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Slapstick
05-25-2012, 12:00 PM
The problems with the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://bleacherreport.com/pittsburgh-steelers) offense have been obvious for years, and it has become quite clear that the source of those problems is now gone. In just a few months on the job, Todd Haley has identified that his quarterback is very good at the play-action pass and that running the ball more effectively will help improve that facet of the offense.

Why couldn't Bruce Arians figure out in five years what Haley has begun to implement in just two OTAs? Who knows? But the important thing is that the Steelers offense now has a direction—a very good direction.

As reported in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-offense-is-under-construction-637341/?p=0), the Steelers offense will be using a fullback in an effort to improve the effectiveness of the running game as well as use the backs more out of the backfield in the passing game.

The news that will get many fans excited is that the Steelers will now have a designated fullback on the roster.

"Yeah, there's a fullback in the offense," Redman said (via the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-offense-is-under-construction-637341/?p=0)). "They moved David Johnson over to fullback. He's not a tight end anymore, he's strictly a fullback now."

While Johnson has not been stellar at fullback, the devotion to the position will mean that he can focus his attention on perfecting his craft rather than doubling as a tight end as Redman points out.

"That's going to help develop him," Redman said (via the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-offense-is-under-construction-637341/?p=0)), "now that he's in our meeting rooms and being able to see what type of blocks that we have, and what type of blocks that we want from him. Instead of him being a tight end in the tight-end room and kind of doing fullback as a second job, he's strictly focusing on fullback. I think that will help him a lot."

Johnson will compete with Will Johnson for the starting fullback role in what should be an intriguing competition.

Not only did the Steelers identify that they want a fullback to be a part of the offense, but more importantly, it shows that they are having a philosophical change with what they plan to do under Haley, and it appears that they are committed to improving the run.

The new commitment to the ground game is what is exciting, not naming a fullback. Let's be clear, too, we are not talking about a ground-and-pound offense, but instead, one that can use the run to set up the play-action pass.

There are few quarterbacks in the league as good as Roethlisberger when it comes to the play-action passing attack, and it is hard to believe the Steelers have gone so long without it being a staple of their offense. With Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown as deep threats, the Steelers should be in store for some big plays when they catch defenses looking for the run off-guard.

A strong ground game should help draw defenders close to the line, and the offseason moves so far have shown that the Steelers are serious about improving this area of the offense.

By moving Johnson to fullback and adding David DeCastro and Mike Adams in the draft, they have significantly improved the blocking in front of Redman, who may be the most important component to an improved ground game.

Redman is a powerful runner who rarely is stopped for a loss, so in other words, the complete opposite of Rashard Mendenhall. Now, with improved blocking in front of him, he will be even tougher to stop.

An effective running attack will help draw defenders to the line, which will provide the offense with plenty of opportunities to take their shots down field to Wallace and Brown. This will be much less predictable than what we have seen over the past several seasons. More importantly, it will be a better option than letting Roethlisberger scramble all over the field trying to avoid bltizing defenders before he heaves up a bomb on an improvised play.

Roethlisberger already throws a good deep ball and will finally get a chance to go back to one of his strengths and one that does not get him sacked 50 times a season. Haley will win a lot of fans if the Steelers are able to execute this area of the offense.

Pittsburgh will also look to throw the ball to the running backs out of the backfield. Redman has surprising soft hands for a big back, and Baron Batch and Chris Rainey are both threats in this area as well. By dumping the ball off to the backs, Roethlisberger will also save some unnecessary hits while potentially creating a big play.

All too often, we have watched Roethlisberger scramble and then take a sack or take an unnecessary risk down field when a running back is standing wide open for a potential big gain. By emphasizing using the backs in the passing game, Roethlisberger will be less prone to taking unnecessary hits while improving the chance of big plays.

The improved athleticism on the offensive line should be able to get out in front and block for the running backs looking to make plays in the passing game. Who knows, maybe the Steelers will even look to develop screen passes to the running backs.

As it stands now, the offense is perfectly set up for a play-action style of play, and it just took a coordinator change to finally realize this. As simple as it seems, Haley is designing an offense to his team's strengths, and that should reflect in the overall production of the offense in 2012.

The days of exploiting their own weaknesses is gone for the Steelers offense. With the new system in place, they have a chance to be one of the top offenses in the league, and this will carry them a long way this season.

Emphasis is mine...

Thoughts?

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 12:17 PM
Passing offense should set up Running game. We don't have a CJ or AP as a RB. Mendy dances too much for my liking. Redman is okay. I won't give more touches to the RBs.

Full Back who can't catch sucks. You are telling your opponents that it will be run more often than not. I want best Offensive personel on the ground all the time. Remove FB position and i want to see more 3-WR /4-WR set in this new offense.

No way DJ should see the field over Manny or Cotchery.

I want Ben to scramble. I want some plays designed accordingly. I want offense who will move the pocket. I prefer Ben taking a sack while scrambling than dumping a 3 yard toss on 3rd and 10. The only RBs i am interested on 3rd down are Chris Rainey and Baron Batch.

I want Todd Haley to design plays specifically for Chris Rainey and BB to catch the ball in open.

Biggest problem last season for offense apart from injuries was Marty ball. Run-Run-Pass once Steelers had the lead. Screw that. If Defense can't get enough rest tough luck.

steelnavy
05-25-2012, 12:18 PM
Thank gawd!!!!!!!

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 12:25 PM
Full Back who can't catch sucks. You are telling your opponents that it will be run more often than not. I want best Offensive personel on the ground all the time. Remove FB position and i want to see more 3-WR /4-WR set in this new offense.


The whole point of play-action passing is for the defense to think that it is a run play...

Crash
05-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Using the run to set up the pass is ground and pound. Period.

What made 2004-2011 the 2nd best era in Steelers football HISTORY, was using the pass to set up the run.

Yeah Haley's a friggin genius, creating a starting job for David Johnson is a sure sign of sheer brilliance.

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 12:36 PM
The whole point of play-action passing is for the defense to think that it is a run play...

Well in theory it sounds good but how many teams are going to respect Issac Redman and DJ. I doubt anyone will make Dick Lebeau blunder with DJ on the field.

Pops8
05-25-2012, 12:38 PM
"An effective running attack will help draw defenders to the line, which will provide the offense with plenty of opportunities to take their shots down field to Wallace and Brown. "

Given Ben's ability to extend plays, my feeling is defense should and would be more inclined to stay back for fear of Brown or Wallace getting deep. I would expect the defensive line to move to a contain the QB type attack. This is when the running lanes should be open up. Play action works well here but in reverse. Use the fake handoff a few times to freeze the db's into pass and the front seven to contain Ben. When they do, go ahead and hand the ball.

(or, in short, pass to set up run).

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 12:39 PM
Using the run to set up the pass is ground and pound. Period.


Except that it isn't...

BTW, are you telling me that in 2004 and 2005, the Steelers used the pass to set up the run?

Really?

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 12:40 PM
Using the run to set up the pass is ground and pound. Period.

What made 2004-2011 the 2nd best era in Steelers football HISTORY, was using the pass to set up the run.

Yeah Haley's a friggin genius, creating a starting job for David Johnson is a sure sign of sheer brilliance.

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!

DJ should never i repeat never see the field over Manny or Cotchery. Enough of this stupid run-run-pass offense. Todd Haley was hired for this caveman offense???

Bengals, Raven don't give a damn about Steelers Running Game.

Mike Tomlin against raven in 2012..we are going to tun the ball down the Ravens throat no matter what. Issac Redman stats (17 carries -34 yards)

PS board in meltdown. People cursing offense for the loss. Ben sucks thread all over the place.

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 12:45 PM
"An effective running attack will help draw defenders to the line, which will provide the offense with plenty of opportunities to take their shots down field to Wallace and Brown. "

Given Ben's ability to extend plays, my feeling is defense should and would be more inclined to stay back for fear of Brown or Wallace getting deep. I would expect the defensive line to move to a contain the QB type attack. This is when the running lanes should be open up. Play action works well here but in reverse. Use the fake handoff a few times to freeze the db's into pass and the front seven to contain Ben. When they do, go ahead and hand the ball.

(or, in short, pass to set up run).

+1

Pass should be used to set up the run. Not other way round. I am pretty sure Mendy or Redman will run better without DJ as a FB.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 12:47 PM
I'm confused, where did it say that DJ would start and play most of the offensive snaps?

Crash
05-25-2012, 12:52 PM
Except that it isn't...

BTW, are you telling me that in 2004 and 2005, the Steelers used the pass to set up the run?

Really?

Absolutely. When Tony Dungy claimed he was shocked that we came out throwing? I laughed at him. Because we did that for two years.

But all people look at, is the attempts that Ben had but not realizing that A) They didn't throw much in the second half after they got leads, and B) When you average almost 9 YARDS per ATTEMPT? You don't dink and dunk the ball down the field.

Ben threw 15 TD passes as a starter in 2004. 11 of them were in the first half. The most passes he threw in any quarter was the 2nd, despite the fact that he only started 13 regular season games that year.

Ben threw 17 TD passes in 12 games in 2005, 11 of them in the first half and had 9.5 YPA. Again, just because he doesn't dink and dunk shouldn't take away the fact that they come throwing.

Crash
05-25-2012, 12:53 PM
I'm confused, where did it say that DJ would start and play most of the offensive snaps?

I would bet that since DJ is now a FB full time? And he is no longer a TE? He will see the field just as much, if not slightly more, under Haley as he did with Arians.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-25-2012, 01:11 PM
We have seen the Ravens 2-3 times a year & they use that formula. The Ravens average out 11-5 over the last 4 years & have always been in the hunt. They don't have nearly the weapons we do in the passing game either. So we know we can get in shoot outs if need be. I guess you could be optimistic that style could get you to the dance with a solid defense "IF" you have the ability to flick that switch & open it up. I think the Steelers have the ability to be very explosive in either mode if things come together.

steelz09
05-25-2012, 01:21 PM
Passing offense should set up Running game. We don't have a CJ or AP as a RB. Mendy dances too much for my liking. Redman is okay. I won't give more touches to the RBs.

Full Back who can't catch sucks. You are telling your opponents that it will be run more often than not. I want best Offensive personel on the ground all the time. Remove FB position and i want to see more 3-WR /4-WR set in this new offense.

No way DJ should see the field over Manny or Cotchery.

I want Ben to scramble. I want some plays designed accordingly. I want offense who will move the pocket. I prefer Ben taking a sack while scrambling than dumping a 3 yard toss on 3rd and 10. The only RBs i am interested on 3rd down are Chris Rainey and Baron Batch.

I want Todd Haley to design plays specifically for Chris Rainey and BB to catch the ball in open.

Biggest problem last season for offense apart from injuries was Marty ball. Run-Run-Pass once Steelers had the lead. Screw that. If Defense can't get enough rest tough luck.

First of all, CJ wouldn't have done anything behind our o-line of previous years. AP ... well, maybe. You can't have everything. Everyone would like to have AP but that is not realistic for us. If our o-line is significantly improved which is should, Redman will put up very good stats along w/ our other backs.

As far as Ben scrambliing. Scrambling will get Ben hurt again and our SB chances are basically gone. Scrambling needs to be cut back but not eliminated. Some improvising is good. But I don't want Ben running around on 2&8 like a chicken w/ his head cutoff for 2 reasons. Number 1, he'll get hurt. Number 2, it will be 3rd and 18 and we'll likely have to punt. BB needs to get rid of the ball faster so he stays healthy and getting the ball to RBs that are WIDE OPEN is a good choice.

steelblood
05-25-2012, 01:22 PM
DJ should never i repeat never see the field over Manny or Cotchery. Enough of this stupid run-run-pass offense. Todd Haley was hired for this caveman offense???

Bengals, Raven don't give a damn about Steelers Running Game.

Mike Tomlin against raven in 2012..we are going to tun the ball down the Ravens throat no matter what. Issac Redman stats (17 carries -34 yards)

PS board in meltdown. People cursing offense for the loss. Ben sucks thread all over the place.


You have no idea that it will be simply run-run-pass. Ben has already said that they will spread the field and go no huddle as well. This offense can be multi-faceted and win in different ways. By the way, when we made it to the Super Bowl two years ago, we won the playoff game against the Jets by running the ball effectively to set up the pass. They didn't expect it. And, it worked. There are many ways to win, and a good offense is not predictable. I believe that Haley knows this. Give the guy a chance before crucifying him. Further, if running more when we can, extends Ben's career or keeps him healthy for the playoffs, I'm all for it!

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Absolutely. When Tony Dungy claimed he was shocked that we came out throwing? I laughed at him. Because we did that for two years.

But all people look at, is the attempts that Ben had but not realizing that A) They didn't throw much in the second half after they got leads, and B) When you average almost 9 YARDS per ATTEMPT? You don't dink and dunk the ball down the field.

Ben threw 15 TD passes as a starter in 2004. 11 of them were in the first half. The most passes he threw in any quarter was the 2nd, despite the fact that he only started 13 regular season games that year.

Ben threw 17 TD passes in 12 games in 2005, 11 of them in the first half and had 9.5 YPA. Again, just because he doesn't dink and dunk shouldn't take away the fact that they come throwing.

In 2004, Duce Staley had more rushing attempts in the 1st quarter than the 2nd quarter...

In 2005, Willie Parker had more rushing attempts in the 1st quarter than the 2nd quarter...

In both 2004 and 2005, Ben Roethlisberger had more pass attempts in the 2nd quarter than in the 1st quarter...

That's because the Steelers used the run to set up the pass...

Crash
05-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Ben isn't a scrambler people.

Do you guys even watch?

Crash
05-25-2012, 01:27 PM
In 2004, Duce Staley had more rushing attempts in the 1st quarter than the 2nd quarter...

In 2005, Willie Parker had more rushing attempts in the 1st quarter than the 2nd quarter...

In both 2004 and 2005, Ben Roethlisberger had more pass attempts in the 2nd quarter than in the 1st quarter...

That's because the Steelers used the run to set up the pass...

I guess you missed this part:

B) When you average almost 9 YARDS per ATTEMPT? You don't dink and dunk the ball down the field.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 01:31 PM
I would bet that since DJ is now a FB full time? And he is no longer a TE? He will see the field just as much, if not slightly more, under Haley as he did with Arians.

If the Steelers ran around 1,000 total offensive plays in 2011, then DJ was on the field for less than half...

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 01:36 PM
I guess you missed this part:

B) When you average almost 9 YARDS per ATTEMPT? You don't dink and dunk the ball down the field.

Dink and dunk is what you do when to pass to set up the run...

Big plays downfield are the goal when you use the run to set up the pass...

Crash
05-25-2012, 01:38 PM
What was the % of 1st downs with DJ on the field? Again, you talk STATS.

I talk situational football.

Fantasy football has ruined football logic.

Crash
05-25-2012, 01:40 PM
Dink and dunk is what you do when to pass to set up the run...

Big plays downfield are the goal when you use the run to set up the pass...

Then you don't watch this team much. And you certainly haven't been watching since 2007 when Ben cemented his HOF career.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-25-2012, 01:40 PM
I'm not so sure true FB will suit DJ. I think W Johnson has a great shot at it because he SHOULD be far more effective in PA. DJ's strong suit wasn't ISO blocks in the A & B gaps and Redman is best when he is downhill attacking the ILBs following an ISO block. Hard to believe W Johnson can't give you at least what DJ gives them in that area & add a better dimension off of PA.

A FB that could clear the trash off of PA and stay on his feet and get in a pattern is a very effective weapon. A FB in the "I" is the ILB read coming through the hole. More often than not, the LB meeting him is responsible for him in coverage if in man. You have an athletic FB who could get seperation off that PA....You get LBs to hesitate & meet the FB 2 yards deeper than they should or the DC has to drop the S off the line. When they start doing that, run game moves the sticks and the clock. You start getting those 5-6 yard runs on 1st down that just kills the DC. 2 & 5 or 2 & 4 is just a nightmare to call against especially when the Steelers go 21 personnel. Factor in Batch or Rainey now in 21 personnel...You get mismatches on the RB....And there is where passing to the RBs becomes a huge part of the offense.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 01:52 PM
Again, you talk STATS.

I talk situational football.


Really? That's what you're going with?



