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Starlifter
09-17-2012, 12:20 AM
I'll apologize from the start because I don't want this to be a post or thread about politics - but if I don't vent about the officiating in the NFL and the hypocrisy I just won't be able to sleep tonight.

I don't care what side of labor you fall on. support unions, don't support unions - that's not the point of the thread. What is happening however with the officials is disgusting. They call it PRO football because it's not for amateurs. It's easy to crap on the refs, but they are professionals as well and an integral part of the game. The guys they have now are amateurs. They are NOT professionals. They call them replacements. I've heard some union guys refer to them as a four letter word. After watching first hand their performance today, I'm going with the latter. What angers me most is the NFL is consciously putting an INFERIOR product on the field. We're not talking about hundreds of players and tens of millions of dollars. How many refs are there in the union? around 125? I'm not suggesting caving in, but locking them out??? keep the talks going but preserve the integrity of the season.

which brings me to the players. specifically the NFLPA. I seem to recall very recently NFL players walking to the middle of the field and holding up a finger to show Roger Goodell they were unified against him. good for them. It worked out well and they all got paid. It does seem hypocritical the silence from the players regarding the officials. the NFLPA is no fan of Goodell. If they stood with the refs instead of watching from the sidelines - I'm pretty sure there might be some movement. The NFL is all about the money. This lockout hasn't cost them a nickel. Until it does, we're stuck with the crap we saw today.

Today was horrible. not just for our game but listening Sirius afterwards it sounds like it was an epidemic. It's not enough to say the refs suck but at least they suck for both teams. That's a crap excuse. often times a season comes down to one game, one play. We were 12-4 last year and a wildcard. think that made a difference? think one game won't make a difference this year?

anyway, end of rant.

thank god we won.

fordfixer
09-17-2012, 12:35 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Replacement-officials-mistakes-NFL-starts-to-suffer-091612


NFL Suffering With Replacements

by Mike Pereira


UPDATED SEP 17, 2012 12:17 AM ET

I'm officially over it.





I know it just began, but it's time for it to end and you all know what I'm talking about. I don't really care what the issues are or which side has the more legitimate argument, the NFL needs the real referees back on the field.


There were a lot of upsets in Weak 2 — yes, I spelled weak correctly — from the results of games to results of the calls made on the field. NFL players are the best in the business. The real NFL referees are the best in the business, too. The two sides need to get together — now.


There are so many little things that took place Sunday that they are all starting to add up to big things.


From not penalizing a coach for challenging a play that couldn't be challenged (Washington-St. Louis) to allowing the clock to run after an incomplete pass (Cleveland-Cincinnati) to calling a chop block that wasn't a chop block (Dallas-Seattle) to calling an incomplete pass that should have been ruled intentional grounding (Oakland-Miami).


Unfortunately, this list goes on and on …



I'm not saying the replacement refs aren't trying their best, because they are. A look at the average penalties called during Week 2 won't differ much from Week 1, but much of the confusion that reigned supreme came from the replacements just not knowing the rules the way the regular officials do.


You can't expect replacements to know the intricacies of the NFL rule book in two weeks on the job. It takes years. But it doesn't take long — two weeks — to see this is not working.


Let's look at three plays in particular that kind of sum up the day:


WASHINGTON AT ST. LOUIS
Situation: St. Louis had the ball, second-and-1 at the Washington 1-yard line with 9:09 left in the second quarter. Washington led 14-3.


Rams running back Steven Jackson rushed for no gain. He fumbled on the play and it was recovered by the Redskins. St. Louis challenged the fumble ruling and the play was reversed.



This should never have happened. A coach is not allowed to challenge a play when a turnover is ruled on the field. It's an automatic 15-yard penalty. Also, depending on when the challenge flag came from St. Louis coach Jeff Fisher, the play likely shouldn't have been reviewed anyway. If Fisher threw the challenge flag before the replay official initiated the review, then a review is not allowable by rule. If the review is initiated first, before the challenge flag is thrown, it's still a 15-yard penalty, but you can review the play.


DALLAS AT SEATTLE.
Situation: Seattle had the ball, second-and-6 at the Dallas 22-yard line with 6:03 left in the second quarter. Seattle led 10-7.


Seahawks running back Marshawn Lynch rushed for one yard. A penalty was called on Seattle's J.R. Sweezy and Max Unger for a chop block against Marcus Spears.


This was not a chop block. The play would have been a foul in college and it was called by a former college official. However, in the NFL, it is legal to chop block a defender on the back side of a run if the two offensive lineman that chop are lined up next to each other at the snap. Sweezy was the right guard and Unger is the center. That's why it was a legal block and the foul shouldn't have been called.


CLEVELAND AT CINCINNATI.
Situation: Cincinnati had the ball, first-and-20 at the Bengals' 47-yard line with 3:25 left in the second quarter. Cincinnati led 17-10.


Cincinnati quarterback Andy Dalton attempted a short pass to A.J. Green that was incomplete. The clock continued to run when it shouldn't have.


The officials are responsible for monitoring the clock. The timer, who is located in the press box, should have stopped the clock but didn't. Officials are always told to keep their eyes on the clock and to correct it when necessary. It was necessary here. Twenty-nine seconds ran off the clock with 3:25 left to go in the second quarter. Cleveland had the ball at the end of the half and who knows what might have happened if the Browns had another 29 seconds to try and kick a field goal or even score a possible touchdown.


End this now. Please

SDSteel1
09-17-2012, 12:39 AM
The only reason why it seems like the "replacement refs" suck more than the other refs is because the media is talking about how bad they suck. Otherwise there is no drop off, the refs have blown games year after year, and blow calls game after game but no one has ever held them accountable...especially the media. Now announcers and players are being verbal about the new guys. The refs are exactly the same. They are crappy, they make numerous mistakes, the over officiate, they are just plain bad, just like last year and the year before that. The only thing that has changed is now the announcers are calling them out.

SDSteel1
09-17-2012, 12:45 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Replacement-officials-mistakes-NFL-starts-to-suffer-091612


NFL Suffering With Replacements

by Mike Pereira


UPDATED SEP 17, 2012 12:17 AM ET

I'm officially over it.





I know it just began, but it's time for it to end and you all know what I'm talking about. I don't really care what the issues are or which side has the more legitimate argument, the NFL needs the real referees back on the field.


There were a lot of upsets in Weak 2 — yes, I spelled weak correctly — from the results of games to results of the calls made on the field. NFL players are the best in the business. The real NFL referees are the best in the business, too. The two sides need to get together — now.


There are so many little things that took place Sunday that they are all starting to add up to big things.


From not penalizing a coach for challenging a play that couldn't be challenged (Washington-St. Louis) to allowing the clock to run after an incomplete pass (Cleveland-Cincinnati) to calling a chop block that wasn't a chop block (Dallas-Seattle) to calling an incomplete pass that should have been ruled intentional grounding (Oakland-Miami).


Unfortunately, this list goes on and on …



I'm not saying the replacement refs aren't trying their best, because they are. A look at the average penalties called during Week 2 won't differ much from Week 1, but much of the confusion that reigned supreme came from the replacements just not knowing the rules the way the regular officials do.


