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View Full Version : Can we stop the RB Debate?



NorthCoast
09-16-2012, 11:39 PM
Still think it's Dwyer over Redman?

I. Redman 12 / 25 yds
J. Dwyer 12 / 28 yds.

These running backs are interchangeable and I don't see one taking it away from the other based on two games played.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-16-2012, 11:43 PM
What's going to happen when our Marquis pony is healthy? Seems like we can win any game at all with the 3 we got now!

AngryAsian
09-16-2012, 11:47 PM
The beauty about the whole thing is that even with a patchwork OL we are still getting it done. This backfield by committee is the flexibility we need to keep wearing teams down. I love that stat in the 4th... 10+ min. drive. Granted we had help with some mental mistakes by gang green but this D we faced today aint no slouch.

fordfixer
09-17-2012, 12:03 AM
the beauty about the whole thing is that even with a patchwork ol we are still getting it done. This backfield by committee is the flexibility we need to keep wearing teams down. I love that stat in the 4th... 10+ min. Drive. Granted we had help with some mental mistakes by gang green but this d we faced today aint no slouch.
x 2 ................

Chadman
09-17-2012, 12:13 AM
How bad has our running game become if a 2.4 YPC is 'getting it done'??

There are signs of life, but all the RB's look decidedly uninspiring to Chadman. Mendenhall is clearly the #1 RB on the roster. Either Dwyer or Redman could serve as the short yardage guy, and Batch doesn't look anything special. Rainey is the wildcard, but more in a 3rd down role.

Along with a Safety or 2 in the next draft, a RB should be high on the list- a 1 cut, forward momentum type that can take whatever advantage is possible behind lacklustre run blocking.

Discipline of Steel
09-17-2012, 12:46 AM
How bad has our running game become if a 2.4 YPC is 'getting it done'??

There are signs of life, but all the RB's look decidedly uninspiring to Chadman. Mendenhall is clearly the #1 RB on the roster. Either Dwyer or Redman could serve as the short yardage guy, and Batch doesn't look anything special. Rainey is the wildcard, but more in a 3rd down role.

Along with a Safety or 2 in the next draft, a RB should be high on the list- a 1 cut, forward momentum type that can take whatever advantage is possible behind lacklustre run blocking.

I agree we had a poor average. Not inspiring. What i did like though, was we ran when we had to ... fourth quarter, final drive that sucked the life out of them.

Slapstick
09-17-2012, 06:25 AM
I agree we had a poor average. Not inspiring. What i did like though, was we ran when we had to ... fourth quarter, final drive that sucked the life out of them.

Average, shmaverage...they were persistent in running the ball and wore down the Jest so that, by the 4th quarter, they were breaking tackles and eating clock to the tune of a 10+ minute drive...

Dwyer does his Earl Campbell impression by lowering his helmet and drilling a Jest DB in the chest...a few plays later, Redman shrugs off tacklers at the goal line and goes in standing up...

ikestops85
09-17-2012, 12:56 PM
I loved what I saw at the end of the game with our backs. Both did a great job. What concerned me was the start of the game when Redman did his best Mendy impression. Run to the line of scrimmage and then stop. What the hell was that all about. I know there wasn't a hole there but his best attribute is lowering his head and getting what he could. I'm just glad he stopped doing that in the second half.

Oviedo
09-17-2012, 01:10 PM
I loved what I saw at the end of the game with our backs. Both did a great job. What concerned me was the start of the game when Redman did his best Mendy impression. Run to the line of scrimmage and then stop. What the hell was that all about. I know there wasn't a hole there but his best attribute is lowering his head and getting what he could. I'm just glad he stopped doing that in the second half.

He did it for the same reason that Mendy get all the "hate" the interior of the OL was getting blown up and there was no hole. For all the hype Redman gets he IS NOT and never will be Bettis who could make a hole if there wasn't one.

We have a true RB by committee right now but I would love to see Dwyer get more touches and a lot more off tackle runs.

for the OL expert, wouldn't a trap work given how our interior OL gets penetrated?

SidSmythe
09-17-2012, 01:13 PM
I like REDMAN, but he needs some holes. But after watching DWYER run with some power, I think Dwyer is our best option at RB

Eich
09-17-2012, 01:44 PM
I haven't changed my opinion on the matter. I think both Redman and Dwyer run HARDER than Mendy and have a better shot at making something out of nothing. Mendy has a few better moves and more speed and can take one to the house if he gets into the secondary.

If there is no hole Redman/Dwyer > Mendy.

Overall, the weakest link in our run game is the offensive line. Redman's average was killed by the number of times there was someone in the backfield immediately after he got the ball.

hawaiiansteel
09-17-2012, 01:54 PM
Post-Jets thoughts

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2012
by Dale Lolley

@ The Steelers scrapped their outside running attack in the second half and started running right at the Jets.

