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View Full Version : How much do you want the steelers to pay wallace?



squidkid
07-20-2012, 03:46 PM
I would like to see some people go on record on the wallace contract subject.
Take into consideration of what you think wallaces brings to the team and how much you are willing to spend on those attributes.
Lets use the length of contract that wallace will most likey see. Dont factor in the last few years of a super backloaded deal that the steelers wont ever pay.


A) 6-6.5 mil per year
B) 6.5-7 mil per year
C) 7-7.5 mil per year
D) 7.5-8 mil per year
E) 8-8.5 mil per year
F) 8.5-9 mil per year
G) 9-9.5 mil per year
H) 9.5-10 mil per year
I) 10-10.5 mil per year
H)10.5 +mil per year

hawaiiansteel
07-20-2012, 04:04 PM
I will go with F) 8.5-9 mil per year

those #s are between what Marques Colsten and Desean Jackson signed for which seems about right to me...

costanza2k1
07-20-2012, 04:18 PM
Incentive based, as he continues to become a complete WR...short to medium routes in particular his contract goes up. He can't base his contract demands on deep ball yardage alone...that didn't help us win the SB when needed the most (see Santonio Holmes)

Eddie Spaghetti
07-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Incentive based, as he continues to become a complete WR...short to medium routes in particular his contract goes up. He can't base his contract demands on deep ball yardage alone...that didn't help us win the SB when needed the most (see Santonio Holmes)

so let me get this straight. Wallace now has to factor in WHERE he catches the ball to determine how much he gets paid? I find that patently absurd and would love to see another contract with that type of language.

I think F is fair. Somewhere around 5 years, 45 million with about half that guaranteed.

SteelCrazy
07-20-2012, 06:05 PM
I dont think he is worth more than 5 mil per. The guy is fast and that allows him to catch the deep ball. Teams have him figured out and it showed at the end of last season. It will continue to show at the beginning of this season.

feltdizz
07-20-2012, 06:26 PM
I wouldn't go above 6.5 mill...

SidSmythe
07-20-2012, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't work out a deal right now b/c of Antonio Brown.
So I'd stay right where we are at and let Wallace and Brown prove this year who's the better WR.
We won't be keeping both and I'd put my money on BROWN to be the better of the two.

D Rock
07-20-2012, 06:47 PM
If Wallace put up his first half stats all last year he would be in the 10-11M/yr range. If he had the stats he had but had put them up in a more consistent fashion he would probably be in the 9-10M/yr range. Because he had a poor 2nd half of last season I think that gives the Steelers a bargaining chip and he should end up in the 8-9M/yr range with incentives that can push that towards the 10-11M if he shows the ability to be dominant for a full season. I'd say 6 years is the ideal contract length as that will take him to the age of 32 and if he is slowing down by them the team will know it and can cut ties, but if he is still cranking out productive seasons then the money he is being paid will be a great deal by that time.

squidkid
07-20-2012, 06:54 PM
B) Is my answer.
I would be okay if the steelers gave him this amount. His speed has to be accounted for for opposing defenses but I dont want to lose more valuable pieces of this team in the near future by giving all our cap to wallace. We keep talking about our 'elite' qb, great TE, super solid wrs, outstanding oline, mendy comimng back and the speed of rainey and batch in the backfield. Do we really need to spend a ton of money on a guy that just runs fast in a straight line? I dont think so.

papillon
07-20-2012, 08:43 PM
Well, as of right now aren't the Steelers about 5 million below the salary cap after releasing Scott the other day? Anything above 5 million then would come at a cost not only monetarily, but the Steelers would also have to release another player in all likelihood to get Wallace under the cap. At this point I'd rather see the Steelers stop negotiating, play the season and see who has the better year, Antonio Brown or Mike Wallace. They are not going to be able to keep both after this year, IMHO. Pay them their salaries, have them compete, pay the winner and chances are the other becomes a free agent and some other team benefits.

Receivers are being churned out in great number form college because of the focus on the passing game in the NFL. More colleges are preparing players for the NFL, good wide receivers can be had in almost any round.

