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hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 06:41 PM
Ben Roethlisberger Still Sounds Irritated About Learning a New Offense

May 31, 2012 by Eric Schmoldt

Ben Roethlisberger never sounded all that happy about the fact that his Pittsburgh Steelers were going to switch their offensive scheme under former Arizona Cardinals coach Todd Haley. And Roethlisberger is still sounding a bit irritated about his new offensive coordinator this summer.

Roethlisberger spends the following interview explaining how the Steelers are coming along when it comes to learning the new offense, but also dips into realms where he tells the fans they got their wish in wanting a more run-oriented offense and that he might revert back to his rookie year where he picked out one receiver and then bolted when they weren’t open.

Ben Roethlisberger joined 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh with Joe Starkey to discuss the new offense, not being comfortable with the change, meeting Todd Haley, the relationship with Haley, a run-oriented offense, if he’ll change his style of play to avoid hits and if he’ll still be allowed to make something out of nothing.

On the new offense:

“It’s starting to come together in pieces. When Coach calls a play, it’s not quite, ‘What’s everybody doing?’ It’s starting to come together and people are understanding and now we can start talking about the little nuances of what people are supposed to do.”

It seems clear from public comments that this change wasn’t comfortable to you. Is that accurate?:

“Absolutely. It’s different. It’s change. And I’m not saying that change is bad, but because it’s different and it’s something that you’re not comfortable and used to doing, you’re not going to be comfortable, obviously. But you’ve got to take the bull by the horns, as they say, and try and run with it.”

What was your first meeting with Todd Haley like?:

“You know what, it was so long ago, I don’t even remember anymore. But that got blown way out of proportion. There’s so many rules that we can’t talk and he was moving. There was so much going on that people decided to make a big deal out of, really, nothing.”

What’s your relationship like with him?:

“It’s just like this offense is a work in progress, so is learning the offense and learning each other. He’s learning me and I’m learning him just as much as he’s learning the rest of the players. So, we’re just taking every day one day at a time.”

But clearly you were comfortable with the way things were, right?:

“Well, absolutely. You do it for long enough, you get comfortable with anything.” So you weren’t necessarily in favor of the change, but you just have to jump on board?: “Yeah, absolutely. You have no choice. And we’re coming along and every day is getting a little bit better and we’re learning and we'll be running the ball a lot this year, so fans should be happy.”

Will you be running it a lot?:

“I think so. … That’s the way it seems. We’ve got some good ball carriers. I know [Isaac Redman] is excited for the opportunity and I know the fans want it, so it looks like they’ll be getting their wish.”

Does not taking as many hits require a change in your style of play?:

“No, I’m just going to play the game the way I know how to play. If injuries happen, they happen. I’m not going to go out and be scared and not play the game full tilt and with everything I’ve got.”

You’ve always been able to make something out of nothing. Is that still part of the gameplan?:

“You might see more of it because I don’t know what everybody’s doing on every play. So it may be like my rookie year where I find one guy and if he’s not open, I start scrambling. We’ll see.”

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/201...se-todd-haley/ (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/05/31/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-ben-roethlisberger-new-offense-todd-haley/)

DukieBoy
05-31-2012, 07:11 PM
We'll be winning alot more so the fans should be happy. I'd rather hear that.

I'd like to see Ben mature into the kind of QB such as who he idolized, John Elway, when the Broncos won their two superbowls. Broncos had an effective blend of run/pass, and Elway threw 22 times and 29 times in those two superbowls. The Broncos ran the ball with commitment and ran it well throughout both seasons and in both SB games. Sure, the game has changed since then, but this Steelers team is capable of more effective mix of the run, and it could contribute to a more effective scoring offense.

Crash
05-31-2012, 07:16 PM
We'll be winning alot more so the fans should be happy. I'd rather hear that.

I'd like to see Ben mature into the kind of QB such as who he idolized, John Elway

Hahahahaha.....you mean the guy who threatened to retire if Dan Reeves wasn't fired?

Then sat back as Pat Bowlen hired Elway hand picked confidants left and right?

I wish they would run Denver's offense and treat Ben like Bowlen treated Elway too. Ben would dominate.

Flasteel
05-31-2012, 07:31 PM
I'm a huge Ben Roethlisberger fan, but he continues to irritate me with his snide little comments. The more I hear from him, the more I want him to just shut up.

Crash
05-31-2012, 07:32 PM
Much to do about nothing when you hear the comments.

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 07:47 PM
Roethlisberger Says Offense Will Run More In 2012 So Fans Should Be Happy

Thursday, May 31st, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger once again had a microphone in his face on Wednesday after the team wrapped up their second practice of their second off-season OTA session, and once again he made a few comments that will be interpreted by many as a shot at both his new offensive coordinator Todd Haley as well as the fan base.

Roethlisberger was asked by Joe Starkey if it was just a matter of getting on-board now with Haley after he obviously didn't like the change of coordinators this past off-season to which the Steelers quarterback replied, "Yeah, absolutely. You have no choice and like I said we're coming along and everyday it's getting a little bit better and we're learning and we'll be running the ball a lot this year, so fans should be happy." Starkey reconfirmed what he just heard by asking Roethlisberger if indeed the Steelers will be running a lot this season and if that was the plan. "I think so", said Roethlisberger. He also added, "That's the way it seems. So we've got some good ball carriers and I know Red (Isaac Redman) is excited for the opportunity and I know the fans want it, so it looks like they'll be getting their wish."

In the same interview Roethlisberger continued to say what he has in past interviews and that learning the new offense is uncomfortable as it includes change, not that change is bad though. He also said that he and Haley are still learning each other as well as the offense. All of that is to be expected this early on in the process.

Now were some of the remarks that Roethlisberger made warranted? Was this just yet another case of Ben being Ben? It is obvious that Roethlisberger reads the papers and listens to talk radio, but not all of the fan base wants to run 40 times a game. Most realize that the NFL is now a passing league and that you don't need to lead the league in rushing to win or compete for a Super Bowl. The Steelers, Green Bay Packers, Arizona Cardinals and the Indianapolis Colts are all prime recent examples of that. When a team does run though, they need to be as effective as possible and there also must be some degree of balance of run versus pass as well.

Now obviously the offense will have a few new pieces on it this year, most recognizably on the offensive line, where there is a chance that two rookies could start and veteran Willie Colon makes the transition from right tackle to left guard. With a new offense being implemented, it will not be out of the question to see the Steelers start the season initially as a run first team as everybody gets acclimated to the Haley offense. After the first few games I doubt you will be able to decipher if the offense is run first or pass first offense. At least I believe that is what the goal of Haley is.

Is Roethlisberger still a little frustrated right now? I think so. Did he just purposefully give Starkey a sound bite that he knew would make waves and have bloggers such as myself writing about it? I think so. Is the nature and tone of the Wednesday interview anything that we haven't seen before from Roethlisberger? Absolutely not. This is just another case of Ben being Ben. It is his little defense mechanism of sorts. It is the way that he motivates himself in my opinion. As long as he executes as he has in the past and is only in the papers because of things he says and not things that he does off the field, I am perfectly fine. This is not the first time we have seen a quarterback in Pittsburgh have a "me against the fans" type attitude and it won't be the last one.

We have a long way to go before the start of the 2012 season, so you better prepare yourself for more interviews like the one Roethlisberger gave on Wednesday. It's just Ben being Ben. Accept it and move on.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/roethlisberger_says_offense_will_run_more_in_2012_ so_fans_should_be_happy/10911539

Eddie Spaghetti
05-31-2012, 07:51 PM
Much to do about nothing when you hear the comments.

yeah buddy, keep rowing that boat.

the guy is a freaking meathead, plain and simple.

i love the way he plays the game of football, but thats where my respect ends.

Crash
05-31-2012, 07:55 PM
yeah buddy, keep rowing that boat.

the guy is a freaking meathead, plain and simple.

i love the way he plays the game of football, but thats where my respect ends.

I'm sure he's heartbroken.

Eddie Spaghetti
05-31-2012, 07:58 PM
but he cares about you, right?

you're a trip man, i have to give you that.

Crash
05-31-2012, 08:02 PM
but he cares about you, right?

you're a trip man, i have to give you that.

I don't concern myself with it. It's amazing to me how this fan base wept for 20 years for the next Bradshaw, and then once they get him (and the success that goes with it) ever since he got here anything Ben does on the field or says off of it isn't good enough or gets twisted.

Just once, I'd like Ben to do an entire interview with just yes or no 1 word answers. Then maybe the media will quit trying to fish for angles that aren't even there.

pittpete
05-31-2012, 08:02 PM
“You might see more of it because I don’t know what everybody’s doing on every play. So it may be like my rookie year where I find one guy and if he’s not open, I start scrambling. We’ll see.”

Wow, before training camp,before a single scrimmage,real game or live snap...
D-R-A-M-A Q-U-E-E-N

Crash
05-31-2012, 08:04 PM
Wow, before training camp,before a single scrimmage,real game or live snap...
D-R-A-M-A Q-U-E-E-N

Mind games.

Eddie Spaghetti
05-31-2012, 08:08 PM
it's the medias fault. yeah, thats it, im sure.

moving the goalposts is straight from the crash playbook.

why can't you own up to the fact that your boy is a dumba$$? i already said that I love the way he plays the game and will celebrate it for years, but everything else about the guy screams douchebag.

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 08:08 PM
“You might see more of it because I don’t know what everybody’s doing on every play. So it may be like my rookie year where I find one guy and if he’s not open, I start scrambling. We’ll see.”


Ben acts like he's the first NFL QB who has ever had to deal with a new incoming OC...

Crash
05-31-2012, 08:12 PM
Ben acts like he's the first NFL QB who has ever had to deal with a new incoming OC...

He's dealt with it twice already. And he's won Super Bowls with BOTH.

He's not going to tip his hand as to how much progress he's actually making. He never does.

flippy
05-31-2012, 08:13 PM
“You might see more of it because I don’t know what everybody’s doing on every play. So it may be like my rookie year where I find one guy and if he’s not open, I start scrambling. We’ll see.”


Ben acts like he's the first NFL QB who has ever had to deal with a new incoming OC...


It's like he trying to make himself heroic when he has success. He's trying too hard to make people think he's greater than he is. It's like he's more insecure than Hines ever was.

That's fine. It seems to work. He seems to play better when he creates these obstacle he must overcome. It's like a Jedi mind trick he plays on himself.

Crash
05-31-2012, 08:17 PM
It's like he trying to make himself heroic when he has success.

Excuse me? That would be what you're boy Kordell did. It sure as hell has never been Ben. Ben has ALWAYS spread the praise around when they win, and taken the brunt of the criticism when they come up short regardless of what happens in a game.

Crash
05-31-2012, 08:28 PM
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbspittsburgh.files.word press.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fben-roethlisberger-5-30.mp3&podcast_name=Ben+Roethlisberger&podcast_a

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 08:32 PM
it's the medias fault. yeah, thats it, im sure.

moving the goalposts is straight from the crash playbook.

why can't you own up to the fact that your boy is a dumba$$? i already said that I love the way he plays the game and will celebrate it for years, but everything else about the guy screams douchebag.Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, Roger Clemens, Moss, etc...a lot of great athletes are douchebags...

Eddie Spaghetti
05-31-2012, 08:48 PM
Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, Roger Clemens, Moss, etc...a lot of great athletes are douchebags...

thanks for the tip.

pretty sure we are talking about the steelers and ben roethlisberger.

try and keep up.

costanza2k1
05-31-2012, 09:30 PM
I love Ben and realize he's the best QB we've had in decades. I understand we are watching a legendary player, but geez Ben quit crying about stuff all the time. He comes off like Hines a lot. For each time he takes the blame for someone else's mistake he follows up with crybaby crap. You're a $100 mill QB. Suck it up. I understand change is frustrating but don't play it up with the media, they hate you already based on your success and all you're doing is feeding them ammo.

fordfixer
05-31-2012, 09:33 PM
I love Ben and realize he's the best QB we've had in decades. I understand we are watching a legendary player, but geez Ben quit crying about stuff all the time. He comes off like Hines a lot. For each time he takes the blame for someone else's mistake he follows up with crybaby crap. You're a $100 mill QB. Suck it up. I understand change is frustrating but don't play it up with the media, they hate you already based on your success and all you're doing is feeding them ammo.

Now you went and did it:D

flippy
05-31-2012, 09:44 PM
Excuse me? That would be what you're boy Kordell did. It sure as hell has never been Ben. Ben has ALWAYS spread the praise around when they win, and taken the brunt of the criticism when they come up short regardless of what happens in a game.


[/COLOR]

We know every detail about every hang nail and paper cut Ben's ever had.

Some players never mention an injury. Ben mentions them all so we're even more impressed by his success.

He's a drama queen off the field and in the media. He's probably the toughest SOB to ever play the game on the field.

SteelCrazy
05-31-2012, 10:01 PM
Ben is a perfect human being. He has never made a mistake and he never will. Everyone here needs to jump aboard for the perfect ride. Ahhhh...Can you feel that perfect wind in your hair?

Crash
05-31-2012, 10:22 PM
We know every detail about every hang nail and paper cut Ben's ever had.

Some players never mention an injury. Ben mentions them all so we're even more impressed by his success.

He's a drama queen off the field and in the media. He's probably the toughest SOB to ever play the game on the field.

I think he's honest. Honest to a fault. If he didn't give the media anything they'd rip him for that too.

Listen to the interview, don't READ IT.

Much to do about nothing, minus Starkey's attempts to stir the pot.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 11:45 PM
thanks for the tip.

pretty sure we are talking about the steelers and ben roethlisberger.

try and keep up.

Why do you have to be a douchebag?

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 11:49 PM
I think he's honest. Honest to a fault. If he didn't give the media anything they'd rip him for that too.

Listen to the interview, don't READ IT.

Much to do about nothing, minus Starkey's attempts to stir the pot.

Honest to a fault? More like dramatic to a fault. Dude is tough as nails but most guys like that aren't quick to give up info on injuries.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:54 PM
Honest to a fault? More like dramatic to a fault. Dude is tough as nails but most guys like that aren't quick to give up info on injuries.

When he's wearing a Frankenstein boot on his foot it's kind of hard to hide injuries, no?

Cowher denied that he had broken toes, and then said "it's nothing that rest can't fix".

Well if he's not hurt, what does it matter how much rest he gets?

Everyone saw the spear he took in the AFC title game with the Ravens, and the fact he went down to the tunnel, it was Florio who reported that he had X-rays prior to the Super Bowl.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-01-2012, 12:24 AM
I've been critical of Ben at times, but I have to agree with Crash about this one...listen to the interview. Ben was answering the questions honestly, but to me, he didn't sound like he was complaining. I agree, much ado about nothing.

It's the end of May...not much real news. Guess these writers have to try to sell newspapers...

Crash
06-01-2012, 12:26 AM
By the way, in three Super Bowls with 2 different OCs in the Ben Era? The Steelers have run nine first down plays in the red zone:

7 runs 2 passes.

1 TD in 7 tries running.

1 TD in 2 tries passing.

By all means, let's keep running it.

Steelerphile
06-01-2012, 05:10 AM
Ben doesn't really like to study apparently. He's not the book-cracking type and is probably the reason why it took him 10 years to graduate with a cake major. He's a great athlete. He's probably got more ability than Peyton Manning, but if he had that type of mental approach, he could probably become a legendary QB. I mean even more so than he is now, since he is somewhat legendary. But even if he is not intensively negative about the new offense, it sets a bad example for the leader of the offense to say it is hard to learn, and he won't be able to learn it all by the time season starts.

Eich
06-01-2012, 08:22 AM
Wow, before training camp,before a single scrimmage,real game or live snap...
D-R-A-M-A Q-U-E-E-N

Mind games.




He's dealt with it twice already. And he's won Super Bowls with BOTH.
He's not going to tip his hand as to how much progress he's actually making. He never does.


By the way, in three Super Bowls with 2 different OCs in the Ben Era? The Steelers have run nine first down plays in the red zone:

7 runs 2 passes.

