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View Full Version : Rainey was a steal in the 5th round!!



devils
08-31-2012, 11:57 AM
Great pick by pittsburgh, now we do not have to worry about brown taking all those extra hits on special teams. Rainey is small,quick, but injury prone and this guy can block punts i think he blocked 7 will with the gators. No doubt he will be another darren sproiles type, the scout people from pittsburgh are like no other gotta be the best at finding late round gems!!

RuthlessBurgher
08-31-2012, 03:51 PM
It's hard to block punts when you are back deep as a threat to take it to the house on punt returns.

flippy
08-31-2012, 05:06 PM
Hopefully he doesn't suffer the knee curse of odd numbered draft picks this year.

Gus
08-31-2012, 05:10 PM
Based on the cuts, it looks like Rainey is the 5th receiver on top of RB and special teams. This frees up a roster spot for another need. I was hoping we would go this way with it.

lloydroid
08-31-2012, 05:13 PM
Pgh is NOT known as brilliant late drafters, at all. They are particularly good at not wasting 1st round picks. But mostly under this regime, 2nd and 3rd day picks are wasted. They are NOT known as genius later round drafters. That is a misnomer.

Just look at their results after the 3rd round. Nothing to brag about. They are FAIL mostly after the 3rd round.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm

Sugar
08-31-2012, 05:17 PM
The kid looked good last night and has earned the trust of the coaches. Let's hope he can bring it when it counts!

NJ-STEELER
08-31-2012, 05:26 PM
Pgh is NOT known as brilliant late drafters, at all. They are particularly good at not wasting 1st round picks. But mostly under this regime, 2nd and 3rd day picks are wasted. They are NOT known as genius later round drafters. That is a misnomer.

Just look at their results after the 3rd round. Nothing to brag about. They are FAIL mostly after the 3rd round.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm

i'm assuming you mean lately.

we've been a consistent threat to win it all since we drafted ben.

how many late rounders do you expect to make a stacked team?

Slapstick
08-31-2012, 05:29 PM
Pgh is NOT known as brilliant late drafters, at all. They are particularly good at not wasting 1st round picks. But mostly under this regime, 2nd and 3rd day picks are wasted. They are NOT known as genius later round drafters. That is a misnomer.

Just look at their results after the 3rd round. Nothing to brag about. They are FAIL mostly after the 3rd round.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm

Their record looks pretty solid to me...

Larry Foote, Brett Keisel, Ike Taylor, Willie Colon, Ryan Mundy and Antonio Brown will all be starting Game 1 this year...that's a pretty good late round representation...

Not to mention undrafted players James Harrison and Isaac Redman...

Eddie Spaghetti
08-31-2012, 05:34 PM
Not to mention undrafted players James Harrison and Isaac Redman...

lets not forget Ramon Foster.

Slapstick
08-31-2012, 05:44 PM
lets not forget Ramon Foster.

Let's not! You are correct...my bad...

lloydroid
08-31-2012, 05:50 PM
i'm assuming you mean lately.

we've been a consistent threat to win it all since we drafted ben.

how many late rounders do you expect to make a stacked team?

I provided the entire list; you can look for yourself that we rarely hit on any picks after the 3rd round, and that includes BEFORE drafting Ben.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm

Facts can be a troubling thing to get past.

Slapstick
08-31-2012, 05:54 PM
I provided the entire list; you can look for yourself that we rarely hit on any picks after the 3rd round, and that includes BEFORE drafting Ben.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm

Facts can be a troubling thing to get past.

Read:


Their record looks pretty solid to me...

Larry Foote, Brett Keisel, Ike Taylor, Willie Colon, Ryan Mundy and Antonio Brown will all be starting Game 1 this year...that's a pretty good late round representation...

Not to mention undrafted players James Harrison and Isaac Redman...


lets not forget Ramon Foster.

Take a look at some of the other NFL teams and you will find a success rate after the 3rd round pretty similar to the Steelers...that's just life in the NFL...

lloydroid
08-31-2012, 06:22 PM
Larry Foote - below average LB
Brett Keisel - nice one
Ike Taylor - definitely good find.
Willie Colon - been hurt for like 3 years and is below average
Ryan Mundy - Hasn't even cracked starting line up, hasn't shown much
Antonio Brown - super find.

