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hawaiiansteel
05-23-2012, 02:30 AM
Kovacevic: Get over it, Ben

By Dejan Kovacevic - Tribune-Review
Wednesday, May 23, 2012

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=aZEiC ekkPtxuZ0mkLq4OG8$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYv_x5BT2pq6ehX FFrZrVAzqWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Ben Roethlisberger's disposition seemed as sunny as the skies over the Steelers' South Side fields Tuesday morning. It was the opening of organized team activities, and he looked as loose and lively in drills - "I've lost a few pounds," he explained - as he did in animatedly engaging his teammates.

Big Ben, bundle of joy.

Right up until someone brought up the playbook.

And even then, through media questioning of how the franchise quarterback is handling new offensive coordinator Todd Haley's wholly new playbook, Roethlisberger at least went with a grin-and-bear-it approach.

I asked if he and Haley are on the same page yet.

"Well, that's the goal," Roethlisberger replied with a broad smile. "I'm going to put in extra work to learn his offense and try to get there."

Does he like what he's seen of the plays so far?

"Yeah, sure," he came back, this time with a slight shrug. "It's kind of early to see too much."

How about this OTA opener?

"It was frustrating. It gets frustrating at times. But we'll keep learning."

Roethlisberger's still smiling all this time, by the way.

Will it be hard to stay in the pocket, as Mike Tomlin and the coaches are urging him?

"Sure, yeah, I mean, whatever. I'm supposed to get rid of the ball, stay in the pocket, not take hits ... so, I guess I better learn where the protections are coming from so I don't get hit."

More laughter.

There was a lot more of this, too. And with each passing answer, it became that much more transparent that Roethlisberger has a long way to go to accept how the Steelers treated him this offseason.

I don't blame him.

First, team president Art Rooney publicly stated that Roethlisberger needed to "tweak" his game, meaning to scramble a lot less and stay healthy.

Think Robert Kraft suggests positional philosophy to Tom Brady?

Next, Rooney and Tomlin fired Bruce Arians, Roethlisberger's offensive coordinator of five years, and stunned pretty much everyone. Including Roethlisberger.

Think the Packers pull that with Aaron Rodgers?

Finally, Tomlin hired Haley, also without Roethlisberger's input, and is implementing a brand new offense.

Think Peyton Manning didn't pack his own playbook when he flew off to Denver?

In modern professional sports, the franchise players do have some say. We don't have to like it. The Steelers don't have to like it. But it's the way things work now, with all the money and leverage elite athletes have.

Roethlisberger, a two-time Super Bowl champion, has achieved far too much in Pittsburgh to have been toyed with this way. He has every right to feel disillusioned by how this winter played out.

But he also needs to get over it. Like today.

A week ago, Roethlisberger was asked in a radio interview if the new offense might offer a chance to refresh or refocus. Roethlisberger's response: "Uhhhh ... I think Coach really wants to challenge us. Me, maybe, in particular. I think he felt like I was real comfortable with the old offense, which ... I don't know why that's a bad thing. But I'm not the head coach."

No, Roethlisberger is not. Moreover, he's not about to undo any of this, either with comments like that or even by quietly taking the field with a chip on the shoulder. Tomlin isn't about to cede control to his players. Arians isn't coming back. Haley isn't rewriting his playbook.

Time to cope.

Besides, by all accounts, including that of Roethlisberger himself yesterday, the hardest part of adjusting to Haley's playbook hasn't been the offense. It's been language.

"I don't think it's going to look all that different once we're doing it," Roethlisberger said. "It's just a matter of getting used to the terminology."

Again, time to cope.

Roethlisberger's teammates sound confident he'll do exactly that.

"From a quarterback's perspective, it's tough changing offenses," wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery said. "I saw Brett Favre go through it when he got to the Jets. He'd been doing one thing his entire career, and what we were doing, the terminology, it was like a foreign language to him."

That was with Favre arriving late in training camp of 2008.

"It's always easier for a coordinator to just come in and implement their own stuff," Cotchery continued. "I understand it. We all understand it. We just have to embrace the change."

In closing my interview with Roethlisberger, I couldn't help but ask if he'd lost weight primarily to show the Steelers he can still scramble.

"Nope," he replied. "Just trying to stay healthy. I'm getting old."

More laughter.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1836198-85/roethlisberger-think-haley-offense-playbook-steelers-stay-tomlin-ben-coordinator

Jooser
05-23-2012, 06:54 AM
I guess I'm the odd man out here, but the firing on Bruce Arians DID NOT surprise me a bit. That old horse and pony show stunk and it was a welcome sight to see the train roll out of town......

This writer seems to be stirring the sh!t pot here, BOO-HOO if Ben has to learn a new playbook. If our offense could've gotten into the end zone more often, he wouldn't be in this boat. I watched Super Bowl 43 on NFL Network on Sunday morning. We had 7 plays inside the 10 yrd line to try and score during one second-half drive and actually LOST yardage. That was the gripe with the old offense, they were ALL-World between the 20's, but couldn't score points. Guess what folks, points win games, not yards. Change was needed, and I don't feel that Big Ben was slighted by Rooney or Tomlin, they gave BA and BB more than ample time to develop into an explosive scoring machine....they failed. Time to move on. The reference to Peyton Manning is moot, IMO, because the old offense was never a high-scoring affair like PM's was.

steelblood
05-23-2012, 07:37 AM
I guess I'm the odd man out here, but the firing on Bruce Arians DID NOT surprise me a bit. That old horse and pony show stunk and it was a welcome sight to see the train roll out of town......

This writer seems to be stirring the sh!t pot here, BOO-HOO if Ben has to learn a new playbook. If our offense could've gotten into the end zone more often, he wouldn't be in this boat. I watched Super Bowl 43 on NFL Network on Sunday morning. We had 7 plays inside the 10 yrd line to try and score during one second-half drive and actually LOST yardage. That was the gripe with the old offense, they were ALL-World between the 20's, but couldn't score points. Guess what folks, points win games, not yards. Change was needed, and I don't feel that Big Ben was slighted by Rooney or Tomlin, they gave BA and BB more than ample time to develop into an explosive scoring machine....they failed. Time to move on. The reference to Peyton Manning is moot, IMO, because the old offense was never a high-scoring affair like PM's was.

The writer "Stirring the ... pot"? I don't think so. I think his point is that Ben is doing the pot stirring right now. And, he believes that Ben needs to stop.

Jooser
05-23-2012, 08:05 AM
The writer states agreement that Ben has been treated unfairly, that's my point. I don't agree with the writer's assessment of the situation, but I do agree that Ben needs to quit smarting off about it and move on.

squidkid
05-23-2012, 08:13 AM
Ben has a ways to go to become a team leader and he isnt very smart.
STFU, learn something, stay healthy and produce.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 08:35 AM
Think Robert Kraft suggests positional philosophy to Tom Brady?

Think the Packers pull that with Aaron Rodgers?

Think Peyton Manning didn't pack his own playbook when he flew off to Denver?



Did any of those guys find themselves in the news with two separate sexual assault allegations within a period of 12 months?

No?

Why would the coaches, front office and ownership not trust Ben to make these decisions himself?:confused:

feltdizz
05-23-2012, 08:53 AM
No one was surprised BA was canned... I think the timing of it threw people off because of Tomlin's presser.

The things that make Ben great are also the things that get him in trouble... he is stubborn, has a big ego and likes doing things his way. It's great when it works but it can be a disaster when it doesn't and I'm talking about on and off the field.

Sugar
05-23-2012, 08:57 AM
I watched Ben's interview on Steelers.com and Ben was nothing but positive. He wasn't disparaging in any way, but he made it clear that there was work to do and he was there to work. So, what's the problem?

IMO, all this stuff has been manufactured drama by the press. Ben isn't whining or complaining. He's being a good soldier and doing what he has to do. I'm sure it's not easy when you think that if you hadn't missed on a few opportunities to score your friend might not have gotten fired. Still, no griping on his end, just being professional.

Eich
05-23-2012, 08:58 AM
Did any of those guys find themselves in the news with two separate sexual assault allegations within a period of 12 months?

No?

Why would the coaches, front office and ownership not trust Ben to make these decisions himself?:confused:

But more than that, did Brady and Rogers barely make it through the past season in one piece because of their playing style? Ben was severely damaged goods by the playoffs last year. I hardly find it unfair that Rooney asked him to tweak his game after seeing what Ben endured last year. And it's nice to see the team put an emphasis on the Offensive Line in the draft because no one outside of Ben has had any praise for our line in the past 5 years.

A little tweak to Ben's game and a new Offensive Line and Ben might actually reach the playoffs on both legs.

Jooser
05-23-2012, 09:10 AM
But more than that, did Brady and Rogers barely make it through the past season in one piece because of their playing style? Ben was severely damaged goods by the playoffs last year. I hardly find it unfair that Rooney asked him to tweak his game after seeing what Ben endured last year. And it's nice to see the team put an emphasis on the Offensive Line in the draft because no one outside of Ben has had any praise for our line in the past 5 years.

A little tweak to Ben's game and a new Offensive Line and Ben might actually reach the playoffs on both legs.

Bingo! They stated their position and then went out in the draft and backed it up. Ben doesn't manage this team or call the shots in coaching personnel, he only manages the offense when it's on the field. No one hung him out to dry by firing BA.

Shawn
05-23-2012, 09:33 AM
He mentions Brady and Rodgers as elite QBs. Then mentions that those organizations would never mess with those QBs how the Steelers messed with Ben. We need to stop right there. It was hard for me to get past that. First, the Pats and Packers O's are elite. The Steelers O isn't close to elite. They have elite talent, but don't produce elite results. Hence the firing of Arians. Yes, Ben needs to get over it. To have the kind of talent the Steelers have on O, and lack production is insane. Everyone on the planet should have seen this firing coming.

steelblood
05-23-2012, 11:06 AM
I watched Ben's interview on Steelers.com and Ben was nothing but positive. He wasn't disparaging in any way, but he made it clear that there was work to do and he was there to work. So, what's the problem?

IMO, all this stuff has been manufactured drama by the press. Ben isn't whining or complaining. He's being a good soldier and doing what he has to do. I'm sure it's not easy when you think that if you hadn't missed on a few opportunities to score your friend might not have gotten fired. Still, no griping on his end, just being professional.

I would agree he was positive for the most part, but he was very careful with his words when he spoke of the offense and used faint praise at best. That is a tactical move. This particular interview is not a good example of Ben complaining. Other recent interviews have been worse. He isn't throwing anyone under the bus, but he is raising questions and concerns and flaming on about Arians. He needs to address these issues behind closed doors and not in the media. A good leader generally does that.

While the press does blow up many stories regarding Ben to ridiculous proportions, it is Ben who often puts himself in an awkward position. Ben could have kept his mouth shut or walked away from several situations/issues. His judgement is a little iffy (as it is for many pro athletes).

Crash
05-23-2012, 11:09 AM
Did any of those guys find themselves in the news with two separate sexual assault allegations within a period of 12 months?

No?

Why would the coaches, front office and ownership not trust Ben to make these decisions himself?:confused:

So baseless accusations are going to be held over his head to the point that a freaking lawyer who has never played a down of NFL football can tell a HOF QB how to play football?

If that's the case? Cut him.

Sugar
05-23-2012, 11:18 AM
I would agree he was positive for the most part, but he was very careful with his words when he spoke of the offense and used faint praise at best. That is a tactical move. This particular interview is not a good example of Ben complaining. Other recent interviews have been worse. He isn't throwing anyone under the bus, but he is raising questions and concerns and flaming on about Arians. He needs to address these issues behind closed doors and not in the media. A good leader generally does that.

While the press does blow up many stories regarding Ben to ridiculous proportions, it is Ben who often puts himself in an awkward position. Ben could have kept his mouth shut or walked away from several situations/issues. His judgement is a little iffy (as it is for many pro athletes).

I guess I didn't see any flaming on about anything here. He was judicious in his words, as he should be. People criticize him consistently for not using good judgement, but I thought this interview showed exceptional judgement. He didn't indicate that there was a problem that needed to be discussed with anyone, let alone behind closed doors.

At the end of the day, Ben never has to buy in and no one should expect him to. He just has to do what he's told and support the team. Since it's too early for him to have bought in to the new way, he's doing what he can to be supportive. I don't know what more could be asked of him.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 11:26 AM
So baseless accusations are going to be held over his head to the point that a freaking lawyer who has never played a down of NFL football can tell a HOF QB how to play football?

If that's the case? Cut him.

Baseless? While I don't think Ben is guilty of forcing himself on a woman, to portray the accusations as "baseless" is beyond homerish...

As previously stated, Ben's judgment is iffy...

Instead of cutting him and killing your salary cap, make the employee do his job the way the boss wants...if he's being paid a lot of money, that isn't too much to ask...

Sugar
05-23-2012, 11:33 AM
Baseless? While I don't think Ben is guilty of forcing himself on a woman, to portray the accusations as "baseless" is beyond homerish...

As previously stated, Ben's judgment is iffy...

Instead of cutting him and killing your salary cap, make the employee do his job the way the boss wants...if he's being paid a lot of money, that isn't too much to ask...

The employee is doing his job, so their shouldn't be a problem? Art's comments were made since the last time Ben played a down of football. So far, Ben is at OTA's and doing what he has to learn the new O.

Crash
05-23-2012, 11:34 AM
Baseless?

Baseless. McNulty's own words prove Ben's innocence. And DA Bright telling the entire country that he didn't even have enough evidence to warrant probable cause for an arrest (funny how that statement hardly got any ink) pretty much backs that up.


Instead of cutting him and killing your salary cap, make the employee do his job the way the boss wants...if he's being paid a lot of money, that isn't too much to ask...

Playing 1975 football while paying Ben $15 mil a year is ridiculous. You don't hire Picasso to paint a garage. You don't put Willie Shoemaker on a mule in the Kentucky Derby, and you don't turn Ben Roethlisberger into Carson Palmer. You either accept Ben for the HOF talent that he is, and you use that talent to win games, or you sign a $2 mil a year QB to hand off all year and send Ben on his way.

Only in freaking Pittsburgh can a defense give up a 90 yard drive to Flacco, and 316 yards to Tim Tebow, and the offense is the one who gets the brunt of the blame.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 12:27 PM
[/COLOR]Baseless. McNulty's own words prove Ben's innocence. And DA Bright telling the entire country that he didn't even have enough evidence to warrant probable cause for an arrest (funny how that statement hardly got any ink) pretty much backs that up.

That isn't "baseless"...Baseless would be, "Ben was never alone in his hotel room with McNulty," or "Ben was never in the bathroom alone with an underage drunk girl."


[/COLOR]Playing 1975 football while paying Ben $15 mil a year is ridiculous. You don't hire Picasso to paint a garage. You don't put Willie Shoemaker on a mule in the Kentucky Derby, and you don't turn Ben Roethlisberger into Carson Palmer. You either accept Ben for the HOF talent that he is, and you use that talent to win games, or you sign a $2 mil a year QB to hand off all year and send Ben on his way.

It's Rooney's money and Ben signed the contract...if he wants Ben to hand off the ball, then so be it...he doesn't, I'm sure, because despite your reactionary thinking, I believe that AR II wants the Steelers to win championships...


Only in freaking Pittsburgh can a defense give up a 90 yard drive to Flacco, and 316 yards to Tim Tebow, and the offense is the one who gets the brunt of the blame.

The offense wasn't blamed for those two losses...they were blamed for not scoring (21st in the NFL!! With a $15 million QB!! And Pro Bowl WRs!!!)...

Crash
05-23-2012, 12:35 PM
That isn't "baseless"...Baseless would be, "Ben was never alone in his hotel room with McNulty," or "Ben was never in the bathroom alone with an underage drunk girl."

Um, Miss DTF wasn't under-aged. She was 20. You are under-age at 17 in this country.

See what I mean about facts Slap? You can't even get the basics right.


The offense wasn't blamed for those two losses..

Sure they were. The offense scored 23 points on the road in the playoffs, and Dick LeBeau got a free pass and Bruce Arians was fired.

And when LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks in 2012? Arians won't be here to take the bullets for LeBeau anymore.


It's Rooney's money and Ben signed the contract...if he wants Ben to hand off the ball, then so be it

Then Art is a fool. You pay a QB $15 million to hand off all year? That's bad business.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 12:58 PM
Um, Miss DTF wasn't under-aged. She was 20. You are under-age at 17 in this country.

See what I mean about facts Slap? You can't even get the basics right.


"Miss DTF" was only 20, yet was intoxicated and in a 21+ bar...

You have to be 21 to drink in this country...I'm not sure if you knew that...

If you are not 21 and drinking alcohol, you are drinking while underage...

feltdizz
05-23-2012, 01:03 PM
It only took 2 pages to spin this into Ben's allegations... wow.

Sugar
05-23-2012, 01:10 PM
It only took 2 pages to spin this into Ben's allegations... wow.

Well, the initial premise of the article was pretty much schmutz anyway. I feel sorry for the writers family- "you say you love me, but I don't really feel like you meant it."

Crash
05-23-2012, 01:12 PM
If you are not 21 and drinking alcohol, you are drinking while underage...

No, she's an under-aged DRINKER.

Not an under-aged female.

When someone reports that Ben was allegedly in a bathroom with an under-aged female? I'm not thinking drinking age.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 01:14 PM
No, she's an under-aged DRINKER.

