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hawaiiansteel
07-08-2012, 02:43 AM
Kiper: David DeCastro and Maurkice Pouncey Could Become the Best Guard/Center Combo in the NFL

by Neal Coolong on Jul 7, 2012

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/4590749/20120612_kdl_al8_039_extra_large.jpg

ESPN NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper did a summer audit of the AFC North, and had some high praise for the future of the Steelers offensive line.

The selection of RG David DeCastro in this spring's draft gives the team a high-level guard in terms of athleticism, power and intelligence. Playing him next to Pro Bowl C Maurkice Pouncey, in Kiper's eyes, could give the Steelers the best combination of the two positions in the NFL.

That's high praise, and obviously, something every team would want, given the choice.

Injuries have been the main concern around Pouncey. He looked strong at times last year, but at other times, looked like he was off a step or two. After breaking his ankle in the AFC Championship game at the end of the 2010 season, and missing the Super Bowl, it was clear the level of play along the Steelers interior offensive line was down.

DeCastro somehow fell to No. 24, where the Steelers probably beat the commissioner to the podium to submit their pick.

The versatility the two will bring - the ability to pull to either direction - gives the Steelers loads of options in the running game. Add in the move of Willie Colon from right tackle to left guard, you're looking at the interior offensive line going from one of the worst in the NFL to one of the best in one offseason.

Kiper also mentioned the Steelers' big question this season surrounding their younger players.

My question is whether some of the younger personnel [on defense] can make that next step and become dynamic. Lawrence Timmons is already exceptional, but it's time for guys such as Cameron Heyward, Jason Worilds and Steve McLendon to become names.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/7/7/3142928/pittsburgh-steelers-offensive-line-david-decastro-maurkice-pouncey-willie-colon#storyjump

Oviedo
07-08-2012, 08:19 AM
It's possible to have that kind of hope when you get rid of the substandard Guards wehave had the past several seasons. I think we will see that we are better in short yardage and we won't give up the inside pressure that we have the past couple of years that consistently forced Ben to scramble.

Jooser
07-08-2012, 09:04 AM
Great. Now we'll have to hand off the ball inside the 5 and score touchdowns..... GEEEEEEZZZ what's the team coming to? :D

Vis
07-08-2012, 09:11 AM
If we ever get DeCastro signed

Crash
07-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Great. Now we'll have to hand off the ball inside the 5 and score touchdowns..... GEEEEEEZZZ what's the team coming to? :D

And if they don't because 65,011 people know what's coming? Make sure to blame the new OC who's from Pittsburgh just like the old one.

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 11:19 AM
I like how he lists a guy who hasn't had more than a handful of snaps (colon) as a positive. I know most people dislike legursky starting at lg, but I'd rather he started than colon. At least I know legs has been playing football the past two years.

Crash
07-08-2012, 11:22 AM
If that's what you want to call it.

If Colon is hurt again, I hope Foster plays LG.

Oviedo
07-08-2012, 11:24 AM
I like how he lists a guy who hasn't had more than a handful of snaps (colon) as a positive. I know most people dislike legursky starting at lg, but I'd rather he started than colon. At least I know legs has been playing football the past two years.

Legursky, Kemo and Foster have been the problem. Keep them in a back up role where they belong.

Crash
07-08-2012, 11:27 AM
Foster plays well when he plays. The problem for him is he actually can back up 4 spots, so he's often skipped for lower talent who can't.

flippy
07-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Foster plays well when he plays. The problem for him is he actually can back up 4 spots, so he's often skipped for lower talent who can't.

I personally think we'd be in the best shape with Legursky at C and Pouncey at LG if Colon gets hurt again.

Crash
07-08-2012, 01:00 PM
I've been saying move Pouncey to OG for two years.

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 08:50 PM
Yea let's move one of the best centers in the nfl to a different position.

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 08:50 PM
Why don't we just put names in a hat and draw hem out and stick me in that way

Crash
07-08-2012, 08:52 PM
Yea let's move one of the best centers in the nfl to a different position.

He'd be a top two guard. His quick feet are wasted at center.

SidSmythe
07-08-2012, 08:56 PM
Yea let's move one of the best centers in the nfl to a different position.

Totally Agree. Legursky is great to have for depth, but to give up Pouncey and replace him with a backup Center to start is foolishness

Crash
07-08-2012, 08:58 PM
If Legursky has to play at any point he should be at center.

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 08:59 PM
He'd be a top two guard. His quick feet are wasted at center.
So we're dermonti Dawson's

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 09:00 PM
If Legursky has to play at any point he should be at center.
And colon should never step foot on the field. But gotta make your boy happy and let ONE of his besties be on the team

Crash
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
So we're dermonti Dawson's

Pouncey's feet aren't Dawson quick. Not even close. Dawson's the best physical talent at center, EVER. Pouncey never will be.

But Faneca quick at guard? Absolutely Pouncey compares to Alan.

Crash
07-08-2012, 09:05 PM
And colon should never step foot on the field. But gotta make your boy happy and let ONE of his besties be on the team

This thread is about Steelers offensive linemen. It's not about their Hall of Fame QB.

Please show respect and don't hijack the thread.

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Way wah wah

Slapstick
07-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Second team All Pro as a rookie, first team All Pro in 2011...

I'm all for keeping Pouncey where he is...

birtikidis
07-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Second team All Pro as a rookie, first team All Pro in 2011...

I'm all for keeping Pouncey where he is...
Only an idiot would want him moved.

D Rock
07-08-2012, 11:50 PM
I'd say center...the guy who makes the line calls and sets the tone for the rest of the linemen...is probably a bit more important of a spot to have your best player at than LG.

Wouldn't Pouncey and his quick feet and run-blocking ability just be wasted at LG in the new pass-first NFL anyways, especially if the Steelers adopt the 3 WR base set that Crash likes to preach so much?