Ben threw 15 TD passes as a starter in 2004. 11 of them were in the first half. The most passes he threw in any quarter was the 2nd, despite the fact that he only started 13 regular season games that year.

Ben threw 17 TD passes in 12 games in 2005, 11 of them in the first half and had 9.5 YPA. Again, just because he doesn't dink and dunk shouldn't take away the fact that they come throwing.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Then you don't watch this team much. And you certainly haven't been watching since 2007 when Ben cemented his HOF career.

If you say so...

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 02:04 PM
I'm not so sure true FB will suit DJ. I think W Johnson has a great shot at it because he SHOULD be far more effective in PA. DJ's strong suit wasn't ISO blocks in the A & B gaps and Redman is best when he is downhill attacking the ILBs following an ISO block. Hard to believe W Johnson can't give you at least what DJ gives them in that area & add a better dimension off of PA.

A FB that could clear the trash off of PA and stay on his feet and get in a pattern is a very effective weapon. A FB in the "I" is the ILB read coming through the hole. More often than not, the LB meeting him is responsible for him in coverage if in man. You have an athletic FB who could get seperation off that PA....You get LBs to hesitate & meet the FB 2 yards deeper than they should or the DC has to drop the S off the line. When they start doing that, run game moves the sticks and the clock. You start getting those 5-6 yard runs on 1st down that just kills the DC. 2 & 5 or 2 & 4 is just a nightmare to call against especially when the Steelers go 21 personnel. Factor in Batch or Rainey now in 21 personnel...You get mismatches on the RB....And there is where passing to the RBs becomes a huge part of the offense.

If a player like Will Johnson can be a John L. Williams type, who can be a weapon as well as a blocker, it would be great...

Heck, Redman played a little FB...if Mendenhall can come back or Dwyer can earn some PT, you honestly could have a decent pony backfield with legit weapons at RB...

Captain Lemming
05-25-2012, 02:09 PM
Using the run to set up the pass is ground and pound. Period.

What made 2004-2011 the 2nd best era in Steelers football HISTORY, was using the pass to set up the run.

Yeah Haley's a friggin genius, creating a starting job for David Johnson is a sure sign of sheer brilliance.

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!

Ben BEST postseason BY FAR was the playoff run when we had Willie and Bettis.

The offense worked EXACTLY like Haley describes here. People feared the run and we passed at will.

Ben was unstoppable until nerves got him in the SB.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2012, 02:17 PM
Absolutely. When Tony Dungy claimed he was shocked that we came out throwing? I laughed at him. Because we did that for two years.

But all people look at, is the attempts that Ben had but not realizing that A) They didn't throw much in the second half after they got leads, and B) When you average almost 9 YARDS per ATTEMPT? You don't dink and dunk the ball down the field.

Ben threw 15 TD passes as a starter in 2004. 11 of them were in the first half. The most passes he threw in any quarter was the 2nd, despite the fact that he only started 13 regular season games that year.

Ben threw 17 TD passes in 12 games in 2005, 11 of them in the first half and had 9.5 YPA. Again, just because he doesn't dink and dunk shouldn't take away the fact that they come throwing.

No argument about what came first in games.
The point is that the fear of a strong run game set up the pass.
Your quote proves how it WORKED.

Our game lately....no respect for the run, Ben has never been as good

Crash
05-25-2012, 02:17 PM
The ground game did NOTHING for most of that 2005 run until games were decided and well in hand.


But the obsession to cater to Jerome Bettis' ego that same post season run, almost ended it.

Crash
05-25-2012, 02:20 PM
No argument about what came first in games.
The point is that the fear of a strong run game set up the pass.
Your quote proves how it WORKED.

Our game lately....no respect for the run, Ben has never been as good

Excuse me? He was dominant in 2007.

Came out fast in 2008, had a lull in the middle of the year, then finished strong.

Solid season in 2009. Was solid in 2010 also when he returned and was having a solid season before his ankle got hurt in 2011.

JFC you people treat him like he's Cliff Stoudt 1983.

Do you guys really want 70;s football that much to the point that you devalue Ben in the process?

FFS......

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
Excuse me? He was dominant in 2007.

Came out fast in 2008, had a lull in the middle of the year, then finished strong.

Solid season in 2009. Was solid in 2010 also when he returned and was having a solid season before his ankle got hurt in 2011.

JFC you people treat him like he's Cliff Stoudt 1983.

Do you guys really want 70;s football that much to the point that you devalue Ben in the process?

FFS......

No. I want the Steelers to win Super Bowls...

Value or devalue Ben, I don't care...I want him to do his job and put the ball into the hands of his playmakers...

Crash
05-25-2012, 02:29 PM
I want him to do his job and put the ball into the hands of his playmakers...

We agree.

But Art doesn't. We have to run the ball.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 02:34 PM
We agree.

But Art doesn't. We have to run the ball.

We'll see in September...

Crash
05-25-2012, 02:36 PM
We'll see in September...

Yeah, we will. If they aren't close to 50-50 on first down? The offense is a failure, and if it succeeds it will be in spite of Haley, not because of him.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2012, 02:41 PM
Excuse me? He was dominant in 2007.

Came out fast in 2008, had a lull in the middle of the year, then finished strong.

Solid season in 2009. Was solid in 2010 also when he returned and was having a solid season before his ankle got hurt in 2011.

JFC you people treat him like he's Cliff Stoudt 1983.

Do you guys really want 70;s football that much to the point that you devalue Ben in the process?

FFS......

I said never been "as good".
That is to when we had the reputation as a feared run team.
You mention 2007.
I think that was his best regular season.
Where did we rank in rush attempts?

Dude is a savvy vet today. Bring that O back and he wont have career yardage numbers but he will shred people when we need it because he will again se 8 in the box like he used to.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2012, 02:45 PM
and if it succeeds it will be in spite of Haley, not because of him.

:)
Always the escape hatch Crash. Dont seem all that confident that it wont succeed.

Winning or stats for Ben? What is your priority?

Crash
05-25-2012, 02:49 PM
:)
Always the escape hatch Crash. Dont seem all that confident that it wont succeed.

Winning or stats for Ben? What is your priority?

Both, like it's been for his HOF career.

The 1st down ratio has to be close to 50-50. That way you see, 2nd down can be closer to 50-50 as well.

Everything comes off what happens on first down.

Running the ball 58% on all first downs, makes 2nd down that much more predictable.

You 70s sheep have a choice to make:

Relive the 70s or try to win a 3rd Super Bowl after going ringless from 1983-2003 playing it your way?

DBR96A
05-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Passing offense should set up Running game. We don't have a CJ or AP as a RB. Mendy dances too much for my liking. Redman is okay. I won't give more touches to the RBs.

Full Back who can't catch sucks. You are telling your opponents that it will be run more often than not. I want best Offensive personel on the ground all the time. Remove FB position and i want to see more 3-WR /4-WR set in this new offense.

No way DJ should see the field over Manny or Cotchery.

I want Ben to scramble. I want some plays designed accordingly. I want offense who will move the pocket. I prefer Ben taking a sack while scrambling than dumping a 3 yard toss on 3rd and 10. The only RBs i am interested on 3rd down are Chris Rainey and Baron Batch.

I want Todd Haley to design plays specifically for Chris Rainey and BB to catch the ball in open.

Biggest problem last season for offense apart from injuries was Marty ball. Run-Run-Pass once Steelers had the lead. Screw that. If Defense can't get enough rest tough luck.


'Z'at you, Bruce? :o

Crash
05-25-2012, 02:56 PM
Yeah the Steelers were 3rd in the NFL in rushing attempts in 2007.

And guess what? LeBeau's 4th quarter defense still sucked all year.

Now what?

Captain Lemming
05-25-2012, 03:02 PM
You 70s sheep have a choice to make:

Relive the 70s or try to win a 3rd Super Bowl after going ringless from 1983-2003 playing it your way?

No sheep here just a lemming, you know you are the one who called me that before I made it my handle here. Stop with the different animals!!! :)

The only difference between the dry run and recent success is the "quality" of the QB not the quantity of passes.

I have shown you before that we are far more consistent when we have a determined run game.

2010 was an exception not the rule.

Crash
05-25-2012, 03:04 PM
What was the run game ranked in 2008?

squidkid
05-25-2012, 03:05 PM
crash,
wanna bet me that the offense finishes higher ranked than last year?
scoring?
redzone scoring?

Crash
05-25-2012, 03:08 PM
crash,
wanna bet me that the offense finishes higher ranked than last year?
scoring?
redzone scoring?

I don't want them to fail. I hope they do better.

Don't insult me by even thinking I would take that bet.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2012, 03:15 PM
Yeah the Steelers were 3rd in the NFL in rushing attempts in 2007.

My point? Ben was AWESOME that season.


And guess what? LeBeau's 4th quarter defense still sucked all year.

Now what?

OK......I missed the part about how LeBeau relates to Ben's success as a QB?????
Crash you are such a genius that an average joe like me cannot ...

Crash your logic confuses and frightens me but I am just a lowly caveman:

565

Crash
05-25-2012, 03:22 PM
OK......I missed the part about how LeBeau relates to Ben's success as a QB?????
Crash you are such a genius that an average joe like me cannot ...

Beause the offense and the way they play isn't the problem. It's LeBeau's cowardly, scared, Rich Kotite-esq 4th quarter pu$sy defense that kills this team more than anything.

Ben was ONE regular season win at Tennesee, from winning the NFL MVP award in 2008. Like I said before, you guys act like he stinks and has for years. All because you crave 1970's football.

It's a passing league now gents (especially with no defense in Goodell's world), accept that move on. And if Art II won't? Trade Ben, load up on RBs and defense, and send him on his way.

Sugar
05-25-2012, 03:22 PM
crash,
wanna bet me that the offense finishes higher ranked than last year?
scoring?
redzone scoring?

You're proposing a pretty easy bet to win. Even if we had changed nothing structurally on O and not gotten rid of BA, we should still be better this year because of a better OL if nothing else. They had musical chairs on that line last year. As long as they stay reasonably healthy this year, the O should be better of in every regard.

hawaiiansteel
05-25-2012, 03:26 PM
crash,
wanna bet me that the offense finishes higher ranked than last year?
scoring?
redzone scoring?

if the defense would generate more turnovers that would also be very beneficial to the offense's ability to score more points...

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 04:38 PM
'Z'at you, Bruce? :o

No. But if Bruce Arians had listened to me he would not have got fired.:D

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 04:42 PM
when we made it to the Super Bowl two years ago, we won the playoff game against the Jets by running the ball effectively to set up the pass. They didn't expect it. And, it worked.

I am not saying throw the ball if running game is successful but priority should be the passing game whereas it looks like Todd haley wants to run the ball more. Maybe i read it wrong.

1st down - i would like to see more pass plays called.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 04:43 PM
Beause the offense and the way they play isn't the problem. It's LeBeau's cowardly, scared, Rich Kotite-esq 4th quarter pu$sy defense that kills this team more than anything.


More than anything except for the inability to score points...

grotonsteel
05-25-2012, 04:49 PM
First of all, CJ wouldn't have done anything behind our o-line of previous years. AP ... well, maybe. You can't have everything. Everyone would like to have AP but that is not realistic for us. If our o-line is significantly improved which is should, Redman will put up very good stats along w/ our other backs.

As far as Ben scrambliing. Scrambling will get Ben hurt again and our SB chances are basically gone. Scrambling needs to be cut back but not eliminated. Some improvising is good. But I don't want Ben running around on 2&8 like a chicken w/ his head cutoff for 2 reasons. Number 1, he'll get hurt. Number 2, it will be 3rd and 18 and we'll likely have to punt. BB needs to get rid of the ball faster so he stays healthy and getting the ball to RBs that are WIDE OPEN is a good choice.

To be frank i am not looking forward to see Steelers version of Tom Brady. Ben does not play like Tom Brady and to be frank he should not.I like Ben when he moves around. Its exciting. With a good O-line he should get more time in the pocket. I think Ben will have more time to get rid of the ball. I am a big fan of vertical offense.

I have rarely seen Ben taking sacks on 2nd and 8. More often than not stupid penalties by te O-line which killed the drives.I don't think Steelers ever had problem moving the ball even with BA as OC. Red Zone offense was the achilles heel and hopefully by drafting O-line and good play calling they should be able to resolve that problem.

Heath Miller and RBs like Rainey and Batch should help in scoring .

Crash
05-25-2012, 05:38 PM
Yep. No need to change Ben. You take the new OL and you ehance what Ben does well.

I guess they have to learn the hard way. At least a Yinzer now runs the offense.

Maybe he can ask Joe Walton for help?

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 05:47 PM
Yep. No need to change Ben. You take the new OL and you ehance what Ben does well.

I guess they have to learn the hard way. At least a Yinzer now runs the offense.

Maybe he can ask Joe Walton for help?


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

(snort) I'm sorry...

Have you looked at how Ben Roethlisberger has performed historically in play action passing?

The site-that-shall-not-be-named actually has a decent write up about it...on the average, Rothlisberger's play action passing numbers were comparable to or even better than Rodgers, Ryan, Schaub and Stafford...the thing is, out of the top 5 play action passers in the NFL last year, Roethlisberger had the fewest attempts...

So instead of changing Ben, why not put more emphasis on the things that he does really well?

Crash
05-25-2012, 05:52 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

(snort) I'm sorry...

Have you looked at how Ben Roethlisberger has performed historically in play action passing?

The site-that-shall-not-be-named actually has a decent write up about it...on the average, Rothlisberger's play action passing numbers were comparable to or even better than Rodgers, Ryan, Schaub and Stafford...the thing is, out of the top 5 play action passers in the NFL last year, Roethlisberger had the fewest attempts...

So instead of changing Ben, why not put more emphasis on the things that he does really well?

Because we have to run the ball and play Stiller Football.

steelz09
05-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Beause the offense and the way they play isn't the problem. It's LeBeau's cowardly, scared, Rich Kotite-esq 4th quarter pu$sy defense that kills this team more than anything.

Ben was ONE regular season win at Tennesee, from winning the NFL MVP award in 2008. Like I said before, you guys act like he stinks and has for years. All because you crave 1970's football.

It's a passing league now gents (especially with no defense in Goodell's world), accept that move on. And if Art II won't? Trade Ben, load up on RBs and defense, and send him on his way.

Didn't Haley say that he was going to play to the Steelers strengths? He knows that our strength is our WRs and Ben. Ben also said that Haley was going to use the no-huddle on more regular basis than previous years. That all points to the passing game. So what, he's implementing a FB which is long overdue and a good decision IMO.

What's wrong w/ being balanced, being unpredictable, adjusting, and playing to your strengths and the opposing teams weaknesses? I don't see the problem here.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 05:55 PM
Because we have to run the ball and play Stiller Football.

Or, maybe you need to run the ball better for play action passing to work...perhaps that's why Ben had the fewest play-action attempts out of the top 5...because the running game wasn't respected...;-)


Or, maybe Arians just didn't like to go with what worked...

steelz09
05-25-2012, 05:59 PM
To be frank i am not looking forward to see Steelers version of Tom Brady. Ben does not play like Tom Brady and to be frank he should not.I like Ben when he moves around. Its exciting. With a good O-line he should get more time in the pocket. I think Ben will have more time to get rid of the ball. I am a big fan of vertical offense.

I have rarely seen Ben taking sacks on 2nd and 8. More often than not stupid penalties by te O-line which killed the drives.I don't think Steelers ever had problem moving the ball even with BA as OC. Red Zone offense was the achilles heel and hopefully by drafting O-line and good play calling they should be able to resolve that problem.

Heath Miller and RBs like Rainey and Batch should help in scoring .

I don't have any stats and nor will I attempt to spend the time to look them up but I can assure you that Ben has takens many sacks that made 3rd downs much more difficult to execute which has turned to punts. Also, there has been multiple times he's taken a sack when we were in field goal range only to take us out of field goal range.

I'm not saying that Ben should completely change the way he plays. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to get the ball out quicker so he stays healthy throughout the year. Yes, if you have to improvise then improvise but don't hold onto the ball for 8 seconds and take a sack because you want a 40 yard pass. Instead, hit the TE or RB 5 yards away (i.e. Rainey or Batch) that can get the new set of downs.

If they mix it up, the big plays will happen and they won't need to be forced.

squidkid
05-25-2012, 06:41 PM
I don't want them to fail. I hope they do better.