Not an under-aged female.

When someone reports that Ben was allegedly in a bathroom with an under-aged female? I'm not thinking drinking age. [/COLOR]

Fair enough.

Eich
05-23-2012, 02:02 PM
[Then Art is a fool. You pay a QB $15 million to hand off all year? That's bad business.

Not ONE SINGLE year in Ben's career has he hever just "Handed off all year".

Not ONE SINGLE person on planet earth outside of YOU has interpreted Art's "tweak your game" comments to Ben as he's going "to hand off all year".

So, unless that actually happens - and I will be SHOCKED if it does - then you don't even have a point. Ben could tweak his game in ways that he actually passes MORE and ends up injured less.

There is no way in hell that this team, with all these offensive weapons, is going to have Ben "hand off all year" such that any two-bit QB could take his place.

steelblood
05-23-2012, 02:02 PM
I guess I didn't see any flaming on about anything here. He was judicious in his words, as he should be. People criticize him consistently for not using good judgement, but I thought this interview showed exceptional judgement. He didn't indicate that there was a problem that needed to be discussed with anyone, let alone behind closed doors.

At the end of the day, Ben never has to buy in and no one should expect him to. He just has to do what he's told and support the team. Since it's too early for him to have bought in to the new way, he's doing what he can to be supportive. I don't know what more could be asked of him.

As the quarterback, I believe Ben has to buy in to Haley. If Ben openly questions Haley or doesn't show support, that is could undermine his coach and cause others to question him. That sort of thing causes problems on many levels. I get what you are saying. Ben does not need to blow smoke up Haley's rear. I totally agree. And, I don't think he has far to go in embracing Haley's offense.

Eich
05-23-2012, 02:06 PM
No, she's an under-aged DRINKER.

Not an under-aged female.

When someone reports that Ben was allegedly in a bathroom with an under-aged female? I'm not thinking drinking age. [/COLOR]

And yet, when someone reports that Ben was in a bathroom with ANY drunk female wearing a DTF shirt (which he did not dispute), in a college campus bar, himself wearing a devil on his shirt, AFTER being accused of sexual assault just months prior..... I'm thinking (at a minimum) EPICALLY stupid and badly in need of a lesson.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 02:16 PM
It only took 2 pages to spin this into Ben's allegations... wow.

Blame the author for comparing him to other franchise QBs...

Crash
05-23-2012, 02:20 PM
And yet, when someone reports that Ben was in a bathroom with ANY drunk female wearing a DTF shirt (which he did not dispute), in a college campus bar, himself wearing a devil on his shirt, AFTER being accused of sexual assault just months prior..... I'm thinking (at a minimum) EPICALLY stupid and badly in need of a lesson.

Um, it wasn't a campus bar.

Goodell had no right to suspend Ben. Anyone with a brain in their head knows why he did it.

The Rooney's? I believe he and Ben's people agreed on a game, that's fine, Holmes got that also.

But all Goodell did was make it worse.

This team has become Goodell's punching bag. I wish the Rooney's would grow a set and rip Goodell for it in public.

Crash
05-23-2012, 02:26 PM
Blame the author for comparing him to other franchise QBs...

Yeah Brady's a stand up guy. Knocks up women and then dumps them and has hired bodyguards shooting at photographers.

Peyton Manning sexually assaulted a female trainer in college, then paid her off after he lied about her in his book.

RuthlessBurgher
05-23-2012, 02:46 PM
This team has become Goodell's punching bag.

There is another team who also wears black and gold down south who might dispute that...

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 02:47 PM
Yeah Brady's a stand up guy. Knocks up women and then dumps them and has hired bodyguards shooting at photographers.

Peyton Manning sexually assaulted a female trainer in college, then paid her off after he lied about her in his book.

Ben has no one to blame but himself...if you want to bring up an incident from Manning's past, in 1996, that is even more dubious than Ben's allegations...well, you have a very strange double standard going on...What Brady did to Bridget Moynahan may be deplorable, it wasn't illegal or actionable...

At any rate, Ben is the one who was in the news and Ben is the one who most recently demonstrated poor judgment...

Crash
05-23-2012, 02:54 PM
Ben has no one to blame but himself...if you want to bring up an incident from Manning's past, in 1996, that is even more dubious than Ben's allegations...well, you have a very strange double standard going on...What Brady did to Bridget Moynahan may be deplorable, it wasn't illegal or actionable...

At any rate, Ben is the one who was in the news and Ben is the one who most recently demonstrated poor judgment...

Missing the point. You brought up Ben's past and your tried to portray Peyton and Brady as something they are not.

And like I said earlier, if Reno and Georgia off the field BS is going to allow Art II to tell Ben how to play his position? Trade him.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 03:04 PM
Missing the point. You brought up Ben's past and your tried to portray Peyton and Brady as something they are not.

And like I said earlier, if Reno and Georgia off the field BS is going to allow Art II to tell Ben how to play his position? Trade him.

You're missing the point...

Whether or not Brady and Manning are paragons of virtue, they are perceived to be responsible franchise QBs while Ben is perceived to be immature and whiny...

Part of the reason is that Brady and Manning did a good job of managing their high media profiles while Ben was fooling around in the bathroom with an underaged drinker or in a hotel room with an apparently psychotic hotel employee...

Reno and Georgia don't allow Art II to tell Ben how to play his position...Art II's ownership of the team and the signature that goes on the checks do...Art II doesn't trust Ben's judgment. At this point, why should he?

If Ben is a true HoF QB, he should be able to adapt to the new system with no problem. True HoF talent can transcend scheme...

Crash
05-23-2012, 03:16 PM
Art II to tell Ben how to play his position...Art II's ownership of the team and the signature that goes on the checks do...Art II doesn't trust Ben's judgment. At this point, why should he?

Oh I don't know, I think this team has won 2 rings with Ben in 8 years after going ringless for 24 STRAIGHT YEARS after Bradshaw retired.

If Art wants 1975 football, he's wasting Ben's talent.

BradshawsHairdresser
05-23-2012, 03:43 PM
[/COLOR]Oh I don't know, I think this team has won 2 rings with Ben in 8 years after going ringless for 24 STRAIGHT YEARS after Bradshaw retired.

If Art wants 1975 football, he's wasting Ben's talent.





Relax. The Steelers aren't going back to 1975. Not with the personnel we have in place.

But who can argue that we just haven't been all that great in situational running the past few years?

Running better = passing better. Running better + passing better = more points. More points = better team.

To me, nothing I've seen leads me to believe Ben will necessarily be passing LESS.

Why don't we wait and see how the new offense actually plays out before we get too carried away with condemning it?

Crash
05-23-2012, 03:51 PM
Relax. The Steelers aren't going back to 1975. Not with the personnel we have in place.

But who can argue that we just haven't been all that great in situational running the past few years?

Running better = passing better. Running better + passing better = more points. More points = better team.

To me, nothing I've seen leads me to believe Ben will necessarily be passing LESS.

Why don't we wait and see how the new offense actually plays out before we get too carried away with condemning it?

And what "tweaks" have been done to the defense? All I see is the same excuses for that unit while at the same time scrapping the offense.

Who's going to be the next scapegoat when LeBeau's prevent costs them another big game?

hawaiiansteel
05-23-2012, 03:53 PM
Relax. The Steelers aren't going back to 1975. Not with the personnel we have in place.

But who can argue that we just haven't been all that great in situational running the past few years?

Running better = passing better. Running better + passing better = more points. More points = better team.

To me, nothing I've seen leads me to believe Ben will necessarily be passing LESS.

Why don't we wait and see how the new offense actually plays out before we get too carried away with condemning it?


great post and I agree completely. an effective running game will also increase the effectiveness of play-action which will in turn lead to a more effective passing game which should lead to scoring more points. being the 21st highest scoring team in the NFL simply is not acceptable and a change had to be made.

Eich
05-23-2012, 04:08 PM
And what "tweaks" have been done to the defense? All I see is the same excuses for that unit while at the same time scrapping the offense.

Who's going to be the next scapegoat when LeBeau's prevent costs them another big game?

In an OFFENSE-ORIENTED league, our offense has underachieved more than the defense has lately.

ALL defenses in the NFL give up late-game, come-from-behind drives, when the opposing offense abandons the run and goes balls-out. If they didn't, guys like Ben, Brady, Rogers, etc.. wouldn't have all the 4th quarter come-backs.

Not saying the defense can't and shouldn't improve. But the offense has been the true underachiever.

RuthlessBurgher
05-23-2012, 04:09 PM
And what "tweaks" have been done to the defense?

A different ILB calling out the defense for the first time in a decade, a new starter at corner, youth across the d-line...

hawaiiansteel
05-23-2012, 04:10 PM
Roethlisberger is doing nothing more than motivating himself

May 23rd, 2012
by Mark Kaboly

Over the past two weeks, and including the opening of organized team activities Tuesday, Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger took the opportunity to let it be known to whoever was within ear-shot that new offensive coordinator Todd Haley’s playbook isn’t an entry-level course.

I believe that words “Rosetta Stone” were used on a couple of occasions on how he views the Haley playbook.

Translation? It’s pretty doggone tough.

Columnist Dejan Kovacevic had a wonderful piece in today’s Trib opining that the quarterback needs to get over complaining about the complexity of Haley’s playbook.

Kovacevic simply said: “Time to cope.”

Like it or not, but this is how Roethlisberger copes.

Maybe we need him to get over the fact that this isn’t Bruce Arians’ playbook anymore, but, in reality, Roethlisberger need to make it feel like an impossible challenge in order to motivate himself.

Is it strange? Absolutely.

Should he change his ways? Absolutely not.

Agree with it or disagree with it, but Roethlisberger engraining it in the psyche of the public that he is faced with impossible odds motivates him to do his best – always has.

He’s done it for years and years with his injuries and/or sicknesses. I am not suggesting that he wasn’t hurting at times, but it’s well-known that he likes to exaggerate those injuries at times as well.

Again, it’s a way for him to protect himself and motivate himself all at once. It works for him, so why not accept it for what it is worth?

This whole playbook thing is a safety net for him just in case he does fail or does struggle early on. It’s just the way the guy motivates himself. He has no malice intentions.

And seriously, do you really think come Sept. 9 (a Sunday night in front of a national audience) in Denver that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be struggling with Todd Haley’s playbook? He’s not going to understand the terminology or a route combination? Come on, let’s give the guy a little credit here.

With OTAs, minicamp, training camp and preseason games, Roethlisberger will have somewhere in between 45-50 opportunities of on-the-job training over the next few months.

I think he might just pick it up by then, don’t you?

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/05/23/roethlisberger-is-doing-nothing-more-than-motivating-himself/#.T7zmDNaBw8Y.twitter

Crash
05-23-2012, 04:26 PM
In an OFFENSE-ORIENTED league, our offense has underachieved more than the defense has lately.

And yet, all the big money on this team goes to the defense and has for years while the offense has always been one constant change.

Can you imagine where this team would be had they not fluked into Antonio Brown?

BradshawsHairdresser
05-23-2012, 04:52 PM
And what "tweaks" have been done to the defense? All I see is the same excuses for that unit while at the same time scrapping the offense.

Who's going to be the next scapegoat when LeBeau's prevent costs them another big game?

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I would like to have seen the team give LeBeau a gold watch and his retirement papers, and hire an innovative replacement for him. I appreciate St. Richard's many contributions over the years, but I agree, he should not escape his share of the blame for late-game collapses. His handling of the Denver playoff game was particularly disturbing. The game is evolving, and I'm not sure that LeBeau can any longer make the changes required to keep up, especially against the top-tier teams in the league.

OK, fire away....

Crash
05-23-2012, 05:01 PM
What's ironic is LeBeau was the Bengals head coach when Jon Kitna beat us with spread formations and passing, then Brady did it, then Rich Gannon did it and it caught on.

So LeBeau knows how to attack his defense, but doesn't know how to correct the problems.

DukieBoy
05-23-2012, 06:08 PM
It will be good to watch Ben not have to run for his life to get a throw off to a receiver each and every play (except the bubble screens, of course). A bit more pocket passing and check-downs, with some Ben-improv, might just make this offense achieve commensurate with its talent.

Slapstick
05-23-2012, 09:31 PM
Neither the Ravens nor the Broncos beat the Steelers with spread formations last year...

Crash
05-23-2012, 09:47 PM
Neither the Ravens nor the Broncos beat the Steelers with spread formations last year...

No the Ravens just kicked LeBeau's pathetic 4th quarter defense in the ass again. It's happened 4 times since they drafted Unibrow.

And nothing changes. Just keeps everything in front of them, and assumes the opponent will make a mistake rather than force them to make a mistake.

DBR96A
05-23-2012, 10:24 PM
And nothing changes. Just keeps everything in front of them, and assumes the opponent will make a mistake rather than force them to make a mistake.

The defense kept nobody in front of them when they lost to the Broncos.

Crash
05-23-2012, 10:37 PM
I just keep thinking when Bill Cowher told gun slinger Tommy Maddox to "be careful" with the ball before 2003. They basically told him to "tweak" his game.

We all saw how that turned out.

You don't reign a QB in. You can't have a QB worried about making a mistake.

Only in YinzerBurgh.

feltdizz
05-23-2012, 11:23 PM
Tommy Maddox? Really.... lol

Crash
05-23-2012, 11:30 PM
Tommy Maddox? Really.... lol

Any QB. You don't change QBs. You let them be who they are. Once Noll figured out that Terry would make his mistakes and stopped jerking him around (including a benching for Terry friggin' Hanratty in 1974), but he'd also make more plays, only then did they start to win championships.

Like I always say in regards to Ben: You take the bad with the great.

If that's not good enough? Send him on his way and start over.

Noll drove Bradshaw crazy to the point that Terry wanted traded. Good thing Dan Rooney didn't do it.

Seems that Dan Rooney may be the ONLY one who actually VALUES franchise QBs.

Jooser
05-24-2012, 05:17 AM
Any QB. You don't change QBs. You let them be who they are. Once Noll figured out that Terry would make his mistakes and stopped jerking him around (including a benching for Terry friggin' Hanratty in 1974), but he'd also make more plays, only then did they start to win championships.

Like I always say in regards to Ben: You take the bad with the great.

If that's not good enough? Send him on his way and start over.

Noll drove Bradshaw crazy to the point that Terry wanted traded. Good thing Dan Rooney didn't do it.

Seems that Dan Rooney may be the ONLY one who actually VALUES franchise QBs.

Rooney: "Ben, Bruce, be careful in the redzone...you might score alot of points if you're not careful." :rolleyes:

Mister Pittsburgh
05-24-2012, 08:46 AM
Dejan is a clown anymore. Trying to become a real crap stirrer.

Pops8
05-24-2012, 10:09 AM
Like I always say in regards to Ben: You take the bad with the great.



There is truth to this, but you also don't just want him to stay the same. Great players evolve and adapt to changes in the game and changes in themselves (i.e. age). It isn't too much to ask that a player try and learn new things. Sometimes those things don't work for that player so you let them go. The one thing you can't do is make a player something he is not. The coaches have to find this balance. Ben has to be allowed to free form; that is at the core of who he is. That doesn't mean he can't also learn a few new tricks along the way. My feeling with Ben is he does learn new things and does adapt, but he needs a bit of a push to get there.

Sugar
05-24-2012, 11:13 AM
There is truth to this, but you also don't just want him to stay the same. Great players evolve and adapt to changes in the game and changes in themselves (i.e. age). It isn't too much to ask that a player try and learn new things. Sometimes those things don't work for that player so you let them go. The one thing you can't do is make a player something he is not. The coaches have to find this balance. Ben has to be allowed to free form; that is at the core of who he is. That doesn't mean he can't also learn a few new tricks along the way. My feeling with Ben is he does learn new things and does adapt, but he needs a bit of a push to get there.

He went out of his way to hire a coach to work with him on things while he was suspended. I think he's shown that he's open to getting help if he needs to.

Based on who we got in the draft, he would be better even if they made no changes this year from last but were able to maintain a consistent and healthy line.

Crash
05-24-2012, 11:15 AM
They aren't asking Ben to learn. They are asking Ben to CHANGE.

Big difference.

Sugar
05-24-2012, 11:17 AM
They aren't asking Ben to learn. They are asking Ben to CHANGE.

Big difference.

They are indeed asking him to learn a new playbook, that is certain.

Jooser
05-24-2012, 11:31 AM
More from NFL.com .......



Ben Roethlisberger to WRs: Be patient with me



By Gregg Rosenthal
Around The League editor
Published: May 24, 2012 at 08:46 a.m.

Two days into OTAs, it sounds like Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.planetsteelers.com/players/benroethlisberger/profile?id=ROE750381) hasn't quite cracked the "Rosetta Stone (http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d828fedbb)" that is the new Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.planetsteelers.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) offense. He's been trying to tell his receivers to remain patient with him (http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/story.asp?i=20120522141956732140708).
"I tried to tell (them) don't get frustrated because I know you're used to getting a lot more balls, but this is how it was my rookie year," Roethlisberger said, via The Associated Press. "I know what one guy does and I go to him. If he's not open, I start scrambling."
That's what Roethlisberger excels at. But new offensive coordinator Todd Haley is trying to teach Roethlisberger to play more from the pocket.

"I know that I'm supposed to get rid of the ball, stay in the pockets and not get hits," Roethlisberger. "I guess I better learn where the protections are coming from so I don't get hit."