It says here they should continue along that path until Rashard Mendenhall comes back and shows he's healthy.

Isaac Redman and Jonathan Dwyer are not east-west runners.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-17-2012, 02:49 PM
Yeah, that's the crazy part - with this [B minus at best] grade OL, and runners that really are only any good going north/south (thus exposing them to all the consequences of the OL's faults) ... we STILL burn 10 min off the clock in the 4th qrtr.

How does that happen?

I don't care, I just say ... WHOOOOOOT!!!!!!

Oviedo
09-17-2012, 03:05 PM
I haven't changed my opinion on the matter. I think both Redman and Dwyer run HARDER than Mendy and have a better shot at making something out of nothing. Mendy has a few better moves and more speed and can take one to the house if he gets into the secondary.

If there is no hole Redman/Dwyer > Mendy.

Overall, the weakest link in our run game is the offensive line. Redman's average was killed by the number of times there was someone in the backfield immediately after he got the ball.


Still got Foster on the OL. The interior of the OL did not move the Jets off the LOS, but there was a lot of penetration from Fosters side. Either he's the problem or Pouncey. I tend to believe the former. BTW Colon wasn't a world beater either.

Slapstick
09-17-2012, 03:11 PM
When the rubber met the road, as Tomlin says, Redman and Dwyer were able to get it done...

On the last drive, Redman had a 10 yard carry, a 14 yard catch and run, a 6 yard carry and a short TD run where he was met in the backfield but still scored...

Dwyer added a 4 yard carry and a 7 yard carry on that drive as well...

lloydroid
09-17-2012, 03:12 PM
The beauty about the whole thing is that even with a patchwork OL we are still getting it done. This backfield by committee is the flexibility we need to keep wearing teams down. I love that stat in the 4th... 10+ min. drive. Granted we had help with some mental mistakes by gang green but this D we faced today aint no slouch.

They were minus Revis, their best player. He would have made a difference. Who knows if we would have been as successful with him taking away our best WR and locking down half the field. They could have committed another safety to the rush if they had Revis out there.

RuthlessBurgher
09-17-2012, 03:21 PM
They were minus Revis, their best player. He would have made a difference. Who knows if we would have been as successful with him taking away our best WR and locking down half the field. They could have committed another safety to the rush if they had Revis out there.

And if we had James Harrison and Troy Polamalu at full health, we might have held the Jets to minus 10 points.

Slapstick
09-17-2012, 03:22 PM
Not to mention DeCastro...

fordfixer
09-17-2012, 03:26 PM
And if we had James Harrison and Troy Polamalu at full health, we might have held the Jets to minus 10 points.

Wont happen as long as DL is our DC;)

Snatch98
09-17-2012, 04:09 PM
Still think it's Dwyer over Redman?

I. Redman 12 / 25 yds
J. Dwyer 12 / 28 yds.

These running backs are interchangeable and I don't see one taking it away from the other based on two games played.

Are you kidding? If not for the TERRIBLE tackling courtesy of the New York Jets those second effort runs by Redman don't happen. Dwyer has better vision, better feet and can actually make people miss. Redman is a battering ram. Once our o-line is situated Dwyer is going to be a exceptional compliment to Mendenhall, hell he may prove to be better. I thought Redman looked putrid yesterday even with the TD run.

Slapstick
09-17-2012, 08:02 PM
Are you kidding? If not for the TERRIBLE tackling courtesy of the New York Jets those second effort runs by Redman don't happen. Dwyer has better vision, better feet and can actually make people miss. Redman is a battering ram. Once our o-line is situated Dwyer is going to be a exceptional compliment to Mendenhall, hell he may prove to be better. I thought Redman looked putrid yesterday even with the TD run.

If you say so...

But, Dwyer looked equally "putrid" yesterday...

Perhaps he could have used some "second effort"...

eniparadoxgma
09-17-2012, 09:53 PM
I haven't changed my opinion on the matter. I think both Redman and Dwyer run HARDER than Mendy and have a better shot at making something out of nothing. Mendy has a few better moves and more speed and can take one to the house if he gets into the secondary.

If there is no hole Redman/Dwyer > Mendy.

Overall, the weakest link in our run game is the offensive line. Redman's average was killed by the number of times there was someone in the backfield immediately after he got the ball.

:Agree:Agree

eniparadoxgma
09-17-2012, 09:57 PM
Are you kidding? If not for the TERRIBLE tackling courtesy of the New York Jets those second effort runs by Redman don't happen. Dwyer has better vision, better feet and can actually make people miss. Redman is a battering ram. Once our o-line is situated Dwyer is going to be a exceptional compliment to Mendenhall, hell he may prove to be better. I thought Redman looked putrid yesterday even with the TD run.