BradshawsHairdresser
07-09-2012, 12:48 AM
And colon should never step foot on the field. But gotta make your boy happy and let ONE of his besties be on the team
I hope Colon is a resounding success at guard...he never impressed me that much at tackle.

Crash
07-09-2012, 12:53 AM
I'd say center...the guy who makes the line calls and sets the tone for the rest of the linemen

And yet, the much maligned run game, was pretty solid, in their last two playoff games wasn't it?

Pouncey didn't play, and thus, didn't make the calls did he?

Crash
07-09-2012, 12:56 AM
Um, not sure if you are aware of this, but you can RUN out of a 3 wide base offense as well.

Just like this guy did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ8PgEZNjjw

Notice which linemen sprung him, the LEFT guard. Where Pouncey IMO should be.

Jooser
07-09-2012, 06:21 AM
And if they don't because 65,011 people know what's coming? Make sure to blame the new OC who's from Pittsburgh just like the old one.

...and Dick Lebeau and Art II as well, right?

D Rock
07-09-2012, 07:25 AM
And yet, the much maligned run game, was pretty solid, in their last two playoff games wasn't it?

Pouncey didn't play, and thus, didn't make the calls did he? [/COLOR]


Denver was the 22nd best run defense last year, giving up 126.3 yds/game. The RBs ran for 122 yards, although at a very high 6.77 ypc.
Green Bay was the 18th best run defense in 2012, giving up 114.9 yds/game. The RBs ran for 95 yards at a pretty darn good 5 ypc.

Sure the running games produced, but they weren't world beating performances considering who they were playing against and the game situations. The Steelers were playing from behind in pass heavy games, and the defenses they were playing weren't all that concerned about stopping the run as much as the pass.

Slapstick
07-09-2012, 07:35 AM
They fell behind 14-0 in the 1st quarter in GB after throwing a pick 6...

Though what that has to do with Pouncey and DeCastro being the best C/G combo in the league, I don't know...

Oviedo
07-09-2012, 07:38 AM
They fell behind 14-0 in the 1st quarter in GB after throwing a pick 6...

Though what that has to do with Pouncey and DeCastro being the best C/G combo in the league, I don't know...

Another thread hijacked for a personal agenda!!!!!!

D Rock
07-09-2012, 07:57 AM
I don't think it's a hijack...I just think some posters just disagree that Pouncey/Decastro could be the best C/G combo in the league. Rather, they apparently think that Legursky/Pouncey would be the best C/G combo in the league. Which is a pretty silly thing to think.

aggiebones
07-09-2012, 10:14 AM
I wondered that too. But I think Colon is the best option right now.

Oviedo
07-09-2012, 10:59 AM
I wondered that too. But I think Colon is the best option right now.

Colon is a win-win option. If he stays healthy, he will play well and bring alot of experience to the LG position. If he gets hurt you can take a step back and put a back up like Legursky or Foster in. They have experience but aren't as talented as Colon when healthy.

IMO Colon will be solid and a big improvement over Kemo.

D Rock
07-09-2012, 11:43 AM
It's funny that everyone has called for Colon to be moved to G for years, and now that he has been many people are worried about how good of a guard he will be.

Crash
07-09-2012, 11:58 AM
Sure the running games produced, but they weren't world beating performances considering who they were playing against


HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT!

Who they are playing against doesn't matter to this board when discussing the "#1 ranked" defense. So once again, don't change the rules when it involves the offense.

If Pouncey was drafted by any other team moving him to guard would be favored. But because we had Iron Mike and Dirt, he has to remain at center.

Just don't complain after Colon gets hurt, and Lekursky is whiffing blocks at guard as usual.

BradshawsHairdresser
07-09-2012, 12:31 PM
It's funny that everyone has called for Colon to be moved to G for years, and now that he has been many people are worried about how good of a guard he will be.


I'm not one who called for Colon to be moved to guard, and I don't claim to speak for all those who did suggest that move, but maybe some of them thought that since he wasn't all that great at tackle, he might at least be an upgrade at guard. I'm not so sure he will be.

And look, I don't think he was HORRIBLE at tackle, just a whole lot more "mediocre" than a lot of folks think he was. To hear some people, Colon should have made the Pro Bowl at tackle...I just never could see that. In fact, two years ago when Flozell stepped in for him, I thought it brought a big upgrade.

Oviedo
07-09-2012, 12:49 PM
It's funny that everyone has called for Colon to be moved to G for years, and now that he has been many people are worried about how good of a guard he will be.

I called for it and I think he will be very good and an improvement over Kemo or Foster or Legursky. He just needs to stay healthy. This is the first year in the past 4 or 5 that we could have a real quality OL without career back-ups being forced to play.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 12:58 PM
They could turn out to be the best combo in the NFL. Pouncey is still a big question mark in regards to being the best. In order to be the best, you need to produce on big stages and that means the playoffs. Pouncey hasn't proven that he can stay healthy for that long. Being the best for the majority of the season does no good if he's hurt and on the sidelines for the biggest games (i.e. the playoffs)

D Rock
07-09-2012, 01:04 PM
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT!

Who they are playing against doesn't matter to this board when discussing the "#1 ranked" defense. So once again, don't change the rules when it involves the offense.

If Pouncey was drafted by any other team moving him to guard would be favored. But because we had Iron Mike and Dirt, he has to remain at center.

Just don't complain after Colon gets hurt, and Lekursky is whiffing blocks at guard as usual.







The fact that others defend the defense in a possibly inaccurate way has nothing to do with the running game in the past two playoff games. Just because you don't have an answer after getting shown the facts doesn't mean bringing up outside topics makes what you said suddenly correct.

Crash
07-09-2012, 01:09 PM
The facts support ME.

No Pouncey in two straight playoff games. The run game played well in both.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 01:10 PM
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT!

Who they are playing against doesn't matter to this board when discussing the "#1 ranked" defense. So once again, don't change the rules when it involves the offense.

