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View Full Version : Mike Webster --> Dermontti Dawson --? Maurkice Pouncey



hawns
07-05-2012, 10:01 PM
I wrote an article profiling Dermontti Dawson for his long-overdue hall of fame induction, and in it I spoke about how he was a bridge from Mike Webster, the old school center, to a new breed of lineman. Strong, agile, and quick. The Steelers are undoubtedly the team with the best track record at center.

Dermontti Dawson: 2012 Hall of Fame (http://www.footballnation.com/content/hall-fame-class-2012-profiling-dermontti-dawson/15162/)

I also have a training camp article up at Football Nation that talks about Mike Wallace, and how his efforts to remedy his short-term contract problems might end up being detrimental to him in the long-run.

D Rock
07-05-2012, 10:10 PM
From what I've been reading (The Ones Who Hit The Hardest - it's awesome), weren't Webster and the other Steelers Olinemen back in the day typically small and fast? At least until the introduction of steroids to the game.

hawns
07-05-2012, 10:19 PM
I think the thing is they were small compared to today's standards, but when people are talking about Buck Buchanan being a giant at 280 pounds or so, the perception of size is a bit skewed. As far as speed goes, that's an interesting point.

D Rock
07-05-2012, 10:27 PM
I think the thing is they were small compared to today's standards, but when people are talking about Buck Buchanan being a giant at 280 pounds or so, the perception of size is a bit skewed. As far as speed goes, that's an interesting point.


What you talk about with the size may be true, and I haven't gone back to see exactly what the book said, but I remember my though when I first read it was that the way the early 70s OLine was described reminded me of the descriptions of the linemen for the Broncos in the late 90s and early to mid 2000's.

hawns
07-05-2012, 10:38 PM
That's a great point. You did see a lot of those linemen moving laterally in a similar fashion to Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. Maybe it wasn't his blocking scheme that was the revolutionary part of it, but the one-cut back who didn't try to dodge the defense so much as hit the hole as quickly as possible.

hawns
07-05-2012, 10:41 PM
Regardless of that, however, back then offensive linemen didn't have to deal with as much movements, zone blitzes (thank you, LeBeau) and other complications that linemen have had to combat in mroe recent years.

hawns
07-05-2012, 10:50 PM
One last thing, I did point out in the article that Mike Webster was NFL Network's #68 player of all time. He's there for a reason.

D Rock
07-05-2012, 10:53 PM
That's a great point. You did see a lot of those linemen moving laterally in a similar fashion to Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. Maybe it wasn't his blocking scheme that was the revolutionary part of it, but the one-cut back who didn't try to dodge the defense so much as hit the hole as quickly as possible.

Perhaps that is why Franco was so successful. I wasn't born until after most of these guys had retired so reading and watching the few videos I can find is all I have to use,but... It sounds like Franco was a very instinctual runner with great vision, much like the one-cut backs you refer to.


And welcome to the board! Keep posting like you have so far and we will really enjoy having you here, and hopefully you will enjoy it as well.

D Rock
07-05-2012, 10:54 PM
I see you've already learned the art of 'post count padding'

:tt2

Oviedo
07-06-2012, 08:20 AM
Pouncey has to prove to me that he can avoid recurring ankle injuries before he gets mentioned in the same sentence with Webster and Dawson. Even though I just did that;)

phillyesq
07-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Pouncey has to prove to me that he can avoid recurring ankle injuries before he gets mentioned in the same sentence with Webster and Dawson. Even though I just did that;)

True. Hopefully, with a lockout free offseason, he will be 100% ready to go.

I'm not sure that Pouncey will ever have the power that Dawson had - Dawson could move, and he could level defenders when he got them. That isn't meant as a knock on Pouncey at all, but I don't remember seeing a better center than Dawson.

Shawn
07-06-2012, 10:02 AM
Pouncey is just a different type of center. He is an agile technician who uses what he has to it's fullest. If he stays healthy he will mentioned amongst the greatest centers in Steeler history.

Slapstick
07-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Pouncey is just a different type of center. He is an agile technician who uses what he has to it's fullest. If he stays healthy he will mentioned amongst the greatest centers in Steeler history.

The cool thing is this:

If Pouncey is mentioned amongst the greatest centers in Steelers history, that is synonymous with the greatest centers in football history...

phillyesq
07-06-2012, 10:21 AM
Pouncey is just a different type of center. He is an agile technician who uses what he has to it's fullest. If he stays healthy he will mentioned amongst the greatest centers in Steeler history.

