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View Full Version : Kordell Retires as a Steeler



phillyesq
05-30-2012, 05:07 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/30/kordell-stewart-gets-closure-retires-as-a-steeler/#comment

I'm not quite sure what to make of this.

squidkid
05-30-2012, 05:54 PM
could you image how effective korkie would have been if he just would have realized a qb he was not and mastered the 'slash role'.
he actually could have brought a dimension to the game that hadnt been seen before and would have been near impossible to defend.
only if.

Chadman
05-30-2012, 06:00 PM
Always liked Kordell & thought he was given some rough treatment in his time here. Biggest critisism of Kordell was that he was, perhaps, just a little too sensitive to the critics & didn't always seem to overcome the things said about him. Chadman will say that while his time as our starting QB was at times frustrating, he was certainly an exciting player & always made you think that maybe...just maybe...he'd do something a bit special.

Notleadpoisoned
05-30-2012, 07:19 PM
We could have had Pitt's Curtis Martin with that pick. Oh well.

steelblood
05-30-2012, 08:09 PM
could you image how effective korkie would have been if he just would have realized a qb he was not and mastered the 'slash role'.
he actually could have brought a dimension to the game that hadnt been seen before and would have been near impossible to defend.
only if.

Kordell could have been an excellent WR and KR if he would have chosen that route. As a RB or a QB, average pro at best.

bostonsteeler
05-30-2012, 08:11 PM
I always did like Korkie. I remember a few games where he was superman. The game against the ravens in 2001 was one. The TD to Bobby Shaw from inside the 10 was one of the best I've seen by anyone.

For all his bad moments, he had many good ones. Good luck, mister; we wish you the best wherever life takes you.

Crash
05-30-2012, 08:19 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/30/kordell-stewart-gets-closure-retires-as-a-steeler/#comment

I'm not quite sure what to make of this.

Embarrassing would be a good start.

flippy
05-30-2012, 10:20 PM
It's a shame we couldn't have kept Chan with him for his career. Too many OCs tried to turn him into something he wasn't rather than taking advantage of his strengths.

Like him or hate him, his years in Pittsburgh were some of the most exciting years in Pittsburgh even though he never won the big one. I remember having so much anticipation every week Kordell laced em up wondering what he was going to do that would be spectacular.

Even though he frustrated the bejeezus out of me, he'll always be a legend of the game.

Without Slash, there probably wouldn't be a Cam Newton or RGIII. He's changed the game and I think RGIII is the athlete at QB that finally has the accuracy needed for the position to be successful.

Kordell could have been one the greats of all time if he woulda picked WR as his position.

Cowher woulda probably been the greatest coach of all time if Kordell played WR. :)

Crash
05-30-2012, 10:58 PM
Too many OCs tried to turn him into something he wasn't rather than taking advantage of his strengths.

You're right. They put him behind center.

Btw, the one year he had Chan as his OC Korkie led the AFC in picks.

QBs have to throw the ball in this league to win.

He couldn't.

Crash
05-30-2012, 10:59 PM
Kordell changed the game? Good God. :Blah

Flasteel
05-30-2012, 11:22 PM
Always liked Kordell & thought he was given some rough treatment in his time here. Biggest critisism of Kordell was that he was, perhaps, just a little too sensitive to the critics & didn't always seem to overcome the things said about him. Chadman will say that while his time as our starting QB was at times frustrating, he was certainly an exciting player & always made you think that maybe...just maybe...he'd do something a bit special.

I was at that game in Tampa when he cried and I spoke to him briefly in the locker afterwards. The dude was simply dejected. I think he took things too hard as well. I also agree that he was saddled with a couple of bad OC's and never had the type of continuity I think he [in particular] needed. Despite those "flaws" Kordell will always be one of my favorite players.

Crash
05-30-2012, 11:48 PM
Saddled? So I guess it was another Kordell who sat in on interviews in 1998 and endorsed Sherman's hiring?

15 years later and nothing has changed: Kordell (nor his minions) has never accepted blame for his failures.

Chadman
05-31-2012, 12:07 AM
Geez Crash...nice way of avoiding the truth. Did you read the interview with Kordell? He acknowledged he had struggles. He acknowledged he had tough times. And every post in here that is 'favourable' to Kordell also mentions frustration, and inconsistancy.

Is it FALSE that he had an unsettled first few years in the NFL in regards to changing OC's? Can there be NO blame laid in that direction? Or were Kordell's struggles all on Kordell? If that's the case- obviously Ben's struggles are all on Ben right? Can't blame the coaching, the OL etc.

Fair's fair after all.

Crash
05-31-2012, 12:54 AM
Geez Crash...nice way of avoiding the truth. Did you read the interview with Kordell? He acknowledged he had struggles. He acknowledged he had tough times. And every post in here that is 'favourable' to Kordell also mentions frustration, and inconsistancy.

Is it FALSE that he had an unsettled first few years in the NFL in regards to changing OC's? Can there be NO blame laid in that direction? Or were Kordell's struggles all on Kordell? If that's the case- obviously Ben's struggles are all on Ben right? Can't blame the coaching, the OL etc.

Fair's fair after all.

Um, Ben has won 2 rings with 2 different head coaches and 2 different OCs. So Ben went through the same issues Kordell did, and still won.

Kordell admitted struggles but what he didn't do, what he has NEVER done, is accept responsibility for them.

Most of the offense's struggles last season were because we ran the ball on 58% on first down, and 65% on first down in the red zone.

What did Ben do? Not hand off properly? And the sad part? Haley's offense if you are to believe Ben, believe Pouncey, Colon, etc is that they are going to run MORE.

Chadman
05-31-2012, 01:30 AM
Um, Ben has won 2 rings with 2 different head coaches and 2 different OCs. So Ben went through the same issues Kordell did, and still won.

Kordell admitted struggles but what he didn't do, what he has NEVER done, is accept responsibility for them.

Most of the offense's struggles last season were because we ran the ball on 58% on first down, and 65% on first down in the red zone.

What did Ben do? Not hand off properly? And the sad part? Haley's offense if you are to believe Ben, believe Pouncey, Colon, etc is that they are going to run MORE.

Fair dinkum Crash- so Kordell accepts he struggled, but doesn't 'accept responsibility' that he struggled?

You know- in everything he said, Chadman must have missed the bit where he said "Coach Cowher & the Steelers never helped me succeed. It's not my fault I had struggles".

Using your theory that the offences problem last season was the running game & not Ben, the players 'responsible' for the failures should 'accept responsibility'- are we to expect Rashard Mendenhall's public announcement that the Steelers could run effectively because he sucked?

Flasteel
05-31-2012, 06:30 AM
Saddled? So I guess it was another Kordell who sat in on interviews in 1998 and endorsed Sherman's hiring?

15 years later and nothing has changed: Kordell (nor his minions) has never accepted blame for his failures.

Yeah...saddled.

10 years of dealing with you on Steeler forums and nothing has changed. Douchebag of epic proportions.

flippy
05-31-2012, 08:05 AM
Um, Ben has won 2 rings with 2 different head coaches and 2 different OCs. So Ben went through the same issues Kordell did, and still won.