1 TD in 7 tries running.

1 TD in 2 tries passing.

By all means, let's keep running it.

But wait... I thought Ben was playing "mind games" and trying not to "tip his hand"? So, maybe we're actually going to PASS more.

If ever there was one thing for sure, it's that you'll say anything to defend Ben and anything to crucify Hines. You're more predictable than Bruce Arians.

MeetJoeGreene
06-01-2012, 08:22 AM
I've been critical of Ben at times, but I have to agree with Crash about this one...listen to the interview. Ben was answering the questions honestly, but to me, he didn't sound like he was complaining. I agree, much ado about nothing.

It's the end of May...not much real news. Guess these writers have to try to sell newspapers...

I feel the same way. comes across differently in listening vs. sterile reading.

Eich
06-01-2012, 08:27 AM
I feel the same way. comes across differently in listening vs. sterile reading.

But why the need to say, "So fans should be happy" ? Not every fan wants to run the ball more. More effectively? Yes. MORE, no. Quality, not quantity.

feltdizz
06-01-2012, 09:01 AM
But why the need to say, "So fans should be happy" ? Not every fan wants to run the ball more. More effectively? Yes. MORE, no. Quality, not quantity.

exactly... why make that dig?

Sugar
06-01-2012, 09:39 AM
Just once, I'd like Ben to do an entire interview with just yes or no 1 word answers. Then maybe the media will quit trying to fish for angles that aren't even there.

If he did that, then everyone would complain that he's being truculent with the press and that he's a jackwagon. He can't win for losing.

I saw nothing that he said here as problematic. Especially since we're in May/June. He's trying to learn and he says he's taking the bull by the horns. He give the worst case and that is that if he doesn't know the plays it would be like his rookie year, and that wasn't such a bad thing.

What, exactly, is the problem here?

Oviedo
06-01-2012, 10:41 AM
It's too early for anyone to speculate what Haley will do but I do have a very high confidence he will do what is working best versus being fixated on a specific template like Arians was and LeBeau has always been.

Eich
06-01-2012, 10:47 AM
If he did that, then everyone would complain that he's being truculent with the press and that he's a jackwagon. He can't win for losing.

I saw nothing that he said here as problematic. Especially since we're in May/June. He's trying to learn and he says he's taking the bull by the horns. He give the worst case and that is that if he doesn't know the plays it would be like his rookie year, and that wasn't such a bad thing.

What, exactly, is the problem here?


"We'll Be Running The Ball A Lot More, So Fans Should Be Happy"
Our franchise QB, who likes and wants to pass, says that and it's not sarcastic at all, not a dig of any kind?

Sugar
06-01-2012, 10:52 AM
"We'll Be Running The Ball A Lot More, So Fans Should Be Happy"
Our franchise QB, who likes and wants to pass, says that and it's not sarcastic at all, not a dig of any kind?


Like I said, what's the problem here? I know it's only the start of June and people want Steelers news, but jeez people... :roll:

Crash
06-01-2012, 11:17 AM
But wait... I thought Ben was playing "mind games" and trying not to "tip his hand"? So, maybe we're actually going to PASS more.

If ever there was one thing for sure, it's that you'll say anything to defend Ben and anything to crucify Hines. You're more predictable than Bruce Arians.

The point is, and always was, that fans, and ownership want a commitment to the run game. My facts prove, that forcing the run game because Franco and Jerome did it, does not work.

Hines is a hypocrite. He calls Ben's suspension justified, claims he did not put himself in risky situations off the field. Which is 100% absolute BS.

grotonsteel
06-01-2012, 11:19 AM
But why the need to say, "So fans should be happy" ? Not every fan wants to run the ball more. More effectively? Yes. MORE, no. Quality, not quantity.

I guess you are in minority.

Steelers Nation love their running game even if its not working and bitch about their QB/Offense. They were nasty to TB and doing the same to Ben.

grotonsteel
06-01-2012, 11:21 AM
It's too early for anyone to speculate what Haley will do but I do have a very high confidence he will do what is working best versus being fixated on a specific template like Arians was and LeBeau has always been.


Ovi i hope you are right. I hope Todd Haley design offense to take advantage of todays NFL rules.

But i got a feeling its going to be Run-Run-Pass Marty Ball. AFC North 3rd place here we come.

steelz09
06-01-2012, 12:02 PM
I love Ben and realize he's the best QB we've had in decades. I understand we are watching a legendary player, but geez Ben quit crying about stuff all the time. He comes off like Hines a lot. For each time he takes the blame for someone else's mistake he follows up with crybaby crap. You're a $100 mill QB. Suck it up. I understand change is frustrating but don't play it up with the media, they hate you already based on your success and all you're doing is feeding them ammo.

:Bow

Completely agree. He is supposed to be the leader of this team. I think it's time for him to get over it, move on, learn the playbook and be supportive of the change. His whining isn't going to change anything and it sets a bad example for the younger guys.

Crash
06-01-2012, 12:04 PM
:Bow

Completely agree. He is supposed to be the leader of this team. I think it's time for him to get over it, move on, learn the playbook and be supportive of the change. His whining isn't going to change anything and it sets a bad example for the younger guys.

LISTEN to the interview.

Crash
06-01-2012, 12:22 PM
Our franchise QB, who likes and wants to pass, says that and it's not sarcastic at all, not a dig of any kind?Our franchise QB, who likes and wants to pass, says that and it's not sarcastic at all, not a dig of any kind?


Can you name ANY franchise QB who DOES NOT want or like to throw the football?

Mister Pittsburgh
06-01-2012, 12:23 PM
What was your first meeting with Todd Haley like?:

“You know what, it was so long ago, I don’t even remember anymore. But that got blown way out of proportion. There’s so many rules that we can’t talk and he was moving. There was so much going on that people decided to make a big deal out of, really, nothing.”

Ben is the one that was crying that he hadn't met with Haley yet. And where is he getting the information the 'fans' want to run the ball more? Ben is a toolbag. He doesn't want to run a pitch and catch offense like the Pats so he will yammer, even though the best offensive output we had last year was the two games we deployed this offensive strategy. I hope Haley puts him in his place.

Crash
06-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Um, no. Ben just said Haley was busy and they hadn't spoken yet. Ben also made it a point to mention that they couldn't talk football because of the CBA.

The post gazette, were the ones who were trying to fuel this "issue" from the start.

Yeah, the golf coach is going to put the HOF QB in his place....LOL

Sugar
06-01-2012, 12:32 PM
Um, no. Ben just said Haley was busy and they hadn't spoken yet. Ben also made it a point to mention that they couldn't talk football because of the CBA.

The post gazette, were the ones who were trying to fuel this "issue" from the start.

Yeah, the golf coach is going to put the HOF QB in his place....LOL

Agreed. People are making so much out of nothing here. There really doesn't seem to be anything here. You take some quotes, mix in some commentary by the writer and there's your story. Most of it is really about the writers interpretation of what Ben says than what Ben actually says. When you actually see/hear the interviews, they unremarkable insofar as any big news goes.

Mister Pittsburgh
06-01-2012, 12:32 PM
Um, no. Ben just said Haley was busy and they hadn't spoken yet. Ben also made it a point to mention that they couldn't talk football because of the CBA.

The post gazette, were the ones who were trying to fuel this "issue" from the start.

Yeah, the golf coach is going to put the HOF QB in his place....LOL

hahaha....the golf coach....yeah...i am sure Tomlin brought him here to teach him a chip shot. Either Tomlin or Rooney felt Ben and Bruce were too chummy and broke up the party. I doubt they brought Haley here to wear kid gloves and not have his back.

Ghost
06-01-2012, 12:32 PM
I guess you are in minority.

Steelers Nation love their running game even if its not working and bitch about their QB/Offense. They were nasty to TB and doing the same to Ben.

I'm not so sure about this. I think it's one of those things that the national media continues to say so it's a self-perpetuating myth. I think most fans are sick of the abysmal red zone scoring and not being able to run it in from inside the 5. By the end of last year I was praying they'd score on long plays to not have to watch the misery of needing just a few yards for a TD.

If Haley is the least bit creative, not predictable, and scores, you'll never hear a word about whether or not they need to return to a traditional running game. I'm excited and I honestly believe he brings hope that we'll see this O use it's many talents.

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 12:34 PM
The point is, and always was, that fans, and ownership want a commitment to the run game. My facts prove, that forcing the run game because Franco and Jerome did it, does not work.


Facts?!?

You have posted no facts that support your argument...you have posted 1st down data that, in a vacuum, would support your argument...the fact is that you ignore 2nd and 3rd down data that does not support your argument...

All you've offered is cherry picked data and a whole lot of conjecture...

Oviedo
06-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Ovi i hope you are right. I hope Todd Haley design offense to take advantage of todays NFL rules.

But i got a feeling its going to be Run-Run-Pass Marty Ball. AFC North 3rd place here we come.

I really doubt that because everyone involved should be able to see we don't have that kind of talent at RB.

I think we will see an offense that exploits what the opponents weaknesses are and what is working. I really DO NOT think we will see a vertical mindset like Arians had. Short and mid-range passes will be more the norm which ultimately will play to Ben's strengths even if it take awhile for him to see that.

Mister Pittsburgh
06-01-2012, 12:41 PM
I really doubt that because everyone involved should be able to see we don't have that kind of talent at RB.

I think we will see an offense that exploits what the opponents weaknesses are and what is working. I really DO NOT think we will see a vertical mindset like Arians had. Short and mid-range passes will be more the norm which ultimately will play to Ben's strengths even if it take awhile for him to see that.

Wait, wait, wait.....you mean we will actually GAMEPLAN for each team? Maybe even adjust if said gameplan is not working MID GAME?......I didn't know that was allowed.

Shawn
06-01-2012, 12:41 PM
I don't concern myself with it. It's amazing to me how this fan base wept for 20 years for the next Bradshaw, and then once they get him (and the success that goes with it) ever since he got here anything Ben does on the field or says off of it isn't good enough or gets twisted.

Just once, I'd like Ben to do an entire interview with just yes or no 1 word answers. Then maybe the media will quit trying to fish for angles that aren't even there.

I like Ben as much as anyone as a player. But, it's clear from his comments he isn't happy about the changes. He has been verbal about being unhappy with the changes. And many of us including myself want him to keep his yap shut. It's really that simple.

feltdizz
06-01-2012, 12:56 PM
If he did that, then everyone would complain that he's being truculent with the press and that he's a jackwagon. He can't win for losing.

I saw nothing that he said here as problematic. Especially since we're in May/June. He's trying to learn and he says he's taking the bull by the horns. He give the worst case and that is that if he doesn't know the plays it would be like his rookie year, and that wasn't such a bad thing.

What, exactly, is the problem here?

That's like telling your wife the reason you never bring her flowers or candy is because she wouldn't appreciate it. Ben has nothing to lose by saying something positive about Haley or being professional in an interview.

Crash
06-01-2012, 12:57 PM
hahaha....the golf coach....yeah...i am sure Tomlin brought him here to teach him a chip shot. Either Tomlin or Rooney felt Ben and Bruce were too chummy and broke up the party. I doubt they brought Haley here to wear kid gloves and not have his back.

They fired Arians be because LeBeau is off limits. Only on Pittsburgh can a defense give up 316 yards to a joke like Tim Tebow and 90 yards to a joke like Joe Flacco only to see the OFFENSE get scrapped.

They both should have been fired.

Crash
06-01-2012, 12:59 PM
Facts?!?

You have posted no facts that support your argument...you have posted 1st down data that, in a vacuum, would support your argument...the fact is that you ignore 2nd and 3rd down data that does not support your argument...

All you've offered is cherry picked data and a whole lot of conjecture...

24 red zone plays in three Super Bowls.

8 passes.

Why pay him? Either the offensive mindset has to change, or the QB's role in the offense does.

You decide.

steelz09
06-01-2012, 01:45 PM
If Ben really thinks the Steelers fans want to go back to a running offense especially w/ our weapons then he must be dumber than I thought.

I think fans do want a bit more quick passes and an unpredictable play calling strategy that leverages our playmakers. Has it ever occurred to Ben that the reason the fans want quicker passes and runs is so he is healthy towards the end of the year?!?! All fans know we have no chance at a SB without a healthy Ben. If he continues with the same old Ben, he will be injured again and it will get worse with age.

Crash
06-01-2012, 01:49 PM
If Ben really thinks the Steelers fans want to go back to a running offense especially w/ our weapons then he must be dumber than I thought.

I think fans do want a bit more quick passes and an unpredictable play calling strategy that leverages our playmakers. Has it ever occurred to Ben that the reason the fans want quicker passes and runs is so he is healthy towards the end of the year?!?! All fans know we have no chance at a SB without a healthy Ben. If he continues with the same old Ben, he will be injured again and it will get worse with age.

And the minute they throw the ball 35 times and lose with Haley? People will start bitching about not running enough.

He's absolutely right, there are TONS of Steelers fans, and Steleers media, who OBSESS with running the ball.

Oviedo
06-01-2012, 02:06 PM
And the minute they throw the ball 35 times and lose with Haley? People will start bitching about not running enough.

He's absolutely right, there are TONS of Steelers fans, and Steleers media, who OBSESS with running the ball.

Western Pa HS heroes who think that is what playing "tough guy" football is about. maybe they should take note that four of the Top 5 rushing teams from last year didn't make the play-offs. That's not a coincidence.

feltdizz
06-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Western Pa HS heroes who think that is what playing "tough guy" football is about. maybe they should take note that four of the Top 5 rushing teams from last year didn't make the play-offs. That's not a coincidence.

It's one year...

Next year if 4 of the top 5 rushing teams make the playoff everyone will talk about needing a ground game.

The Ravens were 3 yards from beating the Pats and the 49ers lost on a muffed punt.

..and who won the SB last year? The pass happy team or the team with more balance and traditional play calling?

costanza2k1
06-01-2012, 02:15 PM
And the minute they throw the ball 35 times and lose with Haley? People will start bitching about not running enough.

He's absolutely right, there are TONS of Steelers fans, and Steleers media, who OBSESS with running the ball.

They can continue to obsess about it, we need balance not a 1 trick offense...passing only isn't a solution nor is running...if you're O is going again a defense that only allows 1 yard/game (just an example) then you probably shouldn't try to shove it down their throat. I'm with everyone else I want a healthy Ben at the end of the season so he can get us another ring! He's a diva just as he's expected to be. I didn't like Hines off the field nor do I like him. In fact I can't really say I like anyone off the field since I don't know them personally...I do however LOVE my Steelers!

costanza2k1
06-01-2012, 02:17 PM
It's one year...

Next year if 4 of the top 5 rushing teams make the playoff everyone will talk about needing a ground game.

The Ravens were 3 yards from beating the Pats and the 49ers lost on a muffed punt.

..and who won the SB last year? The pass happy team or the team with more balance and traditional play calling?

In a few years the cycle will change, as more teams acquire cover corners and smaller LBs and smaller DL players to help cover the TEs and WRs someone is going to go old school and pound it down their throats...time will tell

Crash
06-01-2012, 02:20 PM
They can continue to obsess about it, we need balance not a 1 trick offense.

Then what is running the ball on 58% on first down and 65% on first down in the redzone? That's not balance, is it?

But no one complains about that, because it features the beloved running game.

I've said it all off season. You want balance? Start with more balance on first down.

The rest takes care of itself.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-01-2012, 02:45 PM
Then what is running the ball on 58% on first down and 65% on first down in the redzone? That's not balance, is it?

But no one complains about that, because it features the beloved running game.

[/COLOR]

That's Bruce Arians' offense, and I complained about it plenty. I think you'll see some changes under Haley--especially with red-zone calls.

Crash
06-01-2012, 02:47 PM
That's Bruce Arians' offense, and I complained about it plenty. I think you'll see some changes under Haley--especially with red-zone calls.

But that's what ownership wanted though, a commitment to the run game.

He gave it to them.