We apparently see different things. I think Redman is more elusive than Dwyer, but that they're both more "battering ram" type of backs. In the first two games I've been pleasantly surprised by Redman being able to spin out of tackles and keep the run alive as well as both him and Dwyer bouncing runs to the outside when there are no holes open, since I used to think of Redman as just a north/south type of runner.

Chadman
09-17-2012, 10:09 PM
If we are going to see the Steelers minus Mendenhall next season, Chadman believes one of two things needs to happen:

1. Dwyer becomes are #1 RB with Redman as the short yardage thumper & Rainey the 3rd down RB. Dwyer has more 'upside' in his running style- we are seeing already what Redman brings to the table- seems to run hard, noth/south... but doesn't really look like he can take it up a level. Not saying it's a bad thing- just think Redman is limited. Dwyer has better feet, looks faster, more decisive. Looks more capable. There's talent there.

2. Draft a workhorse RB. Have Dwyer & Redman battle it out for the short yardage role. Have Rainey as the 3rd down guy. If Dwyer can't prove to be 'the guy', then the Steelers need to get a RB that can carry the load. Along with Safety, this could be the position of greatest need next season.

hawaiiansteel
09-18-2012, 02:52 AM
Steelers Notebook: Running game remains just a bit out of step

September 17, 2012
By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers improved to 1-1 after their 27-10 victory against the New York Jets Sunday at Heinz Field, but after two games they're still searching for a running game.

After rushing for 75 yards on 26 carries in the opening-week loss at Denver, the Steelers rushed for just 66 yards on 28 carries against the Jets.

The Steelers are averaging just 2.6 yards per carry this season. The leading rusher Sunday was Jonathan Dwyer, who had 28 yards on 12 carries.

The Steelers had six negative run plays, including four on their first two drives when they settled for field goals.

"I take some responsibility for that," said Willie Colon, the starting left guard who is making the transition after playing right tackle for the past six years. "I wasn't clean on a lot of my pulls. We have to be a lot more efficient mechanically up front. Those are all things that will come."

The alarming aspect of those negative yardage plays was the amount of yardage lost. Isaac Redman was tackled for a 7-yard loss on the second play from scrimmage. Later in the drive on second-and-four, he was tackled for a 3-yard loss. The Steelers had to settle for a field goal.

In the third quarter, Dwyer was tackled for a 6-yard loss on second-and-10. That play did not hurt the Steelers because quarterback Ben Roethlisberger threw a 37-yard touchdown pass to Mike Wallace on third-and-16 to make the score 20-10.

The line did go out on a high note when the offense possessed the ball for a 14-play, 75-yard drive that ate up 10:13 in the fourth quarter. That drive culminated with a Redman 2-yard touchdown run that made the score 27-10.

On that drive the running backs accounted for 29 yards, nearly half of the game's total rushing yards.

"When it came down to it the offensive line played a good game," Dwyer said. "We had some big plays in the passing game that helped us have holes. At the end of the day, that's when it counts. You want to close the game out. We made it count. We stepped up to the challenge."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-notebook-running-game-remains-just-a-bit-out-of-step-653725/#ixzz26nCR8Bid

steelblood
09-18-2012, 07:33 AM
We need to be able to get a consistent 4 yards on 1st or 2nd down running the ball. That would take a lot of pressure off of Ben. But, I like the way the running backs are playing. The effort is certainly there.

BradshawsHairdresser
09-18-2012, 08:35 AM
The Steelers had six negative run plays, including four on their first two drives when they settled for field goals.

"I take some responsibility for that," said Willie Colon, the starting left guard who is making the transition after playing right tackle for the past six years. "I wasn't clean on a lot of my pulls. We have to be a lot more efficient mechanically up front. Those are all things that will come."

None of our RBs looked very good until the final drive, but the discussion ought to be about the crappy run blocking. Colon was supposed to be all-world when he got his chance at guard. He was overrated as a tackle, IMO, and so far, he's been a disappointment at guard. Hope that changes (and it might; after all, he's still new to the position).

What I see is that, in spite of all the talk about upgrading our OL, our run blocking is worse than ever.

NorthCoast
09-18-2012, 07:49 PM
None of our RBs looked very good until the final drive, but the discussion ought to be about the crappy run blocking. Colon was supposed to be all-world when he got his chance at guard. He was overrated as a tackle, IMO, and so far, he's been a disappointment at guard. Hope that changes (and it might; after all, he's still new to the position).

What I see is that, in spite of all the talk about upgrading our OL, our run blocking is worse than ever.

I agree Bradshaw. All three have their strong points, and all three have weaknesses. I see them as interchangeable right now with the blocking that is occurring (or not occurring) on the OL. I think most are wishing it will get better with Mendy, but I don't see it as a given. The cries of "Spindenhall" still ring in my ears from last season.