Kordell admitted struggles but what he didn't do, what he has NEVER done, is accept responsibility for them.

Most of the offense's struggles last season were because we ran the ball on 58% on first down, and 65% on first down in the red zone.

What did Ben do? Not hand off properly? And the sad part? Haley's offense if you are to believe Ben, believe Pouncey, Colon, etc is that they are going to run MORE.

Along these lines, you could make the case that Kordell hasn't accepted responsibility for his on field issues like Ben hasn't accepted responsibility for his off field issues.

But I'm not going there.

I just think Kordell was what he was. He had his plusses and minuses. He did the best he could for us and I appreciate that. Good memories.

Oviedo
05-31-2012, 08:09 AM
Kordell's biggest failing was that he wanted too much to prove he was a traditional pocket QB instead of embracing what made him special. Once the "slash" went away he just became another decent college QB trying to make it in the NFL.

What he could do with his legs to set up his arm is what made him special. It was never about his arm and that fact got lost the last couple of years here.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 08:51 AM
I was at that game in Tampa when he cried and I spoke to him briefly in the locker afterwards. The dude was simply dejected. I think he took things too hard as well. I also agree that he was saddled with a couple of bad OC's and never had the type of continuity I think he [in particular] needed. Despite those "flaws" Kordell will always be one of my favorite players.

I agree.... seemed like every 2 years he had a new OC.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 08:52 AM
Saddled? So I guess it was another Kordell who sat in on interviews in 1998 and endorsed Sherman's hiring?

15 years later and nothing has changed: Kordell (nor his minions) has never accepted blame for his failures.

You are hilarious...

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 08:53 AM
Along these lines, you could make the case that Kordell hasn't accepted responsibility for his on field issues like Ben hasn't accepted responsibility for his off field issues.

But I'm not going there.

I just think Kordell was what he was. He had his plusses and minuses. He did the best he could for us and I appreciate that. Good memories.

:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap

BradshawsHairdresser
05-31-2012, 09:14 AM
I lay a lot of the blame for the whole Kordell saga on Coach Cowher. If he had left Kordell at WR, using him occasionally in the "slash" role, I think Kordell could have been an extremely effective weapon, and we would all look back with fondness for his contributions to the team. Cowher was the one who inserted Kordell as starting, full-time QB (when it was obvious he wasn't ready for the job), and Cowher was the one who kept Kordell as his QB (long after it was painfully obvious that he shouldn't stay at QB). Also, Cowher allowed his OCs to try to turn Kordell into a pocket passer, which even 90% of fans could tell he would never be.

You can't really blame a player for wanting to play QB when he played QB in college, and then he gets to the pros, and his head coach is telling him he is starting QB material. Cowher fed Kordell's delusions. Too bad...I really believe that with a competent QB, the Steelers could have gone to another Super Bowl or two during that time period...

BTW, if Cowher had had his way, we never would have drafted Ben. For some reason, when it came to the QB position, Bill just had a tough time "getting" it. When talking about Cowher's HOF chances, I would think that his handling of the QB position might be one strike against him.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:04 AM
Yeah...saddled.

10 years of dealing with you on Steeler forums and nothing has changed. Douchebag of epic proportions.

Then don't read it.

I did notice you ignored the part about Kordell and Sherman.

We both know why.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:10 AM
Along these lines, you could make the case that Kordell hasn't accepted responsibility for his on field issues like Ben hasn't accepted responsibility for his off field issues

So Ben didn't say in 2010 that he needed to change? That he needed to treat people off the field better and with more respect?

He didn't say he needed to treat media better because they are just doing their jobs?

Kordell blames every on the field failure he had on Ray Sherman, on Kevin Gilbride, and he claimed THIS PAST SEASON, that he didn't get any more chances in the NFL after 2003 because the NFL is racist.

He's delusional and always has been.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:12 AM
You are hilarious...

Actually what I am, is right.

That's why fans turned on Kordell. He'd play a bad game and it was "We".

They'd win a game, and it was "I".

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 11:36 AM
Then don't read it.

I did notice you ignored the part about Kordell and Sherman.

We both know why.

No, we don't...

Please, enlighten us....

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:41 AM
No, we don't...

Please, enlighten us....

Fla like Kordell, doesn't want to admit that Kordell helped Sherman get his job. If Sherman failed Kordell, Kordell failed himself when he endorsed his hiring.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 12:06 PM
Fla like Kordell, doesn't want to admit that Kordell helped Sherman get his job. If Sherman failed Kordell, Kordell failed himself when he endorsed his hiring.

20/20 hindsight...

Crash
05-31-2012, 12:22 PM
20/20 hindsight...

That's wonderful. The point is Kordell and his band of sheep don't even ADMIT to his role in getting Sherman that job.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 12:27 PM
That's wonderful. The point is Kordell and his band of sheep don't even ADMIT to his role in getting Sherman that job.

So what? Assuming that you are right, what is accomplished?

Crash
05-31-2012, 12:29 PM
So what? Assuming that you are right, what is accomplished?

For Kordell? It's called acting like a man and accept blame for his failures.

He doesn't. He's too busy calling the NFL racist on ESPN TV.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 12:37 PM
For Kordell? It's called acting like a man and accept blame for his failures.


Okay, but what does it accomplish? Nothing...

flippy
05-31-2012, 12:54 PM
So Ben didn't say in 2010 that he needed to change? That he needed to treat people off the field better and with more respect?

He didn't say he needed to treat media better because they are just doing their jobs?

Kordell blames every on the field failure he had on Ray Sherman, on Kevin Gilbride, and he claimed THIS PAST SEASON, that he didn't get any more chances in the NFL after 2003 because the NFL is racist.

He's delusional and always has been.

Ben's lucky to still be a Steeler after his off field issues. I'm still surprised to this day the Rooney's didn't trade him. Ben's always said the perfect things from day 1. But his actions haven't always backed up his words.

But none of this stuff is significant in the grand scheme. You have to be a little reckless/violent to make it in this crazy league. I don't expect a guy that gets paid to be a beast on the field to be a choirboy off it. The personality needed to be successful in this game works against someone off the field. It's just the nature of any competitive endeavor - sports, business, life.

The best CEOs in America are narcissists. Why should I expect our $100M QB to be any different. And the best narcissists always say the right things.

SteelCrazy
05-31-2012, 01:08 PM
Kordell was better than Ben will ever be....

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:09 PM
If anything this shows how soft the organization has become under II's leadership.

The Dan Rooney of 25 years ago would have told him: "You called my hometown, this fan base racist. Now you want to "retire" a Steeler? Hit the bricks"

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 01:31 PM
Saddled? So I guess it was another Kordell who sat in on interviews in 1998 and endorsed Sherman's hiring?

15 years later and nothing has changed: Kordell (nor his minions) has never accepted blame for his failures.

What?!?! A quarterback who supported an incoming offensive coordinator?!?!

You should tell Kordell that if he wants to be a team player and a leader, he should not support new coaches...he should whine in the media for a month because the new O.C. hasn't called him yet, then bitch&moan some more about how difficult it is to learn the new terminology while all of the other players gush about how much they like the new offense.