Crash
06-01-2012, 02:49 PM
It's one year

1992-2001 of Bill Cowher Football.

9 times in 10 seasons: The Steelers had a top 10 rushing team, and NON top 10 passing team.

The ONE YEAR, in 10, that the passing game was IN the top 10, and the running game was not?

1995.

How far did that team go compared to the other nine?

costanza2k1
06-01-2012, 02:54 PM
Then what is running the ball on 58% on first down and 65% on first down in the redzone? That's not balance, is it?

But no one complains about that, because it features the beloved running game.

I've said it all off season. You want balance? Start with more balance on first down.

The rest takes care of itself. [/COLOR]

Agreed...I think it's awesome that we'll be contending for a SB again this year with the team we have yet we can still find flaws...I've come a long way from just hoping a praying Malone could complete a pass lol

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 02:58 PM
But that's what ownership wanted though, a commitment to the run game.

He gave it to them.

No, he didn't...

The Steelers passed 56% of the time last year...that's not a commitment to the run game...

Here is a quote from AR II about Ben "tweaking" his game:


"I don't think we should want or expect a dramatic change in Ben. 'A little bit' is probably the key phrase," said Rooney. "He has been pretty darn successful in a lot of what he does. He's different from other quarterbacks. We don't want or expect dramatic changes in Ben. We need him to be healthy. We need him to continue to be healthy. He is turning 30. Taking fewer sacks, fewer risks here and there is something he needs to think about. But not a dramatic change."

Does that sound like "ramming the run game down our throats"? No...

Eich
06-01-2012, 03:02 PM
But that's what ownership wanted though, a commitment to the run game.

He gave it to them.


NO

Commitment to making the run game more effective doesn't mean run 58% on first down and 65% on first down in the redzone.

Bruce Arians didn't give crap to them. Bruce Arians FAILED and he was asked to leave.

The offense is expected to run more effectively. Having a commitment to THAT is a good thing and is one of the tasks Haley has in front of him.

grotonsteel
06-01-2012, 03:16 PM
..and who won the SB last year? The pass happy team or the team with more balance and traditional play calling?

Giants were ranked 32nd in rushing or maybe 31st in rushing. They were 9-7 in regular season. I am pretty sure that Offense would have sucked in those 7 games they lost in regular season.

Crash
06-01-2012, 03:31 PM
The Giants were ranked last in the NFL in rushing but 5th in passing.

That's not balance. And yet they won the Super Bowl.

They were much more balanced in 2010: 10th in rushing and 6th in passing: They missed the playoffs.

In 2007 when Eli won his first ring? 21st in rushing 4th in passing. Where's the balance?

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 05:33 PM
The Giants were ranked last in the NFL in rushing but 5th in passing.

That's not balance. And yet they won the Super Bowl.

They were much more balanced in 2010: 10th in rushing and 6th in passing: They missed the playoffs.

In 2007 when Eli won his first ring? 21st in rushing 4th in passing. Where's the balance?

People like you who look at stats lack football logic...

Try watching the games...

feltdizz
06-01-2012, 06:16 PM
Giants were ranked 32nd in rushing or maybe 31st in rushing. They were 9-7 in regular season. I am pretty sure that Offense would have sucked in those 7 games they lost in regular season.

Their RB's were injured for the bulk of the regular season.... they didn't rally have a choice. In the playoffs there was more balance outside of the SF game but the 49ers rund D is so good it makes sense to abandon the run in that game.

What's odd is the "expect a lot of no huddle" quote by Ben followed by "tons of runs" a week later. Maybe he is just blowing smoke.

DukieBoy
06-01-2012, 06:20 PM
Game Trax for the Superbowl show Giants with 19 rushes for 78 yards, and 30 of 40 passes for 296 yds.
Patriots are shown with 9 rushes for 39 yards,and 27 of 41 passing for 276 yards.
Both teams were heavier on passing. The team that won had a bit more balance.
Interpret it or weight it as you will. I think the Giants won at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, and it was a huge factor in that game, both in their passing game and running game.

I'd liike to see the Steelers dominate the LOS again on both sides of the ball. Obviously, it will sure benefit both the passing game and the run game.

feltdizz
06-01-2012, 06:36 PM
You have to take the opponent into consideration. Pats were stacking the LOS and were pretty impressive on run D but the Pats pass D was horrible last year. Not sure what the Giants pass D was last year but they were dominating the pass protection in the playoffs.

Crash
06-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Their RB's were injured for the bulk of the regular season

You mean like our offensive line?

Crash
06-01-2012, 06:46 PM
People like you who look at stats lack football logic...

Try watching the games...

I watch plenty of the Giants because I do their games for a friend of mine who's in the service.

Running the ball in 2011 was an afterthought. Eli makes them go.

steelz09
06-01-2012, 08:04 PM
You mean like our offensive line?

Are you trying to indicate that our line was good even when healthy? Our line was bottom of the barrel regardless... especially at the guard position.

Crash
06-01-2012, 08:07 PM
Are you trying to indicate that our line was good even when healthy? Our line was bottom of the barrel regardless... especially at the guard position.

I'm indicating that if one is going to use injuries for the lack of run game for the Giants, one must use the same logic for the Steelers offense as a whole if their opinions are to be taken seriously and not just to protect the pristine image of our defense.

hawaiiansteel
06-01-2012, 08:38 PM
Friday, 01 June 2012 08:28

Written by Ed Bouchette

--- YOU: seems some sports writers (not you) are implying that there is friction between Ben and Haley. It almost seems like they want there to be? Your thoughts?

ME: I don’t know about the writers, but I do know the impression on talk radio is that there is friction. I haven’t seen that, haven’t heard it and have talked to some people who say there is not. However, you cannot blame talk radio or whoever else is writing/speaking/opining about it that they take Ben Roethlisberger’s words as a tip-off that there might be something wrong because they do sound like subtle complaints.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/i...g-good-on-ward (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/i...g-good-on-ward)

NJ-STEELER
06-02-2012, 02:19 AM
I'm not so sure about this. I think it's one of those things that the national media continues to say so it's a self-perpetuating myth. I think most fans are sick of the abysmal red zone scoring and not being able to run it in from inside the 5. By the end of last year I was praying they'd score on long plays to not have to watch the misery of needing just a few yards for a TD.

.

true. and i think the FO has recognized this with Ol being drafted high the last few years.

we definatley ned to be more effective running the ball in the red zone and inside the 10 especially. what year was it when we ran 4 times from the 1 against a small colts defense and couldnt score??

thats not on the back, thats mostly on the OL

NJ-STEELER
06-02-2012, 02:21 AM
I watch plenty of the Giants because I do their games for a friend of mine who's in the service.

Running the ball in 2011 was an afterthought. Eli makes them go.

this

eli had a hell of a year last year. much better then previous years

Crash
06-02-2012, 02:28 AM
Friday, 01 June 2012 08:28

Written by Ed Bouchette

--- YOU: seems some sports writers (not you) are implying that there is friction between Ben and Haley. It almost seems like they want there to be? Your thoughts?

ME: I don’t know about the writers, but I do know the impression on talk radio is that there is friction. I haven’t seen that, haven’t heard it and have talked to some people who say there is not. However, you cannot blame talk radio or whoever else is writing/speaking/opining about it that they take Ben Roethlisberger’s words as a tip-off that there might be something wrong because they do sound like subtle complaints.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/i...g-good-on-ward (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/i...g-good-on-ward)




Um, no Ed, they don't sound like complaints at all.

They are PRINTED in a way that makes it appear as if he's complaining.

flippy
06-02-2012, 06:48 AM
this

eli had a hell of a year last year. much better then previous years


The Giant's D was great in the playoffs.

All these great passing teams making the post season, but the team that really was playing the best D down the stretch wins the SuperBowl.

papillon
06-02-2012, 06:53 AM
Um, no Ed, they don't sound like complaints at all.

They are PRINTED in a way that makes it appear as if he's complaining.

Crash, I know you love you some Ben and I have stated many times that Steeler football has never been this exciting (because of Ben) even with Bradshaw, Swann and Stallworth. However, you're always bemoaning the fact that the Steelers may add a few more runs to the game plan and then proceed to indicate that since Ben is being paid 100 million dollars that the Steelers shouldn't run the ball. In your opinion what is a proper balance for the offense of passes and runs, 60-40, 70-30, 80-20 or somehting different?

If there are 70 offensive plays in a game, then 60-40 would be 42-28; 70-30 would be 49-21; 80-20 would be 56-14, in any of these scenarios why even bother running the ball? Can this style of offense actually be successful where you lean on one facet of the offense that heavily? 60-40 would be the only ration (IMO) that wouldn't make them one dimensional and cause defenses to defend both facets of offense, anything more than that seems to tip your hand to the defense.

Pappy

BradshawsHairdresser
06-02-2012, 10:04 AM
Crash, I know you love you some Ben and I have stated many times that Steeler football has never been this exciting (because of Ben) even with Bradshaw, Swann and Stallworth. However, you're always bemoaning the fact that the Steelers may add a few more runs to the game plan and then proceed to indicate that since Ben is being paid 100 million dollars that the Steelers shouldn't run the ball. In your opinion what is a proper balance for the offense of passes and runs, 60-40, 70-30, 80-20 or somehting different?

If there are 70 offensive plays in a game, then 60-40 would be 42-28; 70-30 would be 49-21; 80-20 would be 56-14, in any of these scenarios why even bother running the ball? Can this style of offense actually be successful where you lean on one facet of the offense that heavily? 60-40 would be the only ration (IMO) that wouldn't make them one dimensional and cause defenses to defend both facets of offense, anything more than that seems to tip your hand to the defense.

PappyI doubt Crash would be happy until Ben was passing the ball on every play. If not, according to him, the Steelers might as well get Trent Dilfer to come out of retirement and play for them.

Yes, I exaggerated a little in those statements...almost as much as Crash exaggerates.

steelz09
06-02-2012, 10:46 AM
I'm indicating that if one is going to use injuries for the lack of run game for the Giants, one must use the same logic for the Steelers offense as a whole if their opinions are to be taken seriously and not just to protect the pristine image of our defense.

ahh, i see.

I still don't know if that comparison will be accurate because a Giants healthy o-line is still > a Steelers healthy o-line.

Crash
06-02-2012, 11:25 AM
It's never been about a certain number. The problem is fans (and media) who long for the 1970s are obsessed with numbers without looking at facts.

Again, show me ONE MEDIA MEMBER who points out that we run the ball 58% on first down, and 65% on 1st down in the red zone?

But God forbid that BA calls three red zone passes, the minute that fails? All you hear is how much they should be running the ball.

You want balance? 1st down better be balanced as well. Start with close to 50-50 there and everything else takes care of itself.

DBR96A
06-02-2012, 11:40 AM
I think a 55/45 pass/run ratio is the sweet spot. If an offense runs 70 plays, then it'd involve 39 passes and 31 runs.

birtikidis
06-02-2012, 11:56 AM
When we get to redone we are screwed bc all of our receivers are deep threats. As soon as ward started to become less effective so did our redzone offense. Add in the fact that our line has been bad for so long, especially against stunts/blitz schemes and our best rz target, Heath miller, has to stay in to pass protect. Bruce Arians was a great coordinator UNTIL he got to the redzone. Fans would have loved him if he could have been more efficient in that regard.

feltdizz
06-02-2012, 11:57 AM
I'm indicating that if one is going to use injuries for the lack of run game for the Giants, one must use the same logic for the Steelers offense as a whole if their opinions are to be taken seriously and not just to protect the pristine image of our defense.

This has nothing to do with the defense...

Not sure what OL injuries do for your argument. They were below average when healthy...
Seems like a healthy and improved OL would encourage the OC to strive for balance and flexibility.

williar
06-02-2012, 12:30 PM
What Ben is really saying is; sucks not being the offensive coordinator anymore. This new guy is really trying to make me learn an NFL offense. No more running around, holding onto the ball and taking sacks for ten yard losses, WTF? Wait til I tell him, I only know how to play one way, coach! It's going to get ugly....

grotonsteel
06-02-2012, 01:09 PM
What Ben is really saying is; sucks not being the offensive coordinator anymore.

Ben was the OC??? Dang i missed the memo.

So Ben was the one kept running the ball in red zone behind porous O-line or did not have no huddle offense which he loves. Ben was the one who said screw 3WR - 4 WRs set in which i do well and go for 2-3 TE sets in which we clearly sucked.

Ben, why would you do that?????

grotonsteel
06-02-2012, 01:11 PM
When we get to redone we are screwed bc all of our receivers are deep threats. As soon as ward started to become less effective so did our redzone offense. Add in the fact that our line has been bad for so long, especially against stunts/blitz schemes and our best rz target, Heath miller, has to stay in to pass protect. Bruce Arians was a great coordinator UNTIL he got to the redzone. Fans would have loved him if he could have been more efficient in that regard.


Good post.

Red Zone Offense was the Achilles heel for Steelers. With new offensive line and more playing time for JC and Raney/Batch hopefully things will improve.

BURGH86STEEL
06-02-2012, 07:33 PM
When we get to redone we are screwed bc all of our receivers are deep threats. As soon as ward started to become less effective so did our redzone offense. Add in the fact that our line has been bad for so long, especially against stunts/blitz schemes and our best rz target, Heath miller, has to stay in to pass protect. Bruce Arians was a great coordinator UNTIL he got to the redzone. Fans would have loved him if he could have been more efficient in that regard.
I am not sure how effective the red zone scoring offense was in the past. I do know they never put up enough points to be a top 5 scoring unit regardless of the OC. I don't believe it had anything to do with the WR's on the team. I believe the scoring problems in the red zone had more to do with the QB then any player or coach. Ben needs to become a better red zone QB for the offense to produce more points.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 03:14 AM
1992-2001 of Bill Cowher Football.

9 times in 10 seasons: The Steelers had a top 10 rushing team, and NON top 10 passing team.

The ONE YEAR, in 10, that the passing game was IN the top 10, and the running game was not?

1995.

How far did that team go compared to the other nine?

We LOST the SB. If THAT is your goal have at it. I'm imto SB victories.
We lived by the pass and DIED by the pass that day.
Cowboys were the better running team they won.
YOUR POINT?

Oh yeah, Cowhers biggest success came when we throw the ball more. REALLY?

The ONLY SB COWHER ACTUALLY WON?
2005. Ben as starter
Rush attempts NUMBER ONE
Pass attempts THIRTY TWO yes DEAD LAST.

Ben had one regular season as an undefeated starter 13-0 team record 15-1 Cowher's best.
2004 Ben was a ROOKIE never had that kind of record again. We beat BOTH SB teams in consecutive weeks (Pats and Eagle) that year.
Rush attempts NUMBER ONE
Pass attempts THIRTY TWO yes DEAD LAST.
We were the best team that year too. Understandable rookie nerves got Ben in the playoffs (3 picks)

I am not saying we need to go back to that but don't tell me we cant win with balance when this team had best consecutive seasons since Bradshaw the very years WE RAN THE MOST with Ben as QB. And this was in years ONE AND TWO. He was a pup.

If we had the ability to run throughout Bens career that he had at the start dude would have FOUR rings already.

You need a QUALITY QB not QUANTITY passing to win.

The reason the high passing teams are winning is because everyone with a good QB is winging it all day long.

Elway Terrel Davis or Aikmen and Emmit will win championships today. Heck Ben has done it before and this team has NEVER been better than it was then.

Crash
06-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Oh yeah, Cowhers biggest success came when we throw the ball more. REALLY?

Um, no, his best success came when we came out throwing:

Ben 2004: 11 of 17 TD passes in the first half.

Ben 2005: 11 of 17 TD passes in the first half.

Ben 2005 post season: 6 of 7 TD passes in the first half.

Pass to get the lead, RUN AFTER we get it.


We LOST the SB. If THAT is your goal have at it. I'm imto SB victories.

Can't lose the Super Bowl if you aren't playing in it.


