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hawaiiansteel
06-08-2012, 01:56 AM
Steelers’ Butler content in wings

By Mark Kaboly - Tribune-Review
Published: Thursday, June 7, 2012

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=jn5q7 wEB6Gk9$bt0PHaxh8$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtQqzfML$TH$WC jWG0Ji929WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Linebackers coach Keith Butler has long been rumored to be the replacement-in-waiting when defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau retires.

Twice over the past three years, Butler has turned down coordinator jobs in Miami and Indianapolis.

Butler said he wasn’t given — or asked for — assurance that he will replace LeBeau, 74, when he calls it quits.

“Dick LeBeau, as far as I am concerned, can coach as long as he wants,” Butler said. “I am not going to be the guy who pushes him out. The Rooneys took care of me monetarily and made it worth my while to stay here.”

Though Butler worked with new Colts coach Chuck Pagano, he felt going to Indianapolis was a risk.

“I know Andrew Luck is a good player coming in, but you cannot keep a job as a coach in this league unless you have a good quarterback and a good defense,” Butler said.

• Linebacker Jason Worilds has yet to take part in organized team activities because of offseason wrist surgery. Worilds was diagnosed with scapholunate diastasis, a ligament tear between bones in the wrist. “It is a nuisance-type injury you have to live with the rest of the year and try to get it taken care of in the offseason, and that’s what he did,” Butler said. Worilds is expected to be ready for training camp in late July.

• James Harrison has sat out the past two weeks of OTAs because of fluid build-up in his knee. He is expected to participate during next week’s minicamp.

• Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert said he is optimistic the team will sign Mike Wallace to a long-term contract. Appearing on the “Movin’ the Chains” show on SiriusXM Radio, Colbert said the organization is in negotiations with Wallace and his agent, Bus Cook. “Mike is someone who has stated he wants to be here, and we certainly want him,” Colbert said. Wallace has until June 15 to sign his $2.74 million tender before the Steelers could reduce their offer to $577,000.

• Ben Roethlisberger wore tackle Max Starks’ No. 78 during the final OTA session Thursday at Heinz Field. Starks is a free agent who is coming off ACL surgery and has yet to sign with any team. “He’s my draft-class guy, blocker mate, just in honor of him,” Roethlisberger said.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1933197-85/butler-coach-steelers-colbert-lebeau-sign-team-wallace-worilds-agent

Crash
06-08-2012, 02:01 AM
Great LeBeau Lite.

steelnavy
06-08-2012, 07:39 AM
Great LeBeau Lite.

Yep, the thought of continuous top rated defenses every year gives me nightmares too. Seriously, you have become THE website troll. :roll:

Crash
06-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Yep, the thought of continuous top rated defenses every year gives me nightmares too

The thought of the same 4th quarter scheme with Butler as DC is scary.

If Butler runs the same defense, with no new innovations or schemes? Big deal.

ikestops85
06-08-2012, 11:58 AM
The thought of the same 4th quarter scheme with Butler as DC is scary.

If Butler runs the same defense, with no new innovations or schemes? Big deal.

Talk about scary ... now you know how the rest of us felt with BA as offensive coordinator. ;)

Crash
06-08-2012, 12:05 PM
Talk about scary ... now you know how the rest of us felt with BA as offensive coordinator. ;)

BA did what he was told after 2009:

Emphasis on the run? Done.

Get young players ready to play faster? Done.

What did LeBeau do? Our young players still sit, and they aren't prepared to play quicker.

Heyward COMPETING with Hood? He should be competing with KEISEL.

Larry Foote starting? He should be rotating with Sylvester, and TIMMONS should be the one calling defenses.

LeBeau is coasting. He's jumped the shark.

Jooser
06-08-2012, 12:50 PM
Crash, there have been several articles published here talking about BA's emphasis on the "run". Several players have gone on record as saying his running game consisted of generic run plays that were not conceived or schemed to beat any particular team. In other words, it was a joke. The lineman weren't practicing the plays with any conviction because it was not a point of emphasis in BA's offense. Face it Crash, that old offense sucked nads. PERIOD.

flippy
06-08-2012, 12:55 PM
Looks like Starks isn't coming back since Ben wants him. The kiss of death.

D Rock
06-08-2012, 12:56 PM
Did you know that Ben Roethlisberger hasn't been a very good playoff quarterback since 2008? He has 5 TDs and 5 INTs in 4 games since then with an average QB rating in the 70s.

He's jumped the shark.

steelz09
06-08-2012, 01:04 PM
BA did what he was told after 2009:

Emphasis on the run? Done.

Get young players ready to play faster? Done.

What did LeBeau do? Our young players still sit, and they aren't prepared to play quicker.

Heyward COMPETING with Hood? He should be competing with KEISEL.

Larry Foote starting? He should be rotating with Sylvester, and TIMMONS should be the one calling defenses.

LeBeau is coasting. He's jumped the shark.

Timmons doesn't strike me as being the sharpest tool in the shed. Nor does he seem to have leadership qualities ... nor the qualities to be "the guy" calling the plays. "That guy" would have been Hightower if DeCastro wasn't on the board.

Crash
06-08-2012, 01:07 PM
Did you know that Ben Roethlisberger hasn't been a very good playoff quarterback since 2008? He has 5 TDs and 5 INTs in 4 games since then with an average QB rating in the 70s.

He's jumped the shark.

Then they can trade him and you guys get what you want. 45 runs a game and no rings.

Enjoy!

Crash
06-08-2012, 01:08 PM
Timmons doesn't strike me as being the sharpest tool in the shed. Nor does he seem to have leadership qualities ... nor the qualities to be "the guy" calling the plays. "That guy" would have been Hightower if DeCastro wasn't on the board.

And where would Hightower be if we drafted him? Sitting as a backup for as long as LeBeau is here "learning" the defense.

grotonsteel
06-08-2012, 01:11 PM
Looks like Starks isn't coming back since Ben wants him. The kiss of death.

I think Ben wore 78 last season too. Ben is close to Willie Colon and max Starks.

I think steelers will sign Max Starks if healthy. Instant upgrade over J scott. FO likes Max Starks. I am not sure if Tomlin likes him though.

Offense started to perform when Max Starks became the LT last season. I don't think thats a coincidence.

steelz09
06-08-2012, 01:14 PM
And where would Hightower be if we drafted him? Sitting as a backup for as long as LeBeau is here "learning" the defense.

Well, I don't know... My expectations would have been that Hightower would be immediately the starter and potentially calling the plays. If not, I would see Woodley or Clark being the second best option at playcalling... not Timmons.

phillyesq
06-08-2012, 01:33 PM
I think Ben wore 78 last season too. Ben is close to Willie Colon and max Starks.

I think steelers will sign Max Starks if healthy. Instant upgrade over J scott. FO likes Max Starks. I am not sure if Tomlin likes him though.

Offense started to perform when Max Starks became the LT last season. I don't think thats a coincidence.

You are right. Can't remember if it was in training camp or when it was, but Ben did wear his jersey at some point.

Completely agree with resigning Starks. He is a much better option that J. Scott and likely cheaper, too.

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2012, 09:07 PM
Butler: Replacing Farrior isn't easy

June 8, 2012
By Dan Gigler / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


At a brief media session yesterday after the final organized team activity of 2012, Steelers linebackers coach Keith Butler seemed to talk as much about players who didn't participate as the ones who did.

That stands to reason. With James Farrior gone, James Harrison a scratch for the OTAs, LaMarr Woodley not practicing and Jason Worilds recuperating from wrist surgery, a lot of veteran talent was missing.

But Butler seemed pleased with what he has seen thus far in some junior members of the linebacker corps, with one caveat: "Here's the deal -- they all look good in shorts. Its almost like a beauty contest. But, when the hittin' starts, we'll find out about 'em."

He has found out, however, that third-round pick Sean Spence -- who made an eye-catching interception in drills yesterday -- is a quick study and likely will see game action this season.

"He's coming along well. A very sharp young man. He's picking up our system as good as anybody has at this point," Butler said.

"He's showed me some things ... I wouldn't say he's not going to play. The fact of the matter is, since I've been here, we've never had a rookie start for us -- not Lawrence Timmons, not LaMarr Woodley, not anybody. So we'll see with him. He may not start, but he's probably going to get some playing time."

Butler also singled out second-year man Chris Carter as well as undrafted free agents Adrian Robinson and Brandon Hicks for their good showing in OTAs, but he was most effusive in his praise for the departed James Farrior and said replacing him will be a challenge.

"I won't ever feel good about not having James Farrior. A guy with that leadership type of quality, and knowing the defense the way he knows it, it was easy for him to set the defense. Stuff that comes up -- and it always does -- on the field that you haven't covered as a coach, he can take care of."

Butler added that the experience of 11-year veteran Larry Foote will get them through.

"[Foote] knows what's going to come out of my mouth before I say it ... I think Larry's going to try to fill that void for us in terms of getting the defense set and running the defense. [But] the leadership quality that Potsie brought, I don't know if we can replace that."

Nonetheless, Butler is optimistic: "I hope we'll be as good a defense as we were last year. I do feel good about that."

Harrison has not participated in these OTAs, but Butler said he will join the team next week for minicamp, as will Woodley, who missed practice Thursday.

Defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau said that Harrison's recovery from back surgery last year "got better and better as the year went on. He told me earlier in coaching sessions, it's the best he's felt for three years, which was good news."

Butler said that Worilds had surgery to repair a torn ligament in his wrist that he injured last season, but expects to be ready for training camp next month.