You can't expect replacements to know the intricacies of the NFL rule book in two weeks on the job. It takes years. But it doesn't take long — two weeks — to see this is not working.


Let's look at three plays in particular that kind of sum up the day:


WASHINGTON AT ST. LOUIS
Situation: St. Louis had the ball, second-and-1 at the Washington 1-yard line with 9:09 left in the second quarter. Washington led 14-3.


Rams running back Steven Jackson rushed for no gain. He fumbled on the play and it was recovered by the Redskins. St. Louis challenged the fumble ruling and the play was reversed.



This should never have happened. A coach is not allowed to challenge a play when a turnover is ruled on the field. It's an automatic 15-yard penalty. Also, depending on when the challenge flag came from St. Louis coach Jeff Fisher, the play likely shouldn't have been reviewed anyway. If Fisher threw the challenge flag before the replay official initiated the review, then a review is not allowable by rule. If the review is initiated first, before the challenge flag is thrown, it's still a 15-yard penalty, but you can review the play.


DALLAS AT SEATTLE.
Situation: Seattle had the ball, second-and-6 at the Dallas 22-yard line with 6:03 left in the second quarter. Seattle led 10-7.


Seahawks running back Marshawn Lynch rushed for one yard. A penalty was called on Seattle's J.R. Sweezy and Max Unger for a chop block against Marcus Spears.


This was not a chop block. The play would have been a foul in college and it was called by a former college official. However, in the NFL, it is legal to chop block a defender on the back side of a run if the two offensive lineman that chop are lined up next to each other at the snap. Sweezy was the right guard and Unger is the center. That's why it was a legal block and the foul shouldn't have been called.


CLEVELAND AT CINCINNATI.
Situation: Cincinnati had the ball, first-and-20 at the Bengals' 47-yard line with 3:25 left in the second quarter. Cincinnati led 17-10.


Cincinnati quarterback Andy Dalton attempted a short pass to A.J. Green that was incomplete. The clock continued to run when it shouldn't have.


The officials are responsible for monitoring the clock. The timer, who is located in the press box, should have stopped the clock but didn't. Officials are always told to keep their eyes on the clock and to correct it when necessary. It was necessary here. Twenty-nine seconds ran off the clock with 3:25 left to go in the second quarter. Cleveland had the ball at the end of the half and who knows what might have happened if the Browns had another 29 seconds to try and kick a field goal or even score a possible touchdown.


End this now. Please

Go figure long time ref Mike Pereira wrote this. They couldn't even get a coin flip right when he was missing calls.

fordfixer
09-17-2012, 12:49 AM
Side judge pulled from Saints-Panthers game after his Facebook page showed Saints fandomBy Doug Farrar | Shutdown Corner


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/side-judge-pulled-saints-panthers-game-facebook-page-143323464--nfl.html


Through the current lockout of its game officials, the NFL has been emphatic all along that its replacement officials have passed all appropriate background checks. One would assume that the fill-in crews go through the same checks that the regular, locked-out refs do, but in at least one case, the NFL really dropped the ball. Brian Stropolo, a side judge assigned to work Sunday's game between the New Orleans Saints and Carolina Panthers, was pulled from the crew after it was discovered that his Facebook page shows him to be a hardcore Saints fan.
Ray Anderson, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations, told Stacey Dales of the NFL Network that while there was nothing "essentially improper" about Stropolo's specific allegiance, he was removed from the game as a "safe and appropriate measure" to avoid the appearance of impropriety.


According to ESPN's Chris Mortensen, Stropolo "proudly displays his Saints colors on his Facebook page," and the evidence is pretty clear. There's a waterfront shot in which Stropolo is wearing a Saints hat and windbreaker, and another where he's wearing a Saints hat in a shot with three other people. There's still another shot in which Stropolo is seen tailgating at the Superdome before a preseason game -- fortunately, we suppose, he wasn't working that one.
Mortensen reported that Stropolo actually traveled to the game with the rest of the officiating crew and was on the field for warmups when he was pulled from the game by an NFL representative.
Stropolo, who worked the 2012 season opener between the New York Giants and Dallas Cowboys, interacted with some Saints fans on his page after that first game. "Thanks to everyone for all the support," he wrote. "The crew did a great job tonight. Next stop September 16 at Carolina vs. the Saints."
One of Stropolo's Facebook friends replied, "Hey, now be nice with those yellow flags for our Saints!!"
"That's awesome you get to be an official for a Saints game!" another of Stopolo's Facebook freinds said. "I didn't think they would let you since your (sic) from Louisiana.


This is yet another embarrasment for the league in the ongoing battle with the NFLRA, and one can only imagine what the ramifications might have been had ESPN not notified the NFL of Stropolo's clear and obvious rooting interests. The NFL dodged a major bullet in the fight against the appearance of impropriety in this case, but if this is its actual vetting process, you can bet we'll hear of more shenanigans.
As ESPN's Tom Jackson pointed out on Sunday morning, none of the replacement officials were working Sundays before, and they all love football. So, it would stand to reason that they're all going to be NFL fans to some degree. That Stropolo did not disclose his specific rooting interest was bad enough, but that he made it this public is a clear blight on the NFL's consistent claims that the integrity of the league was above reproach.
"I'm going to look at worst-case scenario, and it's not an isolated incident," Jackson said on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown."
"I think all of this puts in question the integrity of the league. Let's get the regular referees back doing the job they should be doing."
Now, if every blown call (and there will be many this Sunday and Monday) is associated with the possibility that some official is wearing a replica jersey under his stripes ... well, it's one more reason that the sooner this labor impasse is over, the better off everyone will be.
As usual, ESPN's Mike Ditka put it very succinctly: "Commissioner Goodell has his first headache, and this is a big headache. It's time to get the real guys back to work."

Slapstick
09-17-2012, 06:20 AM
I look for a settlement soon. "Golden Boy" Bob Kraft is one of the owners holding the hardline against the refs. His team had a TD called back and ended up losing the game. Belicheat mentioned it in his post game presser, "We had a touchdown called back."

I think Billy was sending a message to his boss by saying that...

SteelBucks
09-17-2012, 07:28 AM
The only reason why it seems like the "replacement refs" suck more than the other refs is because the media is talking about how bad they suck. Otherwise there is no drop off, the refs have blown games year after year, and blow calls game after game but no one has ever held them accountable...especially the media. Now announcers and players are being verbal about the new guys. The refs are exactly the same. They are crappy, they make numerous mistakes, the over officiate, they are just plain bad, just like last year and the year before that. The only thing that has changed is now the announcers are calling them out.

Sorry SDSteel1, but I totally disagree. The replacement refs are a farce and this contract situation needs to be worked out soon.

DukieBoy
09-17-2012, 07:46 AM
Sorry SDSteel1, but I totally disagree. The replacement refs are a farce and this contract situation needs to be worked out soon.

x2

and ... the league needs to professionalize the regular refs to upgrade their attention to the job and their accountability to quality.

flippy
09-17-2012, 07:57 AM
The only problem I have with the scabs is that they're slowing down the flow of the game. They're being too overly cautious to try and get everything right.

The real refs F up all the time. It's part of the game. We have all learned to live with it and complain about the Zebras. It's part of the game.

