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View Full Version : WR Sanders Confirms to Steelers Gab The Offense is Nearly All Brand New



Sugar
05-10-2012, 04:30 PM
I saw this on the front page here.

http://www.steelersgab.com/2012/05/10/wr-sanders-confirms-to-steelers-gab-the-offense-is-nearly-all-brand-new/

What does everyone think when Sanders is saying that 95% of the offense will be new?

Oviedo
05-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Innovation is not bad. It seems to be getting these guys focused and their heads in the playbook real early. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe there is some method in Haley's madness.

I'm not worried at all.

ikestops85
05-10-2012, 05:57 PM
Innovation is not bad. It seems to be getting these guys focused and their heads in the playbook real early. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe there is some method in Haley's madness.

I'm not worried at all.

Why is changing the language considered innovation? I've never understood why a coach comes in and changes the language and 20 some people have to learn it instead of him adapting to the language that the 20 some people already know. He can still draw up his own plays but he has to call them in a way the players understand. That's just pure arrogance to me.

I guess I need to start the first "Fire Haley" thread. :lol:

steelblood
05-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Maybe now Ben will stop using the "black 20, bla-" snap count. they used that extensively for over 2 years. it was pretty easy to jump after a while.

Sugar
05-10-2012, 08:29 PM
I guess I need to start the first "Fire Haley" thread. :lol:

Don't worry, those threads will start soon enough. I'm guessing that after the first game might be too soon, but around here you never know.

Snatch98
05-10-2012, 08:36 PM
What I didn't like in that article was the line about the offense being good. We have all the tools but weren't innovative on the ground. We weren't good in the red zone. I'm sure a lot of us could find other things to complain about offensively. You can't be a good offense and 21st in the NFL so personally I have zero issue with Haley coming in and changing the offense. They have plenty of time to absorb it. I certainly wouldn't want Haley running a hybrid with old Arians stuff AND our players are PROFESSIONAL athletes. They shouldn't have a problem taking in the changes. I'm glad he's blowing it up. It also puts Haley more in control and Ben is going to have to fall in line.

Crash
05-10-2012, 09:08 PM
Yeah let's teach Ben a lesson. Because Haley's done so much in his career as a coach.

Remember boys and girls, Charlie Weis isn't on our staff. Matt Cassell can vouch for what good he did for him.

Snatch98
05-10-2012, 09:17 PM
Yeah let's teach Ben a lesson. Because Haley's done so much in his career as a coach.

Remember boys and girls, Charlie Weis isn't on our staff. Matt Cassell can vouch for what good he did for him.

Haley had quite a bit of success as a offensive coordinator and what I meant was that Ben was going to have to rid himself of the Arians offense. There is another article on the front page right now indicating it's a non issue. However no matter how you shake it Ben had too much control/comfort with Arians.

Sugar
05-10-2012, 09:31 PM
Haley had quite a bit of success as a offensive coordinator and what I meant was that Ben was going to have to rid himself of the Arians offense. There is another article on the front page right now indicating it's a non issue. However no matter how you shake it Ben had too much control/comfort with Arians.

I'm trying to see how our franchise QB could have too much control/comfort with an offensive scheme. We'll see if it bears out or not, but IMO the offense would be better this year simply because of the upgrades that were made in the draft. Add to that when you have the most injured line in the league, you're O is just gonna suffer- especially in the red zone.

Crash
05-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Haley had quite a bit of success as a offensive coordinator and what I meant was that Ben was going to have to rid himself of the Arians offense. There is another article on the front page right now indicating it's a non issue. However no matter how you shake it Ben had too much control/comfort with Arians.

Control my ass. Do you HONESTLY think Ben HIMSELF preferred 2-3 TE sets over the three wide? You are nuts.

Arians treating Ben like a human being isn't a bad thing. Comfort? You mean like when Dan Reeves was fired and the Broncos made Elway's life easier?

Pull up Elway's numbers in his first 10 seasons with Reeves.

Then pull up his last 6 seasons after Reeves was fired.

