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View Full Version : We need better corners.



devils
09-11-2012, 09:29 PM
We have to get a free agent corner next year and also draft one early next year. These guys were a joke sunday night, and denver wr's are no studs.

pfelix73
09-11-2012, 09:34 PM
Yup. Agreed. I've been saying this for years now.

birtikidis
09-11-2012, 09:50 PM
Manning makes mediocre receivers studs. The rules also help the receivers a ****ton

Shawn
09-11-2012, 11:39 PM
Our DBs are just fine.

BURGH86STEEL
09-11-2012, 11:44 PM
Good luck finding 2 or 3 DB's that live up to the lofty expectations of fans.

Discipline of Steel
09-12-2012, 04:27 AM
NFL record 5 teams scored over 40 points this opening weekend. The league is way out of balance, no thank you very much Rog.

Steelhere10
09-12-2012, 06:55 AM
We need a better D coordinator.

NorthCoast
09-12-2012, 07:01 PM
NFL record 5 teams scored over 40 points this opening weekend. The league is way out of balance, no thank you very much Rog.

We may as well get used to it; it's what the Commish believes we want to see on Sundays. It really doesn't make sense to blow a wad on CBs. The rules don't favor it. It probably makes more sense to upgrade offense and just outscore the other guy by a bunch.

rockonsteel
09-13-2012, 09:31 AM
Our DBs are just fine.


Our DB's are never within 5 yds of receivers when they catch the ball. They allow so much seperation it's ridiculous. They NEVER break on balls. Only INTs they get is when a QB makes a major mistake and throws it right to somebody or it's deflected by a LB. And I get so tired of watching our guys getting spun around like a spinning top and then chasing the route. I watch other teams' DBs breaking on passes all game, resulting in mmultiple INTs and PBUs. I dont think it's too much to ask for DBs that actually make plays on the ball occassionally. Apparently, though, around these parts, maybe it is.

I too would like to believe, "our DBs will be just fine." But until they start to actually make some plays on balls in the air, they are below average at best.

Rockon

phillyesq
09-13-2012, 09:39 AM
It wasn't a great day for the DBs, but Ike Taylor is fine against pretty much everybody except for the Broncos. Cortez Allen didn't have his best day, either, but I think he'll also be fine.

Lewis I think will be average. I'm not expecting big things from him, but I don't think he'll be a liability, either.

Oviedo
09-13-2012, 10:10 AM
We may as well get used to it; it's what the Commish believes we want to see on Sundays. It really doesn't make sense to blow a wad on CBs. The rules don't favor it. It probably makes more sense to upgrade offense and just outscore the other guy by a bunch.

Attendance, viewership, revenues and popularity are higher than ever so I think the Commish is providing exactly what the broad population wants. Why would the league ever consider changing anything. The days of the Steel Curtain are gone forever and will never come back because the younger fans raised on Madden want action and high scoring not low scoring trench fighting.

Many of us Steelers fans just need to realize that the notion of "Steelers Football" is long dead and won't rise from the dead...Adapt or die.

Oviedo
09-13-2012, 10:15 AM
Our DB's are never within 5 yds of receivers when they catch the ball. They allow so much seperation it's ridiculous. They NEVER break on balls. Only INTs they get is when a QB makes a major mistake and throws it right to somebody or it's deflected by a LB. And I get so tired of watching our guys getting spun around like a spinning top and then chasing the route. I watch other teams' DBs breaking on passes all game, resulting in mmultiple INTs and PBUs. I dont think it's too much to ask for DBs that actually make plays on the ball occassionally. Apparently, though, around these parts, maybe it is.

I too would like to believe, "our DBs will be just fine." But until they start to actually make some plays on balls in the air, they are below average at best.

Rockon

It's not a coincidence that our INTs are way down. If you aren't near the ball you can't intercept the ball. Keep in mind we have drafted Cornerbacks who are best suited for zone schemes and helping in stopping the run. Unfortunately, with the proliferation of passing stopping the run is a less critical skillset as opposed to being able to play tight press coverage. The results shouldn't surprise anyone. Our ace in the hole has always been our pass rush which forced QBs to throw before they wanted to, but that is a non factor anymore.