I wouldn't pay him over 6 million per annum, but I don't write the checks or make the decisions; I did however, stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :p

Pappy

steelnavy
07-20-2012, 10:04 PM
Pap, good post. Now whoever secretly reads this site from the Steelers organization will know the right amount to offer Wallace. I am with Steelcrazy on the pay. I really like him and what he can do for the team but he has never impressed me as a well rounded top tier wide receiver. Take away his speed and he is average. I want a guy who will come back after the ball, will fight the defender for it and will try to knock it out of the defenders hands. I didn't see that happen enough. I think he is the Willie Parker of wide receivers. Love him and want him to be a Steeler, but don't want to give him the money he is looking for. And frankly, I don't see many other teams feeling that kind of love either. So in the end, he could be holding out and affecting team chemistry (which hurts both him and the Steelers) for nothing.

And Pap, its Holiday Inn EXPRESS... :D

Sugar
07-20-2012, 10:31 PM
I'll go with G. He's worth that, but I don't know that the Steelers CAN pay what he's worth so hopefully they can be creative and he can give them a break.

It's funny to me how many posters talk about what Wallace wants as if they knew something. How would any of us know what Wallace wants?

Oviedo
07-20-2012, 10:34 PM
start at about $6M in year 1 and work up to about $9M in year 5 or 6

Oviedo
07-20-2012, 10:37 PM
Well, as of right now aren't the Steelers about 5 million below the salary cap after releasing Scott the other day? Anything above 5 million then would come at a cost not only monetarily, but the Steelers would also have to release another player in all likelihood to get Wallace under the cap. At this point I'd rather see the Steelers stop negotiating, play the season and see who has the better year, Antonio Brown or Mike Wallace. They are not going to be able to keep both after this year, IMHO. Pay them their salaries, have them compete, pay the winner and chances are the other becomes a free agent and some other team benefits.

Receivers are being churned out in great number form college because of the focus on the passing game in the NFL. More colleges are preparing players for the NFL, good wide receivers can be had in almost any round.

I wouldn't pay him over 6 million per annum, but I don't write the checks or make the decisions; I did however, stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :p

Pappy

Totally agree!! WRs are too easy to replace. If Wallace balks at the offer, let him play for the tag amount and focus on extending Antonio Brown

steelnavy
07-20-2012, 10:53 PM
I'll go with G. He's worth that, but I don't know that the Steelers CAN pay what he's worth so hopefully they can be creative and he can give them a break.

It's funny to me how many posters talk about what Wallace wants as if they knew something. How would any of us know what Wallace wants?

Its funny how you can't logically infer that he wants A LOT of money from all of the facts that are there in front of you. What else would keep him from signing his contract and showing up? Maybe he's clinically depressed because Mr Roger's died?!?

Sugar
07-20-2012, 11:20 PM
Its funny how you can't logically infer that he wants A LOT of money from all of the facts that are there in front of you. What else would keep him from signing his contract and showing up? Maybe he's clinically depressed because Mr Roger's died?!?

What is "A LOT" of money? Do we even know what either side is offering? Nothing's been reported so it's all anyone's guess.

RuthlessBurgher
07-21-2012, 12:18 PM
Well, as of right now aren't the Steelers about 5 million below the salary cap after releasing Scott the other day? Anything above 5 million then would come at a cost not only monetarily, but the Steelers would also have to release another player in all likelihood to get Wallace under the cap.

That's not true. They could theoretically give him a $5 year $50 million deal with a $20 million signing bonus (I used these numbers to make the math easy). Looks like his cap hit should be $10 million, which we cannot afford with only $5 million worth of space...well that's how it works in hockey, but not in football. They could simply give him a veteran minimum salary for 2012 ($700,000, I believe), plus the pro-rated portion of his signing bonus, which in this case would be $4 million per year. In this example, his cap hit for 2012 would be $4.7 million.

Keyplay1
07-22-2012, 02:52 PM
114

21.2
10.5
63.2
30.7




The above #'s are stats for Wallace. Besides the standard stats this site has some advanced stats. The 114 is the number of times he was targeted. 21.2 %of team targets. 10.5 yds per target
63.2 catch rate [% of targets received]. 30.7 %deep

Targets (Tgts) – The number of pass attempts directed at a particular receiver. Rank 24
Target Percentage (Tgt%) – A receiver’s proportion of his team’s pass attempts targeted to him. Tgt% excludes passes thrown away, passes not intended for any particular receiver, and spikes. Rank 22
Yards per Target (YPT) – A receiver’s average yards gained per pass attempted to him. Rank 11
Catch Rate (CR) – The proportion of passes targeted to a receiver that are caught. Rank 18
Deep Pass Percentage (Deep%) – The proportion of pass targets in which a receiver is greater than 15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. ---Rank 33---

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?year=2011&pos=WR&season=reg

I noticed the link did not change colors. Probably won't work. Simple enough to find the site however.