2004 Ben was a ROOKIE never had that kind of record again. We beat BOTH SB teams in consecutive weeks (Pats and Eagle) that year.

Patriots game 1st quarter:

PLAXICO BURRESS 47 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

PLAXICO BURRESS 4 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

Eagles game 1st half:

HINES WARD 20 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

JAY RIEMERSMA 2 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

Two first halves, 4 TD passes, three of them in the red zone.

See?


Elway Terrel Davis or Aikmen and Emmit will win championships today. Heck Ben has done it before and this team has NEVER been better than it was then.

I wish we would value Ben like the Broncos valued Elway when he won 2 rings.

We don't.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 11:34 AM
Can't lose the Super Bowl if you aren't playing in it.
Yes, but Cowhers greatest success (your topic) including his only SB WIN came when we had the fewest pass attempts in the league. You just conveniently "forget" some of those later years.

Speaking of "later" years. 2006 BCs last season we LEAPED SIXTEEN SPOTS in pass attempts. We go from 379 to 523 pass attempts from one season to the next and failed to make the playoffs that year.

Clearly reading the Steelerlive message boards he "found the light" of your wisdom Crash.


Patriots game 1st quarter:

PLAXICO BURRESS 47 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

PLAXICO BURRESS 4 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

Eagles game 1st half:

HINES WARD 20 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

JAY RIEMERSMA 2 YD PASS FROM BEN ROETHLISBERGER (JEFF REED KICK)

Two first halves, 4 TD passes, three of them in the red zone.

Yes, that is true Crash. We did take early leads and sit on them using our powerful run game. Leads were safe back then Crash, far mor so than recent years. Our powerful run game MADE OUR PLAY ACTION WORK back then. Yes, Ben had an easy time tossing TDs back then when the only way to stop a potential run was to bring a safety up.

Our RUN GAME allowed easy play action passes for Ben. Your own quote of Dungy is PROOF of how it worked. I believe that is in fact is Haleys point. He wants to get back to that.

If you actually LIKED what we did back then you would have no problem with Haleys comments.

But dont now "pretend" that you liked it because it aint true. As I recall you were NEVER a fan of this strategy that you now KEEP bringing up. You derisively called it "the turtle" back in the day.

You were critical of it right down to the day we won the SB.

The Steelers had Bens winningess regular season (2004) and Bens best playoff run (2005) during years when the play action pass worked like a charm because our run game was so feared.


I wish we would value Ben like the Broncos valued Elway.

We don't.

There is only one way to quantify "value" in definable terms. Just ask Wallace. :)

In that context Ben is the most highly "valued" Steeler EVER. Deservedly so.

Ben needs to "value" the run game as much as Elway did and embrace a return to the greatest team success he has ever known.









[/QUOTE]

Crash
06-03-2012, 11:37 AM
Ben needs to "value" the run game as much as Elway did

Elway valued throwing the ball to his hand picked additions and being coached by his hand picked pals in his hand picked offensive system that he ran back in COLLEGE. Elway always had a run game around him, he had THREE DIFFERENT Pro Bowl RBs on his team BEFORE he ever played with Terrell Davis. Elway was HANDCUFFED, by Dan Reeves' dinosaur offense which was 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

Elway's numbers for 10 years were a joke.

Reeves was fired after Elway threatened retirement, Elway was treasured and respected and the offense was catered to him, and he then had the best production of his career in his final 6 seasons and won 2 rings.

While we hand Ben a friggin' golf coach who only got this job because his Daddy worked for this team 40 years ago.

Crash
06-03-2012, 11:44 AM
But dont now "pretend" that you liked it because it aint true. As I recall you were NEVER a fan of this strategy that you now KEEP bringing up. You derisively called it "the turtle" back in the day.

Right, my point was to morons who READ stat sheets, and ASSUME, without WATCHING games, that Ben was "carried" by the run game and was a "game manager".

He's never been a game manager to those who actually WATCH our games.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 12:10 PM
Right, my point was to morons who READ stat sheets, and ASSUME, without WATCHING games, that Ben was "carried" by the run game and was a "game manager".

He's never been a game manager to those who actually WATCH our games.




[/COLOR]

See Crash, THIS is the problem. You see people who want balance as a dis to Ben's ability. Very few here who disagree with you have a problem with Ben's ability. We think balance is better PERIOD. Very few here consider Ben a "game manager". I just dont like hanging EVERYTHING on the QB, regardless of who he is.

Elway was already great. Elway plus a great run game was much better.

Ditto for Ben.

Peyton won his only SB basically playing Cowher football in the playoffs.

I say that a team that has a franchise QB that also features a powerful run game like we might have thanks to our oline upgrades would dominate in todays NFL.

Keyplay1
06-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Crash said: "Just once, I'd like Ben to do an entire interview with just yes or no 1 word answers. Then maybe the media will quit trying to fish for angles that aren't even there."

Exactly. I read and re-read that article several times. Not once did I get a hint of any irritation or dissatisfaction on the new system from Ben. As a matter of fact I got the impression Ben was pleased at the progress being made grasping the new system. He also agreed with the impression some fans have about the running game and again concurred that it would likely be more effective.

However, if anyone is watching any of these very good OTA video reports from steelers.com they may have noticed that in one of the sessions Ben is throwing some huge bombs [60 - 70 yd type monsters to A. Brown and some others]. This is adding fuel to the speculation by some that Haley is implementing a Mad Bomber Attack similar to the Al Davis/ Daryle Lamonica aerial show from the past.[not really]. But it does seem like if they practice a freaking running play in practice everyone has them reverting to the "Return of the 4 Horsemen" or they throw some quick passes and the talk is no more vertical game. Well, rest assured they were practicing bombs the other day so where is everyone at with the Mad Bomber Attack stories?

Crash
06-03-2012, 12:22 PM
See Crash, THIS is the problem. You see people who want balance as a dis to Ben's ability.

People don't want balance. They want to run the ball. Again, where are the people who claim they want balance when I point out how UNBALANCED we are on 1st down, and on 1st down red zone? Why aren't they complaining about that? Because in their mind its OK to be unbalanced as long as it's the beloved running game.


Elway was already great. Elway plus a great run game was much better.

Elway's numbers sucked for 10 years playing in Dan Reeves' offense which had three different Pro Bowl runners in it. Feel free to list them (1983-1992)

Then as I told you, Reeves left, Elway's buddies worked with him, and he was dominant. Feel free to look them up too (1993-1998 ).


Peyton won his only SB basically playing Cowher football in the playoffs.

No, Peyton won his ring despite sucking ass for the majority of those playoffs because his defense carried him.

Oviedo
06-03-2012, 12:26 PM
People don't want balance. They want to run the ball. Again, where are the people who claim they want balance when I point out how UNBALANCED we are on 1st down, and on 1st down red zone? Why aren't they complaining about that? Because in their mind its OK to be unbalanced as long as it's the beloved running game.



Elway's numbers sucked for 10 years playing in Dan Reeves' offense which had three different Pro Bowl runners in it. Feel free to list them (1983-1992)

Then as I told you, Reeves left, Elway's buddies worked with him, and he was dominant. Feel free to look them up too (1993-1998 ).



No, Peyton won his ring despite sucking ass for the majority of those playoffs because his defense carried him.








Who are these people who want to run the ball? Not me. Last thing I want is to take the ball out of Big Ben's hands and put in into Redman's.

I don't think I have ever read where anyone wants to throw 12-15 times per game.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 07:02 PM
People don't want balance. They want to run the ball. Again, where are the people who claim they want balance when I point out how UNBALANCED we are on 1st down, and on 1st down red zone? Why aren't they complaining about that? Because in their mind its OK to be unbalanced as long as it's the beloved running game.



What kinda logic is that?
You cannot narrow the scope to certain scenarios and scream "no balance".f
Hey Crash, we have Ben throw 90 percent of the time when it is 3rd and 10 or more. Balance means it should be 50/50.

A balanced team will tend to run a little more on first down. Any team that is 50/50 on first down will wind up pass heavy overall. Half your completed passes will be first downs. You incompletes result in second and ten. In other words the next play after a 1st and 10 pass is very likely going to be another pass..


Elway's numbers sucked for 10 years playing in Dan Reeves' offense which had three different Pro Bowl runners in it. Feel free to list them (1983-1992)

Oh I forgot Crash. Big Shanahan fan arent we?
Number one rushing performance in BRONCO HISTORY SB win
Number two rushing performance in Bronco history SB win

Do you know how how Shanahan solved the red zone problem?
ONE RUNNINGBACK with 21 TDs was his redzone problem solver.
I'd imagine more than a subtle RedZone edge leanig toward the run that year dont ya think Crash?

Shanahan ffocused on great interior oline play led by athletic linemen who could move. This supported and ELITE run game. He had an elite QB.

TD rushed for 2000 yards and 21 yards in 98.

Elway had a career high QB rating that season. Our old pal Bubby started 4 games and had an even higher rating than Elway. Together they threw for over 3800 yards. That is less than you seem to like but it is a nice number.

You wanna give the coaches credit fine by me. We have a coach who is preaching the Shanahan sermon brother. what's the problem?
If your boy Shanahan was here he would do exactly what Haley is suggesting.

Terrell Davis' success running the ball made play action passing work wonders for that Bronco team. EVEN BUBBY LOOKED GREAT.

That is all we want Crash, and it sounds like that is what Haley wants to do. We are building the oline for a Shanahan style run game.



Then as I told you, Reeves left, Elway's buddies worked with him, and he was dominant. Feel free to look them up too (1993-1998 ).



In other word someone who would fix that weak run game (dont give me the likes of Sammy Winder who as proof of anything, dude made the probowl with under 800 yards). Sounds like what someone did at the Chiefs 2 years ago.


No, Peyton won his ring despite sucking ass for the majority of those playoffs because his defense carried him.

No argument on Peytons bad play, but save for one game he just did not pass that much. It worked. Defense was the best he'd ever had in the postseason. It was bad the whole season. D was28th in the league with the number one offense. HOW CAN THAT BE?

They sat on leads and ran the ball Cowher style. It helps the defense. It won Peyton his only championship.

Crash
06-03-2012, 08:33 PM
Number one rushing performance in BRONCO HISTORY SB win

John Elway set a career high with 27 TD passes in 1997.

See?


Number two rushing performance in Bronco history SB win

22 TD passes in 12 starts for Elway that season also. Yeah he sucked.

In 1997 and 1998? The alleged "run happy" Broncos were in the top 5 in TD passes. They were also in the top 10 in total passing.

Again, list his stats from 1983-1992 and then 1993-1998. Most of his highest passing yard seasons were in the final 6 years of his career. What was his TD/INT ratio with Reeves and his run offense? What was it when they valued Elway and hired his friends and catered to him?


No argument on Peytons bad play, but save for one game he just did not pass that much. It worked.

What worked? So they planned for Peyton to have 1 TD pass and 5 picks after two playoff games?

They didn''t pass because HE COULDN'T STOP THROWING PICKS.


In other word someone who would fix that weak run game (dont give me the likes of Sammy Winder who as proof of anything, dude made the probowl with under 800 yards). Sounds like what someone did at the Chiefs 2 years ago.

Winder made his first Pro Bowl with 1154 yards in 1984. He was an injury replacement in his 2nd Pro Bowl berth.


You wanna give the coaches credit fine by me. We have a coach who is preaching the Shanahan sermon brother. what's the problem?

We have an owner who's turning a HOF QB into Trent Dilfer.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 10:30 PM
John Elway set a career high with 27 TD passes in 1997.

See?

Crash, we all love TD passes. I wish Ben could have MORE TD passes, like Elway who had six more TDs than Ben on a team that RAN THE BALL 86 more times than we did last year. See how much more effective your pass game is when you have a scary run game.
Crash THAT is the difference between an EFFECTIVE offense that is number one in scoring and what we saw last year.

Ben has had ONE SEASON when he bested that number of TD passes.
32 in 2007. OVER ONE HUNDRED LESS passes than last year, 11 more TDs.
Arians most "balanced attack. I liked Arians back then.

That year he threw around 400 passes not 534 like last year. Most rush attempts by an Arians offense. Ben was never better during the season.

Also, 2007 was the highest scoring team in Bens career. (Only OTHER top 10 scoring offense was when Ben passes EVEN LESS under Cowher).

2007 was EXACTLY the kind of play call split Shanahan favors and that brought out the best in Ben and our offense as a whole.

We tried your way and that is why BA is GONE. Our scoring offense has DECLINED (including TD percentage) with Arians moving further and further away from balance.

DukieBoy
06-04-2012, 12:04 AM
Well said, Capt Lem, both recent posts.

SteelAddicted
06-04-2012, 06:42 AM
Ben's a QB with a great arm. I don't blame him for wanting to throw the ball. I do however blame Arians for not being able to control Bens urge to throw the ball. Haley will use Bens strengths when we need them AND keep him healthy. Ben can want to throw the ball all he wants.... Haley will tell him when he can do it.. happy or not.

Oviedo
06-04-2012, 08:05 AM
Ben's a QB with a great arm. I don't blame him for wanting to throw the ball. I do however blame Arians for not being able to control Bens urge to throw the ball. Haley will use Bens strengths when we need them AND keep him healthy. Ben can want to throw the ball all he wants.... Haley will tell him when he can do it.. happy or not.

Arians hurt Ben because he called too many plays focused on deep vertical routes. Ben's strength is in the short to medium routes. If Haley follows through with nhis stated intent to us RBs and TEs more, we heard the latter from Arians too, then Ben will have the best season of his career.

birtikidis
06-04-2012, 08:20 AM
Didn't elway have a 2,000 yd rusher?

Eich
06-04-2012, 08:23 AM
Well said, Capt Lem, both recent posts.


Too bad after all that, all Crash heard was, "Steelers want to go back to the 70's. Steelers want a ground and pound game. Steelers don't value Ben. All Ben is going to do is hand off. Rooney wants more running. Fans want more running. Run, Run, Run. Blah, Blah, Blah".

birtikidis
06-04-2012, 08:25 AM
John Elway set a career high with 27 TD passes in 1997.

See?


[/COLOR]
22 TD passes in 12 starts for Elway that season also. Yeah he sucked.

In 1997 and 1998? The alleged "run happy" Broncos were in the top 5 in TD passes. They were also in the top 10 in total passing.

Again, list his stats from 1983-1992 and then 1993-1998. Most of his highest passing yard seasons were in the final 6 years of his career. What was his TD/INT ratio with Reeves and his run offense? What was it when they valued Elway and hired his friends and catered to him?



What worked? So they planned for Peyton to have 1 TD pass and 5 picks after two playoff games?

They didn''t pass because HE COULDN'T STOP THROWING PICKS.



Winder made his first Pro Bowl with 1154 yards in 1984. He was an injury replacement in his 2nd Pro Bowl berth.


[/COLOR]
We have an owner who's turning a HOF QB into Trent Dilfer.





That sounds a lot like balance to me. Though guys like crash wouldn't want us to run the ball at all.

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 08:30 AM
Didn't elway have a 2,000 yd rusher?

Captain laid it out pretty well... not sure why Elway's SB runs are being used in this argument for less passing.

This debate started over the amount of runs vs passes but I think it's really about "WHEN" we choose to pass.

birtikidis
06-04-2012, 08:50 AM
I personally feel that 58% run on first down is good. Just like over 58% on 3rd and 5+ is good. It's called situational football.

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 09:35 AM
I personally feel that 58% run on first down is good. Just like over 58% on 3rd and 5+ is good. It's called situational football.

Especially with an improved OL!

DukieBoy
06-04-2012, 09:45 AM
Especially with an improved OL!

With an improved OL, maybe those 1st down runs will more reliably produce 2nd down and less than 5yds, instead of the frequent 2nd and 8 or more yards of the past couple of years.

Crash
06-04-2012, 09:47 AM
Ben's a QB with a great arm. I don't blame him for wanting to throw the ball. I do however blame Arians for not being able to control Bens urge to throw the ball. Haley will use Bens strengths when we need them AND keep him healthy. Ben can want to throw the ball all he wants.... Haley will tell him when he can do it.. happy or not.