"He's going to have full range of mobility, hopefully, when its done. It's just taking some time to heal. We want to be sure about it so when we get to training camp he's ready to go," said Butler.

The absence of Harrison, Woodley and Worilds from the OTAs has not bothered LeBeau.

"The plus of that is some of these younger guys are getting awful lot of snaps," LeBeau said. "I think they'll all be up and ready to go in training camp."

Butler had a chance to leave in the offseason to become the defensive coordinator in Indianapolis, but opted to stay and work under LeBeau. "I love Dick LeBeau. I've learned a tremendous amount from him and I've got too much respect for him to be a guy that tries to push him out the door."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...#ixzz1xFCPDZXo (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/butler-replacing-farrior-isnt-easy-639474/#ixzz1xFCPDZXo)

hawaiiansteel
06-09-2012, 12:44 AM
Keith Butler has some nice things to say about a few of the young LBers like Sean Spence and UDFA Adrian Robinson from Temple.

click on link below to view video:

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Keith-Butler---67/7da09532-3e26-4548-85a0-320ad2c5de62

hawaiiansteel
06-11-2012, 12:45 AM
Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib via twitter:

Keith Butler says he didn't go to Indy, in part, because they didn't have an established QB. "that's the way coaches lose jobs"

https://twitter.com/#!/search/from:ScottBrown_Trib OR from:MarkKaboly_Trib OR from:RalphPaulk_Trib?q=from%3AScottBrown_Trib+OR+f rom%3AMarkKaboly_Trib+OR+from%3ARalphPaulk_Trib

Shawn
06-11-2012, 01:49 AM
Then they can trade him and you guys get what you want. 45 runs a game and no rings.

Enjoy!

45 runs a game would be nice. Dare to dream.

Slapstick
06-11-2012, 07:48 AM
45 runs a game would be nice. Dare to dream.

That would be good...

Especially if most of the 45 runs took place in the second half, to salt away the game...

flippy
06-11-2012, 12:26 PM
That would be good...

Especially if most of the 45 runs took place in the second half, to salt away the game...

If we run 45 times in a game, we're dominating the LOS, TOP, keeping the defense from getting gassed in the 4th quarter, and probably dominating that game.

Crash
06-11-2012, 12:50 PM
That would be good...

Especially if most of the 45 runs took place in the second half, to salt away the game...

And then guys like you bitch they don't score.

They do this strategy now with leads, and you guys still complain.

Can't have it both ways boys.

Crash
06-11-2012, 02:39 PM
If we run 45 times in a game, we're dominating the LOS, TOP, keeping the defense from getting gassed in the 4th quarter, and probably dominating that game.

We were 2nd in the NFL in TOP in 2011.

Still couldn't stop Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow.

papillon
06-11-2012, 02:54 PM
We were 2nd in the NFL in TOP in 2011.

Still couldn't stop Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow.

Okay, so, the defense gives up 23 points in regulation, shouldn't an offense be able to score 24 points the way offense is played today? The offense scores 6 points in the first and they dominated, but, because they couldn't score TDs the Broncos are winning the game. The defense's fault? The defense gets them the ball enough in the second half to tie the game and gets them the ball with a minute and a half left in regulation and two timeouts, the offense proceeds to get Ben sacked 3 times in that series. The defense's fault?

As bad as the defense executed they still got the ball to the offense enough, but the offense wasn't good enough against the Denver defense to score points.

You can try all you want to blame anyone except Ben and the offense, but the offense wasn't much better (if at all) than the defense in that game or it would have basically been over at halftime. The defense dominated early and gave up two big plays for TDs. The Steeler offense moved the ball and kicked field goals.

It's a team game, can't win throwing the ball 70% of the time or more, maybe you can win throwing it 60% of the time, but I'd prefer something like 60% passes and 40% runs in the first half to get the lead and then vice versa in the second half to shorten the game, milk the clock and close out the game. Ben's rookie year, the Steelers built leads and then leaned on the running game and put the ball in Ben's hands in good situations for him to make plays. I'd like to see the Steelers put Ben in that position now with 8 years of experience under his belt, instead of hoping for him produce a miracle on every other 3rd down.

With an established running game, Ben's experience, his play action ability and a good set of receivers the offense can be dangerous. If they lean on Ben like they have been the past few years, they will be inconsistent, instead of dominating.

Pappy

phillyesq
06-11-2012, 03:00 PM
Okay, so, the defense gives up 23 points in regulation, shouldn't an offense be able to score 24 points the way offense is played today? The offense scores 6 points in the first and they dominated, but, because they couldn't score TDs the Broncos are winning the game. The defense's fault? The defense gets them the ball enough in the second half to tie the game and gets them the ball with a minute and a half left in regulation and two timeouts, the offense proceeds to get Ben sacked 3 times in that series. The defense's fault?

As bad as the defense executed they still got the ball to the offense enough, but the offense wasn't good enough against the Denver defense to score points.

You can try all you want to blame anyone except Ben and the offense, but the offense wasn't much better (if at all) than the defense in that game or it would have basically been over at halftime. The defense dominated early and gave up two big plays for TDs. The Steeler offense moved the ball and kicked field goals.

It's a team game, can't win throwing the ball 70% of the time or more, maybe you can win throwing it 60% of the time, but I'd prefer something like 60% passes and 40% runs in the first half to get the lead and then vice versa in the second half to shorten the game, milk the clock and close out the game. Ben's rookie year, the Steelers built leads and then leaned on the running game and put the ball in Ben's hands in good situations for him to make plays. I'd like to see the Steelers put Ben in that position now with 8 years of experience under his belt, instead of hoping for him produce a miracle on every other 3rd down.

With an established running game, Ben's experience, his play action ability and a good set of receivers the offense can be dangerous. If they lean on Ben like they have been the past few years, they will be inconsistent, instead of dominating.

Pappy

:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap

Very well said, Pap.

Crash
06-11-2012, 03:03 PM
They gave up 23 points to the WORST PASSING QB IN FOOTBALL.

If 23 points on the road in the playoffs isn't enough? Then we have a lot of overpriced contracts on that defense.

Crash
06-11-2012, 03:11 PM
The defense dominated early? Because the Steelers offense didn't have the nerve to score on three straight possessions to open the game? They were losing 7-6 despite scoring two of the first three times they had the ball.

Again, the defense also gave up points TWICE, following Steelers scores (A TD and a FG). Like I say, you can't protect them all day. They are going to HAVE to go on the field at some point.

RuthlessBurgher
06-11-2012, 03:55 PM
Blame offense, blame defense, blame coaching, blame injuries, blame, blame, blame, wah, wah, wah...the TEAM as a whole wasn't good enough last season. Changes have been made among the coaching staff, veteran leadership, etc. Injuries heal in the offseason and we've added what appears to be an impressive crop of rookies to the team as well. I'd rather look forward to what this season potentially brings rather than incessantly harping on the blame game for seasons past. But that's just me.

papillon
06-11-2012, 04:20 PM
The defense dominated early? Because the Steelers offense didn't have the nerve to score on three straight possessions to open the game? They were losing 7-6 despite scoring two of the first three times they had the ball.

Again, the defense also gave up points TWICE, following Steelers scores (A TD and a FG). Like I say, you can't protect them all day. They are going to HAVE to go on the field at some point.

Yes, the defense dominated the first quarter, Steelers received and kicked a FG, the defense forces a punt, the Steelers punt, the defense forces a punt, the offense scores a FG and that's basically the end of the quarter. Just like you say, you can only protect the defense before they have to go on the field, well, you can only bail out the offense so much before they have to score TDs instead of FGs.

14-0 nothing after 15 mins and it's a different game, instead it's 6-0 and Denver is still running their game plan, unfortunately, to perfection.

Both sides of the ball weren't good enough to win the game.

Pappy

Crash
06-11-2012, 04:30 PM
If we score 23 points a game? Well go 13-3 if the defense does their job.

You can't expect 30 points a game if you want to run the ball 60% in the 2nd half.

Slapstick
06-11-2012, 04:30 PM
Yes, the defense dominated the first quarter, Steelers received and kicked a FG, the defense forces a punt, the Steelers punt, the defense forces a punt, the offense scores a FG and that's basically the end of the quarter. Just like you say, you can only protect the defense before they have to go on the field, well, you can only bail out the offense so much before they have to score TDs instead of FGs.

14-0 nothing after 15 mins and it's a different game, instead it's 6-0 and Denver is still running their game plan, unfortunately, to perfection.

Both sides of the ball weren't good enough to win the game.

Pappy

Clear, concise and correct, sir...

:Bow:Bow:Bow

Crash
06-11-2012, 04:33 PM
Of course it is, it protects the defense.

Like I said, twice they gave up points after we scored. You can't protect them all day.

ikestops85
06-11-2012, 04:41 PM
The defense dominated early? Because the Steelers offense didn't have the nerve to score on three straight possessions to open the game? They were losing 7-6 despite scoring two of the first three times they had the ball.

Again, the defense also gave up points TWICE, following Steelers scores (A TD and a FG). Like I say, you can't protect them all day. They are going to HAVE to go on the field at some point.

You consider scoring on 2 of your first 3 possessions good when you only put 6 points on the board. Well, the defense only let Denver score once on it's first 3 possessions. If the offense was any good we would have been winning.

