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flippy
09-18-2012, 03:42 AM
Can you please enable Ben to be successful on 1st and 2nd downs like he is on 3rd downs?

Let's be real about a couple things. Our Oline stinks. Our #2 and #3 TE shouldn't be on the field over any of our WRs. Our running game doesn't work because our Oline doesn't work.

Pretty much Ben is heroic. This is a 6-10 team with just about any other QB.

Can we try to help him get 4-5 yards or more on 1st and 2nd downs?

We can see you're trying to do things differently. But it's still a lot of the same where we live on Ben being heroic on 3rd downs. It's not sustainable. It's gonna get him killed behind our line eventually.

I was thinking we hired you to help preserve Ben and lengthen his career. But I see the same 3rd and long situations that are forcing Ben to hold the ball to make plays down field that's gonna open him up to getting hit/hurt.

steelblood
09-18-2012, 07:30 AM
Can you please enable Ben to be successful on 1st and 2nd downs like he is on 3rd downs?

Let's be real about a couple things. Our Oline stinks. Our #2 and #3 TE shouldn't be on the field over any of our WRs. Our running game doesn't work because our Oline doesn't work.

Pretty much Ben is heroic. This is a 6-10 team with just about any other QB.

Can we try to help him get 4-5 yards or more on 1st and 2nd downs?

We can see you're trying to do things differently. But it's still a lot of the same where we live on Ben being heroic on 3rd downs. It's not sustainable. It's gonna get him killed behind our line eventually.

I was thinking we hired you to help preserve Ben and lengthen his career. But I see the same 3rd and long situations that are forcing Ben to hold the ball to make plays down field that's gonna open him up to getting hit/hurt.

I don't disagree. But, I don't think he is being stubborn either. Willie Colon is settling in at LG and figuring things out, and Max is rounding into form (no pun intended) after his injury. This offensive line could still be decent. Last season, Pouncey, Foster, and Gilbert run blocked well together in several games. Once this group gets some more time together they could be a decent run blocking group. They need the reps. I do think they need to mix in more play action pass on first down.

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 11:29 AM
It's only been two games. If Arians was here it would be even worse with Ben getting brutalized. Haley is still learning the strengths of his players and what they are capable of. Everyone knows you can place a lot on Bens shoulders and Arians over did it. Haley is trying to make it that, Ben doesn't have to be the hero each week. You can only strecth the fabric so far before it rips.
Colon was a reach at tackle and now he's trying to play guard and from what I've seen they were better off keeping Kemoeatu. Arians got to grow with this team as a receivers coach then the OC and he couldn't keep Ben from getting the crap knocked out of him and the offense only went as far as Ben could take them. Haley will make this offense a good unit with Ben leading the way. BTW, Haley doesn't have the luxury of a great defenses as Arians did.

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 11:38 AM
...now he's trying to play guard and from what I've seen they were better off keeping Kemoeatu.

Now that's just crazy talk!!!
;)

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 11:40 AM
BTW, Haley uses the best players he has and makes his offense go through them...

In Arizona, it was Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin...

In KC, Jamaal Charles and Thomas Jones were better than Matt Cassel...

Here, it's Ben, the WRs and Heath...

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 11:45 AM
Also, who is Tood Haley?:p

Oviedo
09-18-2012, 12:32 PM
Colon was a reach at tackle and now he's trying to play guard and from what I've seen they were better off keeping Kemoeatu.

That is just plain crazy talk. Colon has been playing OG under real game conditions for just two games now. Kemo did it for his whole playing life. IMO Colon is already showing better than Kemo did last year.

Colon will not be a long term problem at OG, Kemo was.

Oviedo
09-18-2012, 12:35 PM
BTW, Haley uses the best players he has and makes his offense go through them...

In Arizona, it was Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin...

In KC, Jamaal Charles and Thomas Jones were better than Matt Cassel...

Here, it's Ben, the WRs and Heath...

It's called adjusting to make your players and therefore the team successful versus putting out a template. I'm looking forward to the season because I think every game we will see something a little different from Haley but it will be Ben, the WRs and Heath (maybe Saunders) who will win games for us. Running the ball is clearly a supporting role right now.