But trying to be perfect and making the refs a bigger part of the game than the football. That's what's annoying. Just make a call and be done. We'll never need the real refs back.

Fans longing for refs. That's comical in a way.

I thought we hated them all.

Starlifter
09-17-2012, 08:41 AM
The only problem I have with the scabs is that they're slowing down the flow of the game. They're being too overly cautious to try and get everything right.

The real refs F up all the time. It's part of the game. We have all learned to live with it and complain about the Zebras. It's part of the game.

But trying to be perfect and making the refs a bigger part of the game than the football. That's what's annoying. Just make a call and be done. We'll never need the real refs back.

Fans longing for refs. That's comical in a way.

I thought we hated them all.

I don't think anyone expects perfection and yes mistakes are part of the game. There is a big difference however between mistakes due to human nature and mistakes due to individuals not knowing the rules.

flippy
09-17-2012, 09:20 AM
I don't think anyone expects perfection and yes mistakes are part of the game. There is a big difference however between mistakes due to human nature and mistakes due to individuals not knowing the rules.

I can live with either as long as it's fairly consistent and doesn't slow the flow of the game.

And of course so it has a positive impact on us.

I watched the Philly/Balitmore game and it was one of the feistiest games I've seen outside of the Steelers/Ravens. They were letting guy get away with murder between and after the whistles. And they seemed to lose control of that game. And then somehow they called offensive PI to rob the Ravens in the end. It was a ticky tack call given everything else they let guys get away with throughout the game. But it couldn't have happened to a better team, so that was ok :)

SidSmythe
09-17-2012, 09:49 AM
I could fairly call a Steeler game ... i hate when calls go against us and for us.
Although I'd get a lil' gitty whenever they made a big play

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-17-2012, 10:16 AM
So far this season the officiating has sucked badly.....which puts these refs on par with the regulars.

The NFL is both the toughest game to officiate and the worst officiated of the four major sports. This dispute MUST be resolved with the league going to full time officials.

Slapstick
09-17-2012, 10:40 AM
So far this season the officiating has sucked badly.....which puts these refs on par with the regulars.

The NFL is both the toughest game to officiate and the worst officiated of the four major sports. This dispute MUST be resolved with the league going to full time officials.

I don't think that will happen...

One of the reasons that the Officials can afford to be locked out is because they have day jobs...they won't give that up because it puts them at the mercy of greedy owners...kind of like the players...

SDSteel1
09-17-2012, 10:50 AM
x2

and ... the league needs to professionalize the regular refs to upgrade their attention to the job and their accountability to quality.

First of all you aren't going to improve the quality because it's subjective, and by making a deal with the refs you are going to give them more strength which will lead to less accountability like you see in the MLB. The reason why it is taking longer now is because they are under the microscope and they are really trying to get it right, unlike the normal referees who blow call after call and they do it quickly because they aren't scrutinized by the media. How many times does James Harrison get held in a game? How many times does Ben take a late hit, or how many times Tom Brady get a roughing call when he is barely touched? The refs will never be perfect, but to pretend like the guys doing the games last year are any different than the guys this year is a figment of your imagination brought on by the announcers criticism of them. If the real NFL refs want their jobs back they should agree to the NFL's terms and come back to work, because the quality is the same....except these guys are trying harder than normal. The best referee's are the guys who don't throw flags unless a blatant rules infraction occurs, this week you saw more calls because of backlash from the media. Seattle fans are still whining about the refs from our 2005 Superbowl, San Diego fans still hate Ed Hochuli.....officiating is always going to suck, and the more the rules change and the more flags that are thrown the worse it's going to get. At least James Harrison hasn't got a penalty yet...which is has more to do with the new refs than it has to do with the fact that he hasn't stepped on the field yet.

papillon
09-17-2012, 10:58 AM
So far this season the officiating has sucked badly.....which puts these refs on par with the regulars.

The NFL is both the toughest game to officiate and the worst officiated of the four major sports. This dispute MUST be resolved with the league going to full time officials.

The NBA is the worst officiated game in my opinion, then the NHL, then the NFL and finally MLB. The NBA has too many unwritten rules protecting the superstars, the NHL allows too much leeway on the rules before it's actually a penalty, the NFL officials rely too much on instant replay and MLB gets the best marks, because, I rarely watch a game until the playoffs.

The replacements are doing no better or worse than the regular officials, they may not be as up to snuff on the rules, but in general the officiating is horrible regardless of who's wearing the stripes. I wish they would remove the instant replay and the challenges from the game and let the players determine the outcome, not a TV camera. The 70s, early 80s and later 90s football was just fine without replays. If the NFL wants to eliminate problems, then don't let the teams broadcast replays on the huge TVs in the stadiums and let the officials call the game as it is played without stopping the flow. Replay has led to flopping trying to get calls, WRs throwing their hands up after every play seemingly, the flow of the game interrupted nearly every series of downs and now every score is being replayed, it's intolerable.

The only football I can watch is the Steelers, when two teams play in which I do not have a dog in the fight it's like watching grass grow, regardless of how good the match up should be.

Pappy

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-17-2012, 12:23 PM
...The best referee's are the guys who don't throw flags unless a blatant rules infraction occurs ...

Like that flag they threw on Ike yesterday (or was it Clark) for hitting too hard? They threw the flag because it was one of the hardest hits of the season, and it just "seemed" wrong to them. Then when they couldn't find that the hit itself was illegal, they called PI on Ike - who, as far as I could see and the TV announcers too, was nowhere within 6 inches of making contact with anyone on that play.

Having said that, it is a sign that the Apocalypse is nigh that we seem to be pining for the refs of yore ...

SDSteel1
09-17-2012, 12:34 PM
Like that flag they threw on Ike yesterday (or was it Clark) for hitting too hard? They threw the flag because it was one of the hardest hits of the season, and it just "seemed" wrong to them. Then when they couldn't find that the hit itself was illegal, they called PI on Ike - who, as far as I could see and the TV announcers too, was nowhere within 6 inches of making contact with anyone on that play.

Having said that, it is a sign that the Apocalypse is nigh that we seem to be pining for the refs of yore ...

The funny thing is that there are "phantom" calls in every game, and make up calls in every game. They would rather make up some BS rather than just pick up the flag and admit that they were too quick to react, or just plain wrong. Honestly on any given play 4-5 penalties are occurring, hands to the face, holding, illegal contact etc., in my opinion the job of the refs is to call the one that is most blatant and anything that directly and severely affects a play to change the outcome, otherwise flags should stay in the pocket. I think it's safe to say the replacement refs suck just as bad as the regular ones.

hawaiiansteel
09-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Post-Jets thoughts

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2012
by Dale Lolley

@ I have defended the replacement officials thus far as not being all that much different than the regular officials.

But Sunday's game was a travesty.

Not only were their several bad calls made against both teams, but there seemed to be a huddle anytime a flag was thrown.

Referee Jerry Frump also took f...o...r...e...v...e...r every time he went under the hood for a replay.