Now I did a little research to find out just how bad the Steelers defense performed in the 4th quarter. I mean, they must be horrible ... probably bottom 3rd of the league in points allowed in that quarter. Well here is how the scoring defense did by quarter

1st qtr - allowed 2.5 points on average for a league ranking of #3
2nd qtr - allowed 5.4 points on average for a league ranking of #4
3rd qtr - allowed 3.3 points on average for a league ranking of #5
4th qtr - allowed 3.5 points on average for a league ranking of #1

Wow, our defense just plain collapsed in the 4th quarter They averaged giving up a smidge over a FG in the 4th quarter. What makes your argument really lame is LeBeau's old fashioned, out of date, done defense was better than any other team in the league as far as preventing points scored in the 4th quarter ... the only quarter that matters according to you.

So yes, our 4th quarter defense can improve by not giving up any points in the 4th quarter but just remember that we are better than anybody else out there. DL's defense might not be perfect but it's closer than any other team in the league.

Slapstick
06-11-2012, 04:43 PM
You consider scoring on 2 of your first 3 possessions good when you only put 6 points on the board. Well, the defense only let Denver score once on it's first 3 possessions. If the offense was any good we would have been winning.

Now I did a little research to find out just how bad the Steelers defense performed in the 4th quarter. I mean, they must be horrible ... probably bottom 3rd of the league in points allowed in that quarter. Well here is how the scoring defense did by quarter

1st qtr - allowed 2.5 points on average for a league ranking of #3
2nd qtr - allowed 5.4 points on average for a league ranking of #4
3rd qtr - allowed 3.3 points on average for a league ranking of #5
4th qtr - allowed 3.5 points on average for a league ranking of #1

Wow, our defense just plain collapsed in the 4th quarter They averaged giving up a smidge over a FG in the 4th quarter. What makes your argument really lame is LeBeau's old fashioned, out of date, done defense was better than any other team in the league as far as preventing points scored in the 4th quarter ... the only quarter that matters according to you.

So yes, our 4th quarter defense can improve by not giving up any points in the 4th quarter but just remember that we are better than anybody else out there. DL's defense might not be perfect but it's closer than any other team in the league.

Dude, you aren't allowed to consider the 4th quarter D within the context of the entire season...only the specific instances where Crash can use it to support his argument...

Anything else earn you an accusation of being an uneducated homer who only looks at stat sheets...

Crash
06-11-2012, 04:56 PM
The beat up on no hopers all year.

McCoy, Wallace, Kolb, Collins/Painter, Palko, Gabbert, Kellen Clements, Tarvaris Jackson.

That's half their schedule.

Flacco beat them twice, Tebow beat them, the Steelers tied the game against the Texans, and then Matt Schaub beat them in the 4th.

Hell even when they played Brady, the defense was solid when they were on the field. But what happened in the 4th? They played LeBeau's beloved prevent and they gave up another TD. Thank God Belechik didn't challenge that non call TD, losing those minutes may have cost him that game.

That's 13 games.

They blew a 14-0 lead in Cincy, the offense scored to go up 24-17. That's 14 games.

Their best games were against a rookie from Cincy, old man Matt Hasselbeck, and the Pats game when our offense kept Tom Brady off the field.

Anyone who tries to defend this defense's 2011 4th quarter play is an idiot. Period.

Slapstick
06-11-2012, 05:00 PM
See what I mean?

Crash
06-11-2012, 05:05 PM
You win Slap. The Steelers defense was awesome because they can beat up on those 8 QBs I listed.

My how the mighty have fallen. Beating up on guys like Tyler Palko, Seneca Wallace, and Curtis Painter is now considered an achievement.

AB84
06-11-2012, 11:50 PM
The thought of the same 4th quarter scheme with Butler as DC is scary.

If Butler runs the same defense, with no new innovations or schemes? Big deal.

Maybe if Ben could finish a few drives once in a while, put 7's on the board instead of 3's the "4th QTR scheme" would be a non-issue?

You're too worried about winning arguments about Ben being better than Brady,Manning,Etc. than to look at the big picture and realize that throwing all the time is not a recipe for success.

Ben does not have the patience to make a dominant passing offense work like Brady. Quite simply, he's not smart enough. A lot of people rip Brady for being dink and dunk, but the fact is he's using those high percentage passes as ball control almost run plays, so that they don't score too fast. So that they can wear down a defense while resting their own. This is the only way throwing as much as you want too works, consistently. Ben is capable, but is so far unwilling. His habits of always looking down the field kill too many drives, putting more pressure on our defense... but hey, at least then you can pretend that its this "4th QTR Scheme" and has nothing to do with the 7 times the bonehead could have checked down to move the chains, instead of always looking for the homerun.

Personally, I find the Pats system boring, I think we would be much more effective with a good run/pass balance, with a lot of play action mixed in. To me, that is Ben at his best. I don't think Ben has or will ever have the patience or discipline to be a QB in the Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Manning mold. I don't think he will ever be fully given the keys until he realizes the mental part of the game completely...

We will be a 55/45 run pass mix, play-action type offense this year. Which gives us the best chance to win. Unfortunately for crash, this just means a better chance at #7 and no passing title for Ben.

Tootles...

AB84
06-11-2012, 11:52 PM
You win Slap. The Steelers defense was awesome because they can beat up on those 8 QBs I listed.

My how the mighty have fallen. Beating up on guys like Tyler Palko, Seneca Wallace, and Curtis Painter is now considered an achievement.

Why just this year?

The D has been carrying this team since Bens arrival.

Crash
06-12-2012, 12:15 AM
If we run the ball 55% of the time this season? This team will miss the playoffs.

And if that's the offense the Steelers want? Ben, Wallace, and Brown need to go.

Pay Leftwich $3 mil per, go get one of Haley's old RBs from AZ or KC to team with Redman, draft cheap mid and late round WRs, and run 45 times a game.

Crash
06-12-2012, 12:18 AM
Why just this year?

The D has been carrying this team since Bens arrival.

Um, no they haven't. But you guys keep believing that.

Crash
06-12-2012, 12:19 AM
Maybe if Ben could finish a few drives once in a while, put 7's on the board instead of 3's the "4th QTR scheme" would be a non-issue?

When you run the ball on 65% of red zone first downs? Why blame Ben? Blame Art, that's what he wanted.

hawaiiansteel
06-12-2012, 01:45 AM
When you run the ball on 65% of red zone first downs? Why blame Ben? Blame Art, that's what he wanted. [/COLOR]

I don't blame Ben, I blame Arians.

Art merely wanted more running efficiency which is something that Arians and his predictable and poorly-designed running plays could not deliver.

Crash
06-12-2012, 03:06 AM
I don't blame Ben, I blame Arians.

Art merely wanted more running efficiency which is something that Arians and his predictable and poorly-designed running plays could not deliver.

Art wanted what everyone wants, to protect the defense. Idiots think running is the only way you do that.

Then they'll bitch we don't score enough.

Slapstick
06-12-2012, 07:49 AM
Art wanted what everyone wants, to protect the defense. Idiots think running is the only way you do that.

Then they'll bitch we don't score enough.

Only an idiot thinks that it is impossible to score by running the ball...

steelz09
06-12-2012, 10:50 AM
When you run the ball on 65% of red zone first downs? Why blame Ben? Blame Art, that's what he wanted. [/COLOR]

Given Ben is the franchise QB and a vet, you would think he has an opportunity to audible the play if he thinks a pass would be more effective. But I guess that would require more pre-snap reads from Big Ben.

steelz09
06-12-2012, 10:53 AM
I don't blame Ben, I blame Arians.

Art merely wanted more running efficiency which is something that Arians and his predictable and poorly-designed running plays could not deliver.

Yea, Art doesn't know what he's doing.... God forbid he wants his QB to be healthy going into the playoffs. There's a time for deep passes as well as running as well as shorter passes. Keep 'em guessing .. make them respect the short passes as well as running attack and I think Ben will have a career year.

Crash
06-12-2012, 10:59 AM
Given Ben is the franchise QB and a vet, you would think he has an opportunity to audible the play if he thinks a pass would be more effective. But I guess that would require more pre-snap reads from Big Ben.

Ben audibles plenty. But if he audibles every play to a pass people will bitch his ego is in the way and he needs to run the play called.

Crash
06-12-2012, 11:02 AM
Only an idiot thinks that it is impossible to score by running the ball...

We don't have a home run hitter in the backfield. The way the Steelers run the ball is to milk clock, and keep the defense fresh.

This ain't 1975, you pass to win in this league, you pass to get in the endzone.

If we run on 65% on 1st down in the red zone again? The red zone offense will suck, again.

steelz09
06-12-2012, 11:09 AM
Ben audibles plenty. But if he audibles every play to a pass people will bitch his ego is in the way and he needs to run the play called.

No they won't....Not if he scores a TD which is basically what you think the outcome would be. I don't care how they score a TD as long as they score a TD. I'm not pushing for a 60-40 running to passing attack. More than anything, I want "in game" adjustments. I don't want us to "force feed" a game plan even if it's not working. I want us to utilize the many, many weapons that we have. I'm tired of seeing teams that have less talent than us, score more than us.

Crash
06-12-2012, 11:11 AM
No they won't....Not if he scores a TD which is basically what you think the outcome would be. I don't care how they score a TD as long as they score a TD. I'm not pushing for a 60-40 running to passing attack. More than anything, I want "in game" adjustments. I don't want us to "force feed" a game plan even if it's not working. I want us to utilize the many, many weapons that we have. I'm tired of seeing teams that have less talent than us, score more than us.

Then someone needs to tell the lawyer to either stay out of football decisions or grab a head set.

Eich
06-12-2012, 12:58 PM
Then someone needs to tell the lawyer to either stay out of football decisions or grab a head set.

Show me the QUOTE where the lawyer says he expects us to run MORE. Until then? You have no argument.