These quotes may inspire some hang-wringing that the Steelers are taking away what Big Ben does best. But it's May, and it makes sense for the team to be focusing on the fundamentals of staying in the pocket. When the games start, he can start improvising again.

Still, it's clear that fundamental aspects of the Steelers offense is changing. They have added fullbacks. They have more tight ends on the field. And Isaac Redman (http://www.planetsteelers.com/players/isaacredman/profile?id=RED505171) told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette the team is focusing more on the running game this year (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-offense-is-under-construction-637341/).

Everything old is new again in Pittsburgh.

Crash
05-24-2012, 11:32 AM
But they want him to stay in the pocket, IMO you NEVER even say that to him.

You give him his playbook, you get to work, but at the same time, you allow him to be the player he is.

As hard as it is for people to accept? There WILL be times that Ben has to use his mobility to make a play.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 11:33 AM
They aren't asking Ben to learn. They are asking Ben to CHANGE.

Big difference.

Aaron Rodgers "tweaked" his game and beat the Steelers in a SB...

Ben can stand to "tweak" his game at 30 years old...

Crash
05-24-2012, 11:34 AM
Smashmouth. Yay.

Crash
05-24-2012, 11:39 AM
Aaron Rodgers "tweaked" his game

He did? When? In 2010 he took many big hits because he left the pocket and he suffered concussions and missed time as a result of it.

He also had 356 yards (his career high) rushing in 2010 in 15 games. Let's not pretend that all he did was stand in the pocket and fire away.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 12:09 PM
He did? When? In 2010 he took many big hits because he left the pocket and he suffered concussions and missed time as a result of it.

He also had 356 yards (his career high) rushing in 2010 in 15 games. Let's not pretend that all he did was stand in the pocket and fire away.

In 2009, Rodgers was sacked 50 times (his career high). In 2010, he was sacked 31 times...now, I'm not going to pretend that all he did was stand in the pocket and fire away...but, what he did was "tweak" his game to the tune of 19 less sacks...he didn't try to change his style wholesale, but if you give me a choice between taking 31 sacks and 50, I'll choose 31...

In 2009, Rodgers fumbled the ball 10 times (tied with 2008 for his career high). In 2010, Rodgers fumbled the ball only 4 times. Again, this tells me that he "tweaked" his game...

NOBODY, including AR II, wants to see a sea change in Ben's game...EVERYBODY, including Ben, would like to see him take fewer sacks...

Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

Oh, and Rodgers ran the ball a total of 6 more times in 2010 vs 2009...

Crash
05-24-2012, 12:31 PM
NOBODY, including AR II, wants to see a sea change in Ben's game...EVERYBODY, including Ben, would like to see him take fewer sacks...

Sacks aren't the problem. The constant jail breaks from the OL were. You improved the OL, that's great, but now you scrap the whole system for some psycho. That's bad.

Art has a choice, on 3rd and 10 what does he want Ben to do when the OL misses a block?

A) Avoid pressure and make a play

or

B) Throw the ball away and walk off the field?


Oh, and Rodgers ran the ball a total of 6 more times in 2010 vs 2009...


So much for tweaking his game.

Pops8
05-24-2012, 12:34 PM
They aren't asking Ben to learn. They are asking Ben to CHANGE.

Big difference.

I agree that asking him to stay in the pocket is a change which goes to my point - a player has to evolve but you can't make him be something he is not. Moving around is at the core of his game and you may very well be right. He may not be able to make that radical of a change. Randal Cunningham did it, but it took him until he got to the Vikes. I don't know if Ben can/wants to do it. I believe he will give it a try and with an improved line he may stay in the pocket longer but he will eventually move his feet and make a play. that is Ben.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 12:36 PM
[/COLOR]Sacks aren't the problem. The constant jail breaks from the OL were. You improved the OL, that's great, but now you scrap the whole system for some psycho. That's bad.

Art has a choice, on 3rd and 10 what does he want Ben to do when the OL misses a block?

A) Avoid pressure and make a play

or

B) Throw the ball away and walk off the field?

[/COLOR]


So much for tweaking his game.




Crash...Message Board Master of Straw Man and Ad Hominem Arguments...

Crash
05-24-2012, 12:45 PM
Crash...Message Board Master of Straw Man and Ad Hominem Arguments...

I'm not the one telling a HOF QB to tweak his game. Art II did.

Just like when the WRs didn't read hot routes, Ben holds the ball and takes a sack instead of just chucking it and somehow it's "he holds the ball too long".

A lawyer and a golf coach who have combined to play exactly zero games in the NFL are all of the sudden experts on NFL QB play.

Just brilliant.

phillyesq
05-24-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm not the one telling a HOF QB to tweak his game. Art II did.

Just like when the WRs didn't read hot routes, Ben holds the ball and takes a sack instead of just chucking it and somehow it's "he holds the ball too long".

A lawyer and a golf coach who have combined to play exactly zero games in the NFL are all of the sudden experts on NFL QB play.

Just brilliant.

Really, they have no qualifications at all. I bet they've never even posted on a message board!!

Crash
05-24-2012, 12:52 PM
What are their qualifications to teach a HOF player how to play QB? List them.

I'm all ears.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 01:07 PM
What are their qualifications to teach a HOF player how to play QB? List them.

I'm all ears.

Umm...Art II signs his checks and Haley is his OC...

That's enough for Ben...whether or not it is for you isn't relevant...

Eich
05-24-2012, 01:09 PM
What are their qualifications to teach a HOF player how to play QB? List them.

I'm all ears.

Just a guess.... but I'd say they are far more qualified than you are on anything football related.

And suggesting a "tweak" is hardly "Teaching a HOF player how to play QB".

You're only slightly more dramatic than Ben himself.

Crash
05-24-2012, 01:22 PM
Just a guess.... but I'd say they are far more qualified than you are on anything football related

How? They've played the same number of NFL games as I have. Sperm lottery winners. Nothing more.

All I heard for YEARS is how I never played in the NFL.

Well neither have Art or Haley.

Crash
05-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Umm...Art II signs his checks and Haley is his OC...

So when people accuse Jerry Jones of meddling and being in over his head as a "GM" they are wrong?

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 01:32 PM
So when people accuse Jerry Jones of meddling and being in over his head as a "GM" they are wrong?


[/COLOR]

No. Jerry Jones owns his team and nobody disputes his right to do what he wants with his team.

Now, whether or not he IS right to do so is the question...

Same thing with AR II. If you want to jump to an uninformed conclusion, you may do so...

Personally, I'll see if this "tweaking" benefits Ben as much as it did Aaron Rodgers...

BTW, neither Mike McCarthy nor Joe Philbin played a down in the NFL...hell, they didn't even play at the DII level in college...

phillyesq
05-24-2012, 01:33 PM
Umm...Art II signs his checks and Haley is his OC...

That's enough for Ben...whether or not it is for you isn't relevant...

Well said. The old golden rule -- he who has the gold makes the rules.

Crash
05-24-2012, 01:40 PM
Now, whether or not he IS right to do so is the question...

No no. There should be no question then. If he owns the team then he's obviously qualified to be the GM.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 01:49 PM
[/COLOR]
No no. There should be no question then. If he owns the team then he's obviously qualified to be the GM.

It will be determined by results...so far, AR II has Lombardi's in his trophy case, Jones does not...at least, not since JJ left...

I refuse to remember 1995...

RuthlessBurgher
05-24-2012, 01:52 PM
There is truth to this, but you also don't just want him to stay the same. Great players evolve and adapt to changes in the game and changes in themselves (i.e. age). It isn't too much to ask that a player try and learn new things. Sometimes those things don't work for that player so you let them go. The one thing you can't do is make a player something he is not. The coaches have to find this balance. Ben has to be allowed to free form; that is at the core of who he is. That doesn't mean he can't also learn a few new tricks along the way. My feeling with Ben is he does learn new things and does adapt, but he needs a bit of a push to get there.

Well said, Pops...but you'd have better luck convincing Rush Limbaugh to vote for Barack Obama than to convince Crash that Ben could possibly make improvements in his game.

In Crash's mind, Ben is perfect, Hines is the anti-Christ, "Yinzers" are stupid hicks stuck in the 70's, and attempting to argue with him on any of these stances will give you nothing but carpal tunnel syndrome.

Crash
05-24-2012, 01:53 PM
That's lovely. But in the real world Jerry beat the Rooney's.

There's a reason why owners should own, and let the "football people" they hire do their jobs.

Art seems to be forgetting that. Seems to like the spotlight too much.

Crash
05-24-2012, 01:55 PM
Well said, Pops...but you'd have better luck convincing Rush Limbaugh to vote for Barack Obama than to convince Crash that Ben could possibly make improvements in his game.

Telling Ben to stay in the pocket is like me telling Evgeni Malkin not to pass the puck.

It's dumb.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 01:59 PM
That's lovely. But in the real world Jerry beat the Rooney's.

There's a reason why owners should own, and let the "football people" they hire do their jobs.

Art seems to be forgetting that. Seems to like the spotlight too much.

Art has recent Lombardis...they're still shiny! He gets the benefit of a doubt...

phillyesq
05-24-2012, 02:10 PM
That's lovely. But in the real world Jerry beat the Rooney's.

There's a reason why owners should own, and let the "football people" they hire do their jobs.

Art seems to be forgetting that. Seems to like the spotlight too much.

The Rooney's aren't your typical ownership group. After all, Dan Rooney reportedly interceded in the draft room and was behind the selection of Ben. Without that involvement of the ownership group, your man-crush might very well be wearing a different uniform.

Crash
05-24-2012, 02:11 PM
Art has recent Lombardis...they're still shiny! He gets the benefit of a doubt...

Art didn't build these teams. If Art had his way Russ Grimm would be our head coach.

Crash
05-24-2012, 02:13 PM
The Rooney's aren't your typical ownership group. After all, Dan Rooney reportedly interceded in the draft room and was behind the selection of Ben. Without that involvement of the ownership group, your man-crush might very well be wearing a different uniform.

But Dan was also a key FO guy in the 1970s. Art II was a lawyer in PRIVATE PRACTICE for 20 YEARS. He didn't grow up around this team and earn his stripes around it. If you want to talk about Rooney underlings it's actually Dan Rooney Jr. who will be the "next one".

squidkid
05-24-2012, 03:02 PM
crash,
when the steelers offense ranks in the top 5 for a decade or so while at the same time the defense hovers around 15-20, you can blame the defense for losses. a game here or there doesnt prove your point.

Crash
05-24-2012, 03:04 PM
crash,
when the steelers offense ranks in the top 5 for a decade or so while at the same time the defense hovers around 15-20, you can blame the defense for losses. a game here or there doesnt prove your point.

Constant 4th quarter meltdowns prove my point. The first 45 minutes in a game mean NOTHING.

Because if it's a close game? LeBeau's prevent will come back to haunt them. Then we have to hope the offense brings them back.

squidkid
05-24-2012, 03:20 PM
Constant 4th quarter meltdowns prove my point. The first 45 minutes in a game mean NOTHING.

Because if it's a close game? LeBeau's prevent will come back to haunt them. Then we have to hope the offense brings them back.

well, we have an elite qb(according to you) so cominmg back to win should fall on ben. and since arians was a great oc for ben and let him wing it around, comebacks should have been easy.

RuthlessBurgher
05-24-2012, 03:20 PM
The first 45 minutes in a game mean NOTHING.

So you are telling me that I can show up at Heinz Field at 3:15 for 1:00 games and not miss anything? Awesome...now I don't have to leave the house at 5:00 a.m. to make the cross-state trek...I can sleep in a little longer now. Thanks, man! :roll:

squidkid
05-24-2012, 03:43 PM
Constant 4th quarter meltdowns prove my point. The first 45 minutes in a game mean NOTHING.

Because if it's a close game? LeBeau's prevent will come back to haunt them. Then we have to hope the offense brings them back.


so if dick lebeaus defense gave up 20 points each game in the first 3 quarters but shut every team out in the fourth quarter then the defense would be great and not at fault for losing?

squidkid
05-24-2012, 03:51 PM
the steelers offense scored 72 points in the 4th quarter last year
the defense gave up 57 points in the 4th quarter
15 point differential= < 1 point per game
6 times the defense allowed zero points in the 4th quarter last year. more than a third of the season
8 times the offense failed to score a single point in the 4th. half of the season the offense couldnt score a single point in the 4th quarter

squidkid
05-24-2012, 04:09 PM
the steelers offense scored 72 points in the 4th quarter last year
the defense gave up 57 points in the 4th quarter
15 point differential= < 1 point per game
6 times the defense allowed zero points in the 4th quarter last year. more than a third of the season
8 times the offense failed to score a single point in the 4th. half of the season the offense couldnt score a single point in the 4th quarter


actually game 15 versus the rams, batch put up 14 points in the 4th quarter and the defense gave up zero.............basically a wash for the entire season with ben QBing

Northern_Blitz
05-24-2012, 04:18 PM
Constant 4th quarter meltdowns prove my point. The first 45 minutes in a game mean NOTHING.

Because if it's a close game? LeBeau's prevent will come back to haunt them. Then we have to hope the offense brings them back.

Let's take this one step further. If the end of a game matters more than the beginning, does the end of the season (and the playoffs) matter more than the beginning of the season? I would say yes, being able to play well at the end of the season and into the playoffs makes champions (see our first championship under Ben).

If Ben keeps playing the way he has been, how many years will we have where at the end of the season he's got a broken nose, broken foot, or jacked up knee? I love the magic that Ben brings to the game. If we have to choose between seeing (1) unbridled Ben at 100% awesomeness in Sept / Oct, but can barely walk Ben in Dec / Jan and (2) 75-80% of Ben's magic for the regular season and a healthy Ben for the playoffs, I'd take option 2.

Improving the O-Line, and trying to increase the number of check downs and throw aways Ben uses is how we will try to maximize the number of healthy playoff runs we get out of our franchise QB. I think in your arguement, you're not accounting for injuries (which have been a significant factor for Ben). Despite the fact that Ben may be the toughest player in the league, these injuries hurt his performance and trying to reduce them is good for the team.

Crash
05-24-2012, 04:21 PM
So you are telling me that I can show up at Heinz Field at 3:15 for 1:00 games and not miss anything? Awesome

In a close game? Not a thing. Because no matter how dominant they play for three quarters? LeBeau's swao short gains for time defense rears it's ugly head.

Just like 2009, it wasn't injuries that did the defense in. It was scheme. If it were injuries, they wouldn't dominate for 3 quarters despite the injuries, they would have sucked ass all year.

Pops8
05-24-2012, 04:26 PM
crash,
when the steelers offense ranks in the top 5 for a decade or so while at the same time the defense hovers around 15-20, you can blame the defense for losses. a game here or there doesnt prove your point.

I don't argue that the D had warts and shoulders part of the blame. They certainly do. But focusing on the offense, what were they top 5 in specifically? Yards? Scoring? TOP? The offense hasn't been top 10 in scoring in a while. That is a problem for me.

No, that does not exonerate the defense.

Crash
05-24-2012, 04:27 PM
If Ben keeps playing the way he has been, how many years will we have where at the end of the season he's got a broken nose, broken foot, or jacked up knee?

Plenty as long as they continue to ignore the OL and insist on predictable 1975 football.

But they invested in the OL, so that's a good start, now they need to use the skill they have, tell Art and his running game demands to get bent, and focus on winning more championships.

High ankle sprains happen to everyone. I also feel Heinz Field is a direct result of MANY of the knee/leg/foot injuries we have up and down our lineup. Again, I blame the front office. To hell with the "tradition" of having a grass field (Ironically the Steelers won NOTHING until they switched to TRS and the turf) and get the Ravens version of field turf.

You want to reduce Ben's injuries? Then stop being predictable on offense.

ikestops85
05-24-2012, 05:20 PM
Plenty as long as they continue to ignore the OL and insist on predictable 1975 football.

But they invested in the OL, so that's a good start, now they need to use the skill they have, tell Art and his running game demands to get bent, and focus on winning more championships.

High ankle sprains happen to everyone. I also feel Heinz Field is a direct result of MANY of the knee/leg/foot injuries we have up and down our lineup. Again, I blame the front office. To hell with the "tradition" of having a grass field (Ironically the Steelers won NOTHING until they switched to TRS and the turf) and get the Ravens version of field turf.

You want to reduce Ben's injuries? Then stop being predictable on offense.

So you are saying that BA and Ben, the two play-callers on offense, are the reason for Ben's injuries. Interesting ...

I think we all agree that we need to be less predictable on offense and hopefully Haley and Ben can accomplish that. I'd just like us to be able to convert 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches without always having to pull the chains out and measure.

Crash
05-24-2012, 06:06 PM
Art wanted the emphasis on running, he got that. Ironically, Redman, Pouncey, and Colon are all saying there will be emphasis on running the ball in 2012 as well.

But Arians is no longer here is he?

Who's going to be blamed next when dinosaur football continues to fail this team?

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 07:20 PM
In a close game? Not a thing. [/COLOR]

And, over the last few years, with Arians and Ben working together, close games could be expected, even with the D shutting down opponents for 3 quarters...

RuthlessBurgher
05-24-2012, 08:02 PM
Art wanted the emphasis on running, he got that. Ironically, Redman, Pouncey, and Colon are all saying there will be emphasis on running the ball in 2012 as well.

But Arians is no longer here is he?

Who's going to be blamed next when dinosaur football continues to fail this team?