The stat sheet said this game took just 3:08 to play, but it seemed more like three days with all of the stoppages.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

ikestops85
09-17-2012, 05:08 PM
I think the league's refusal to negotiate with the officials union constitutes 'conduct detrimental to the league' and Goodell should be fined millions of dollars. :stirpot

That is all

hawaiiansteel
09-17-2012, 07:55 PM
I think the league's refusal to negotiate with the officials union constitutes 'conduct detrimental to the league' and Goodell should be fined millions of dollars. :stirpot


when Roger talks about "protecting the shield" and the "integrity of the league", is this what he had in mind?

http://www.balkzilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GOODELL.jpg

DukieBoy
09-17-2012, 09:02 PM
The NFL referee-ing would improve if they professionalized their pool of referees, when they could increase accountability and quality control through more intensive training, weekly performance reviews, quality control using continuous intensive improvement strategies. IMO.

D Rock
09-17-2012, 09:53 PM
I challenge anyone to watch this Monday Night Football game and not immediately say that the real refs need to return.

Starlifter
09-17-2012, 10:33 PM
I challenge anyone to watch this Monday Night Football game and not immediately say that the real refs need to return.

Over two hours just to complete the first half. Denver is out of challenges trying to fix the mistakes.

Excrutiating.

hawaiiansteel
09-17-2012, 11:47 PM
I challenge anyone to watch this Monday Night Football game and not immediately say that the real refs need to return.


Replacement refs embarrass the NFL on Monday Night Football

Posted by Michael David Smith on September 17, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/atlantarefs.jpg?w=250

There’s no sugar-coating it: The replacement officials working Monday Night Football are an embarrassment.

In an ugly first quarter that lasted a full hour, the officials showed themselves to be completely incapable of keeping a game moving and keeping up with the fast-paced, stressful job that is officiating in the NFL.

In what may have been the single biggest display of incompetence so far in this lockout of the NFL referees, there was a six-minute delay late in the first quarter while the officials attempted to straighten out what happened when Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno fumbled and players on both sides were pushing and shoving in a pileup. Players came off the bench to get into the scrum. Coaches came off the sideline to get involved. Players were getting in officials’ faces and yelling at them, and in some cases putting their hands on the officials. The officials seemed totally overwhelmed and unsure how to restore order.

In the end, only one player (Falcons defensive end Ray Edwards, whom the referee referred to as “93 red”) was penalized, and no one was ejected. It’s a mystery why other players weren’t penalized. In particular, why wasn’t Broncos center J.D. Walton ejected for grabbing an official and pulling him away from the pile?

It also wasn’t clear that the Falcons actually recovered the fumble — the Broncos looked like they jumped on it — although the fact that the officials might have awarded possession to the wrong team became a side issue in the chaos that ensued.

The pileup after the Moreno fumble was only the most glaring of several instances in which it was clear that the officials didn’t have control over the game. At another point, Broncos coach John Fox screamed at the officials and appeared to get a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct, but the officials picked up the flag and didn’t explain why they hadn’t enforced the penalty. There was also a penalty on the Broncos for hitting Matt Ryan after he slid — which was the right call, although the flag only came out after the Falcons started complaining and the crowd started grumbling. Officials need to look like they’re swift, decisive and immune to outside influence, not like they’re influenced by people yelling at them.

Since I started here by calling the replacement officials an embarrassment, let me conclude by making clear that they’re not an embarrassment to themselves — they’re doing the best they can at a hard job they were thrown into with too little training. No, they’re an embarrassment to Roger Goodell and the NFL owners, who are allowing underqualified and unprepared people to tarnish a great league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/17/replacement-refs-embarrass-the-nfl-on-monday-night-football/

SDSteel1
09-17-2012, 11:51 PM
I will now agree that it's slowing down the games, but basically it's because the media scrutiny. The announcers are now questioning every call and saying they are wrong. I don't really give a crap one way or the other, but it's funny to hear people asking for the regular refs back because they are just as horrible as these guys. I hope the media continues to question the officiating when the other guys do come back. I want to hear the announcers say "James Harrison was held again and no one called it", or "Ben continues to get pummeled after getting rid of the ball yet the refs fail to throw the flag", or "Boy Tom Brady drew a roughing call by tripping over his own feet and didn't get touched". Either way it won't changed the fact the officials aren't very good whether they are full time, part time, replacement or volunteer.

SDSteel1
09-18-2012, 12:03 AM
Replacement refs embarrass the NFL on Monday Night Football

Posted by Michael David Smith on September 17, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/atlantarefs.jpg?w=250

There’s no sugar-coating it: The replacement officials working Monday Night Football are an embarrassment.

In an ugly first quarter that lasted a full hour, the officials showed themselves to be completely incapable of keeping a game moving and keeping up with the fast-paced, stressful job that is officiating in the NFL.

In what may have been the single biggest display of incompetence so far in this lockout of the NFL referees, there was a six-minute delay late in the first quarter while the officials attempted to straighten out what happened when Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno fumbled and players on both sides were pushing and shoving in a pileup. Players came off the bench to get into the scrum. Coaches came off the sideline to get involved. Players were getting in officials’ faces and yelling at them, and in some cases putting their hands on the officials. The officials seemed totally overwhelmed and unsure how to restore order.In the end, only one player (Falcons defensive end Ray Edwards, whom the referee referred to as “93 red”) was penalized, and no one was ejected. It’s a mystery why other players weren’t penalized. In particular, why wasn’t Broncos center J.D. Walton ejected for grabbing an official and pulling him away from the pile?

It also wasn’t clear that the Falcons actually recovered the fumble — the Broncos looked like they jumped on it — although the fact that the officials might have awarded possession to the wrong team became a side issue in the chaos that ensued.

The pileup after the Moreno fumble was only the most glaring of several instances in which it was clear that the officials didn’t have control over the game. At another point, Broncos coach John Fox screamed at the officials and appeared to get a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct, but the officials picked up the flag and didn’t explain why they hadn’t enforced the penalty. There was also a penalty on the Broncos for hitting Matt Ryan after he slid — which was the right call, although the flag only came out after the Falcons started complaining and the crowd started grumbling. Officials need to look like they’re swift, decisive and immune to outside influence, not like they’re influenced by people yelling at them.

Since I started here by calling the replacement officials an embarrassment, let me conclude by making clear that they’re not an embarrassment to themselves — they’re doing the best they can at a hard job they were thrown into with too little training. No, they’re an embarrassment to Roger Goodell and the NFL owners, who are allowing underqualified and unprepared people to tarnish a great league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/17/replacement-refs-embarrass-the-nfl-on-monday-night-football/

I'm glad this stuff never happened before the replacements refs started working....or did it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHaYX3Qu50I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6u-RR34akI

Some short memories in the media.

fordfixer
09-18-2012, 01:14 AM
Replacement officials taking heatBy ROB MAADDI (AP Pro Football Writer) | The Associated Press


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/replacement-officials-taking-heat-213518078--nfl.html