If Pouncey was drafted by any other team moving him to guard would be favored. But because we had Iron Mike and Dirt, he has to remain at center.

Just don't complain after Colon gets hurt, and Lekursky is whiffing blocks at guard as usual.






Let's worry about that if Colon is injured again for an extended amount of time. If not, I'd prefer to keep our pro bowl, pulling center at his position.... center.

Crash
07-09-2012, 01:13 PM
He rarely pulls. I don't think he's quick enough to snap and pull like Dawson did.

Now at guard? That's different.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 01:32 PM
He rarely pulls. I don't think he's quick enough to snap and pull like Dawson did.

Now at guard? That's different.

Crash - Don't argue just for the sake up arguing. You're making an argument by comparing Pouncey's ability to a HOFer like Dawson. Pouncey can pull and get to the second level better than any center in the league. He's probably the most athletic C in the league. Are you really knocking the guy because he can't snap and pull like Dawson?

Why can't your boy Big Ben play like Joe Montana does in SBs? Why can't Ben read defenses pre-snap like Peyton Manning does? Ryan Clark is garbage because he can't play like Ronnie Lott. Honestly, it sounds stupid to make an argument like that.

You're comparing a really good player (Pouncey) to quite possibly the best C in the history of the game. I can make that argument with every position on the team. Heck, I can make that argument with EVERY position, on EVERY team in the league.

Oviedo
07-09-2012, 01:35 PM
Crash - Don't argue just for the sake up arguing. You're making an argument by comparing Pouncey's ability to a HOFer like Dawson. Pouncey can pull and get to the second level better than any center in the league. He's probably the most athletic C in the league. Are you really knocking the guy because he can't snap and pull like Dawson?

Why can't your boy Big Ben play like Joe Montana does in SBs? Why can't Ben read defenses pre-snap like Peyton Manning does? Ryan Clark is garbage because he can't play like Ronnie Lott. Honestly, it sounds stupid to make an argument like that.

You're comparing a really good player (Pouncey) to quite possibly the best C in the history of the game. I can make that argument with every position on the team. Heck, I can make that argument with EVERY position, on EVERY team in the league.

Bravo 09---Some of the best advice given recently on this board. The board does not benefit from anyone being an attention whore who has to contest every single post.

Slapstick
07-09-2012, 01:41 PM
Who they play doesn't mean anything more for the #1 ranked defense than the #21st ranked scoring offense...

Why? Because, usually, both the offense and defense play the same team...

Crash
07-09-2012, 01:46 PM
Why can't your boy Big Ben play like Joe Montana does in SBs?

Mr. Administrator, this thread is about Steelers offensive linemen, not their HOF QB.

Please show respect and don't hijack the thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gs5IARvyZg

You're welcome.

D Rock
07-09-2012, 01:49 PM
Mr. Administrator, this thread is about Steelers offensive linemen, not their HOF QB.

Please show respect and don't hijack the thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gs5IARvyZg

You're welcome.

You really are a tool.

Crash
07-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Ryan Clark is garbage because he can't play like Ronnie Lott.

No, Ryan Clark is garbage because as the last line of defense as the free safety? He rarely gets over in time on deep balls to break up a pass.

The Steelers defense hasn't had a free safety like that since Darren Perry.

RuthlessBurgher
07-09-2012, 01:50 PM
They could turn out to be the best combo in the NFL. Pouncey is still a big question mark in regards to being the best. In order to be the best, you need to produce on big stages and that means the playoffs. Pouncey hasn't proven that he can stay healthy for that long. Being the best for the majority of the season does no good if he's hurt and on the sidelines for the biggest games (i.e. the playoffs)

Playoff performance is important when arguing who is the best QB in the NFL, but for other positions like center...not so much.

Is Jared Allen less of a DE because he only has played in 3 career playoff games?

Is Maurice Jones-Drew less of a RB because he only has played in 2 career playoff games?

Is Calvin Johnson less of a WR because he only has played in 1 career playoff game?

Is Joe Thomas less of an OT because he hasn't played in any career playoff games?

Jooser
07-09-2012, 01:52 PM
Man, I'm counting the days, and I can't wait until someone finally pulls the (proverbial) trigger around here.....

Slapstick
07-09-2012, 01:53 PM
Playoff performance is important when arguing who is the best QB in the NFL, but for other positions like center...not so much.

Is Jared Allen less of a DE because he only has played in 3 career playoff games?

Is Maurice Jones-Drew less of a RB because he only has played in 2 career playoff games?

Is Calvin Johnson less of a WR because he only has played in 1 career playoff game?

Is Joe Thomas less of an OT because he hasn't played in any career playoff games?

I think it's more important what players do in the playoffs when given the opportunity...

For example:

Megatron in the playoffs? Wow...

Mike Wallace in the playoffs? Yawn...

Crash
07-09-2012, 02:01 PM
Man, I'm counting the days, and I can't wait until someone finally pulls the (proverbial) trigger around here.....


Why? I've received warnings for allegedly hijacking threads and taking them off topic.

I asked does this same warning apply to everyone when I get called out off topic in a thread?

All I'm doing, is going by the rules Admin Ruthless here set for me.

If I'm going to be warned for off topic discussions in threads, than admin's can't be calling me out about our HOF QB in threads that don't concern him.

Have a nice day.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 02:09 PM
Mr. Administrator, this thread is about Steelers offensive linemen, not their HOF QB.

Please show respect and don't hijack the thread.

You're welcome.

Acutally, I was using comparisons to backup an absord Pouncey to Dawson comparison. In fact, this thread had nothing to do with comparing Dawson and Pouncey in the first place. Let me think... who started that comparison thread. Oh thats right... that was you. Guess who is the person actually responsible for that initial "highjacking"? Ooopsssy. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Man, I'm getting good at this :)

Crash
07-09-2012, 02:12 PM
You aren't getting good at anything. This thread isn't about Ben.

