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Steelhere10
09-13-2012, 08:11 PM
Woodley only rushed the passer 4 times in the second half. Posted on Black n Gold radio. Don't shoot me shoot the messenger .

RuthlessBurgher
09-13-2012, 09:09 PM
Woodley only rushed the passer 4 times in the second half. Posted on Black n Gold radio. Don't shoot me shoot the messenger .

In the 3rd quarter, the Broncos only had the ball one time, and the scoring drive took all of 2 plays (the WR screen Thomas ran 71 yards for a TD).

In the 4th quarter, they had a 10 play TD drive featuring 7 passes and 3 runs, a 12 play FG drive featuring 3 passes, 8 runs, and the FG kick, and then the final Denver possession was in victory formation in which Manning kneeled down twice.

There aren't a lot of opportunities to rush the passer in the 2nd half when your opponent has a 2 play drive, one pass-heavy drive, one run-heavy drive, and a couple of kneel downs and that's it. Plus, every one of Peyton's passes in the 2nd half were classified as short passes (i.e. get it out of my hands quick to negate the pass rush). In fact, in the entire game Peyton only attempted 2 passes that were deemed to be deep throw (an incompletion in the first quarter on 3rd and 17, and a 20 yard completion to Thomas on 1st and 10 in the 2nd quarter. After getting sacked twice early on, it looks like Peyton was doing whatever he could to get the ball out of his hands quick.

hawaiiansteel
09-13-2012, 09:57 PM
Woodley only rushed the passer 4 times in the second half. Posted on Black n Gold radio. Don't shoot me shoot the messenger .

I read somewhere that Woodley was in pass coverage 17 of the 26 times that Peyton went back to pass.

it's hard to get to the QB when you're mostly dropping into coverage...

SDSteel1
09-13-2012, 11:06 PM
In the 3rd quarter, the Broncos only had the ball one time, and the scoring drive took all of 2 plays (the WR screen Thomas ran 71 yards for a TD).

In the 4th quarter, they had a 10 play TD drive featuring 7 passes and 3 runs, a 12 play FG drive featuring 3 passes, 8 runs, and the FG kick, and then the final Denver possession was in victory formation in which Manning kneeled down twice.

There aren't a lot of opportunities to rush the passer in the 2nd half when your opponent has a 2 play drive, one pass-heavy drive, one run-heavy drive, and a couple of kneel downs and that's it. Plus, every one of Peyton's passes in the 2nd half were classified as short passes (i.e. get it out of my hands quick to negate the pass rush). In fact, in the entire game Peyton only attempted 2 passes that were deemed to be deep throw (an incompletion in the first quarter on 3rd and 17, and a 20 yard completion to Thomas on 1st and 10 in the 2nd quarter. After getting sacked twice early on, it looks like Peyton was doing whatever he could to get the ball out of his hands quick.

The problem is there are only 5 eligible receivers to cover, we have 4 DBs and 4 LBs, and Wood is the biggest and arguably the slowest in coverage. His strength is rushing the passer. Although we try to be sneaky by rushing different personnel, obviously offenses have picked up on what Woods responsibilities are and taking advantage of keeping him out of the backfield. Lebeau needs to recognize this and adjust the scheme.

birtikidis
09-13-2012, 11:54 PM
I saw a few more db blitzes than normal. Manning gets rid of the ball quickly, into the short zone. Underneath coverage is key. That's why our lbs dropped more.

SDSteel1
09-14-2012, 12:43 AM
I saw a few more db blitzes than normal. Manning gets rid of the ball quickly, into the short zone. Underneath coverage is key. That's why our lbs dropped more.

Well maybe we should be rolling Foot over there, or pulling a safety up into that zone and let Wood do what he does best.

Oviedo
09-14-2012, 08:11 AM
I read somewhere that Woodley was in pass coverage 17 of the 26 times that Peyton went back to pass.

it's hard to get to the QB when you're mostly dropping into coverage...