Crash
06-12-2012, 01:12 PM
Show me the QUOTE where the lawyer says he expects us to run MORE. Until then? You have no argument.

Telling his QB to tweak his game is wrong.

When is Troy going to be told to tweak HIS game? How many concussions? How many injuries? How many concussions as a result of ducking his head rather than using proper tackling technique?

RuthlessBurgher
06-12-2012, 01:32 PM
The beat up on no hopers all year.

McCoy, Wallace, Kolb, Collins/Painter, Palko, Gabbert, Kellen Clements, Tarvaris Jackson.

That's half their schedule.

Flacco beat them twice, Tebow beat them, the Steelers tied the game against the Texans, and then Matt Schaub beat them in the 4th.

Hell even when they played Brady, the defense was solid when they were on the field. But what happened in the 4th? They played LeBeau's beloved prevent and they gave up another TD. Thank God Belechik didn't challenge that non call TD, losing those minutes may have cost him that game.

That's 13 games.

They blew a 14-0 lead in Cincy, the offense scored to go up 24-17. That's 14 games.

Their best games were against a rookie from Cincy, old man Matt Hasselbeck, and the Pats game when our offense kept Tom Brady off the field.

Anyone who tries to defend this defense's 2011 4th quarter play is an idiot. Period.

Okay...if our defense sucks so bad, name all of the other teams who have a better defense than we do. The way you talk about them, you'd have to think that there were 20 other teams with a better defense than ours (like there are 20 teams whose offenses scored more than our offense).

Slapstick
06-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Telling his QB to tweak his game is wrong.

When is Troy going to be told to tweak HIS game? How many concussions? How many injuries? How many concussions as a result of ducking his head rather than using proper tackling technique?

Is Troy being paid $15 million?

If the lawyer is signing the checks, he can suggest that the QB tweak his game...

Preferably, as I have previously pointed out, like Aaron Rodgers...

Crash
06-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Is Troy being paid $15 million?

If the lawyer is signing the checks, he can suggest that the QB tweak his game...

Preferably, as I have previously pointed out, like Aaron Rodgers...

Rodgers tweaked nothing. Still took big hits, still missed games as a result of concussions.

The difference between Rodgers and Ben is the Packers treat the run game as an after thought.

Art wants it to be the focal point.

Slapstick
06-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Rodgers tweaked nothing. Still took big hits, still missed games as a result of concussions.


tweak

verb (used with object)
to make a minor adjustment to

I'm afraid that you may be confusing the word "tweak" with this phrase:


sea change

noun

any major transformation or alteration

Of course Rodgers still took big hits...he didn't attempt to change his game completely...

But, he learned to take way fewer sacks and, as a result, fumbled the ball fewer times...

I still don't understand why fewer sacks and fewer turnovers is such a bad thing...

It can be done, without forcing the QB to be something he is not...that is a tweak...

RuthlessBurgher
06-12-2012, 03:24 PM
Webster's Dictionary definition of TWEAK: [verb] to make usually small adjustments in or to <tweak the controls>; especially : fine-tune

Crash's Dictionary definition of TWEAK: [verb] to neuter a $15 million quarterback by converting him into a Carson Palmer or Byron Leftwich type of game manager because a medding, sperm-lottery winning, private-practice lawyer is obsessed with 1975 football like the rest of these backward hick yinzers. Yoi!

hawaiiansteel
06-12-2012, 04:23 PM
The difference between Rodgers and Ben is the Packers treat the run game as an after thought.


do you realize that the Steelers only threw the ball 13 times less than the Packers in the 2011 regular season, 539 times to the Packers 552 times?

RuthlessBurgher
06-12-2012, 04:35 PM
do you realize that the Steelers only threw the ball 13 times less than the Packers in the 2011 regular season, 539 times to the Packers 552 times?

The post-tweak Aaron Rodgers threw the ball 502 times last season. He threw for 4,643 yards, 45 TD's, and 6 INT's.

The pre-tweak Ben Roethlisberger threw the ball 513 times last season. He threw for 4,077 yards, 21 TD's, and 14 INT's.

Ben threw the ball 11 more times than Aaron, but ended up with 566 fewer yards, 24 fewer TD's, and 8 more INT's.

Yeah, Ben definitely shouldn't tweak his game like Aaron did...no way.

papillon
06-12-2012, 04:38 PM
The post-tweak Aaron Rodgers threw the ball 502 times last season. He threw for 4,643 yards, 45 TD's, and 6 INT's.

The pre-tweak Ben Roethlisberger threw the ball 513 times last season. He threw for 4,077 yards, 21 TD's, and 14 INT's.

Ben threw the ball 11 more times than Aaron, but ended up with 566 fewer yards, 24 fewer TD's, and 8 more INT's.

Yeah, Ben definitely shouldn't tweak his game like Aaron did...no way.













Stop with the logic already would you it isn't fair.

Pappy

Crash
06-12-2012, 04:47 PM
I wish we would use Ben like Green Bay uses Rodgers. We'd never lose.

Right off the bat, I will list that Rodgers threw the ball 20 more times on first down than Ben did and took more sacks.

He also threw the ball 84 times from the opponents 19 yard line and in, Ben? 56.

BY all means, let's use Ben the same way, instead of handing the ball off.

papillon
06-12-2012, 04:52 PM
I wish we would use Ben like Green Bay uses Rodgers. We'd never lose.

Right off the bat, I will list that Rodgers threw the ball 20 more times on first down than Ben did and took more sacks.

He also threw the ball 84 times from the opponents 19 yard line and in, Ben? 56.

BY all means, let's use Ben the same way, instead of handing the ball off.

I would love the Packer offense in Pittsburgh and it would be even better because of the threat of the running game, not despite the running the game. I'm really hoping that the offensive line pans out as we all hope and Ben will be able to drop back and not have to worry about being decleated. His numbers should go through the roof, because contrary to popular belief Ben can actually play quarterback from the pocket, but simply adds a dimension that very few (if any) other quarterbacks can add and that is playing outside the pocket.

Pappy

Crash
06-12-2012, 04:54 PM
His numbers WON'T go through the roof as long as they are winning because the minute they get ahead people start yelling for the run.

flippy
06-12-2012, 04:59 PM
He also threw the ball 84 times from the opponents 19 yard line and in, Ben? 56.



I think it's fair to question Ben's IQ. I seem to remember it's not as high as most elite QBs. And I've heard people comment it may be the reason Ben's not as effective making plays in the RedZone where the field is short, decisions have to be made faster, and there's less room for error.

At the same time, Ben excels when a play breaks down. He's a beast to bring down. And when he's making throws downfield not thinking, he overcomes his IQ.

Fair or not? I've heard others question his IQ. It may be a reasonable thought.

papillon
06-12-2012, 05:27 PM
His numbers will go through the roof as long as they are winning because the minute they get ahead people start yelling for the run.

JFC, you're so full of crap that your eyes are brown, there is absolutely no proof that fans want the Steelers to run the ball if they have a lead, that's your myopic view of Steeler fans. Have you ever lived in Pittsburgh? It doesn't sound like you have; I grew up there, the fan base enjoys winning, whether it be running the ball, passing the ball, both, special teams or winning ugly. I don't know where in God's green earth you conjure up these thoughts of Steeler football fans.

Pappy

Crash
06-12-2012, 05:35 PM
I think it's fair to question Ben's IQ. I seem to remember it's not as high as most elite QBs

Based on what?

AB84
06-12-2012, 06:51 PM
I wish we would use Ben like Green Bay uses Rodgers. We'd never lose.

Right off the bat, I will list that Rodgers threw the ball 20 more times on first down than Ben did and took more sacks.

He also threw the ball 84 times from the opponents 19 yard line and in, Ben? 56.

BY all means, let's use Ben the same way, instead of handing the ball off.

Ben is not nearly as accurate as Rodgers, it wouldn't be the same result. Rodgers actually throws the ball BEFORE the receiver is open, not a few seconds after. AR does this consistently and is a big reason why the Packers can play that way in the Redzone. If Ben could do this consistently I'm sure he would get more chances, but he hasn't show that he can. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's the truth.

Crash
06-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Ben is not nearly as accurate as Rodgers, it wouldn't be the same result. Rodgers actually throws the ball BEFORE the receiver is open, not a few seconds after

The ol' StillerNation logic. It's wrong, and always good for a laugh.

Eich
06-12-2012, 06:54 PM
I don't know where in God's green earth you conjure up these thoughts of Steeler football fans.

Pappy

It comes from an agenda + listening to Mark Madden and a few idiots that call into his show.

Crash
06-12-2012, 06:55 PM
It comes from an agenda + listening to Mark Madden and a few idiots that call into his show.

Mark Madden didn't tell Arians to commit to the run game. II did.

AB84
06-12-2012, 06:58 PM
The ol' StillerNation logic. It's wrong, and always good for a laugh.

Actually, it has nothing to do with Stillernation...I rarely agree with anyone about Ben on that site, so nice try. I have my own thoughts, and those are based on what I see with my eyeballs, not someone else's opinion.

So you are saying that is a false statement then? Please explain.

Eich
06-12-2012, 07:06 PM
Mark Madden didn't tell Arians to commit to the run game. II did.


II didn't tell Arians that Commit = run more
II didn't tell Arians that Commit = run in predictable situations

Too bad for Arians that his idea of commit was to run in predictable situations. That's not on II. It's on Arians and it's why he's gone.

If Haley does what he SAYS he's going to do, you'll see a commitment to an effective run game that does not mean running MORE and does NOT mean underutilizing Ben and our offensive weapons.