Better watch it, you may get the Ruthless Warning of Death.

Btw, Ben's better than Peyton, always has been. Better leader, better player, better in the clutch.

Good day.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 02:21 PM
Ok, Skip Bayless.

The entire population: The sky is blue
Skip Bayless (i.e. Crash): No it isn't, it's yellow.

Start a thread about the Ben/Peyton and Dawson/Pouncey comparison. We'll even compare elements of each others games if you want.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 02:31 PM
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough. Start a new thread if you want to do player comparisons. Your post was deleted. You blatany ignored my request... last warning.

steelz09
07-09-2012, 02:38 PM
Deleted another post. Strike 3, Outta Here.

D Rock
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Deleted another post. Strike 3, Outta Here.


Did Crash really threaten you with being banned? He is one seriously confused dude.

Slapstick
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Deleted another post. Strike 3, Outta Here.

Is the witch really dead?

steelz09
07-09-2012, 03:02 PM
Is the witch really dead?


Did Crash really threaten you with being banned? He is one seriously confused dude.

It's unfortunate because I like some of the points he brings up but enough is enough already. I had to delete 3 Ben posts that he deliberately created when I told him to create a new thread. Obviously, it was on purpose to prove some point. I would even participated in the discussion of those threads. He refused and continued to create new posts in this existing thread. He had every single opportunity not to get banned and he chose to at this point. I had no other choice.

He'll probably try to mask his IP, create new usernames, etc to post again which is just going to waste mine, the mods and his time. Each time he does it, his ban will get exponentially longer to the point of being a lifetime ban. Again, the ball is in his court.

Slapstick
07-09-2012, 03:05 PM
Bummer.:cool:

hawaiiansteel
07-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Excuse me? YOU CALLED ME OUT by mentioning Ben in this thread when I was discussing Pouncey and Dawson, and I asked you NOT to take the discussion off topic because the thread had nothing to do with Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning. If anything I was PRAISING Pouncey and his skillset for offensive guard, and you still whined like a woman on the rag for 3 months.

It also had nothing to do with Ryan Clark and Ronnie Lott, another off topic comment that YOU made TO ME which can be clearly seen on page 5.

In the future, if you are going to lie about what happens in threads, you need to delete ALL of the evidence that makes you look like the liar you are.

Now kindly go f**k yourself.


what's up Geno?

welcome to the Planet...:grin:

steelz09
07-09-2012, 03:25 PM
Excuse me? YOU CALLED ME OUT by mentioning Ben in this thread when I was discussing Pouncey and Dawson, and I asked you NOT to take the discussion off topic because the thread had nothing to do with Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning. If anything I was PRAISING Pouncey and his skillset for offensive guard, and you still whined like a woman on the rag for 3 months.

It also had nothing to do with Ryan Clark and Ronnie Lott, another off topic comment that YOU made TO ME which can be clearly seen on page 5.

In the future, if you are going to lie about what happens in threads, you need to delete ALL of the evidence that makes you look like the liar you are.

Now kindly go f**k yourself.

Hi Skip. Welcome to the Planet!

D Rock
07-09-2012, 03:39 PM
hahaha that's awesome. I think he's upset.

Jooser
07-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Pull the proverbial trigger again, I'm loving it.

Oviedo
07-09-2012, 04:52 PM
hahaha that's awesome. I think he's upset.

You reap what you sow!!!!!

You are free to make choices in life but rarely are you given the ability to choose the consquences of those choices.

SteelerOfDeVille
07-09-2012, 06:00 PM
Seriously? I haven't been here in like FOREVER...
I show up only to find that
1. Crash has been posting and
2. He was banned.... TODAY! SUNNAVA!!!

steelz09
07-09-2012, 09:04 PM
Seriously? I haven't been here in like FOREVER...
I show up only to find that
1. Crash has been posting and
2. He was banned.... TODAY! SUNNAVA!!!

Yea really?!? Where in the hell have you been? lol

papillon
07-09-2012, 10:26 PM
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT!

Who they are playing against doesn't matter to this board when discussing the "#1 ranked" defense. So once again, don't change the rules when it involves the offense.

If Pouncey was drafted by any other team moving him to guard would be favored. But because we had Iron Mike and Dirt, he has to remain at center.

Just don't complain after Colon gets hurt, and Lekursky is whiffing blocks at guard as usual.






So, are you saying the Steelers front office and coaching staff drafted Maurkice Pouncey, because Mike Webster and Dermontti Dawson played for the Steelers and not because the center position was being manned by guys named Mahan and Hartwig? Does the phrase "Can he play center?" ring a bell?

Pappy

papillon
07-09-2012, 10:42 PM
Mr. Administrator, this thread is about Steelers offensive linemen, not their HOF QB.

Please show respect and don't hijack the thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gs5IARvyZg

You're welcome.

So, now you're comparing one drive to the following?

83/122 for 1142 yards and 128 passer rating and 9.36 YPA

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
07-09-2012, 11:26 PM
Don't you wish yo' girlfriend was hot like Vida! (She still wants my name tatted on her butt)


is Vida's butt going to be big enough to tattoo SteelerOfDeVille on it?

I guess it will have to be Steeler on the left check, Of in the middle and DeVille on the right cheek...;)

SteelerOfDeVille
07-09-2012, 11:36 PM
is Vida's butt going to be big enough to tattoo SteelerOfDeVille on it?

I guess it will have to be Steeler on the left check, Of in the middle and DeVille on the right cheek...;)

her butt's plenty big enough... pretty sure she could write, "welcome to Steeler Country, have a nice day" across that thang!