I initially went there to try and confirm the stat about the Steelers ranking 18th in deep throws. But, then this also caught my eye. A stat I like is the Catch %. Another big surprise [to me] was Hines Ward ranked #2 catching 73% of his targets.

The reason why I did not post the pages to show where he stood in relation to others was it was too much content for the message and would not post. Anyway, the site seems worth checking out.

btw: another surprise. Deep% 33 ??? Not sure if that is a team stat or if the # of times MW was targeted deep.

Keyplay1
07-22-2012, 05:31 PM
Thought it might help to figure what to pay Wallace if the money given some others was known. I had some trouble finding this for 2012 but stumbled on this site.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/dallas-cowboys/wide-receiver/



1
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Miles Austin (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/miles-austin/) at Wide Receiver
$8,166,857


2
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Dez Bryant (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/dez-bryant/) at Wide Receiver
$2,360,000


3
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Kevin Ogletree (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/kevin-ogletree/) at Wide Receiver
$615,000


4
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Danny Coale (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/danny-coale/) at Wide Receiver
$572,513


5
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Dwayne Harris (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/dwayne-harris/) at Wide Receiver
$559,145


6
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Andre Holmes (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/andre-holmes/) at Wide Receiver
$465,000



http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Teddy Williams (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/teddy-williams/) at Wide Receiver
$465,000


8
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Saalim Hakim (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/saalim-hakim/) at Wide Receiver
$48,333





1
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Dez Bryant (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/dez-bryant/) at Wide Receiver
$1,335,000


2
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Miles Austin (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/miles-austin/) at Wide Receiver
$1,150,000


3
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Kevin Ogletree (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/kevin-ogletree/) at Wide Receiver
$615,000


4
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Dwayne Harris (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/dwayne-harris/) at Wide Receiver
$465,000



http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Andre Holmes (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/andre-holmes/) at Wide Receiver
$465,000



http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Teddy Williams (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/teddy-williams/) at Wide Receiver
$465,000


7
http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Danny Coale (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/danny-coale/) at Wide Receiver
$390,000



http://www.spotrac.com/assets/images/thumb/dallas.png (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/)
Saalim Hakim (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/saalim-hakim/) at Wide Receiver
$390,000


Was going to post the base salary and average salary of several teams. GB, NO, PIT etc. but this site takes up too much space. All the teams are there.

flippy
07-22-2012, 08:17 PM
I want them to pay him the least they can so they have as much left over for other players next year. But I also want it to be enough and incentive laden enough to keep Wallace motivated to produce.

I don't want to pay him too much. But I don't want him sulking either. Pay him just right. That's all I ask.

As a Steelers fan, I always want my team to get a deal and every other team to overpay for guys. Whatever positions us to win, that's what I want.

papillon
07-22-2012, 10:57 PM
That's not true. They could theoretically give him a $5 year $50 million deal with a $20 million signing bonus (I used these numbers to make the math easy). Looks like his cap hit should be $10 million, which we cannot afford with only $5 million worth of space...well that's how it works in hockey, but not in football. They could simply give him a veteran minimum salary for 2012 ($700,000, I believe), plus the pro-rated portion of his signing bonus, which in this case would be $4 million per year. In this example, his cap hit for 2012 would be $4.7 million.

The Steelers are still going to have to squeeze DeCastro in as well. Or, does each team get a cap number for rookies that is separate from the rest of the team? His contract will probably have a $750,000 to 1,250,000 cap hit I would think. The Steelers are not in a good position from a cap perspective to give Wallace relatively big money, unless, they can get an extra year added on to the contract and reduce his pro-rated signing bonus. I believe there will be a Mike Wallace to be had in almost every round of future drafts, except maybe the 7th. His contract could haunt the Steelers for a few years if they aren't careful, IMO.

Don't the Steelers have to leave a little room, say 1-2 million in case of injuries, suspensions, etc? I'm by no means a contract negotiator and I don't have all the facts about the Steeler cap situation. Does the current cap number include Wallace's tender? If it does that would add a nice chunk of change for the Steelers to use to help sign Wallace. It would increase the amount they have to spend by the amount of the tender, which is, I believe, $2.75 million right now.