Crash
06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
Actually, it has nothing to do with Stillernation...I rarely agree with anyone about Ben on that site, so nice try. I have my own thoughts, and those are based on what I see with my eyeballs, not someone else's opinion.

So you are saying that is a false statement then? Please explain.

This whole notion that Ben doesn't throw before receivers make breaks and waits for them to get open is laughable and simply inaccurate and that was started on SN by their esteemed admin who's a convicted felon, and noted Kordell Stewart apologist. He also claimed that Ben Roethlisberger, despite winning the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2004 didn't play his position "at an NFL level".

Ben has always made throws before receivers make their breaks. And people who say he does not? Simply don't watch him.

hawaiiansteel
06-12-2012, 07:14 PM
It comes from an agenda + listening to Mark Madden and a few idiots that call into his show.

sounds very familiar...

Madden: Arians' firing makes little sense

By Mark Madden Times Sports Columnist
Jan. 24, 2012

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/4a/94aac78b-0fed-5c97-88fd-3f92d8194fb7/4f1ceac1b7106.preview-300.jpg


Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, right, and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians talk on the sidelines.

Is Art Rooney II qualified to run a football team in any way that goes beyond his birthright?

That doesn’t matter. The birthright does.

That truth was held to be self-evident this past week as the Steelers president, after doing a round of media self-promotion, decided to use his thunderbolts to smite Bruce Arians, relieving the offensive coordinator of his duties.

The Steelers say Arians retired. That’s a lie. The Steelers decided to not renew his contract.

Head coach Mike Tomlin wanted Arians back, having reportedly told him that since the playoff loss at Denver. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is an Arians supporter and friend, having saved his job two years ago, and is said to be miffed that Arians got dismissed. Can’t wait to hear what Roethlisberger has to say at the Pro Bowl (where Arians and his wife will be Ben’s guest).

So, who’s left? General Manager Kevin Colbert? Colbert wouldn’t overrule Tomlin in this situation.

It looks like Rooney, after saying it was “Mike’s decision,” dropped the guillotine.

Why?

The Steelers’ red-zone efficiency was dismal at Denver, leaving lots of points on the table in the first quarter. But the Steelers’ defense was pathetic all day, adjusting not one bit as Tim Tebow carved them to ribbons. Arians is the scapegoat. Defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau is Teflon.

Looking at the regular season, the Steelers were 12th in the NFL in yards gained, just 21st in points. Not a good contrast. But the Steelers’ offense was doubtless hurt by a defense that collected just 15 takeaways, fewest in the league. The offense didn’t get many short fields, or easy points.

Receivers Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown each caught over 1,000 yards worth of passes. Roethlisberger threw for over 4,000. The Steelers sent four offensive players to Pro Bowl. That hadn’t happened since 2004.

You can’t knock the running game, either: It averaged 4.4 yards per carry, the best mark since 2001.

Looking at Arians’ five-year tenure, his offense helped the Steelers get to two Super Bowls, winning one. His successor will not have done that, or do that. Guaranteed.

Arians hasn’t always had the best players to work with, particularly on the line. When it comes to excellence, the Steelers spend on defense first. You can’t cook gourmet meals when half your ingredients are from 7-11. All things considered, Arians did fine.

Overachieved, even.

So why was Arians fired? For a few debatable play calls? Why not fire Tomlin for consistently poor clock management? Or LeBeau for the debacle at Denver?

Or why not leave pretty good alone? An early playoff exit aside, 12-4 is an excellent season.

This is bizarre. This seems like a decision made by a talk-show caller. Knee-jerk. Hasty. Against the grain.

In 2010, Rooney said that he wanted the Steelers to run more. This season, they ran on 43 percent of their offensive snaps. Is that enough? Arians is the man who minimized Steelers’ icon Hines Ward. Perhaps that didn’t sit well with upper management. Word is the Steelers may bring back Aaron Smith despite injuries that sidelined him for most of the last three seasons. Tradition counts.

Maybe it counts too much.

Maybe Rooney wants to pay Roethlisberger $102 million to hand off more.

Maybe Rooney wants to pound the ball on the ground, just like granddaddy’s team.

According to ESPN.com, sources say Arians was canned with an eye toward shifting “the offense back toward its blue-collar identity of years past, in line with the desires of Steelers president Art Rooney II.”

Anybody got Jerome Bettis’ number?

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/madden-arians-firing-makes-little-sense/article_db288763-f407-5f4a-88a5-f669a8a9d08b.html

AB84
06-12-2012, 07:24 PM
This whole notion that Ben doesn't throw before receivers make breaks and waits for them to get open is laughable and simply inaccurate and that was started on SN by their esteemed admin who's a convicted felon, and noted Kordell Stewart apologist. He also claimed that Ben Roethlisberger, despite winning the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2004 didn't play his position "at an NFL level".

Ben has always made throws before receivers make their breaks. And people who say he does not? Simply don't watch him.


I'm not interested in your past drama with that site in the least. I figured you would get all cliche' with your "simply don't watch" bailout-go to-quote. Problem is I do watch, actually haven't missed a snap in Bens career. I also didn't state he never makes those throws, that was clear, but obvious you couldn't respond to my comment without twisting it first, like you are famous for....For the most part, like I said, he waits. Those who don't notice that, don't watch or don't know what they are watching. With you, I'll go with the latter.

hawaiiansteel
06-12-2012, 07:44 PM
II didn't tell Arians that Commit = run more
II didn't tell Arians that Commit = run in predictable situations

Too bad for Arians that his idea of commit was to run in predictable situations. That's not on II. It's on Arians and it's why he's gone.


http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8546/ariansplaybook.jpg

Crash
06-12-2012, 07:47 PM
I didn't hear anyone bitching about WR screens when Whiz did it. The ONLY WR in 2011 who couldn't use it effectively was over the hill Hines.

But hey, when his role was reduced fans and media were whining about that too. They were more worried about his 1000 catches then they were about winning games.

flippy
06-12-2012, 08:59 PM
Based on what?

I heard someone about a year ago talking about Wunderlic scores of great QBs. And the only 2 to buck the trend that were significantly lower than most of the other greats were Ben and Favre and they have a similar game to a degree.

There may have been a few others. It was an interesting discussion. Whoever it was really harped on Ben and Favre not being that smart compared to most others.

Crash
06-12-2012, 09:21 PM
Ben's was 25.


Elway 30

Aikman 29

Brees 28

Peyton 28

Favre 22

Marino 16

Jim Kelly 16


All of those guys are headed to Canton. Ben was 3 points less than alleged QB Braniac Peyton Manning.

papillon
06-12-2012, 11:51 PM
I didn't hear anyone bitching about WR screens when Whiz did it. The ONLY WR in 2011 who couldn't use it effectively was over the hill Hines.

But hey, when his role was reduced fans and media were whining about that too. They were more worried about his 1000 catches then they were about winning games.

I can't argue with this, the WR screens were as effective as a good running play except when they were throwing them to Hines to get him 1,000 catches. I'm glad he got them and then the Steelers released him, because he was taking a spot ion the roster that a young football player should have. I loved the way Hines played football and for the most part off the field. there were times he needed to STFU, but for the most part it was all good.

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 03:03 AM
I heard someone about a year ago talking about Wunderlic scores of great QBs.

and you flippy get one point deducted from your score for misspelling the word "Wonderlic"...:razz:

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 07:47 AM
Mark Madden didn't tell Arians to commit to the run game. II did.

Then he should have done that...

He would still be here and Ben would be happier...

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Then he should have done that

58% on first down, 65% on first down red zone.

He did.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 01:58 PM
58% on first down, 65% on first down red zone.

He did.

44% overall.

He didn't.

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:02 PM
45% overall.

He didn't.

So again, when they are down big you want to run the ball and quit, right?

So again, when they are in hurry up at the end of the half or the end of a game, you want to run the ball and quit, right?

Because that's what you sound like when all you do is read stats.

flippy
06-13-2012, 02:07 PM
Ben's was 25.


Elway 30

Aikman 29

Brees 28

Peyton 28

Favre 22

Marino 16

Jim Kelly 16


All of those guys are headed to Canton. Ben was 3 points less than alleged QB Braniac Peyton Manning.

Interesting numbers. I do remember the guy mentioning the reason Marino and Kelly didn't win the big one was because of their scores.

Any idea of what the scores are of QBs that are SuperBowl winners?

flippy
06-13-2012, 02:11 PM
and you flippy get one point deducted from your score for misspelling the word "Wonderlic"...:razz:

Did I mention that not only would I be the dumbest QB by far, but I'd have the biggest noodle arm in the league. I need some serious air under a football to throw it 40 yards. Every pass I threw would likely be a pick 6 unless I had Larry or Megatron fighting for the ball.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 02:22 PM
So again, when they are down big you want to run the ball and quit, right?

So again, when they are in hurry up at the end of the half or the end of a game, you want to run the ball and quit, right?

Because that's what you sound like when all you do is read stats.

And again with the ad hominem argument crap.

The only one saying "run the ball and quit" is you...

I want the Steelers to win Super Bowls. In order to do that, the offense needs to be better than 21st in scoring. In order to do that, the Steelers need to be able to run effectively and have a less predictable offense. In order to do that, the run game needs to improve.

What's so tough to understand?

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Interesting numbers. I do remember the guy mentioning the reason Marino and Kelly didn't win the big one was because of their scores.

Any idea of what the scores are of QBs that are SuperBowl winners?

Um, the first 6 guys I listed all have rings.

Jim Kelly's 16 score can't make Scott Norwood kick a football better.

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:23 PM
And again with the ad hominem argument crap.

The only one saying "run the ball and quit" is you...