Shawn - I wasn't knocking him. I think he can be a great center if he stays healthy (and reverses the decline in his play last year, which may well have been injury related).

D Rock
07-06-2012, 11:51 AM
IIRC, one of the recent articles posted here on the board quoted Pouncey as saying that his ankle has never been stronger.

Crash
07-06-2012, 11:55 AM
Can't blame Pouncey for the crap surface he plays on half the year. Blame ownership for making their players put up with it.

ikestops85
07-06-2012, 12:13 PM
Can't blame Pouncey for the crap surface he plays on half the year. Blame ownership for making their players put up with it.

Another misconception in your mind. The players have been asked time and time again and they always vote to play on the grass ... not the field turf.

Slapstick
07-06-2012, 12:42 PM
Another misconception in your mind. The players have been asked time and time again and they always vote to play on the grass ... not the field turf.

Where was Willie Parker playing when he broke his leg?

Where did Rashard tear his ACL?

Where did Casey tear his ACL?

What about Max?

Crash
07-06-2012, 01:46 PM
Another misconception in your mind. The players have been asked time and time again and they always vote to play on the grass ... not the field turf.

That's what they SAY.

Then the player votes come out, and the Steelers players vote their OWN SURFACE at the worst field in the league.

Crash
07-06-2012, 01:48 PM
Where was Willie Parker playing when he broke his leg?

Where did Rashard tear his ACL?

Where did Casey tear his ACL?

What about Max?

Exactly.

All except ONE of those, was on GRASS.

Grass isn't the cure all people think it is.

You have all this speed on offense, and come December and January their own field slows it down.

Slapstick
07-06-2012, 02:30 PM
Exactly.

All except ONE of those, was on GRASS.

Grass isn't the cure all people think it is.

You have all this speed on offense, and come December and January their own field slows it down.

You missed the point:

How many were on the "muck" of Heinz Field?

Crash
07-06-2012, 02:32 PM
You missed the point:

How many were on the "muck" of Heinz Field?

Plenty.

Ben twice, Polamalu twice, Pouncey twice.

That's just three players off the top.

Btw, Hampton according to fans who were there, may have been hurt during the traditional pre game wrestling match with Ike Taylor and others in Denver, which would have NOTHING to do with the game, and could also explain Taylor's piss poor effort.

Slapstick
07-06-2012, 02:44 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/04/30/football-knee-injuries-likelier-on-artificial-turf-than-grass/

Crash
07-06-2012, 02:47 PM
Wonderful.

I'm sure Pouncey, Ben, and Polamalu agree.

RuthlessBurgher
07-06-2012, 03:11 PM
Our field definitely impacts the effectiveness of the kicking game in a negative fashion, but I don't see a huge correlation to greater injuries, home vs. away, for us. I could see more pulled muscles (such as hamstring injuries) on sloppy grass surfaces if the grass suddenly gives out beneath your feet, but the more serious injuries involving ligament tears (such as ACL injuries) would be more likely to occur when your cleats are planted in artificial turf which does not give, and your body gets twisted in an awkward direction. I would think concussions that occur when helmets hit the turf would be more likely on artificial surfaces as opposed to grass as well.

phillyesq
07-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Can't blame Pouncey for the crap surface he plays on half the year. Blame ownership for making their players put up with it.

You've watched every Steelers game since who knows when. Which of the 3 centers did you prefer -- I'd prefer to read that than a rehashing of the field arguments.

Crash
07-07-2012, 12:51 AM
Dawson's the best in Steelers history and it's not even worth debating.

hawaiiansteel
07-07-2012, 01:35 AM
Dawson's the best in Steelers history and it's not even worth debating.


I agree, with Mike Webster second.

Maurkice Pouncey may one day deserve to be in this conversation, but not yet...

NorthCoast
07-07-2012, 08:31 AM
Can't blame Pouncey for the crap surface he plays on half the year. Blame ownership for making their players put up with it.

if there were any sound statistics that point to grass leading to more injuries don't think for one minute the NFL wouldn't mandate a switch to turf, especially in this day and age of 'player safety'.

phillyesq
07-07-2012, 09:21 AM
Dawson's the best in Steelers history and it's not even worth debating.

He is certainly the best I've seen, but I didn't see Webster (except maybe a few years at the end).