And before you say it? Elway had three different Pro Bowl RBs BEFORE he ever played with Terrell Davis.

Kurt Warner when healthy, was winning Super Bowls long before the former golf coach ever got a job as an OC.

focosteeler
05-10-2012, 10:03 PM
Why is changing the language considered innovation? I've never understood why a coach comes in and changes the language and 20 some people have to learn it instead of him adapting to the language that the 20 some people already know. He can still draw up his own plays but he has to call them in a way the players understand. That's just pure arrogance to me.

I guess I need to start the first "Fire Haley" thread. :lol:


I see it as Haley being able to say 'this is my offense, it is in no way related to the craap you guys ran last year' everything down to the smallest term is changed so no one confuses anything. Who knows maybe his way is simpler and easier for everyone to understand. Im not making my judgments on Haley and the offense until week 8..... At least i'll try :D

Deesee
05-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Hey, I'm new here! I've been lurking for a while but wanted to help on this one. See this (http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/32414-tomin-arians-firing-his-decision) article.

It seems like Tomlin thought it was time for a change, with specifically the language, because of divisional opponents that may be "comfortable" with how the Steelers were running/calling the plays. Further, it seems like Haley's MO is doing what works, and working to team strengths. I haven't seen where he has said any differently. I think all this stuff about him putting his stamp on the offense and teaching Ben a lesson or reeling Ben in, has mostly been media generated. I also think this why we're seeing a lot about different language on offense but also hearing that Haley wants to utilize no-huddle or our passing attack.

- Just my thoughts.

Crash
05-11-2012, 12:11 AM
The media didn't say Ben needed to tweak his game, GM/Coach/Owner Art II did.

fordfixer
05-11-2012, 01:23 AM
Hey, I'm new here! I've been lurking for a while but wanted to help on this one. See this (http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/32414-tomin-arians-firing-his-decision) article.

It seems like Tomlin thought it was time for a change, with specifically the language, because of divisional opponents that may be "comfortable" with how the Steelers were running/calling the plays. Further, it seems like Haley's MO is doing what works, and working to team strengths. I haven't seen where he has said any differently. I think all this stuff about him putting his stamp on the offense and teaching Ben a lesson or reeling Ben in, has mostly been media generated. I also think this why we're seeing a lot about different language on offense but also hearing that Haley wants to utilize no-huddle or our passing attack.

- Just my thoughts.

Welcome to the Planet Deesee:tt1:tt1:tt1

Snatch98
05-11-2012, 03:18 AM
Let me make my position more clear. I don't think Ben needs a "lesson" but I do think that Arians held him back. He clearly didn't want Arians forced out of town and I 100% believe that with the addition of the two lineman and Haley, Ben is going to enter another level of his game. It's also precisely why I have zero issue with Haley "blowing it up" so to speak. It's going to challenge the players, the offense will be his and the whole team can "buy in" to the new offense. I love the way Ben plays but once again thought Arians was holding him back. I guess we'll find out soon enough because Ben is going to have a vastly improved offensive line and a offensive coordinator that has proven he's going to pound what works.

Crash
05-11-2012, 03:29 AM
Arians did what he was told in 2010 and 2011.

In 2009 Ben threw 26 TD passes in 15 games, Hines and Holmes had 1000 each, Mendy had 1200 and Heath Miller had a career year.

But because no one wanted to admit that LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks as bad as a Ho in the Hill District, Art wanted more commitment to the running game.

And the offense has been a complete erratic mess [especially in the red zone] since.

Only in freaking Pittsburgh can a defense (with a TON of high priced talent) blow 2009 4th quarter leads at an alarming rate, then get torched in two straight playoff games (one by the worst passer in the ^%&* league) , and the OFFENSE is the unit that gets blamed for it.

DBR96A
05-11-2012, 06:42 AM
Todd Haley is a proven commodity as an offensive coordinator, and it's telling that he took virtually the entire Bruce Arians playbook and threw it in the trash.