And then have the rest of the story.

Toney Clemons,David Paulson, Terrence Frederick, Kelvin Beachum After Rainey, likely NONE of these later players make the team.

Curtis Brown - Has been terrible. Will be cut.
Cortez Allen - Still has hope, we will see
Chris Carter - We will see
Keith Williams - Who?
Baron Batch - Has shown nothing so far

Jason Worilds - bust so far
Emmanuel Sanders - Still waiting to see if he can ever produce and stay healthy. So far, not really.
Thaddeus Gibson - BUST
Chris Scott - garbage
Crezdon Butler - crap
Stevenson Sylvester - showed promise and then what happened?
Jonathan Dwyer - still could hit
Antonio Brown - great late pick, no question
Doug Worthington - who?

Kraig Urbik - Bust
Mike Wallace - super pick
Keenan Lewis - possible hit, we will see in a short while
Joe Burnett - bum
Frank Summers - wasted pick
RaShon Harris - bum
A.Q. Shipley - nothing
David Johnson - so so. Never liked how they used him

Limas Sweed - complete bust
Bruce Davis - horrible pick in every way
Tony Hills - waste
Dennis Dixon - out of football?
Mike Humpal - stinks
Ryan Mundy - Never sees field

Matt Spaeth - bad pick
Daniel Sepulveda - never produced, taken way too high
Ryan McBean - not
Cameron Stephenson - waste
William Gay - not bad value, as it turns out
Dallas Baker - waste of time

Anthony Smith - bust
Willie Reid - bust
Willie Colon - This should be his year if he can finally stay healthy
Orien Harris - bust
Omar Jacobs - bust
Charles Davis - not
Marvin Philip - nope
Cedric Humes - bust

It goes on and on like this. Pgh is NOT any better than other teams with later draft picks and they have even failed on tons of 2nd and 3rd rounders as well. Over all, they get it done, but don't tell me they excel on later day picks, because they really don't.

BigRob
08-31-2012, 06:39 PM
Pathetic analysis. Every team's list would look very similar. The way you judge a team's ability to draft is by their championship history. The Steelers rarely sign bigtime Free Agents and yet they have the second most superbowls in the last decade. I think that speaks for itself.

Slapstick
08-31-2012, 07:08 PM
Larry Foote is a "below average LB" with 2 SB rings...

Who was Mundy going to beat out? Pro Bowler Ryan Clark or DPOY Troy Polamalu?

Worilds isn't a bust...who was he going to beat out? Pro Bowler LaMarr Woodley or DPOY James Harrison? When he's played, he's performed well...

Curtis Brown won't be cut...

Daniel Sepulveda did produce...he just got hurt...a lot...

I understand taking a "Devil's Advocate" position, but at least offer some support for your opinion instead of blanket generalizations...an unsupported sweeping statement generally gets disregarded very quickly...

Sugar
08-31-2012, 07:22 PM
Pathetic analysis. Every team's list would look very similar. The way you judge a team's ability to draft is by their championship history. The Steelers rarely sign bigtime Free Agents and yet they have the second most superbowls in the last decade. I think that speaks for itself.
:Agree I can understand cautious optimism, but the analysis here is maddeningly bad.

NJ-STEELER
08-31-2012, 07:24 PM
Pathetic analysis. Every team's list would look very similar. The way you judge a team's ability to draft is by their championship history. The Steelers rarely sign bigtime Free Agents and yet they have the second most superbowls in the last decade. I think that speaks for itself.


$$

also, they say belichek is a master at drafting yet look at their recent drafts.

tate over wallace

ben troupe and marouney 1st rounders and those are just 2 off the top of my head

lloydroid
09-01-2012, 07:23 PM
Let's not get drunk here. I was addressing the chap who claimed Pgh was better at late drafting than other teams. In reality, that's just not true, and I illustrated the specifics. I never said they "stink at drafting" but just the claim that they were superior late drafters as inaccurate. They don't find any more sleeper picks than most teams, as the evidence clearly demonstrates. They _ARE_ more likely to hit big on the first rounders, than are teams on average, but that was never the assertion. And I have to just laugh: Just because Foot won two super bowl rings it means he is an above average LB? How does that logic work again? :D

DukieBoy
09-01-2012, 07:36 PM
Pathetic analysis. Every team's list would look very similar. The way you judge a team's ability to draft is by their championship history. The Steelers rarely sign bigtime Free Agents and yet they have the second most superbowls in the last decade. I think that speaks for itself.