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:41 PM
What?!?! A quarterback who supported an incoming offensive coordinator?!?!

No no, get it right, Kordell HELPED SHERMAN get the job.

Then when he failed, rather than accept blame, he threw Sherman under the bus and acted like he was force fed to him (Like Haley is to Ben btw).

Ben never whined about Haley not calling him. If anything Ben DEFENDED Haley because A) They weren't allowed to talk football and B) Haley was re-locating his family.

Ben was asked YESTERDAY who initiated the first contact (Haley called Ben btw), and rather than say he called me, Ben took the high road and claimed he "didn't remember because it was so long ago".

Ben hasn't bitched once. Don't cut Ben off at the knees to make Kordell look taller.

SteelCrazy
05-31-2012, 02:32 PM
You would follow Ben into a bathroom stall. Ive never seen such a man crush in all my life. You speak of Ben like you know him and defend him like he pays you. He's just a man who plays ball really well. Kordell was an imperfect QB, but an excellent athlete. If Kordell could have embraced the slash role the Steelers may have won another 1 or 2 SB's. But, he didnt and we didnt. Life is moving on however and now we have Ben who has helped bring us two more SB's.
Ben is way better than Kordell at the QB pos. so I dont think you'll get an arguement there. Just let Slash have one more day. You'll love yourself in the morning.

Crash
05-31-2012, 02:37 PM
Slash deserves nothing. If Art II had any balls he would have told him to vamoose and brought up the fact that he called the city racist.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 02:43 PM
Slash deserves nothing. If Art II had any balls he would have told him to vamoose and brought up the fact that he called the city racist.

Maybe Art II took the high road...

Is there anything wrong with taking the high road?


Ben took the high road...

Well, now there can't possiblybe anything wrong with it...unless Ben is the only one allowed to do so...

Crash
05-31-2012, 02:48 PM
Maybe Art II took the high road...

Is there anything wrong with taking the high road?

Kordell is no longer Art's employee. No high road to take.

Kordell insulted the same fan base Art claims he cares about. And allowing this ungrateful moron to retire a Steeler after he did it proves just how clueless Art really is.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 02:59 PM
Ben never whined about Haley not calling him. If anything Ben DEFENDED Haley because A) They weren't allowed to talk football and B) Haley was re-locating his family.

Ben was asked YESTERDAY who initiated the first contact (Haley called Ben btw), and rather than say he called me, Ben took the high road and claimed he "didn't remember because it was so long ago".

Ben hasn't bitched once. Don't cut Ben off at the knees to make Kordell look taller.

IF Haley called Ben and initiated first contact why would Ben take the high road and say he didn't remember?

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 03:00 PM
IMO the high road is CALLING the freaking OC and initiating first contact.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 03:01 PM
Kordell is no longer Art's employee. No high road to take.

Kordell insulted the same fan base Art claims he cares about. And allowing this ungrateful moron to retire a Steeler after he did it proves just how clueless Art really is.

Kordell is a former employee who asked a favor of the organization...

Ummm...Art II took the high road...

Truly taking the high road is being kind when you have nothing to gain...in that respect, Ben didn't take the high road, he just decided not to make waves in his workplace...

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 03:02 PM
IF Haley called Ben and initiated first contact why would Ben take the high road and say he didn't remember?

Perhaps "high road" = "CYA"?

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:06 PM
IF Haley called Ben and initiated first contact why would Ben take the high road and say he didn't remember?

Because if he mentions that Haley calls him? People who twist everything that he says anyway will have a field day with it.

Starkey cast the line twice during that interview yesterday, and twice Ben didn't take the bait.

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:07 PM
IMO the high road is CALLING the freaking OC and initiating first contact.

Not his place. It's Haley's place.

Just like it was Ben's place to call DeCastro and welcome him to the team. Just as he did when he met Heath Miller the first day he walked into the offices after he was drafted in 2005.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 03:11 PM
Not his place. It's Haley's place.

So, he didn't take the high road...

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:18 PM
So, he didn't take the high road...

No need. He went about his business.

According to the PG however, Haley was already playing "mind games" with his new employers franchise player.

Nice huh?

He's a whack job.

Djfan
05-31-2012, 03:20 PM
If I can interrupt this melodrama for a moment to discuss the topic.....

I liked the guy, but was upset when he put the kabosh on the "Slash" role. It was his mark in this league, and he excelled at it. He only needed to stay there and we would have been an offense to match the defense we had then.

Oh well, thanks Kordell. It was a fun ride.

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:22 PM
About as fun as a trip to the dentist.

Flasteel
05-31-2012, 03:46 PM
Then don't read it.

I did notice you ignored the part about Kordell and Sherman.

We both know why.

I didn't ignore it, I just didn't feel your statement had any relevance to the discussion at hand. First of all, you have zero idea how much say Kordell had in hiring Ray Sherman. My first thought is that he would have very little say in that decision...not exactly how Bill Cowher operated. Throw a link out there and show us and then maybe I might believe that. Secondly, even if he did have some say, or simply supported the move...so what? Have you never made a decision that turned out to be a poor one?

Often times, there is no logic to your thinking Crash. You continually distort facts and basically invent stuff to fit your personal agendas.

SteelCrazy
05-31-2012, 03:53 PM
I didn't ignore it, I just didn't feel your statement had any relevance to the discussion at hand. First of all, you have zero idea how much say Kordell had in hiring Ray Sherman. My first thought is that he would have very little say in that decision...not exactly how Bill Cowher operated. Throw a link out there and show us and then maybe I might believe that. Secondly, even if he did have some say, or simply supported the move...so what? Have you never made a decision that turned out to be a poor one?


Often times, there is no logic to your thinking Crash. You continually distort facts and basically invent stuff to fit your personal agendas.

MANCRUSH is the word, MANCRUSH! Makes me sick. May very well be a stalker.....

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:55 PM
I didn't ignore it, I just didn't feel your statement had any relevance to the discussion at hand. First of all, you have zero idea how much say Kordell had in hiring Ray Sherman. My first thought is that he would have very little say in that decision...not exactly how Bill Cowher operated.

Kordell sat in on the interviews and endorsed Sherman before he was hired.


Have you never made a decision that turned out to be a poor one?

Sure, but unlike Kordell I won't act like I didn't have a say in the matter when things go sour.

The way he threw Sherman under the bus after 1998 was a disgrace.

FACT!

Flasteel
05-31-2012, 04:08 PM
Kordell sat in on the interviews and endorsed Sherman before he was hired.


[/COLOR]
Sure, but unlike Kordell I won't act like I didn't have a say in the matter when things go sour.

The way he threw Sherman under the bus after 1998 was a disgrace.

FACT!

The only disgraceful thing was the ofense that Sherman put on the field that year. I don't remember Kordell saying anything overtly negative about Sherman. It's been a long time, but my recollection was that he expressed only frustration. The media were assaulting the players each week with questions about Sherman and the offense. After that game I actually got into a heated verbal argument with Mike Tomczak about the offense (had to be separated by staff) because he didn't want to hear the questions anymore.