Flasteel
05-11-2012, 06:43 AM
Arians did what he was told in 2010 and 2011.

In 2009 Ben threw 26 TD passes in 15 games, Hines and Holmes had 1000 each, Mendy had 1200 and Heath Miller had a career year.

But because no one wanted to admit that LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks as bad as a Ho in the Hill District, Art wanted more commitment to the running game.

And the offense has been a complete erratic mess [especially in the red zone] since.

Only in freaking Pittsburgh can a defense (with a TON of high priced talent) blow 2009 4th quarter leads at an alarming rate, then get torched in two straight playoff games (one by the worst passer in the ^%&* league) , and the OFFENSE is the unit that gets blamed for it.

Please. I'm not going to argue about the 4th quarter collapses, but the offense has had problems since Arians took over in 2007. You can trot out all of the shiny individual stats you want, but the play-calling and adjustments...especially when it came to countering the opposing pass rush have been evident for a long time. Don't obsfucate the problems with Arians by pointing to the issues on defense.

Oviedo
05-11-2012, 07:52 AM
Arians did what he was told in 2010 and 2011.

In 2009 Ben threw 26 TD passes in 15 games, Hines and Holmes had 1000 each, Mendy had 1200 and Heath Miller had a career year.

But because no one wanted to admit that LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks as bad as a Ho in the Hill District, Art wanted more commitment to the running game.

And the offense has been a complete erratic mess [especially in the red zone] since.

Only in freaking Pittsburgh can a defense (with a TON of high priced talent) blow 2009 4th quarter leads at an alarming rate, then get torched in two straight playoff games (one by the worst passer in the ^%&* league) , and the OFFENSE is the unit that gets blamed for it.

It's in the DNA. Defense can do no wrong. There will be more blame on Haley this season for changing the playbook and making all these players learn something new than LeBeau throwing out the same old template defense and failing to make in game adjustments.

steelnavy
05-11-2012, 08:46 AM
Arians did what he was told in 2010 and 2011.

In 2009 Ben threw 26 TD passes in 15 games, Hines and Holmes had 1000 each, Mendy had 1200 and Heath Miller had a career year.

But because no one wanted to admit that LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks as bad as a Ho in the Hill District, Art wanted more commitment to the running game.

And the offense has been a complete erratic mess [especially in the red zone] since.

Only in freaking Pittsburgh can a defense (with a TON of high priced talent) blow 2009 4th quarter leads at an alarming rate, then get torched in two straight playoff games (one by the worst passer in the ^%&* league) , and the OFFENSE is the unit that gets blamed for it.

I find it quite ironic that you will blame those losses soley on the D. So its ok that the offense fails to score points in the 4th QTR but gawd forbid if the defense slips up at the same time... Why did our offense get so anemic near the end of games? Because Arians is predictable and doesn't have the brain power to adjust at halftime. Good riddance!

Slapstick
05-11-2012, 08:58 AM
But because no one wanted to admit that LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme sucks as bad as a Ho in the Hill District, Art wanted more commitment to the running game.


Arians' 4th quarter scheme sucked just as badly...

The difference is that LeBeau did something about it...

Arians never did...

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
05-11-2012, 10:18 AM
This is a non-story. As fans it might be fun to get involved in every detail, but the fact is that Haley was hired to guide us to a certain place. We just need to worry if he gets there, not question the path that he takes.

Oviedo
05-11-2012, 10:48 AM
Arians' 4th quarter scheme sucked just as badly...

The difference is that LeBeau did something about it...

Arians never did...

What did LeBeau ever do about it? Nothing has changed . Nothing changed going into the OT of the Denver game. Same scheme that Tebow had been picking apart.

Oviedo
05-11-2012, 10:49 AM
I find it quite ironic that you will blame those losses soley on the D. So its ok that the offense fails to score points in the 4th QTR but gawd forbid if the defense slips up at the same time... Why did our offense get so anemic near the end of games? Because Arians is predictable and doesn't have the brain power to adjust at halftime. Good riddance!