Like I said, if they want to turn him into Trent Dilfer? Trade him.

Crash
06-04-2012, 09:52 AM
I personally feel that 58% run on first down is good

Nope....not balanced enough. Because when that fails? 2nd and long is must pass most of the time.

If first down is closer to 50-50, I believe second down can be also.

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 09:55 AM
Nope....not balanced enough. Because when that fails? 2nd and long is must pass most of the time.

If first down is closer to 50-50, I believe second down can be also.

This is true...

Passing roughly 50% on first down also decreases predictability...

The trick is not to get too locked into a tendency, which is what I think Arians did...how often have posters on this board lamented Arians' predictable play calling?

Crash
06-04-2012, 09:58 AM
Captain laid it out pretty well... not sure why Elway's SB runs are being used in this argument for less passing

Lemming is one of those idiots who believes the BS that Elway only valued the run game AFTER Shanahan showed up.

Facts prove, that Elway, was HAMPERED by Dan Reeves run offense for 10 years. And only when they catered to Elway, by hiring his hand picked friends, did his career take off, his passing numbers increased, as well as the number of SB rings on his fingers.

The Broncos fired Reeves, ran Elway's colllege offense with his college QB Coach, and then hired his buddies again in 1995.

While we give Ben Chubbs Peterson and tell him to tweak his game.

Brilliant.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:01 AM
This is true...

Passing roughly 50% on first down also decreases predictability...

The trick is not to get too locked into a tendency, which is what I think Arians did...how often have posters on this board lamented Arians' predictable play calling?

But like I said, the minute Arians (or Haley) dare call three straight passes?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Lemming is one of those idiots who believes the BS that Elway only valued the run game AFTER Shanahan showed up.

Facts prove, that Elway, was HAMPERED by Dan Reeves run offense for 10 years. And only when they catered to Elway, by hiring his hand picked friends, did his career take off, his passing numbers increased, as well as the number of SB rings on his fingers.

The Broncos fired Reeves, ran Elway's colllege offense with his college QB Coach, and then hired his buddies again in 1995.

While we give Ben Chubbs Peterson and tell him to tweak his game.

Brilliant.

Facts prove that Ben does need to tweak his game...

As long as Chubbs Peterson and tweaking his game helps Ben improve, I have no problem with that...

But, if you're trying to tell me that Elway didn't benefit from Terrell Davis and Shanahan's commitment to the run game, you're barking up the wrong tree...

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:06 AM
But, if you're trying to tell me that Elway didn't benefit from Terrell Davis and Shanahan's commitment to the run game, you're barking up the wrong tree...

Dan Reeves had commitment to the run game also.

Now how were Elway's numbers for 10 years?

DukieBoy
06-04-2012, 10:09 AM
The possibilities that this upgraded OL will help make both the running game and passing game more effective is exciting. No more losing the LOS on offense, that will be great to see.

Oh, and Lemming is not what you say he is, Crash.

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Dan Reeves had commitment to the run game also.

Now how were Elway's numbers for 10 years?

How many SBs did the Broncos make under Reeves?

That's with guys like Gerald Willhite running the ball...

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 10:20 AM
Lemming is one of those idiots who believes the BS that Elway only valued the run game AFTER Shanahan showed up.

Facts prove, that Elway, was HAMPERED by Dan Reeves run offense for 10 years. And only when they catered to Elway, by hiring his hand picked friends, did his career take off, his passing numbers increased, as well as the number of SB rings on his fingers.

The Broncos fired Reeves, ran Elway's colllege offense with his college QB Coach, and then hired his buddies again in 1995.

While we give Ben Chubbs Peterson and tell him to tweak his game.

Brilliant.

TD's feet were the reason Elway's career took off...

What did Elway do once Davis was injured? How many rings did he get without Davis?

Reeves guided the Broncos to six post-season appearances, five divisional titles, three AFC championships and three Super Bowl appearances (Super Bowl XXI, XXII and XXIV) during his 12-year tenure.

That doesn't look like failure to me, especially when you were the one bragging about Neil O'Donnell making the SB even though we lost it.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:23 AM
How many SBs did the Broncos make under Reeves?

Three, and lost them all.

Then as I said, they built their offense around Elway for 6 years, and he was dominant.

While we shove a golf coach down Ben's throat.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:25 AM
TD's feet were the reason Elway's career took off.

Elway led the league in completions, attempts, and passing yards in 1993.

Terrell Davis was in college.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:27 AM
What did Elway do once Davis was injured?

Um, so you don't even know that Elway retired BEFORE Davis?

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:28 AM
TD's feet were the reason Elway's career took off...

What did Elway do once Davis was injured? How many rings did he get without Davis?

Reeves guided the Broncos to six post-season appearances, five divisional titles, three AFC championships and three Super Bowl appearances (Super Bowl XXI, XXII and XXIV) during his 12-year tenure.

That doesn't look like failure to me, especially when you were the one bragging about Neil O'Donnell making the SB even though we lost it.

Um, no, I was bragging about the fact that the ONE TIME in 10 years that Bill Cowher had a top 10 passing team? They won the AFC.

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 10:42 AM
Um, so you don't even know that Elway retired BEFORE Davis?


[/COLOR]

nope.. don't really follow the Broncos like that...

All I know is Elway got his rings handing off to Davis.

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 10:44 AM
Three, and lost them all.

Then as I said, they built their offense around Elway for 6 years, and he was dominant.

While we shove a golf coach down Ben's throat.

And the Steelers lost a SB with a top 10 passing game...

Your point?

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:46 AM
All I know is Elway got his rings handing off to Davis.

Yeah, top 5 in the NFL in TD passes in 1997 and 1998 and a top 10 passing team in 1997 and 1998 as well.

Handing off to Davis indeed.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:48 AM
And the Steelers lost a SB with a top 10 passing game...

Your point?

That 9 years of top 10 run offenses, resulted in no AFC titles and a joke home playoff record.

Funny, everyone hated evil Arians and his offense.

That offense went 4-1 at home in the playoffs.

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 10:52 AM
Yeah, top 5 in the NFL in TD passes in 1997 and 1998 and a top 10 passing team in 1997 and 1998 as well.

Handing off to Davis indeed.

Indeed...

369 rushing attempts in 97
392 rushing attempts n 98...

Crash
06-04-2012, 11:02 AM
Indeed...

369 rushing attempts in 97
392 rushing attempts n 98...

So how were they top 10 in passing if all Elway did was hand off?

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 11:25 AM
So how were they top 10 in passing if all Elway did was hand off?

He didn't. They were a balanced team...

Which is what most of us want the Steelers to be...

steelblood
06-04-2012, 11:35 AM
This thread makes me car sick.

Jooser
06-04-2012, 12:14 PM
This thread makes me car sick.

No kidding, most of these idiotically hijacked threads make me want to blow chunks. It's getting ridiculous, if this was Survivor, I know who'd get voted off the island first....[HINT].

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 12:40 PM
So how were they top 10 in passing if all Elway did was hand off?

magic???? :cool:

DukieBoy
06-04-2012, 12:55 PM
I have not yet looked for the "Ignore" feature on this new version of Planet Steelers. I think I may want to find it now.

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2012, 01:23 PM
Lemming is one of those idiots...

Let's not call other posters idiots. I shouldn't need to formally remind you of this simple fact, but I am. Thanks.

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2012, 01:26 PM
He didn't. They were a balanced team...

Which is what most of us want the Steelers to be...

Balance? What is this balance that you speak of? Teams either run the Mouse Davis run-and-shoot or else they are a prehistoric single wing smashmouth rushing offense. There is no in between in some minds...

DukieBoy
06-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Balance? What is this balance that you speak of? Teams either run the Mouse Davis run-and-shoot or else they are a prehistoric single wing smashmouth rushing offense. There is no in between in some minds...

There's some blasts from the past. With our stable of RB's we could operate a full-house backfield. YIKES!

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 01:41 PM
Balance? What is this balance that you speak of? Teams either run the Mouse Davis run-and-shoot or else they are a prehistoric single wing smashmouth rushing offense. There is no in between in some minds...

Rainey or Antonio Brown would be the Wingback...

IIRC, the Steelers were the last NFL team to run the single wing back in the 40s...

Incidentally, shotgun formations came from the single wing...

Jooser
06-04-2012, 02:15 PM
Let's not call other posters idiots. I shouldn't need to formally remind you of this simple fact, but I am. Thanks.

Thanks for the reminder, I've actually had to re-work some posts before hitting the submit button lately..... :D

Crash
06-04-2012, 02:53 PM
He didn't. They were a balanced team...

Which is what most of us want the Steelers to be...

The Steelers were 10th in passing and 14th in rushing.

That's balance.

Again, if one won't admit to how only forcing 15 turnovers all year on defense affects offensive scoring in this NFL? Don't waste my time.

birtikidis
06-04-2012, 07:12 PM
This is true...

Passing roughly 50% on first down also decreases predictability...

The trick is not to get too locked into a tendency, which is what I think Arians did...how often have posters on this board lamented Arians' predictable play calling?
It was absolutely about being predictable. The maddening part to me, wasn't the percent of anything. It was the TYPE of call. It was either a bomb, run or a bubble screen

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 09:20 PM
The Steelers were 10th in passing and 14th in rushing.

That's balance.

Again, if one won't admit to how only forcing 15 turnovers all year on defense affects offensive scoring in this NFL? Don't waste my time.

The Steelers passed 56% of the time and ran only 44% of the time. That's not balance...

If you don't want me to waste your time, then don't read my posts...

Isn't that what you tell other posters?

Crash
06-04-2012, 09:25 PM
The Steelers passed 56% of the time and ran only 44% of the time. That's not balance...

You think 56% passing is too high when you have an alleged top 5 QB behind center?

If you believe that, you can't possibly want Roethlisberger and his $15 mil a year cap hit on this team.

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 09:36 PM
You think 56% passing is too high when you have an alleged top 5 QB behind center?

If you believe that, you can't possibly want Roethlisberger and his $15 mil a year cap hit on this team. [/COLOR]

Nice straw man argument!

Try again with something legit...

Crash
06-04-2012, 09:46 PM
Nice straw man argument!

Try again with something legit...

It's a valid question. Like I told you before, if you want close to 50% TOTAL, then there is no way you'd pay a QB $15 mil a year to hand off all day.

It's not worth the cost. You'd be short-changing your own team.

If you want a game manager, go pay Leftwich.

fezziwig
06-04-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm a huge Ben Roethlisberger fan, but he continues to irritate me with his snide little comments. The more I hear from him, the more I want him to just shut up.

I have to agree. Ben was the answer to my prayers for so many years but he does need to tone it down a bit. Coaches change, players change, systems change and Ben needs to change.
As a fan I get it that, it's a passing league and I have no problem with that. I think many fans and Dan Rooney felt that, when it does come down to NEEDING to run the ball, we wanted a coach that would take it more serious and to be prepared and/or at least mix things up against the defense. I hope someone would teach Ben how not to brodcast his handoffs. I've never seen or can't remember seeing any QB stiff arm a handoff like he's raising a flag as Ben does. It's almost like he wants the defense to zone in on the runningback.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:40 PM
When you listen to Ben and not read him there's no issue. None.

hawaiiansteel
06-05-2012, 02:16 AM
Roethlisberger Needs His Underdog Mentallity To Get Through Feelings Of Lack Of Confidence In Him

Monday, June 4th, 2012 by Dave Bryan


One of the biggest topics of discussion amongst Pittsburgh Steelers fans this off-season, outside of the ongoing status of restricted free agent wide receiver Mike Wallace, is the change of offensive coordinators and how quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has handled it.

Roethlisberger is perceived by many as one, and the only one, bucking the change so far, and with good reason, as his comments made about the new offense have included several Rosetta Stone references, which infers to how hard the translation of it is. Last week Roethlisberger took it a bit father by saying the fan base would finally get its wish because the offense will apparently run the ball more in 2012, a blatant jab that he was not in favor of it.

While many think that Roethlisberger has issues with new offensive coordinator Todd Haley, who replaced his good friend and golfing buddy Bruce Arians, the real issue is likely that he feels slighted by the organization by having all of his input and control of the game planning ripped from him. In short, he feels Art Rooney II and company do not trust him or his opinion like they have for the past several years.

While Roethlisberger is surely not naive enough to think that Arians would have been his offensive coordinator for the rest of his career, he likely thought that his eight years in the league, that includes two Super Bowl championships and three AFC crowns, would give him some level of say in who was hired and what type of offense they would run moving forward. He likely thinks that he has earned that right over the years as one of the top quarterbacks in the league.

Control is something that Roethlisberger has been used to since Arians took over as offensive coordinator and Mike Tomlin was named the new head coach in 2007. Sports Illustrated posted a story back in November 2007 that tells about rise in trust the organization had in Roethlisberger, who just so happened to be coming off of a season that saw him throw for 23 interceptions versus just 18 touchdowns. The story goes that Arians and Roethlisberger were coming off the 7th green at Treesdale Golf & Country Club in Gibsonia, Pa. when Arians told his quarterback, "I want you to know something. This is not my offense. From now on this is your offense."

Arians reportedly at that time let Roethlisberger edit the playbook that he had used under his first offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt and allowed him to throw out some plays and rename others. In addition, Roethlisberger was allowed to change the verbiage and terminology of the offense so that it was easier for him to transmit in the huddle. Roethlisberger also implemented his own acronyms and word associations during that change over according to the story. When Whisenhunt was at the helm, Roethlisberger would normally receive the game plan when he arrived at the team facility on Wednesday morning with no say-so in it whatsoever. When Arians took over, the Steelers quarterback helped formulate the game plan at the beginning of the week and there is no reason to think that any of that has changed since then.

One of the biggest criticisms of Arians over the years is that he was too buddy-buddy with Roethlisberger and that he did not incorporate enough change in the offense over the years since he took over that it became too predictable in some instances. Throughout that span of time Roethlisberger became known as a quarterback that held the ball too long in addition. Even as elusive as he would be behind an often piecemealed offensive line, he still was sacked 215 times over the course of 73 regular season games. This led to several nagging injuries over the years and it all came to a head last season with his severe ankle injury that he suffered against the Cleveland Browns in week 14.

Should the Steelers somehow have went on to win the Super Bowl last year, it was clear that Rooney II had enough and a change of coordinators likely would have taken place regardless. A banged up franchise quarterback and an inexcusable loss to the Denver Broncos, even though it was not fully the fault of the offense, gave Rooney II the perfect opportunity to change things up and he did. Although Tomlin said it was his decision, it was one that was made with his arm twisted behind his back more than likely.

The hiring of Haley, which Tomlin also claimed to be his call, was one that had the fingerprints of Rooney II all over it as well because of the Steelers coaching tree association that Haley has along with his militant coaching style. Rooney II basically had seen that his quarterback had too much say in what was going on thus the change needed to be made in his eyes.

Roethlisberger has used the word "change" quite a bit this off-season in regard to the new offense and coordinator, but it is not the first time he has used it with the media though. Back in 2007, after learning that he would have a bigger say in the offense, he was quoted as saying, "It is definitely a change," Roethlisberger said. "It gives you a lot more confidence to know that your coach believes in you."

Roethlisberger now is in the midst of change in the other direction and he most likely feels that the confidence that was bestowed on him several years ago is no more. He most likely feels like a rookie once again with Haley now in charge and his multiple jabs that he takes through the media are a defense mechanism of his that he just isn't channeling properly.

Back in that 2007 story I keep referencing, Roethlisberger was quoted as saying, "I like being the underdog." That underdog mentality is the best defense mechanism that he will need the most for him to lead the Steelers to their 7th Super Bowl championship in 2012 as the jabs through the media are falling on deaf ears of the organization and only being heard by the fan base, many of who think he is acting like a little baby.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/roethlisberger_needs_his_underdog_mentallity_to_ge t_through_feelings_of_lack_of_confidence_in_him/10937666

SteelAddicted
06-05-2012, 06:47 AM
Like I said, if they want to turn him into Trent Dilfer? Trade him.

