PDA

View Full Version : Same 3-4, but...



Oviedo
09-07-2012, 07:54 AM
I'm excited about McLendon. He seem to be a much more dynamic and athletic player than Hampton. I think he is able to much more than just occupy space. If we are going to be stuck with the 3-4 hopefully LeBeau at least opens his eyes and changes how we play it. He needs to turn the DL loose and let guys like McLendon and Ziggy attack the QB and disrupt plays in the backfield. These guys are more than "occupy space" defensive linemen and hopefully we don't waste their talent.

Last year we had the lowest sack total in like 20 years. Don't you think the NFL has maybe figured out how to deal with the OLB rush given that they see it from more than half the teams in the league? With the questions we have at LB which is suppose to be the strength of the 3-4 we need to be willing to change and do it differently. I don't think we can afford to just rely on the OLBs to pressure the QB with the questions we have with Harrison. No pressure on the QB and our defense is very average.

Hopefully LeBeau sees that there is a different way, what are the chances of that happening? Can he still be an innovator?

steelblood
09-07-2012, 08:46 AM
I'm excited about McLendon. He seem to be a much more dynamic and athletic player than Hampton. I think he is able to much more than just occupy space. If we are going to be stuck with the 3-4 hopefully LeBeau at least opens his eyes and changes how we play it. He needs to turn the DL loose and let guys like McLendon and Ziggy attack the QB and disrupt plays in the backfield. These guys are more than "occupy space" defensive linemen and hopefully we don't waste their talent.

Last year we had the lowest sack total in like 20 years. Don't you think the NFL has maybe figured out how to deal with the OLB rush given that they see it from more than half the teams in the league? With the questions we have at LB which is suppose to be the strength of the 3-4 we need to be willing to change and do it differently. I don't think we can afford to just rely on the OLBs to pressure the QB with the questions we have with Harrison. No pressure on the QB and our defense is very average.

Hopefully LeBeau sees that there is a different way, what are the chances of that happening? Can he still be an innovator?

If the preseason is any indication, Hood and McClendon will see time against passing sets and should help pressure the QB more than in the past. Keisel obviously will be in the nickel DT rotation as well. Hopefully more pressure on the inside will open up things for the backers.

MicroBioSteel
09-07-2012, 09:29 AM
I think the traditional 3-4 had it's time in sun but now has to be rethought due to fundamental changes in the game. Since OLBs like James Harrison (small powerful, low center of gravity) have emerged the league has become much more lenient on holding by the tackles. It's difficult and almost impossible for mammoth (large , high center of gravity) tackles to prevent such OLBs from getting into the backfield without holding. This increased holding (without calls) has nullified the effectiveness of the outside rush and therefore the effectiveness of the 3-4. I think our defense could be more effective if we transition to more of a 4-3 base defense. With all the injuries this year to our LBs and the emergent strength of our DL this might be the time to do it. If we can combine this with increased usage of disguised blitzes from our DB's the unpredictability of the defense could be effective. Clearly, Lebeau needs to adapt to factors like injury and age to put those players on the field in the best positions to be effective. In my opinion, we should find ways to create QB pressure up the middle. I can see a future where Timmons contributes to this while coverage LBs like Spence (hope he gets healthy for next year) take care of the hybrid TEs.

This year might have to be a transition year for this defense...maybe we struggle early and then find our grove late in the season. Frankly, I'm expecting some struggles but hoping for the best.

Discipline of Steel
09-07-2012, 09:33 AM
Im expecting the defense to be #1 again as usual.

phillyesq
09-07-2012, 10:22 AM
I'm not ready to write off Casey Hampton quite yet. McClendon was impressive in the Eagles game, and he's shown flashes, but even last year Casey was an above average nose tackle. Even the Ravens said that finding a way to deal with Casey was a key to their running game, and that's part of why they went after his knees so much in the opener.

Hampton and McClendon can be nice complimentary players. McClendon is more in the Hoke mold of being a quicker NT, and he shows an ability to push the pocket from the inside. Especially with Harrison limited early, I wouldn't mind seeing a package of Woodley - Hood - McClendon - Keisel on passing downs. Doubt it will happen, but I think McClendon can provide a nice inside push with Hood.

papillon
09-07-2012, 10:44 AM
I'm excited about McLendon. He seem to be a much more dynamic and athletic player than Hampton. I think he is able to much more than just occupy space. If we are going to be stuck with the 3-4 hopefully LeBeau at least opens his eyes and changes how we play it. He needs to turn the DL loose and let guys like McLendon and Ziggy attack the QB and disrupt plays in the backfield. These guys are more than "occupy space" defensive linemen and hopefully we don't waste their talent.

Last year we had the lowest sack total in like 20 years. Don't you think the NFL has maybe figured out how to deal with the OLB rush given that they see it from more than half the teams in the league? With the questions we have at LB which is suppose to be the strength of the 3-4 we need to be willing to change and do it differently. I don't think we can afford to just rely on the OLBs to pressure the QB with the questions we have with Harrison. No pressure on the QB and our defense is very average.