And several players have said that the emphasis of the offense is the play-action passing game (a pretty smart way to give our receivers time to get open deep, which Ben loves, instead of the Arians 7-step drop out of an empty backfield set so the defense can just pin its ears back and rush with reckless abandon). And guess what...in order to have an effective play-action passing game, you must be able to establish the run first. In Arizona, Haley's talent could pass but not run consistently. In Kansas City, Haley's talent could run but not pass consistently. In Pittsburgh, Haley's talent should have the ability to do both. Run when we need to run, pass when we need to pass, and keep the defense on its toes instead of always being able to predict what play is coming next based on our formation. A balanced offense...imagine that. If that's dinosaur football, then call me a velociraptor, baby.

Crash
05-24-2012, 08:15 PM
And, over the last few years, with Arians and Ben working together, close games could be expected, even with the D shutting down opponents for 3 quarters...

Because what happens Slap, is when this team takes a 4th quarter lead, the defense returns to the field and gives it right back. It cost them in 2009, it cost them when Ben was out in 2009, and it cost them the Ravens game when Ben didn't play in 2010.

Three things this defense will struggle with:

1. Opening drives of games.

2. Give back points after the Steelers score themselves.

3. 4th quarter defense.

Print those three things out, and watch how much it happens during the season.

Slapstick
05-24-2012, 10:19 PM
Cool.

The Steelers led the league in scoring defense...

If the offense can do better than 21st, there won't be a problem...

Crash
05-24-2012, 10:47 PM
And the offense keeping teams off the field is a big reason why.

But you can't protect the defense when they have to start a game, and you can't protect a defense when they have to go on the field after the Steelers score themselves.

And those two instances have been a weak spot for YEARS.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 06:56 AM
21st. Just score more.

Eich
05-25-2012, 09:23 AM
And the offense keeping teams off the field is a big reason why.

But you can't protect the defense when they have to start a game, and you can't protect a defense when they have to go on the field after the Steelers score themselves.

And those two instances have been a weak spot for YEARS.

If our offense is on the field for a long time and doesn't score. And then in another drive, they're on the field for a long time and they score, what the hell is the difference for the defense??

These "Weakenesses" you list (first drive of a game, anytime our offense scores and 4th quarter) make up nearly the ENTIRE GAME. If our Defense is weak the ENTIRE game, how in the hell do they ever rank number one in anything?

Saying that our defense is weak on the first drive, after anytime our offense scores and in the 4th quarter is basically a homer's reaction to giving up ANY points at all and not an analysis of any kind.

READ THIS CAREFULLY: IT'S AN OFFENSIVE-ORIENTED LEAGUE. THE RULES ARE GEARED TOWARDS THE OFFENSE. PASSING AND SCORING ARE AT AN ALL TIME HIGH FOR THE LEAGUE. The fact that our defense ranks number 1 and our offense is near the bottom in scoring should make it obvious where more emphasis needs to be placed. Only you would want to get rid of Lebeau instead of Arians after last seaon.

Crash
05-25-2012, 11:28 AM
READ THIS CAREFULLY: IT'S AN OFFENSIVE-ORIENTED LEAGUE. THE RULES ARE GEARED TOWARDS THE OFFENSE.

I agree with you. And yet, last off season? The Steelers shelled out over $130 MILLION in new contracts to three DEFENSIVE players.


Only you would want to get rid of Lebeau instead of Arians after last seaon.

Actually what I said (I wasn't posting here last season) was they BOTH should be gone.

hawaiiansteel
05-25-2012, 04:01 PM
by Neal Coolong on May 25, 2012

Roethlisberger's grasp of the offense

For whatever he says, Roethlisberger is a seasoned professional, and he'll eventually understand the Rosetta Stone. While it may be better overall for him to stop lofting softballs at the media and at least try to mention something he likes about the offense, what matters is his preparation on the field.

Whether it's him griping about a lack of perceived deeper pass opportunities, or him feeling like he's being targeted for the team's offensive slump in 2011, he has ample opportunity to learn the offense (doesn't have to be done in one day, mind you) and be the same highly productive player he is.

Maybe he's just letting off steam. We'll give him that, and hope he continues to do whatever he needs to do to enable him to lead this offense.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/5/25/3042741/steelers-news-ota-david-johnson-isaac-redman-ben-roethlisberger-todd-haley

Crash
05-25-2012, 04:15 PM
No doubt he's the target. Always is.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 04:48 PM
No doubt he's the target. Always is.

Weren't you the guy who said, and I'm paraphrasing, "If I'm Ben, I practice, play the game and talk to the media for ten minutes afterward. Then I go home."

Something like that?

You're right, because if he did that, he would be targeted a lot less...

How he deals with the media is very similar in some respects to how he plays...

Both could stand a "tweak"...

Crash
05-25-2012, 05:14 PM
Weren't you the guy who said, and I'm paraphrasing, "If I'm Ben, I practice, play the game and talk to the media for ten minutes afterward. Then I go home."

Something like that?

You're right, because if he did that, he would be targeted a lot less

Actually when had no use for the media he was labeled a bad guy by them.

Now he gives media plenty of quote and that's not good enough either.

Dude can't win.

My quote above has everything to do with cooperating with the media because of what Goodell and they did to him.

Let Brandon Marshall and Perrish Cox promote the game/league.

Slapstick
05-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Actually when had no use for the media he was labeled a bad guy by them.

Now he gives media plenty of quote and that's not good enough either.

Dude can't win.

I agree...

Instead of putting himself on blast all the time, let the media come up with their own ammunition...don't load their weapons for them...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." (Attributed to Abraham Lincoln)

steelz09
05-25-2012, 06:09 PM
I don't think Ben meant anything by his comments.... However, the "frustrating" comments was just a poor choice of words. The media is oozing at this Haley situation and that single word was just what the media was looking for.. adding fuel to fire.

hawaiiansteel
05-25-2012, 07:45 PM
I don't think Ben meant anything by his comments.... However, the "frustrating" comments was just a poor choice of words. The media is oozing at this Haley situation and that single word was just what the media was looking for.. adding fuel to fire.

I completely agree, when you use the word "frustrating" you are begging for the media to run with it...

Pope gives Haley playbook his blessing

Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012
By Mike Bires

PITTSBURGH – Leonard Pope has no doubts that Todd Haley’s offense will work. He’s sure of that because he’s experienced it firsthand.

A 6-foot-8 tight end signed by the Steelers during agency, Pope played in Kansas City the past three years when Haley was the Chiefs’ head coach. He was there in 2010 when KC had a quarterback (Matt Cassel), running back (Jamaal Charles) and wide receiver (Dewayne Bowe) go to the Pro Bowl.

Before that, Pope played in Arizona when Haley was the Cardinals’ offensive coordinator.

“A lot of guys might be having a hard time learning the playbook right now,” Pope said. “But we’re early in OTAs. It may be different from what they’ve done here in the past, especially the terminology part. But it’s still football.”

This week as the Steelers took part in the first three of 10 organized team activity workouts, Haley’s play book received a lot of attention. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger used the word “frustrating” to describe the transition from former O.C. Bruce Arians to Haley.

However, Pope says there’s nothing to worry about. In time, the Steelers’ offensive players will learn the terminology and understand the concepts.

“Todd knows what he’s doing,” Pope said. “Will we be more of a running team than the Steelers have been in the past? Will we throw it more? I don’t know. But I will say that Todd will know what his best options are each game and he will use them to the best of his ability.”

Terminology aside, there have already been some noticeable changes offensively.

There seems to be an extra emphasis on the running backs, not only with rushing the football, but also catching it.

For the wide receivers, they’re running different routes than they did during the five-year Arians era.

And Haley definitely has plans to use a fullback, something Arians rarely did. Back-up tight end David Johnson is now strictly a fullback.

"It's tough on everybody to learn a new offense and to learn a new system and new verbiage. We're just trying to get the hang of it,” running back Isaac Redman said. “This new offense is supposed to be easier on the offensive line, and we have a couple of new O-linemen coming in, so hopefully that will open it up.

"We're trying to get the ball to the running backs a little more this year, so we’ll see how that goes.”

“I’m loving the offense right now,” added wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders. “It’s based off play action. We have a lot more of the offense to put in, but we’re heading in the right direction.”

Because of his close relationship with Arians, Roethlisberger was upset when the Steelers decided to change offensive coordinators. After he got his hands on Haley’s playbook, Roethlisberger likened it to the Rosetta Stone. This week due to reports of friction between the star QB and the new O.C., Roethlisberger told the media that “there’s no trouble between us.”

Offensive lineman Willie Colon, who’s been switched from tackle to guard, believes the change will be good.

“I am not against change,” he said. “It helps us explore different dynamics of what this offense can be. We know we can be a running team. We have dynamic receivers and a great quarterback.

“From just being around (Haley), you can tell he's a passionate and strong-minded coach. He brings a great sense of balance. That’s going to feed both our strengths, so that’s going to be exciting.”

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/pope-gives-haley-playbook-his-blessing/article_41257ce6-a661-11e1-badf-001a4bcf6878.html

fordfixer
05-28-2012, 01:59 AM
I agree with you. And yet, last off season? The Steelers shelled out over $130 MILLION in new contracts to three DEFENSIVE players.


[/COLOR]
Actually what I said (I wasn't posting here last season) was they BOTH should be gone.







Also known as the good old day's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slapstick
05-28-2012, 10:24 AM
"Todd knows what he’s doing,” Pope said. “Will we be more of a running team than the Steelers have been in the past? Will we throw it more? I don’t know. But I will say that Todd will know what his best options are each game and he will use them to the best of his ability.”

Isn't this what fans have been clamoring for?

Crash
05-28-2012, 01:53 PM
Isn't this what fans have been clamoring for?

That's what Arians tried to do also.

Art II didn't like that. He demands more emphasis on running the ball.

Slapstick
05-28-2012, 03:22 PM
That's what Arians tried to do also.

Art II didn't like that. He demands more emphasis on running the ball.

If that's what Arians was trying to do, then he failed miserably...

21st...

Crash
05-28-2012, 03:43 PM
If that's what Arians was trying to do, then he failed miserably...

21st...

And like you were told, when an offense has to go 70-80 yards every time they score? You don't get cheap points when your defense forces less than one turnover a game for an entire season.

Just like the Texans game, they had the ball for 11 minutes before our offense ever saw the field. Let's blame Arians for not scoring in the first quarter.

Watch, don't READ.

You'll be better off.

Slapstick
05-28-2012, 03:49 PM
And like you were told, when an offense has to go 70-80 yards every time they score? You don't get cheap points when your defense forces less than one turnover a game for an entire season.

Just like the Texans game, they had the ball for 11 minutes before our offense ever saw the field. Let's blame Arians for not scoring in the first quarter.

Watch, don't READ.

You'll be better off.

Amazing that you can find a way to blame LeBeau and the defense for the offense's impotence...

Bravo...:Clap


I watched all of the games...

You can argue that I watched a defense that played well for 45 minutes and then like crap for 15...

I also saw an offense that played like crap for 45 minutes and played well for 15...

But, it's all on the D...

Crash
05-28-2012, 03:53 PM
Amazing that you can find a way to blame LeBeau and the defense for the offense's impotence

Can't score when you don't have the ball Slap.

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2012, 06:12 PM
Ben Roethlisberger Still Sounds Irritated About Learning a New Offense

May 31, 2012 by Eric Schmoldt

Ben Roethlisberger never sounded all that happy about the fact that his Pittsburgh Steelers were going to switch their offensive scheme under former Arizona Cardinals coach Todd Haley. And Roethlisberger is still sounding a bit irritated about his new offensive coordinator this summer.

Roethlisberger spends the following interview explaining how the Steelers are coming along when it comes to learning the new offense, but also dips into realms where he tells the fans they got their wish in wanting a more run-oriented offense and that he might revert back to his rookie year where he picked out one receiver and then bolted when they weren’t open.

Ben Roethlisberger joined 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh with Joe Starkey to discuss the new offense, not being comfortable with the change, meeting Todd Haley, the relationship with Haley, a run-oriented offense, if he’ll change his style of play to avoid hits and if he’ll still be allowed to make something out of nothing.

On the new offense:

“It’s starting to come together in pieces. When Coach calls a play, it’s not quite, ‘What’s everybody doing?’ It’s starting to come together and people are understanding and now we can start talking about the little nuances of what people are supposed to do.”

It seems clear from public comments that this change wasn’t comfortable to you. Is that accurate?:

“Absolutely. It’s different. It’s change. And I’m not saying that change is bad, but because it’s different and it’s something that you’re not comfortable and used to doing, you’re not going to be comfortable, obviously. But you’ve got to take the bull by the horns, as they say, and try and run with it.”

What was your first meeting with Todd Haley like?:

“You know what, it was so long ago, I don’t even remember anymore. But that got blown way out of proportion. There’s so many rules that we can’t talk and he was moving. There was so much going on that people decided to make a big deal out of, really, nothing.”

What’s your relationship like with him?:

“It’s just like this offense is a work in progress, so is learning the offense and learning each other. He’s learning me and I’m learning him just as much as he’s learning the rest of the players. So, we’re just taking every day one day at a time.”

But clearly you were comfortable with the way things were, right?:

“Well, absolutely. You do it for long enough, you get comfortable with anything.” So you weren’t necessarily in favor of the change, but you just have to jump on board?: “Yeah, absolutely. You have no choice. And we’re coming along and every day is getting a little bit better and we’re learning and we'll be running the ball a lot this year, so fans should be happy.”

Will you be running it a lot?:

“I think so. … That’s the way it seems. We’ve got some good ball carriers. I know [Isaac Redman] is excited for the opportunity and I know the fans want it, so it looks like they’ll be getting their wish.”

Does not taking as many hits require a change in your style of play?:

“No, I’m just going to play the game the way I know how to play. If injuries happen, they happen. I’m not going to go out and be scared and not play the game full tilt and with everything I’ve got.”

You’ve always been able to make something out of nothing. Is that still part of the gameplan?:

“You might see more of it because I don’t know what everybody’s doing on every play. So it may be like my rookie year where I find one guy and if he’s not open, I start scrambling. We’ll see.”

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/201...se-todd-haley/ (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/05/31/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-ben-roethlisberger-new-offense-todd-haley/)

Crash
05-31-2012, 06:17 PM
Listen to the interview. Not a big deal.

grotonsteel
05-31-2012, 06:19 PM
we'll be running the ball a lot this year, so fans should be happy.”




Wohooooo....here comes Marty Ball.

Run-Run and then watch Ben extend play on 3rd and Long to make a 3rd down completion. Wow this offense so majestic.

I think Steelers should have hired Charlie Wies. That was the only year KC Offense did something.

Crash
05-31-2012, 06:21 PM
Wohooooo....here comes Marty Ball.

Run-Run and then watch Ben extend play on 3rd and Long to make a 3rd down completion. Wow this offense so majestic.

I think Steelers should have hired Charlie Wies. That was the only year KC Offense did something.

Yep, and then Weiss quit because he was fed up with Haley.

Then supposedly before we hired him there was talk about him going back to AZ. Then rumors started that the rest of Whiz's staff made it clear to him they didn't want to work with Haley anymore.

hawaiiansteel
06-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Big Ben is taking the bull by the horns

Posted by Mike Florio on May 31, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/bigben-e1338496976892.jpg?w=250

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger wasn’t happy with the team’s decision to fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. Roethlisberger thereafter seemed to be a little concerned (to say the least) about the radio silence from Arians’ replacement, Todd Haley.

Now that Haley is on the job and installing a new offense, Roethlisberger is dealing with change. And it sounds like he has come to grips with that reality.

“Absolutely,” Roethlisberger told 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh (via SportsRadioInterviews.com) regarding whether he wasn’t comfortable with the changes initially. “It’s different. It’s change. And I’m not saying that change is bad, but because it’s different and it’s something that you’re not comfortable and used to doing, you’re not going to be comfortable, obviously. But you’ve got to take the bull by the horns, as they say, and try and run with it.”

While he liked things the way they were, Roethlisberger realizes that there’s only so much he can do about it. “You have no choice,” he said. “And we’re coming along and every day is getting a little bit better and we’re learning and we’ll be running the ball a lot this year, so fans should be happy.”

Roethlisberger compared his relationship with Haley to the process of adjusting to the new playbook and approach. “It’s just like this offense is a work in progress, so is learning the offense and learning each other,” Roethlisberger said. “He’s learning me and I’m learning him just as much as he’s learning the rest of the players. So, we’re just taking every day one day at a time.”

Roethlisberger confirmed the team will be running the ball more, with Isaac Redman getting a chance to step up. Other reports and accounts and descriptions indicate the tight end will have a bigger role in the offense, and Roethlisberger will spend more time in the pocket — even though he’s perhaps at his best when moving laterally, buying time as he drags defenders with him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/31/big-ben-is-taking-the-bull-by-the-horns/

hawaiiansteel
06-07-2012, 03:51 PM
Haley doesn't need to coddle Roethlisberger

JUN 7
By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley was asked if he was worried that quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has often expressed concern in transitioning to the new offense.

"I haven't sensed any of that concern, at least me personally," Haley said Wednesday in his first interview with Pittsburgh reporters since April. "He's in here, he's working hard. He's into it -- even the days when he hasn't practiced, he's over my shoulder, talking, commenting, discussing. That's what I've seen out of all the good quarterbacks -- really good quarterbacks -- that I've been around act like."