Don't insult me by even thinking I would take that bet.


what's the insult?
you get on youir soapbox proclaiming what a great oc arians was and how he utilized ben to the best of his abilities. you make up some bs about rooney saying we have to run the ball every play and that ben wont be throwing the ball at all and he wont be allowed to ever leave the pocket. you give everybody the impression that the offense was great but the defense sucked. you keep preaching about changing the number 1 defense and being happy with the 21st ranked offense. all im doing is asking you to back up all your thoughts and insights. if you really think this offense will handcuff ben and not be as productive as your boy arians, then take the bet.
taking this bet has nothing to do with wanting them to fail, it has evertything to do with walking the walk.

squidkid
05-25-2012, 06:43 PM
You're proposing a pretty easy bet to win. Even if we had changed nothing structurally on O and not gotten rid of BA, we should still be better this year because of a better OL if nothing else. They had musical chairs on that line last year. As long as they stay reasonably healthy this year, the O should be better of in every regard.


okay. how about being better than the average for the last 4 years?

BradshawsHairdresser
05-25-2012, 07:10 PM
Didn't Haley say that he was going to play to the Steelers strengths? He knows that our strength is our WRs and Ben. Ben also said that Haley was going to use the no-huddle on more regular basis than previous years. That all points to the passing game. So what, he's implementing a FB which is long overdue and a good decision IMO.

What's wrong w/ being balanced, being unpredictable, adjusting, and playing to your strengths and the opposing teams weaknesses? I don't see the problem here.

:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap

phillyesq
05-25-2012, 07:18 PM
Didn't Haley say that he was going to play to the Steelers strengths? He knows that our strength is our WRs and Ben. Ben also said that Haley was going to use the no-huddle on more regular basis than previous years. That all points to the passing game. So what, he's implementing a FB which is long overdue and a good decision IMO.

What's wrong w/ being balanced, being unpredictable, adjusting, and playing to your strengths and the opposing teams weaknesses? I don't see the problem here.

Really well said.

Crash
05-26-2012, 12:11 AM
Also, there has been multiple times he's taken a sack when we were in field goal range only to take us out of field goal range.

In 8 years? I would say thats happened LESS than 10 times in his career.

steelnavy
05-26-2012, 01:10 AM
what's the insult?
you get on youir soapbox proclaiming what a great oc arians was and how he utilized ben to the best of his abilities. you make up some bs about rooney saying we have to run the ball every play and that ben wont be throwing the ball at all and he wont be allowed to ever leave the pocket. you give everybody the impression that the offense was great but the defense sucked. you keep preaching about changing the number 1 defense and being happy with the 21st ranked offense. all im doing is asking you to back up all your thoughts and insights. if you really think this offense will handcuff ben and not be as productive as your boy arians, then take the bet.
taking this bet has nothing to do with wanting them to fail, it has evertything to do with walking the walk.

:Clap:Clap:Clap

Really glad that Haley, Tomlin and Art are in charge of the team and NOT Crash. Seriously, you argue the opposite position of every fact that is laid out...

I predict that between the addition of the two new linemen and the loss of BA predictabe play calling, the offense will kick butt, WHATEVER they have Ben doing. And thats what is important.

DBR96A
05-26-2012, 06:55 AM
"An effective running attack will help draw defenders to the line, which will provide the offense with plenty of opportunities to take their shots down field to Wallace and Brown. "

Given Ben's ability to extend plays, my feeling is defense should and would be more inclined to stay back for fear of Brown or Wallace getting deep. I would expect the defensive line to move to a contain the QB type attack. This is when the running lanes should be open up. Play action works well here but in reverse. Use the fake handoff a few times to freeze the db's into pass and the front seven to contain Ben. When they do, go ahead and hand the ball.

(or, in short, pass to set up run).

So if the defense stays deep, throw a short pass.

Crash
05-26-2012, 08:39 AM
:Clap:Clap:Clap

Really glad that Haley, Tomlin and Art are in charge of the team and NOT Crash. Seriously, you argue the opposite position of every fact that is laid out...

I predict that between the addition of the two new linemen and the loss of BA predictabe play calling, the offense will kick butt, WHATEVER they have Ben doing. And thats what is important.

Yeah Haley's a real genius. Just remember, Charlie Weiss isn't on our staff.

Captain Lemming
05-26-2012, 10:45 AM
what's the insult?
you get on youir soapbox proclaiming what a great oc arians was and how he utilized ben to the best of his abilities. you make up some bs about rooney saying we have to run the ball every play and that ben wont be throwing the ball at all and he wont be allowed to ever leave the pocket. you give everybody the impression that the offense was great but the defense sucked. you keep preaching about changing the number 1 defense and being happy with the 21st ranked offense. all im doing is asking you to back up all your thoughts and insights. if you really think this offense will handcuff ben and not be as productive as your boy arians, then take the bet.
taking this bet has nothing to do with wanting them to fail, it has evertything to do with walking the walk.

Squid, Crash already KNOWS what it is like to proclaim something like this and to have your favvorite team prove you wrong.
He thought we would never win the SB under Cowher.

You are elated with the championship while at the same time everyone on the board calls you out for being wrong.

You wind up in a very uncomfortable place when you are proven wrong by the team you love.

SidSmythe
05-26-2012, 11:20 AM
DJ should never i repeat never see the field over Manny or Cotchery. Enough of this stupid run-run-pass offense. Todd Haley was hired for this caveman offense???

Bengals, Raven don't give a damn about Steelers Running Game.

Mike Tomlin against raven in 2012..we are going to tun the ball down the Ravens throat no matter what. Issac Redman stats (17 carries -34 yards)

PS board in meltdown. People cursing offense for the loss. Ben sucks thread all over the place.

Are you serious???
You're going to take ONE game to prove ur point?? (But i would say 17 carries against the Ravens is sticking to the run)
AND....who said ANYTHING about David Johnson "Starting"??? He's being moved to FULLBACK fulltime. Just b/c he's a Full Time FB does that mean our offense will primarily be an I Formation??? or could it be that when we go 2 back sets David Johnson (assuming he makes the cut) will play FB.

Pops8
05-26-2012, 12:20 PM
So if the defense stays deep, throw a short pass.

certainly that is an option, but the discussion I was getting at was run strategy. Specifically: passing to set up the run vs. running to set up pass. I swear some people think running the ball is the eight sin. It isn't. The rules and game favor a passing attack, but running is still a vital part of the game. How you integrate the run into the passing game is the modern strategy vs. how to fit the passing game into the run attacks of my youth.

That said, I have long been a supporter of a short passing game (screens, slants, etc).

Crash
05-26-2012, 12:58 PM
We throw plenty of short passes. That's not an issue.

DukieBoy
05-26-2012, 01:51 PM
Really well said.

x2

And hope we will be rid of the patterned snaps at 2 seconds or less on the play clock. Opponents teed off on our late snaps.

NorthCoast
05-27-2012, 09:27 AM
I'm not so sure true FB will suit DJ. I think W Johnson has a great shot at it because he SHOULD be far more effective in PA. DJ's strong suit wasn't ISO blocks in the A & B gaps and Redman is best when he is downhill attacking the ILBs following an ISO block. Hard to believe W Johnson can't give you at least what DJ gives them in that area & add a better dimension off of PA.

A FB that could clear the trash off of PA and stay on his feet and get in a pattern is a very effective weapon. A FB in the "I" is the ILB read coming through the hole. More often than not, the LB meeting him is responsible for him in coverage if in man. You have an athletic FB who could get seperation off that PA....You get LBs to hesitate & meet the FB 2 yards deeper than they should or the DC has to drop the S off the line. When they start doing that, run game moves the sticks and the clock. You start getting those 5-6 yard runs on 1st down that just kills the DC. 2 & 5 or 2 & 4 is just a nightmare to call against especially when the Steelers go 21 personnel. Factor in Batch or Rainey now in 21 personnel...You get mismatches on the RB....And there is where passing to the RBs becomes a huge part of the offense.

If the plan is to have a full time FB, I am disappointed the Steelers didnt try to find a stud in the draft or free agency. DJ is not the answer, and we are pinning alot on hopes of Johnson being up to the task.

Slapstick
05-27-2012, 11:34 AM
Not really...DJ probably won't have any more responsibility or be on the field any more as a FB...with him now attending meetings with RBs and coached up by Kirby Wilson, I believe he can only improve...

Crash
05-28-2012, 12:33 AM
The only way the offense improves with DJ is by not playing him.

He's horrible. Awful. The Tomlin Era's version of Corey Holliday.

Steel Life
05-28-2012, 06:15 PM
Let's face it...the entire offense has been somewhat ineffective during BA's tenure - especially in the red-zone. Myself & others have long said that the team had succeeded in spite of his direction, where we continually saw everything from an over-reliance on pet plays (WR screen anyone?), predictable play-calling in given situations or personnel (the same WR screen), & an apparent lack of adjustment to game situations (OL's inability to block yet routes still being run deep). Say what you will about Ben holding the ball too long or his desire for heroics, but I'm of the opinion that there are few other QB that could've worked in BA's offense. Ben is unique because he is able to hold the defense off long enough to make things happen & because he sees the big play possibility not just the dump-off. Does he need to dump it off more often? - absolutely, but calling routes that take the blocking & situation into consideration will be a welcome change.

As for the run-game, I'm looking forward to the change with a FB & really hope all our RBs find more success. I really feel we'll find the problems were mostly our past personnel on the line, as too often our RBs found themselves staring defenders in their faces unable to get things going. Where a FB would certainly help in those situations, I'm not counting on that being the difference in our offense...a balanced offense with the continued development of our young WRs could dominate the division for the remainder of Ben's career.

Oviedo
05-29-2012, 07:43 AM
The only way the offense improves with DJ is by not playing him.

He's horrible. Awful. The Tomlin Era's version of Corey Holliday.

Totally agree. On his best day DJ is mediocre. If we want a FB get a real FB not a wanna be.

pfelix73
05-29-2012, 09:29 AM
Ya'll did read that DJ will have competition in camp, right? Let's just relax and wait and see what happens in camp. I don't like DJ either, but with a new approach, OC... Let's just wait and see what happens in camp..Gee whiz, ya'll act like the freaking sky is falling....:D

Oviedo
05-29-2012, 09:38 AM
Ya'll did read that DJ will have competition in camp, right? Let's just relax and wait and see what happens in camp. I don't like DJ either, but with a new approach, OC... Let's just wait and see what happens in camp..Gee whiz, ya'll act like the freaking sky is falling....:D

IMO...competition from an undrafted rookie who has been out of football for essentially one or two years that the coaches found at the WVU Pro Day isn't real competition. If I recall wasn't he a WR or H-back so another guy trying to learn a new position.

If that's what we are doing, just make Legursky the FB and get a two for one on the gameday active roster. Legursky has already proven he is a better short yardage blocker than DJ could ever hope to be.

RuthlessBurgher
05-29-2012, 12:12 PM
IMO...competition from an undrafted rookie who has been out of football for essentially one or two years that the coaches found at the WVU Pro Day isn't real competition. If I recall wasn't he a WR or H-back so another guy trying to learn a new position.

If that's what we are doing, just make Legursky the FB and get a two for one on the gameday active roster. Legursky has already proven he is a better short yardage blocker than DJ could ever hope to be.

Haley said that he wants to throw to the backs more often, and Will Johnson seems to be the type of guy who could do that well (a former WR turned TE in college now turned FB in the pros). I'd be happy with Will Johnson as an option to be our latter-day John L. Williams type of FB who can catch passes out of the backfield, and then using Legursky as the situational Dan Krieder/Tim Lester type of lead blocking FB in short yardage and goal line situations.

flippy
05-29-2012, 04:19 PM
The real reason Haley might be the savior is he might actually push Ben to be great.

BA catered too him too much to his own demise. BA unfairly gets a bad rap around here. His scripted plays worked as good as anyone's. The problem came when we got into the flow of the game and went off script.

Crash
05-29-2012, 05:54 PM
BA catered too him too much to his own demise. BA unfairly gets a bad rap around here.

He does get a bad rap. But not for the reasons you think.

Because he treated Ben like a human being, and not just a piece of meat like Cowher and Whiz did, that gets people saying Whiz "catered" to Ben. When in reality as an OC, BA's infatuation with 2 TE sets was the biggest obstacle Ben and the offense had to deal with.

Let's be honest here, BA and Ben's relationship was never as "close" to the extent that Cowher had with Kordell.

steelblood
05-29-2012, 05:56 PM
The only way the offense improves with DJ is by not playing him.

He's horrible. Awful. The Tomlin Era's version of Corey Holliday.

Or ... the Tomlin Era's Carey Davis (who is also from the Tomlin era). Tomlin (and Arian's) choices for the fullback position have been simply awful.

Slapstick
05-29-2012, 06:33 PM
Or ... the Tomlin Era's Carey Davis (who is also from the Tomlin era). Tomlin (and Arian's) choices for the fullback position have been simply awful.

I believe that Crash was referring to Corey Holliday running the wrong route in SB XXX, leading to Neil O'Donnell throwing one of the INTs that made Larry Brown big bucks with the Raiders...

DJ missed a block on Clay Matthews in SB XLV and Mendenhall got hit as a result...that hit caused Mendenhall to fumble...

flippy
05-29-2012, 07:00 PM
[/COLOR]He does get a bad rap. But not for the reasons you think.

Because he treated Ben like a human being, and not just a piece of meat like Cowher and Whiz did, that gets people saying Whiz "catered" to Ben. When in reality as an OC, BA's infatuation with 2 TE sets was the biggest obstacle Ben and the offense had to deal with.

Let's be honest here, BA and Ben's relationship was never as "close" to the extent that Cowher had with Kordell.

I think BA had the right idea about the TE mismatches. The problem was he didn't have the talent at TE and didn't adjust accordingly.

If we had 2 Heath Millers in BA's offense, I think BA would have looked brilliant. But we didn't and it hurt us a bit.

On the flip side, he made it work in the scripted part of the game. But once we got past that part of the chess match, the caliber of the #2 and #3 TEs showed as a glaring weakness.

I actually think Haley's smart enough to know he has to get along with Ben. And we're going to see a close relationship between the 2 of them. Haley's got a lot of warts and so does Ben and I suspect that will create a unique bond between the 2.

RuthlessBurgher
05-29-2012, 07:08 PM
I think BA had the right idea about the TE mismatches. The problem was he didn't have the talent at TE and didn't adjust accordingly.

If we had 2 Heath Millers in BA's offense, I think BA would have looked brilliant. But we didn't and it hurt us a bit.

On the flip side, he made it work in the scripted part of the game. But once we got past that part of the chess match, the caliber of the #2 and #3 TEs showed as a glaring weakness.

I actually think Haley's smart enough to know he has to get along with Ben. And we're going to see a close relationship between the 2 of them. Haley's got a lot of warts and so does Ben and I suspect that will create a unique bond between the 2.

Trying to run a Gronkowski and Hernandez offense with Matt Spaeth or David Johnson in a primary role next to Heath Miller would be like Francis Ford Coppola filming the Godfather with Al Pacino, Keanu Reeves, and Carrot Top as the Corleone brothers.

flippy
05-30-2012, 10:40 AM
Trying to run a Gronkowski and Hernandez offense with Matt Spaeth or David Johnson in a primary role next to Heath Miller would be like Francis Ford Coppola filming the Godfather with Al Pacino, Keanu Reeves, and Carrot Top as the Corleone brothers.

That's hilarious.

Sugar
05-30-2012, 10:51 AM
I think BA had the right idea about the TE mismatches. The problem was he didn't have the talent at TE and didn't adjust accordingly.

If we had 2 Heath Millers in BA's offense, I think BA would have looked brilliant. But we didn't and it hurt us a bit.

On the flip side, he made it work in the scripted part of the game. But once we got past that part of the chess match, the caliber of the #2 and #3 TEs showed as a glaring weakness.

I actually think Haley's smart enough to know he has to get along with Ben. And we're going to see a close relationship between the 2 of them. Haley's got a lot of warts and so does Ben and I suspect that will create a unique bond between the 2.

This is probably why Indy went after the best TE's in the draft after getting Luck.

Crash
05-30-2012, 12:25 PM
This is probably why Indy went after the best TE's in the draft after getting Luck.

He was also Luck's college teammate. That didn't hurt.