And

:Agree:Agree

Shallow, frankly disrespectful words attached to many of the players. Look deeper; there are many variables and explanations why some make it and some do not, injuries, coaching, personal problems, immaturity, etc. If all these guys "made it", our roster would have to be about 175 players. It's the intense competition to "make it" in the league that makes NFL football such high quality.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-01-2012, 07:49 PM
interesting that the OP never chimed back in with his 5th post.

its almost like someone is arguing with themselves.

lloydroid
09-03-2012, 02:10 PM
And

:Agree:Agree

Shallow, frankly disrespectful words attached to many of the players. Look deeper; there are many variables and explanations why some make it and some do not, injuries, coaching, personal problems, immaturity, etc. If all these guys "made it", our roster would have to be about 175 players. It's the intense competition to "make it" in the league that makes NFL football such high quality.

So, how many of these players went on to make other teams' rosters? Almost none of them. If they were good picks, some of them would make other teams' rosters. If anything, Pgh is known for poor draft picks in the 2nd half of the draft. Colbert is infamous for misses after the 3rd round. Am I saying Pgh should find hits with every draft pick? Of course not. I am just accurately detailing that they are not more wise than other teams come rounds 4,5, and 6.

Slapstick
09-03-2012, 02:12 PM
So, how many of these players went on to make other teams' rosters? Almost none of them. If they were good picks, some of them would make other teams' rosters. If anything, Pgh is known for poor draft picks in the 2nd half of the draft. Colbert is infamous for misses after the 3rd round. Am I saying Pgh should find hits with every draft pick? Of course not. I am just accurately detailing that they are not more wise than other teams come rounds 4,5, and 6.

So then, what is your definition of success?

The fact that Steelers' draft picks through rounds 4-7 don't catch on with other teams is hardly shocking...

Most NFL teams would give an opportunity for their own draft picks to make the team before taking late round draft picks from other teams...

lloydroid
09-03-2012, 03:32 PM
So then, what is your definition of success?

The fact that Steelers' draft picks through rounds 4-7 don't catch on with other teams is hardly shocking...

Most NFL teams would give an opportunity for their own draft picks to make the team before taking late round draft picks from other teams...

True, but assertions made of those who claimed those picks didn't stick only because this team was so good no longer holds water; if these players were so good and just didn't stick to PS roster because the team was so good, they would still end up on other teams' rosters, regardless, if they were such great draft picks. Fact is, Pgh is not better at later draft picks than any other teams, which was asserted earlier. I am merely factually illustrating that that is not true. Those later picks of Pgh jumped around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FPimCmbX8

hawaiiansteel
09-03-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm just very glad I'm not a Raiders fan...

Raiders pulling plug on 2011 third-round pick

Posted by Mike Florio on September 3, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/136071635-e1346683458879.jpg?w=250

As Raiders G.M. Reggie McKenzie continues to settle in as the new captain of the team’s front office, he’s not afraid to overturn the decisions of his predecessor, the late Al Davis.

Per a league source, McKenzie and company will be waiving today cornerback DeMarcus Van Dyke.

Van Dyke, a third-round pick in 2011 who appeared in 14 games with four starts last year, fit the former vision for the franchise. He was fast. The fastest man at last year’s Scouting Combine, running the 40-yard dash in 4.28 seconds.

The move comes two days after the Raiders and McKenzie parted ways with cornerback Chimdi Chekwa, a fourth-round pick in 2011 who ran the 40 in 4.33 seconds at the Combine. Both Chekwa and Van Dyke are listed as second-team corners in the Raiders’ most recent depth chart, with Shawntae Spencer and Ron Bartell the starters. Joselio Hanson recently was added to the team, which apparently triggered the decision to dump Van Dyke.

Van Dyke will now hit the waiver wire, with the Colts continuing to have dibs.

The broader message is that McKenzie must see something in the player the team took in the third round of the 2011 supplemental draft, quarterback Terrelle Pryor. Otherwise, he’d be gone, too.