SteelCrazy
05-31-2012, 04:09 PM
Ben is being a Big baby. Speaking of he Starky interview, Ben said that we'll be running the ball a lot more so the FANS will get their wish. Also said he is reverting back to his rookie year style of play....if the #1 receiver isnt open he'll be running the ball.

Crash
05-31-2012, 04:13 PM
Ben is being a Big baby. Speaking of he Starky interview, Ben said that we'll be running the ball a lot more so the FANS will get their wish. Also said he is reverting back to his rookie year style of play....if the #1 receiver isnt open he'll be running the ball.

Lip service, he said the same thing about scrambling 2 weeks ago. But like I say, unlike others, Ben's working at learning the new offense.

Ben as well as Pouncey, Redman, and Colon, have all said they will be running more.

And he's right, that's what fans and ownership want.

Now they can all be happy.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 04:17 PM
Lip service, he said the same thing about scrambling 2 weeks ago. But like I say, unlike others, Ben's working at learning the new offense.

If you disagree, it's lip service...if you agree it's gospel...got it.


Ben as well as Pouncey, Redman, and Colon, have all said they will be running more.

Lip service. Wow...cool...Everything I don't agree with, I'll just call it "lip service" and pretend it never happened...that was easy! :p

Crash
05-31-2012, 04:21 PM
If you disagree, it's lip service...if you agree it's gospel...got it.



Lip service. Wow...cool...Everything I don't agree with, I'll just call it "lip service" and pretend it never happened...that was easy! :p

If they weren't going to run the ball why create a starting job for DJ?

He's not going to be out there for his pass catching abilities.

I expect the same run pass ratio on first down, and slightly less pass on 2nd down than in 2011.

phillyesq
05-31-2012, 04:22 PM
If I can interrupt this melodrama for a moment to discuss the topic.....

I liked the guy, but was upset when he put the kabosh on the "Slash" role. It was his mark in this league, and he excelled at it. He only needed to stay there and we would have been an offense to match the defense we had then.

Oh well, thanks Kordell. It was a fun ride.

How dare you try to comment on the topic at hand??? Don't you know that every thread here merely exists to allow crash to rant against Haley and ARII and/or profess his man love for Ben?

DJ, I agree with you. I really liked Kordell in the slash role. He was an exciting and a lot of fun to watch, plus he was actually a very good receiver.

I met Kordell once. He was walking out of Three Rivers and I happened to be driving by. He signed an autograph for me, as did, if I remember correctly, James Parrish and Tim Lester.

As much as I loved watching him in the Slash role, I did not like seeing him as a QB. His arm was strong but wildly innacurrate. I understand his personal amibtions, but ultimately, the team (and probably Kordell himself) would have been better served with him as a slash or a full time WR.

His recent comments about not getting a fair shake as a QB were quite irksome. Having a different OC almost yearly couldn't have helped, but the bottom line was he did succeed here or elsewhere.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 04:27 PM
I just wish Kordell would have played in Slash role only. If Neil O Donnell could have stayed for few years and Kordell at Slash role i think that 90s team could have been something.

Crash
05-31-2012, 04:28 PM
Yep. No Neil cost them the AFC in 1996 and 1997.

aggiebones
05-31-2012, 05:12 PM
Gee, someone else Crash doesn't like, so he overly slams him. Dude was athletic and talented, just not enough to win a SB. Neither were about 10 other QBs after Bradshaw. So what. Seemed affable and had an edge. Wanted to excel at QB and missed the mark and could have done better as a WR. Sheet happens. No reason to slander his contributions. He was above average for Steeler QBs. That's pretty good in the grand scheme of this board.

But keep chattering Crash...it never gets old from you. :(

Crash
05-31-2012, 05:40 PM
Dude was athletic and talented, just not enough to win a SB

As a QB he sucked. His career was a failure. The worst era of Steelers football since the 1980's.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 06:23 PM
As a QB he sucked. His career was a failure. The worst era of Steelers football since the 1980's.

The 90's was the worst era of Steelers football since the 80's? Those are pretty big words, considering that there were so many other eras in between to choose from. :lol:

Crash
05-31-2012, 06:26 PM
Kordell spent more times out of the playoffs than in them. And he was benched for guys like Mike Tomczak and Tommy Maddox, and lost an "open competition" to something called Kent Graham.

That's awful. Pathetic. And sad.

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 07:15 PM
Pittsburgh Abuzz About Cowher Kiss

By ALAN ROBINSON
AP Sports Writer

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Pittsburgh Steelers fans usually talk about the ``Bus'' -- running back Jerome Bettis. This week, they're all abuzz about the ``Buss'' -- coach Bill Cowher's sideline smooch of Kordell Stewart.

After Stewart scored on a 74-yard touchdown run Sunday in Baltimore, he collided shoulder-to-shoulder with Cowher, the kind of respectful hit that players often exchange, and hugged his coach.

As the two embraced for a few seconds, Cowher leaned over and gave his first-year starting quarterback a fatherly like kiss on the cheek.

The kiss has since been the talk of Pittsburgh, as the fans try to imagine a hard-edge coach such as the Jets' Bill Parcells celebrating a big comeback by surprising Neil O'Donnell with a peck on the cheek.

``I'm an emotional guy. It's an emotional game,'' Cowher said Tuesday. ``What can I say? ... The things I do during the game, I don't think about them. I get caught up in a love of the game.''

Maybe Cowher was trying to kiss and make up with his players; two weeks before, he screamed unmercifully and sprayed spittle at punter Josh Miller for failing to keep two short punts out of the end zone.

``I think we've got a close football team,'' Cowher said. ``The players have a great respect for one another and there is a lot of unselfishness. I think this team drew close in the second half in Jacksonville (on Sept. 22, when the Steelers rallied before losing 30-21) ... this team has dealt with some obstacles.''

http://old.post-gazette.com/steelers/steelers_kiss.asp

Crash
05-31-2012, 07:18 PM
No big deal. He kissed Neil after they beat the Colts in the AFC title game.

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 07:21 PM
No big deal. He kissed Neil after they beat the Colts in the AFC title game.

yeah, and I remember Cowher and Joey Porter kissing too...

http://www.outsports.com/nfl/cowherkissfrontx.jpg

Crash
05-31-2012, 07:27 PM
I think Neil actually kissed Cowher.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 08:23 PM
Kordell spent more times out of the playoffs than in them. And he was benched for guys like Mike Tomczak and Tommy Maddox, and lost an "open competition" to something called Kent Graham.

That's awful. Pathetic. And sad.


Dude.... why are you so negative? Is it a racial thing? are you so in love with Ben you don't hane any room for another Steeler?

Crash
05-31-2012, 08:25 PM
Dude.... why are you so negative? Is it a racial thing? are you so in love with Ben you don't hane any room for another Steeler?

Listing FACTS about Kordell isn't negative.

You also have it wrong, it was KORDELL who proclaimed the city of Pittsburgh racist.

Then he comes groveling back for a day of kissing his ass.

Which is even MORE pathetic.

fordfixer
05-31-2012, 09:20 PM
Listing FACTS about Kordell isn't negative.