One official was pulled from duty because he's a fan. Another negated a touchdown without ever throwing a penalty flag. Several others had difficulty with basic rules.
Upon further review, Week 2 was a poor one for the NFL's replacement officials.
Coaches and players around the league are losing patience and speaking out against the fill-in officials following a slew of questionable calls in Sunday's games.
Some players are even joking about dipping into their own pockets to settle the contract dispute and get the regular officials back on the field immediately.
''I don't know what they're arguing about, but I got a couple of (million) on it, so let's try to make it work,'' Washington defensive back DeAngelo Hall said, kiddingly, on Monday. ''I'm sure the locker room could pot up some cash and try to help the cause out.''
The NFL locked out the regular officials in June after their contract expired. Negotiations with the NFL Referees Association broke down several times during the summer, including just before the season, and the league is using replacements for the first time since 2001.
The results have been a mixed bag.
Just hours before kickoff Sunday, the NFL removed side judge Brian Stropolo from the New Orleans-Carolina game because it was discovered he's a Saints fan.
And then came the on-field problems.
In Philadelphia's 24-23 win over Baltimore, two game-altering calls left quarterback Joe Flacco and linebacker Ray Lewis fuming. It appeared on replay both calls were accurate as is. But that didn't make it any less controversial.
Flacco's scoring pass to receiver Jacoby Jones in the fourth quarter was called back because of offensive pass interference. The official who made the call didn't throw the yellow flag, though he immediately signaled a penalty.
''I might sound like a little bit of a baby here,'' Flacco said. ''But for them to make that call, I think, was a little crazy.''
There was confusion later on during Philadelphia's go-ahead drive. First, the two-minute warning occurred twice. Then, quarterback Michael Vick's forward pass was called a fumble inside the Ravens 5. It was ruled incomplete following a replay, and Vick scored on the next play after a few anxious moments.
''It's extra stress when you have to sit there and wait,'' Vick said. ''The one thing you don't want to do, you don't want to put the game in the officials' hands.''
Lewis, like many players around the league, has seen enough.
''The time is now,'' Lewis said. ''How much longer are we going to keep going through this whole process? I don't have the answer. I just know across the league teams and the league are being affected by it. It's not just this game, it's all across the league. And so if they want the league to have the same reputation it's always had, they'll address the problem. Get the regular referees in here and let the games play themselves out.
''We already have controversy enough with the regular refs calling the plays.''
Despite the public outrage, the league backed the replacement crew, a collection of small college officials who have been studying NFL rules since the summer.
''Officiating is never perfect. The current officials have made great strides and are performing admirably under unprecedented scrutiny and great pressure,'' NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in an Email to The Associated Press. ''As we do every season, we will work to improve officiating and are confident that the game officials will show continued improvement.''
While some mistakes were judgment calls - such as a pass interference penalty on Pittsburgh defensive back Ike Taylor in which he appeared to miss a New York Jets receiver - the more egregious errors appear to be misinterpretations of rules.
In St. Louis' 31-28 victory over Washington, Rams coach Jeff Fisher challenged a second-quarter fumble by running back Steven Jackson near the goal line and it was overturned. The Rams ended up kicking a field goal, which was the margin of victory.
The problem there was a coach is not allowed to challenge a play when a turnover is ruled on the field. It should've been an automatic 15-yard penalty on Fisher. Also, if Fisher threw the red challenge flag before the replay official initiated the review, then a review is not allowed and the Redskins would've kept the ball.
''I just think that they're just so inconsistent that it definitely has an effect on the games,'' Redskins linebacker London Fletcher said. ''You were hoping it would get better, but everybody is having to dealing with it.''
In the Cleveland-Cincinnati game, the clock continued to run after an incomplete pass by Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton in the second quarter. A total of 29 seconds ticked off, and the Browns ended the half with the ball at their 29. Perhaps an extra half-minute could've helped the drive. The Bengals won 34-27.
''Missed calls & bad calls are going to happen,'' Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, an NFLPA executive council member, wrote on Twitter. ''That's part of the deal & we can all live with it. But not knowing all the rules and major procedural errors (like allowing the clock to run after an incomplete pass) are completely unacceptable. Enough already.''
The Colts were incorrectly told at the end of their game that accepting an offside penalty would start the clock. So, quarterback Andrew Luck spiked the ball to stop it and set up Adam Vinatieri's 53-yard field goal that gave Indianapolis a 23-20 win over Minnesota.
Feisty play was a common theme around the league, as well. Players are seemingly getting away with being more physical, especially after the whistle. Officials appear reluctant to call personal fouls, opting instead for offsetting unsportsmanlike penalties that won't dissuade guys from going after each other as much.
The officials singled out an offender in the final minutes at St. Louis. Washington receiver Josh Morgan reacted after being tackled - and then shoved - by Cortland Finnegan, tossing the ball at the Rams cornerback and drawing an unsportsmanlike penalty. That turned a potential game-tying 47-yard field goal into a 62-yard attempt, which Billy Cundiff missed short.
''I've never been a part of a game that was that chippy,'' Hall said. ''Just so much extracurricular things going on after the play.''
Philadelphia receiver Jason Avant predicted replacement officials would have trouble keeping players in line.
''When you go into a game, you know what things you can do to get away with, with these refs that we have,'' Avant said a few days before the season opener. ''Guys are going to kind of cheat.''
As a result, Avant and many of his peers are concerned about safety.
''If they're going to press player safety,'' Buffalo center Eric Wood said, ''and they're going to have this multibillion-dollar industry, they should probably try to get something done to keep the product high.''
In 2001, the lockout lasted for one week of the regular season before a settlement was reached. This was the second weekend the replacements were used, and the NFL has drawn up a five-week schedule for using them if the labor dispute is not resolved.
In Week 1, there was one major error, when the officials awarded Seattle an extra timeout in the final minutes of a game at Arizona. The Cardinals held on to win and the crew's referee admitted the mistake.
''I don't know if there's a newfound appreciation or anything like that, but those guys have been doing it for a long time and they put a lot of time and hard work into going out there and doing this and seeing those games,'' Flacco said about the regular officials. ''It's not easy to be down there and be officiating games that are going full speed at this level, so that's my opinion of it.
''It's tough to just get thrown right in there and be perfect.''
---
AP Sports Writers Tom Withers in Cleveland, Joseph White in Ashburn, Va., John Wawrow in Buffalo, Will Graves in Pittsburgh and Michael tMarot in Indianapolis contributed to this report

Shoe
09-18-2012, 01:49 AM
The only reason why it seems like the "replacement refs" suck more than the other refs is because the media is talking about how bad they suck. Otherwise there is no drop off, the refs have blown games year after year, and blow calls game after game but no one has ever held them accountable...especially the media. Now announcers and players are being verbal about the new guys. The refs are exactly the same. They are crappy, they make numerous mistakes, the over officiate, they are just plain bad, just like last year and the year before that. The only thing that has changed is now the announcers are calling them out.

I certainly won't go as far as you and say there is no dropoff, but I wholeheartedly agree about the media and their sad bias. The way they talk about the replacement guys, it's dismissive to say the least. These guys have done nothing but take on an impossible task. Did they cause the lockout? No. But everytime one of them makes a call, the announcers are quick to openly question it. It's sad for those guys.

In watching the games, I would have to agree that the biggest thing that stands out are the pass interference calls. But let's also be honest: The real refs make some HORRIBLE calls on pass interference, as it's probably the toughest call to make in the game. I ALL CAPPED "horrible", because I've seen HORRIBLE calls by the real refs. To act like these guys are little children and the real refs are a cut above is a farce. (I think the main thing that makes people ridicule the new guys is how they fumble the actual call, to the listening audience.)

flippy
09-18-2012, 02:40 AM
Anyone notice Wally pushing one of the officials late in the 2nd half this weekend? I was thinking he might get fined.

