot of nickel which puts five defensive backs on the field.

The nickel defense uses two defensive ends as defensive tackles, two outside linebackers as defensive ends, two inside linebackers over the line, three corners and two safeties. This leaves the middle of the defense more susceptible to the run with the lack of a nose tackle on the field. Guys like Casey Hampton and Steve McLendon demand double teams and are run stuffing lineman, but aren’t included in the nickel defense. This leads teams, like the Broncos in week 1, to run against the smaller front of the nickel package.

That is where the “big nickel” comes into play. The “big nickel” includes one of the nose tackles and three defensive lineman. On these occasions Cameron Heyward, Brett Keisel, Ziggy Hood and Casey Hampton were on the line. Behind them was Lawrence Timmons and Larry Foote at linebacker and the five defensive backs. With Ryan Mundy (usually Troy Polamalu) and Ryan Clark at safety and Ike Taylor and Keenan Lewis at corner the Steelers usually add Cortez Allen to the package as the fifth man in the secondary. Will Allen has also seen some time in the “big nickel” package as the fifth man.

There are good and bad aspects to this plan. First, it helps to protect against the run which forces the offense to short runs or passing attempts when the defense goes to the nickel. It also is a solid third down defense protecting against the draw play. However, this set takes LaMarr Woodley off the field and did so five times on third down against the Jets. That means for five plays the Steelers took their best pass rusher off the field to protect against the run. Woodley is big enough to be in the “big nickel” as one of the edge defenders, but was not used as one in the game Sunday.

The Oakland Raiders like to use their running backs in the passing game and run them out of passing sets so the “big nickel” package may see more time on Sunday. However, with the lack of quarterback pressure being applied early in the season the Steelers may want to put Woodley on the edge to force Carson Palmer to get rid of the ball quicker and potentially force him into some bad throws or interceptions.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/big_nickel_could_become_a_big_part_of_steelers_d/11759305

I would NOT take Woodley off the field like they did against the Jets. Put him at DE where he should be anyway or put him on the field and take Foote out.