Pappy

D Rock
07-22-2012, 11:58 PM
Here is a link to the WR average salary lists:

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/wide-receiver/

I just went through every team's WR roster and picked out all the guys essentially equal to and above Wallace's production over the past 3 years. Here are their contract averages and years signed:

Better than Wallace:

Roddy White - 8 (2009)
Andre Johnson - 8.957 (2010)
Brandon Marshall - 9.46 (2010)
Larry Fitzgerald - 16.0625 (2011)
Wes Welker - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
Calvin Johnson - 18.8125 (2012)


Pretty much equal to Wallace:

Greg Jennings - 6.72 (2009)
Hakeem Nicks - 2.508 (rookie contract, 2009)
Miles Austin - 8.167 (2010)
Jordy Nelson - 4.45 (pre-breakout season, 2011)
Steve Smith - 9.4375 (2012)
Marques Colston - 7.26 (2012)
Vincent Jackson - 11.1 (2012)
Reggie Wayne - 5.833 (end of career contract, 2012)
Dwayne Bowe - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
Desean Jackson - 10.2 (2012)


Salary for top WRs has pretty much gone up 1 million a year since 2009. Colston is a ridiculous steal fore New Orleans at his price tag, and the Packers locked up Jordy Nelson just in time before he went big last season. Besides that, these numbers certainly show that Wallace is in the 10-11 million/year price range according to his production, and certainly no lower than 9M/year. The Steelers may not offer that...they may not be able to...but this shows that some team would. The only single team that has gotten a good price in the past 2 years was New Orleans with Colston. I don't expect that to happen with Wallace...I still don't know how it happened with Colston.

D Rock
07-23-2012, 01:31 AM
Consider this: In 2014 the team will have about 34 million tied up between Harrison, Woodley, and Timmons, split fairly evenly all around. That's going to be the financial noose around the teams neck if there is one, not any contracts given to Wallace and Brown, which if given will be given knowing the current landscape of the salary cap and CBA. The cap is expected to stay pretty much flat through the 2015 season.

hawaiiansteel
07-23-2012, 01:36 AM
Consider this: In 2014 the team will have about 34 million tied up between Harrison, Woodley, and Timmons, split fairly evenly all around.


I don't believe Deebo will still be playing in 2014...

D Rock
07-23-2012, 01:50 AM
I don't believe Deebo will still be playing in 2014...

Neither do I, but you have to factor in his money now in case he is. If he is cut after the 2013 season, he will still be on the books for the remaining 4,115,500 of his bonus money. It will save the 7,575,000 at that point, but the 4+ million is a lot of dead money. The team has ~9 million this year in dead money. Casey Hampton (5 mil) and Larry Foote (3.6 mil) will be off the books next year, so that is a lot of money that can then go to Antonio Brown for a new contract, and also kick some of it to whatever Wallace needs to be paid.

Here's another upcoming decision: Ike Taylor is getting ~4.3 mil this year in cap space. Next year it jumps way up to 9.5, and in 2014 it is 10.5. Ike will be 33 to start next season. If the three young corners show some skill, it can reasonably be expected that Ike Taylor will be a cap casualty. Willie Colon also jumps almost 5 million next year from 2.85 to 7.7. If the 4 young linemen flash the ability to play to their expected abilities, then Colon likely is too expensive to keep as the oldest and worst of the starting 5.


Moral of the story...there are A LOT of places where the team can find money in the next couple of years if they need it. Farrior, Ward, and Smith are likely just the tip of the iceberg in a total generational shift.

Keyplay1
07-23-2012, 05:00 AM
I wouldn't work out a deal right now b/c of Antonio Brown.
So I'd stay right where we are at and let Wallace and Brown prove this year who's the better WR.
We won't be keeping both and I'd put my money on BROWN to be the better of the two.

This sounds like a good idea. But, how would it be worked out? Yes, it would be nice for the Steelers to get another year to confirm their evaluation of the player but then it could backfire and he could absolutely price himself out of their range.
]
As D Rock has pointed out MW's stat production is very high. I was actually surprised looking at what he has done the past 3 years and in almost all the categories I think are important he is right there with the best of them and in many cases above these top 10 really high priced people. The real Steeler fans though, do know there are still some concerns.

The question is can the Steelers risk losing this player. I don't think so. My guess is he will sign by Thursday afternoon.