Crash
05-30-2012, 03:10 PM
Per Joe Starkey via Twitter:

My talk with Ben Roethlisberger at 3 p.m., 93.7 The Fan. Ben believes fans want more runs and will "get their wish."

That's FOUR. Three OL's and their offensive captain.

Sugar
05-30-2012, 03:30 PM
Todd Haley will make the Steelers' offense better
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829723ee/article/todd-haley-will-make-the-steelers-offense-better?module=HP11_content_stream (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829723ee/article/todd-haley-will-make-the-steelers-offense-better?module=HP11_content_stream)

steelz09
05-30-2012, 04:05 PM
Per Joe Starkey via Twitter:

My talk with Ben Roethlisberger at 3 p.m., 93.7 The Fan. Ben believes fans want more runs and will "get their wish."

That's FOUR. Three OL's and their offensive captain.

Ben and his sarcasm is killing me. First off, I think we'll be more balanced... I don't think we'll be a ground and pound football team. No way.

Seconday, I'm getting tired of Ben's BS comments. You're supposed to be the leader, start acting like it.

Crash
05-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Ben and his sarcasm is killing me. First off, I think we'll be more balanced... I don't think we'll be a ground and pound football team. No way.

Seconday, I'm getting tired of Ben's BS comments. You're supposed to be the leader, start acting like it.

He is. He's at work. Unlike others.

You want more balance? Then make 1st down 50-50.

Until that happens, you won't see balance.

The point is FOUR DIFFERENT PLAYERS have come out and said they will run the ball MORE.

They all can't be lying, can they?

steelz09
05-30-2012, 04:37 PM
He is. He's at work. Unlike others.

You want more balance? Then make 1st down 50-50.

Until that happens, you won't see balance.

The point is FOUR DIFFERENT PLAYERS have come out and said they will run the ball MORE.

They all can't be lying, can they?

I'm not calling anyone a lier. Can we all just wait until after week 1 to start talking about the percentage of run plays? Trying to guess that now is like trying to predict the winning lottery #'s.

grotonsteel
05-30-2012, 04:42 PM
If Todd Haley runs the ball more i think he might be the dumbest OC ever.

Design plays to your strength and Steelers QB is their strength. Steelers running game sucks. Don't run for the sake of running. I don't want to see stupid run-run-pass Marty ball.

Crash
05-30-2012, 04:44 PM
Or, he could be doing what his ownership wants?

Dude has to eat.

Sugar
05-30-2012, 05:13 PM
Ben and his sarcasm is killing me. First off, I think we'll be more balanced... I don't think we'll be a ground and pound football team. No way.

Seconday, I'm getting tired of Ben's BS comments. You're supposed to be the leader, start acting like it.

I guess I'm trying to figure out what Ben said that was "BS" or showed poor leadership in any way.

flippy
05-30-2012, 10:34 PM
It is a team game. And to truly come up with the best offensive strategy, you must take into account all aspects of the team, including the defense.

We still have a defense built on speed/pressure/splash plays.

A running game helps eat the clock and keeps the D fresh.

The entire team needs balance to win.

A QB won't win a SuperBowl without a Defense. See the Giants for recent proof in the modern NFL.

If we can win with Ben making 10 throws, that's ok by me.

But if Ben's gonna throw 40+ times a game like some want, Lebeau's going to have to adjust his defense a bit. It's clear, we don't have a defense to withstand the shootouts and long periods on the field.

It's been clear, as Ben's stats have improved, the defense has underperformed at the end of games. There's a direct correlation. Someone needs to adjust. Either Haley or Lebeau.

Crash
05-30-2012, 10:54 PM
The defense has played like cow flop in the 4th quarter since LeBeau came back.

Chadman
05-31-2012, 01:37 AM
Nice...not even in TC & we have the offense worked out. Steelers fans truley are the smartest of all football fans.

papillon
05-31-2012, 05:58 AM
I'll take the results of Ben's rookie year, the difference now is that the quarterback is the veteran and if he's managing a 15-1 offense going into the playoffs the Steelers will have a great chance to be the champs again. I'm hoping the same formula will work, pass early and often to open up the lead, then run the ball to shorten the game and have Ben make the plays he's capable of to finish off the game. I see no downside to that style of offense at all, even if it means Ben only throws the ball on average 25 times a game. His completion percentage will be extremely high and his YPA will be off the charts and the offense will be dangerous, IMO.

Pappy

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 06:02 AM
Just score more points. I don't care how.

Eich
05-31-2012, 08:38 AM
Just score more points. I don't care how.

I agree. And I think both Tomlin AND Haley don't care how either. I want both of them to follow up on THEIR words and play to exploit the other team's weaknesses. If that means passing 40+ times in a particular game, great. If it means running 40+ times in some other game, that's great too. SCORE MORE. WIN MORE.

Eich
05-31-2012, 08:44 AM
He is. He's at work. Unlike others.

If Hines Ward was still on the team and was making as many sarcastic remarks that Ben has been making lately, you would CRUICIFY him for doing it.

JUST LIKE HINES WARD, Ben plays with a massive chip on his shoulder. And just like Ward, I'm fine with it as long as it makes him play his best.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 08:46 AM
If Hines Ward was still on the team and was making as many sarcastic remarks that Ben has been making lately, you would CRUICIFY him for doing it.

JUST LIKE HINES WARD, Ben plays with a massive chip on his shoulder. And just like Ward, I'm fine with it as long as it makes him play his best.

QFT...you are exactly right...

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 08:48 AM
I'll take the results of Ben's rookie year, the difference now is that the quarterback is the veteran and if he's managing a 15-1 offense going into the playoffs the Steelers will have a great chance to be the champs again. I'm hoping the same formula will work, pass early and often to open up the lead, then run the ball to shorten the game and have Ben make the plays he's capable of to finish off the game. I see no downside to that style of offense at all, even if it means Ben only throws the ball on average 25 times a game. His completion percentage will be extremely high and his YPA will be off the charts and the offense will be dangerous, IMO.

Pappy

+1

Some people are more concerned with Ben putting up stats or throwing 40+ times a game vs winning with 25 throws like his rookie year. The more times Ben drops back the more chances he has to get hurt. I know it's part of the game but Ben isn't the best at avoiding contact or taking what the D gives.

Throw early... run often.. win games.

It's starting to get old hearing Ben take digs at the fans/Rooneys when mentioning running more. He sounds like he is still butt hurt over losing BA.

Sugar
05-31-2012, 09:58 AM
It's starting to get old hearing Ben take digs at the fans/Rooneys when mentioning running more. He sounds like he is still butt hurt over losing BA.

Again, I'm not seeing a problem here. I haven't heard Ben take any digs, let alone enough to get old.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:00 AM
Just score more points. I don't care how.

The point is, in order to score points, they have to stop trying to create 1975.

Which means when it fails because the other team gets paid too just like offenses do against our defense, people can't complain for the run game.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:02 AM
No cheap shots taken at the Rooney's. People read what they want to read.

Funny though, NO ONE wants to mention how 4 different players have all stated they think they will be running MORE.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 11:21 AM
It is a team game. And to truly come up with the best offensive strategy, you must take into account all aspects of the team, including the defense.

We still have a defense built on speed/pressure/splash plays.

A running game helps eat the clock and keeps the D fresh.

The entire team needs balance to win.

A QB won't win a SuperBowl without a Defense. See the Giants for recent proof in the modern NFL.

If we can win with Ben making 10 throws, that's ok by me.

But if Ben's gonna throw 40+ times a game like some want, Lebeau's going to have to adjust his defense a bit. It's clear, we don't have a defense to withstand the shootouts and long periods on the field.

It's been clear, as Ben's stats have improved, the defense has underperformed at the end of games. There's a direct correlation. Someone needs to adjust. Either Haley or Lebeau.

well unfortunately some Steelers fans can't see that aspect. All they see is 21st scoring offense but neglect TOP by Steelers Offense.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 11:25 AM
The point is, in order to score points, they have to stop trying to create 1975.

Which means when it fails because the other team gets paid too just like offenses do against our defense, people can't complain for the run game.

In order to score points, they have to execute...

Whether they run or throw, they have to be effective...

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:27 AM
Some people are more concerned with Ben putting up stats or throwing 40+ times a game vs winning with 25 throws like his rookie year.

Actually I'm more concerned with winning and using the talent they have.

Yinzers and Art II aren't.

Mark Madden said it best on Monday:

Peyton Manning, in his first year at Denver, is helping design the Broncos' offense. Ben Roethlisberger, in his ninth season at Pittsburgh, is having a new playbook rammed down this throat with zero compromise, not even with terminology. Manning has one Super Bowl ring, Roethlisberger two. In Pittsburgh, no one can be bigger than the logo or the family. .

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:28 AM
In order to score points, they have to execute...

Whether they run or throw, they have to be effective...

And the MINUTE Haley calls for 3 straight red zone pass plays and they fail?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Yinzers don't care about results, they are satisfied with the mere ATTEMPT at running the football.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 11:31 AM
I'll take the results of Ben's rookie year, the difference now is that the quarterback is the veteran and if he's managing a 15-1 offense going into the playoffs the Steelers will have a great chance to be the champs again. I'm hoping the same formula will work, pass early and often to open up the lead, then run the ball to shorten the game and have Ben make the plays he's capable of to finish off the game. I see no downside to that style of offense at all, even if it means Ben only throws the ball on average 25 times a game. His completion percentage will be extremely high and his YPA will be off the charts and the offense will be dangerous, IMO.

Pappy

Sounds good on paper but Steelers do keep running the ball when they get a lead and get screwed when run is not working. You just can't keep running the ball when it is not working and throw 4-5 passes in entire 2nd half. I believe entire Offense goes off rhythm with that style of offense.

Yes it works for Defense but Run-Run-Pass is a recipe of 21st scoring offense in NFL and then Steelers fans keep complaining why don't they score more with all world talent on Offense. Marty Ball is old school.

5 Wide is the way to go. Keep throwing if it is working. Just don't run for making Steeler nation happy.

Run 50 times if it is working but don't freaking give me 20 run plays for 30 yards.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 11:35 AM
And the MINUTE Haley calls for 3 straight red zone pass plays and they fail?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Yinzers don't care about results, they are satisfied with the mere ATTEMPT at running the football.

Wrong...

The MINUTE Haley calls for 3 straight red zone run plays and they fail?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"You have a $100 million QB!! Why are you running so much?!?!?"

The minute Haley calls for 3 straight red zone pass plays and the third one succeeds?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

Yinzers love TDs and winning...

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 11:41 AM
Wrong...

The MINUTE Haley calls for 3 straight red zone run plays and they fail?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"You have a $100 million QB!! Why are you running so much?!?!?"




Why shouldn't the offense go through your 100 million dollar QB??? You are against utilizing the strength of Steelers offense?

Do we have AP or CJ as a RB and T-jack at QB that we should emphasis more on run plays than pass plays??

To me it defies logic.

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:45 AM
Wrong...

The MINUTE Haley calls for 3 straight red zone run plays and they fail?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"You have a $100 million QB!! Why are you running so much?!?!?"

The minute Haley calls for 3 straight red zone pass plays and the third one succeeds?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

Yinzers love TDs and winning...

Legit question here: How much time have you spent in Pittsburgh during seasons? Either at games on in the city prior to them? Sports talk radio? Sports shows, etc?

Start listening to them on a regular basis. Then you'll see what I'm talking about.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 12:08 PM
The point is, in order to score points, they have to stop trying to create 1975.

The point is, in order to run a successful play-action passing game, they have to establish a running game.

The only one who keeps blabbering on about 1975 is you.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 12:15 PM
Wrong...

The MINUTE Haley calls for 3 straight red zone run plays and they fail?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"You have a $100 million QB!! Why are you running so much?!?!?"

The minute Haley calls for 3 straight red zone pass plays and the third one succeeds?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

Yinzers love TDs and winning...

Exactly. Crash's whole "Yinzers don't care about results, they are satisfied with the mere ATTEMPT at running the football" take is pure unadulterated rubbish. I'm at Heinz for every game (have missed less than 5 games in the last decade because of treacherous winter road conditions and I have a 300 mile drive to Pittsburgh), and I have never heard a single person complain about the play call if the result is a touchdown (although I have heard plenty of people complain about unsuccessful, predictable run-run-pass play calling). Granted, the only sports talk radio I listen to in Pittsburgh is about an hour's worth of pre-game on my drive in and an hour's worth of post-game on my drive out before I lose the radio signal and have to switch back to Sirius. I could care less if we run more or pass more...as long as we score more.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 12:22 PM
Why shouldn't the offense go through your 100 million dollar QB??? You are against utilizing the strength of Steelers offense?

Do we have AP or CJ as a RB and T-jack at QB that we should emphasis more on run plays than pass plays??

To me it defies logic.

The offense should go through the $100 million QB. The only person saying that it isn't is Crash...

What I'm saying is this:

When a TD is scored, no one cares if it is a pass or a run...both count as 6 points...

When the team fails to score a TD, no one cares if it was three straight passes, three straight runs, or any combination thereof...

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 12:24 PM
Legit question here: How much time have you spent in Pittsburgh during seasons? Either at games on in the city prior to them? Sports talk radio? Sports shows, etc?

Start listening to them on a regular basis. Then you'll see what I'm talking about.

Win Super Bowls and nobody complains...Steeler fans are spoiled...

Crash
05-31-2012, 12:26 PM
No kidding Slap. But teams don't score every time they see the red zone. That's not reality.

The issue here, is what fans/Art think when they don't score? What should they do?

Yinzers believe running the ball cures everything.

Crash
05-31-2012, 12:27 PM
Win Super Bowls and nobody complains...Steeler fans are spoiled...

People were complaining about Arians all during 2008. People are so hell bent on protecting this defense that their 4th quarter meltdown in SB XLIII gets blamed on the Steelers OFFENSE.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 12:32 PM
No kidding Slap. But teams don't score every time they see the red zone. That's not reality.

The issue here, is what fans/Art think when they don't score? What should they do?

Yinzers believe running the ball cures everything.

Except when it does not result in winning...

I'll take the quote from Coach Tomlin:


Every day I walk by five Lombardi Trophies, not five rushing titles.

Of course, thanks to that thinking, where winning is the most important thing, Coach now walks by sixLombardi Trophies....

Crash
05-31-2012, 12:37 PM
I'll take the quote from Coach Tomlin:

Of course, thanks to that thinking, where winning is the most important thing, Coach now walks by sixLombardi Trophies....

And what happened after 2009? Tomlin changed, he apparently agreed with II that they needed to commit to the running game rather than admit his 4th quarter defense stunk.

steelnavy
05-31-2012, 12:42 PM
If Todd Haley runs the ball more i think he might be the dumbest OC ever.

Design plays to your strength and Steelers QB is their strength. Steelers running game sucks. Don't run for the sake of running. I don't want to see stupid run-run-pass Marty ball.

So because the Steelers run game sucked last year, then it sucks this year? So NOTHING has changed since then? Do you think that maybe it sucked because of BA's poor play design/calling? Maybe a better coach could take the same players and make them play better? And maybe a number 1 and 2 O line draft pick might also help with the ability to run? So are you REALLY going to stick with "Steelers run game sucks" in the present tense?!?

Sugar
05-31-2012, 12:48 PM
So because the Steelers run game sucked last year, then it sucks this year? So NOTHING has changed since then? Do you think that maybe it sucked because of BA's poor play design/calling? Maybe a better coach could take the same players and make them play better? And maybe a number 1 and 2 O line draft pick might also help with the ability to run? So are you REALLY going to stick with "Steelers run game sucks" in the present tense?!?

It's my belief that the run game and the O in general would be better even if BA was still here due to the improvement in personnel. Of course, injuries can be a real problem. But I don't go into the season expecting we'll see nearly what we did last year.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 01:01 PM
The run game would have improved over night if they inserted Redman more behind that OL last year. Mend wasn't built to run behind that OL.

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:02 PM
Not being predictable he wouldn't have been. 3rd and 2 in Houston. Draw to Redman, STUFFED.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 01:09 PM
Not being predictable he wouldn't have been. 3rd and 2 in Houston. Draw to Redman, STUFFED.

