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Jooser
05-02-2012, 01:05 PM
to the Saints' players suspensions via Facebook:

Woodley:
Vilma suspended a whole yr FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL???? cmon man!!!!!

Harrison:
Ridiculous, and nobody really sees why the punishments have been so severe over the past 3 4years! Lawsuits and 18 games???

Well, there's little doubt they hate the decision. Thoughts?

hawaiiansteel
05-02-2012, 02:41 PM
of course Vilma getting suspended for a year is too harsh and excessive.

but this is not just about the bounty program, this is Roger Goodell and the NFL trying to protect themselves from future lawsuits.

squidkid
05-02-2012, 02:58 PM
all 22- 27 players that were involved in this should have been suspended for at least 1 year. the main players longer. any nfl player that doesnt see this is an idiot.

steelblood
05-02-2012, 03:01 PM
To me, it is a fine line between trying to knock someone out of the game and trying to injure someone in a way that could cause them long term suffering (loss of wages, reduced quality of life). To judge these folks is slippery business indeed.

One can easily argue that trying to knock someone out of a game is dirty. But, intimidating hits are usually part of a winning formula and have long been the norm in the NFL. To take them away from the game is to change it forever. But, it seems, that is where we are heading.

Eich
05-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Harrison should be happy that someone finally got punished more severly than him.

I think all the fines against Harrison and guys like him are absurd. But I tend to side with the NFL on the bounty thing. Participating in a program that essentially encourages ending careers is unacceptable and sets an awful example for kids.

The NFL should have come down as harshly on the Patriots for their cheating. They got nothing but a slap on the wrist.

aggiebones
05-02-2012, 03:36 PM
They are definitely 'trying' to show the league is not about hurting anyone on purpose. The NFL will be hit VERY hard by some upcoming lawsuits. Brain damage is gonna be a biggie and could alter the game past recognition if they don't win somehow.
Junior Seau's death was another pox upon the league.


Eliminating permanent injuries is more important to the league than cheating. Rightfully so, though neither should be tolerated.

I can't remember what the Pats lost? Just cash or also picks? That was very early in Goodell's tenure.

hawaiiansteel
05-02-2012, 03:38 PM
They are definitely 'trying' to show the league is not about hurting anyone on purpose. The NFL will be hit VERY hard by some upcoming lawsuits. Brain damage is gonna be a biggie and could alter the game past recognition if they don't win somehow.
Junior Seau's death was another pox upon the league.


Junior Seau was one of the fiercest competitors I ever saw play.

a real tragedy, Junior Seau RIP...

phillyesq
05-02-2012, 03:43 PM
My biggest thought is that I wish the Steelers would keep quiet on this issue. If Vilma and the rest were attempting to injure people (not just hurt or knock out of a game, but injure), then I have no real problem with the suspensions.

Rather than be seen as protesting everything, I'd rather the Steelers players distinguish the conduct of the Saints from their own legitimate and hard hits.

RuthlessBurgher
05-02-2012, 03:50 PM
They are definitely 'trying' to show the league is not about hurting anyone on purpose. The NFL will be hit VERY hard by some upcoming lawsuits. Brain damage is gonna be a biggie and could alter the game past recognition if they don't win somehow.
Junior Seau's death was another pox upon the league.


Eliminating permanent injuries is more important to the league than cheating. Rightfully so, though neither should be tolerated.

I can't remember what the Pats lost? Just cash or also picks? That was very early in Goodell's tenure.

They forfeited their first round pick in 2008 because of SpyGate (it was supposed to be 31st overall), but were allowed to keep the other first round pick they obtained in a previous trade with San Francisco (10th overall; used to select Jerod Mayo).

ter1230_4
05-02-2012, 05:45 PM
My biggest thought is that I wish the Steelers would keep quiet on this issue. If Vilma and the rest were attempting to injure people (not just hurt or knock out of a game, but injure), then I have no real problem with the suspensions.