SteelerOfDeVille
07-09-2012, 11:39 PM
Yea really?!? Where in the hell have you been? lol
eh, i got tired with fighting with the same people over the same stuff, only to realize that no matter who was right, it had no impact on the game, cuz we're not the ones making the calls. At that point, i took the couple of hours a day and gave 'em to facebook for a year or two... eventually, that came to the same thing... now, i'm a wanderer - lol

hawaiiansteel
07-10-2012, 12:33 AM
Steelers Have Nearly Four Decades Fewer Combined Years Along Offensive Line Than Baltimore

by Neal Coolong on Jul 9, 2012

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/4606328/130154340_extra_large.jpg

ESPN writer John Clayton has a simple theory when it comes to an offensive line.

Experience only goes so far. A team's starting offensive line cannot exceed a combined age of 150 years. As ESPN's Jamison Hensely points out, this theory will be put to the test inside the AFC North this season, particularly between the "NFL's Hatfields and McCoys," the Ravens and the Steelers.

There is a stark contrast between the two, age-wise. Going off projected offensive lines, By the time the season starts, Baltimore looks to top out at 159 years of age (LT Bryant McKinnie, 33, LG Bobbie Williams, 36, C Matt Birk, 36, RG Marshal Yanda, 28, and RT Michael Oher, 26), while the Steelers, heavy investors in offensive linemen, look to carry nearly four less decades of age than Baltimore (159 to 120), with the assumption rookie LT Mike Adams wins the starting position (Adams, 22, LG Willie Colon, 29, C Maurkice Pouncey, 23, RG David DeCastro, 22, and RT Marcus Gilbert, 24).

Will that matter at all?

The example Clayton points to is the 2007 Chicago Bears offensive line. They, like Baltimore, combined for 159 years of age, and broke down throughout the season. Chicago finished 7-9 a year after winning the NFC championship with that same offensive line intact.

The Steelers didn't just draft a slew of offensive linemen, they drafted them when they were really young, too, something that seems to be a staple of Mike Tomlin's regime as head coach of the Steelers.

LB Lawrence Timmons was 20 when he was the Steelers' first round pick in 2007. Now an experienced veteran, Timmons will be 26 years old when training camp starts. Pouncey, a two-time Pro Bowl selection at center, is 22 years old. Gilbert, the second-oldest starter at 24, has a year of starting experience already.

While Clayton's theory makes sense simply in logic, what's really interesting is how the gap between two two in age right now could be vastly different by 2013. As Hensely points out, the Ravens have drafted OG Kelechi Osemele, OT Jah Reid and C Gino Gradkowski in the last two drafts (second round, third round and fourth round picks, respectively), and all three could be seen as starters at this time next year.

That would make 2012 a year of transition for both teams; the Steelers need to find a way to succeed among that line with two rookies (Adams and DeCastro) while Baltimore will need to prepare for a youth infusion next season while still maintaining a high level of protection now.

The Steelers were a 12-4 team with a sub-standard offensive line in 2011. After addressing the unit as a whole in the 2010 and 2011 drafts (with the selections of Pouncey and Gilbert in the first and second rounds), they went back to it with DeCastro and Adams in 2012. They're going to throw the young guys in the fire early in their careers, and in many respects, it doesn't seem as crazy as trotting out any one of the NFL-high 25 offensive line combinations they did in 2011.

Baltimore's offensive line was strong early last season, but showed some cracks in the playoffs. They've proved to be a dominant rushing team, and, when able to protect QB Joe Flacco, can be a dangerous offensive unit.

The question could end up being whether the lack of Father Time, or his obvious presence, will determine the race for the AFC North crown.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/7/9/3146307/steelers-have-nearly-four-decades-fewer-combined-years-along

D Rock
07-10-2012, 06:34 AM
eh, i got tired with fighting with the same people over the same stuff, only to realize that no matter who was right, it had no impact on the game, cuz we're not the ones making the calls. At that point, i took the couple of hours a day and gave 'em to facebook for a year or two... eventually, that came to the same thing... now, i'm a wanderer - lol


maybe you should take that time and devote it to fantasy football this year.

Oviedo
07-10-2012, 07:59 AM
eh, i got tired with fighting with the same people over the same stuff, only to realize that no matter who was right, it had no impact on the game, cuz we're not the ones making the calls. At that point, i took the couple of hours a day and gave 'em to facebook for a year or two... eventually, that came to the same thing... now, i'm a wanderer - lol

Well wander right back into this message board. You were always good.

RuthlessBurgher
07-10-2012, 01:23 PM
There is always a parking spot available at PlanetSteelers for SteelerOfDeVille's CoupeDeVille.

Shoe
07-10-2012, 01:44 PM
I find it funny how steeler fans put guys on a pedestal, and act like it's an insult to even compare anyone to that person. I liked Dawson; he was very good for a long time. But acting like its insulting to compare pounced to him is stupid. First of all, Dawson wasn't even the best center in his own division for that era (Bruce Matthews).

If pounced has another (let's just say) 4 more years like he's had so far, that would make 6 pro bowl/all-pro like seasons under his belt... That would be comparable to Dawson already.

Its like Dawson is a golden boy of steelerdom, joining other favorite sons like heath miller, Aaron smith, etc. guys who certainly were good, but are exalted beyond their real value

birtikidis
07-10-2012, 01:48 PM
Dawson was better than Mathews. Though Mathews was a stud.
but then, dawson also had a better line overall then Pouncey has.
I get really annoyed by writers who talk about combined experience. To me that is the most over hyped phrase ever. You're only as strong as your weakest link regardless of how much combined experience they have.

Oviedo
07-10-2012, 01:57 PM
Dawson was better than Mathews. Though Mathews was a stud.
but then, dawson also had a better line overall then Pouncey has.
I get really annoyed by writers who talk about combined experience. To me that is the most over hyped phrase ever. You're only as strong as your weakest link regardless of how much combined experience they have.

Now that we hopefully got the deadwood out of the RG and LG positions we will really see how good Pouncey has the potential to be.

Shoe
07-10-2012, 02:01 PM
Dawson was better than Mathews. Though Mathews was a stud.
but then, dawson also had a better line overall then Pouncey has.
I get really annoyed by writers who talk about combined experience. To me that is the most over hyped phrase ever. You're only as strong as your weakest link regardless of how much combined experience they have.