The reality is that with the rules even DBs who are much better at man to man coverage than our DBs struggle to cover WRs.

rockonsteel
09-13-2012, 10:38 AM
It's not a coincidence that our INTs are way down. If you aren't near the ball you can't intercept the ball. Keep in mind we have drafted Cornerbacks who are best suited for zone schemes and helping in stopping the run. Unfortunately, with the proliferation of passing stopping the run is a less critical skillset as opposed to being able to play tight press coverage. The results shouldn't surprise anyone. Our ace in the hole has always been our pass rush which forced QBs to throw before they wanted to, but that is a non factor anymore.

The reality is that with the rules even DBs who are much better at man to man coverage than our DBs struggle to cover WRs.

No doubt. What you point out is all true, but we need playmakers in the secondary, period. We need a playmaking FS, with range to get to balls in the air, and at least one playmaking CB, though two would be better. I'm sick of watching teams play pitch and catch against our secondary, and never have to even worry about the threat of having passes intercepted.

When was the last time the Steelers defense made a big play to seal the game the way Tracy Porter did on Sunday Night for Denver? Deshea Townsend in '08 against Dallas. Troy against the Ravens in the playoffs, IIRC, the same year? Did they have any at all last year? I honestly can't remember. I mean teams get 2 and 3 pick 6's in a game sometimes. The Steelers are lucky if they get 1 or 2 in a season. That's not really a good look.


Rockon

Oviedo
09-13-2012, 11:45 AM
No doubt. What you point out is all true, but we need playmakers in the secondary, period. We need a playmaking FS, with range to get to balls in the air, and at least one playmaking CB, though two would be better. I'm sick of watching teams play pitch and catch against our secondary, and never have to even worry about the threat of having passes intercepted.

When was the last time the Steelers defense made a big play to seal the game the way Tracy Porter did on Sunday Night for Denver? Deshea Townsend in '08 against Dallas. Troy against the Ravens in the playoffs, IIRC, the same year? Did they have any at all last year? I honestly can't remember. I mean teams get 2 and 3 pick 6's in a game sometimes. The Steelers are lucky if they get 1 or 2 in a season. That's not really a good look.

Rockon



We are singing the same song. I absolutely think we need a different type of DB but that won't help us this season and I'm not sure we get that type of player as long as the current D Corrd is calling the shots. LeBeau like DBs who are effective coming up and stopping the run. That is why Ryan Clark plays such a key role on this team. It is also Troy's strength. If you want a DB who excells at stopping the pass then we are going to have to draft those guys and that will take time.

That said about the DBs, don't underestimate the importance of the pass rush. We had the fewest sacks we had in 21 years last year. If we don't fix that first then it won't matter who is playing DB. It all starts with the pass rush in today's NFL. It's no secret that the Giants won the last Super Bowl because they continually pressure the QB and make the QB less effective.

Slapstick
09-13-2012, 12:01 PM
Our CBs are capable of playing press coverage...that type of defense was not called on Sunday...

Shawn
09-13-2012, 12:18 PM
Ike Taylor is still one of the best in the game, and Lewis will be just fine against a non HoF QB. I agree we need to take some more risks...in press coverage. We have big physical DBs...we need to use em as such.

steelz09
09-13-2012, 12:33 PM
Our DB's are never within 5 yds of receivers when they catch the ball. They allow so much seperation it's ridiculous. They NEVER break on balls. Only INTs they get is when a QB makes a major mistake and throws it right to somebody or it's deflected by a LB. And I get so tired of watching our guys getting spun around like a spinning top and then chasing the route. I watch other teams' DBs breaking on passes all game, resulting in mmultiple INTs and PBUs. I dont think it's too much to ask for DBs that actually make plays on the ball occassionally. Apparently, though, around these parts, maybe it is.

I too would like to believe, "our DBs will be just fine." But until they start to actually make some plays on balls in the air, they are below average at best.

Rockon

I agree but I also think it has a lot to do with our 'Bend, don't break' defense. A lot of these guys play man-to-man in college so I think it's has more to do with our weak zone coverage. That style of defense won't work consistently against the likes of Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, Brady and probably Eli. They will find the open receiver and they will make accurate throws. It seems like for years our secondary has relied on QBs throwing a bad pass, making wrong decisions, or a superior pass rush. That "bend but don't break zone coverage" works for the majority of the QBs in the league because we'll force them to make those bad throws. The elite QBs are a different story. They'll tear us up in the passing game and history proves that.