Rather than be seen as protesting everything, I'd rather the Steelers players distinguish the conduct of the Saints from their own legitimate and hard hits.

I couldn't agree more with the first part--the Steelers should just STFU about all of this stuff. The main reason they are Goofwell's main target for fines and suspensions is that they couldn't keep their mouths shut. When Roy Anderson praised Harrison after the Dolphins game in 2010 for changing the way he plays in response to the "new policy", all they had to do was to play along with the BS like the rest of the NFL sheep. But no, not only did Harrison deny that he changed the way he plays, but Tomlin had to make his famous comment about not being able to care less about what the League office thought. Goofwell and his minions have been at war against Harrison and the rest of the Steelers ever since. Sometime this season Harrison is going to make a hit that wouldn't get anyone else in the NFL fined and he will get suspended for 4 games.

hawaiiansteel
05-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Steelers take to Twitter after Bountygate suspensions

May 2, 2012
By Gerry Dulac / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://c4241337.r37.cf2.rackcdn.com/05-02-00_james-harrison_420.jpg

Several Steelers players reacted incredulously today on Twitter to the punishment handed four New Orleans Saints players -- including a one-year suspension to linebacker Jonathan Vilma -- for their role in Bountygate.

Outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley was one of several players who voiced displeasure after National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell announced the suspensions.

"Vilma suspended a whole yr FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL???? Cmon man!!!!!," Woodley wrote on Twitter.

Outside linebacker James Harrison, who has been fined and suspended by the league for illegal hits, tweeted, "Ridiculous, and nobody really sees why the punishments have been so severe over the past 3 4 years! Lawsuits and 18 games???"

Safety Ryan Clark played for the Washington Redskins when Gregg Williams, who was suspended indefinitely without pay for orchestrating the bounty scandal with the Saints, was their defensive coordinator. Williams is the defensive coordinator with the St. Louis Rams.

"Wonder why the team got the least penalties in Bounty Gate! Think about who elects & rewarded the commish, it's the owners of the teams!" the safety wrote on Twitter.

Vilma was one of four players identified as the ringleader of the bounty program that financially rewarded teammates for taking out or injuring star players on the opposing team. He was given the harshest penalty -- a one-year suspension -- for his role.

Also suspended were defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove (eight games), defensive end Will Smith (four games) and linebacker Scott Fujita (three games). Fujita now plays for the Cleveland Browns.

Responding on Twitter to a question about whether other teams condone similar actions, Harrison wrote, "I can't say that every team does that cause we don't and I haven't played for any other team."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-take-to-twitter-after-bountygate-suspensions-634069/

Sugar
05-02-2012, 06:32 PM
Were there any dirty hits or fouls caught on film? The NFL films everything anymore and has for years. It seems that if Vilma, or anyone else did anything dirty it would be on film. I can understand where the Steelers players are coming from seeing this. I wouldn't tell them to shut up about their careers anymore than I would want them to tell people to just play along with anyone else's company politics.

Crash
05-02-2012, 06:46 PM
Gerry Dulac needs to start walking home from Indy.

Chadman
05-02-2012, 07:46 PM
Roger Goodell is in a no-win situation here- he needs to attempt to protect the game from future legal issues, and by doing so, he'll change the way the game is played so far as physicality goes. That goes against the grain of what the average fan wants, and what most of the current & older players would want. But he has to do it to protect the guys that make the NFL work- the owners.

Ryan Clark seems to be on the right track- he questions why the players cop the bigger penalty & not the team. Simple- the Saints owners pay Goodell & the NFL's wages. Is it fair? No, not at all. But it's easy to see how this situation can arise. Same with the penalties on the Pats during Spy Gate- given the penalties the players cop, the Pats should easily have been handed a greater fine/punishment- but the fact is, Goodell was being forced in many ways, to reprimand his employer. How far can you go with that before you put the employer off-side?