I said all last season. We needed to replace two coordinators. Good start with Arians. One down and one to go.

Sugar
05-11-2012, 11:01 AM
This is a non-story. As fans it might be fun to get involved in every detail, but the fact is that Haley was hired to guide us to a certain place. We just need to worry if he gets there, not question the path that he takes.

That is closer to my thinking as well. I posted the story because change challenges people. That can be a good thing or a bad thing- even that is on a sliding scale. I will be curious to see how the players respond not only to the playbook, but the style change in leadership.

My hope is that Haley is out of here in a year because the Steelers Offense is so good that he is the top pick for Head Coach openings next February.

Crash
05-11-2012, 11:13 AM
Arians' 4th quarter scheme sucked just as badly...

The difference is that LeBeau did something about it...

Arians never did...

So scoring TD's in the 4th quarter only to see the defense go right back on the field and give points right back somehow meant the offense sucked too?

If you say so.

What did LeBeau do exactly? They are still giving up 4th quarter leads.

ikestops85
05-11-2012, 11:32 AM
So scoring TD's in the 4th quarter only to see the defense go right back on the field and give points right back somehow meant the offense sucked too?

If you say so.

What did LeBeau do exactly? They are still giving up 4th quarter leads.

Sorry Crash but there are 4 quarters in a game. The steelers defense led the league by giving up 14.1 points per game. What did the offense do consistently? They struggled against bad teams. Remember the Colts game ... how about both Stains games? We can even go back to the SB in 2010 and claim if the offense wouldn't have turned the ball over so many times we would have won. It's easy to cherry pick games ... or even parts of games.

I have to laugh at those attacking LeBeau's defense against Denver. You are the same people who bellyached about us constantly sitting back in a soft zone and let the QB pick us apart with short passes. So LeBeau "adjusts", just like he did in the New England game, and played press/man coverage like you wanted him to and you still complain.

I've asked this of you LeBeau haters before. Name me all the teams that have played better overall defense the last 5-10 years than the Steelers. I never seem to get an answer.

Now back to the topic at hand. I love that Haley is willing to change the offense to suit the talents of the team. I think all coaches should operate that way. I still don't see a reason to change the play calling language itself. To me that is a distraction to the players and not of any benefit. The language is just how you call the plays ... not what plays you call.

steelz09
05-11-2012, 11:34 AM
LeBeau's defense has always been a bend but don't break system. Especially when we have the lead, Lebeau goes to the "prevent you from winning defense".

A couple things bother me about this defense:

1) Our D line was getting no push at all. To get pressure, we had to send the house.
2) Lack of playmakers especially in the secondary. Polamalu is the one guy. Harrison has his days... Woodley has his moments.

Djfan
05-11-2012, 11:43 AM
I still don't see a reason to change the play calling language itself. To me that is a distraction to the players and not of any benefit. The language is just how you call the plays ... not what plays you call.

I understood it to mean that the other AFCN teams were learning our verbage too well.

Crash
05-11-2012, 11:50 AM
Sorry Crash but there are 4 quarters in a game.

Very good. You should tell Dick LeBeau that.

Because his insistence to change from what has worked in the games first 45 minutes during the last 15? Kills this team.

Crash
05-11-2012, 11:53 AM
Now back to the topic at hand. I love that Haley is willing to change the offense to suit the talents of the team. I think all coaches should operate that way.

Arians wasn't allowed to.

pfelix73
05-11-2012, 11:54 AM
Maybe now Ben will stop using the "black 20, bla-" snap count. they used that extensively for over 2 years. it was pretty easy to jump after a while.

Those are just audibles that may or may not mean anything. Might mean one thing in a quarter and/or something else or totally meaningless in another.

Slapstick
05-11-2012, 12:32 PM
In 2011, the Steelers 4th quarter offense averaged 4.8 points per game...less than a TD...less than two FGs...

You can hate on LeBeau all you want, but that 4th quarter offensive production, good for 26th in the NFL, is deplorable...