I want the Steelers to win Super Bowls. In order to do that, the offense needs to be better than 21st in scoring. In order to do that, the Steelers need to be able to run effectively and have a less predictable offense. In order to do that, the run game needs to improve.

And yet not ONE MENTION of lack of turnovers forced and 4th quarter defense?

Got it.

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 02:27 PM
And yet not ONE MENTION of lack of turnovers forced and 4th quarter defense?

Got it.


the Saints only forced one more turnover than we did all year long yet they scored 222 points more than we did and I'm sure their 4th quarter defense wasn't that great either.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 02:28 PM
And yet not ONE MENTION of lack of turnovers forced and 4th quarter defense?

Got it.

The offense need to control what they can control. They can control red zone scoring %.

And you do the same thing...when the offense "bailed out the defense" in SB XLIII, there is no mention of the safety that the offense gave up...or the game ending sack/fumble..or the defensive TD...

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:30 PM
the Saints only forced one more turnover than we did all year long yet they scored 222 points more than we did and I'm sure their 4th quarter defense wasn't that great either.

And if Ben throws the ball 657 times in 2013? Todd Haley will be fired by Art Rooney II.

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:33 PM
The offense need to control what they can control

Well you blamed the offense for the first quarter in Houston and the Texans held the ball for 12 minutes to start that quarter.

The safety was a BS call, watch the play. You know what's sad though? What did they do on 2nd down on that drive?

Ran the ball from their own yard line just like Art wants.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 02:36 PM
And if Ben throws the ball 657 times in 2013? Todd Haley will be fired by Art Rooney II.

Because they probably won't win the SB if they pass 600+ times...

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 02:38 PM
Well you blamed the offense for the first quarter in Houston and the Texans held the ball for 12 minutes to start that quarter.

The safety was a BS call, watch the play. You know what's sad though? What did they do on 2nd down on that drive?

Ran the ball from their own yard line just like Art wants.

I blame the offense for scoring only three points in the second and third quarters..

As you often point out, games are 60 minutes...for the offense, too...

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 02:40 PM
You know what's sad though? What did they do on 2nd down on that drive?

Ran the ball from their own yard line just like Art wants.

no, that was Arians' decision to run the ball and be predictable as usual. he had the freedom to call any play he wanted, Art II wasn't in his ear demanding that he call a running play that everyone in the stadium knew was coming. don't blame Art II for Arians' incompetency as an OC...

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:41 PM
Because they probably won't win the SB if they pass 600+ times...

So again, you'd rather just force the run?

You guys want points but you want to play 1970s football.

It won't work in this NFL. Not when you force 15 turnovers on defense all year.

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:43 PM
no, that was Arians' decision to run the ball and be predictable as usual. he had the freedom to call any play he wanted,

And if Ben gets sacked? Then what?

RUN THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 02:49 PM
And if Ben gets sacked? Then what?

RUN THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!

[/COLOR]


although Arians seemed unaware of this except for his infamous WR bubble screens, not every passing play has to go deep and involve a 7-step drop. you are allowed to throw shorter quick-hitting passes to the RBs and TEs in that situation. yet another reason Arians had to go...

Crash
06-13-2012, 02:55 PM
although Arians seemed unaware of this except for his infamous WR bubble screens, not every passing play has to go deep and involve a 7-step drop. you are allowed to throw shorter quick-hitting passes to the RBs and TEs in that situation. yet another reason Arians had to go...

301 of Ben's passes were thrown for 10 yards or LESS in length in 2011.

We throw plenty of short passes.

Not an issue.

What you won't see, what I hope I NEVER see, is Ben taking a 5 yard dump on 3rd and long and walk off the field.

If Ben does what you guys want on this play, takes the easy way out and walks off the field? They lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K8Ln5TQjwo

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 03:24 PM
301 of Ben's passes were thrown for 10 yards or LESS in length in 2011.

We throw plenty of short passes.

Not an issue.

What you won't see, what I hope I NEVER see, is Ben taking a 5 yard dump on 3rd and long and walk off the field.

If Ben does what you guys want on this play, takes the easy way out and walks off the field? They lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K8Ln5TQjwo

Are you truly so stupid as to equate a commitment to running effectively with intentionall not trying to convert a 3rd down? I can't believe that you are...

How about on 3rd and 2 when Arians trots out the empty backfield set? When you have Isaac Redman who is great on 3rd and short? Should you pass for the sake of passing? Is an empty backfield smart in that context?

Crash
06-13-2012, 03:50 PM
How about on 3rd and 2 when Arians trots out the empty backfield set?

Very rare. MOST of the empty sets are on SECOND DOWN.

On 3rd down and short if they are in shotgun? They usually have at least a RB in the backfield, and sometimes he is joined by Heath Miller.

Gotta pay attention Slap.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Very rare. MOST of the empty sets are on SECOND DOWN.

On 3rd down and short if they are in shotgun? They usually have at least a RB in the backfield, and sometimes he is joined by Heath Miller.

Gotta pay attention Slap.

It's also very rare that the Steelers are down 29-7...

Since when is rarity a reason that something can't be used in an argument?

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:05 PM
It's also very rare that the Steelers are down 29-7...

Since when is rarity a reason that something can't be used in an argument?

So you are comparing a 29-7 score to the fact that you are flat out lying about downs and formations?

I hope Haley does what you guys want. Run/pass 50% TOTAL.

Just don't bitch when they go 8-8.

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 04:10 PM
I hope Haley does what you guys want. Run/pass 50% TOTAL.


yes, I do hope that Haley has a 50% run/pass total on first downs and in the red zone on first downs instead of being so predictable that other teams' defenses know what's coming.

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:11 PM
TOTAL. Not 1st down. Slap wants 50% TOTAL.

I hope he gets it.

Then I want to see what excuse he can drum for LeBeau then.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 04:14 PM
So you are comparing a 29-7 score to the fact that you are flat out lying about downs and formations?

I hope Haley does what you guys want. Run/pass 50% TOTAL.

Just don't bitch when they go 8-8.

So now you're calling me a liar? Seriously?

That's your big move to prove your point?

"Nah-nah-nah-nah-boo-boo, you're a liar!"

Dude, do better!

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 04:16 PM
TOTAL. Not 1st down. Slap wants 50% TOTAL.

I hope he gets it.

Then I want to see what excuse he can drum for LeBeau then.

Now who's lying?

I never said 50/50 total...

You really want the Steelers to go 8-8?

Come on, Crash!

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:16 PM
So now you're calling me a liar? Seriously?

Anyone who says they run empty sets on 3rd and short on a regular basis? Is a liar or doesn't pay attention to the game.

You can pick.

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:17 PM
I never said 50/50 total...

Excuse me? You said it yesteday.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 04:26 PM
Anyone who says they run empty sets on 3rd and short on a regular basis? Is a liar or doesn't pay attention to the game.

You can pick.

They also aren't down 29-7 on a regular basis...

If you say they are, you are either lying or don't watch the games.

Take your pick.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 04:29 PM
Excuse me? You said it yesteday. [/COLOR]

Please, reproduce the post in its' entirety...

Remember, you're all about context, so don't try to pull something out of context from a separate discussion...

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:29 PM
They also aren't down 29-7 on a regular basis...

Never said they were Slap.

The problem however, is that when they get down big? Morons still want this team to run the ball.

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:31 PM
You say 56% passing is too much. You want it closer to 50%.

So for the 10th time in two days: What is the NUMBER you want?

Fill in the blank below:

__%

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 04:33 PM
The problem however, is that when they get down big? Morons still want this team to run the ball. [/COLOR]

I'm pretty sure most Steelers fans are intelligent enough to realize that when you're down 29-7 that we need to pass the ball.

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:37 PM
I'm pretty sure most Steelers fans are intelligent enough to realize that when you're down 29-7 that we need to pass the ball.

You obviously don't read or listen to local media or Yinzers on talk shows.

Rushing attempts means EVERYTHING to this particular group of "fans".

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 04:39 PM
You obviously don't read or listen to local media or Yinzers on talk shows.

Rushing attempts means EVERYTHING to this particular group of "fans".


perhaps, but not when we are down 29-7.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 04:48 PM
You say 56% passing is too much. You want it closer to 50%.

So for the 10th time in two days: What is the NUMBER you want?

Fill in the blank below:

__%

Between 50% and 55%...

I don't want to get too wrapped up in statistics...I'd let the games unfold and see where things end up at the end of the year...

If the Steelers go 13-3 and win the SB by passing 60% of the time, Art II and I would both be happy with that...

But, history says that won't happen for the Steelers..

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:51 PM
Anything under 55% is too low.

Between 55% and 59% should be the target if they value their current skill over the past.

The fact that you would be happy with 51% is laughable.

Crash
06-13-2012, 04:52 PM
<-------------------------Maybe this guy would make a comeback? He'd come cheap.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 04:56 PM
Anything under 55% is too low.

Between 55% and 59% should be the target if they value their current skill over the past.

The fact that you would be happy with 51% is laughable.

If they pass 51% of the time and go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl?

You wouldn't be happy with that?

Crash
06-13-2012, 05:01 PM
If they pass 51% of the time and go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl?

You wouldn't be happy with that?

Won't happen. Not in Roger Goodell's new NFL.

The Giants were last in the league in rushing in the first full season of Roger Goodell "safety conscience" NFL, they were also last in the league in yards per carry.

They won the Super Bowl.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 06:28 PM
Won't happen. Not in Roger Goodell's new NFL.

The Giants were last in the league in rushing in the first full season of Roger Goodell "safety conscience" NFL, they were also last in the league in yards per carry.