I'm thinking a couple guys might get fined. It's like these refs are interfering with the flow of games and can't keep guys in line. I hope to see the scabs when the Steelers play the Ravens. Heck, I even hope Hines and Farrior come out of retirement for this game. No rules. Anything goes. I'm not sure the scabs could handle it.

SDSteel1
09-18-2012, 10:56 AM
The NFL is even more at fault for letting this get out of hand. All Goodell needs to do is warn all players and coaches that they will be held accountable for their actions pertaining to the new refs. Basically make effing with the refs and questioning calls and starting chaotic crap like fights or trying to influence refs by begging for a flag punishable by fine and suspension. I would start today by suspending John Fox, Flacco, and I would even suspend announcers who bring attention to the replacement refs. I would lock the whole thing down and then there would be no one holding up games or trying to confuse and take advantage of the new guys. Pretty easy fix, and it should have been addressed before the season started with the new guys. It's the players, the coaches and the media that are pouring gasoline on the situation.

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 02:03 PM
i noticed how santonio bullied the refs into throwing the flags. he does that stuff all the time but these new refs are falling for it.

Ghost
09-18-2012, 02:48 PM
In case you didn't see it: McCoy, RB for the Eagles is claiming a replacement ref approached him DURING the the game and said, "McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy" after talking to him about his fantasy team.

http://tracking.si.com/2012/09/18/lesean-mccoy-replacement-ref-fantasy-eagles/

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 02:54 PM
"McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy"

Was this ref sexually propositioning him?

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 03:28 PM
In case you didn't see it: McCoy, RB for the Eagles is claiming a replacement ref approached him DURING the the game and said, "McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy" after talking to him about his fantasy team.

http://tracking.si.com/2012/09/18/lesean-mccoy-replacement-ref-fantasy-eagles/


Thanks for sharing Ghost. I have no probem with the refs having his favorite team and I'm sure the regular refs do to. I know you shouldn't wear the other teams color but the fact remains, these refs are going to have their favorites. I jut hope they are honorable enough not to let that stuff sway them during the games.
As for Ray Lewis, did you expect anything less from him ? I'm sure these refs are intimidated by the big name players, coaches, spot light and all that comes along with the NFL. It's one thing for Santonio to cry the blues for a flag but when a big guy like Lewis puts out his chest and all that muscle stuff, that is intimidating/bullying the refs.

Does anyone know what the regular refs are asking for that, the NFL won't give up ?

Slapstick
09-18-2012, 03:32 PM
Does anyone know what the regular refs are asking for that, the NFL won't give up ?

I read $10 million over 10 years...

So, the refs want approximaely 0.1% of the revenue that the NFL will generate this year alone, but spread out over 10 years...

fezziwig
09-18-2012, 03:34 PM
I wonder what that comes to compared to their present salary ?

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2012, 04:00 PM
Having a super-early week 4 bye typically sucks, but at least it means that we get one less game with the replacement refs this year.

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2012, 04:03 PM
I read $10 million over 10 years...

So, the refs want approximaely 0.1% of the revenue that the NFL will generate this year alone, but spread out over 10 years...

Their pensions are a big part of it too. The NFL pays into a 401K for most of its full-time employees, but the part-time refs get a full pension instead. The NFL wants to cut what they are paying into the current refs pensions, and then start paying any new incoming refs a 401K retirement plan from now on instead of the current pension system.

NorthCoast
09-18-2012, 07:22 PM
The only reason why it seems like the "replacement refs" suck more than the other refs is because the media is talking about how bad they suck. Otherwise there is no drop off, the refs have blown games year after year, and blow calls game after game but no one has ever held them accountable...especially the media. Now announcers and players are being verbal about the new guys. The refs are exactly the same. They are crappy, they make numerous mistakes, the over officiate, they are just plain bad, just like last year and the year before that. The only thing that has changed is now the announcers are calling them out.

I happen to agree completely SD. The media has created a firestorm and is fanning it at every opportunity. It seems there may be an agenda behind their actions. Bottomline, I look to see if the refs got the call right at the end of the day. The fact is, most times they DO get it right. Maybe it takes a little longer but keep in mind these guys have little to no experience at the pro level so I give them a very generous benefit of the doubt. No way the media treats the regular refs this way, even though they have just as many controversial calls on any given Sunday. I actually like the way the replacements are no-calling a lot of the PIs. at least it gives the DBs a chance to fight, instead of catch-and-tackle. They don't favor pretty boys and they don't target guys with reputations.
I don't get the media's agenda, maybe they don't like union-busting scabs. I don't want to see regular refs back anytime soon. They seem to 'hide' behind the rule book. I would rather live with a call here or there. Maybe I will change my mind if the Steelers lose one cause of a call, but it also wouldn't be the first time it happens, even with the regulars.

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2012, 07:45 PM
I actually like the way the replacements are no-calling a lot of the PIs. at least it gives the DBs a chance to fight, instead of catch-and-tackle. They don't favor pretty boys and they don't target guys with reputations.

But they seem to respond to players pouting for the flag Cedrick-Wilson-style much more than the regular refs. Many times, in multiple games (not just Steeler games), I've seen the play end, no call is made, then a player or a coach whines about the non-call, and the flag gets thrown after the fact. That's bullcrap. Either you saw the penalty when it happened or you didn't. Even the real refs would blow calls if they didn't see the play in the split second it happened, but for the most part, they wouldn't be influenced by the bitching/moaning like these new refs seem to be now.

NorthCoast
09-18-2012, 07:51 PM
But they seem to respond to players pouting for the flag Cedrick-Wilson-style much more than the regular refs. Many times, in multiple games (not just Steeler games), I've seen the play end, no call is made, then a player or a coach whines about the non-call, and the flag gets thrown after the fact. That's bullcrap. Either you saw the penalty when it happened or you didn't. Even the real refs would blow calls if they didn't see the play in the split second it happened, but for the most part, they wouldn't be influenced by the bitching/moaning like these new refs seem to be now.

Probably will take a few weeks to grow the thick skin of the regular refs....

NorthCoast
09-18-2012, 07:55 PM
But they seem to respond to players pouting for the flag Cedrick-Wilson-style much more than the regular refs. Many times, in multiple games (not just Steeler games), I've seen the play end, no call is made, then a player or a coach whines about the non-call, and the flag gets thrown after the fact. That's bullcrap. Either you saw the penalty when it happened or you didn't. Even the real refs would blow calls if they didn't see the play in the split second it happened, but for the most part, they wouldn't be influenced by the bitching/moaning like these new refs seem to be now.