Then again, who knows what the next move from McKenzie will be?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/03/raiders-pulling-plug-on-2011-third-round-pick/

lloydroid
09-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Al was infatuated with pure speed. And it's not the dumbest thing to value, ever, but he went a little overboard. The reason I would be glad not to be Raider fan is the DeMarcus Russell debacle. When you F up that bad, on the #1 over all pick, you set your franchise back years and years. What a colossal F up.

lloydroid
09-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Back to the original post, why did Rainey last until the late 5th round? I know he's not an every down RB, we all get that. But considering what else he brings to the table, how did so many teams miss out on grabbing him at least by the 4th round? Isn't even a great return man worth taking in the 4th, even if that's all they do? He is going to make splash play after splash play for Pgh. That is becoming obvious.

DukieBoy
09-03-2012, 07:46 PM
So, how many of these players went on to make other teams' rosters? Almost none of them. If they were good picks, some of them would make other teams' rosters. If anything, Pgh is known for poor draft picks in the 2nd half of the draft. Colbert is infamous for misses after the 3rd round. Am I saying Pgh should find hits with every draft pick? Of course not. I am just accurately detailing that they are not more wise than other teams come rounds 4,5, and 6.

No, you did not accurately detail any comparison, in part because you gave no information about other teams drafts. Your summary of the players reflects opinions you have but almost no objective measurable facts. The Steelers, fielding a team based highly upon the draft, have been nearly annually a playoff team. That presents an effective draft record overall, and that becomes the proof that matters most to me as a fan. I'd choose to focus on the success, which the Steelers have provided abundantly, relying highly upon the draft.

NJ-STEELER
09-03-2012, 08:30 PM
just watching the carolina game now and bruce campbell is playing LT

a raiders 2010 4th round pick

hawaiiansteel
09-03-2012, 09:09 PM
According to the Steelers’ depth chart, rookie Chris Rainey is the primary kickoff and punt returner after having a pair of long punt returns in a six-minute span wiped out by penalties. Rainey averaged 22 yards on three kickoff returns and 8.7 yards on seven punt returns during the preseason.

— Alan Robinson

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2529697-85/harrison-steelers-captains-captain-knee-punt-returns-chris-denver-isn#ixzz25S22i819

lloydroid
09-03-2012, 10:24 PM
No, you did not accurately detail any comparison, in part because you gave no information about other teams drafts. Your summary of the players reflects opinions you have but almost no objective measurable facts. The Steelers, fielding a team based highly upon the draft, have been nearly annually a playoff team. That presents an effective draft record overall, and that becomes the proof that matters most to me as a fan. I'd choose to focus on the success, which the Steelers have provided abundantly, relying highly upon the draft.

The players noted as busts never played any significant time and found their way out of the NFL in 1-2 years. Ummm, that's pretty objective to me. Just saying "they make the play offs each year so they must draft well in the later rounds" is totally illogical and myopic.

Slapstick
09-04-2012, 08:57 AM
The players noted as busts never played any significant time and found their way out of the NFL in 1-2 years. Ummm, that's pretty objective to me. Just saying "they make the play offs each year so they must draft well in the later rounds" is totally illogical and myopic.

Generally speaking, the Steelers nailed pretty much every first round pick since they screwed the pooch with Troy Edwards in 1999...now, there have been varying degrees of success, of course...not every player is going to be a Troy Polamalu or a Ben Roethlisberger...the fact that they have drafted so well in round 1 is especially noteworthy because they generally choose at a later draft position than most other teams...

Think of the 49ers, for example...they have built a terrific defense, but mostly through expending high draft picks...the high picks were available due to years of sucking...

Now, the Steelers may not draft better overall in the late rounds than other teams, but they certainly do not draft any worse, either...I submit that the true way of measuring how successfully the Steelers draft in the late rounds is not how many draft picks make onto other teams, but how those late round picks perform for the Steelers...

When I have time, I will research the rosters of other teams, but looking just at starting lineups, I would have to say that the Steelers' late round draft picks are at least comparable with other teams:

Offense - Willie Colon (4th round), Antonio Brown (6th round - Pro Bowl), Isaac Redman (UDFA) or Jonathan Dwyer (6th round)

Defense - Brett Keisel (7th round - Pro Bowl), Larry Foote (4th round), James Harrison (UDFA - DPOY), Ike Taylor (4th round)