Oh please. Matthews went to probably a dozen pro bowls, at every position on the line. Thats about how long dawsons whole career was. Go ahead and tell me dermontti could've been all pro at left tackle like Matthews.

RuthlessBurgher
07-10-2012, 02:02 PM
Matthews was a starting guard, starting center, and starting tackle for the Oilers/Titans. He is likely the most durable and most versatile offensive lineman of all time, and deserves tremendous kudos for a remarkable career. However, in terms of centers, the big three are Mike Webster, Dwight Stephenson, and Dermontti Dawson. Dawson possess the greatest attributes of Webster and the greatest attributes of Stephenson, and put them together in one body. Dawson is the GOAT at the center position in my mind.

birtikidis
07-10-2012, 02:03 PM
Oh please. Matthews went to probably a dozen pro bowls, at every position on the line. Thats about how long dawsons whole career was. Go ahead and tell me dermontti could've been all pro at left tackle like Matthews.
I thought we were comparing apples to apples. If I wanted to compare guys that played every position on the line then I would have done that. As is, I'm comparing centers.

Shoe
07-10-2012, 02:12 PM
The only reason Matthews isn't in that conversation (of best center) is because he had the ability to play left tackle. Not to take anything away (from Stephenson, dawson, or web by) but lets be real: those guys couldn't have played left tackle at an all-pro level. Matthews could.

And tackle wasn't even where he made his mark. He owned fools at guard...

I didn't try to bring up Matthews to hijack.

RuthlessBurgher
07-10-2012, 02:23 PM
The only reason Matthews isn't in that conversation (of best center) is because he had the ability to play left tackle. Not to take anything away (from Stephenson, dawson, or web by) but lets be real: those guys couldn't have played left tackle at an all-pro level. Matthews could.

And tackle wasn't even where he made his mark. He owned fools at guard...

I didn't try to bring up Matthews to hijack.

Although he played tackle, guard, and center, I consider Matthews a guard. And if I were constructing my ultimate o-line, Matthews would probably make it as a guard, with Dawson at center. I'd give John Hannah the other guard slot, give one tackle slot to Anthony Munoz, and the for the other tackle, I'm going to go outside the box and pick an underrated guy who retired recently in Walter Jones.

birtikidis
07-10-2012, 02:27 PM
The only reason Matthews isn't in that conversation (of best center) is because he had the ability to play left tackle. Not to take anything away (from Stephenson, dawson, or web by) but lets be real: those guys couldn't have played left tackle at an all-pro level. Matthews could.

And tackle wasn't even where he made his mark. He owned fools at guard...

I didn't try to bring up Matthews to hijack.

i didn't see it as a hijack. Mathews was a great player, but I was just comparing career centers. He may have been a better center than Dawson had he not been moved to every position, I'm just looking at strictly center though.

D Rock
07-10-2012, 02:35 PM
The only reason Matthews isn't in that conversation (of best center) is because he had the ability to play left tackle. Not to take anything away (from Stephenson, dawson, or web by) but lets be real: those guys couldn't have played left tackle at an all-pro level. Matthews could.

And tackle wasn't even where he made his mark. He owned fools at guard...

I didn't try to bring up Matthews to hijack.

Matthews made the pro bowl as a guard and center but not as a tackle. Never the less, the fact that he was able to play all positions at a high level doesn't necessarily mean that he was better as a center than Webster or Dawson. It just means he had wider skill sets which they did not.

I may be able to do carpentry, plumbing, and electrical work all at a very high level, but that doesn't mean I'm better at any of them than world's best at each even if the plumber can't do electrical and the carpenter is a sub-par plumber.

Shoe
07-10-2012, 02:59 PM
Matthews made the pro bowl as a guard and center but not as a tackle. Never the less, the fact that he was able to play all positions at a high level doesn't necessarily mean that he was better as a center than Webster or Dawson. It just means he had wider skill sets which they did not.

I may be able to do carpentry, plumbing, and electrical work all at a very high level, but that doesn't mean I'm better at any of them than world's best at each even if the plumber can't do electrical and the carpenter is a sub-par plumber.

I see your analogy, but it does have flaw. O-line play is essentially the same: physically stop opposing defenders... Guard, center, tackle... Their jobs are essentially the same job. What puts you in a specific position is your skill set. There is a reason guys play tackle, guys play center,etc.

Now, conventional wisdom dictates that tackle is the most demanding spot on the line. When guys flop at center, they don't typically move them to tackle. But they do do that with guys who struggle at tackle (move them inside). Why? As I said, tackle is the more challenging spot, requiring the more talented guys typically.

I simply disagreed with saying that Matthews was no dermontti Dawson. That's certainly not the way I saw it, much as I appreciated dirt.

RuthlessBurgher
07-10-2012, 03:27 PM
I see your analogy, but it does have flaw. O-line play is essentially the same: physically stop opposing defenders... Guard, center, tackle... Their jobs are essentially the same job. What puts you in a specific position is your skill set. There is a reason guys play tackle, guys play center,etc.

Now, conventional wisdom dictates that tackle is the most demanding spot on the line. When guys flop at center, they don't typically move them to tackle. But they do do that with guys who struggle at tackle (move them inside). Why? As I said, tackle is the more challenging spot, requiring the more talented guys typically.

I simply disagreed with saying that Matthews was no dermontti Dawson. That's certainly not the way I saw it, much as I appreciated dirt.

Rod Woodson and Carnell Lake were able to play both cornerback as well as safety...does that make them better than Mel Blount?

Oviedo
07-10-2012, 03:34 PM
Rod Woodson and Carnell Lake were able to play both cornerback as well as safety...does that make them better than Mel Blount?

Until the NFL changes the rules because of how good Woodson and Lake were then they are never going to be as good as Blount. When the league has to change the freaking rules because you are so dominant that basically says you are probably one the best ever.