We will see a safer NFL in time- won't happen right away, but rules will be changed in order to make it safer & new guys coming into the game will be taught the new guidelines from a much earlier stage in their learning process. We might not see "Goodell's NFL" for a good 5-6 years, to be honest. Until then we'll still see a core of players that believe 'the old way is the right way' & will resist change. Fines, suspensions etc will continue.

In the end- this is all Chadman's opinion, obviously. He doesn't 'blame' Goodell so much as he blames the modern society, where we offer a career path to young people, they go into this career path seeing only the money & the golden path they follow, and refuse to see for themselves the pitfalls that any career can disguise.

Players suing the NFL make Chadman shake his head- it's not like they didn't know they could get hurt going into the game. Could the NFL do more for safety? Probably. But so long as they continue to show efforts towards trying to improve player safety- can the players really ask for more?

Bounty Gate- the players should have copped these fines & suspensions. Woodley & Harrison are wrong- targetting players with the aim to hurt them is not in 'the spirit of the game'. It is, after all, a game- a sport. Football in itself will always produce injuries because of the nature of the game- but deliberately attempting to hurt someone- is criminal. The coaches copped their fines, and they deserved them too. The Saints football club should have been hit harder, however.

Steelgal
05-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Honestly, I wasn't surprised by the length of the suspensions. Vilma seemed to be one of the biggest players involved in bounty system. I was surprised only 4 players got suspended. I expected more and only 2 of them still play for the Saints.

As for how Spygate was punished, this has to be more heavily addressed because of the lawsuit issues. The NFL is about making money. Spygate didn't have any potential lawsuits stemming from it. This has the potential of sooo many more. When the NFL stops making a profit, it will end. Who knows how much they might have to pay out in the future on lost lawsuits.

Sometimes I think social media is a really bad thing for players. Yes, you can hear more from them or possibly even interact with them, but that has its downside. It gives them a media to speak their mind, when it isn't always warranted. It's not wrong to have an opinion, but some opinions just aren't meant to be said to millions of followers. I really think future contracts should have some type of social media clause in them, to an extent. Don't ban the players from participating, but give them restrictions on what can be said. If it's gonna hurt your franchise by unwanted attention, keep it to yourself.

Flasteel
05-02-2012, 08:37 PM
If these players actually took money for purposefully injuring other players...and there is some type of proof this took place, then I would fully agree with the suspensions. But these players and agents are screaming that this is not the case and that no evidence has even been presented.

How can these suspensions be handed down without the players hearing the evidence against them?

How does Vilma hear about his suspension from a TV broadcast? Doesn't Goodell owe it to all of them as men, to look them in the eye and tell them face-to-face?

I have stated before that I have no problem with a bounty system. As long as it's not asking players to operate outside the rules of the game or reward incidental injuries, nobody should have a problem with it.

Let's see the proof.

By the way...I have no problem with Woodley, Harrison, or any player speaking their mind...especially if they feel there is an injustice. The sanctity of the game is at stake here...I hope everyone who feels the same way speaks up. Go let Goodell run a two-hand touch league played in a giant moonwalk.

Shoe
05-02-2012, 09:29 PM
Does anyone know: Are the concussion related post-career stuff spread throughout NFL history? Or do they correlate with the advent of the types of equipment? i.e. modern ay helmet?

Oviedo
05-02-2012, 09:32 PM
of course Vilma getting suspended for a year is too harsh and excessive.

but this is not just about the bounty program, this is Roger Goodell and the NFL trying to protect themselves from future lawsuits.

That is exactly what I have been saying since last year. Everyone wants to make Goodell the villain and say he is ruining the game. The villains are the former players using the courts to maker a buck because they have wasted the money they earned in the NFL and have no other skills.

BTW Steelers LBs need to learn to keep their mouths shut and fingers still. Once gain they make themselves out as the malcontents to no ones benefit especially their own.