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 01:56 PM
It's called adjusting to make your players and therefore the team successful versus putting out a template. I'm looking forward to the season because I think every game we will see something a little different from Haley but it will be Ben, the WRs and Heath (maybe Saunders) who will win games for us. Running the ball is clearly a supporting role right now.


I can live with that.

skyhawk
09-18-2012, 02:30 PM
Can you please enable Ben to be successful on 1st and 2nd downs like he is on 3rd downs?

Let's be real about a couple things. Our Oline stinks. Our #2 and #3 TE shouldn't be on the field over any of our WRs. Our running game doesn't work because our Oline doesn't work.

Pretty much Ben is heroic. This is a 6-10 team with just about any other QB.

Can we try to help him get 4-5 yards or more on 1st and 2nd downs?

We can see you're trying to do things differently. But it's still a lot of the same where we live on Ben being heroic on 3rd downs. It's not sustainable. It's gonna get him killed behind our line eventually.

I was thinking we hired you to help preserve Ben and lengthen his career. But I see the same 3rd and long situations that are forcing Ben to hold the ball to make plays down field that's gonna open him up to getting hit/hurt.

There are ALOT more plays with quick passes. 1-2-3 and gone! Was I watching a different game? A friend and I were discussing this during the game.

flippy
09-18-2012, 03:00 PM
Also, who is Tood Haley?:p

Tood's Todd's his more athletic brother. I hear he's the better golfer.

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 03:09 PM
Ben has 25 attempts on 3rd down so far this year..

14 have been 3rd and long (6 or more to go)...the other 11 have been 3rd and short-to-medium (<6 yards to go)...to date, 56% of his 3rd down attempts are 3rd and long...

Last year, almost 61% of Ben's 3rd down attempts were in a 3rd and long situation...so far, it seems that Haley's offense is doing better on 1st and 2nd down through two games...with some continued improvement, the entire offense can perform well with less Ben Roethlisberger heroism...

flippy
09-18-2012, 03:14 PM
Ben has 25 attempts on 3rd down so far this year..

14 have been 3rd and long (6 or more to go)...the other 11 have been 3rd and short-to-medium (<6 yards to go)...to date, 56% of his 3rd down attempts are 3rd and long...

Last year, almost 61% of Ben's 3rd down attempts were in a 3rd and long situation...so far, it seems that Haley's offense is doing better on 1st and 2nd down through two games...with some continued improvement, the entire offense can perform well with less Ben Roethlisberger heroism...

Good catch. Maybe I'm captured by the moment, but it seems like there's more 3rd and long heroics these last 2 games than usual. I'm surprised the stats say it's a little less.

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 03:18 PM
I think because the offense looks newer/different that, we recognize the third down conversions a bit more. Could be that the running game has not carried the offense and we see Ben bailing it out with the third down pass conversions. just saying

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2012, 03:30 PM
Tood's Todd's his more athletic brother. I hear he's the better golfer.

Todd is the guy who has been getting along alright with Ben so far. Tood is the guy who was in shouting matches with Anquan Boldin and Matt Cassel (the bad atti-TOOD).

Seriously, though, the formation with triple tight ends to the right or triple tight ends to the left has got to go. 11 personnel (a single RB with Heath, Wallace, Brown, and Sanders) is the way to go. 13 personnel just has bad luck written all over it.

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 03:41 PM
I have a feeling it's going to be a lot of Miller time with Haley. I have no problem with that at all as long as Ben gets the opportunity to be a strike force with the great receivers we have. To me tightends are a release valve or to get the small yards or when you get in the redzone and you need to muscle off a corner or linebacker to get to the ball.

Do some 3 & 4 receiver sets.
Be able to run the ball if needed and to keep the defenses off balance.
Some two tightend set would be nice to again, keep the defenses from getting into a rhythm.

If we had a half decent o-line our offense could be one of the great ones under Haley and Ben.

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 08:21 PM
Heath Miller was criminally ignored over the last two seasons...

Call his number and he'll produce as many TDs as Wallace (albeit for a much lower average length)...

NJ-STEELER
09-19-2012, 12:50 AM
Heath Miller was criminally ignored over the last two seasons...

Call his number and he'll produce as many TDs as Wallace (albeit for a much lower average length)...

its tough to catch balls when your being told to go into the back field to help the OL block the pass rush