You also have it wrong, it was KORDELL who proclaimed the city of Pittsburgh racist.

Then he comes groveling back for a day of kissing his ass.


Which is even MORE pathetic.


So your not denying the racial thing?

Crash
05-31-2012, 09:23 PM
So your not denying the racial thing?

Accusing me of racism is as laughable as those who over value Kordell's ability and his Steelers career.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 09:28 PM
If they weren't going to run the ball why create a starting job for DJ?

Who said that DJ would be starting? Several sources I read stated that DJ was making a position switch to FB. That isn't the same thing as starting.

If the Steelers start the game with 3WRs or 2TEs, he won't be starting...

NorthCoast
05-31-2012, 09:55 PM
....yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn..... .......

Chadman
05-31-2012, 10:14 PM
Can understand not liking a player, or feeling they were not as good as advertised. That's normal for any fan.

What Crash does, is take the extremist view of everything in order to rile up the board. Kordell Stewart. Hines Ward. Ben. ARE. Antonio Bryant. Cowher.

It's the same argument with different words.

flippy
05-31-2012, 10:23 PM
Not his place. It's Haley's place.



Just like it's not Ben's place to design the offense. It's Haley's place :)

flippy
05-31-2012, 10:26 PM
Maybe Art II took the high road...


Maybe Art II agreed with him.

Crash
05-31-2012, 10:28 PM
Just like it's not Ben's place to design the offense. It's Haley's place :)

Fine, but to not have ANY input? That's wrong and ridiculous. Especially with the success he's had as a player.

If the FO wants to play games with Ben and send him "messages" after 8 years of mostly success? Then it's time to cut bait and send him on his way. Because it seems to me based on what's transpiring? If they had the cap means to do so? They would.

flippy
05-31-2012, 10:47 PM
Fine, but to not have ANY input? That's wrong and ridiculous. Especially with the success he's had as a player.

If the FO wants to play games with Ben and send him "messages" after 8 years of mostly success? Then it's time to cut bait and send him on his way. Because it seems to me based on what's transpiring? If they had the cap means to do so? They would.

I was just joking around with that comment. :) I think we all think it's a little odd. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks it's some sorta Mike Tomlin orchestrated mind game to push Ben to be better. And Art II is one of Mike's chess pieces.

Crash
05-31-2012, 10:52 PM
Tomlin wanted Arians back. Tomlin isn't going to make himself look like he can't be trusted in front of his own staff by saying one thing and doing another after Arians leaves for Georgia.

This is Art's work IMO. Why? You'd have to ask him. Maybe he doesn't want to pay Ben almost $40 million from 2013-2015.

Something is going on here. This isn't just about on the field IMO. Maybe II's had it with Tomlin? Remember, the rumors are HE wanted Grimm and was overruled by Dan who chose Tomlin.

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 11:40 PM
This is Art's work IMO. Why? You'd have to ask him. Maybe he doesn't want to pay Ben almost $40 million from 2013-2015.



or perhaps he wants to protect his $40 million investment from getting beaten up so badly that he can barely play at the end of each season...

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:44 PM
or perhaps he wants to protect his $40 million investment from getting beaten up so badly that he can barely play at the end of each season...

Then you draft solid OLs (which they have), and you keep him out of predictable BS.

You get rid of the beach at Heinz Field and get the Ravens version of Field Turf which is regarded as one of the best out there.

No sense paying Ben $40 mil to be Trent Dilfer 2000 playing on a cow pasture.

You can say the same for Troy also, Heinz Field is ruining his career.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-01-2012, 12:52 AM
If the FO wants to play games with Ben and send him "messages" after 8 years of mostly success? Then it's time to cut bait and send him on his way. Because it seems to me based on what's transpiring? If they had the cap means to do so? They would.

Crash, this is what I don't get...sounds to me like you're saying that if Ben can't have everything the way he'd like it, or the way he's had it the past several years, that the Steelers ought to get rid of him.

C'mon...that's just absurd. He's one of the top QB's in the league...You're telling me that if the Steelers decide to emphasize the run a bit more in their offense, you'd rather have Byron Leftwich or Charlie Batch or some other journeyman QB under center? Imagine someone saying that if the Lakers decided to tweak their offense and take 4-5 shots away from Kobe every game, they might as well just dump him and have somebody like Lamar Odom take his place...

What you're saying reminds me of a neighbor kid who lived nearby when I was growing up. If we didn't play the game by his rules, he'd take his ball and go home.

Fortunately, the Steelers realize they have a winning QB, and they're not about to cut him loose...

Got to agree with you about the turf at Heinz, though...disgraceful and dangerous. Way past time to do something about it.

Crash
06-01-2012, 01:05 AM
Crash, this is what I don't get...sounds to me like you're saying that if Ben can't have everything the way he'd like it, or the way he's had it the past several years, that the Steelers ought to get rid of him.

If you are going to feature 1970s style football, you don't pay Ben Roethlisberger $15 million to do it. What would be the point? You'd be wasting money as well as his talent. You go get a cheap stop gap, you load up on running backs and defense, and you don't waste big money with the square peg round hole philosophy that Art II seems to be obsessed with.

Prime example: In Ben's three SBs they have run 9 first down plays in the red zone:

7 rushes 2 passes.

You can pay a guy $3 mil a year to do the same thing.


Fortunately, the Steelers realize they have a winning QB, and they're not about to cut him loose...

Do they? Seems to me the way they are treating this off season? They don't realize what they have at all.

For 20 years they thought they could get by without a franchise QB. They finally get one, win 2 rings, and because people are so concerned with protecting the defense it appears that they are hell-bent on turning the QB position into an afterthought again.

If that's the case? No sense paying him the money he makes to be a spare cog in the offense instead of the motor that makes it run.

The choice is simple: They can play the Yinzer Way, or they can play the CORRECT way.

hawaiiansteel
06-01-2012, 01:36 AM
posted by Dale Lolley

May 31, 2012

© Perhaps the most bizarre happenstance of the week was the "retirement" of former quarterback Kordell Stewart.

Considering the only time I'd seen Kordell the past few years was on pre-game shows and such, I thought he'd already hung up the helmet.

I know a lot of fans have a great deal of dislike for Stewart, but I always found him a decent guy.

He was a little full of himself in the beginning, but got knocked down a peg by the whole benching in favor of Kent Graham (!) thing.

He stayed strong and came back a better player and person from that ordeal - and the ridiculous and cowardly rumors about his sexual orientation.

I always admired him a little for that.

Was he a great quarterback? No. But he sure was fun to watch. If the coaching staff had used him a little better, he could have been much more impactful than what he was - and he was still impactful.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

Djfan
06-01-2012, 01:39 AM
Wow. I mean wow.

hawaiiansteel
06-01-2012, 03:37 AM
Cook: A curious choice, but for Stewart the right one

June 1, 2012
By Ron Cook / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Maybe Bill Romanowski had it right all of those years ago. It was late in the AFC championship game after the 1997 NFL season when Romanowski, a linebacker with the Denver Broncos, jumped in the face of Steelers quarterback Kordell Stewart after Stewart threw his third interception of the day. The Broncos were headed to Super Bowl XXXII, thanks to their 24-21 win at Three Rivers Stadium, and Romanowski felt the need to rub it in.