Well, the predictable play caller from last year isn't here anymore either...:HeadBanger

Eich
05-31-2012, 01:11 PM
And what happened after 2009? Tomlin changed, he apparently agreed with II that they needed to commit to the running game rather than admit his 4th quarter defense stunk.


The Defense consistently ranks ahead of our offense, sometimes well ahead, in terms of points scored/allowed. Only two times in Ben's career has the defense ever ranked worse than 3rd in the league in points allowed. In that same time, the offense has never ranked higher than 9th in terms of points scored.

THIS IS AN OFFENSIVE-ORIENTED LEAGUE, HELL BENT ON SCORING POINTS. RANKING 21st ON POINTS SCORED IS AWFUL !!!

Offense and Defense ranking on POINTS scored/allowed.

2011: Offense 21st, Defense 1st
2010: Offense 12th, Defense 1st
2009: Offense 12th, Defense 12th
2008: Offense 20th, Defense 1st
2007: Offense 9th, Defense 2nd
2006: Offense 12th, Defense 11th
2005: Offense 9th, Defense 3rd
2004: Offense 11th, Defense 1st

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:11 PM
Well, the predictable play caller from last year isn't here anymore either...:HeadBanger

But apparently, according to four different players, we are going to run MORE.

And we ran on 58% of 1st downs, and 65% of 1st downs in the RZ.

If those players are accurate in their words? How can they NOT be predictable if they are going to run even MORE?

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:14 PM
THIS IS AN OFFENSIVE-ORIENTED LEAGUE, HELL BENT ON SCORING POINTS. RANKING 21st ON POINTS SCORED IS AWFUL !!!

I agree with you. So tell me smart guy, if this is an "offensive-oriented league, hell bent on scoring points", why in hell is this team shelling out almost $139 MILLION on three defensive players like they did last off season?

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 01:18 PM
I agree with you. So tell me smart guy, if this is an "offensive-oriented league, hell bent on scoring points", why in hell is this team shelling out almost $139 MILLION on three defensive players like they did last off season?

Ummm...it's probably a good idea to try to stop the other teams' offense that is hell bent on scoring points too. That's helps. :roll:

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:20 PM
Ummm...it's probably a good idea to try to stop the other teams' offense that is hell bent on scoring points too. That's helps. :roll:

But $139 million worth? Why not "balance" it out?

What are people going to say if they let Wallace go? Arians isn't here anymore to blame.

Eich
05-31-2012, 01:30 PM
I agree with you. So tell me smart guy, if this is an "offensive-oriented league, hell bent on scoring points", why in hell is this team shelling out almost $139 MILLION on three defensive players like they did last off season?

If you agree with me smart guy, then why are you blaming Lebeau and 4th quarter defense on anything? I can understand you complaining about spending too much on defense but defensive performance is not the issue with this team getting another ring (outside of the injury-ridden disaster against the Broncos last year, in which the offense and defense tried to out-pathetic each other).

The Steelers shelled out $100M to Ben and tolerated all his issues, they have fantastic skill-position weapons and now they went out and got some high draft pics on the offensive line and replaced our predictable play-caller. Stop complaining for the sake of complaining until we can see what they're able to do.

birtikidis
05-31-2012, 01:34 PM
I've always said we should just let guys like Troy go. Who needs once in a lifetime guys? Hell we shouldn't EVER extend a DOPY. We should also get into as many bidding wars with other teams players as often as possible. We should also reach in the daft whenever possible. Lastly we should trade away our draft picks to build an offensive juggernaut.

birtikidis
05-31-2012, 01:35 PM
We should also only hire offensive coordinators who can run the bubble screen to perfection. And when they can't, we should practice it as often as possible against teams like Baltimore

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 01:38 PM
But $139 million worth? Why not "balance" it out?

What are people going to say if they let Wallace go? Arians isn't here anymore to blame.

Who on offense deserved that money over the last few seasons? We were paying the RB's and WR's relatively inexpensive rookie contracts, and the o-linemen sucked. Ben got paid and Heath got paid. They deserve it. Should we have given more money to Chris Kemoeatu?

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:44 PM
Who on offense deserved that money over the last few seasons? We were paying the RB's and WR's relatively inexpensive rookie contracts, and the o-linemen sucked. Ben got paid and Heath got paid. They deserve it. Should we have given more money to Chris Kemoeatu?

So there were no outside free agents anywhere that could help this team on either offense or defense?

Crash
05-31-2012, 01:47 PM
If you agree with me smart guy, then why are you blaming Lebeau and 4th quarter defense on anything?

Because I'm sick of Dick LeBeau's prevent defense. It adds nothing to this team. They don't take time off the clock, nor prevent points when they do it. It basically giving points away.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 01:56 PM
So there were no outside free agents anywhere that could help this team on either offense or defense?

Yeah...outside free agents...you follow this team closely.

Crash
05-31-2012, 02:05 PM
Yeah...outside free agents...you follow this team closely.

A whole slew? No.

A free agent here or there to shore up a weakness? Why not? It's 2012, not 1993.

Once again, the obsession with keeping things "the old fashioned way" hinders the progress of the PRESENT.

What will be hilariously sad is when they let Wallace walk after he sits all year, when they could have had Randy Moss for around the same money ($2.5 mil) that Wallace apparently won't sign for.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 02:12 PM
THIS IS AN OFFENSIVE-ORIENTED LEAGUE, HELL BENT ON SCORING POINTS. RANKING 21st ON POINTS SCORED IS AWFUL !!!




So to improve on that lets install pass happy offense (5 Wide). Steelers strength on offense is Ben, Wallace, AB and Heath Miller. These are our best Offensive weapons.

But Steelers FO insist we will run the ball down the throat of our opponent even though we can't run the ball.

Lets go for Run-Run-Pass marty ball to keep the Defense fresh and make offense a scapegoat because Steelers Nation treats their offense as a step child.

Crash
05-31-2012, 02:15 PM
Ding ding ding!

They don't need 5 wide. A 3 wide base offense with a RB and Heath Miller IMO would win the AFC.

DJ? Bench. Only on select goal line formations and scrap time.

Do that? Then talk to me about how they VALUE the offense.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 02:16 PM
The offense should go through the $100 million QB. The only person saying that it isn't is Crash...

What I'm saying is this:

When a TD is scored, no one cares if it is a pass or a run...both count as 6 points...

When the team fails to score a TD, no one cares if it was three straight passes, three straight runs, or any combination thereof...

I don't care how they score. If its 3 Run plays so be it. If they run 50 times so be it.

But Offense has to go through Ben to be successful. Running Backs are not Steelers strength.

I don't want Run-Run-Pass Marty Ball. And looking at the quotes i am thinking that is going to be the gameplan.Enough of TOP game plan.

Be predictable on offense and they are going to struggle. Steelers have to go for kill and if that means quick strike offense so be it.

Slapstick
05-31-2012, 03:07 PM
I don't care how they score. If its 3 Run plays so be it. If they run 50 times so be it.

But Offense has to go through Ben to be successful. Running Backs are not Steelers strength.

I don't want Run-Run-Pass Marty Ball. And looking at the quotes i am thinking that is going to be the gameplan.Enough of TOP game plan.

Be predictable on offense and they are going to struggle. Steelers have to go for kill and if that means quick strike offense so be it.

I agree...run-run-pass is a recipe for failure...

The Steelers may have run 58% on 1st down, but only ran on 44% of offensive plays...

If the 1st down run % is lower, but the overall run % is higher (closer to 47-48%, for example), would that not be less predictable?

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 03:14 PM
quick strike offense? lol... yeah right. Not with Ben at QB. That's not his strength.. Ben's strength is play action and sandlot and I'm OK with that but I doubt we will ever have a quick strike offense unless we are playing the Packers D from 2009.

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:20 PM
Not with Ben at QB. That's not his strength

You can't watch this team. It's not possible.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 03:39 PM
quick strike offense? lol... yeah right. Not with Ben at QB. That's not his strength.. Ben's strength is play action and sandlot and I'm OK with that but I doubt we will ever have a quick strike offense unless we are playing the Packers D from 2009.

Hmm..Steelers Offense has more 20 yards+ plays than any other offense in NFL or atleast its in Top 5.

With Wallace, AB, Chris rainey, Manny, heath Miller, Mendy and Baron batch why should be it a problem?

The only problem with that offense is Steelers D will be up in arms and giving statement we need to run the ball more next day.

Oviedo
05-31-2012, 03:45 PM
Yeah...outside free agents...you follow this team closely.

I find the new picture in your signature somewhat unsettling. It hurts my eyes.

Crash
05-31-2012, 03:47 PM
Hmm..Steelers Offense has more 20 yards+ plays than any other offense in NFL or atleast its in Top 5.

With Wallace, AB, Chris rainey, Manny, heath Miller, Mendy and Baron batch why should be it a problem?

The only problem with that offense is Steelers D will be up in arms and giving statement we need to run the ball more next day.

Yep. Guys like Troy will claim they can't score too quick because the defense isn't built for it.

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 04:00 PM
A whole slew? No.

A free agent here or there to shore up a weakness? Why not? It's 2012, not 1993.

Once again, the obsession with keeping things "the old fashioned way" hinders the progress of the PRESENT.

What will be hilariously sad is when they let Wallace walk after he sits all year, when they could have had Randy Moss for around the same money ($2.5 mil) that Wallace apparently won't sign for.

Randy Moss is the answer? The Randy Moss who caught 9 passes for New England, 13 passes for Minnesota, and 6 passes for Tennessee in 2010, and then sat on his couch in 2011? That guy? :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 04:02 PM
Ding ding ding!

They don't need 5 wide. A 3 wide base offense with a RB and Heath Miller IMO would win the AFC.

DJ? Bench. Only on select goal line formations and scrap time.

Do that? Then talk to me about how they VALUE the offense.

I actually agree with all of this. Now I'm scared...;)

Crash
05-31-2012, 04:04 PM
Randy Moss is the answer? The Randy Moss who caught 9 passes for New England, 13 passes for Minnesota, and 6 passes for Tennessee in 2010, and then sat on his couch in 2011? That guy?

The guy's who's motivated. Randy Moss (if Alex Smith can throw) will score 10 TDs in 2012.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 04:18 PM
If the 1st down run % is lower, but the overall run % is higher (closer to 47-48%, for example), would that not be less predictable?

Yes it will be less predictable.

Make 3rd down short and manageable. You bring run into play. It could be Redman or Baron Batch time.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 04:23 PM
The guy's who's motivated. Randy Moss (if Alex Smith can throw) will score 10 TDs in 2012. [/COLOR]

"I play when i play" Randy Moss could score 10 TD but if Alex Smith struggles i think Randy Moss will take plays off. It will be interesting though in SF. With Harbaugh and Moss that sideline could be fun.

Tribute to Randy Moss " Mr One Clap":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmJcUlrkMNg

Crash
05-31-2012, 04:25 PM
Everyone takes plays off though. He just had the nerve to say it.

Hines did it, he had to, they all do. Preserving your body at WR is key.

Oviedo
05-31-2012, 04:26 PM
I actually agree with all of this. Now I'm scared...;)

It does make sense.

Your signature picture gives me nightmares

RuthlessBurgher
05-31-2012, 04:28 PM
It does make sense.

Your signature picture gives me nightmares

Dreaming of platypus playing the keytar...:D

Eich
05-31-2012, 05:10 PM
Because I'm sick of Dick LeBeau's prevent defense. It adds nothing to this team. They don't take time off the clock, nor prevent points when they do it. It basically giving points away.

Offense and Defense ranking on POINTS scored/allowed.

2011: Offense 21st, Defense 1st
2010: Offense 12th, Defense 1st
2009: Offense 12th, Defense 12th
2008: Offense 20th, Defense 1st
2007: Offense 9th, Defense 2nd
2006: Offense 12th, Defense 11th
2005: Offense 9th, Defense 3rd
2004: Offense 11th, Defense 1st

Sorry - the OFFENSE"s inability to put up points is what you should be sick of. It's an OFFENSIVE League and despite the rules being in IT'S favor, we are struggling to be better than 12th place and twice in Ben's carrer, we've been 20th or worse.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 05:16 PM
Sorry - the OFFENSE"s inability to put up points is what you should be sick of. It's an OFFENSIVE League and despite the rules being in IT'S favor, we are struggling to be better than 12th place and twice in Ben's carrer, we've been 20th or worse.

Just a small correction. Its an Offensive league and rules favor the PASSING team more.

Crash
05-31-2012, 05:27 PM
Offense and Defense ranking on POINTS scored/allowed.

2011: Offense 21st, Defense 1st
2010: Offense 12th, Defense 1st
2009: Offense 12th, Defense 12th
2008: Offense 20th, Defense 1st
2007: Offense 9th, Defense 2nd
2006: Offense 12th, Defense 11th
2005: Offense 9th, Defense 3rd
2004: Offense 11th, Defense 1st

Sorry - the OFFENSE"s inability to put up points is what you should be sick of. It's an OFFENSIVE League and despite the rules being in IT'S favor, we are struggling to be better than 12th place and twice in Ben's carrer, we've been 20th or worse.

Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow.

Class dismissed.

feltdizz
05-31-2012, 05:54 PM
Hmm..Steelers Offense has more 20 yards+ plays than any other offense in NFL or atleast its in Top 5.

With Wallace, AB, Chris rainey, Manny, heath Miller, Mendy and Baron batch why should be it a problem?

The only problem with that offense is Steelers D will be up in arms and giving statement we need to run the ball more next day.

20+ yard plays didn't translate into touchdowns.

Every year we hear about how awesome the O will be and every year it disappoints. I would love to see this offense explode but Ben had his chance with BA and it wasn't that explosive.

If Ben thinks we will run more and he is hesitant about the playbook then its a good thing IMO. Ben loved an offense that was tough to watch more times than not.

birtikidis
05-31-2012, 05:58 PM
Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow.

Class dismissed.
You mean the joe flaccid that was given 7 turnovers in one game, pretty much all from Ben? That joe flaccid? Btw I love the iPads autocorrect of joe flaccid

birtikidis
05-31-2012, 06:00 PM
20+ yard plays didn't translate into touchdowns.
We were great between the 20's. That's All those 20+ yd pass plays got us though

Crash
05-31-2012, 06:04 PM
You mean the joe flaccid that was given 7 turnovers in one game, pretty much all from Ben? That joe flaccid? Btw I love the iPads autocorrect of joe flaccid

Before Ben took the field? Flacco and his offense needed three plays to take the lead in game #1.

Before Ben took the field in game #2? Flacco and his offense scored on their first possession in that game as well.

I guess that's Ben's fault too.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 06:11 PM
20+ yard plays didn't translate into touchdowns.

Every year we hear about how awesome the O will be and every year it disappoints. I would love to see this offense explode but Ben had his chance with BA and it wasn't that explosive.

If Ben thinks we will run more and he is hesitant about the playbook then its a good thing IMO. Ben loved an offense that was tough to watch more times than not.

How about some consistency? 25 O-linemen combination. The most in NFL. You expect this Offense to perform when you are not sure who your LT Tackle is???


Injuries played a major part. I am pretty sure if it was not for Ben's bum ankle Offense would have been Top-15 easy.

Steelers offense will do fine as long as they stay away from 2 TE sets and Todd haley does not fall in love with DJ the FB.

Crash
05-31-2012, 06:20 PM
Injuries never matter for the OL. Only the defense.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 06:24 PM
Injuries never matter for the OL. Only the defense.

:D

So true....

Its okay to keep changing your WRs..or your O-linemen. Hey Steelers O-line and WR positions are plug and play. Never mind if they know the play book or team chemistry.

DukieBoy
05-31-2012, 06:49 PM
20+ yard plays didn't translate into touchdowns.

Every year we hear about how awesome the O will be and every year it disappoints. I would love to see this offense explode but Ben had his chance with BA and it wasn't that explosive.

If Ben thinks we will run more and he is hesitant about the playbook then its a good thing IMO. Ben loved an offense that was tough to watch more times than not.


+1 Those 20+ yard big plays did not work from inside the 10 and goal to go. This offense must get better inside the RZ.

Crash
05-31-2012, 07:21 PM
+1 Those 20+ yard big plays did not work from inside the 10 and goal to go. This offense must get better inside the RZ.

Then start using your $100 million QB.

birtikidis
05-31-2012, 08:54 PM
Then start using your $100 million QB.


Before Ben took the field? Flacco and his offense needed three plays to take the lead in game #1.