Vis
07-11-2012, 05:55 AM
Lake and Woodson did what they did with the new rules. Just sayin

RuthlessBurgher
07-11-2012, 10:13 AM
Lake and Woodson did what they did with the new rules. Just sayin

I realize that...I was just making a comparison between the Matthews/Dawson debate...that position flexibility somehow makes you a better player. I'm glad Carnell Lake was able to move to corner for us for one season, because that filled a major emergency need. I'm glad Alan Faneca was able to move to tackle for us for one season, because that filled a major emergency need. But just because we never needed to move Dawson to any position other than center (other than his rookie season where he played guard next to Webster) doesn't necessarily mean that Matthews is automatically a better center than Dawson, just because Matthews also played guard and tackle. Perhaps Matthews is a better overall offensive lineman than Dawson because of that versatility...but Dawson is the better center of the two.

hawaiiansteel
07-19-2012, 03:44 PM
DeCastro, Adams will have hands full

By Alan Robinson
Published: Thursday, July 19, 2012

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=JEjTw afQedptCA2PvbJHn8$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYuPOybN$X6hCfs ChUGf5$VaWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Doesn’t matter where a player is drafted, how much money he earns, how many All-American teams he made or how many college games he dominated. There’s nothing easy about being an NFL rookie offensive lineman.

“There’s no comfort level, none at all,” said Alan Faneca, the most accomplished offensive guard to play for the Steelers and a player who well remembers what a challenge his rookie season was in 1998. “You’ve been thrown a playbook that’s two or three times bigger than it was in college. You’re going out on the field thinking, not playing.”

You’re lost.

Even the best players struggle with terminology, the playbook’s complexity, the significantly upgraded competition, Faneca said. The same lineman who spent a couple of seasons roughing up college undergraduates becomes overwhelmed going up against defensive linemen with 10 years of experience and a commensurately deep bag of tricks.

Faneca, a nine-time Pro Bowl lineman who retired last year, knows exactly what the Steelers’ top two draft picks, David DeCastro and Mike Adams, will be going through when training camp starts Wednesday in Latrobe.

DeCastro, from Stanford, is being called the best guard to come into the league since … yes, Faneca. Adams, a mountainous pass blocker who often obliterated pass rushers at Ohio State, will get the chance to start at left tackle.

But there’s a reason the Steelers brought back Max Starks, signing the offensive tackle to a one-year contract to compete with Adams. Game speed in the NFL is difficult for rookies, and the blocking assignments can vary greatly from week to week.

“What you get this Wednesday doesn’t look at all what you got last Wednesday,” Faneca said.

The only rookie offensive linemen to start a Steelers opener during the Super Bowl era are Tom Ricketts (1989), Marvel Smith (2000) and Maurkice Pouncey (2010). Faneca and Kendall Simmons (2002) also started as rookies, but not in the opener.

“It’s hard,” Faneca said. “It’s just not the same as college football. My rookie season, I was playing next to Dermontti Dawson, one of the all-time greats, and I’m trying to live up to that playing. But it was a veteran crew, and they imparted knowledge that stuck. After a while, that made it easier.”

The Steelers’ offensive line, a perceived weakness for years, is undergoing an overhaul that began in 2010 with the drafting of Pouncey, a center. Right tackle Marcus Gilbert came aboard last season, and DeCastro and Adams arrived this spring.

But DeCastro and Adams were limited to a three-day minicamp last month, and their first extensive exposure to new offensive coordinator Todd Haley’s system won’t begin until next week. It seems likely DeCastro will start the Sept. 9 opener in Denver, but he still must beat out Ramon Foster and Trai Essex.

“It can be a struggle for a rookie,” said Jamie Dukes, an NFL Network analyst and a 10-season lineman in the league. “You don’t know the personnel. You don’t know (Bills defensive lineman) Mario Williams’ moves. You’re blocking several layers deep, and blitz pickup can be an issue.”

The advantage that DeCastro and Adams own over linemen who came into the league only a few seasons ago is that the proliferation of passing-heavy, spread-type offenses is speeding up the learning curve.

“How many rookie linemen start? Fifteen years ago, the answer was none,” said former Dallas Cowboys player personnel vice president Gil Brandt. “But the players we get today from colleges are so much better equipped to play in the NFL. Adams and DeCastro, they pass-blocked more in one year than the player we used to get did during an entire college career.”

In 2007, all four offensive linemen drafted in the first round — Joe Thomas, Levi Brown, Joe Staley and Ben Grubbs — became starters almost immediately.

Dukes said this familiarity with the passing game means “from an academic standpoint, it’s not as big a challenge that wide receiver or quarterback is. You just have to get up to speed.”

For all the challenges of developing brand-new linemen, the Steelers appear to be embracing them more eagerly than the rival Baltimore Ravens. And that might be the biggest difference between franchises with so many similarities and identical 12-4 records last season.

Even if Starks starts, the average age of the Steelers’ offensive line starters — with DeCastro in the lineup — would be 25½. All five projected Ravens starters are older than that, with an average age of nearly 32. And keeping linemen healthy as they age can be a challenge.

“But you’ve got to be up to the task,” Faneca said. “It’s how hard you work, your willingness to go out there and watch the older guys who are trying to help you along and lead you in the right direction.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2221076-85/decastro-adams-linemen-offensive-rookie-steelers-faneca-college-lineman-season

NorthCoast
07-21-2012, 12:10 PM
We are all panting at how improved the OL will be this season. But I would not be surprised to see the Steelers struggle offensively the first quarter of the season. New offense, new players and the defenses are typically ahead of the Os at the start anyway. All of this tells me the Steelers may struggle to get points on the board in early games. I hope fans don't start screaming for someone's head until they see how things shape up in the second half of the season before making an opinion. Patience, my friends, is a virtue, and I believe it will be rewarded.