There shouldn't be any consternation even if Roethlisberger is concerned about assimilating to a new offense. This is June, not September. If Roethlisberger still is unsettled about the offense the night before playing the Broncos, that's when SteelerNation should sound the alarm.

This really shouldn't be an issue. Don't get me wrong, the franchise quarterback should be comfortable with the offense and a two-time Super Bowl-winning one should have a say in how the offense ultimately looks.

But it's not Haley's job to coddle Roethlisberger. It's his job to improve the 21st-ranked scoring offense. It's his job to boost the 18th-ranked red zone offense. And most importantly, it's his job to protect Roethlisberger.

There's little chance of the Steelers scoring more points and scoring more in the red zone without a healthy Roethlisberger. You just have to look at the Steelers' offense after Roethlisberger sustained a high-ankle sprain. The Steelers took a step forward in this area when they drafted guard David DeCastro and offensive tackle Mike Adams with their first two picks. But Haley has to get Roethlisberger to help himself as well.

I keep going back to right after the 2011 season when Art Rooney II said Roethlisberger may need to "tweak" his game. Haley needs to convince Roethlisberger to get rid of the ball quicker, and that means changing the way Roethlisberger thinks. One of Roethlisberger's biggest strengths is extending plays, and the Steelers can't eliminate that totally. The team just has to reduce this because it increases the chances of Roethlisberger getting hurt.

In Haley's two seasons as offensive coordinator in Arizona (2007-08), the Cardinals ranked in the top 11 in fewest sacks allowed. They gave up a total of 52 sacks in those two years, which is 12 more than Roethlisberger got sacked all of last season. A big reason for the low number of sacks in Arizona was Kurt Warner's quick decision-making. More fast-hitting passes should be in Roethlisberger's future. He excelled in this game plan last season when he picked apart the Patriots.

Changing to a new offense is a challenge for Roethlisberger because he hasn't had to do it. He might feel better about it when his body feels better at the end of the season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/cat...burgh-steelers (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/category/_/name/pittsburgh-steelers)

hawaiiansteel
06-12-2012, 06:24 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger coming to terms with change

Submitted by Syndicated sources on June 12, 2012


One of the biggest stories of the offseason for the Pittsburgh Steelers has been about change. Gone are veterans James Farrior, Hines Ward and Aaron Smith, as well as offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. While the players are sorting themselves out, the coaching situation has been solidified by Todd Haley and his Rosetta Stone of a playbook.At first, Pro Bowl quarterback Ben Roethlisberger seemed distant about the playbook, voicing displeasure at every opportunity. Fortunately, that opposition seems to be lifting as the team heads to mini-camp. In fact, Roethlisberger has been slowly starting to say all the things fans are looking for, especially considering that a positive attitude and progression are keys to mastering a new system.

When asked about the offense following the end of team’s OTA sessions on Thursday he had this to say. "We've made some strides. Every day is a little bit better. I'm not saying I could go out and call a game myself right now but I understand when (Haley) calls a play I know what’s going on for the most part." Of course, there are still some concerns about the new system, but Roethlisberger’s positive outlook is something many did not see coming this soon in the offseason following some of the comments the quarterback made earlier in the year.

Another concern is along the offensive line (again) where first round pick guard David DeCastro and second round pick tackle Mike Adams could begin their careers as starters on his offensive line. On that note, Roethlisberger had this to say about the idea, “As long as they do their job, I don’t care.”

While his views on the potential rookie starters are not earth shattering, he did manage to make some waves during the interview. He seemed to be making a statement wearing number 78 in honor of former Pittsburgh Steelers tackle, Max Starks, who is an unrestricted free agent recovering from an ACL injury suffered during the playoffs.

Roethlisberger left much to the imagination of the reporters about his attire only really commenting that Starks was doing well and feels fine. Given the recent direction of the Steelers organization during the draft, fans wonder if Starks will return or if his days in the black and gold are over. If he had his way, that left tackle position is one that would not change.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/pittsburgh_steelers_quarterback_ben_roethlisberger _coming_to_terms_with_change/10993097

RuthlessBurgher
06-13-2012, 10:08 AM
Another concern is along the offensive line (again) where first round pick guard David DeCastro and second round pick tackle Mike Adams could begin their careers as starters on his offensive line. On that note, Roethlisberger had this to say about the idea, “As long as they do their job, I don’t care.”


That's a far cry from “No, it’s not exciting. Do you want to go to work with some little young kid who’s just out of college?”

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 02:01 PM
Ben happy with first day of minicamp

Teresa Varley - Steelers.com
June 13, 2012


The Steelers put in a full day of work on Tuesday, with two practices to jump start their three-day minicamp.

“I am sore and tired,” said quarterback Ben Roethlisberger when asked how he felt after the second practice. “I forgot how old I am and my body is wearing down. I just tried to get through this first day. We got through it and now get ready for tomorrow.”

Roethlisberger had his first opportunity to work with the team’s two top draft picks, guard David DeCastro and tackle Mike Adams, but said he would like to look at the tape of practice before weighing in on how they looked.

“The hard part about it is it’s hard for me to watch them because I am doing a rep and then when I remember to watch them it seems like it’s their last rep,” said Roethlisberger. “I have to watch them on film.”

One player who was missing from minicamp is wide receiver Mike Wallace, who still has not signed his tender offer.

“I would love to have him here because he is a great friend and teammate,” said Roethlisberger. “I am not worried. I know he is going to get here when it’s right and when they get something done.”

Roethlisberger seemed pleased, though, with how things went overall and it appears he is getting more comfortable with Todd Haley’s offense.

“We did pretty good,” said Roethlisberger. “I am speaking about the guys I get reps with. I felt like the day went well.”

Roethlisberger did admit that he made some mistakes with terminology during practice, but doesn’t expect that to be a problem for long.

“I called a play I thought was a play but it’s a formation now,” said Roethlisberger. “I got mixed up but we got it straightened out. I make that mistake once or twice a day where I revert back to old things or words. I have to try not to do that anymore. It’s like riding a bike with training wheels and hopefully we will get them off soon.”

* * *

It wasn’t just football that Roethlisberger talked about on Tuesday. He recently announced on his website that he and his wife Ashley are expecting a son later this year and he talked about being a father after practice.

“Family is super important to me,” said Roethlisberger. “We are excited. I can’t wait for the day to come.”

Roethlisberger said he will look to the examples set by his own father, Ken, to help him be a good father.

“I have said many times he is my role model,” said Roethlisberger. “If I could be like him I would be happy. That is who I am modeling my future fatherhood after.”

Steelers’ fans will be happy to hear that Roethlisberger’s wish is to be able to hold his son on the field after winning a Super Bowl one day.

“You talk to any player and the ultimate goal is to have your son or daughter at a Super Bowl,” said Roethlisberger. “So that is going to be my goal now to get a Super Bowl. There is nothing better than having your family with you when you are on the field and that confetti is falling on you.”

http://www.steelers.com/news/article...9-c99bc862b7fc (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Ben-happy-with-first-day-of-minicamp/9e3d3949-116b-42fb-a049-c99bc862b7fc)
__________________

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 05:03 PM
Ben Roethlisberger: 'Not going to change'

June 13, 2012
By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com


PITTSBURGH -- As the Pittsburgh Steelers wrap up their final minicamp of the offseason this week, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger made it clear that he is learning a new offense and not a new style of play.

Reducing the hits on Roethlisberger has been a major story line this offseason from Art Rooney saying the Super Bowl-winning quarterback might have to "tweak" his game to the Steelers using their first two draft picks on offensive linemen.

Roethlisberger reiterated Wednesday that he won't change his mindset of extending plays just to cut down on the number of shots from defensive players.

"I’m not going to change my game," Roethlisberger said. "Coach can do what he wants to add protection and do things like that. I’m going to play the game the way I know how. It’s worked OK for me so far."

No AFC quarterback was sacked more than Roethlisberger last season (40 times), and no quarterback in the NFL has endured more than the 261 sacks he has since 2006.

While Roethlisberger has only missed two games because of injuries the past four seasons, his performance suffered last season as he battled through a sprained foot (which required a metal plate in his shoe), a broken right thumb and a high-ankle sprain.

"I don’t think there is this big revelation like I need to do this and do that," Roethlisberger said. "It’s 'don’t take hits,' but I don’t know how to do that."

New offensive coordinator Todd Haley said last week that he won't try to limit the number of times Roethlisberger throws on the run.

"It's one of the best things he does, and it's what separates him from all the other guys in the league for the most part," Haley said. "So you don't want to take that great ability away from him."

Asked if anyone has told him to go down and not take so many hits, Roethlisberger said, "Yeah, all the time. My mom, my wife and my grandma."

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/49704/roethlisberger-not-going-to-change

Crash
06-13-2012, 05:09 PM
He's right. He starts playing scared and concerned for injuries and he's done.

Remember, Bill Cowher told "gun slinger" Tommy Maddox to "be careful" with the football in 2003.

The Steelers went 6-10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K8Ln5TQjwo

If Ben takes the easy way out? We lose.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 06:58 PM
Cowher and Whis both told Ben to be careful at 7-5 in 2005...

The Steelers won the next 8...

Crash
06-13-2012, 07:09 PM
Cowher and Whis both told Ben to be careful at 7-5 in 2005...

The Steelers won the next 8...

They did? If anything their refusal to listen to their franchise QB almost cost them SB XL.

They were too worried about getting Bettis a TD in Detroit. Do what they should have been doing and the idiots who complain about the officiating don't have a leg to stand on.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 07:10 PM
They did?

Didn't you watch?

Crash
06-13-2012, 07:12 PM
Didn't you watch?

Sure. I remember Ben pleading with Cowher to play football and not be too conservative. Cowher "guaranteed" they would.

Right up to the point they kept putting the ball in Bettis' belly for nothing in the red zone.

squidkid
06-13-2012, 07:31 PM
Sure. I remember Ben pleading with Cowher to play football and not be too conservative. Cowher "guaranteed" they would.

Right up to the point they kept putting the ball in Bettis' belly for nothing in the red zone.


maybe they were worried that ben would choke again near the goalline and throw another int.

Crash
06-13-2012, 07:42 PM
maybe they were worried that ben would choke again near the goalline and throw another int.

Choke what again? The first time they were in the red zone that game Ben saved Jerome's ass.

Just like he saved him in Indy.

Just like he saved him when he almost fumbled a red zone HB option pass hand off and then short hopped a wide open Heath Miller in the end zone in Cincy on the same play.

Too worried about Jerome, and not enough worrying about winning.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 07:44 PM
And yet, they won...

Crash
06-13-2012, 08:23 PM
And yet, they won...

And we all know why.

If not for Ben Jerome Bettis is Bill Buckner for life.

Slapstick
06-13-2012, 09:19 PM
That tackle may have been a better individual football play by Ben than the GW TD in XLIII.

hawaiiansteel
06-13-2012, 11:53 PM
Ben Roethlisberger: I don’t know how to avoid taking hits

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 13, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/roethlisbergersmile.jpg?w=141

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger says that for anyone who wants him to change the way he plays to avoid taking hits and stay healthier, he has some bad news: He doesn’t know how.

Roethlisberger spoke to reporters in the Steelers’ locker room today and said that the key to staying healthy is to avoid getting hit. But the only way he knows how to play the quarterback position is the way he’s always played it, and sometimes contact is part of that.

“I don’t think there’s this big revelation, like I need to do this or I need to do that,” Roethlisberger said. “It’s, ‘Don’t take hits.’ But I don’t know how to do that.”

Of course, it could be on the Steelers’ coaches — specifically new offensive coordinator Todd Haley — to teach Roethlisberger how. But Roethlisberger said that all the coaches can do is change the Steelers’ protections, because he has no intention of changing the way he plays.

“I’m not going to change my game,” Roethlisberger said. “Coach can do what he wants to add protection and do things like that, but I’m going to play the game the way I know how. It’s worked OK for me so far.”

It’s easy to see why Roethlisberger would think he doesn’t need to change: He’s been awfully successful the way he is. But three months after he turned 30 years old, it may be time for him to think about how he can keep playing well for years to come, by finding a way to take fewer hits.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/13/ben-roethlisberger-i-dont-know-how-to-avoid-taking-hits/

Crash
06-13-2012, 11:58 PM
He's 100% right. You let him play. The one who has to avoid him being hit is Haley.

They should run the Saints offense, not just in formations, but the half rolls, waggles, mis-directions they have Brees doing before he throws.

That's how you keep Ben clean. You don't limit his chances to throw the football.

hawaiiansteel
06-14-2012, 12:04 AM
He's 100% right. You let him play. The one who has to avoid him being hit is Haley.

They should run the Saints offense, not just in formations, but the half rolls, waggles, mis-directions they have Brees doing before he throws.

That's how you keep Ben clean. You don't limit his chances to throw the football.


I agree, and that's yet another thing that irked me so much about Arians.

with the sieve of an OL we had last year at times why would you continue to get Ben killed over and over again with slow developing 7-step drop passes?

BradshawsHairdresser
06-14-2012, 12:04 AM
Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger says that for anyone who wants him to change the way he plays to avoid taking hits and stay healthier, he has some bad news: He doesn’t know how.

Roethlisberger spoke to reporters in the Steelers’ locker room today and said that the key to staying healthy is to avoid getting hit. But the only way he knows how to play the quarterback position is the way he’s always played it, and sometimes contact is part of that.

“I don’t think there’s this big revelation, like I need to do this or I need to do that,” Roethlisberger said. “It’s, ‘Don’t take hits.’ But I don’t know how to do that.”

“I’m not going to change my game,” Roethlisberger said. “Coach can do what he wants to add protection and do things like that, but I’m going to play the game the way I know how. It’s worked OK for me so far.”


And what else would anyone expect? Like he's going to say, "Yup, I've got to totally reinvent the way I play QB"....:roll:

hawaiiansteel
06-14-2012, 12:39 AM
Roethlisberger explains initial concern over changing the offense

June 13th, 2012
by Mark Kaboly

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was not thrilled with the notion of changing offensive coordinators during the offseason, and plenty figured it was because of the relationship he developed with Bruce Arians.

It turns out that was only part of the reason for Roethlisberger’s trepidation.

Roethlisberger said today during the Steelers second day of mandatory minicamp on the South Side that the biggest issue he had with bringing in a new offensive coordinator and a new offensive scheme after eight years in the league was that it would force him to start the learning process over at the most inopportune time – heading into the prime of his career.

“That was it early on,” Roethlisberger said. “I felt like I was really starting … I was hopefully going to be coming into the prime of my career and starting all over with an offense.”

Historically, quarterbacks who make the jump from great to elite status do it during their early 30s. Roethlisberger turned 30 in March, and already owns most of the Steelers’ passing records while winning a pair of Super Bowls and playing in a third.

Roethlisberger is one of 10 quarterbacks who have won multiple Super Bowls. Jim Plunkett is the only non-active quarterback on that list not in the Hall of Fame (Eli Manning and Tom Brady).

Roethlisberger said that bringing in Todd Haley and a new offense just forces him to work harder.

“You know what, it kind of put a little extra on me and the rest of the guys to learn the offense and learn something new,” Roethlisberger said.

Roethlisberger has six-straight 3,000-yard passing seasons and a career passer rating of 92.1. He has a 90-37 career record including 10-4 in the postseason.

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/06/13/roethlisberger-explains-initial-concern-over-changing-offense/#.T9jihaYoUWg.twitter

Slapstick
06-14-2012, 10:35 AM
He's 100% right. You let him play. The one who has to avoid him being hit is Haley.

They should run the Saints offense, not just in formations, but the half rolls, waggles, mis-directions they have Brees doing before he throws.

That's how you keep Ben clean. You don't limit his chances to throw the football.

Part of the reason the Saints do that is because Brees is so short...

But, any of those misdirection/bootleg/sprint-out type plays really lend themselves to a lot of play-action passing...

feltdizz
06-14-2012, 01:16 PM
“I’m not going to change my game,” Roethlisberger said. “Coach can do what he wants to add protection and do things like that, but I’m going to play the game the way I know how. It’s worked OK for me so far.”

prepare to see Ben creatively find ways to get hit if our OL protection improves....

Crash
06-14-2012, 01:25 PM
God save Ben's ass the first time he does the Peyton Flop.

feltdizz
06-14-2012, 03:12 PM
God save Ben's ass the first time he does the Peyton Flop.

Ben survived a motorcycle crash, 2 sexual assault accusations, losing his uncle OC, Hines, Holmes, Plax and Faneca....

I think he can survive a few "OMG's" after avoiding a hit. :p

Crash
06-14-2012, 03:49 PM
I think he can survive a few "OMG's" after avoiding a hit. :p

The "Peyton Flop" is not avoiding a hit. It's quitting on a play.

And the minute Ben does it ONCE? They'll bitch.

Sugar
06-14-2012, 05:13 PM
The "Peyton Flop" is not avoiding a hit. It's quitting on a play.

And the minute Ben does it ONCE? They'll bitch.

I guess that would be one way of "tweaking" his game.

hawaiiansteel
06-15-2012, 04:06 AM
The "Peyton Flop" is not avoiding a hit. It's quitting on a play.

And the minute Ben does it ONCE? They'll bitch.


don't worry, Ben doesn't know how to quit. it's not in his nature...

BURGH86STEEL
06-15-2012, 05:55 AM
The "Peyton Flop" is not avoiding a hit. It's quitting on a play.