I don't think utilizing short to medium routes and a running game equates to Trent Dilfer. I also don't think throwing the ball 40 times a game equates to a superbowl (on a regular basis) The idea is to keep teams on their toes when it comes to play calling and game planning.

When you have one of, if not the best defense in the league. You want to eat a lot of clock, keep the defense rested and control the game. A nice balanced attack is the way to strengthen what the Steeler do as an organization.

I still think we'll see a decent amount of passing, just now we'll see it when it makes sense.

Eich
06-05-2012, 08:17 AM
Roethlisberger Needs His Underdog Mentallity To Get Through Feelings Of Lack Of Confidence In Him

Monday, June 4th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Back in that 2007 story I keep referencing, Roethlisberger was quoted as saying, "I like being the underdog." That underdog mentality is the best defense mechanism that he will need the most for him to lead the Steelers to their 7th Super Bowl championship in 2012 as the jabs through the media are falling on deaf ears of the organization and only being heard by the fan base, many of who think he is acting like a little baby.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/roethlisberger_needs_his_underdog_mentallity_to_ge t_through_feelings_of_lack_of_confidence_in_him/10937666

Yep - I said it in another thread, Ben is a lot like Hines Ward in this respect. They both play with a large chip on their shoulder. It's what motivates how they play and it ends up motivating what they say. How they say it has been different but the reason is the same.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 09:51 AM
It's a valid question. Like I told you before, if you want close to 50% TOTAL, then there is no way you'd pay a QB $15 mil a year to hand off all day.

It's not worth the cost. You'd be short-changing your own team.

In your opinion...I happen to disagree with that opinion...

Also, a balanced offense does not equal "handing the ball off all day" or "game manager"...

Straw man argument...

grotonsteel
06-05-2012, 10:53 AM
I hope someone would teach Ben how not to brodcast his handoffs. I've never seen or can't remember seeing any QB stiff arm a handoff like he's raising a flag as Ben does. It's almost like he wants the defense to zone in on the runningback.

Well he learnt the handoff from Peyton Manning. I guess thats why Colts running game sucks too.

grotonsteel
06-05-2012, 10:57 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19255312

After seven seasons under the Ken Whisenhunt/Bruce Arians regimes, TE Heath Miller (http://www.planetsteelers.com/nfl/players/playerpage/416861/heath-miller) is learning anew with Todd Haley's revised offensive plan. "Anytime you do something for going on eight years and you've got to change the way you think about things, it's not easy,” Miller said. “But we're out here working, we're studying, changing our mindset. We should be rolling by (training) camp."


Heath how dare you say its not easy. I just wish heath would STFU and spend spend more time learning playbook. </sarcasm>

I guess people who said Ben should STFU will be doing the same to Heath i guess.

Crash
06-05-2012, 11:32 AM
In your opinion...I happen to disagree with that opinion...

Also, a balanced offense does not equal "handing the ball off all day" or "game manager"...

Straw man argument...

If you think 56% total passing is too high? Then you want a game manager behind center.

If the Steelers are hell bent on 50-50 TOTAL? Makes no sense to pay Ben what you pay him.

That's wasting his talent.

feltdizz
06-05-2012, 12:00 PM
I don't care if its 60-40 pass or 55-45 run... balance to me is doing both well and leaning on whatever works to win.

fezziwig
06-05-2012, 12:06 PM
I don't care about the percentages as much as I want the offense being able to do as they please against a defense. When it was time to muscle up with running the ball we were not a threat.

Crash
06-05-2012, 12:37 PM
I don't care about the percentages as much as I want the offense being able to do as they please against a defense. When it was time to muscle up with running the ball we were not a threat.

Well as they say for the defense when they get shredded: The other guys get paid too.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 12:44 PM
If you think 56% total passing is too high? Then you want a game manager behind center.

No, I don't...if I wanted a "game manager", I would want the Steelers to run the ball 55-60% of the time...again, I don't...


If the Steelers are hell bent on 50-50 TOTAL? Makes no sense to pay Ben what you pay him.

That's wasting his talent.

That's your opinion...I disagree...

Oviedo
06-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Why don't we wait and see what actually happens after the first couple of games versus a 20 page thread on how the sky is falling?

Crash
06-05-2012, 12:59 PM
No, I don't...if I wanted a "game manager", I would want the Steelers to run the ball 55-60% of the time...again, I don't...



That's your opinion...I disagree...

Any idiot can hand off 50% of the time Slap.

And won't cost them $15 mil a season to do it.

You want 50% running? You need to invest in RBs and OLs.

You don't run the ball 50% of the time with Redman, Clay, and Dwyer.

That's silly.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 01:14 PM
Any idiot can hand off 50% of the time Slap.

And won't cost them $15 mil a season to do it.

You want 50% running? You need to invest in RBs and OLs.

You don't run the ball 50% of the time with Redman, Clay, and Dwyer.

That's silly.

If you say so...

But, you're wrong...

Crash
06-05-2012, 01:16 PM
If you say so...

But, you're wrong...

We'll see. Like I pointed out today, the Jags 2007 playoff game they did exactly what Art wanted: Run the ball and play defense late.

They lost.

phillyesq
06-05-2012, 01:21 PM
Why don't we wait and see what actually happens after the first couple of games versus a 20 page thread on how the sky is falling?

Why do that when we can turn every thread on the board into a rant against the owner and blindly in support of the QB, who has no flaws whatsoever.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 01:21 PM
We'll see. Like I pointed out today, the Jags 2007 playoff game they did exactly what Art wanted: Run the ball and play defense late.

They lost.

And yet, with almost the same formula in 2008, they won a SB...hmm...

Crash
06-05-2012, 01:28 PM
And yet, with almost the same formula in 2008

Dick LeBeau's defense gave up 20-7 4th quarter lead.

THEN.....the offense went 88 yards in two minutes, and saved his ass.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 01:36 PM
Dick LeBeau's defense gave up 20-7 4th quarter lead.

THEN.....the offense went 88 yards in two minutes, and saved his ass.

So, the offense was responsible for scoring all those points?

The offense didn't give up a safety? Which gave possession right back to the Cards?

Really?

Crash
06-05-2012, 01:40 PM
So, the offense was responsible for scoring all those points?

The offense didn't give up a safety? Which gave possession right back to the Cards?

Really?

The defense sucked in the 4th quarter. Warner did NOTHING for most of the game.

Then for some reason only known to senile Dick LeBeau, he went prevent up 20-7, and the Cards went down the field.

THAT my friend, put the Cards back in the game.

It's sad, I have more confidence in the Steelers defense making a play late than LeBeau does.

He'd rather play prevent instead of allowing players to make plays.

Oviedo
06-05-2012, 01:42 PM
Why do that when we can turn every thread on the board into a rant against the owner and blindly in support of the QB, who has no flaws whatsoever.


I guess you are right because all these threads recently seem to be saying the same thing over and over and over. Maybe we need another draft to talk about?

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Let's not call other posters idiots. I shouldn't need to formally remind you of this simple fact, but I am. Thanks.

Crash always calls me names.
It is a natural consequence of getting OWNED in an argument.

feltdizz
06-05-2012, 03:01 PM
Dick LeBeau's defense gave up 20-7 4th quarter lead.

THEN.....the offense went 88 yards in two minutes, and saved his ass.

they also scored on the last play of the half and outscored the offense in a few games in 2008. That's the wrong year to bash the D. They won us a ton of games when the O looked like butt juice.

fezziwig
06-05-2012, 03:05 PM
I'm a huge fan of Lebeaus but I have to admit, his defenses look very confused at times. I don't even think confused is the right word but, without having Troy, Harris and Woodley playing lights out his defense just looks sluggish ...I can't put my finger on it.

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 03:08 PM
We'll see. Like I pointed out today, the Jags 2007 playoff game they did exactly what Art wanted: Run the ball and play defense late.

They lost.

They ran 26 times and passed 42 times.
Three passes were picked, one a pick six, another led to a score.
We lost by THREE measly points!!!

Crash the 2007 strategy WAS NOT EMPLOYED in that game.
We put the game on the broad shoulders of Ben and he had a season high number of attempts.

The defense game up only 239 yards and had two picks, at least one that lead to a score. But we blame DL?

We played Crash football and "Crash" is what we did against a clearly inferior opponent.

Northern_Blitz
06-05-2012, 03:33 PM
We'll see. Like I pointed out today, the Jags 2007 playoff game they did exactly what Art wanted: Run the ball and play defense late.

They lost.

This is ridiculous.

First, in that game we had 43 rushing yards (out of 340 yards) and they ran the ball 26 times out of 76 plays. We did not run the ball often (33%), nor did we run the ball effectively. That loss (much like the Raven's lost last year) can be but directly on turnovers.

Second, despite having a terrible running game, we almost won because good Ben showed up in the second half. Unfortunately, terrible Ben showed up in the first and threw 3 picks. That's why we didn't run the ball too much, because we were way down. Doesn't really fit the prevent D narrative you seem to be creating.

It's also worth noting the the D, got two turnovers late in the game so good Ben had the chance to score some points (some of which came through the running game).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008010501/2007/POST18/jaguars@steelers?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#tab=anal yze&analyze=boxscore

Oviedo
06-05-2012, 03:47 PM
I'm a huge fan of Lebeaus but I have to admit, his defenses look very confused at times. I don't even think confused is the right word but, without having Troy, Harris and Woodley playing lights out his defense just looks sluggish ...I can't put my finger on it.

I've been saying for the past two years that the only people we are confusing with LeBeau's self imposed complexity is ourselves in many cases. IMO the sluggish nature is because both our DL and DBs are asked to play passive. The DL is rarely in the attack mode because they are just suppose to "dance" with the OL to keep them off the LBs and the DBs are just asked to keep the guy in front of them.

I totally agree with your initial hypothesis, we ask three guys to be dynamic and eight others not to let anything bad happens. The Steelers "attacking style" has become a myth. Less and less do we see the ILBs blitzing or Cornerbacks blitzing. We overly rely on an aging Harrison, Troy and Woodley. It's no accident that we had the lowest sacks and turnover numbers in a decade last year. The 3-4 is great when in the constant attack mode. It is easily exploited when not.

Many times it seems LeBeau is playcalling like he is afraid something will go wrong and I don't say that because I don't like LeBeau which will be the immediate reaction. I think Lebeau was great in his time when he was innovating and we were blitzing from everywhere. That isn't happening anymore which is why I think we need a fresh look on our defense and what it does.

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2012, 03:50 PM
I'm a huge fan of Lebeaus but I have to admit, his defenses look very confused at times. I don't even think confused is the right word but, without having Troy, Harris and Woodley playing lights out his defense just looks sluggish ...I can't put my finger on it.

You can play this game with any defense...

...without having Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, and Ed Reed playing lights out the Ravens defense just looks sluggish...I can't put my finger on it...

...without having Justin Smith, Patrick Willis, and Dashon Goldson playing lights out the Niners defense just looks sluggish...I can't put my finger on it...

I could go on, but you get the idea...

birtikidis
06-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Dick LeBeau's defense gave up 20-7 4th quarter lead.

THEN.....the offense went 88 yards in two minutes, and saved his ass.
And without that defense we lose. Bc we couldnt score against the CARDINALS

Crash
06-05-2012, 04:27 PM
And without that defense we lose. Bc we couldnt score against the CARDINALS

We only had the ball 5 times in 45 minutes because the defense couldn't get off the field. We scored on three of those drives.

The offense came out on fire, 10 points on two straight drives, gaining yards, chewing up clock, they score a TD to go up 10-0.

Then................the defense gave up another TD right after the offense scored one themselves.

I guess the defense was tired after one series of work.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-05-2012, 04:28 PM
I think Lebeau was great in his time when he was innovating and we were blitzing from everywhere. That isn't happening anymore which is why I think we need a fresh look on our defense and what it does.
:Clap:Clap:Clap
The low number of turnovers forced by the D last season is good evidence for what you are saying.
Attack, force turnovers, shut down the opponent in critical situations...all of these things are of greater value, IMO, than simply being at the top in fewest yards allowed.

Crash
06-05-2012, 05:16 PM
We don't attack anymore. The only who attacks is Troy. Corner blitzes are rare. Clark blitzing is rare.

It's basically Troy, and ILBs up the middle. Those are our "blitzes".

ikestops85
06-05-2012, 05:21 PM
:Clap:Clap:Clap
The low number of turnovers forced by the D last season is good evidence for what you are saying.
Attack, force turnovers, shut down the opponent in critical situations...all of these things are of greater value, IMO, than simply being at the top in fewest yards allowed.

I have to agree that being first in fewest yards allowed doesn't mean much. Being first in fewest points allowed means you are playing damned good defense.

Crash
06-05-2012, 05:25 PM
Not all the time. When the Texans held the ball for 11 minutes to start the game, did their "defense" stop our offense?

No.

When the Steelers offense held the ball for almost 6 minutes to start the Pats game, did the "defense" stop Brady?

No.

That's what some fans can't grasp. Context means more than box scores and fantasy rankings.

fezziwig
06-05-2012, 05:57 PM
What is the problem then, players getting old ? Injuries or Lebeau forgot how to coach ? I believe Harris was banged up at the start last season. Smith wasn't getting his job done when he was playing. Clark would make receivers regret they caught the ball in his area. Troy doesn't seem to be Johnny On The Spot like he used to be. I thought Ike did a good job up until the Broncos playoff and even then, I thought it had to do more with poor coaching schemes than it had to do with Ike. Lebeau acting like Tebow had no arms. Woodley, I can't recall how his season went. I think he started out slow again and then poured it on or did he start out with a bang and then drift away ? No matter what the issues were of last season they usually right the ship on defense after having an off year. Hopefully they'll figure things out.

birtikidis
06-05-2012, 06:05 PM
We only had the ball 5 times in 45 minutes because the defense couldn't get off the field. We scored on three of those drives.

The offense came out on fire, 10 points on two straight drives, gaining yards, chewing up clock, they score a TD to go up 10-0.

Then................the defense gave up another TD right after the offense scored one themselves.

I guess the defense was tired after one series of work.
And the defense scored 7 in the first half. Nearly as much as the offense.

birtikidis
06-05-2012, 06:07 PM
What is the problem then, players getting old ? Injuries or Lebeau forgot how to coach ? I believe Harris was banged up at the start last season. Smith wasn't getting his job done when he was playing. Clark would make receivers regret they caught the ball in his area. Troy doesn't seem to be Johnny On The Spot like he used to be. I thought Ike did a good job up until the Broncos playoff and even then, I thought it had to do more with poor coaching schemes than it had to do with Ike. Lebeau acting like Tebow had no arms. Woodley, I can't recall how his season went. I think he started out slow again and then poured it on or did he start out with a bang and then drift away ? No matter what the issues were of last season they usually right the ship on defense after having an off year. Hopefully they'll figure things out.
The main problem is that the league has changed and our offense can't keep up with the changes.

Crash
06-05-2012, 06:49 PM
We don't want our offense to change. Art wants the run game.

We changed in 2009 and the offense was scapegoated for the defenses 4th quarter problems.

Then we dump our best receiver for a box of cleats.

And the offense has been erratic ever since.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-05-2012, 08:07 PM
Then we dump our best receiver for a box of cleats.

You talking about Santokio? Considering the state of his intelligence, and the condition of the cow pasture they call Heinz Field, that might be one of the best trades we ever made!

birtikidis
06-05-2012, 10:22 PM
We don't want our offense to change. Art wants the run game.

We changed in 2009 and the offense was scapegoated for the defenses 4th quarter problems.

Then we dump our best receiver for a box of cleats.

And the offense has been erratic ever since.
Of course you don't. In your mind, the offense is unstoppable force. The only one that is stopping it is the OWNER. because He has NO IDEA what he's doing. You'd also have kept a guy who was about to be suspended for four weeks and would have been a ton to keep. SMH. Crash, sometimes you are a very knowledgable poster, but most of the time, your opinion is all that matters to you.