The only exception in recent memory was last year against the Pats. We played a bump and run, man coverage that day and Brady struggled especialy in the 1st half. For YEARS, Brady torched us because of our coverage scheme. He'll tear us up 5 to 10 yards at a time if we give their WRs a cushion and play the "bend but don't break zone". Brees, Bardy, Manning(s), Rodgers will do the same.

rockonsteel
09-13-2012, 12:59 PM
We are singing the same song. I absolutely think we need a different type of DB but that won't help us this season and I'm not sure we get that type of player as long as the current D Corrd is calling the shots. LeBeau like DBs who are effective coming up and stopping the run. That is why Ryan Clark plays such a key role on this team. It is also Troy's strength. If you want a DB who excells at stopping the pass then we are going to have to draft those guys and that will take time.

That said about the DBs, don't underestimate the importance of the pass rush. We had the fewest sacks we had in 21 years last year. If we don't fix that first then it won't matter who is playing DB. It all starts with the pass rush in today's NFL. It's no secret that the Giants won the last Super Bowl because they continually pressure the QB and make the QB less effective.

Not much to argue with there. You're right, we are singing the same song. Any way we can get it onto DL's Ipod? It's just so frustrating watching the secondary play passive catch and tackle all the time. QBs throw the ball all over the lot against the Steelers with abandon, and without fear of retribution from the Steelers in terms of taking the ball away. And yes, the weak pass rush they've demonstrated over the last year, is just as much to blame as the DBs.


Rockon

rockonsteel
09-13-2012, 01:02 PM
I agree but I also think it has a lot to do with our 'Bend, don't break' defense. A lot of these guys play man-to-man in college so I think it's has more to do with our weak zone coverage. That style of defense won't work consistently against the likes of Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, Brady and probably Eli. They will find the open receiver and they will make accurate throws. It seems like for years our secondary has relied on QBs throwing a bad pass, making wrong decisions, or a superior pass rush. That "bend but don't break zone coverage" works for the majority of the QBs in the league because we'll force them to make those bad throws. The elite QBs are a different story. They'll tear us up in the passing game and history proves that.

The only exception in recent memory was last year against the Pats. We played a bump and run, man coverage that day and Brady struggled especialy in the 1st half. For YEARS, Brady torched us because of our coverage scheme. He'll tear us up 5 to 10 yards at a time if we give their WRs a cushion and play the "bend but don't break zone". Brees, Bardy, Manning(s), Rodgers will do the same.


Yeah, would love to see LeBeau go with a more aggressive approach with secondary. But, guess it's just not DL's MO.

They must've done so well against NE, that maybe LeBeau didn't wanna give them a chance to have a bad game using it. Like a moment frozen in time.


Rockon

phillyesq
09-13-2012, 01:39 PM
Yeah, would love to see LeBeau go with a more aggressive approach with secondary. But, guess it's just not DL's MO.

They must've done so well against NE, that maybe LeBeau didn't wanna give them a chance to have a bad game using it. Like a moment frozen in time.


Rockon

Lebeau is more aggressive with the DBs at times. Ironically, last year against Denver the D would have been better served with the traditional approach (play off, avoid big plays) than with the approach that was used.

The run defense is also an issue. If the Steelers can't stop the run without Troy in the box, there is less safety help available and more risk to press man coverage.

rockonsteel
09-13-2012, 02:07 PM
Lebeau is more aggressive with the DBs at times. Ironically, last year against Denver the D would have been better served with the traditional approach (play off, avoid big plays) than with the approach that was used.

The run defense is also an issue. If the Steelers can't stop the run without Troy in the box, there is less safety help available and more risk to press man coverage.

Yeah, good point about the run defense as well. They looked a hot mess out there. I was watching the replay of the game thinking to myself, the defense looks like they have on magnetic jerseys. Whenever they weren't getting tossed around, they were being gobbled by Denver's O-line. This defense has taken a step back. That's the reason the conservative offensive approach they took to the game was a bad idea. This defense is gonna need a lot of support from the O this year, and run, run, pass, and 14 play drives that end in fgs is not gonna cut it. That is a recipe for disaster. This offense has enough firepower if used properly to make life a little easier on the defense. And I'm not just talking TOP, I'm talking about points, as in TDs! This defense is gonna need all the help it can get.

Rockon

aggiebones
09-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Yes, we should have 4 all pro starting DBs...like everyone else.

pffft

Understand the league dynamics. We will always have some weaknesses. And hopefully the coaching to minimize it.

rockonsteel
09-13-2012, 08:16 PM
Yes, we should have 4 all pro starting DBs...like everyone else.

pffft

Understand the league dynamics. We will always have some weaknesses. And hopefully the coaching to minimize it.