Uhh! It's either that or perhaps the rumor that Hines Ward has his dancing shoes in the shoemaker shop getting spikes put on is true. LOL

phillyesq
07-23-2012, 09:45 AM
I go 5 years, 40-42 million, with approximately $18 million guaranteed. The Steelers could essentially keep Wallace for 2 years at $12-13 million, leaving him with no guarantee thereafter. A deal like this pays Wallace better and gives him more security up front, but pays him less than he might make on the open market in the later years.

I'd structure the deal to use as much of the cap as possible for this year, leaving a small allowance to sign an injury replacement if necessary.

flippy
07-23-2012, 10:02 AM
Here is a link to the WR average salary lists:

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/wide-receiver/

I just went through every team's WR roster and picked out all the guys essentially equal to and above Wallace's production over the past 3 years. Here are their contract averages and years signed:

Better than Wallace:

Roddy White - 8 (2009)
Andre Johnson - 8.957 (2010)
Brandon Marshall - 9.46 (2010)
Larry Fitzgerald - 16.0625 (2011)
Wes Welker - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
Calvin Johnson - 18.8125 (2012)


Pretty much equal to Wallace:

Greg Jennings - 6.72 (2009)
Hakeem Nicks - 2.508 (rookie contract, 2009)
Miles Austin - 8.167 (2010)
Jordy Nelson - 4.45 (pre-breakout season, 2011)
Steve Smith - 9.4375 (2012)
Marques Colston - 7.26 (2012)
Vincent Jackson - 11.1 (2012)
Reggie Wayne - 5.833 (end of career contract, 2012)
Dwayne Bowe - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
Desean Jackson - 10.2 (2012)


Salary for top WRs has pretty much gone up 1 million a year since 2009. Colston is a ridiculous steal fore New Orleans at his price tag, and the Packers locked up Jordy Nelson just in time before he went big last season. Besides that, these numbers certainly show that Wallace is in the 10-11 million/year price range according to his production, and certainly no lower than 9M/year. The Steelers may not offer that...they may not be able to...but this shows that some team would. The only single team that has gotten a good price in the past 2 years was New Orleans with Colston. I don't expect that to happen with Wallace...I still don't know how it happened with Colston.


I think this list is likely Mike Wallace's starting point. But for the Steelers, they owe him $2.7M this year, so that's their starting point. Actually it should be less because Wallace never signed the tender.

$2.7M + ~$10M + ~$10M is worth about $23M over the next 3 years which could be close to the point where he loses he speed and some of his value.

So Wallace is pretty much against that wall of $23M if we franchise him to keep him for 3 years at which point, he may not be worth the big contract if he loses a step.

So ultimately, I'd say reasonable would be:

3 yrs - $7M/yr
4 yrs - $8M/yr
5 yrs - $9M/yr

Maybe a little discount from there for guaranteeing up front money.

phillyesq
07-23-2012, 11:40 AM
I think this list is likely Mike Wallace's starting point. But for the Steelers, they owe him $2.7M this year, so that's their starting point. Actually it should be less because Wallace never signed the tender.

$2.7M + ~$10M + ~$10M is worth about $23M over the next 3 years which could be close to the point where he loses he speed and some of his value.

So Wallace is pretty much against that wall of $23M if we franchise him to keep him for 3 years at which point, he may not be worth the big contract if he loses a step.

So ultimately, I'd say reasonable would be:

3 yrs - $7M/yr
4 yrs - $8M/yr
5 yrs - $9M/yr

Maybe a little discount from there for guaranteeing up front money.

Flippy, I agree that the fact that Wallace can be controlled this year for just $2.7 is a big factor to consider when evaluating his contract. Guys like DeSean and Vince Jackson aren't equal comps because, as potential UFAs (and having been Franchise tagged in D. Jackson's case) they had more leverage.

RuthlessBurgher
07-23-2012, 01:31 PM
Does the current cap number include Wallace's tender? If it does that would add a nice chunk of change for the Steelers to use to help sign Wallace. It would increase the amount they have to spend by the amount of the tender, which is, I believe, $2.75 million right now.

Yes, I believe that the $2,742,000 has already been applied to our cap when we issued the RFA tender (even though Mike has not signed the tender). We have enough to sign DeCastro, extend Wallace, and still have $1-2 million left over in the kitty for emergencies.