Hopefully LeBeau sees that there is a different way, what are the chances of that happening? Can he still be an innovator?

Innovation at this point in the maturation of the 43 or 34 defenses is going to be limited. What new wrinkles could be presented that every offensive coordinator in the league hasn't seen from either style of defense? The effectiveness of either defense will depend on the players and not surprising offensive coordinators around the league. You might get a handful of plays per game where you surprise the offense with your call or scheme, but for the most part I believe the brain trust on offense in the NFL will watch tape and know how to attack a defense, any defense. It all comes down to which side of the ball executes best, IMO.

Pappy

Oviedo
09-07-2012, 10:46 AM
I think the traditional 3-4 had it's time in sun but now has to be rethought due to fundamental changes in the game. Since OLBs like James Harrison (small powerful, low center of gravity) have emerged the league has become much more lenient on holding by the tackles. It's difficult and almost impossible for mammoth (large , high center of gravity) tackles to prevent such OLBs from getting into the backfield without holding. This increased holding (without calls) has nullified the effectiveness of the outside rush and therefore the effectiveness of the 3-4. I think our defense could be more effective if we transition to more of a 4-3 base defense. With all the injuries this year to our LBs and the emergent strength of our DL this might be the time to do it. If we can combine this with increased usage of disguised blitzes from our DB's the unpredictability of the defense could be effective. Clearly, Lebeau needs to adapt to factors like injury and age to put those players on the field in the best positions to be effective. In my opinion, we should find ways to create QB pressure up the middle. I can see a future where Timmons contributes to this while coverage LBs like Spence (hope he gets healthy for next year) take care of the hybrid TEs.

This year might have to be a transition year for this defense...maybe we struggle early and then find our grove late in the season. Frankly, I'm expecting some struggles but hoping for the best.

I've been saying the same thing for two years but you won't get too many buyers here.

phillyesq
09-07-2012, 12:48 PM
I think the traditional 3-4 had it's time in sun but now has to be rethought due to fundamental changes in the game. Since OLBs like James Harrison (small powerful, low center of gravity) have emerged the league has become much more lenient on holding by the tackles. It's difficult and almost impossible for mammoth (large , high center of gravity) tackles to prevent such OLBs from getting into the backfield without holding. This increased holding (without calls) has nullified the effectiveness of the outside rush and therefore the effectiveness of the 3-4. I think our defense could be more effective if we transition to more of a 4-3 base defense. With all the injuries this year to our LBs and the emergent strength of our DL this might be the time to do it. If we can combine this with increased usage of disguised blitzes from our DB's the unpredictability of the defense could be effective. Clearly, Lebeau needs to adapt to factors like injury and age to put those players on the field in the best positions to be effective. In my opinion, we should find ways to create QB pressure up the middle. I can see a future where Timmons contributes to this while coverage LBs like Spence (hope he gets healthy for next year) take care of the hybrid TEs.

This year might have to be a transition year for this defense...maybe we struggle early and then find our grove late in the season. Frankly, I'm expecting some struggles but hoping for the best.

Are you suggesting that the Steelers should transform from a 3-4 to a 4-3 on the Friday before the opening week of the season?

phillyesq
09-07-2012, 12:51 PM
I've been saying the same thing for two years but you won't get too many buyers here.

If I recall, during the time of the Colts/Bears Super Bowl, you were calling for a 4-3 Tampa-2 style defense. After last year, you were calling for a 4-3 that attacked more like the Giants.

MicroBioSteel
09-07-2012, 01:59 PM
Are you suggesting that the Steelers should transform from a 3-4 to a 4-3 on the Friday before the opening week of the season?

Actually the team already bounces between 34 and 43 formations right now....I'm just suggesting that more use of the 43 might be more productive given available talent, current injury status, and the way the officials are calling the game.

Slapstick
09-07-2012, 02:37 PM
Actually the team already bounces between 34 and 43 formations right now....I'm just suggesting that more use of the 43 might be more productive given available talent, current injury status, and the way the officials are calling the game.

Considering how much time the Steelers will likely have to spend in Nickel, Big Nickel, Dime and any other passing down packages, I would imagine that the Steelers would naturally use more 4 DL alignments as opposed to 5 LB alignments (like the Packers) simply due to the health and depth of the LBs...

Oviedo
09-07-2012, 03:50 PM
If I recall, during the time of the Colts/Bears Super Bowl, you were calling for a 4-3 Tampa-2 style defense. After last year, you were calling for a 4-3 that attacked more like the Giants.

IMO the Giants have the right recipe. For me it has consistently been about an attacking DL regardless of what they are doin on the backside.

pittpete
09-07-2012, 03:54 PM
Lebeau an innovator?
Guys been washed up for 10 years now:rolleyes:

Oviedo
09-07-2012, 03:58 PM
Lebeau an innovator?
Guys been washed up for 10 years now:rolleyes:

You are too harsh...5 years:stirpot

Slapstick
09-07-2012, 08:08 PM
The whole point of a Tampa 2 defense is an attacking front 4...