Witty sarcasm notwithstanding, if you can't see that this team needs better play from the CBs, then I'm not sure what to tell ya. Don't need 4 all pros, just gimme some guys that can make a play on a ball every now and then, instead of playing chase and tackle all the damn time.

Rockon

NJ-STEELER
09-14-2012, 12:26 AM
we need secondary players that are better at playing the ball

how INTS were there tonight?? 7? whens the last time we had more then 1 in a game

SidSmythe
09-14-2012, 10:36 AM
Getting Pressure goes hand in hand with "good DBs"
You're only hope in this league is relentless pressure or at least the impression thereof.

I guess the only thing that irks me is seeing a FA guy like Tracy Porter make a splash for his new team the other night. We have 1 FA starter on our team (Ryan Clark)....I get building thru the draft and all but getting a guy here and there who can make an impact would be nice (James Farrior anyone?).

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-14-2012, 11:37 AM
It wasn't a great day for the DBs, but Ike Taylor is fine against pretty much everybody except for the Broncos. Cortez Allen didn't have his best day, either, but I think he'll also be fine.

Lewis I think will be average. I'm not expecting big things from him, but I don't think he'll be a liability, either.

Going back several years, IIRC it was a game against the Broncos that once lost Ike his starting job back in the Cowher days. Again, IIRC, didn't Javon Walker light him up for a monster day?

Keyplay1
09-14-2012, 03:13 PM
It wasn't a great day for the DBs, but Ike Taylor is fine against pretty much everybody except for the Broncos. Cortez Allen didn't have his best day, either, but I think he'll also be fine.

Lewis I think will be average. I'm not expecting big things from him, but I don't think he'll be a liability, either.

idk! he looks like he is going to get a lot of penalties. He's touching and grabbing a lot and its mostly unnecessary. He's been here long enough to start looking for the ball more. idk but if he doesn't work out there do not seem to be any other options so I am rooting for him. My guess! C. Allen Horton, Victorious, SE, AE [somebody else, anybody else] will be playing cb soon. Really hope not though.

NorthCoast
09-15-2012, 09:23 AM
We have to get a free agent corner next year and also draft one early next year. These guys were a joke sunday night, and denver wr's are no studs.

Here we go again. Seems we heard this cry a few years back and guess what, the Steelers solved the problem. The answer is better pass rush aka Harrison and Woodley! When they are on the field together, the secondary is not a problem. The real problem is finding Harrison's replacement and figuring out how to get Woodley to game speed before half the season is over.

birtikidis
09-15-2012, 09:42 AM
Our DB's are never within 5 yds of receivers when they catch the ball. They allow so much seperation it's ridiculous. They NEVER break on balls. Only INTs they get is when a QB makes a major mistake and throws it right to somebody or it's deflected by a LB. And I get so tired of watching our guys getting spun around like a spinning top and then chasing the route. I watch other teams' DBs breaking on passes all game, resulting in mmultiple INTs and PBUs. I dont think it's too much to ask for DBs that actually make plays on the ball occassionally. Apparently, though, around these parts, maybe it is.

I too would like to believe, "our DBs will be just fine." But until they start to actually make some plays on balls in the air, they are below average at best.

Rockon
You think this isn't a league wide issue? Prior to last year only two guys had passed for over 5k yds. Last year four did it, and Eli was really close. It's the rules not the players.

birtikidis
09-15-2012, 09:48 AM
Lebeau is more aggressive with the DBs at times. Ironically, last year against Denver the D would have been better served with the traditional approach (play off, avoid big plays) than with the approach that was used.

The run defense is also an issue. If the Steelers can't stop the run without Troy in the box, there is less safety help available and more risk to press man coverage.
We started off playing our normal scheme. Once Casey and keisel got hurt we had to change. Thin air and no substitutions? Donks woulda just ran down our throat if we played off. No one could have guessed that tebow woulda taken it to us through the air

lloydroid
09-15-2012, 02:07 PM
We have to get a free agent corner next year and also draft one early next year. These guys were a joke sunday night, and denver wr's are no studs.

Not true. D. Thomas is an upcoming beast - has been hurt until now but that dude is huge and fast. Not saying we can't use better CBs though.