He mocked Stewart by tapping the side of his own helmet.

"I was just telling Kordell he isn't the smartest guy in the world," Romanowski said after the game.

It was a low-class move by a low-class player. Where was Jack Lambert when Stewart needed him? It would have been nice to see someone on the Steelers have Stewart's back and slam Romanowski down.

But maybe Romanowski was right.

Certainly, Stewart didn't show much intelligence this week when he came back to Pittsburgh to retire as a Steeler. It wasn't just bizarre. It was absurd. Stewart threw his last pass for the Steelers in 2002. He played in his last NFL game with the Baltimore Ravens in 2005.

And Stewart comes back now to announce his retirement?

Here?

How smart was that?

Stewart had to know people would look back on his career. He was one of this city's most vilified sports figures. It was so bad at times that it was embarrassing to the Steelers and to Steelers Nation.

The beer that was thrown on Stewart's head at Three Rivers Stadium. The racial slurs. The non-stop insults and innuendoes on the talk shows and the Internet. The death threats.

Many of those same people were back at it again this week, attacking Stewart anew.

Speaking of low class ...

A lot of Steelers fans should be ashamed of themselves.

Stewart did more for Pittsburgh than Pittsburgh ever did for him. He was the Steelers' best quarterback between four-time Super Bowl winner Terry Bradshaw and two-time Super Bowl winner Ben Roethlisberger.

He also is a much better man than his gutless, anonymous critics who came -- and are still coming -- after him personally. He never once lowered himself to fight back, never once got into a hissing contest with the snakes.

I admire Stewart more as a man than as a quarterback. And he was a pretty fair quarterback.

A lot of people forget Stewart led the Steelers to two AFC championship games. In several NFL cities, they would want to build a statue of the man. So many people talk only about the three interceptions he threw in that loss to the Broncos and the three others he threw in a 24-17 loss to the New England Patriots after the 2001 season. Too few fail to mention the many plays he made to get the team that far. He was a Pro Bowl player and the team's MVP when the Steelers went 13-3 in '01.

Stewart once predicted he would make the Hall of Fame. He fell considerably short, but he was better than everyone on this list: Cliff Stoudt, Mark Malone, David Woodley, Scott Campbell, Bubby Brister, Steve Bono, Todd Blackledge, Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kent Graham and Tommy Maddox. They are the other Steelers quarterbacks who followed Bradshaw and preceded Roethlisberger.

Who knows how much better Stewart would have been with more stable coaching? It's not just that he played for five offensive coordinators during his eight seasons with the Steelers: Ron Erhardt, Chan Gailey, Ray Sherman, Kevin Gilbride and Mike Mularkey. None of the coaches seemed to know how best to use him. He was a multitalented quarterback long before the world heard of Tim Tebow. But he was about 10 times better than Tebow.

It's still hard to believe that Stewart was benched at various times for Tomczak, Maddox and, especially, Graham. He was benched pretty much for good in the third game of the 2002 season. Imagine that. Pro Bowl in '01. Benched early in '02. Released before the '03 season.

That's some fast fall.

It would have been nice if Stewart had taken a bit more blame after losses. That couldn't have hurt his popularity. Too often, he would say, "It's not just me out there." Of course, he was right, but no one wants to hear that from the quarterback. Roethlisberger gets it. He's always the first to say after every loss, "Put the blame on me." No one is going to question his intelligence.

But, as far as I can remember, Stewart never lashed out publicly about his treatment from the Steelers. He also never took on the alleged fans who made him the target of their hateful rumors about his personal life. He again dismissed all of it this week -- even the frightening death threats -- as a part of the "high expectations" that people have for all Steelers quarterbacks.

Stewart is a bigger man than me.

I would have said the hell with Pittsburgh.

I wouldn't have come back.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/ron-cook/cook-a-curious-choice-but-for-stewart-the-right-one-638453/#ixzz1wW7dbc4B

Crash
06-01-2012, 03:41 AM
He was the Steelers' best quarterback between four-time Super Bowl winner Terry Bradshaw and two-time Super Bowl winner Ben Roethlisberger.

Sorry Ron, Neil O'Donnell was better in 1992-1995.

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 07:56 AM
Prime example: In Ben's three SBs they have run 9 first down plays in the red zone:

7 rushes 2 passes.

You can pay a guy $3 mil a year to do the same thing.



If there were no such thing as second down, third down or even fourth down, you're argument would make sense...

As it is? Not so much...

Crash
06-01-2012, 11:57 AM
If there were no such thing as second down, third down or even fourth down, you're argument would make sense...

As it is? Not so much...

2nd down: 5 rushes 3 passes.

3rd down: 4 rushes 3 passes.
_____________________________

9 rushes 6 passes combined on 2nd and 3rd down.


16 rushes 8 passes TOTAL in all red zone plays.

That's not "balance".

Again, why are they paying him big money to hand off?

Makes no sense.

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 12:35 PM
2nd down: 5 rushes 3 passes.

3rd down: 4 rushes 3 passes.
_____________________________

9 rushes 6 passes combined on 2nd and 3rd down.


16 rushes 8 passes TOTAL in all red zone plays.

That's not "balance".

Again, why are they paying him big money to hand off?

Makes no sense.

Now, what are the results?

Crash
06-01-2012, 01:03 PM
Now, what are the results?

You can get the same results having any QB hand off for $3 mil a year with better RBs and better OLs.

If you are going to pay a QB $15 MILLION a year? You don't have him handing the ball of 16 times in 24 red zone plays.

There's a reason why Ben Roethlisberger makes $15 million a year and Colt McCoy doesn't.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-01-2012, 02:39 PM
If you are going to feature 1970s style football, you don't pay Ben Roethlisberger $15 million to do it. What would be the point?
What's the point??? It's all about WINNING. You keep Ben so you have a big-time QB to make big-time plays when you need them to win. We actually had "1970s style football" here in the 1970s--and we won Super Bowls, not with some journeyman at QB, but with a #1 draft pick with a big-time arm, who could make the plays when we needed them. Can't believe I have to write this to you.


No sense paying him the money he makes to be a spare cog in the offense instead of the motor that makes it run.

Exaggerate much??? The number of times the QB throws downfield might be reduced by a bit, and now, suddenly, he's become a "spare cog"? That's ridiculous.

The Haley offense may run the ball a little more...I'm not convinced of that yet, but, for the sake of argument, let's say it will...Still better to have Ben at QB than Leftwich or Batch or Dixon, or whatever "$3 million QB" they could find to plug in. You won't admit it because you are so hell-bent on having the offense run exactly as you would have it. But I have to believe that in your heart, you know what I'm saying is true.

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 02:47 PM
What's the point??? It's all about WINNING. You keep Ben so you have a big-time QB to make big-time plays when you need them to win. We actually had "1970s style football" here in the 1970s--and we won Super Bowls, not with some journeyman at QB, but with a #1 draft pick with a big-time arm, who could make the plays when we needed them. Can't believe I have to write this to you.