And the minute Ben does it ONCE? They'll bitch.

Everyone knows Ben's a tough QB. Quitting on a play is sometimes a smart play. Better to live to play another play then play with an injury or end up on the sideline with an injury.

feltdizz
06-15-2012, 08:37 AM
The "Peyton Flop" is not avoiding a hit. It's quitting on a play.

And the minute Ben does it ONCE? They'll bitch.

They = Crash

Crash
06-15-2012, 12:36 PM
They = Crash

Nope. Not me. I hope Ben gives Art II what he wants. But when fans turn on Ben for merely doing what his owner wanted? Art better have his back in the press for doing it.

flippy
06-15-2012, 12:58 PM
Nope. Not me. I hope Ben gives Art II what he wants. But when fans turn on Ben for merely doing what his owner wanted? Art better have his back in the press for doing it.

Paying Ben $100M+ is a pretty good indication Art II has his back. :)

Crash
06-15-2012, 01:00 PM
Paying Ben $100M+ is a pretty good indication Art II has his back. :)

Allowing Goodell to make up his own rules proves that to be inaccurate.

Jones or Kraft would have told Goodell to get bent.

flippy
06-15-2012, 01:04 PM
Allowing Goodell to make up his own rules proves that to be inaccurate.

Jones or Kraft would have told Goodell to get bent.

Odds are Rooney called the shots and let Goodell deliver the message.

Crash
06-15-2012, 01:06 PM
Odds are Rooney called the shots and let Goodell deliver the message.

Not four games. No way. My guess is Ben, based on II's words agreed to a 1-2 game suspension by the Rooney's.

But Goodell wanted MORE. Remember, the Rooney's were concerned that Goodell was going to give him EIGHT. That's why they got Leftwich back.

That doesn't sound like they were calling the shots at all.

flippy
06-15-2012, 01:11 PM
Not four games. No way. My guess is Ben, based on II's words agreed to a 1-2 game suspension by the Rooney's.

But Goodell wanted MORE. Remember, the Rooney's were concerned that Goodell was going to give him EIGHT. That's why they got Leftwich back.

That doesn't sound like they were calling the shots at all.

I thought the Rooney's wanted to send a message. They were even leaking to the media that they were considering trading him.

Crash
06-15-2012, 01:24 PM
Not a 4 game message.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-15-2012, 01:28 PM
Not four games. No way. My guess is Ben, based on II's words agreed to a 1-2 game suspension by the Rooney's.

But Goodell wanted MORE. Remember, the Rooney's were concerned that Goodell was going to give him EIGHT. That's why they got Leftwich back.

That doesn't sound like they were calling the shots at all.

All just speculation on your part.

I personally think the Rooneys were behind the longer suspension. And I don't mean just II, but old Dan, too. Reports were they were fed up, and wanted to send a message Ben would be sure to understand.

I don't remember anything about the Rooneys expressing concern over a possible 8-game suspension. I'd like to see an article that states that. As I recall, 6 was the maximum that was actually kicked around, at least publicly.

feltdizz
06-15-2012, 01:34 PM
Nope. Not me. I hope Ben gives Art II what he wants. But when fans turn on Ben for merely doing what his owner wanted? Art better have his back in the press for doing it.


The only time fans turned on Ben is when it appeared he was turning his back on the fans with reckless behavior...

BradshawsHairdresser
06-15-2012, 01:35 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5527564

Roethlisberger is the first player suspended by Goodell under the NFL's personal conduct policy who was not arrested, charged with or convicted of a crime. However, Goodell said in April the policy allows him to impose such a penalty when the league's integrity and reputation are at stake.
Roethlisberger's representatives at one point wanted the suspension cut in half, to three games, but Goodell stipulated in April it would be a six-game ban that could only be reduced to four games.
Steelers president Art Rooney accompanied Roethlisberger on his trip to see Goodell. Rooney and his organization kept in frequent contact with Goodell throughout the four-month process, during which Roethlisberger underwent extensive evaluations.
Indeed, Goodell's ruling was made in consultation with Rooney and the Steelers, who were angered by the two-time Super Bowl winner's behavior and would have punished him if the league hadn't.

feltdizz
06-15-2012, 01:37 PM
Not four games. No way. My guess is Ben, based on II's words agreed to a 1-2 game suspension by the Rooney's.

But Goodell wanted MORE. Remember, the Rooney's were concerned that Goodell was going to give him EIGHT. That's why they got Leftwich back.

That doesn't sound like they were calling the shots at all.

Why the hell do you keep doing this? Every thread about Ben turns into you whining over the suspension.

feltdizz
06-15-2012, 01:39 PM
Bradshaw don't waste your time. Facts don't matter to this guy... all he cares about is crying over spilt milk.

Jooser
06-15-2012, 01:53 PM
Dude must live in his mom's basement with nothing to do but scratch his arse and plague Steeler boards all freaking day. Is that you, Kip?

578

Crash
06-15-2012, 02:21 PM
The only time fans turned on Ben is when it appeared he was turning his back on the fans with reckless behavior...

So he was drinking in a bar because he was turning on the fans?

That's rich.

Crash
06-15-2012, 02:28 PM
However, Goodell said in April the policy allows him to impose such a penalty when the league's integrity and reputation are at stake.

Where does the policy state that? Please show me. Because according to Goodell's boy Greg Aiello? You aren't eligible for PCP suspension unless you are charged with a crime.

Seems to me that Goodell can flat out lie, but his underlings can't keep their mouths shut long enough to protect him.


Indeed, Goodell's ruling was made in consultation with Rooney and the Steelers, who were angered by the two-time Super Bowl winner's behavior and would have punished him if the league hadn't.

I agree, the Rooney's would have suspended him.

But not four games.

As I said, I believe based on what II had stated based on HIS meetings with Ben (BEFORE Goodell suspended him), that they agreed to 1 or 2.

Goodell decided to make it four because he was accused of favoring white players while suspending black players like Vick and Pac Man.

Remember, ESPN REPORTED that the Rooney's were going to ask Goodell to make it LESS than four games when they were going to Ben's second meeting with Goodell.

But it was the PG who reported that Ben's people didn't go for that because THEY FELT, by doing so, that it would PO Goodell, and he would leave it at SIX GAMES.

Now, does that sound like the $%^&*() Rooney's were in agreement of a four game rip?

flippy
06-15-2012, 02:56 PM
Dude must live in his mom's basement with nothing to do but scratch his arse and plague Steeler boards all freaking day. Is that you, Kip?

578

Kip chats online with babes all day. I wanna go watch that movie now.

hawaiiansteel
06-15-2012, 03:08 PM
Goodell decided to make it four because he was accused of favoring white players while suspending black players like Vick



it's utterly ridiculous to compare what Ben and Vick did.

for starters, we're talking about completely different kinds of dogs here...


http://younghipscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/andrea-mcnulty-Ben-Roethlisberger-600x366.jpg

Crash
06-15-2012, 03:15 PM
it's utterly ridiculous to compare what Ben and Vick did.

for starters, we're talking about completely different kinds of dogs here...


http://younghipscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/andrea-mcnulty-Ben-Roethlisberger-600x366.jpg

Ooof......

You know what's funny though? When that lawsuit was filed? Aiello stated he wasn't even sure that Ben could face suspension, because it was a civil suit. Which would mesh with his later statements regarding Brandon Marshall.

Then Goodell decided to use Reno as a reason to suspend him anyway, and the Rooney's sat there and let him do it.

Disgraceful.

Here's an oldie but goodie quote:

‎"The commissioner wasn't measuring the facts, but rather the [media] fallout. He knows I think that was inappropriate."

-David Cornwell on Ben Roethlisberger's suspension

Any Steelers fan with a brain in their head would see Goodell for the corrupt bastard he is.

What's worse is the Rooney's do nothing about it.

hawaiiansteel
06-15-2012, 04:13 PM
Kovacevic: Of Big Ben, big men, scatbacks

By Dejan Kovacevic
Published: Friday, June 15, 2012,

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=MDPnO xcaCCmHg2mLk5Wri8$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYt$l5X_zoeedA7 xRMlv9Cl7WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&amp;CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Mini-thoughts, mini-observations of the Steelers' minicamp that concluded Thursday on the South Side ...

• For all the buzz about Big Ben's pending mini-Roethlisberger and the resultant change in his life, the best change I noticed over the three weeks of OTAs and minicamp was this: He pouted less with each passing day about Todd Haley's playbook.

Roethlisberger conceded Wednesday he initially was troubled by having to switch after eight years in the NFL, and his comment was telling: "That was it early on."

See the past tense?

Here's hoping he keeps it that way.

• Actual visible, audible signs of friction between Roethlisberger and Haley these past three weeks: Zero.

• The playbook won't take center stage until preseason, but the best early way to describe it is that it will be all things to all people. Expect Haley to show opponents a lot of different looks, formations, even personnel sets.

And expect that no one will love this more than Heath Miller. Haley loves to soften up the middle, and few in football do that better than No. 83.

"The more we spread the ball around and get everyone involved, the more difficult, in my mind, we would be to defend," Miller said. "I don't sit around and crave catching 100 balls. I just want to win."

That doesn't need to be mutually exclusive.

• Next time you'll see the football club will be at maxicamp. Only 40 days until Latrobe.

http://triblive.com/sports/1991975-74/haley-redman-steelers-issue-mike-mini-past-roethlisberger-weeks-minicamp

BradshawsHairdresser
06-15-2012, 05:10 PM
Where does the policy state that? Please show me. Because according to Goodell's boy Greg Aiello? You aren't eligible for PCP suspension unless you are charged with a crime.

Seems to me that Goodell can flat out lie, but his underlings can't keep their mouths shut long enough to protect him.



I agree, the Rooney's would have suspended him.

But not four games.

As I said, I believe based on what II had stated based on HIS meetings with Ben (BEFORE Goodell suspended him), that they agreed to 1 or 2.

Goodell decided to make it four because he was accused of favoring white players while suspending black players like Vick and Pac Man.

Remember, ESPN REPORTED that the Rooney's were going to ask Goodell to make it LESS than four games when they were going to Ben's second meeting with Goodell.

But it was the PG who reported that Ben's people didn't go for that because THEY FELT, by doing so, that it would PO Goodell, and he would leave it at SIX GAMES.

Now, does that sound like the $%^&*() Rooney's were in agreement of a four game rip?

Well, you won't find me defending the heavy-handed tactics of Herr Goodell. But I can't remember reading anything about the Rooneys lobbying for less than four games. It would be nice if you would cite an article. If the Rooneys were indeed lobbying to get Ben less than four games, it's hard for me to believe that Goodell (who works for them) would have slapped him with 6 games and the threat of 8.

Crash
06-15-2012, 05:32 PM
It was supposedly someone in Ben's camp who was going to ask for less than four and the Rooney's were going to back him.


Then it came out that others in Roethlisberger's camp weren't going to go for that in fear it would remain at six.


The 8 game fear was before he was suspended at all, that was why they got Byron back.


Cornwell said that in a prior discussion with Goodell the commissioner had raised the possibility of an "indefinite" suspension.

"I understand that he may have expressed to the Rooneys (Steelers' owners) that 8-10 (games) was in the realm of possibility," said Cornwell.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/04/attorney-ben-roethlisberger-wants-to-stay-a-member-of-the-pittsburgh-steelers/1#.T9upYRdfGyo

Now, does that sound like an organization that was "calling the shots" with Roger Goodell?

Jooser
06-16-2012, 08:58 AM
Kovacevic: Crash, get over it.

Crash
06-16-2012, 12:17 PM
Kovacevic: Crash, get over it.

Crash: Jooser, no.

Slapstick
06-16-2012, 12:33 PM
Here's an oldie but goodie quote:

‎"The commissioner wasn't measuring the facts, but rather the [media] fallout. He knows I think that was inappropriate."

-David Cornwell on Ben Roethlisberger's suspension


Why was this such a huge point of discussion awhile ago? This is exactly what a lot of us on the board were saying...

Crash
06-16-2012, 12:51 PM
Why was this such a huge point of discussion awhile ago? This is exactly what a lot of us on the board were saying...

But you won't agree on the media agenda though. Their angle was RACE, not who he is.

When media made it a point to tell Goodell to treat Ben "like Vick and Pac Man", it's not to figure out what they mean.

When black players who play in the same division as Ben use social media to say "What would happen to me, if I were accused like Big Ben?", again, it's not hard to figure out what they are referring to.

They dared Goodell to suspend the uncharged cracker from Pittsburgh, and Goodell made up his own rules and did it.

And the Rooney's (Even with their background in practicing law) allowed it to happen.

Disgusting.

Slapstick
06-16-2012, 02:24 PM
If the media had said, "white quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger" when they were talking about any allegations, you would have a point...

As it stands, a bigger factor was who he is rather than what color he is...

The media fallout wasn't because he was white...

Crash
06-16-2012, 03:04 PM
The media fallout wasn't because he was white...

The words in print suggest otherwise. You choose not to read them.

RuthlessBurgher
06-16-2012, 03:42 PM
it's utterly ridiculous to compare what Ben and Vick did.

for starters, we're talking about completely different kinds of dogs here...

:lol:

What if Ben electricuted the woman who came to fix his TV, and Vick had sex with his pit bulls? Who gets the longer suspension?

Slapstick
06-16-2012, 09:05 PM
The words in print suggest otherwise. You choose not to read them.

By "print" I can only guess that you mean your own posts....

You can infer whatever you want from what someone else writes, but that doesn't make it true...

Crash
06-16-2012, 09:40 PM
By "print" I can only guess that you mean your own posts....

You can infer whatever you want from what someone else writes, but that doesn't make it true...

Then this must be the only site you read.

Because Roethlisberger and his race, were constant throughout the process.

In fact, there are some in the media who laughingly suggest that Ben GOT OFF LIGHT from Goodell because of his race.

fordfixer
06-16-2012, 09:58 PM
Then this must be the only site you read.

Because Roethlisberger and his race, were constant throughout the process.

In fact, there are some in the media who laughingly suggest that Ben GOT OFF LIGHT from Goodell because of his race.
So you post on other boards also big deal.Provide a link or move on

Crash
06-16-2012, 09:59 PM
So you post on other boards also big deal.Provide a link or move on

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/21/2315002/roethlisbergers-suspension-and-race-what-if-he-looked-like-pacman/in/1199026

You lose.

fordfixer
06-16-2012, 10:08 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/21/2315002/roethlisbergers-suspension-and-race-what-if-he-looked-like-pacman/in/1199026

You lose.
A link to a sports blog (weak) . How about a real news outlet

Crash
06-16-2012, 10:10 PM
So you post on other boards also big deal.Provide a link or move on


If Roethlisberger leaves the meeting without a suspension in the four-game range, it’s going to lead to plenty of well-deserved questions of the Commissioner and whether he has a bias towards African-American players.

With the billions of dollars in revenue the NFL makes, and the wide range of fans of all demographics that watch the sport, it’s important for Goodell to show consistency with his punishments.

http://thegrio.com/2010/04/13/nfl-needs-to-sack-roethlisberger-double-strandard/ (http://thegrio.com/2010/04/13/nfl-needs-to-sack-roethlisberger-double-strandard/)



What's ironic about the second paragraph is since Ben's wrongful suspension, Goodell hasn't show any consistency at all in his punishments. Perrish Cox? Nope. Brandon Underwood? Nope. Eric Foster? Nope.

But where's the same media bitching about that?

Crash
06-16-2012, 10:13 PM
A link to a sports blog (weak) . How about a real news outlet

http://fourthandgoalunites.com/2010/03/27/goodells-slippery-roethlisberger-slope/

I'll await you're next excuse.

Crash
06-16-2012, 10:16 PM
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is scheduled to meet with Roethlisberger this week. There is tremendous pressure on Goodell -- some of it racial pressure -- to take a tough position with Roethlisberger.


The commissioner has earned something of a reputation for being a hanging judge in his disciplinary dealings with black players such as Michael Vick and Adam "Pac-Man" Jones. He has to know how it would look if he turns soft with a star, two-time Super Bowl-winning, white quarterback, who, clearly, has violated the league's Personal Conduct Policy.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/ron-cook/steelers-or-nfl-must-suspend-roethlisberger-242163/?print=1 (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/ron-cook/steelers-or-nfl-must-suspend-roethlisberger-242163/?print=1)

Anything else Ford? No? Now shut it.

Crash
06-16-2012, 10:34 PM
William C. Rhoden will racial overtones all over this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/sports/football/14rhoden.html

_________________________


Two bits of inaccuracy here:

1. The Giants, not Roger Goodell suspended Plaxico.

2. Ben said after his accident, that if he rode, it would be WITH a helmet on.

fordfixer
06-16-2012, 11:03 PM
I still have'nt seen where anyone in the media"Laughingly suggest that Ben GOT OFF LIGHT from Goodell because of his race.

hawaiiansteel
06-16-2012, 11:40 PM
I still have'nt seen where anyone in the media"Laughingly suggest that Ben GOT OFF LIGHT from Goodell because of his race.


anybody who would suggest that Ben got off light because of his race for something in which no criminal charges were even brought would have no credibility anyway.

Slapstick
06-17-2012, 12:34 PM
I guess I just expected more than a few blogs and a couple of OP/ED pieces...

I was looking for a 60 Minutes or Dateline NBC story about how Ben is escaping punishment because he's white...