RuthlessBurgher
07-21-2012, 02:32 PM
I hope fans don't start screaming for someone's head until they see how things shape up in the second half of the season before making an opinion. Patience, my friends, is a virtue, and I believe it will be rewarded.

I suggest that you don't go into the chatroom then...I predict full-blown Chicken-Little-mode for Scarletfire within the first 3 plays of the season.

Oviedo
07-21-2012, 04:29 PM
I suggest that you don't go into the chatroom then...I predict full-blown Chicken-Little-mode for Scarletfire within the first 3 plays of the season.

Haley will be an idiot as OC in less than 4 games
Ben will have a bad attitude about the new offense in less that 3 games
The rookie OLmen will be "busts" in less than 6 games
Tomlin will be a moron for hiring Haley in less than 2 games

That should pretty well sum it up

Shawn
07-21-2012, 04:49 PM
Haley will be an idiot as OC in less than 4 games
Ben will have a bad attitude about the new offense in less that 3 games
The rookie OLmen will be "busts" in less than 6 games
Tomlin will be a moron for hiring Haley in less than 2 games

That should pretty well sum it up

I believe those things to be true now. There goes your theory. :roll:

:p

hawaiiansteel
07-22-2012, 08:24 PM
Steelers positioned to benefit from investment in offensive line

by John Dudley
July 22, 2012


They're big. They're boring. They'll be totally ignored when pro football's make-believe owners gather next month to assemble their fantasy squads.

There might be no more underrated units in sports than NFL offensive lines, even now, with websites like footballoutsiders.com creating statistics like Power Success to attempt to measure how effectively teams run in short-yardage situations. (A category, by the way, led in 2011 by the Vikings and Seahawks, who each came in at 73 percent.)

All of this is a good icebreaker for any discussion of this season's Steelers, because an argument can be made that their success or failure rides more on their offensive linemen than on any other group of players, including their celebrated wide receivers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

Although they re-signed veteran stopgap Max Starks this past week to provide competition at tackle, the Steelers no longer treat their offensive line like a patchwork quilt stitched together with spare parts and worn-out former starters.

They've shopped heavily up front in the past three drafts, taking center Maurkice Pouncey as a first-rounder in 2010, tackle Marcus Gilbert in the second round in 2011 and presumed starters David DeCastro and Mike Adams with their first two picks in April.

If you're keeping track, that's two first-round picks spent on offensive linemen in three seasons after not taking one that early since Kendall Simmons in 2002.

And there are good reasons for that.

One, the Steelers have scrambled for the better part of the past decade -- even in some years when they've made a Super Bowl appearances -- with injuries and a lack of quality depth up front. That's why they signed Flozell Adams off the street two years ago to plug a hole at tackle.

They have a talented line coach in Sean Kugler who spent so much of his first two seasons in emergency mode it was difficult for him to figure out exactly what he had, which, as it turns out, wasn't nearly enough.

So for Kugler, the additions of DeCastro, who is expected to start at guard, and Adams, who will compete for the left tackle job, are like hitting the lottery. Twice.

Another reason, plain and simple, is that a gradual transition away from the power running game means the Steelers' ability to score points depends more heavily than ever on quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who has been sacked at least 40 times in five of the past six seasons.

With running back Rashard Mendenhall out indefinitely as he recovers from a knee injury and the team deeply invested in receivers Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders, the line's ability to learn pass-blocking protections -- which can be far more complex than run schemes -- is vital.

In DeCastro, the Steelers have added a heady, former Stanford guard to insert alongside Pouncey, their heady former Florida center. Together they give the Steelers the most promising interior line combo since Jeff Hartings and Alan Faneca, and the shift of veteran tackle to Willie Colon to left guard further strengthens the unit up the middle.

Gilbert and Adams are expected to be the tackles, giving the Steelers a big, talented and, for a change, young group of starting linemen whose average age could be as young as 251/2 years.

With that youth comes some uncertainty.

DeCastro and Adams will arrive at camp behind, which is a concern. Each missed OTAs because of an NFL rule that prohibits players from participating until their college coursework is complete.

But Kugler said both will run with the starters when camp opens and promised they would have plenty of work waiting for them, adding that, unlike what they might have done in college, "they can't BS their way through it."

If the investment the Steelers have made over the past three seasons pays off, that stink that's hovered over the offensive line should start to drift away very soon.

http://goerie.com/article/20120722/S...offensive-line (http://goerie.com/article/20120722/SPORTS0509/307229906/John-Dudley%3A-Steelers-positioned-to-benefit-from-investment-in-offensive-line)

jj28west
07-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Haley will be an idiot as OC in less than 4 games
Ben will have a bad attitude about the new offense in less that 3 games
The rookie OLmen will be "busts" in less than 6 games
Tomlin will be a moron for hiring Haley in less than 2 games

That should pretty well sum it up

Scarletfire was going off how Silverback was overrated and the WR tandum of Ward, Holmes & Wallace sucked back in 2009 during chat. And this was a Steelers Fan.

Crap, I would rather talk to Jom, Tiproast, & Hardliner.

Its too bad because there usually was good conversation that goes on.

Is there a way for the participant in chat to blackout a member?

hawaiiansteel
07-23-2012, 02:05 PM
David DeCastro, Pittsburgh Steelers, signs rookie contract :tt2

NFL.com
Published: July 23, 2012

David DeCastro signed his rookie contract with the Pittsburgh Steelers on Monday, a team source told NFL.com and NFL Network's Albert Breer.

Terms of the contract were not disclosed.

The Stanford guard, selected No. 24 overall in the 2012 NFL Draft, missed the Steelers' OTAs because of the university's quarter system.

DeCastro started all 39 games at right guard during his three years at Stanford. He was also a unanimous All-American selection in 2011, according to the Stanford athletics website.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ac03db/article/devid-decastro-pittsburgh-steelers-agree-to-contract?campaign=Twitter_news