They won the Super Bowl.

Of course they did...

In the playoffs, they led all playoff teams in rushing attempts and rushing yardage...

Crash
06-13-2012, 06:45 PM
Of course they did...

In the playoffs, they led all playoff teams in rushing attempts and rushing yardage...

Their "rushing offense" did squat in San Francisco until that returner fumbled away their season.

I will guarantee you right now. that one of the conference champions, will be ranked 28th or worse in rushing.

It's a passing league Slap, if the Rooney's won't realize that? Let the YMC and their QB play elsewhere.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 06:49 PM
It's a passing league Slap, if the Rooney's won't realize that? Let the YMC and their QB play elsewhere.

If Ben and the YMC can't do any better than 21st in scoring while passing 56% of the time, you may be right...

Crash
06-13-2012, 06:49 PM
In the playoffs, they led all playoff teams in rushing attempts and rushing yardage...

They were also the only team out of the 10 playoff teams to play 4 games.

LIke I said, context.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 06:51 PM
They were also the only team out of the 10 playoff teams to play 4 games.

LIke I said, context. [/COLOR]

I know that as well...

But, as you pointed out, the rushng offense did "squat" against San Fran...so, they racked up most of that in three games...

Context...

Crash
06-13-2012, 06:51 PM
If Ben and the YMC can't do any better than 21st in scoring while passing 56% of the time, you may be right...

So you DO want Ben gone? At least you admit it.

Finally, the truth comes out.

If the Rooney's are hell bent on their 58% 1st down rush offense? No need to pay them.

Leftwich/Redman/Cotchery/Rainey can do the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 06:53 PM
So you DO want Ben gone? At least you admit it.

Finally, the truth comes out.

Huh?

I said that "you (Crash) may be right"...

So, who wants Ben gone?

phillyesq
06-13-2012, 06:56 PM
They were also the only team out of the 10 playoff teams to play 4 games.

LIke I said, context. [/COLOR]

As a watcher of games, I'm sure you saw that the Giants were able to run when they saw two deep safeties. Balance.

Crash
06-13-2012, 06:58 PM
racked up most of that in three games...

Context...

Please, Eli was the reason they won early in the post season. Aaron freaking Rodgers had more yards rushing in round two than any Giants runner did when he played them.

REALITY.....

Crash
06-13-2012, 07:06 PM
As a watcher of games, I'm sure you saw that the Giants were able to run when they saw two deep safeties. Balance.

163 passes in 4 games for Eli.

114 rushes in 4 games for the Giants.

That's 58% passing if my math is right. WORSE than Arians 2011 I might add.

Balance my ass.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 07:08 PM
172 yards rushing vs. Atlanta

147 yards rushing vs. GB

114 yards rushing vs. NE

Yup, that's most of it...

Crash
06-13-2012, 07:14 PM
So the attempts don't matter now? Yards is the barometer today?

Then you must admit Arians was wrongfully fired.

10th in passing and 14th in rushing based on yards is plenty balanced.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 07:42 PM
So the attempts don't matter now? Yards is the barometer today?

Then you must admit Arians was wrongfully fired.

10th in passing and 14th in rushing based on yards is plenty balanced.

That's an excellent question...

So, what's the barometer of an effective rushing attack?

Is it running 58% of the time on first down and then abandoning the run and throwing (2011 Steelers)?

Or

Is it being able to run the football when you need to and force the opposing defense to respect your running game (2011 Giants Playoff run)?

I said that I felt 56% was perhaps too much passing, but I have always maintained that Arians did not commit to the run and was fired because the offense was 21st in scoring with all of their elite talent...

Besides, why are you quoting rankings to me...are you some kind of stats geek or something?

Crash
06-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Is it being able to run the football when you need to and force the opposing defense to respect your running game (2011 Giants Playoff run)?

They were last in the league in rushing. They were last in the league in yards per carry.

The Steelers were 14th in the league in rushing, they had their highest YPC in 10 seasons, and they also had a 100 yard rusher in their lone playoff game.

If it's good enough for the Giants, then Arians was wrongfully fired to spare LeBeau.

It can't be one for the Giants and the other for Arians.

You can't demand more running behind an injury riddled OL, and then whine for more scoring when you want them to run when your defense forces 15 turnovers all year.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 07:54 PM
They were last in the league in rushing. They were last in the league in yards per carry.

The Steelers were 14th in the league in rushing, they had their highest YPC in 10 seasons, and they also had a 100 yard rusher in their lone playoff game.

If it's good enough for the Giants, then Arians was wrongfully fired to spare LeBeau.

It can't be one for the Giants and the other for Arians.

You can't demand more running behind an injury riddled OL, and then whine for more scoring when you want them to run when your defense forces 15 turnovers all year.




The Giants were 7th in scoring while the Steelers were 21st...

The Giants were 9th in red zone scoring % while the Steelers were 17th...

The Giants were last in rushing yardage, but 9th in rushing TDs per game...

What does that context tell you?

Crash
06-13-2012, 08:03 PM
The Giants were 7th in scoring while the Steelers were 21st

The Giants forced 32 turnovers to the Steelers 15.

More turnovers leads to cheap points. Even when you rank last in rushing.

The Giants value Eli. The Steelers treat Ben like Cliff Stoudt.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 08:06 PM
Perhaps you missed this part:


The Giants were 9th in red zone scoring % while the Steelers were 17th...

That's a % of TDs scored...

Cheap points are nice, but efficient offense is better...

Crash
06-13-2012, 08:22 PM
Perhaps you missed this part:



That's a % of TDs scored...

Cheap points are nice, but efficient offense is better...

Cheap points is vital to scoring points the way we play football.

The Steelers had HALF the turnovers in 2011, that they had in 2010.

They went down 9 spots in scoring.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 09:28 PM
IMO, the Steelers can't depend upon the D for turnovers. Instead of lamenting what the defense does not do, improve what the offense does: specifically red zone scoring.

Regardless of how far they went to get there, they need to improve once they get inside the 20...7s instead of 3s...

Crash
06-13-2012, 09:42 PM
IMO, the Steelers can't depend upon the D for turnovers

When they demand a commitment to the run game? You better damn well get some turnovers for the offense.

Or else the chances to score points is severely limited.

You can't want them to run the ball close to 50% as you wish, and not expect turnovers to help their scoring.

That's not realistic.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 10:05 PM
When they demand a commitment to the run game? You better damn well get some turnovers for the offense.

Or else the chances to score points is severely limited.

You can't want them to run the ball close to 50% as you wish, and not expect turnovers to help their scoring.

That's not realistic.


Why not? Why does running have to be synonymous with not scoring?

The Steelers passed 56% of the time and didn't score!!

The top three teams that rushed for the greatest percentage of their plays all made the playoffs: Denver, Houston and San Francisco...

None of those teams have a QB as good as Ben..I guess Schaub would be the closest of the three, but it isn't even really that close and he missed significant time...

Now, I DO NOT WANT THE STEELERS TO RUN MORE THAN THEY PASS...

But, I do want the Steelers to have a good running game because I think that will increase their chances of winning more than increasing the number of passes...

If it ends up close to 50% and they win? I'm fine with that...

If it is skewed slightly more towards the pass (52-53%) and they win? I'm fine with that...

If they end up passing 60% of the time and they win? I'm fine with that...but, history shows that increased passing does not lead to increased winning or even increased scoring with this team...

Hell, if they ran 60% of the time and won the SB, I'd be fine with that...but, I don't see than happening either...

Crash
06-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Just so we are clear here, you are PRAISING Denver, even though they ran the ball more than anyone in the league, and scored LESS than the Steelers?

If anything, they just made my case for me, and blew yours out of the water.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 10:44 PM
Just so we are clear here, you are PRAISING Denver, even though they ran the ball more than anyone in the league, and scored LESS than the Steelers?

If anything, they just made my case for me, and blew yours out of the water.

How did running the ball more than the Steelers and scoring less work out in the playoffs?

Crash
06-13-2012, 10:47 PM
How did running the ball more than the Steelers and scoring less work out in the playoffs?

They didn't beat us with their ground game. They beat us through the air.

Then the next week the #1 in the NFL in rushing attempts Broncos couldn't throw the ball and they were starched by the Pats.

Next?

The WORST TEAM IN THE NFL in rushing and yards per carry won the Super Bowl.

Class dismissed.

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 10:52 PM
They didn't beat us with their ground game. They beat us through the air.



that's because we had to respect Denver's ground game...

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 10:55 PM
They didn't beat us with their ground game. They beat us through the air.

Exactly my point...

The Steelers sold out to stop the run and Tim Tebow had the game of his life...

Imagine how effective a HoF QB, like Ben Roethlisberger, would be in that situation?

That's the situation the Steelers had in 2005...

Now, Ben is more mature and entering the prime of his career...

Last year, Arians didn't fully commit to the run which put the Steelers' offense into predictable passing situations which allowed teams to shut down Mike Wallace in the 2nd half of the season and sack Ben Roethlisberger 50 times...

Say what you want, but if you think playoff opponents didn't respect the threat of Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs, with their almost 1700 yards rushing, 4 YpC and 18 rushing TDs in the regular season alone, you're crazy...

Crash
06-13-2012, 10:59 PM
that's because we had to respect Denver's ground game...

Their ground game was garbage. All they did was use it more often because Tebow couldn't throw.

All that running. And they were in an 8-8 football team that lost their last three regular season games, two of them to absolute joke 6 win teams Buffalo and Kansas City when they needed ONE win to earn a playoff spot.