That's because offenses have figured out our defense and know that if you leak a receiver into those areas, Woodley and Harrison will drop into coverage and you only have to deal with a three man rush who are taught to impede the OL first on a stop the run first read and only secondarily go after the QB

You need more ILB, CB or Safety blitzes to counter that. For whatever reason we have done less of those the past few seasons.

Oviedo
09-14-2012, 08:13 AM
Well maybe we should be rolling Foot over there, or pulling a safety up into that zone and let Wood do what he does best.

How about doing like Clay Matthews does and move Woodley around from left to right to in the middle so you have more difficult time setting up your protection. It got Matthews 3.5 sacks last night. Sorry, silly me it isn't part of the defensive template.

Slapstick
09-14-2012, 08:38 AM
Since the 70s, how many Super Bowls have the Steelers been to without LeBeau calling the defense?

0

Even in XXX, it was LeBeau calling the D...

But, you're right...he's too predictable, teams have figured him out...the game has passed him by...:rolleyes:

phillyesq
09-14-2012, 08:40 AM
How about doing like Clay Matthews does and move Woodley around from left to right to in the middle so you have more difficult time setting up your protection. It got Matthews 3.5 sacks last night. Sorry, silly me it isn't part of the defensive template.

Though we obviously disagree about Lebeau, I do agree with you on this one. I would like to see the pass rushers deployed from different places more often. DL does move Harrison around, but not Woodley. I'm not entirely sure why.

When both are back, I'd like to see some packages with both rushing from the same side, or even this week, with Woodley and Worilds on the same side.

Oviedo
09-14-2012, 09:54 AM
Though we obviously disagree about Lebeau, I do agree with you on this one. I would like to see the pass rushers deployed from different places more often. DL does move Harrison around, but not Woodley. I'm not entirely sure why.

When both are back, I'd like to see some packages with both rushing from the same side, or even this week, with Woodley and Worilds on the same side.

Logically, if you agree with me that we should be doing the moving around and deploying rushers different ways, how do you disagree with me that LeBeau has quit innovating and refuses to change and is comfortable just putting out his standard template. It would seem that you are actually agreeing with me but just don't want to criticize the only person who can implement those changes and refuses to.

Isn't that really the difference between me and others. We all see the problems and flaws but emotional feelings towards a legend prevent many from identifying the source of those problems and the only place they can be fixed but refuses to be fixed?

phillyesq
09-14-2012, 10:32 AM
Logically, if you agree with me that we should be doing the moving around and deploying rushers different ways, how do you disagree with me that LeBeau has quit innovating and refuses to change and is comfortable just putting out his standard template. It would seem that you are actually agreeing with me but just don't want to criticize the only person who can implement those changes and refuses to.

Isn't that really the difference between me and others. We all see the problems and flaws but emotional feelings towards a legend prevent many from identifying the source of those problems and the only place they can be fixed but refuses to be fixed?

I think DL made a major change last year. We saw more press man - especially against NE - than we've ever seen. Ironically, had the Steelers used the more traditional soft zones on the outside against Denver, that game might have turned out differently.

I would like to see different tweaks here and there. What I don't want is to see the entire system scrapped.

Oviedo
09-14-2012, 10:48 AM
I think DL made a major change last year. We saw more press man - especially against NE - than we've ever seen. Ironically, had the Steelers used the more traditional soft zones on the outside against Denver, that game might have turned out differently.

I would like to see different tweaks here and there. What I don't want is to see the entire system scrapped.

My concern is "can the system really work anymore?" Your dominant pass rusher can't get on the field because of an injury. The other bookend can't put two consistently good games together. Our LB depth is pencil thin and "the system" requires that to be the strength. I'm just not convinced the system can be sustained given that more than half the league is looking for the same elite 3-4 players we are and many draft draft much higher than us and even if we get one we take 2-3 years to get them to a level we want them to perform at and on the field on a regular contributing basis.

Slapstick
09-14-2012, 11:31 AM
My concern is "can the system really work anymore?" Your dominant pass rusher can't get on the field because of an injury. The other bookend can't put two consistently good games together. Our LB depth is pencil thin and "the system" requires that to be the strength. I'm just not convinced the system can be sustained given that more than half the league is looking for the same elite 3-4 players we are and many draft draft much higher than us and even if we get one we take 2-3 years to get them to a level we want them to perform at and on the field on a regular contributing basis.