The other thing i would add, the regular refs might not give them the call on THAT play, but i seen plenty of examples of makeup calls on the back end after the pouting happens.

fordfixer
09-19-2012, 12:16 AM
NFL owner admits that the confidence in replacement officials is eroding

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-owner-admits-that-confidence-is-eroding-in-replacements-officials.html;_ylt=At_BBIV8T_dxKRUBrQcK6LBDubYF;_ ylu=X3oDMTRqdTQxM2RwBG1pdANMU1RTIE1peGVkIExpc3QgTk ZMIEV4cGVydHMEcGtnAzI1ZTAwMzczLTAxNzMtMzg3Zi1hZjA3 LTY2MzBjYzE3M2Y3OQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCTGlzdE1peG VkTFBDQVRlbXAEdmVyAzFhM2RiMTIwLTAxZTctMTFlMi1hZGU3 LTAzNWVjNGQ3YzI3OQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoZHY1MWJpBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuZmwEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

Jason Cole
Let me start off by admitting I was shortsighted about one problem with the NFL's replacement refs: Their decided lack of experience with the procedures of running a game are so bad that it's affecting everyone's confidence.

And by everyone, I mean fans, coaches, players and at least one owner who spoke Tuesday morning on the condition of anonymity.

"I'm not comfortable with what I saw last night," the owner said after watching the Atlanta Falcons' 27-21 victory over the Denver Broncos. "It wasn't professional. It wasn't our standards of what a game is supposed to look like … it's not the calls themselves and it's not player safety. That's a silly argument.

"It's the competence and control of the game officials. The officials are supposed to be in control. They're supposed to run the game. Last night after the fumble [by Denver in the first quarter], they didn't have control. They looked like … I don't want to say what they looked like."

Last night's poorly run game capped a long Week 2 in which two conflict-of-interest issues further eroded the confidence in the replacement refs.


The NFL revealed in a memo last week that one official in the Week 1 Seattle-Arizona game had worked some practices and had been paid in the offseason by the Seahawks. Another ref was yanked from the New Orleans-Carolina game on Sunday morning when it was discovered he is a diehard Saints fan.

In a third matter, Philadelphia Eagles running back LeSean McCoy claimed that a ref told him Sunday that he had McCoy on his fantasy team. However, McCoy later said he was joking.

Oy vey. While neither of these first two issues may have ultimately determined the outcome of a game, but that's not the point. Power is often about appearance, not reality.

That was the essence of the one owner's sentiments. It's also what Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan was hinting at Sunday after his team lost to the St. Louis Rams. Shanahan said the refs were dangerously close to "losing control of the game."

On Monday night, the refs did lose control of the game in the first quarter when they couldn't keep control of a scrum after a fumble. The six-minute delay in action made the refs look helpless. They confirmed that again later in the first half when they marched off 11 yards on a defensive holding call that was supposed to be only five yards.

Again, this is not about the actual calls. Yes, there have been plenty of mistakes in that regard. The Ravens-Eagles game featured a missed pass interference call. In New England's loss to the Cardinals, the Patriots had a last-minute touchdown called back because of a highly questionable holding call against tight end Rob Gronkowski.

But questionable calls happen all the time, whether they are replacement refs or the regular guys.

The real issue is how the game is handled. Right now, there are critical stoppages in play where everyone is staring at the officials. The question running through everybody's minds (if not over their lips) is simply, "Do these guys know what they're doing?"


That's not just bad, it's unacceptable. The one owner wouldn't quite go that far, but it wouldn't take much more to push him over that edge.

LeSean McCoy celebrates his TD in the Eagles' won over the Ravens. (Getty)"I know that we feel good about the offer we've made to the officials, but we can't have another week like this if we don't settle soon," the owner said. "The amount of money we're talking about is not worth the embarrassment. This is our product."

That comment is the first major crack in the wall of solidarity the owners have had as they hold the line on salaries for officials. To an extent, both the NFL and the NFL Referees Association are right in how they are handling this negotiation.

The NFL believes, not wrongly, that the salary offer it has made is adequate. "We are ready to negotiate at any time," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email to Yahoo! Sports."

Last season, the average NFL official made $149,000 and the league is offering roughly a five percent increase. There are other issues in play, such as the league's desire to change the pension plan to a 401K.


On the flipside, the NFLRA is perfectly within its rights to wait out the negotiation to get as much as it can. Currently, the difference amounts to roughly $1 million per year as part of a 10-year deal. In the grand scheme of the NFL business, that doesn't seem like much.

Then again, it's always easy to spend somebody else's money. Bottom line, it's a negotiation and the two sides will figure it out.

In the meantime, you can't help but wonder if the replacement refs are going to figure it out.

fordfixer
09-19-2012, 12:20 AM
Replacement officials taking heat
By ROB MAADDI (AP Pro Football Writer) | The Associated Press

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/replacement-officials-taking-heat-081949253--nfl.html


One official was pulled from duty because he's a fan. Another negated a touchdown without ever throwing a penalty flag. Several others had difficulty with basic rules.

Upon further review, the NFL's replacement officials came up short in Week 2.

Coaches and players around the league are losing patience and speaking out against the fill-in officials following a slew of questionable calls in the games Sunday and Monday night.

Some players are even joking about dipping into their own pockets to settle the contract dispute and get the regular officials back on the field.

''I don't know what they're arguing about, but I got a couple of (million) on it, so let's try to make it work,'' Washington defensive back DeAngelo Hall said, kiddingly, on Monday. ''I'm sure the locker room could pot up some cash and try to help the cause out.''

The NFL locked out the regular officials in June after their contract expired. Negotiations with the NFL Referees Association broke down several times during the summer, including just before the season, and the league is using replacements for the first time since 2001.

The results have been mixed.

Just hours before kickoff Sunday, the NFL removed side judge Brian Stropolo from the New Orleans-Carolina game because it was discovered he's a Saints fan.

Then came the on-field problems.

In Philadelphia's 24-23 win over Baltimore, two game-altering calls left quarterback Joe Flacco and linebacker Ray Lewis fuming, though it appeared on replay that both calls were accurate. That didn't make them any less controversial.

Flacco's scoring pass to receiver Jacoby Jones in the fourth quarter was called back because of offensive pass interference. The official who made the call didn't throw the yellow flag, though he immediately signaled a penalty.

''I might sound like a little bit of a baby here,'' Flacco said, ''but for them to make that call, I think, was a little crazy.''

There was confusion later during Philadelphia's go-ahead drive. First, the two-minute warning occurred twice. Then, quarterback Michael Vick's forward pass was called a fumble inside the Ravens 5. It was ruled incomplete following a replay, and Vick scored on the next play after a few anxious moments.

''It's extra stress when you have to sit there and wait,'' Vick said. ''The one thing you don't want to do, you don't want to put the game in the officials' hands.''

Lewis, like many players around the league, has seen enough.

''The time is now,'' he said. ''How much longer are we going to keep going through this whole process? I don't have the answer. I just know across the league teams and the league are being affected by it. It's not just this game, it's all across the league. And so if they want the league to have the same reputation it's always had, they'll address the problem. Get the regular referees in here and let the games play themselves out.

''We already have controversy enough with the regular refs calling the plays.''

The problems continued Monday night when Peyton Manning led the Denver Broncos against the Atlanta Falcons.

The officials missed a call on Denver's first touchdown, ruling that Demaryius Thomas was pushed out of bounds. The replay clearly showed he got both feet down, and the call was reversed after a review.

The Falcons' first score also was reversed, this time with the officials ruling, with help from a replay, that Michael Turner actually landed short of the goal line. He wound up scoring on the next play.