Sugar
05-02-2012, 09:40 PM
That is exactly what I have been saying since last year. Everyone wants to make Goodell the villain and say he is ruining the game. The villains are the former players using the courts to maker a buck because they have wasted the money they earned in the NFL and have no other skills.

BTW Steelers LBs need to learn to keep their mouths shut and fingers still. Once gain they make themselves out as the malcontents to no ones benefit especially their own.

I agree with the first paragraph and vehemently disagree with the second. Who are any of us to tell them not to voice an opinion they have about their workplace? I wouldn't want them telling me not to speak up about problems I see at work.

DukieBoy
05-02-2012, 11:22 PM
Were there any dirty hits or fouls caught on film? The NFL films everything anymore and has for years. It seems that if Vilma, or anyone else did anything dirty it would be on film. I can understand where the Steelers players are coming from seeing this. I wouldn't tell them to shut up about their careers anymore than I would want them to tell people to just play along with anyone else's company politics.
They did Favre real dirty in the NFCC game vs the Vikes. Sure looked to me like they were trying to take Favre out with late hits and shots to his legs.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
05-03-2012, 06:22 AM
I call BS.

"If players took money for trying to injure the other players ...".

"If players took money for trying to hit the other players as hard as they possibly could within the rules of the game ...".

There are rules in place. No hits to the head. No late hits. No chop blocks. IMO, the rules are there to place an outside boundary on how hard you can hit the other player. If you hit the other player as hard as you can WITHIN THE RULES, where's the foul? And if the other player has to leave the field because you did, is it your fault, or are the rules not good enough?

The NFL, I thought, pays players money ALL THE TIME to hit as hard as they can, within the rules. But it's unethical for the players to receive an extra few $$ from heir coaches for doing exactly the same thing?

So - maybe I missed it? - was it ever shown that the players were encouraged, monetarily or otherwise, to play outside the rules?

As an aside: Don't you think the NFL is to blame for the late hits on Favre in that playoff game rather than the players? If the refs had thrown flags when they were supposed to, the hits would have stopped.

I'm just not seeing it.

Jooser
05-03-2012, 06:42 AM
I played football from Peewee through College. I can honestly say that every football coach I ever had taught me to knock the other guy's d!ck in the dirt every time we made contact. If the other guy was hurt, then he was a P*ss (coach's words ;)). It's a tough, physical game if played correctly....and usually the most violent team will win if they sustain that dominance for the entire game.

But, I don't like cheap shots to injure your opponent. If that's what REALLY happened, then there should be consequences. The problem I'm seeing here is that no proof has been presented. It's people's word against each other.

DukieBoy
05-03-2012, 06:56 AM
I call BS.

"If players took money for trying to injure the other players ...".

"If players took money for trying to hit the other players as hard as they possibly could within the rules of the game ...".

There are rules in place. No hits to the head. No late hits. No chop blocks. IMO, the rules are there to place an outside boundary on how hard you can hit the other player. If you hit the other player as hard as you can WITHIN THE RULES, where's the foul? And if the other player has to leave the field because you did, is it your fault, or are the rules not good enough?

The NFL, I thought, pays players money ALL THE TIME to hit as hard as they can, within the rules. But it's unethical for the players to receive an extra few $$ from heir coaches for doing exactly the same thing?

So - maybe I missed it? - was it ever shown that the players were encouraged, monetarily or otherwise, to play outside the rules?

As an aside: Don't you think the NFL is to blame for the late hits on Favre in that playoff game rather than the players? If the refs had thrown flags when they were supposed to, the hits would have stopped.

I'm just not seeing it.
Agree 100%. The refs let it happen in the NFCC. The Saints players hit Favre late and low and dirty because they could, because the refs did not enforce the rules already in place.

Jooser
05-03-2012, 07:06 AM
Absolutely right Dukie. :tt2

ikestops85
05-03-2012, 11:20 AM
I played football from Peewee through College. I can honestly say that every football coach I ever had taught me to knock the other guy's d!ck in the dirt every time we made contact. If the other guy was hurt, then he was a P*ss (coach's words ;)). It's a tough, physical game if played correctly....and usually the most violent team will win if they sustain that dominance for the entire game.