LeBeau had nothing to do with that...the Steelers needed to take action and they did...

Slapstick
05-11-2012, 12:35 PM
Very good. You should tell Dick LeBeau that.

Because his insistence to change from what has worked in the games first 45 minutes during the last 15? Kills this team.

At least LeBeau waited until the 4th quarter...Arians insisted on changing from what worked after the opening drive...

Crash
05-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Oh for Christ sake. Do you not WATCH this team Slap?

2009 was a joke. Raiders, at Bengals, at Ravens, at Chiefs.

They win one of those games, they make the playoffs. In three of those games, the offense took the lead by scoring a TD in the 4th only to see the defense give it right back.

Even in the Super Bowl against Green Bay. Wallace catches a TD, fans go crazy, 3 point game, 3rd and 10, and what happened?

Our usual rush 4 drop 7 in coverage, and give up the 1st down anyway. Which chewed clock and then turned a 3 point game into a 6 point one.

Slapstick
05-11-2012, 03:07 PM
Oh for Christ sake. Do you not WATCH this team Slap?

2009 was a joke. Raiders, at Bengals, at Ravens, at Chiefs.

They win one of those games, they make the playoffs. In three of those games, the offense took the lead by scoring a TD in the 4th only to see the defense give it right back.

Even in the Super Bowl against Green Bay. Wallace catches a TD, fans go crazy, 3 point game, 3rd and 10, and what happened?

Our usual rush 4 drop 7 in coverage, and give up the 1st down anyway. Which chewed clock and then turned a 3 point game into a 6 point one.

Of course I watch the games...and, yes, 2009 was an epic defensive fail. I do not disagree. But, please note that you are still fixated on 2009 and having to cherry pick games afterward to help support your point.

I am referring to the 2011 season where the offense scored less than 5 points per game in the 4th quarter. It was not the defense having consistent breakdowns in the 4th quarter in 2011. It was the offense.

Neither unit is perfect. But, in 2011, the offense was the far greater letdown.

Crash
05-11-2012, 03:31 PM
It was not the defense having consistent breakdowns in the 4th quarter in 2011

They didn't? Joe Flacco 90 yards. Tim Tebow. Curtis Painter went 80 yards after Troy scored a TD. The Steelers tie the game in Houston, the defense gives it right back.

The 4th quarter defense stinks. The scheme needs changed.

DBR96A
05-11-2012, 03:48 PM
I have to laugh at those attacking LeBeau's defense against Denver. You are the same people who bellyached about us constantly sitting back in a soft zone and let the QB pick us apart with short passes. So LeBeau "adjusts", just like he did in the New England game, and played press/man coverage like you wanted him to and you still complain.

Dick LeBeau did **** up that game. You play more man and press coverage against the elite passing offenses, and mostly zone coverage against everybody else. Zone coverage would have required Tim Tebow to complete 10 passes to score one TD.

With that said, the writing on the wall for Bruce Arians was the first 20 minutes of that game, during which the offense controlled the ball and dominated statistically, but could only manage six points. That simply illustrated how inefficient the system was.

Discipline of Steel
05-11-2012, 06:11 PM
The anti-LeBeau logic is flawed. The goal is to have more points than the opponent at the end of the game. If you are the number one scoring defense in the league, you cant do any better. That is really all that needs to be said.

Crash
05-11-2012, 06:30 PM
When the Steelers offense holds the ball for 40 minutes? Why should the defense get credit then?

That's why I look at WHEN they give up points.

Give back points has been a thorn in this teams side for YEARS.

NorthCoast
05-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Ben is a sandlot QB. We rarely see him play an entire game of read-and-release. I just dont see him changing his style. Different plays may be called but he will always be looking for the big one downfield. It's just the way he plays. The big plus is some new talent on the OL might actually be a huge benefit for his style of play.

DBR96A
05-12-2012, 06:10 PM
Ben is a sandlot QB. We rarely see him play an entire game of read-and-release.

The fact that he's done it before is proof that he can do it, which is contrary to what people who don't like him say.