"The system" was, last year, #1 against the pass...more importantly, "the system" allowed fewer points than any other team's system...

And that was without their top two pass rushers for a total of 11 games...there were not as many turnovers created as we are used to and not as many sacks either...

"The system" is what masks such losses...you can't substitute for talent, but you can cover for much of that loss by executing a good system...

RuthlessBurgher
09-14-2012, 12:32 PM
My concern is "can the system really work anymore?" Your dominant pass rusher can't get on the field because of an injury. The other bookend can't put two consistently good games together. Our LB depth is pencil thin and "the system" requires that to be the strength. I'm just not convinced the system can be sustained given that more than half the league is looking for the same elite 3-4 players we are and many draft draft much higher than us and even if we get one we take 2-3 years to get them to a level we want them to perform at and on the field on a regular contributing basis.

Where are you getting your Jason Pierre-Paul, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora level pass rushers from on the d-line? (because we certainly don't have anyone close to that level right now)

Oviedo
09-14-2012, 12:35 PM
Where are you getting your Jason Pierre-Paul, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora level pass rushers from on the d-line? (because we certainly don't have anyone close to that level right now)

Do we really know that given how our DL is mandated to play? You are simply observing the results of a system that limits what they can do in terms of rushing the passer. If you turned them loose what would happen? You can disagree, but I suspect we could be surprised by what Hood, Heyward and even Kiesel could do.

RuthlessBurgher
09-14-2012, 12:42 PM
Do we really know that given how our DL is mandated to play? You are simply observing the results of a system that limits what they can do in terms of rushing the passer. If you turned them loose what would happen? You can disagree, but I suspect we could be surprised by what Hood, Heyward and even Kiesel could do.

In nickel and dime defenses (which tend to be used more often than our base 3-4 against pass-happy teams these days), we use a 4 man front in which those guys are pass-rushers (not just space eaters). Where are the sacks from Hood, Heyward, and Keisel on these passing downs?

Aaron Smith had a couple of 8 sack seasons earlier in his career in this same (and it wasn't nearly as pass-happy back then, so we didn't utilize nickel/dime specialty defenses as much back in those days).

Dee Dub
09-14-2012, 01:11 PM
Woodley only rushed the passer 4 times in the second half. Posted on Black n Gold radio. Don't shoot me shoot the messenger .

I have been on this forum for years saying this. I have even broken down the numbers on games and how often the LB's rush the passer. And I have even given the explanation why LeBeau does this. It is rather a simple answer. Anyone wanna tell him what it is? :HeadBanger

Dee Dub
09-14-2012, 01:12 PM
That's because offenses have figured out our defense and know that if you leak a receiver into those areas, Woodley and Harrison will drop into coverage and you only have to deal with a three man rush who are taught to impede the OL first on a stop the run first read and only secondarily go after the QB

You need more ILB, CB or Safety blitzes to counter that. For whatever reason we have done less of those the past few seasons.

...and this is not the answer.

ikestops85
09-15-2012, 11:31 PM
...and this is not the answer.

You can keep telling them but some people will never get it. They figure because DL is old he must have lost it. His system is bad which is why half the NFL has moved to it. Somehow these people "know" that LeBeau prevents our lineman from rushing the QB. They think he hasn't figured out that this is a passing league. They think all we have to do is rush the people they tell us to and we will set a league record for sacks. Some people just amaze me.

Shawn
09-16-2012, 10:34 AM
I read somewhere that Woodley was in pass coverage 17 of the 26 times that Peyton went back to pass.

it's hard to get to the QB when you're mostly dropping into coverage...

And Wood is very average in coverage.

birtikidis
09-16-2012, 11:01 AM
It doesn't matter if he was the next jack ham in coverage. A qb like manning is going to get his catches. He's also going to get the ball out consistently quicker than a pass rusher will get to him.