Crash
06-05-2012, 10:33 PM
You'd also have kept a guy who was about to be suspended for four weeks and would have been a ton to keep.

A ton to keep? He was in the last year of his ROOKIE contract.

And as far as the suspension goes, Wesley Saunders is still employed, correct?

birtikidis
06-05-2012, 10:45 PM
When that contract ended, what did stonedio get?
We weren't going to sign him. We had to get rid of one of our a$$holes. It was either him or Ben. You choose.

Crash
06-05-2012, 10:50 PM
When that contract ended, what did stonedio get?
We weren't going to sign him. We had to get rid of one of our a$$holes. It was either him or Ben. You choose.

Why did it have to be either? You don't give away a solid VET WR if you are the contender you think you are and then complain when the offense struggles with a 2nd year WR, two rookies, and a washed up ARE and Hines at wide out.

Flasteel
06-05-2012, 11:20 PM
Man...didn't Crash start the week somewhere around 3,500 posts?

I think he's been dipping into Saunder's Adderall stash, feasting on nothing but Kimchi, and engaging in self-flagellation while staring at his defaced Hines Ward Fathead for the past few days.

How else do you explain such an epic binge of bitterness?:p

Crash
06-05-2012, 11:23 PM
Man...didn't Crash start the week somewhere around 3,500 posts?

I think he's been dipping into Saunder's Adderall stash, feasting on nothing but Kimchi, and engaging in self-flagellation while staring at his defaced Hines Ward Fathead for the past few days.

How else do you explain such an epic binge of bitterness?:p

Kimchi is nasty. Avoid ruffage.

I don't own a Ward Fat Head. He only has one ACL and I didn't give him a chance.

Slapstick
06-06-2012, 08:14 AM
Not all the time. When the Texans held the ball for 11 minutes to start the game, did their "defense" stop our offense?

No.

When the Steelers offense held the ball for almost 6 minutes to start the Pats game, did the "defense" stop Brady?

No.

That's what some fans can't grasp. Context means more than box scores and fantasy rankings.

Whne you have to cherry pick two instances out of an entire season, the defense played very well...

steelnavy
06-06-2012, 08:49 AM
We'll see. Like I pointed out today, the Jags 2007 playoff game they did exactly what Art wanted: Run the ball and play defense late.

They lost.

Except they lost partly because of a TERRIBLE call by BA himself. If I recall correctly, if we get a first down we run down the clock. Its 3rd and forever (7? 10?) and Ben runs a quarterback sneak up the middle. Sure, lets blame that on the Rooney's philosophy. That is the kind of stuff that got swept out the door with BA...

feltdizz
06-06-2012, 09:58 AM
It was a naked bootleg if I recall and if the lineman leading Ben gets a hat on the defender and Ben goes outside it's a first down. Gutsy call and it's one that can make you a genius or an idiot depending on the execution.

Crash
06-06-2012, 12:40 PM
Whne you have to cherry pick two instances out of an entire season, the defense played very well...

They were aided by a team that was #2 in TOP. That's why I mention when they give up points before the offense sees the field (I believe it was 6 games they gave up points on their opening drive) or when they give up points after we score.

It happened more than twice (if you watch as much as you say you do you'd know this), those were just two examples off the top of my head.

Crash
06-06-2012, 12:43 PM
Except they lost partly because of a TERRIBLE call by BA himself. If I recall correctly, if we get a first down we run down the clock. Its 3rd and forever (7? 10?) and Ben runs a quarterback sneak up the middle. Sure, lets blame that on the Rooney's philosophy. That is the kind of stuff that got swept out the door with BA...

And like you were told. They didn't even try to get a first down. It was a play to chew clock, the same play they called against the Browns ealier in the season in the same situation.

Do you REALLY believe that if they were going for a first down they would run a QB draw from shotgun on 3rd and 6?

The problem was that Sepulveda against the Jags got off a crap punt.

feltdizz
06-06-2012, 12:45 PM
Avoid ruffage.



No wonder you are always in a bad mood.

RuthlessBurgher
06-06-2012, 01:28 PM
We don't want our offense to change. Art wants the run game.

We changed in 2009 and the offense was scapegoated for the defenses 4th quarter problems.

Then we dump our best receiver for a box of cleats.

And the offense has been erratic ever since.

Santonio was traded for a 5th round pick which was subsequently flipped to Arizona for McFadden and a 6th round pick that we used to select a WR who is younger, cheaper, and had 18 more catches for 454 more yards than Holmes last season. Is Antonio Brown a box of cleats?

hawaiiansteel
06-06-2012, 09:37 PM
Haley senses no concern in Roethlisberger over changes

Posted by Mike Florio on June 6, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/haley-e1339031144688.jpg?w=218

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has admitted from time to time that he was and still is concerned about the changes on offense in Pittsburgh. Offensive coordinator Todd Haley says that, if Roethlisberger is concerned, Haley hasn’t experienced it.

“I haven’t sensed any of that concern, at least me personally,” Haley said Wednesday, via the Associated Press. “He’s in here, he’s working hard. He’s into it — even the days when he hasn’t practiced, he’s over my shoulder, talking, commenting, discussing. That’s what I’ve seen out of all the good quarterbacks — really good quarterbacks — that I’ve been around act like.”

Still, Haley realizes that it’s natural to resist a new approach. “Change is not always comfortable, and we said that right out of the gate,” Haley said. “Sometimes when there are changes, that’s a way to keep guys on their toes and keep their focus on the understanding of what the goal is — and that is to win Super Bowls.”

It’s unclear how much the offense really will change. Amid reports and speculation that Roethlisberger will be expected to remain in the pocket in order to minimize the number of hits he takes, Haley says he won’t take away one of the quarterback’s strengths.

“It’s one of the best things he does, and it’s what separates him from all the other guys in the league for the most part,” Haley said. “So you don’t want to take that great ability away from him.”

More changes could be coming. Haley, who has a reputation for being a little intense (to say the least), says that he has yet to really get going. “I don’t flip that switch until a little later,” Haley said. “In training camp, we’ll pick it up a notch.”

So, basically, there’s still plenty of time for Ben to be flabbergasted.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/06/haley-senses-no-concern-in-roethlisberger-over-changes/

Crash
06-06-2012, 09:47 PM
Flabbergast this Florio you freaking tool.

Is Terry Bradshaw dead yet?

BradshawsHairdresser
06-07-2012, 01:39 AM
Flabbergast this Florio you freaking tool.

Is Terry Bradshaw dead yet?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Captain Lemming
06-07-2012, 09:10 AM
And like you were told. They didn't even try to get a first down. It was a play to chew clock, the same play they called against the Browns ealier in the season in the same situation.

Do you REALLY believe that if they were going for a first down they would run a QB draw from shotgun on 3rd and 6?

The problem was that Sepulveda against the Jags got off a crap punt.

3 picks will doe that to you. That reflects Arians level of confidence in the QB.
Easiest way to lose that game is with a pick. Game over.
Its not like Art II (not yet the top dog) is in the dudes ear calling plays.
You hate the play? It is all on Arians.

Crash
06-07-2012, 10:51 AM
3 picks will doe that to you.

Actually worrying about the past will do that to you. Ben and the offense were dominant in that 2nd half. The picks were a memory at that point.

Arians did what people want, play it safe, run the ball like Franco did, and rely on the defense.

They lost.

Slapstick
06-07-2012, 11:36 AM
Actually worrying about the past will do that to you. Ben and the offense were dominant in that 2nd half. The picks were a memory at that point.

Arians did what people want, play it safe, run the ball like Franco did, and rely on the defense.

They lost.

What people wanted was to win a home playoff game...

Arians didn't help to do that, so he was not renewed...

Crash
06-07-2012, 12:09 PM
What people wanted was to win a home playoff game...

Arians didn't help to do that, so he was not renewed...

Um, what?

Arians record at home as the OC of this team was an outstanding 4-1 Slap.

If that's not good enough, what is?????

Make an effort will you?

feltdizz
06-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Actually worrying about the past will do that to you.


:smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile:: smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::s mile::smile::smile:

oh, the irony!!!

Jooser
06-07-2012, 01:19 PM
:smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile:: smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::s mile::smile::smile:

oh, the irony!!!

No freaking doubt dizz! LMAO! :D

hawaiiansteel
06-07-2012, 03:28 PM
Then we dump our best receiver for a box of cleats.

And the offense has been erratic ever since.


I think we got the better end of that deal, Sanstonio is a cancer...


Santonio Holmes not ready for reps

Updated: June 7, 2012
By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- New York Jets wide receiver Santonio Holmes, who missed a handful of voluntary practice sessions while out of the country on a good-will trip to a U.S. Air Force base in Germany, pulled himself out of practice Thursday because he felt he was being overworked.

Near the end of the two-hour workout, Holmes limped off the field and tossed his helmet, seemingly out of frustration. He spoke to receivers coach Sanjay Lal and also spent time with the trainer. Afterward, Holmes insisted he wasn't injured, but he still seemed bothered.

"I was talking to the coach, letting him understand it was too many reps today," Holmes said. "I've been gone for a while, so I can't be at full tempo like the rest of the guys and where they want us to be at."

Holmes said he was slated for 35 practice reps, but left after 20 or 25. The Jets wrapped up their OTA workouts, with a mandatory minicamp scheduled for next week.

The irony, of course, is that Holmes had to be pulled out of the Jets' final game, in the final minutes of the season-ending loss to the Miami Dolphins. Holmes was frustrated by his lack of involvement in the offense -- he had no receptions -- and complained in the huddle, nearly coming to blows with right tackle Wayne Hunter.

That was the seminal moment of the Jets' well-chronicled season of turmoil, much of which involved Holmes and quarterback Mark Sanchez.

After a tumultuous couple of months, the team is trying to rebuild its chemistry. Holmes took another positive step this week by declaring that he will attend Sanchez's "Jets West" passing camp in the coming weeks at the high school in Mission Viejo, Calif., that the quarterback attended.

Holmes was at "Jets West" in 2010, but skipped last year's camp because he was unsigned at the time. Even though he's not team captain anymore, Holmes feels he needs to be there because he still sees himself as a team leader.

"Being out there is going to give the young guys a sense of security, knowing we have our veteran, we have our leader here with us, who's going to help us and get us on the same page," Holmes said. "I think all of us doing the same thing at the same time will be a great chemistry builder."

Coach Rex Ryan has all but admitted he made a bad decision by making Holmes a captain. In fact, Ryan said he no longer will have team captains.

Holmes is the elder statesman of a young receiving corps, which includes a likely rookie starter, Stephen Hill, so he's trying to show the way.

But he admittedly still isn't in top shape.

"I'm at OTA No. 5," he said. "I've got lot of catching up to do for myself."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8021755/santonio-holmes-new-york-jets-ends-practice-early-felt-overused

Oviedo
06-07-2012, 03:32 PM
I think we got the better end of that deal, Sanstonio is a cancer...


Santonio Holmes not ready for reps

Updated: June 7, 2012
By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- New York Jets wide receiver Santonio Holmes, who missed a handful of voluntary practice sessions while out of the country on a good-will trip to a U.S. Air Force base in Germany, pulled himself out of practice Thursday because he felt he was being overworked.

Near the end of the two-hour workout, Holmes limped off the field and tossed his helmet, seemingly out of frustration. He spoke to receivers coach Sanjay Lal and also spent time with the trainer. Afterward, Holmes insisted he wasn't injured, but he still seemed bothered.

"I was talking to the coach, letting him understand it was too many reps today," Holmes said. "I've been gone for a while, so I can't be at full tempo like the rest of the guys and where they want us to be at."

Holmes said he was slated for 35 practice reps, but left after 20 or 25. The Jets wrapped up their OTA workouts, with a mandatory minicamp scheduled for next week.

The irony, of course, is that Holmes had to be pulled out of the Jets' final game, in the final minutes of the season-ending loss to the Miami Dolphins. Holmes was frustrated by his lack of involvement in the offense -- he had no receptions -- and complained in the huddle, nearly coming to blows with right tackle Wayne Hunter.

That was the seminal moment of the Jets' well-chronicled season of turmoil, much of which involved Holmes and quarterback Mark Sanchez.

After a tumultuous couple of months, the team is trying to rebuild its chemistry. Holmes took another positive step this week by declaring that he will attend Sanchez's "Jets West" passing camp in the coming weeks at the high school in Mission Viejo, Calif., that the quarterback attended.

Holmes was at "Jets West" in 2010, but skipped last year's camp because he was unsigned at the time. Even though he's not team captain anymore, Holmes feels he needs to be there because he still sees himself as a team leader.

"Being out there is going to give the young guys a sense of security, knowing we have our veteran, we have our leader here with us, who's going to help us and get us on the same page," Holmes said. "I think all of us doing the same thing at the same time will be a great chemistry builder."

Coach Rex Ryan has all but admitted he made a bad decision by making Holmes a captain. In fact, Ryan said he no longer will have team captains.

Holmes is the elder statesman of a young receiving corps, which includes a likely rookie starter, Stephen Hill, so he's trying to show the way.

But he admittedly still isn't in top shape.

"I'm at OTA No. 5," he said. "I've got lot of catching up to do for myself."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8021755/santonio-holmes-new-york-jets-ends-practice-early-felt-overused

This sounds eerily familiar. Why is it usually WRs?

Crash
06-07-2012, 03:47 PM
That's weak.

Pouncey was a no show the last 2 days, and he's allegedly 100%.

I think we should call him a cancer too.

feltdizz
06-07-2012, 03:55 PM
That's weak.

Pouncey was a no show the last 2 days, and he's allegedly 100%.

I think we should call him a cancer too.

You sure work hard at this... LOL.

Crash
06-07-2012, 03:57 PM
You sure work hard at this... LOL.

Apparently harder than Pouncey does.

I mean he's only going to be calling blocking assignments in an offense that's been changed 90% from the one he had for two years.

feltdizz
06-07-2012, 05:16 PM
I don't think being absent from OTA's is the same as throwning a helmet in frustration and quiting during reps but whatever makes you feel better about your hate, uh, errrr... I meant love for your team, errrrr ... Ben.

Crash
06-07-2012, 05:46 PM
I don't think being absent from OTA's is the same as throwning a helmet in frustration and quiting during reps but whatever makes you feel better about your hate, uh, errrr... I meant love for your team, errrrr ... Ben.

Holmes went to work. Where's Pouncey?

DukieBoy
06-07-2012, 06:43 PM
ESPN is reporting that Holmes backed out in the middle of practice because they were working him too hard. Holmes just got back from a good will mission in Europe and wasn't ready to go full-tilt, but ESPN was eating a bit or red meat over it.

Man, once you get a rep with these reporters, they dog the bad rep and put that ingredient into every story about a player. Farve was a golden boy with the media until he texted his junk and couldn.t bring himself to retire.

Crash
06-07-2012, 07:33 PM
Pittsburgh media are no better minus a select few. Gossip is the way to go now because that industry is declining at a rapid pace.

Slapstick
06-07-2012, 07:46 PM
Um, what?

Arians record at home as the OC of this team was an outstanding 4-1 Slap.

If that's not good enough, what is?????

Make an effort will you?

Um, what?

LeBeau's record at home as the DC of this team was also an outstanding 4-1 during that time, Crash.

If that's not good enough, what is???

Make an effort, will you?

RuthlessBurgher
06-07-2012, 08:16 PM
Holmes went to work. Where's Pouncey?

God's gift to quarterbacking skipped out on OTA's today, by the way.

Crash
06-07-2012, 08:40 PM
Um, what?

LeBeau's record at home as the DC of this team was also an outstanding 4-1 during that time, Crash.

If that's not good enough, what is???

Make an effort, will you?

What does that have to do with you bringing up not winning a home game in the 2011 playoffs as a reason Arians wasn't retained? You either A) Forgot they played IN Denver or B) Don't watch this team as much as you claim.