Exaggerate much??? The number of times the QB throws downfield might be reduced by a bit, and now, suddenly, he's become a "spare cog"? That's ridiculous.

The Haley offense may run the be all a little more...I'm not convinced of that yet, but, for the sake of argument, let's say it will...Still better to have Ben at QB than Leftwich or Batch or Dixon, or whatever "$3 million QB" they could find to plug in. You won't admit it because you are so hell-bent on having the offense run exactly as you would have it. But I have to believe that in your heart, you know what I'm saying is true.

If the Steelers play 1975 football and win a SB, who cares how much Ben is paid?

He would have a 3rd SB ring, which would likely cement his HoF legacy...

Win-win...

Crash
06-01-2012, 02:57 PM
What's the point??? It's all about WINNING. You keep Ben so you have a big-time QB to make big-time plays when you need them to win. We actually had "1970s style football" here in the 1970s--and we won Super Bowls, not with some journeyman at QB, but with a #1 draft pick with a big-time arm, who could make the plays when we needed them. Can't believe I have to write this to you.

Different time, different game in 1974 and 1975.

But what did the Steelers DO as a team in 1978 and 1979 once the rules CHANGED to open up the passing game?

Their QB led the NFL in touchdown passes, and he was named Player of the Year.

We are where we are right now because ownership is more concerned with "tradition" and reliving the past than they are about WINNING.

We've been winning, but now that's not good enough.

Art II wants to win the way they won almost 40 YEARS ago.

Crash
06-01-2012, 02:57 PM
If the Steelers play 1975 football and win a SB, who cares how much Ben is paid?

He would have a 3rd SB ring, which would likely cement his HoF legacy...

Win-win...

His HoF legacy is already cemented. History proves it.

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 03:06 PM
Art II wants to win the way they won almost 40 YEARS ago.

Well, thank God we have you to clarify comments that require no clarification...

Crash
06-01-2012, 03:19 PM
Well, thank God we have you to clarify comments that require no clarification...We'll see. Remember this Slap, Haley COMMENTED the day he was hired that there would be "a lot of carry over" from BA's offense to the 2012 version. I wouldn't call a 90% change in the system (according to Manny Sanders and Ben) "a lot of carry over". Would you? So much for what people say huh?

Crash
06-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Mike Tomlin commented to Bruce Arians and to his fellow assistants that he wanted Arians back for 2012.

But yet Arians is in Indy, no?

Again, what was SAID Slap?

What happened?

flippy
06-02-2012, 09:31 AM
His HoF legacy is already cemented. History proves it.

There's still a possibility that voters don't like Ben because of his off field incidents. Voters can be finicky.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-02-2012, 10:26 AM
Different time, different game in 1974 and 1975.

But what did the Steelers DO as a team in 1978 and 1979 once the rules CHANGED to open up the passing game?

Their QB led the NFL in touchdown passes, and he was named Player of the Year.

We are where we are right now because ownership is more concerned with "tradition" and reliving the past than they are about WINNING.

We've been winning, but now that's not good enough.

Art II wants to win the way they won almost 40 YEARS ago.

Nonsense. Art II wants to win Super Bowls. He's not content with a 21st-ranked offense that can't score in the red zone. Nor should he be.

And yes, the game has changed, but:
1) Though you may run the ball LESS, you still need to be able to run it EFFECTIVELY
2) A GREAT quarterback always trumps an AVERAGE one, because, at times, you need to make GREAT PASSES

Let's wait and see how this offense actually plays out. They haven't even played a preseason game yet, and you are condemning them for running the ball too much. I have a hunch that when they start playing the games that count, they won't necessarily be running the ball more, just better. And I think you'll see Ben passing more in the red zone (just not so many fade routes to smurf receivers).

Crash
06-02-2012, 11:13 AM
1) Though you may run the ball LESS, you still need to be able to run it EFFECTIVELY

The Giants were last in the league in rushing, and were last in the league in yards per carry.

So much for that.

feltdizz
06-02-2012, 12:25 PM
The Giants were last in the league in rushing, and were last in the league in yards per carry.

So much for that.


[/COLOR]

Once again it wasn't by choice....

That's like a fan of the run game using the passing stats while Ben was suspended as proof the pass isn't important because we went 3-1.

I love how everyone uses the last SB winner to prove what works and what doesn't work. If you watched every playoff game there were 4 to 5 key plays in each that determined the outcome.

grotonsteel
06-02-2012, 01:30 PM
I love how everyone uses the last SB winner to prove what works and what doesn't work.

Unfortunately last year was the one which changed NFL for worse i think. Three 5000 yards passing QB with Peyton Manning injured. NFL had 1 NFL QB do that in what 30 yrs???. How many 4000 yards passing QBs??? With new rules WRs are not afraid to go over the middle anymore. Few NFL QBs can't be touched.

I think we are going to see passing league going forward. RB like LT will survive rest will be treated like FB position.

feltdizz
06-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Unfortunately last year was the one which changed NFL for worse i think. Three 5000 yards passing QB with Peyton Manning injured. NFL had 1 NFL QB do that in what 30 yrs???. How many 4000 yards passing QBs??? With new rules WRs are not afraid to go over the middle anymore. Few NFL QBs can't be touched.

I think we are going to see passing league going forward. RB like LT will survive rest will be treated like FB position.

True, but eventually teams/DB's will adjust to the new rules, stop the pass by dropping more into coverage or which will open up running lanes. I think the NFL has been a passing league since the first set of rule changes back in the 70's. In a few years we will be right back where we started in terms of pass/run ratios because you have 2 options and it really comes down to your opponent's weakness, your strength and in-game adjustments based on injuries and production.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-03-2012, 12:29 AM
The Giants were last in the league in rushing, and were last in the league in yards per carry.

So much for that.


[/COLOR]

They had injuries that crippled their running attack, and they almost missed the playoffs (9-7 regular season). Their running game improved during their playoff run. By no means did they become a run-first team, but they ran the ball much better and picked up yards on the ground when they needed to.

Crash
06-03-2012, 10:21 AM
I love how everyone uses the last SB winner to prove what works and what doesn't work. If you watched every playoff game there were 4 to 5 key plays in each that determined the outcome.

What were the Steelers ranked in rushing in 2008?

Eich
06-03-2012, 03:34 PM
What were the Steelers ranked in rushing in 2008?

What were the Steelers ranked on Defense in points allowed in 2008?

Crash
06-03-2012, 05:28 PM
What were the Steelers ranked on Defense in points allowed in 2008?

Not relevant to the issue.

Terrific, they were #1 in the regular season.

Then Kurt Warner killed them in the 4th quarter and the offense saved Dick LeBeau from owning the two biggest choke jobs in SB history 20 years apart.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 10:47 PM
That's like a fan of the run game using the passing stats while Ben was suspended as proof the pass isn't important because we went 3-1.