Before Ben took the field in game #2? Flacco and his offense scored on their first possession in that game as well.

I guess that's Ben's fault too.
7 turnover later....
game two we had the chance to seal it... Until our 100 million dollar qb decided to take alllllllll the time on the play clock, like usual, only this time we get a delay of game penalty taking us out of field goal position. Losing that game hurt. But blaming it solely on the defense is ludicrous. This is offense driven league now. And ours is impotent.

Crash
05-31-2012, 09:01 PM
Until our 100 million dollar qb decided to take alllllllll the time on the play clock, like usual, only this time we get a delay of game penalty taking us out of field goal position.

Um, Ben was on the sidelines when they took the delay of game, and the FG unit was on the field, with the clock stopped because of an incomplete pass.

Next?

Crash
05-31-2012, 11:58 PM
By the way, below is the number of days the Steelers have spent working on red zone offense with savior and local hero Todd Haley:














































































































.

RuthlessBurgher
06-01-2012, 10:09 AM
By the way, below is the number of days the Steelers have spent working on red zone offense with savior and local hero Todd Haley

They've had, what, 6 OTA's to this point? When installing a new offense, it's probably wise to make sure that everyone is on the same page with the base offense before you start getting into specialty offensive sets. Just a thought. They still have another week of OTA's, a mandatory minicamp, and a month of training camp to work on that. I'm sure your favorite golf coach didn't just forget about red zone offense.

phillyesq
06-01-2012, 10:18 AM
Perhaps it is not predetermined that the Steelers are moving back to 1975 afterall:


Dale Lolley (http://www.blogger.com/profile/13089003781188560287) said... I don't know at this point that anyone knows what is in store for this offense. Purely conjecture at this point.
He ran a wide-open offense in Arizona that never threw to the tight ends. He ran the ball like crazy at KC.

I think you can take from that the fact that he will play to the team's strengths.


(emphasis added)

Oviedo
06-01-2012, 10:28 AM
They've had, what, 6 OTA's to this point? When installing a new offense, it's probably wise to make sure that everyone is on the same page with the base offense before you start getting into specialty offensive sets. Just a thought. They still have another week of OTA's, a mandatory minicamp, and a month of training camp to work on that. I'm sure your favorite golf coach didn't just forget about red zone offense.

I know there is one WR who doesn't buy into "it's probably wise to make sure that everyone is on the same page with the base offense before you start getting into specialty offensive sets."

RuthlessBurgher
06-01-2012, 03:26 PM
I know there is one WR who doesn't buy into "it's probably wise to make sure that everyone is on the same page with the base offense before you start getting into specialty offensive sets."

All of the wide receivers on the team currently have a copy of Haley's playbook in their possession.

Oviedo
06-01-2012, 03:53 PM
All of the wide receivers on the team currently have a copy of Haley's playbook in their possession.

I guess one is just a genius and just has to sleep with it under his pillow while others actually put the book into practice on the field.

Slapstick
06-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Before Ben took the field? Flacco and his offense needed three plays to take the lead in game #1.

Before Ben took the field in game #2? Flacco and his offense scored on their first possession in that game as well.

I guess that's Ben's fault too.

So, the 7 turnovers are okay then?

Got it...

Crash
06-01-2012, 06:52 PM
So, the 7 turnovers are okay then?

Got it...

Not at all. But also realize when some of the turnovers happened also.

Mewelde Moore fumbling down 28 points really doesn't mean a whole helluva lot.

Ben had one turnover after the first half, and the next time he threw a pass in that game? They were down 29-7.

Let's blame him and absolve the defense.

Captain Lemming
06-03-2012, 11:04 PM
The guy's who's motivated. Randy Moss (if Alex Smith can throw) will score 10 TDs in 2012. [/COLOR]

Yes, THAT Randy Moss. We have TWO rings since Crash has been wanting to get Moss (started when the Raiders got him). He has no rings despite being paired with Tom Brady. They got no rings since they did that. :)

Crash. the Steeler way works dude.

You mock Snyder while you want us to be just like him.

Eich
06-04-2012, 08:36 AM
Yes, THAT Randy Moss. We have TWO rings since Crash has been wanting to get Moss (started when the Raiders got him). He has no rings despite being paired with Tom Brady. They got no rings since they did that. :)

Crash. the Steeler way works dude.

You mock Snyder while you want us to be just like him.


That's what's HILARIOUS!!! Crash wants or wanted the Steelers to pursue guys like Randy Moss, Terrel Owens (says Hines Ward's been a worse team cancer), Antonio Bryant, Jeff George, Drew Henson, etc... Then he discredits the Steelers front office like they have no idea what they're doing "I played as many games in the NFL as Rooney", "Steelers don't value Ben", "bringing in Haley is not good", "shouldn't ask Ben to tweak his game", blah, blah blah !!

Some of the predictions are priceless. Like early in this offseason, when the Steelers finally got rid of Arians, Crash was convinced that the Steelers were getting rid of Ben for a $60M cost savings. It couldn't have been because our highly talented offense ranked 21st in scoring.

The Steelers are regarded as one of the finest organizations in football but if an alien read Crash's posts, he'd think we were in need of a managment dump.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-04-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I think some of you are concerned this offense is going to do a 180 and go back to the days of "3 yards and a cloud of dust" Steeler football. That isn't what you will see. "Dedication to the run game" doesn't mean calling 3 run plays and punting during a game. Dedication to the run game starts in practice and the playbook. Being more efficient when you do it and where you do it. Between the 20's, Redzone, Goaline, and 3rd down. All different characteristics. That is where the dedication was lacking under BA. BA obviously put alot of confidence in his WRs atheltic abilities would back off DCs. That was evident in his play calling. He put alot of hope in that fact and it would filter into the running game to make it more productive. However, BA came up against better football minds and guys who could run with his WRs & that is where he struggled. You have to be able to run when you need to run. You have to be able to show the ability to make a defense adjust to your run game if they try and compensate to the pass. Between the 20s...It has to be a concern for a DC with this WR group. That is where the explosiveness of this offense hinges on. If they have to commit that extra body in the box because of it...This offense excels. Like I said, that is all done in the meeting rooms, on the practice field, and in the playbook. You just can't hope it happens when you dial it up in game. Don't think of it as a new identity...Think of it as a change in identity. Meaning, the things we couldn't do well will be improved.

The simple goal in football is imposing youR will. Making a team play on their heels. Todays NFL has shown you can do it through the air & on the ground. If you do it through the air...You have to be able to exploit that on the ground when needed. One thing that doesn't change is redzone offense. Between the 20s is down & distance football. Redzone is a whole different animal. Deficiencies comes out in the Redzone. That is where a team that can impose their will scores more points. A more atheltically talented offense levels out to the defense when the field is shortened. That is the Steelers O at the WR positions. The make-up of the O is simple to see for all. The Steelers don't have the physical presence at WR to exploit "IF" the Steelers redzone running offense threatened the D. They go hand in hand. You need the D to walk up the S and go single S high keying run to pass and get the 1 on 1 outside. You won't get the same respect for Wallace & Brown in the redzone as you do between the 20s. So that is a check "NO" for the Steelers. The same can be said about the TE off of PA. Redzone running offense threatening the D is essential to utilize the Steeler TEs off of PA in the redzone. The Steelers have "old school" TEs. Nothing wrong with that. They just don't have atheltic mismatch TEs like the Pats & others to utilize in the redzone. So their personnel group at TE is best utilized out of PA. We all know what makes the PA most effective and that is the running game. That doesn't change in the redzone but redzone rushing is even more difficult to make productive for reasons listed above. It takes dedication to get there and let's be honest...Talent on the OL helps. The Steelers "Should" have no excuse now in that department. Simply put...The Steelers have to get better at running the ball when the defense knows it is coming in the redzone. Imposing their will. It is the catalyst of the Steelers redzone offense and essential to the Steelers offense scoring TDs rather than kicking FGs.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:34 AM
Some of the predictions are priceless. Like early in this offseason, when the Steelers finally got rid of Arians, Crash was convinced that the Steelers were getting rid of Ben for a $60M cost savings. It couldn't have been because our highly talented offense ranked 21st in scoring.

And the defense only forcing 15 turnovers doesn't hurt scoring?

The defense's inability to get off the field to start games doesn't hurt scoring?

You can't demand a commitment to the run, go 75-80 yards to score the majority of your points because you don't get cheap possessions because your defense forces 15 turnovers all year, and be all that surprised about lack of scoring.

But they'll give Dick LeBeau a free pass even though in their last two playoff games? 630 yards and 5 TD passes given up.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:36 AM
They don't value Ben. If the media reports are true that Ben wasn't kept in the loop when Haley was hired? That's laughable.

Ben said he was, I hope he's right.

feltdizz
06-04-2012, 10:47 AM
They don't value Ben. If the media reports are true that Ben wasn't kept in the loop when Haley was hired? That's laughable.

Ben said he was, I hope he's right.

you hope he's right? LOL..

Oviedo
06-04-2012, 10:51 AM
I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I think some of you are concerned this offense is going to do a 180 and go back to the days of "3 yards and a cloud of dust" Steeler football. That isn't what you will see. "Dedication to the run game" doesn't mean calling 3 run plays and punting during a game. Dedication to the run game starts in practice and the playbook. Being more efficient when you do it and where you do it. Between the 20's, Redzone, Goaline, and 3rd down. All different characteristics. That is where the dedication was lacking under BA. BA obviously put alot of confidence in his WRs atheltic abilities would back off DCs. That was evident in his play calling. He put alot of hope in that fact and it would filter into the running game to make it more productive. However, BA came up against better football minds and guys who could run with his WRs & that is where he struggled. You have to be able to run when you need to run. You have to be able to show the ability to make a defense adjust to your run game if they try and compensate to the pass. Between the 20s...It has to be a concern for a DC with this WR group. That is where the explosiveness of this offense hinges on. If they have to commit that extra body in the box because of it...This offense excels. Like I said, that is all done in the meeting rooms, on the practice field, and in the playbook. You just can't hope it happens when you dial it up in game. Don't think of it as a new identity...Think of it as a change in identity. Meaning, the things we couldn't do well will be improved.

The simple goal in football is imposing you will. Making a team play on their heals. Todays NFL has shown you can do it through the air & on the ground. If you do it through the air...You have to be able to exploit that on the ground when needed. One thing that doesn't change is redzone offense. Between the 20s is down & distance football. Redzone is a whole different animal. Deficiencies comes out in the Redzone. That is where a team that can impose their will scores more points. A more atheltically talented offense levels out to the defense when the field is shortened. That is the Steelers O at the WR positions. The make-up of the O is simple to see for all. The Steelers don't have the physical presence at WR to exploit "IF" the Steelers redzone running offense threatened the D. They go hand in hand. You need the D to walk up the S and go single S high keying run to pass and get the 1 on 1 outside. You won't get the same respect for Wallace & Brown in the redzone as you do between the 20s. So that is a check "NO" for the Steelers. The same can be said about the TE off of PA. Redzone running offense threatening the D is essential to utilize the Steeler TEs off of PA in the redzone. The Steelers have "old school" TEs. Nothing wrong with that. They just don't have atheltic mismatch TEs like the Pats & others to utilize in the redzone. So their personnel group at TE is best utilized out of PA. We all know what makes the PA most effective and that is the running game. That doesn't change in the redzone but redzone rushing is even more difficult to make productive for reasons listed above. It takes dedication to get there and let's be honest...Talent on the OL helps. The Steelers "Should" have no excuse now in that department. Simply put...The Steelers have to get better at running the ball when the defense knows it is coming in the redzone. Imposing their will. It is the catalyst of the Steelers redzone offense and essential to the Steelers offense scoring TDs rather than kicking FGs.

Very good post and totally agree.

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 10:52 AM
And the defense only forcing 15 turnovers doesn't hurt scoring?

The defense's inability to get off the field to start games doesn't hurt scoring?

You can't demand a commitment to the run, go 75-80 yards to score the majority of your points because you don't get cheap possessions because your defense forces 15 turnovers all year, and be all that surprised about lack of scoring.

But they'll give Dick LeBeau a free pass even though in their last two playoff games? 630 yards and 5 TD passes given up.


[/COLOR]

The offense also gave up 4 turnovers in those last two losses...including a pick 6...

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:52 AM
you hope he's right? LOL..

Yep. Because if he wasn't? Wow.

Crash
06-04-2012, 10:54 AM
The offense also gave up 4 turnovers in those last two losses...including a pick 6...

More excuses. As usual. The turnovers were even against Denver and the joke Tebow killed them.

Slapstick
06-04-2012, 11:25 AM
More excuses. As usual. The turnovers were even against Denver and the joke Tebow killed them.

And against Green Bay?

steelblood
06-04-2012, 11:37 AM
I've read 4 different threads and the final two pages of each look exactly the same. I'm going outside.

Eich
06-04-2012, 12:40 PM
I've read 4 different threads and the final two pages of each look exactly the same. I'm going outside.

That's how it is with a board that's been Crash'd ! The same agenda will be defended with the same set of never-ending and sometimes even conflicting stories.

DukieBoy
06-04-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I think some of you are concerned this offense is going to do a 180 and go back to the days of "3 yards and a cloud of dust" Steeler football. That isn't what you will see. "Dedication to the run game" doesn't mean calling 3 run plays and punting during a game. Dedication to the run game starts in practice and the playbook. Being more efficient when you do it and where you do it. Between the 20's, Redzone, Goaline, and 3rd down. All different characteristics. That is where the dedication was lacking under BA. BA obviously put alot of confidence in his WRs atheltic abilities would back off DCs. That was evident in his play calling. He put alot of hope in that fact and it would filter into the running game to make it more productive. However, BA came up against better football minds and guys who could run with his WRs & that is where he struggled. You have to be able to run when you need to run. You have to be able to show the ability to make a defense adjust to your run game if they try and compensate to the pass. Between the 20s...It has to be a concern for a DC with this WR group. That is where the explosiveness of this offense hinges on. If they have to commit that extra body in the box because of it...This offense excels. Like I said, that is all done in the meeting rooms, on the practice field, and in the playbook. You just can't hope it happens when you dial it up in game. Don't think of it as a new identity...Think of it as a change in identity. Meaning, the things we couldn't do well will be improved.

The simple goal in football is imposing you will. Making a team play on their heals. Todays NFL has shown you can do it through the air & on the ground. If you do it through the air...You have to be able to exploit that on the ground when needed. One thing that doesn't change is redzone offense. Between the 20s is down & distance football. Redzone is a whole different animal. Deficiencies comes out in the Redzone. That is where a team that can impose their will scores more points. A more atheltically talented offense levels out to the defense when the field is shortened. That is the Steelers O at the WR positions. The make-up of the O is simple to see for all. The Steelers don't have the physical presence at WR to exploit "IF" the Steelers redzone running offense threatened the D. They go hand in hand. You need the D to walk up the S and go single S high keying run to pass and get the 1 on 1 outside. You won't get the same respect for Wallace & Brown in the redzone as you do between the 20s. So that is a check "NO" for the Steelers. The same can be said about the TE off of PA. Redzone running offense threatening the D is essential to utilize the Steeler TEs off of PA in the redzone. The Steelers have "old school" TEs. Nothing wrong with that. They just don't have atheltic mismatch TEs like the Pats & others to utilize in the redzone. So their personnel group at TE is best utilized out of PA. We all know what makes the PA most effective and that is the running game. That doesn't change in the redzone but redzone rushing is even more difficult to make productive for reasons listed above. It takes dedication to get there and let's be honest...Talent on the OL helps. The Steelers "Should" have no excuse now in that department. Simply put...The Steelers have to get better at running the ball when the defense knows it is coming in the redzone. Imposing their will. It is the catalyst of the Steelers redzone offense and essential to the Steelers offense scoring TDs rather than kicking FGs.

​TRUTH. Well informed. Impressive, Nasty. Thanks.

steelnavy
06-04-2012, 12:58 PM
That's how it is with a board that's been Crash'd ! The same agenda will be defended with the same set of never-ending and sometimes even conflicting stories.

Because Crash = Troll

Crash
06-04-2012, 02:56 PM
And against Green Bay?

And the first time we played Rodgers in 2009? What happened?

This scheme sucks against top QBs. The way they BEAT those good teams is the offense holding the ball.