You can decide which and let us all know.

hawaiiansteel
06-07-2012, 10:00 PM
Santonio Holmes stages ‘mini-meltdown’ during OTAs

JUNE 7, 2012
by ZACK KELBERMAN

http://helmet2helmet.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/santonio-holmes.jpg

Here we go again.

In his first appearance since returning from Germany, where he spent the last two weeks on a USO trip, Santonio Holmes “staged a mini-meltdown” during the Jets’ final OTA practice on Thursday, ESPNNewYork.com reports.

Supposedly, a “disgusted” Holmes, who angrily tossed his helmet and exchanged words with receivers coach Sanjay Lal, pulled himself out of the nearly two-hour workout because he felt overworked.

“I was talking to the coach, letting him understand it was too many reps today,” Holmes said. “I’ve been gone for a while, so I can’t be at full tempo like the rest of the guys and where they want us to be at.”

“I’m at OTA No. 5. … I’ve got a lot of catching up to do for myself.”

Although not injured, Holmes was seen limping after taking somewhere between 20-25 reps. Unsurprisingly, coach Rex Ryan came to his defense, saying the veteran wideout simply did what’s best for himself.

“If he thinks he’d be stretching it to give five or 10 extra reps, you have to be smart about it,” Ryan said, adding, “If a guy thinks he’s tight … you don’t want a guy pulling (a muscle). He knows his body better than anybody.”

This, of course, is notable because it was just five months ago when Holmes and offensive lineman Wayne Hunter nearly came to blows in the Jets’ season-ending loss to the Dolphins, during which teammates accused Holmes of quitting on the team. That incident made public New York’s fractured locker room and sent Gang Green into a tailspin which they’ve just started recovering from.

Up to this point, Holmes has attempted to right the wrongs this offseason. He started by repairing his streaky relationship with quarterback Mark Sanchez, whom he reportedly blew off during offensive meetings last season. The two began their bonding by training in Orlando, and eventually worked their way back to New York, where they enjoyed some quality time together during a Knicks game. Just a few days ago, Holmes announced he will be joining Tim Tebow and a plethora of skill-position players at “Jets West,” a passing camp Sanchez coordinates.

Despite being on the up-and-up, however, Holmes’ true colors may have shown themselves here. It wouldn’t be a huge deal in any other market, but this is the Big Apple, and, as he knows by now, everything is dissected down to the tiniest detail.

This could — and probably will — blow over in the next few days, but Holmes needs to make sure nothing of the sort comes up again. Otherwise, the Jets are left with nothing but an expensive tiger whose stripes haven’t changed one iota.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/santonio_holmes_stages_mini_meltdown_during_otas/10965413?linksrc=home_rg_head_10965413

Slapstick
06-07-2012, 10:05 PM
What does that have to do with you bringing up not winning a home game in the 2011 playoffs as a reason Arians wasn't retained? You either A) Forgot they played IN Denver or B) Don't watch this team as much as you claim.

You can decide which and let us all know.

I didn't...

AR II made his desire to run more effectively known...you attempted to make the point that "Arians gave Art what he wanted"...I pointed out that Arians did not do this and, therefore, was not retained...

It isn't hard to follow...though now I see why you miss so much during games...

Crash
06-07-2012, 10:09 PM
I didn't...

AR II made his desire to run more effectively known...you attempted to make the point that "Arians gave Art what he wanted"...I pointed out that Arians did not do this and, therefore, was not retained

If the highest YPC in 10 SEASONS isn't good enough, what is in your opinion?

What's going to be the next excuse when LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme continues to suck?

hawaiiansteel
06-07-2012, 11:09 PM
God's gift to quarterbacking skipped out on OTA's today, by the way.


Ben is obviously a cancer.

Crash
06-07-2012, 11:12 PM
God's gift to quarterbacking skipped out on OTA's today, by the way.

Then who was wearing the #78 Starks jersey today who usually wears #7? Pete Gonzalez?

He was absent yesterday, the only day he missed.

Slapstick
06-07-2012, 11:21 PM
If the highest YPC in 10 SEASONS isn't good enough, what is in your opinion?

What's going to be the next excuse when LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme continues to suck?

I'm going to try this one last time and hope that I can get through:

LeBeau's defense allowed fewer points than any team in the NFL.The Steelers offense scored fewer points than TWENTY other teams in the NFL.

Now, you can say that LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks. I'm not going to argue with you about that because it's pointless to try.

But, the offense is the unit that has the most room for improvement...

Crash
06-07-2012, 11:47 PM
I'm going to try this one last time and hope that I can get through:

LeBeau's defense allowed fewer points than any team in the NFL.

And yet when it mattered? Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow lit them up. I don't really care that they can stop guys like Colt McCoy, Tyler Palko, and 50 year old Kerry Collins. Joe Flacco and Tebow struggled against most of the NFL.

Dick LeBeau was their bitch.

Flacco lit them up, Tebow lit them up, Curtis Painter went 80 yards to tie the game in the 4th.

The excuse used to be "well (Enter elite QB name here) does that to everybody"

What's sad now? Is that since 2009? They've been blowing 4th quarter leads because of their scheme to absolute garbage QBs as well as the elite ones.

And you are actually trying to DEFEND their 4th quarter defense?

Stat geek. Nothing more.

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2012, 12:49 AM
Then who was wearing the #78 Starks jersey today who usually wears #7? Pete Gonzalez?

He was absent yesterday, the only day he missed.

he actually didn't throw in 3 of the 8 OTAs, although he was standing next to Haley in two of them.

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/the-huddle/2011/07/31/roex-large.jpg

Crash
06-08-2012, 12:52 AM
That's what I posted. Tomlin told him to take the day off the first time he watched with Haley. No word on who called the second one. He doesn't throw a lot before mini camps. Never has. He'll have his usual "tired arm" days the first week of camp and then he'll be good to go.

ikestops85
06-08-2012, 10:18 AM
And yet when it mattered? Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow lit them up. I don't really care that they can stop guys like Colt McCoy, Tyler Palko, and 50 year old Kerry Collins. Joe Flacco and Tebow struggled against most of the NFL.

Dick LeBeau was their bitch.

Flacco lit them up, Tebow lit them up, Curtis Painter went 80 yards to tie the game in the 4th.

The excuse used to be "well (Enter elite QB name here) does that to everybody"

What's sad now? Is that since 2009? They've been blowing 4th quarter leads because of their scheme to absolute garbage QBs as well as the elite ones.

And you are actually trying to DEFEND their 4th quarter defense?

Stat geek. Nothing more.

Why do you only care about 25% of the game. Is it because our offense blows in the first half. Just wondering ;-)

Crash
06-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Why do you only care about 25% of the game. Is it because our offense blows in the first half. Just wondering ;-)

I care about the whole game. Not just the first 45 minutes like LeBeau.

It hasn't mattered, the defense blows 4th quarter leads in all instances. In games when the offense doesn't score points, in games that the offense has scored at least 20 points at the time the lead was blown.

The 4th quarter scheme stinks. And it will as long as Dick LeBeau continues to do the same, tired, predictable swap short gains for time philosophy that does not work.

ikestops85
06-08-2012, 11:56 AM
I care about the whole game. Not just the first 45 minutes like LeBeau.

It hasn't mattered, the defense blows 4th quarter leads in all instances. In games when the offense doesn't score points, in games that the offense has scored at least 20 points at the time the lead was blown.

The 4th quarter scheme stinks. And it will as long as Dick LeBeau continues to do the same, tired, predictable swap short gains for time philosophy that does not work.

So why don't you care that our offense blows in the first half of games? Why is it always a one score game in the 4th? Why doesn't the offense blow out inferior teams so we can turn the dogs loose in the second half? Why does Ben start out EVERY game throwing the ball high? don't you think he would learn after all the years he has played not to do that? Inquiring minds want to know.

Please don't mention the defense in your reply. I am only talking about the offense now. :rolleyes:

Crash
06-08-2012, 01:33 PM
Why is it always a one score game in the 4th?

A LOT of the time it's because right after the Steelers score? The defense comes back on the field and gives the points right back. Can't blow teams out when you are constantly swapping scores.


Why does Ben start out EVERY game throwing the ball high?

Not true. For the majority of his career Roethlisberger actually starts off games pretty well. 2006 and 2008 were exceptions, but he and his offense play pretty well in first quarters.

grotonsteel
06-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Not true. For the majority of his career Roethlisberger actually starts off games pretty well. 2006 and 2008 were exceptions, but he and his offense play pretty well in first quarters.




Problem with Steelers OC/HC mentality is they call the dogs off once they take a 10 point lead. Its Marty Ball time for Steelers. How many times we have complained why did BA change the playcalls. Why is he not doing what was working before? Its Run-Run-Pass playcalling.

I don't think Steelers will ever be a Top-3 scoring offense in NFL because of this Marty Ball. We see Tom brady throwing ball all around even after they are leading 30 points and 2 min remaining in 4thQ. Steelers will never i repeat never do that. I don't want them to do it but its another factor to consider with stats.

Slapstick
06-08-2012, 07:16 PM
And yet when it mattered? Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow lit them up. I don't really care that they can stop guys like Colt McCoy, Tyler Palko, and 50 year old Kerry Collins. Joe Flacco and Tebow struggled against most of the NFL.

Dick LeBeau was their bitch.

Flacco lit them up, Tebow lit them up, Curtis Painter went 80 yards to tie the game in the 4th.

The excuse used to be "well (Enter elite QB name here) does that to everybody"

What's sad now? Is that since 2009? They've been blowing 4th quarter leads because of their scheme to absolute garbage QBs as well as the elite ones.

And you are actually trying to DEFEND their 4th quarter defense?

Stat geek. Nothing more.

I know that you're a stat geek, but that's not important right now...

I am talking about scoring points.

I am not referring to yards, YpC, YpA, Completion %, QB Rating or even turnovers.

I am referring to the direct correlation between scoring points and winning football games.

Over the course of an entire 16 game season composed of 60 minute football games, the Pittsburgh Steelers defense allowed the fewest points in the NFL. Fact.

You want to rip on the Steelers' D for a poor performance against the Houton Texans where they gave up 17 points while conveniently overlooking the fact that the offense scored only 10. 10!!!!

You tell me that the Steelers defense didn't turn the ball over because that leads to cheap points for the offense. Well, the offense had no problem turning the ball over, but somehow, that didn't lead to huge quantities of cheap points for opposing team, because the Steelers finished first in scoring defense.

You want to tell me that all of the Steelers' problems are because of Dick LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme...

I think that nobody would care too much about the 4th quarter scheme if the offense played like an elite offense with the HoF franchise QB...last year, they did not.

Period.

You want to harp on LeBeau's 4th quarter defense and that's fine...but, to me, that's like crying about your broken leg (defense) when you are suffering from pancreatic cancer (offense)...

That's like you telling me that "Renegade" shouldn't be played at Steelers games because you don't like the way that Tommy Shaw tried to use "home", "alone" and "long" as rhyming words in the intro...so, we should really be playing Justin Beiber's "Never Say Never" to fire up the crowd instead...

Are there problems with LeBeau's 4th quarter D? Sure...

But, if the offense performed better than 21st in the league, which they should with a $15 million QB and two Pro Bowl WRs, the 4th Q D wouldn't seem so terrible...it shouldn't always have to be a one score game in the 4th...

Here's hoping that the successful offensive coordinator and division winning HC that you refer to as "the golf coach" can help to solve that problem...

Because, while you are so bullheaded as to believe that he shouldn't be able to tell Ben how to play ball, you overlook the possibility that he may be right.

Another potential HoF QB, Kurt Warner, seems to think so...

Crash
06-08-2012, 07:56 PM
I know that you're a stat geek, but that's not important right now...

Grow up and spare me the parsing of words Slap. Because when you do that? You got NOTHING to add to the discussion.


Well, the offense had no problem turning the ball over, but somehow, that didn't lead to huge quantities of cheap points for opposing team

Now I know you don't watch this team.


But, if the offense performed better than 21st in the league, which they should with a $15 million QB and two Pro Bowl WRs, the 4th Q D wouldn't seem so terrible...it shouldn't always have to be a one score game in the 4th...

So when the offense scores to go up in the 4th and then the defense gives it back, that's the offenses fault.

Got it.

We had 28 turnovers as a team in 2011. That's less than two per game for an entire season. Turnovers on offense ain't the problem.


Here's hoping that the successful offensive coordinator and division winning HC that you refer to as "the golf coach" can help to solve that problem...

Did LeBeau quit? No? Then the problem will never go away. It hasn't mattered who the OC is since he came back. Dick LeBeau's defense will blow 4th quarter leads.

Slapstick
06-08-2012, 11:02 PM
Grow up and spare me the parsing of words Slap. Because when you do that? You got NOTHING to add to the discussion.

And yet, you respond to my every post...your actions speak much louder than my "parsed" words...

It's quite flattering, actually, how much you value what I add to the discussion...




So when the offense scores to go up in the 4th and then the defense gives it back, that's the offenses fault.

Got it.


So, why did the offense have to wait until the fourth quarter to score? Since, according to you, LeBeau's D plays well for the first three quarters, you would think that's a golden opportunity..

Crash
06-08-2012, 11:08 PM
So, why did the offense have to wait until the fourth quarter to score?

Who said they did? Not I.

LeBeau's team also has a tendency to give up points on opening drives of games. I believe it was 6 times in 2011. They also give up points after the offense scores.

I'll tell you right now, if we lose in week one in Denver? LeBeau's defense will give up a TD on their first possession of the season, as well as give up points following a Steelers touchdown. It's been the same issues for YEARS.

Our "defense" is our offense keeping the ball and LeBeau's defense off the field.

Eich
06-12-2012, 01:21 PM
Who said they did? Not I.

LeBeau's team also has a tendency to give up points on opening drives of games. I believe it was 6 times in 2011. They also give up points after the offense scores.

I'll tell you right now, if we lose in week one in Denver? LeBeau's defense will give up a TD on their first possession of the season, as well as give up points following a Steelers touchdown. It's been the same issues for YEARS.

Our "defense" is our offense keeping the ball and LeBeau's defense off the field. [/COLOR]

How does our offense keep the ball long enough to allow the defense to be #1 in points allowed, yet they themselves can only reach 21st in points scored?

Everyone seems to universally agree that the league wants more points scored and has implemented rules that benefit the offense and specifically the passing game. Well, what happens when we take the lead in the 4th quarter? The other team comes out PASSING, where the rules favor them. You make it sound like the Steelers defense is the only defense in the league that allows 4th quarter come-backs?

The only point I've seen you make that I agree with is that we shouldn't be content with a 7 point lead, trying to protect it by milking the clock with turtle ball. The goal should be to score as many points as possible for the entire game. Keep doing what's working.

In the end, BOTH the offense AND the defense need to be improved. But when you look at the unit that's number 1 in points allowed vs. the unit that's number 21 in points scored, I think it's obvious where the majority of the changes this year had to be focused.

And until you actually witness "Ben handing off all day", then why make all the fuss about any emphasis on the run game? It would be absurd for Haley and Tomlin to all of the sudden put Ben into manager-mode. And both have specifically said that they intend to take advantage of his talents.

So calm down and enjoy the ride. As Steelers fans, we have it better than any other team in the league.

Crash
06-12-2012, 01:28 PM
How does our offense keep the ball long enough to allow the defense to be #1 in points allowed, yet they themselves can only reach 21st in points scored?

Because when you are 30th in starting field position? You can get three first downs on one series, keep the ball, and still end up punting. You don't score, but you move the ball and keep the defense off the field.

2nd in the league in TOP last season.

grotonsteel
06-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Because when you are 30th in starting field position? You can get three first downs on one series, keep the ball, and still end up punting. You don't score, but you move the ball and keep the defense off the field.

2nd in the league in TOP last season. [/COLOR]

+1

Only GB had better TOP by few seconds i believe.

I read somewhere Steelers had least amount of offensive plays because of the field position. Less plays less scoring oppurtunities.