Oh GREAT job Dizz. Just KILL my topic dont ya.
NOW what is my next thread gonna be? :)

hawaiiansteel
07-10-2012, 12:22 AM
One Word Defines Kordell Stewart's Legacy

by Hombre de Acero on Jul 9, 2012

Last month Kordell Stewart proved he had a unique talent that no one could dispute: Stirring up controversy within Steelers Nation.

Kordell's surprise "retirement" puzzled, amused, and rekindled old arguments among the faithful.


I wrote an in-depth retrospective on Kordell's career as a Steeler, but 2020 words later I felt that, while I had a good analytical grasp of his playing career, I was still left struggling to understand "what it all meant."

My moment of insight came when I stumbled upon Ron Cook's claim in the Post Gazette that "[Kordell] was the Steelers' best quarterback between four-time Super Bowl winner Terry Bradshaw and two-time Super Bowl winner Ben Roethlisberger."

Even after having defended Kordell ad nauseam in watering holes throughout Steelers Nation, Cook's contention struck me as preposterous.

But the more I wrestled with it, the more Cook's contention made sense.

It doesn't matter that hard statistics indicate that at Neil O'Donnell (and perhaps Tommy Maddox) were better than Kordell. Neither is it important that O'Donnell, unlike Stewart, rallied his team from behind in an AFC Championship game and at least gave Pittsburgh a shot at One for the Thumb.

None of that is really relevant because, at the end of the day, a single word defines Kordell Stewart's legacy.

Emotion.

Emotion defined everything about Kordell Stewart, both on and off the field. Emotion fueled front office and coaching decisions, and emotion lay at the core of every conversation that two Steelers fans had about Number 10.

Remember "Slash's" days of glory in 1995? Number 10 was the toast of Steelers Nation. He could wrong and was the man credited with loosening up Ron Erhardt's stiff offense.

Never mind that the loosening up process began in 1994 during O'Donnell's mid-season benching. Emotion trumps rationality in memory.

And so it should, sometimes, as Kordell certainly gave the Steelers offense a dynamism that it never would have attained he remained a 4th string quarterback in street clothes.

But if emotion can help fuel a run to the Super Bowl it can also delude under other circumstances.

Mike Tomzcak played uncharacteristically well at the outset of 1996, but by season's end he was finding mediocrity. Bill Cowher knew this but felt Kordell Stewart gave him the weapon he needed to rebalance the scales in Pittsburgh's favor. Kordell's 80 yard touchdown run in relief of Tomzack the season finale seemed to vindicate The Chin's gut instinct.

During the playoffs Cowher's secret weapon ran aground against the harsh reality gimmick offenses do not result in Super Bowls, as illustrated by Kordell playing for an entire half and failing to complete a single pass during Fog Bowl II.

1997: Stewart Starts and The Roller Coaster Continues

No coach of his generation wore emotions on his sleeve more prominently than Bill Cowher. And Cowher's most emotional sideline moment was his planting a kiss squarely on Kordell Stewart's cheek on a September Sunday in Baltimore.

It's easy to understand why. Kordell began the game throwing four interceptions, each interception more terrible than the one that preceded it. Yet, Kordell rallied the team to four touchdown drives, the go ahead score coming on a 70 yard scramble, followed by Cowher's kiss.

Memory tells us that this game was characteristic of the entire season - Kordell faltering only to lead the team back from the brink. I'd swear that the late season match up vs. Denver, the game marked by Carnell Lake's second shift to corner, unfolded exactly as the Baltimore game did.

Except it didn't.

Kordell did throw a pick and erratic passing did lead to some three and outs early in the game, but it was John Elway's scorching Donnell Wolford that put Pittsburgh in the hole that Kordell led them out of.

But we remember Kordell as both the antagonist and hero of that game, and almost every close game of the 1997 season, because it fits our narrative.

The Steeler-Broncos rematch in the AFC Championship reveals the flip side of how our memories spin these emotional yarns.

Does anyone remember Kordell capped a late game drive by throwing a touchdown to Charles Johnson to bring Pittsburgh within a field goal of tying? Do we recall that it was the defense failed to prevent Denver from running out the clock?

No.

Instead we remember Kordell throwing multiple interceptions at the goal line.
While Kordell certainly shouldn't be excused for the interceptions, his performance in the game that marked his first big career downturn was far more balanced than the fans, and perhaps Stewart himself, credited him for.

Emotions ran raw throughout the 1998 season, most notably Kordell's sideline confrontation with Bill Cowher, his benching, his crying and then inexplicable reinsertion back into the game.

1999: No One is Immune

But it was the front office that showed that it was not immune from the bug that off season.

The Steelers had extended Stewart's rookie contract in 1997. That meant that the Steelers had him under contract at a relatively low salary cap number for only two more years at that point, giving the franchise a lot of flexibility for dealing with their faltering starter.

Instead of hedging their bets, the front office ignored the signs that Kordell was regressing, tore up Kordell's contract and extended it through 2003 with a then unheard of 8.1 million dollar signing bonus and 22 million plus in new money.

Dan Rooney seemed to acknowledge the franchise's leap of faith at Heinz Field's ground breaking by commenting something along the lines that: "We'd like this to become the ‘House that Kordell built' but we'll see."

The only thing Kordell built in 1999 was frustration, as he regressed even further. But so did the Steelers offensive line, wide receiving corps, defensive line, and secondary.

A large swath of Steelers Nation refused to accept the later reality.

On December 12, 1999 when Qadry Ismail was burning the Steelers defense for a record 258 yards and 3 touchdowns Scott Brown, then Dean of the PSFCOM's legendary Purple Goose Saloon, sarcastically joked "Its Kordell's fault."

Many of the venerable bar's patrons missed Scotty's sarcasm, never mind the fact that Kordell had been relegated to wide receiver by that point.

(And we won't even begin to fathom the layered irrationality that led untold hundreds in Steeler Nation to swear that "My buddy's the cop who..." caught Kordell in any number of illegal and unsavory situations.)

Resurrection and End Game

Kordell Stewart would of course rise for the ashes of 1999, first helping restore the Steelers self-respect in 2000 and then taking them to another losing AFC Championship game which he took a disproportionate share of the blame.

After winning the Steelers MVP award and going to the Pro Bowl in 2001, Kordell Stewart's time as a starter ended in just three games into 2002. The suddenness and permanence of the benching caught many by complete surprise, up to and including Steelers Digest's Bob Labriola.

During ESPN Deportes Latin American broadcast of the Steelers-Colts MNF game later that year, Raul Allegre reported that Cowher had confided in him that he hadn't wanted to bench Kordell, but felt he had to because Stewart had lost the confidence of his locker room.

I'll let you decide if that amounts to a final, gut instinct decision.

But I do know that there was no objective benefit or logical reason for Kordell Stewart to fly into Pittsburgh to file his retirement papers at the South Side.

Instead it was purely a decision from the heart. A perfect ending for a player whose legacy was defined by emotion.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/7/9/3145720/steelers-kordell-stewart-legacy-Bill-Cowher#storyjump

RuthlessBurgher
07-10-2012, 01:12 PM
One Word Defines Kordell Stewart's Legacy

by Hombre de Acero on Jul 9, 2012

Acero used to post here. Guess we know where he is now (other than Mexico, of course).