In the second half, the officials got mixed up on where to place the ball after a defensive holding penalty on Champ Bailey. The crowd booed while the officials conferred, finally moving it a few yards forward to the proper spot.

It was those sort of delays that helped the game drag on for nearly 3 1/2 hours.

Despite the public outcry, the league backed the replacement crews, a collection of small-college officials who have been studying NFL rules since the summer.

''Officiating is never perfect. The current officials have made great strides and are performing admirably under unprecedented scrutiny and great pressure,'' NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in an email to The Associated Press. ''As we do every season, we will work to improve officiating and are confident that the game officials will show continued improvement.''

While some of the mistakes on Sunday were judgment calls - such as a pass interference penalty on Pittsburgh defensive back Ike Taylor in which he appeared to miss a New York Jets receiver - the more egregious errors appear to be misinterpretations of rules.

In St. Louis' 31-28 victory over Washington, Rams coach Jeff Fisher challenged a second-quarter fumble by running back Steven Jackson near the goal line and it was overturned. The Rams ended up kicking a field goal, which was the margin of victory.

The problem there was a coach is not allowed to challenge a play when a turnover is ruled on the field. It should've been an automatic 15-yard penalty on Fisher. Also, if Fisher threw the red challenge flag before the replay official initiated the review, then a review is not allowed and the Redskins would've kept the ball.

''I just think that they're just so inconsistent that it definitely has an effect on the games,'' Redskins linebacker London Fletcher said. ''You were hoping it would get better, but everybody is having to dealing with it.''

In the Cleveland-Cincinnati game, the clock continued to run after an incomplete pass by Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton in the second quarter. A total of 29 seconds ticked off, and the Browns ended the half with the ball at their 29. Perhaps an extra half-minute could've helped the drive. The Bengals won 34-27.

''Missed calls & bad calls are going to happen,'' Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, an NFLPA executive council member, wrote on Twitter. ''That's part of the deal & we can all live with it. But not knowing all the rules and major procedural errors (like allowing the clock to run after an incomplete pass) are completely unacceptable. Enough already.''

The Colts were incorrectly told at the end of their game that accepting an offside penalty would start the clock. So, quarterback Andrew Luck spiked the ball to stop it and set up Adam Vinatieri's 53-yard field goal that gave Indianapolis a 23-20 win over Minnesota.

Feisty play was a common theme around the league, as well. Players are seemingly getting away with being more physical, especially after the whistle. Officials appear reluctant to call personal fouls, opting instead for offsetting unsportsmanlike penalties that won't dissuade guys from going after each other as much.

The officials singled out an offender in the final minutes at St. Louis. Washington receiver Josh Morgan reacted after being tackled - and then shoved - by Cortland Finnegan, tossing the ball at the Rams cornerback and drawing an unsportsmanlike penalty. That turned a potential game-tying 47-yard field goal into a 62-yard attempt, which Billy Cundiff missed short.

''I've never been a part of a game that was that chippy,'' Washington's Hall said. ''Just so much extracurricular things going on after the play.''

Philadelphia receiver Jason Avant predicted replacement officials would have trouble keeping players in line.

''When you go into a game, you know what things you can do to get away with, with these refs that we have,'' Avant said a few days before the season opener. ''Guys are going to kind of cheat.''

As a result, Avant and many of his peers are concerned about safety.

''If they're going to press player safety,'' Buffalo center Eric Wood said, ''and they're going to have this multibillion-dollar industry, they should probably try to get something done to keep the product high.''

In 2001, the lockout lasted for one week of the regular season before a settlement was reached. This was the second weekend the replacements were used, and the NFL has drawn up a five-week schedule for using them if the labor dispute is not resolved.

In Week 1, there was one major error, when the officials awarded Seattle an extra timeout in the final minutes of a game at Arizona. The Cardinals held on to win and the crew's referee admitted the mistake.

''I don't know if there's a newfound appreciation or anything like that, but those guys have been doing it for a long time and they put a lot of time and hard work into going out there and doing this and seeing those games,'' Flacco said about the regular officials. ''It's not easy to be down there and be officiating games that are going full speed at this level, so that's my opinion of it.

''It's tough to just get thrown right in there and be perfect.''

---

AP Sports Writers Tom Withers in Cleveland, Joseph White in Ashburn, Va., John Wawrow in Buffalo, Will Graves in Pittsburgh, Michael Marot in Indianapolis and Paul Newberry in Atlanta contributed to this report.

hawaiiansteel
09-19-2012, 01:59 AM
http://www.sycaonline.org/images/NFL%20Refs.jpg

SDSteel1
09-19-2012, 09:15 AM
http://www.sycaonline.org/images/NFL%20Refs.jpg

And these are the regulars......no wonder the replacements suck too.

papillon
09-19-2012, 09:34 AM
All this whining about nothing, the calls are no different good or bad than the regular referees. The problem these guys are having is managing the game, the teams and coaches. Hand out dome unsportsmanlike conduct penalties to coaches for being idiots and thinking that because they're replacement refs that they can berate them without penalty and the game will get under control quickly.

Flacco and his whining, Fox and his whining, the media and their whining is nauseating. I read an article about the Ravens game and inside the article they say the Ravens were complaining about two calls that were wrong, but after reviewing the footage the calls were correct. So, why are they still bellyaching? The calls were correct.

I hope the regulars never come back, you want to fix the game and keep the pace of the game moving, then eliminate the ridiculous instant replay, play the game, live with the calls and either win or lose. The games will get done in under 3 hours easily. Every call doesn't have to be correct they only need to be equitable to both teams, that is, no bias. Some of the most exciting football to watch that didn't involve the Steelers was during the 70s; the game had good pace and you didn't have to set aside half a day to watch a game. There were mistakes, some helped your team and some didn't, but over the course of a season it probably evened out.

Instant replay is the problem, not the refs.

Pappy

fezziwig
09-19-2012, 11:33 AM
Having a super-early week 4 bye typically sucks, but at least it means that we get one less game with the replacement refs this year.


That's a positive way of looking at it. Hopefully the other refs will return soon so this early bye doesn't go unappreciated.

RuthlessBurgher
09-19-2012, 01:45 PM
One other issue potentially in play:

The regular refs make an average salary of $150K for a part time gig (not to mention a lucrative pension to look forward to after they retire as well), so it is unlikely that any of the real refs would ever risk that level of security for an NBA ref Tim Donaghy type of payoff. But these replacement refs are expected to be gone in a matter of weeks (at least I hope so), so what do these guys have to lose if organized crime makes one of them an offer that he can't refuse in order to make sure that a certain team covers the spread? Just a thought...

fezziwig
09-19-2012, 04:01 PM
organized crime nothing ! we should get together and offer the refs some coin for an outcome of a game lol. if the phantom calls they had on our steelers this past game came from the regular refs then, i would have said the fix was in.

NorthCoast
09-19-2012, 07:16 PM
"I'm not comfortable with what I saw last night," the owner said after watching the Atlanta Falcons' 27-21 victory over the Denver Broncos. "It wasn't professional. It wasn't our standards of what a game is supposed to look like … it's not the calls themselves and it's not player safety. That's a silly argument.

How ironic... the very guys that can control resolving the referee issue are complaining...... Owners best be silent on this issue, or their hipocracy will turn against them quickly.