Not, "Goodell suspended Pac Man Jones without a conviction, so he should suspend Ben, too...", which is kind of a legitimate point...

Crash
06-18-2012, 10:34 AM
No no no.....Pac Man was suspended after NUMEROUS ARRESTS, including a guilty plea.

And speaking of Pac Man, this story is being published all over the world in various news outlets.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8058700/jury-orders-adam-pacman-jones-pay-11-million-shooting-victims

If it's not about race, and it's about publicity tarnishing the shield, I await Pac Man's next suspension by Adolph Goodell.

You can't hide behind nobody knowing who the player is on this one.

You guys are all out of excuses.

And if he's not? You guys have no choice, than to admit I'm right.

grotonsteel
06-18-2012, 10:48 AM
Comparing PacMan and Ben is ridiculous. Ben didn't make it rain.

Oh BTW PacMan has to pay 11 million $$ to the Strip Club Manager and his wife for screwing their life for good.

Slapstick
06-18-2012, 01:19 PM
When Pac Man was suspended, there was no conviction...

Crash, when you are right, I'll admit it...

I have agreed with you before on some things and will do so again...

But, on this, you're off base...

flippy
06-18-2012, 02:16 PM
When Pac Man was suspended, there was no conviction...

Crash, when you are right, I'll admit it...

I have agreed with you before on some things and will do so again...

But, on this, you're off base...

You have to agree all of the time or none of the time. There is only black and white. No gray. :)

Slapstick
06-18-2012, 02:45 PM
Also, why would Pac Man be suspended again for the same infraction?

He was suspended for an entire year for the strip-club thing before any criminal charges were brought in that case...

feltdizz
06-18-2012, 02:53 PM
Who gives a dump about PacMan or Ben's suspension from 2 years ago. It has nothing to do with the upcoming season....

I bet Crash has tons of concussions from looking back over his should these last 2 years.

RuthlessBurgher
06-18-2012, 03:33 PM
You have to agree all of the time or none of the time. There is only black and white. No gray. :)

Hines Ward was neither black nor white, and Crash didn't like him...hmmm....

hawaiiansteel
06-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Hines Ward was neither black nor white, and Crash didn't like him...hmmm....

actually Hines is half-black but race doesn't have anything to do with why Crash doesn't like Hines. neither is the fact that Hines is divorced or reputedly hangs out with drug dealers, those are just excuses that justify why he doesn't like Hines and why we shouldn't either.

the real reason is because Hines spoke ill of the demi-God Ben Roethlisberger, questioning why Ben didn't play hurt.

Crash
06-18-2012, 04:37 PM
When Pac Man was suspended, there was no conviction

He was charged with various crimes. According to the NFL, that makes him subject to PCP suspension per Greg Aiello, Roger Goodell's right hand man.

If you guys are going to debate this, pay attention to what the NFL tells you.

Crash
06-18-2012, 04:39 PM
Also, why would Pac Man be suspended again for the same infraction?

Ben was suspended despite not being eligible for suspension per the NFL's own guidelines.

You are toast on this, and you know it.

Crash
06-18-2012, 04:46 PM
actually Hines is half-black but race doesn't have anything to do with why Crash doesn't like Hines. neither is the fact that Hines is divorced or reputedly hangs out with drug dealers, those are just excuses that justify why he doesn't like Hines and why we shouldn't either.

the real reason is because Hines spoke ill of the demi-God Ben Roethlisberger, questioning why Ben didn't play hurt.

I don't like Hines because he's a hypocrite. But because he kisses the media's ass, he gets away with it.

And this started loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before the 2009 game in Baltimore.

hawaiiansteel
06-18-2012, 05:13 PM
I don't like Hines because he's a hypocrite. But because he kisses the media's ass, he gets away with it.

And this started loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before the 2009 game in Baltimore.


I have always liked and respected Hines for his hard-hitting style of play that epitomizes the way the Steelers play football.

what was it specifically about Hines that first made you not like him?

Crash
06-18-2012, 05:14 PM
Now the NFL refuses to give the Saints players the alleged evidence they have on them.

This should end Goodell's reign. Now people are beginning to see what I've known all along, he's in way over his head.

Crash
06-18-2012, 05:15 PM
I have always liked and respected Hines for his hard-hitting style of play that epitomizes the way the Steelers play football.

what was it specifically about Hines that first made you not like him?

His constant, combative style against the very team that employed him. Teammates, head coaches, GMs, QBs. They've all felt the wrath of #86.

Slapstick
06-18-2012, 07:00 PM
Ben was suspended despite not being eligible for suspension per the NFL's own guidelines.

You are toast on this, and you know it.

How am I toast on this?

Because a lawyer decided there was some wiggle room in his "guidelines" and suspended a worse media black eye than Pac Man with no charges filed?

Incidentally, Pac Man was also suspended before charges were brought for the strip club debacle...

You can race-bait all you want, but it doesn't make you right...

Slapstick
06-18-2012, 07:04 PM
Now the NFL refuses to give the Saints players the alleged evidence they have on them.

This should end Goodell's reign. Now people are beginning to see what I've known all along, he's in way over his head.

Didn't Payton get nailed with an e-mail that admitted to putting $5,000 on Aaron Rodgers?

Didn't Williams admit to the bounty program and apologize?

Didn't Payton and Loomis also apologize?

The coaches came clean...

Crash
06-18-2012, 08:16 PM
How am I toast on this?

Because a lawyer decided there was some wiggle room in his "guidelines" and suspended a worse media black eye than Pac Man with no charges filed?

Incidentally, Pac Man was also suspended before charges were brought for the strip club debacle...

You can race-bait all you want, but it doesn't make you right...

How many times was Pac Man arrested before he was suspended Slap?

How many times was Ben arrested before he was suspended Slap?

There's all the proof I need. Goodell made up his own rules and ignored his own policy and suspended Ben Roethlisberger.

IMO, it's because he's a white franchise QB who black media and black players dared Goodell to suspend.

Slapstick
06-18-2012, 08:21 PM
How many times was Pac Man arrested before he was suspended Slap?

How many times was Ben arrested before he was suspended Slap?

There's all the proof I need. Goodell made up his own rules and ignored his own policy and suspended Ben Roethlisberger.

IMO, it's because he's a white franchise QB who black media and black players dared Goodell to suspend.

How many times was Ben accused before he was suspended?

How many times did we read about it/see it in the media?

We'll just have to agree to disagree...

hawaiiansteel
06-19-2012, 01:21 AM
It's work and then play for Big Ben Roethlisberger at his youth camp at Seneca Valley High School

June 19, 2012
By Stephen J. Nesbitt / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://c4241337.r37.cf2.rackcdn.com/06-19-29_roethlisberger-1_420.jpg

A mighty challenge awaited Ben Roethlisberger when he stepped onto the Seneca Valley High School football field Monday for his fourth annual camp.

There were 500 youths in front of him all expecting the same thing: To catch a pass from the Steelers quarterback.

Roethlisberger laughed when he heard the plan, but he obliged.

"I did it last year just because I thought it would be fun," Roethlisberger explained. "I got told when I got here that the kids were looking forward to it, so I've got to do it again.

"I need to go get loose."

The fatigue will wear off quickly.

When the two-day camp wraps up today, Roethlisberger will head to the airport to embark on a 10-day golfing trip to Ireland and Scotland. The trip was a gift from his wife, Ashley, for his 30th birthday.

The first item on the itinerary is breakfast at the home of Steelers owner Dan Rooney, the U.S. Ambassador to Ireland, in Dublin.

Then, Roethlisberger and a couple golfing buddies will hit the links for 12 rounds in 10 days -- three days in Ireland and a week in Scotland. Roethlisberger, a 3 handicap, is a member at The Club in Nevillewood, Treesdale Golf & Country Club and New Castle Country Club. But in Europe he'll be playing in what he called the "Mecca of golf" -- places such as Kildare Hotel & Golf Club in Ireland (K Club) and the Old Course at St. Andrews in Scotland.

"It's going to be neat," Roethlisberger said. "I've never been to Ireland or Scotland, so to go over there and see where golf kind of started is going to be awesome."

The outing might be something of a last hurrah for Roethlisberger, who will soon be taking up daddy duties. He and Ashley announced last week that they are expecting a baby boy by the end of the year.

Big Ben remains tight-lipped about when to expect he will become Big Daddy, but he admitted that he's relishing the kids camp even more now that he has his own child on the way.

"I can't wait," Roethlisberger said. "It'll be a little while til my son's out here doing this, but it puts a perspective on these kids.

"Maybe these guys get me prepared for [fatherhood], because it takes a lot of patience and yet it's fun."

Roethlisberger was joined by dozens of coaches and ProCamps staffers to run the fourth edition of the Ben Roethlisberger Football Camp, geared toward boys and girls ages 7 to 14.

Steelers defensive end Brett Keisel also helped out, much to the delight of the youngsters. Keisel spent his time at Seneca Valley rushing the quarterback just as he does at Heinz Field, although these quarterbacks barely topped four feet in height.

The youths were divided into three groups -- Trojans, RedHawks and Steelers -- to represent Roethlisberger's high school, college and professional teams.

The coaches rotated groups through various offensive drills, starting with passing and route-running, while Roethlisberger dealt with more pressing matters -- like throwing 500 passes.

"ProCamps does such an awesome job," Roethlisberger said. "They make life easy. They make it to the point that I wouldn't have to be here, I wouldn't have to do anything. I [could] just put my name on it and they could run it and be great.

"But I want to be here for every minute of it because I believe in what we do and I believe in the kids."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/its-work-and-then-play-for-big-ben-roethlisberger-at-his-youth-camp-at-seneca-valley-high-school-641012/

hawaiiansteel
06-19-2012, 02:29 AM
Ben Roethlisberger: 'I'm not going to change my game'

By Marc Sessler
June 15, 2012

You normally know what you're getting in Pittsburgh, but this year's Steelers squad comes gift-wrapped in mystery.

The intrigue stems from changes on offense, where quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is working with new offensive coordinator Todd Haley on a scheme previously described as a run-first attack. Team president Art Rooney II went so far to suggest Big Ben might "tweak" his play at quarterback.

Don't bank on it.

"I'm not going to change my game," Roethlisberger said, per a Friday CBSSports.com report. "Coach (Haley) can do what he wants to add protection and things like that, but I'm going to play the game the way I know how. It's worked OK for me so far."

After 80 regular-season wins and two Super Bowl titles, Roethlisberger has a point. So do the Steelers, however, as they're primarily concerned with the epic beating Big Ben took last season. His 40 sacks were second only to Alex Smith and Tarvaris Jackson, and he was never the same after suffering an ankle injury against the Cleveland Browns in December.

Pittsburgh wants its 30-something starter to play safer football, with less scampering through front sevens into the heart of the opposition. Haley's scheme caters to this, but here's the problem: Big Ben has played this way from the start. This is what got him here.

Tight end Heath Miller agrees, sort of:

"I don't think you ask him to change the way he plays, but obviously you want any quarterback on the football team to get hit as least amount of times as possible."

It's yet another wrinkle in the up-to-now awkward pairing of Roethlisberger and Haley. They keep telling us everything is going swimmingly, but something doesn't feel right.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829dc5a4/article/ben-roethlisberger-im-not-going-to-change-my-game?module=HP11_headline_stack

Crash
06-19-2012, 03:23 PM
How many times was Ben accused before he was suspended?

Irrelevant according to Greg Aiello. One must be charged to be subject to PCP suspension.

Except for the 6-5 whitey from Pittsburgh.

If Ben were black, he's not suspended by Goodell. Again, history proves it.

feltdizz
06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
Irrelevant according to Greg Aiello. One must be charged to be subject to PCP suspension.

Except for the 6-5 whitey from Pittsburgh.

If Ben were black, he's not suspended by Goodell. Again, history proves it.

yep, Goodell has a history of suspending white players... a loooooong history of it.

Crash
06-19-2012, 04:10 PM
yep, Goodell has a history of suspending white players... a loooooong history of it.

If a black player is accused of rape, and not charged? He won't be suspended by Goodell.

You guys just don't pay attention, the NFL's own words prove just how much Ben got screwed.

Sugar
06-19-2012, 04:46 PM
Nice little article by Greg Cosell on Ben's development: http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/06/19/cosell-talks-the-ever-improving-ben-roethlisberger/?module=HP11_content_stream

ikestops85
06-19-2012, 05:13 PM
Nice little article by Greg Cosell on Ben's development: http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/06/19/cosell-talks-the-ever-improving-ben-roethlisberger/?module=HP11_content_stream

That is probably the best breakdown of Ben's game that I have ever read. A really great read.

Sugar
06-19-2012, 05:38 PM
That is probably the best breakdown of Ben's game that I have ever read. A really great read.

I liked it too. He really broke it all down without going completely stat-crazy.

Slapstick
06-20-2012, 11:21 AM
If a black player is accused of rape, and not charged? He won't be suspended by Goodell.

You guys just don't pay attention, the NFL's own words prove just how much Ben got screwed.

Because nobody knows who those guys are...

Put it on the front page, like Pac Man or Bounty Gate, and watch the hammer fall..

Crash
06-20-2012, 03:55 PM
Because nobody knows who those guys are...

Put it on the front page, like Pac Man or Bounty Gate, and watch the hammer fall..

OK...well here's Wes WElker getting into a scuffle with police.

Let's see how many games he gets. I'm sure most fans know who he is.

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/wes_tackled_by_aspen_cops_WAY11Kal29MJOXSOXcwBTN?u tm_campaign=OutbrainA&utm_source=OutbrainArticlepages&obref=obinsite

Eich
06-20-2012, 04:04 PM
OK...well here's Wes WElker getting into a scuffle with police.

Let's see how many games he gets. I'm sure most fans know who he is.

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/wes_tackled_by_aspen_cops_WAY11Kal29MJOXSOXcwBTN?u tm_campaign=OutbrainA&utm_source=OutbrainArticlepages&obref=obinsite

I don't condone most of Goodell's idiotic punishments. But I'm also certain that Ben would not have been suspended if his only bad deed during his NFL career was getting into a scuffle with security. And although the article title says Welker was tackled by police, the article itself only says that he was restrained by security.

Crash
06-20-2012, 04:07 PM
I don't condone most of Goodell's idiotic punishments. But I'm also certain that Ben would not have been suspended if his only bad deed during his NFL career was getting into a scuffle with security. And although the article title says Welker was tackled by police, the article itself only says that he was restrained by security.

According to the NFL one can't be suspended until charged with a crime.

Ben was still suspended.

So Welker can join him if what the genius' here tell me is true that it's about who you are instead of what color Ben was when black media and players demanded Ben's head on a stick. Should be a slam dunk, no?

feltdizz
06-20-2012, 04:12 PM
so White Welker will be suspended... it's a racial fact.

feltdizz
06-20-2012, 04:18 PM
It's funny how Crash has links to all these violations... but that's pretty much the only way we hear about them. How about pointing out a player who made the national news cycle and had his name mentioned on CNN, FOXNews, MSNBC at the top of every hour.

Goodell answers to no one and makes decisions based on public perception...

..and for some reason Crash continues to ask WHY, WHY, WHYYYYYYYYY!!!!

Crash
06-20-2012, 05:01 PM
It's funny how Crash has links to all these violations... but that's pretty much the only way we hear about them. How about pointing out a player who made the national news cycle and had his name mentioned on CNN, FOXNews, MSNBC at the top of every hour.

You mean like Pac Man Jones?

How many arrests did he have before he was EVER suspended by Goodell?

Goodell didn't suspend Plax either. How many arrests has he had in his career? His gun situation was all over the news. Goodell did squat.

I rest my case.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-20-2012, 09:05 PM
Goodell is not even-handed when it comes to punishment. I don't see how there can be any dispute about that. But what he does is motivated more by money than it is by race. Ask James Harrison if he thinks being black caused Uncle Roger to be more lenient with him.

hawaiiansteel
06-21-2012, 02:23 AM
New Offense Requires Patience

WEDNESDAY, 20 JUNE 2012 WRITTEN BY DAN GIGLER

It sounds like the 2012 Steeler offense will be designed to emulate that of the 1976-1980 version of the Steelers: fullback, 2 tight ends and "balance" between running and passing.

The hiring of Todd Haley, combined with the draft selections was a clear indication of where management wants this team headed. The combination of no running game along with 50+ sacks given up a year was enough to tell management that a change in philosophy was required. One can argue that they could have handled the Bruce Arians decision more professionally, but the fact is the writing was on the wall.

In theory, the front office is making a sound business decision based on their investment. Big Ben will not survive many more years like the last two. Injuries aside, last year's team really didnt have the feel of a Super Bowl Champion.

Herein lies part of the problem.

Many Steeler fans would rebut and say that neither did the Giants, their quarterback got hot, and all of a sudden, the lousy defense became just good enough to win. Two things that easily could have happened to the Steelers. They didnt happen, so change became eminent.

The Steelers want balance, yet fans would argue that we have a gunslinger for a quarterback whose idol is John Elway. Fans need to recall that Elway the gunslinger didnt win the Super Bowl until Terrel Davis gained 1800 yards in 1997.

While Ben already has 2 rings, the likelihood of a 3rd ring as a gunslinger was very remote as evaluated by Steelers front office. So now fans will have to be patient with new 2 tight end sets, and short passes to running backs out of the backfield.