Keep making excuses for them. Then when they suck in the 4th quarter all year while we play Carson Palmer football I'll wait for the next excuse.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-04-2012, 05:19 PM
I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I think some of you are concerned this offense is going to do a 180 and go back to the days of "3 yards and a cloud of dust" Steeler football. That isn't what you will see. "Dedication to the run game" doesn't mean calling 3 run plays and punting during a game. Dedication to the run game starts in practice and the playbook. Being more efficient when you do it and where you do it. Between the 20's, Redzone, Goaline, and 3rd down. All different characteristics. That is where the dedication was lacking under BA. BA obviously put alot of confidence in his WRs atheltic abilities would back off DCs. That was evident in his play calling. He put alot of hope in that fact and it would filter into the running game to make it more productive. However, BA came up against better football minds and guys who could run with his WRs & that is where he struggled. You have to be able to run when you need to run. You have to be able to show the ability to make a defense adjust to your run game if they try and compensate to the pass. Between the 20s...It has to be a concern for a DC with this WR group. That is where the explosiveness of this offense hinges on. If they have to commit that extra body in the box because of it...This offense excels. Like I said, that is all done in the meeting rooms, on the practice field, and in the playbook. You just can't hope it happens when you dial it up in game. Don't think of it as a new identity...Think of it as a change in identity. Meaning, the things we couldn't do well will be improved.

The simple goal in football is imposing youR will. Making a team play on their heels. Todays NFL has shown you can do it through the air & on the ground. If you do it through the air...You have to be able to exploit that on the ground when needed. One thing that doesn't change is redzone offense. Between the 20s is down & distance football. Redzone is a whole different animal. Deficiencies comes out in the Redzone. That is where a team that can impose their will scores more points. A more atheltically talented offense levels out to the defense when the field is shortened. That is the Steelers O at the WR positions. The make-up of the O is simple to see for all. The Steelers don't have the physical presence at WR to exploit "IF" the Steelers redzone running offense threatened the D. They go hand in hand. You need the D to walk up the S and go single S high keying run to pass and get the 1 on 1 outside. You won't get the same respect for Wallace & Brown in the redzone as you do between the 20s. So that is a check "NO" for the Steelers. The same can be said about the TE off of PA. Redzone running offense threatening the D is essential to utilize the Steeler TEs off of PA in the redzone. The Steelers have "old school" TEs. Nothing wrong with that. They just don't have atheltic mismatch TEs like the Pats & others to utilize in the redzone. So their personnel group at TE is best utilized out of PA. We all know what makes the PA most effective and that is the running game. That doesn't change in the redzone but redzone rushing is even more difficult to make productive for reasons listed above. It takes dedication to get there and let's be honest...Talent on the OL helps. The Steelers "Should" have no excuse now in that department. Simply put...The Steelers have to get better at running the ball when the defense knows it is coming in the redzone. Imposing their will. It is the catalyst of the Steelers redzone offense and essential to the Steelers offense scoring TDs rather than kicking FGs.


Wow...well thought and well written.

Crash
06-04-2012, 05:35 PM
By the way, in 2001? The Steelers gave you the #1 rushing team in football.

Guess what? That red zone offense sucked too. That OL was dominant.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 09:59 AM
And the first time we played Rodgers in 2009? What happened?

This scheme sucks against top QBs. The way they BEAT those good teams is the offense holding the ball.


Or, if the offense does not turn over the ball...

By how much did the Packers win in the SB?

I haven't made a single excuse for the defense...not a one...

Crash
06-05-2012, 11:37 AM
Or, if the offense does not turn over the ball...

By how much did the Packers win in the SB?

I haven't made a single excuse for the defense...not a one...

Sure you did. You are one of those people who lets the defense off the hook if our offense turns the ball over. You don't see the fact that the weaknesses this defense has occurs whither the offense turns the ball over or not.

1. Opening drives of games.

2. Drives after the Steelers score themselves.

3. 4th quarter.

It'll happen all year. Sit back and watch.

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 11:45 AM
By the way, in 2001? The Steelers gave you the #1 rushing team in football.

Guess what? That red zone offense sucked too. That OL was dominant.

And AMAZINGLY THAT TEAM scored more points than we did last year. Featuring the QB that you hate like no other who is not close to being as good as Ben is. We have an elite QB, who threw for over 4000 yards, we called plays weighted to the pass. We have the most explosive set of receivers in team history. We scored less than THAT team did.

Given a feared run game and a balanced attack our team has scored much more with Ben as QB.

Heck this team scored more points with Ben throwing to slow Hines and limited ARE as our receivers when we had a powerful run game than ANY of Bens 4000 yard passing season.

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 11:57 AM
Sure you did. You are one of those people who lets the defense off the hook if our offense turns the ball over.

Just pretend Ben is Kordell when he throws a pick. You will understand then. :)

Eich
06-05-2012, 12:19 PM
Sure you did. You are one of those people who lets the defense off the hook if our offense turns the ball over. You don't see the fact that the weaknesses this defense has occurs whither the offense turns the ball over or not.

1. Opening drives of games.

2. Drives after the Steelers score themselves.

3. 4th quarter.

It'll happen all year. Sit back and watch.


You just basically listed the ENTIRE game. How is our defense ever #1 in points allowed when they get scored on the ENTIRE GAME?????

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 12:19 PM
Joe Flacco and Tim Tebow.

Class dismissed.

That is what happens when a defense fears your run game. A scrub QB can surprise you on occasion.

When you have an ELITE QB with a scary run game?
That is unstoppable (see Aikmen's Cowboys).

Everybody is doing a "me too" with the high octane pass game. Only teams without QB talent tend to run alot.

If we are succesful in reestablishing a feared run game it is scary what Ben will be able to do with these receivers in the play action passing game.

Eich
06-05-2012, 12:19 PM
And AMAZINGLY THAT TEAM scored more points than we did last year. Featuring the QB that you hate like no other who is not close to being as good as Ben is. We have an elite QB, who threw for over 4000 yards, we called plays weighted to the pass. We have the most explosive set of receivers in team history. We scored less than THAT team did.

Given a feared run game and a balanced attack our team has scored much more with Ben as QB.

Heck this team scored more points with Ben throwing to slow Hines and limited ARE as our receivers when we had a powerful run game than ANY of Bens 4000 yard passing season.

:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap:Clap

Crash
06-05-2012, 12:30 PM
And AMAZINGLY THAT TEAM scored more points than we did last year.

They also forced 31 turnovers. Or should I say, TWICE AS MANY turnovers as the 2011 team did.

See?

Crash
06-05-2012, 12:33 PM
You just basically listed the ENTIRE game. How is our defense ever #1 in points allowed when they get scored on the ENTIRE GAME?????

The offense holding the ball.

You can't protect them when they open a game.

You can't protect them when they go back on the field after the offense scores.

You can't protect them, when LeBeau plays prevent in the 4th quarter.

You CAN protect them, by holding the ball, especially when you go 75 yards to score every point when you rank 30th in starting field position.

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Why shouldn't the offense go through your 100 million dollar QB??? You are against utilizing the strength of Steelers offense?

Do we have AP or CJ as a RB and T-jack at QB that we should emphasis more on run plays than pass plays??

To me it defies logic.

What "defies logic" is a comment about the "play action pass" stiring "we arent using our QB" comments.
By definition the play action pass involves your 100 million dollar QB.

Yes, you need to run more than we do now to set it up, but your pass game is more EFFECTIVE as a result.

We dont have to guess. It has been PROVEN.

In 2007 Ben threw for nearly 1000 LESS yards, he had over 100 FEWER attempts had Santonio (better passer than receiver) Holmes as his leading receiver and threw a career high THIRTY TWO (YES 32) touchdowns that season.

That team ran over 500 times for over 2000 yards so people HAD to worry about the run.
That team was a red zone BEAST compared to last year's team.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Sure you did. You are one of those people who lets the defense off the hook if our offense turns the ball over. You don't see the fact that the weaknesses this defense has occurs whither the offense turns the ball over or not.


No, I am not...

If the defense shows those weaknesses whether the offense turns the ball over or not, then the offense turning the ball over and the defense are two separate issues...

It is not making excuses to point out that the Steelers lost the SB vs Green Bay by 6 points while also pointing out that the offense turned the ball over three times, including a pick 6...that is just stating a fact...

Crash
06-05-2012, 12:53 PM
In 2007 Ben threw for nearly 1000 LESS yards, he had over 100 FEWER attempts had Santonio (better passer than receiver) Holmes as his leading receiver and threw a career high THIRTY TWO (YES 32) touchdowns that season.

And yet how did that season end? After a bad 2nd quarter (probably the worst quarter of his career at that point) Ben and the offense were dominant in the 2nd half and scored on 4 straight possessions.

Then needing a first down to clinch the game, rather than use you're Pro Bowl QB with his 32 TD passes that year, they did what they were expected to do because we're the Stillers:

Run run run, punt. And go play defense because they did 30 years ago.

And what happened? David freaking Gerard ended their season because Dick LeBeau's defense, once again in the 4th quarter of a big game, couldn't make one play when they were asked to.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 12:54 PM
In 2007 Ben threw for nearly 1000 LESS yards, he had over 100 FEWER attempts had Santonio (better passer than receiver) Holmes as his leading receiver and threw a career high THIRTY TWO (YES 32) touchdowns that season.


But...but...that's a waste of Ben's talent!!

Crash
06-05-2012, 12:56 PM
But...but...that's a waste of Ben's talent!!

What's ironic is fans were bitching that season they we threw too much.

You guys go ahead and read stat sheets. I'll watch the games.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 01:08 PM
What's ironic is fans were bitching that season they we threw too much.

Sure, they were...


[I'll] read stat sheets. [You guys go ahead and] watch the games.

Will do!

Crash
06-05-2012, 01:10 PM
Really Slap? Making up quotes now?

Sad.

You're just Haley, a joke.

Slapstick
06-05-2012, 01:25 PM
Really Slap? Making up quotes now?

Hey, you make up "facts" all the time!

I was just getting into it...


Sad.


You are. I agree...

Crash
06-05-2012, 01:26 PM
Hey, you make up "facts" all the time!

Where? Do tell.

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 01:44 PM
And yet how did that season end? After a bad 2nd quarter (probably the worst quarter of his career at that point).

Yeah lets just EXPLORE how bad.

Pick 6 TD for Jax
Pick short field TD for Jax

Add to that a kick return stopped at the ONE leading to a score.

That is how Jax scores THIRTY ONE while gaining a measely 239 yards. But the loss is ALL ON THE DEFENSE right?


Then needing a first down to clinch the game, rather than use you're Pro Bowl QB with his 32 TD passes that year, they did what they were expected to do because we're the Stillers:

Run run run, punt. And go play defense because they did 30 years ago.

Wow how easily we miss the fact that the last "run" was a QB scramble. No running back involved.


And what happened? David freaking Gerard ended their season because Dick LeBeau's defense, once again in the 4th quarter of a big game, couldn't make one play when they were asked to.

You mean the David Gerard who went 9 for 21 for 140 yards and 2 picks? That David Gerard?

Yes, he went 0 for 3 and had one FREAK 38 yard run on that drive.

Lets put this game on the D coordinator. YEAH RIGHT!

Truth is THIS GAME MAKES MY CASE. we did not have our starting running back. Parker had 1300 yards that year. With only Najeh in the game this is a prime example of how much harder it is when a defense has no respect for your run game. Ben threw a ton and was picked three times, something he had NOT DONE all season long.

Given our regular lineup we do what we did all year long with Willie in the game and win that game EASY.

Crash
06-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Wow how easily we miss the fact that the last "run" was a QB scramble. No running back involved.

He didn't even TRY to get the first down. It was 3rd and 6 and he was in the freaking shotgun. He basically held the ball to not risk a fumble by Davenport, and to force the Jags to burn their second time out.

It's the same play they ran against Cleveland in Heinz Field earlier the same season (WITH Willie Parker in the lineup I might add so no injury excuse can be used on that one).

3rd and 7 at PIT 14 (2:00) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger up the middle to PIT 14 for no gain (S.Smith).


Truth is THIS GAME MAKES MY CASE. we did not have our starting running back.

And yet, because we're the Stillers. We put the ball into the hands of our #2 back because we ran the ball 30 years earlier and didn't allow our alleged franchise QB the chance to clinch a game.

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2012, 02:11 PM
Here are some facts...

Our offense was outscored by the Packers, Saints, Patriots, Lions, Chargers, Panthers, Falcons, Eagles, Giants, Texans, Niners, Ravens, Jets, Bills, Cowboys, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, and Dolphins (and tied with the Titans).

Meanwhile, no team allowed less points than our defense.

If you think that a lack of interceptions handing our offense great field position is the reason why we aren't even in the top 20 in scoring offense, then you are the one making excuses. Ben Roethlisberger's team scored less than Matt Moore's team, Christian Ponder's team, Andy Dalton's team, Jay Cutler's team, Carson Palmer's team, Tony Romo's team, Ryan Fitzpatrick's team, Mark Sanchez's team, Joe Flacco's team, Alex Smith's team, etc., etc., etc. That is why Arians is gone and Haley is re-making the offense to take fuller advantage of this team's offensive talents.

Crash
06-05-2012, 02:18 PM
So you are telling me that lack of turnovers and 30th in starting field position has no bearing on offensive scoring?

15 turnovers all year. If you think that has no bearing on offensive scoring then I can't help you.

Todd Haley is a friggin' nobody. If his Dad wasn't Dick Haley he'd be at some country club giving golf lessons.

Haley's such a prize that Charlie Weiss left rather than keep working for him and Whiz's assistants told him please don't rehire him.

Captain Lemming
06-05-2012, 02:42 PM
And yet, because we're the Stillers. We put the ball into the hands of our #2 back because we ran the ball 30 years earlier and didn't allow our alleged franchise QB the chance to clinch a game.

Najeh 16 carries.
Is that your idea of 70s football?
Ben passed 42 times.

Now some of that is because we were behind but really Crash?
42 passes not enough for your version of "balance?" :confused:

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2012, 03:32 PM
So you are telling me that lack of turnovers and 30th in starting field position has no bearing on offensive scoring?

15 turnovers all year. If you think that has no bearing on offensive scoring then I can't help you.

I did not say it had zero bearing whatsoever...but even if our defense had twice as many interceptions last season, that wouldn't magically launch our offense from being outside the top 20 into the elite level top 5 offenses in the league.

Face the facts...our offense was BELOW AVERAGE last season in the one stat that counts...scoring.

Perhaps, if the defense had more takeaways and therefore gave the offense better field position, then we might have been AVERAGE in that respect...whoop-di-doo.

That is not nearly good enough. With the weapons we have on offense, we should certainly be ABOVE AVERAGE, and perhaps even approaching ELITE.

But we weren't anywhere close to that. Therefore, the offensive system that our quarterback loved so much, but woefully underachieved in, was scrapped for something that should hopefully be much more efficient. The goal for our offense this season will be to PUT MORE POINTS ON THE SCOREBOARD.

As Tomlin often says, style points don't matter...as long we have at least one more point on the board than the opponent when the clock strikes 0:00, then I don't care if we ran the ball 60 times, threw the ball 60 times, had 5 interceptions, had 0 interceptions, had 7 sacks, had 0 sacks, etc.

phillyesq
06-05-2012, 03:59 PM
Here are some facts...

Our offense was outscored by the Packers, Saints, Patriots, Lions, Chargers, Panthers, Falcons, Eagles, Giants, Texans, Niners, Ravens, Jets, Bills, Cowboys, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, and Dolphins (and tied with the Titans).

Meanwhile, no team allowed less points than our defense.

If you think that a lack of interceptions handing our offense great field position is the reason why we aren't even in the top 20 in scoring offense, then you are the one making excuses. Ben Roethlisberger's team scored less than Matt Moore's team, Christian Ponder's team, Andy Dalton's team, Jay Cutler's team, Carson Palmer's team, Tony Romo's team, Ryan Fitzpatrick's team, Mark Sanchez's team, Joe Flacco's team, Alex Smith's team, etc., etc., etc. That is why Arians is gone and Haley is re-making the offense to take fuller advantage of this team's offensive talents.

Taking this one step further, the Steelers had 15 takeaways. The number 2 scoring offense, the Saints, had 16 takeaways.