Carson Palmer put the Broncos in the playoffs, no one else.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 11:00 PM
Their ground game was garbage. All they did was use it more often because Tebow couldn't throw.

All that running. And they were in an 8-8 football team that lost their last three regular season games, two of them to absolute joke 6 win teams Buffalo and Kansas City when they needed ONE win to earn a playoff spot.

Carson Palmer put the Broncos in the playoffs, no one else.

And Tim Tebow took them to round 2 because the Steelers sold out to stop the run...

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Exactly my point...

The Steelers sold out to stop the run and Tim Tebow had the game of his life...

Imagine how effective a HoF QB, like Ben Roethlisberger, would be in that situation?

That's the situation the Steelers had in 2005...

Now, Ben is more mature and entering the prime of his career...

Last year, Arians didn't fully commit to the run which put the Steelers' offense into predictable passing situations which allowed teams to shut down Mike Wallace in the 2nd half of the season and sack Ben Roethlisberger 50 times...

Say what you want, but if you think playoff opponents didn't respect the threat of Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs, with their almost 1700 yards rushing, 4 YpC and 18 rushing TDs in the regular season alone, you're crazy...

Yeah, lets run the ball all day and go 8-8 like Denver. Wonderful.

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:04 PM
And Tim Tebow took them to round 2 because the Steelers sold out to stop the run...

No, Tim Tebow took them to round two because we played the don't blitz defense we'll just assume Tebow will bow to LeBeau's greatness and make his own mistakes.

And what sucks? I PREDICTED IT, the week before we even played here.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 11:05 PM
Yeah, lets run the ball all day and go 8-8 like Denver. Wonderful.

You still aren't getting it...

Again, either unable to comprehend or intentionally not trying to do so...

Why don't the Steelers run the ball all day and go 13-3 like San Fran?

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 11:09 PM
No, Tim Tebow took them to round two because we played the don't blitz defense we'll just assume Tebow will bow to LeBeau's greatness and make his own mistakes.

And what sucks? I PREDICTED IT, the week before we even played here.

The Steelers dared Tebow to beat them with his arm and he did...

How many teams will dare Ben Roethlisberger to beat them with his arm? Not many...

So, you force the issue with an effective running game, not just running the ball on first down and then passing...when the defense adjusts, you kill them with your HoF QB passing the ball...if they don't, you continue to chew them up with the effective ground game until they do...

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:10 PM
You still aren't getting it...

Again, either unable to comprehend or intentionally not trying to do so...

Why don't the Steelers run the ball all day and go 13-3 like San Fran?

Because we won't play the style of defense that forces 37 turnovers.

Btw, the 49ers loved that style so much that they tried to sign Peyton Manning and send Alex Smith on his way.

When that didn't work? They are trying to help Smith by adding Mario Manningham and Randy Moss, to go along with Michael Crabtree.

Seems to me the 49ers realize that you need to throw the ball in order to win championships.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 11:15 PM
Because we won't play the style of defense that forces 37 turnovers.

Btw, the 49ers loved that style so much that they tried to sign Peyton Manning and send Alex Smith on his way.

When that didn't work? They are trying to help Smith by adding Mario Manningham and Randy Moss, to go along with Michael Crabtree.

Seems to me the 49ers realize that you need to throw the ball in order to win championships.

Please...we all know that, historically, the 15 turnovers is an abberation...hell, in 2010, they forced 35 turnovers...same defense...

We'll see if the 49ers pass 60% of the time this year...I'm willing to bet that they won't...

Nobody is arguing that teams don't need to throw the ball to win championships...I'm arguing that the Steelers don't need to throw 60% of the time to win championships...

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:37 PM
Please...we all know that, historically, the 15 turnovers is an abberation...hell, in 2010, they forced 35 turnovers...same defense

In 2009 the Steelers defense went 14 games, without an interception from a corner-back, and they forced 23 turnovers, less than two a game for the year.

Says here the 2010 season, was the abberation.


Nobody is arguing that teams don't need to throw the ball to win championships...I'm arguing that the Steelers don't need to throw 60% of the time to win championships...

If they don't throw the ball between 55% and 59%? They won't win the AFC in this era of Roger Goodell football.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 11:47 PM
And in 2008, the Steelers defense forced 32 TOs...

2007, 36 TOs...

2006, 35...

2005, 36...

As far as throwing the ball 59% and winning the division, I guess we'll have to see...

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:50 PM
Yeah, we will. The game is phasing out contact, defenses, and yet you want to limit the offense with caveman football.

Brilliant!

Chadman
06-13-2012, 11:58 PM
Geez...debating statistics is always the perfect way to make an argument.

Here's one for you- the Giants won the SB. They ran, on average, 27.2 times a game in the regular season. The Steelers ran the ball 24.9 times a game. Does that mean the Steelers need to run it more to win the Super Bowl? The Giants also threw 60 20+ yard completions while the Steelers only threw 34. Does that mean the Steelers need to go deep more often?

The Giants completed 61.3% of their passes while the Steelers completed 54.5%...does that mean we need to throw shorter routes more often in order to control the ball more?

Stats and percentages are what you want them to be. Forget your 55%-59% rubbish. The Steelers need better run blocking, better pass protection, a well devised scheme that keeps the ball in our hands longer & a defense that makes more negative plays for the opposition- Interceptions, Sacks & TFL. All the stats & percentages you want will fit into those catagories somewhere. If they do those things, they'll play better. If they play better, they are a greater chance of winning a SB.

However, if Tomlin shaves .43 inches of his beard, scratches his head 13% more often & let's Haley concoct 47.74% more variations of the long pass, while LeBeau rushes the passer 17.98% more often & only sends Troy after the QB on 33.64% of the plays, Chadman is sure something will happen. Chadman will let the stat guru's work out the results.

RuthlessBurgher
06-14-2012, 02:05 PM
This thread is about KEITH BUTLER!!!

But you can't tell that anymore, because a certain poster "Crashed" party several pages ago.

The same lame arguments were also made over and over again in the thread about LEONARD POPE (but of course, they had nothing to do with Pope, just like nothing for the last several pages of this thread has anything whatsoever to do with Keith Butler).

Spamming is not just advertisers posting unsolicited links. Spamming is also hijacking every thread with the same garbage over and over and over again.

Enough. The last time this happened during the Ben-Georgia situation when every thread turned into a Crash-a-thon, so we had to start moving threads to another forum so that it didn't litter up the Steeler forum for those of us who want to discuss our team in a grown-up manner instead turning each individual discussion into the same tired debate.

Frankly, it's not worth the trouble for the Mods to have to fundamentally alter our board (like we did a few years ago) to accommodate for the presence of one person, so we are not going to do it again. We are simply going to ask that it stop. Now.

This is a formal warning. If this continues on over the next several days, changes will have to be made, and removing someone from the board (again) may be the easiest solution to this nonsense. That is not the path that we'd prefer to have to take, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility at this point. The ball is in your court now...stop pushing the same agenda in thread after thread after thread. Everyone is tired of it. Thanks.

Slapstick
06-14-2012, 02:59 PM
So...how 'bout that Keith Butler?

feltdizz
06-14-2012, 03:08 PM
So...how 'bout that Keith Butler?

who? can he play center.. errr, uhhh....whoops, FB?

Crash
06-14-2012, 04:06 PM
This thread is about KEITH BUTLER!!!

But you can't tell that anymore, because a certain poster "Crashed" party several pages ago.

Yep, that would be ike on page one, while I was discussing Butler per the thread, he mentions Arians in a reply to me.

Good day.

Crash
06-14-2012, 04:41 PM
Atta boy Coaches! Well done!


Ken Laird ‏ @ Ken_Laird With James Farrior gone, the # Steelers D has had Lawrence Timmons calling out the defensive plays this week in the huddle pre-snap

Slapstick
06-14-2012, 04:48 PM
Atta boy Coaches! Well done!


Ken Laird ‏ @ Ken_Laird With James Farrior gone, the # Steelers D has had Lawrence Timmons calling out the defensive plays this week in the huddle pre-snap


Good to know...

Crash
06-14-2012, 04:53 PM
Yep. Have Timmons call signals and have Foote as the backup to Johnson or Sylvester.

Slapstick
06-14-2012, 04:58 PM
Or Spence?

Could Timmons be working at the Buck?

Crash
06-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Hope so. That's a play makers position. He's better suited for it than Foote.

hawaiiansteel
06-15-2012, 04:02 AM
Hope so. That's a play makers position. He's better suited for it than Foote.


I realize that Foote understands the defense and is a leader, I just worry that he's too slow to play the position and be any type of a playmaker...

Slapstick
06-15-2012, 08:45 AM
If Spence can play, let Foote back up both positions...

steelz09
06-15-2012, 09:31 AM
This thread is about KEITH BUTLER!!!




Thank you. We all have a tendency to get off topic.. that's how threads sometimes work. However, please create a new topic if you want to talk about "who" should play "what" LB position. I like the discussion. It's great and keeps the board active. There has been a lot of interesting perspectives regardless of whether I or anyone else agree with someone else's opinion. That's what a forum is all about. I'm not asking for anyone to change their opinion or perspective on a certain player, coach, contract, etc. I'm simply asking not to high jack threads w/ arguments that have nothing to do w/ the topic at hand. If you have an opinion you want to voice, then create a new thread or leverage an existing thread that already pertains to this topic.

Thanks again.

-John

flippy
06-15-2012, 09:32 AM
Or Spence?

Could Timmons be working at the Buck?

There it is. Spence has so much more potential to be an impact player. Even though he was a 3rd rounder, he was the type of college player that I think it ready to come in and make a contribution immediately.