Given the schedule early, a 1-2 start is not unlikely, calls for new offensive coordinator are almost guaranteed. Fans need to give Haley and front office a chance.

Ben must do the same.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/116840-guest-slog-new-offense-requires-patience

Crash
06-21-2012, 02:47 AM
New two tight end sets? Is this guy serious?

Who is this guy and how much of this team does he actually watch?


The Steelers want balance, yet fans would argue that we have a gunslinger for a quarterback whose idol is John Elway. Fans need to recall that Elway the gunslinger didnt win the Super Bowl until Terrel Davis gained 1800 yards in 1997.

This idiot needs to recall that John Elway played with three Pro Bowl running backs before he ever played with Terrell Davis, in fact, it was Dan Reeves' dinosaur like offense that hindered Elway more than anything.

Once Reeves was gone, they then hired Elway's hand picked cronies (including his own father in the front office), and he had the most productive years of his career during his final six seasons once Dan Reeves was shown the door.

feltdizz
06-21-2012, 07:31 AM
..and Elway won squat until he had an 1800 yard rusher... not sure why that continues to be ignored. He didn't pass his way to SB rings.

Oviedo
06-21-2012, 07:50 AM
New Offense Requires Patience

WEDNESDAY, 20 JUNE 2012 WRITTEN BY DAN GIGLER

It sounds like the 2012 Steeler offense will be designed to emulate that of the 1976-1980 version of the Steelers: fullback, 2 tight ends and "balance" between running and passing.

The hiring of Todd Haley, combined with the draft selections was a clear indication of where management wants this team headed. The combination of no running game along with 50+ sacks given up a year was enough to tell management that a change in philosophy was required. One can argue that they could have handled the Bruce Arians decision more professionally, but the fact is the writing was on the wall.

In theory, the front office is making a sound business decision based on their investment. Big Ben will not survive many more years like the last two. Injuries aside, last year's team really didnt have the feel of a Super Bowl Champion.

Herein lies part of the problem.

Many Steeler fans would rebut and say that neither did the Giants, their quarterback got hot, and all of a sudden, the lousy defense became just good enough to win. Two things that easily could have happened to the Steelers. They didnt happen, so change became eminent.

The Steelers want balance, yet fans would argue that we have a gunslinger for a quarterback whose idol is John Elway. Fans need to recall that Elway the gunslinger didnt win the Super Bowl until Terrel Davis gained 1800 yards in 1997.

While Ben already has 2 rings, the likelihood of a 3rd ring as a gunslinger was very remote as evaluated by Steelers front office. So now fans will have to be patient with new 2 tight end sets, and short passes to running backs out of the backfield.

Given the schedule early, a 1-2 start is not unlikely, calls for new offensive coordinator are almost guaranteed. Fans need to give Haley and front office a chance.

Ben must do the same.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/116840-guest-slog-new-offense-requires-patience

Steelers fans are going to call for a new OC after just a few games...really? How could that possibly ever happen
;)

Keyplay1
06-21-2012, 08:14 AM
Not sure about this but I thought the name Dan Gigler rang a bell. And yes, after I googled it I recalled seeing a number of his articles in the PG. Plus he does the Blog and Gold thing which I was not real familiar with but after seeing the tons of Steeler info past and present in the index when I get some time I will read some of the articles.

Anyway, I clicked the link and it started with this:

Ed Bouchette is on vacation, and he's asked his loyal 'Slog' readers to fill in during his absence. Today's entry comes from Houssam Aboukhater in New Hampshire, with a topic that is sure to generate some discussion in the shout box. Enjoy.
http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/images/stories/Ed_Bouchette/tomlin_ben.jpgIt sounds like the 2012 Steeler offense will be designed to emulate that of the 1976-1980 version of the Steelers: fullback, 2 tight ends and "balance" between running and passing. etc etc-----

This sounds to me like the articles ideas came from the fellow from New Hampshire. I'm not sure but after seeing some of Gigler's stuff I doubt if this "slog" was his work.

I just doubted that Gigler would be so bold in presuming all the thinking for the Steeler's front office.

ikestops85
06-21-2012, 10:55 AM
I don't recall the Steelers ever running a 2 tight end offense in the 70s unless it was short yardage. We always came out in a traditional set of halfback, fullback, tight end and 2 wide receivers.

Crash
06-21-2012, 02:15 PM
..and Elway won squat until he had an 1800 yard rusher... not sure why that continues to be ignored. He didn't pass his way to SB rings.

Look at his numbers in 1997. He threw 502 passes in 1997 (Ben threw 513 passes last season and fans think we pass too much) and set a CAREER HIGH in TD passes that season.

He also had 22 TD passes in 12 starts in 1998. This whole notion that all John Elway did in his later years was hand off is an out an out lie.

feltdizz
06-21-2012, 03:04 PM
Look at his numbers in 1997. He threw 502 passes in 1997 (Ben threw 513 passes last season and fans think we pass too much) and set a CAREER HIGH in TD passes that season.

He also had 22 TD passes in 12 starts in 1998. This whole notion that all John Elway did in his later years was hand off is an out an out lie.

It's an out and out lie because YOU made up the lie..

No one said all Elway did was hand off... most are saying he won 2 rings when he relied on the ground game and used the play action to throw for a career high in TD passes.

Most fans don't think we passed too much last year but most probably think we didn't run EFFECTIVELY enough the last few years.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-21-2012, 03:12 PM
Look at his numbers in 1997. He threw 502 passes in 1997 (Ben threw 513 passes last season and fans think we pass too much) and set a CAREER HIGH in TD passes that season.

He also had 22 TD passes in 12 starts in 1998. This whole notion that all John Elway did in his later years was hand off is an out an out lie.

1997 statistics--per NFL.com

Denver Broncos led the league in total offense

Passed 513 times (502 were Elway's)...Rushed 520 times

9th in the league in passing at 218 yards/game

4th in the league in rushing at 149 yards/game


1998 statistics--per NFL.com

Denver Broncos were third in total offense

Passed 491 times...Rushed 525 times

7th in the league in passing at 227 yards/game

2nd in the league in rushing at 154 yards/game

Crash
06-21-2012, 03:21 PM
Relied on the ground game? Um, no.

Elway relied on the ground game for 10 years under Dan Reeves, and his numbers suffered as a result of it.

Number of 20 TD pass seasons for Elway with Reeves: 1 in 10 seasons while playing with 3 different Pro Bowl RBs.

Number of 20 TD pass seasons for Elway without Reeves: 5 in 6 seasons (including his lone 4000 yard season WITHOUT Davis).

Three of his top five PASSING YARDAGE seasons also came in his final 6 years after Reeves left.

If anything, the 1993-1998 Broncos did exactly what the Steelers should do with Ben: Value his input and treat him as a luxury. Not as an afterthought.

Elway "loved" Reeves' offense so much that he was going to retire after 1992 if Reeves was retained.

feltdizz
06-21-2012, 04:17 PM
Who cares what Elway was "going to do"

he handed the ball off a ton and finally won some rings... Ben won a ring with his guy but our offense also looked like trash for the majority of these 5 years.

Crash
06-21-2012, 04:29 PM
Who cares what Elway was "going to do"

Apparently Pat Bowlen did, because he fired Reeves, signed numerous offensive free agents for two years, hired Elway's college QB coach, and they ran the same offense as Elway ran in college, and built their offense around him.

I live in Denver, I saw all of this first hand. You're "opinion" of that Broncos era is based on what you READ about it.

Crash
06-21-2012, 04:29 PM
Ben won a ring with his guy but our offense also looked like trash for the majority of these 5 years.

That simply isn't true. Not one bit.

Slapstick
06-21-2012, 05:12 PM
1997 statistics--per NFL.com

Denver Broncos led the league in total offense

Passed 513 times (502 were Elway's)...Rushed 520 times

9th in the league in passing at 218 yards/game

4th in the league in rushing at 149 yards/game


1998 statistics--per NFL.com

Denver Broncos were third in total offense

Passed 491 times...Rushed 525 times

7th in the league in passing at 227 yards/game

2nd in the league in rushing at 154 yards/game

1997 = 49.6% passing and 50.4% rushing

1998 = 48.3% passing and 51.7% rushing

Now that's balance!!

Given the offensive climate in the NFL today, the numbers would naturally lean towards passing %, most likely...but, it doesn't need to be a lopsided mix like last year in order to be successful...

hawaiiansteel
06-21-2012, 07:49 PM
http://thatschurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/steelerscamp7.jpghttp://thatschurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/steelerscamp21.jpg

hawaiiansteel
06-25-2012, 11:27 PM
NFL's 10 Biggest Jerks: Wideouts rule, but plenty of nasty to go around

By Mike Freeman | National NFL Insider
June 24, 2012

Nos. 10-9: (tie) San Francisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh and Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz: This is a tough one. Went to high school with Schwartz. Love him. Excellent coach, but his overreaction to a hard handshake from Harbaugh is a classic jerk reaction from a guy with a serious sideline temper.

Harbaugh is arrogant and just as sideline-angered as Schwartz, and his story about how the 49ers didn't really pursue Peyton Manning is actually hilarious. That's like saying you look at Rihanna and appreciate her eyes.

No. 8: Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler: If ever there was a jerk face prototype, it would be Cutler. Plays the part well with the best smirk in the NFL. His defenders say he's not so jerkish -- that his reactions are more because he despises the media. Yes, jerks are always misunderstood. I actually believe Cutler is maturing and one day will break free of his jerk chains, but for the moment, there's this NSFW moment.

No. 7: New York Jets defensive back Antonio Cromartie: Now has an amazing 12 kids: four from his wife and eight others with seven different women. Let that marinate and we will move on. (But first: that's a starting offense with a backup quarterback.)

There is a not-so-funny message here. It is impossible for a man to be a good father to his children in this kind of situation unless Cromartie has cloned himself. Thus the repercussions of jerkdom aren't just about football. They can be far more reaching.

No. 6: Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson: Benched in fourth quarter of a game last year. Benched for missing team meeting. Celebrates before scoring. More than once. Mad talented, crazy fast, super smart and a jerk.

This will be an interesting situation to watch. The Eagles just rewarded Jackson with a long-term deal. Historically, jerks don't handle this kind of thing well. Jerks are to fat contracts what a Kardashian is to ... oh, never mind. Jackson also is now the CEO of a rap label called Jaccpot Records. Nothing wrong with that. The problem, as always with a situation like this, is money. Someone has to fund this venture and it will probably be Jackson. Athletes funding their own business ventures never go wrong, right? And speaking of broke jerks.

No. 5: Chicago Bears wide receiver Brandon Marshall: You may notice this list is strong at wide receiver. Jerk has apparently spread to the position and locked on like a Borg tractor beam. In some ways Marshall exemplifies this phenomenon. Multiple accusations of woman beating but no convictions. One of the most talented wide receivers in football who was run out of Denver, run out of Miami and, if his jerk chromosomes kick in again (and they will), he'll be gone from Chicago in the near future, too.

No. 4: Special Brett Favre dispensation for Terrell Owens: T.O. checks in here, which is technically a violation of the jerk charter since Owens, you know, isn't currently in the NFL. He's been booted from the NFL, IFL, USFL, CFL, AFL, the AFL-CIO. UFOs and IPOs don't want him either. Owens is a lifetime jerk award winner, future Hall of Famer (should be at least) who was nasty, petulant and turbulent. His jerkiness is so pervasive that despite having some ability remaining no one will touch him. People fear catching jerk cooties. Love me some jerk.

No. 3: New Orleans Saints: A collective award. And who knows if they even did what they're accused of doing. If they're guilty, they belong in this spot. If they're innocent, then this is where Ndamukong Suh , leg stomper, dirty player, shall go. So ordered.

No. 2: Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger: Two sexual assault allegations (no convictions) but a four-game suspension for violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy. A well-earned jerk ranking.

No. 1: Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Michael Vick: This question was put to Twitter: does Vick deserve to be forgiven for what were atrocities against defenseless animals? Hundreds of responses came in and it was overwhelming there are still a great many people who haven't forgiven Vick for actions of his own making.

But that is the question: When is Vick allowed to move on? When is that threshold from criminal to forgiven criminal crossed? To some, it already has. But to many, like me, though it's clear that Vick has changed, the crime was so disgraceful, more time is still needed to make sure the change I've seen in him is not an act but permanent. There's almost a simple formula here to follow. The worse the crime, the more time it takes for the re-evaluation.

This is an arrogant approach for me and others, particularly since everyone judging Vick has made their own errors. But there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. For Vick, it will still take more time.

A few honorable mentions: James Harrison, Randy Moss, Donte Stallworth (pled guilty to DUI manslaughter), Ray Lewis, O.J. Simpson (eternal nominee, Mount Jerkmore candidate), and no jerk list would be complete without Pacman Jones.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19415365/nfls-10-biggest-jerks-wideouts-rule-but-plenty-of-nasty-to-go-around

Crash
06-26-2012, 02:40 AM
See how he writes "no convictions" as if Ben was charged, tried, and acquitted?

That's what I'm talking about. Some uninformed twat who knows NOTHING about either incident will assume Ben was arrested at some point and got off.

grotonsteel
06-26-2012, 11:19 AM
Give me my 120 sec back. What a stupid article. Maybe the biggest jerk of all is Mike Freeman the writer.

Are there any good universities for journalism or everyone is taught to be an attention monger.

RuthlessBurgher
06-26-2012, 12:51 PM
Maybe the biggest jerk of all is Mike Freeman the writer.

http://fabfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/funny-celebrity-pictures-jerk-store.jpg

papillon
06-26-2012, 12:54 PM
Give me my 120 sec back. What a stupid article. Maybe the biggest jerk of all is Mike Freeman the writer.

Are there any good universities for journalism or everyone is taught to be an attention monger.

:Beer Can that really pass as journalism? I am dumber for having spent the time reading it. I have to agree with Crash on this one, for a guy who may have made a couple poor decisions to still be crucified about sexual assault "charges" is pathetic. He can keep Ben on the list if he wants, but at least report what happened and what didn't happen properly.

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
06-27-2012, 02:57 PM
I think Ben is a very kind-hearted fellow...

Benspotting

TUESDAY, 26 JUNE 2012 WRITTEN BY DAN GIGLER

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/images/stories/Dan_Gigler/ben_scotland_2.jpg

With apologies to the 1990s Scottish cult literary/fillm classic, a dispatch from Pittsburgh ex-pat Linda Greenwood Hume, a North Allegheny alum living in St. Andrew's, Scotland, who engaged in some "Benspotting" on Tuesday ...

"My name is Linda Hume, and I came to St Andrews about 6 years ago in order to do postgraduate work at the university in medieval literature....

Growing up in Pittsburgh, I was automatically a Steelers fan. That being said, it was not until I came to live in Scotland that I really began to follow football. It connected me to my hometown and became something I could share with my father while I was away from home.

"I have been here since the Fall of 2005, and have watched the Steelers win two Super Bowls and lose another one, while on Scottish territory. For each one, I sat in a pub and waved my Terrible Towel and wrapped myself up in a Steelers banner ...

"When I heard a couple of months ago that there was a possibility that Big Ben would be in St Andrews, I determined I would get him to sign this banner for my father.

On Monday, June 25th, I got a Facebook message that a friend of mine from Kingsbarns Golf Course (I worked there for a couple of years) ... was caddying for a Pittsburgh Steeler ... I wrote to the manager of the Kingsbarns pro shop and asked him to get me an autograph from Big Ben for my father

I then got a message from my husband, telling me that according to the Old Course ballot sheet, Ben was teeing off on the Old Course on Tuesday, July 26th at 9:20 in the morning, with three other friends. I made sure I was waiting this morning with my banner and Steeler shirt!!!

I am not a big fan of getting autographs, but I will do anything for my father, including making a fool of myself. I went up to Ben and asked him for a signature and a picture. He was very gracious and kind. He signed my banner right away and waited patiently while I fiddled with my camera that refused to work and finally got out my iPhone.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/images/stories/Dan_Gigler/ben_tees_off.jpg

This poor man was accosted by a crazy Pittsburgh fan while on a private holiday and was nothing but smiles ... He was with three mates from Pittsburgh, and they too were quite chatty and interested in why I was in St Andrews. Honestly, the best part of the experience was that I got to meet people from home. There were two other people there who wanted autographs and photos and Ben was equally as friendly and accommodating with them.

I stuck around and watched them practice putting for a few minutes and then tee off on the first hole of the Old Course. When I left, I went to pick up the autograph my friend at Kingsbarns had managed to get for me for my father. Ben had addressed my father by name, signed it and added 'Go Steelers'. It was very kind.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/images/stories/Dan_Gigler/Steeler_banner.jpg

What I really want to emphasize, however, is how impressed I was with Ben. I have not been home for awhile, and do not hear much press about him. The only news we got over here was the disciplinary measures that were taken against him because of his past behaviour. As a result, I was not a big fan.

This experience has caused him to rise in my estimation. He was on a trip to a country where most people do not follow the NFL, and had no reason to think people would recognize him. He acted with graciousness, friendliness and humility. I was really touched.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/...81-benspotting (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/34581-benspotting)

phillyesq
06-27-2012, 03:05 PM
Excellent reference!!

RuthlessBurgher
06-27-2012, 03:36 PM
http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/images/stories/Dan_Gigler/ben_scotland_2.jpg

I was really touched.

She was really touched??? Oh no!!! Where is Ben's right hand?!?!?! ;)