Bottom line is the offense failed to get it done.

hawaiiansteel
06-05-2012, 04:02 PM
Taking this one step further, the Steelers had 15 takeaways. The number 2 scoring offense, the Saints, had 16 takeaways.

Bottom line is the offense failed to get it done.


great point $$$$ :Clap
if I ever get into trouble I'm hiring you as my attorney :Cheers

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2012, 04:04 PM
great point $$$$ :Clap
if I ever get into trouble I'm hiring you as my attorney :Cheers

I'm hiring Art Rooney II. He's a better private practice attorney than an NFL owner. :stirpot

Crash
06-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Najeh 16 carries.
Is that your idea of 70s football?
Ben passed 42 times.

Now some of that is because we were behind but really Crash?
42 passes not enough for your version of "balance?" :confused:

JFC are you that dumb? I was talking about the last series.


Ben passed 42 times.

And they were down 21-7 and 28-10.

What should they do? Run the ball, go home, and quit?

Like I said, you read stat sheets, I'll watch the games.

hawaiiansteel
06-05-2012, 04:38 PM
I'm hiring Art Rooney II. He's a better private practice attorney than an NFL owner. :stirpot


yeah, but I hear Art II is nothing but a two bit lawyer...

Crash
06-05-2012, 04:40 PM
Taking this one step further, the Steelers had 15 takeaways. The number 2 scoring offense, the Saints, had 16 takeaways

The Saints aren't told to commit to the running game. The Saints play in a dome and Drew Brees thew the ball 623 times after 15 games compared to Ben's 513.

You use the QB, you score points.

You insist on running the ball behind a crap OL? You struggle.

Oviedo
06-05-2012, 05:17 PM
Why oh why is this thread still alive:HeadBanger

RuthlessBurgher
06-05-2012, 06:02 PM
yeah, but I hear Art II is nothing but a two bit lawyer...

After my shave and a hair cut, two bits is all I can afford. :p

Slapstick
06-06-2012, 08:21 AM
The Saints aren't told to commit to the running game. The Saints play in a dome and Drew Brees thew the ball 623 times after 15 games compared to Ben's 513.

You use the QB, you score points.

You insist on running the ball behind a crap OL? You struggle.

And the year NO won the SB? 4th ranked passing offense and 6th ranked rushing offense...

Isn't that what you would call balance?

Oviedo
06-06-2012, 08:27 AM
Is there a record on the "Planet" for how many pages a thread can go without saying anything new after the second page?

Slapstick
06-06-2012, 08:47 AM
Is there a record on the "Planet" for how many pages a thread can go without saying anything new after the second page?

I accept much of the blame...

I know I shouldn't indulge him, but I derive enjoyment from pointing out the logical fallacies in the argument (I would say various arguments, but, in truth, there is only one argument) and watching those points get steam rolled by rampant irrationality...

I will endeavor not to feed the proverbial beast as much in the future...

Oviedo
06-06-2012, 09:34 AM
I accept much of the blame...

I know I shouldn't indulge him, but I derive enjoyment from pointing out the logical fallacies in the argument (I would say various arguments, but, in truth, there is only one argument) and watching those points get steam rolled by rampant irrationality...

I will endeavor not to feed the proverbial beast as much in the future...

Don't feed the animals!!!!!!

feltdizz
06-06-2012, 09:49 AM
Why oh why is this thread still alive:HeadBanger

because Todd Haley didn't say Ben was the only weapon on offense.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
06-06-2012, 11:22 AM
Besides the dedication to the running game issue...A big part of BA outs and Haley hiring is Red zone TD scoring. KC's 2011 was not good and we know what Haley endured there with the injuries. 2010 he had a healthy team and won the West title. Some of the stats below had teams tied but you will get the perception. The "Bold 2006" year was Wiz's last year here and the Steelers were 8-8.


REDZONE SCORING ATTEMPTS PER GAME
2011 STEELERS 15TH
2010 STEELERS 13TH
2009 STEELERS 8TH
2008 STEELERS 14TH
2007 STEELERS 4TH
2006 STEELERS 5th
2011 CHIEFS 29th
2010 CHIEFS 13TH
2008 CARDINALS 3RD
2007 CARDINALS 14th


REDZONE SCORING % (TDS)
2011 STEELERS 17TH
2010 STEELERS 16TH
2009 STEELERS 22TH
2008 STEELERS 14TH
2007 STEELERS 7TH
2006 STEELERS 16TH
2011 CHIEFS 32th
2010 CHIEFS 8TH
2008 CARDINALS 6TH
2007 CARDINALS 3RD


REDZONE TDS PER GAME
2011 STEELERS 14TH
2010 STEELERS 15TH
2009 STEELERS 12TH
2008 STEELERS 15TH
2007 STEELERS 4TH
2006 STEELERS 8TH
2011 CHIEFS 32th
2010 CHIEFS 10TH
2008 CARDINALS 2ND
2007 CARDINALS 4TH


If You could follow the stats....The first is overall times (drives) the team got in the Redzone. The 2nd hinges off that stat and how many times the drive produced TDs. The last is just Redzone TDs per game. With the exception of Haley's 2011 season...I think a good word would be "Efficiency" for Haley run offenses. BA...not so much. The bigger flag is the fact that BA 1st year to last year showed a decline to flat line.

BA offense between the 20's was pretty potent. There are times where BA came up against better football minds & talented secondaries and we saw the struggles. Splash plays came from the explosive WRs outside of the Redzone. But the reality of it is, the majority of the scoring drives come down to the Redzone. In the Redzone, the field is leveled. Like I said before, the Steelers offense in the redzone has to be tilted to the run games efficiency to set up the PA to the TEs & RBs. If it isn't productive between the 20's, It doesn't get any easier in the Redzone. Don't confuse "efficiency" or "productive" with more attempts & yards. The "quality" is the focus. Dedication in practice & in the playbook will transition to game on same attempts. Bigger focus is Teams have to take note in game and that can mean more attempts. They have to show they have no problem pounded until you stop it. But that leads to guessing against the run and plays into your hand with your WRS. If you guess, the Steelers have to show they can run alot of PA out of 21, 22, & 13 personnel. Big plays will come out of this if they challange vertical with Wallace and/or Brown. On the flip side, they have to show they will still run it out of 11 OR 20 when it draws a sub package. Come redzone, now they are on their heels in the box. The field is leveled because it is shortended but the margin of error is impacted on the defense because of it. That is what has to be exploited in the Redzone by the Steelers. If the defense isn't guessing between the 20s, the offenses Redzone efficiency will not be good.

Off subject, The Haley-Rainey wrinkle could play a big part in all of this. When Rainey is on the field, is it 2 personnel or 12? Is it an 11 or 21? DC has to decide what sub or base. The ones I think will really be something special if the OL comes together...is it 0 personnel or 10? Is it 1 personnel or 11? If the Steelers can get to that point it makes it a BB game. It is a run-pass option determined by the DC package he puts on the field and audibled presnap. Like I said though, that won't happen until the Steelers OL can show the can block with 5 or 6 with the TE. BB will also have to commit to the Rainey checkdown if they send a free man. This plays a part in the Redzone too. Even though the vertical speed is leveled in the Redzone the quickness & speed play a part horizontally because defenders don't have the luxury of angles because yards are limited. So with the design & playcall (audible) you get the mismatch you want and the defender doesn't have the "real estate" to make the play.

Crash
06-06-2012, 12:55 PM
And the year NO won the SB? 4th ranked passing offense and 6th ranked rushing offense...

Isn't that what you would call balance?

The Saints don't care about running the ball though. They still throw the ball when they are up big.

We don't. We get a lead, and we have to run the ball because that's what FRAnco did 30 years ago.

I wish we would keep our foot on the gas pedal.

We simply choose not to.

Because the minute it fails and the defense blows a 4th quarter lead everyone starts crying we don't run the ball.

feltdizz
06-06-2012, 02:16 PM
The Saints don't care about running the ball though. They still throw the ball when they are up big.

We don't. We get a lead, and we have to run the ball because that's what FRAnco did 30 years ago.

I wish we would keep our foot on the gas pedal.

We simply choose not to.

Because the minute it fails and the defense blows a 4th quarter lead everyone starts crying we don't run the ball.

They run AND they throw when they are up big but the difference is Brees throwing into tighter windows and on back shoulders to WR's who aren't afraid to go get it. Outside of Brown I haven't seen any of our WR's show any hunger when the ball is in the air.

Oviedo
06-06-2012, 02:18 PM
They run AND they throw when they are up big but the difference is Brees throwing into tighter windows and on back shoulders to WR's who aren't afraid to go get it. Outside of Brown I haven't seen any of our WR's show any hunger when the ball is in the air.

Another reason we shouldn't spend $8M+ on a WR not named Brown.

Crash
06-06-2012, 02:27 PM
They run AND they throw when they are up big but the difference is Brees throwing into tighter windows and on back shoulders to WR's who aren't afraid to go get it. Outside of Brown I haven't seen any of our WR's show any hunger when the ball is in the air.

It's always been this way. Long before the YMC ever played here.

We get a lead, we have to run in the 4th. That's what people want. Case in point, SB XLIII we had the ball up 20-7 from the 48 after a Cards penalty.

Run run sack punt.

Then the Cardinals went right down the field and scored.

So Arians did it the Yinzer Way the first time they had the ball in that 4th quarter, and the defense still folded like a cheap suit the next time they went on the field.

Me? I would have went for the throat and ended the game myself.

But we are too obsessed with re-living the old days.

feltdizz
06-06-2012, 03:05 PM
People don't want to run they want to win and a dominant run game will help us...

Crash
06-06-2012, 03:09 PM
People don't want to run they want to win and a dominant run game will help us...

Well guess what? The other team gets paid too.

The last time the Steelers had a "dominant" running game was 1997. It's not as easy as one thinks to get one.

Shawn
06-06-2012, 03:24 PM
I believe we need to run, run then run some more. When we are done running, we should be thinking about running. When Haley is sleeping at night, he should be dreaming up new running plays.

Sugar
06-06-2012, 03:32 PM
I believe we need to run, run then run some more. When we are done running, we should be thinking about running. When Haley is sleeping at night, he should be dreaming up new running plays.

I also believe we should be running... after catching a pass! ;)

Oviedo
06-06-2012, 03:34 PM
I also believe we should be running... after catching a pass! ;)

Yards after the catch is the name of the game in today's NFL. No more Neanderthal football.

hawaiiansteel
06-06-2012, 09:59 PM
Todd Haley says Steelers learning O

Updated: June 6, 2012
Associated Press

PITTSBURGH -- Throughout the offseason, on and off the field, new Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley has appeared relaxed, at ease and smiling. The same was the case on Wednesday, when he spoke with the media during training activities.

Far from the fiery, not-afraid-to-get-in-a-player's-face persona he has cultivated over 15 years as an assistant or head coach in the NFL, this is a new Haley with a new mission on a new team. But don't worry, he said. The Steelers will see that side of him soon enough.

"I don't flip that switch until a little later," Haley said, drawing laughs. "In training camp, we'll pick it up a notch."

Demeanor aside, Haley was more direct in addressing concerns about the Steelers learning his offense before the start of the season.

"You use all this time," Haley said. "It will be training camp and then it will be the real preseason games before anybody is totally comfortable."

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has repeatedly expressed consternation about the transition to a new system after playing in virtually the same offense under coordinators Ken Whisenhunt and Bruce Arians the first eight years of his career.

Roethlisberger was absent from the optional practice Wednesday, after which Haley spoke publicly for the first time since the draft in April. Haley was asked if he was worried that his two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback has so often expressed concern in assimilating into the new offense.

"I haven't sensed any of that concern, at least me personally," Haley said. "He's in here, he's working hard. He's into it -- even the days when he hasn't practiced, he's over my shoulder, talking, commenting, discussing. That's what I've seen out of all the good quarterbacks -- really good quarterbacks -- that I've been around act like."

While Haley asserted that "this goes on each and every year" around the league, the Steelers are usually a model of consistency. The franchise that has had only three head coaches since 1969 had been running the same offense and defense since Roethlisberger entered the league in 2004.

Arians was the wide receivers coach under Whisenhunt until the latter was hired by the Arizona Cardinals as a head coach. Haley was Whisenhunt's offensive coordinator for two seasons -- including the Cardinals' 2009 NFC title season -- before moving on to Kansas City.

"Change is not always comfortable, and we said that right out of the gate," said Haley, who was fired by the Chiefs in December. "Sometimes when there are changes, that's a way to keep guys on their toes and keep their focus on the understanding of what the goal is -- and that is to win Super Bowls."

While sheepishly conceding he was using "coachspeak," Haley described his offense by saying he wants "a physical group, a smart group, a disciplined group."

Haley has shown an ability to adapt to his personnel. The vertical-passing offense during his time with the Cardinals differed greatly from the run-oriented attack used by the Chiefs during their 2010 AFC West title season. Haley said he's learning about his new players as much as they are learning about him. More than any dramatic changes in structure, semantics are the hurdles that need to be cleared.

"Football is football," Haley said. "Terminology is the issue, really. Philosophically, you spell out to your guys how you want to play football and then it is about them understanding the language.

"We, coaches, are creatures of habit. You can go around the league and hear a lot of the same words. But the problem is when they don't mean the same thing. You try to avoid those situations, where guys are having to translate language-to-language and concept-to-concept."

Haley said the Steelers' offense is where he wants it to be at this stage, with OTAs concluding after a session Thursday. Mandatory minicamp is next week.

"Next week will be a real big week for us because what we are going to do is backtrack and redo exactly what we did again," Haley said. "It will be the third time they are hearing. In Phase I, in the little bit of field work we were able to do, we installed it once then. So this is second time through. And next week will be our third, and training camp will be fourth."

With Roethlisberger turning 30 this offseason, the Steelers are taking steps to keep their $102 million quarterback healthy for the long-term. Pittsburgh drafted offensive linemen in the first two rounds, and team president Art Rooney II suggested Roethlisberger would need to "tweak" his game.

Roethlisberger has thrived due to his propensity to scramble, fend off sacks with his strength and keep plays alive, and the franchise quarterback has been reluctant to alter a style that has made him a star.

While Haley said preventing the quarterback from taking hits is "always an emphasis," he didn't sound as if he was making any directives aimed at forcing Roethlisberger to stay more in the pocket or get rid of the ball earlier.

"It's one of the best things he does, and it's what separates him from all the other guys in the league for the most part," Haley said. "So you don't want to take that great ability away from him."

Haley has yet to work with speedy starting receiver Mike Wallace, a restricted free agent who has not signed his tender nor attended team offseason workouts.

"He'll be behind a little bit, but he has to pick it up," Haley said. "We'll make sure that occurs.

"http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8017700/new-oc-todd-haley-says-pittsburgh-steelers-picking-offense

RuthlessBurgher
06-07-2012, 10:15 AM
Sure sounds like the ol' golf coach is forcing our $100 million dollar QB to become a Carson Palmer clone as he converts this offense to 1975 smashmouth to keep all the Yinzers happy. Yoi! :roll:


Roethlisberger has thrived due to his propensity to scramble, fend off sacks with his strength and keep plays alive, and the franchise quarterback has been reluctant to alter a style that has made him a star.

While Haley said preventing the quarterback from taking hits is "always an emphasis," he didn't sound as if he was making any directives aimed at forcing Roethlisberger to stay more in the pocket or get rid of the ball earlier.

"It's one of the best things he does, and it's what separates him from all the other guys in the league for the most part," Haley said. "So you don't want to take that great ability away from him."

Oviedo
06-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Sure sounds like the ol' golf coach is forcing our $100 million dollar QB to become a Carson Palmer clone as he converts this offense to 1975 smashmouth to keep all the Yinzers happy. Yoi! :roll:


I think Haley has a clear idea to keep Ben healthy which is the most importnat thing on this team and will dictate our success or failure. Sometimes a player has to be protected from himself for the good of the team.

Crash
06-07-2012, 10:55 AM
I think Haley has a clear idea to keep Ben healthy which is the most importnat thing on this team and will dictate our success or failure. Sometimes a player has to be protected from himself for the good of the team.

So you draft linemen.

Didn't Haley also SAY that there would be A LOT of carryover from the old system to his?

A 90% change, doesn't support that theory.

So much for what he says huh?