But, I don't like cheap shots to injure your opponent. If that's what REALLY happened, then there should be consequences. The problem I'm seeing here is that no proof has been presented. It's people's word against each other.

I'm with you Jooser. There is a difference between trying to hurt a guy and trying to injure a guy. Harrisons words and I agree with them. He wants to hurt a guy enough that the guy will involuntarily release his grip on the ball. He doesn't want to end a guys career.

I would hope the Saints players wouldn't try to take a guys livelyhood away from them by deliberately trying to injure. If they would then the suspensions are justified ... just show us the proof.

BradshawsHairdresser
05-03-2012, 12:00 PM
Doubtful if facts and proof matter a whole lot to Herr Goodell...

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
05-03-2012, 01:16 PM
Man, I hate twitter

Eich
05-03-2012, 01:30 PM
Greg Williams, "....also instructed his players to test Kyle Williams’ concussion, aim for Michael Crabtree’s ACL, and attempt to injure Vernon Davis’ ankle by bull-rushing him into a pile of players."

How do you do that while playing within the rules?

RuthlessBurgher
05-03-2012, 01:51 PM
I'm with you Jooser. There is a difference between trying to hurt a guy and trying to injure a guy. Harrisons words and I agree with them. He wants to hurt a guy enough that the guy will involuntarily release his grip on the ball. He doesn't want to end a guys career.

I would hope the Saints players wouldn't try to take a guys livelyhood away from them by deliberately trying to injure. If they would then the suspensions are justified ... just show us the proof.

Goodell most likely has all the proof for these Bounty allegations...but he probably already burned the tapes. :HeadBanger

Oviedo
05-03-2012, 03:39 PM
Hurt = make them uncomfortable enough to destroy their will to compete and degrade their behavior and performance

Injure = causing damage to a body part that physically effects the ability to play

ikestops85
05-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Hurt = make them uncomfortable enough to destroy their will to compete and degrade their behavior and performance

Injure = causing damage to a body part that physically effects the ability to play

Well said sir! :Clap

RuthlessBurgher
05-03-2012, 04:01 PM
Hurt = make them uncomfortable enough to destroy their will to compete and degrade their behavior and performance

Injure = causing damage to a body part that physically effects the ability to play

Yup...you want your opponents to feel pain when you hit them (thereby altering that person's willingness to give up his body in future plays against you), but you don't want to send anyone to I.R. You want him to have to spend extra time in the tub after the game to recover afterwards, but not have to get surgery to repair a broken bone or a torn ligament.

Oviedo
05-03-2012, 04:09 PM
Yup...you want your opponents to feel pain when you hit them (thereby altering that person's willingness to give up his body in future plays against you), but you don't want to send anyone to I.R. You want him to have to spend extra time in the tub after the game to recover afterwards, but not have to get surgery to repair a broken bone or a torn ligament.

Unless it is Terrell Suggs or any other Rvens starter and you then want him to do it to himself. It is the best of all worlds.

phillyesq
05-03-2012, 04:47 PM
Unless it is Terrell Suggs or any other Rvens starter and you then want him to do it to himself. It is the best of all worlds.

Even with Suggs, I still don't want him to be unable to play. Part of what makes the rivalry with the Ravens so enjoyable is that they are so tough. If the Ravens were to become a pushover in the division, they'd be just like the Browns.

Sugar
05-06-2012, 02:26 PM
Even with Suggs, I still don't want him to be unable to play. Part of what makes the rivalry with the Ravens so enjoyable is that they are so tough. If the Ravens were to become a pushover in the division, they'd be just like the Browns.
Well, they kinda are the Browns. Kinda...

That said, I like the fact that three AFCN teams were in the playoffs last year. I would much rather be king of a sweet division than a sucky one.