PDA

View Full Version : If Adams doesn't fail the drug test...



Shoe
04-30-2012, 01:00 AM
it's pretty certain that he's a first-round draft pick. Do you think the team still takes DeCastro?

In any case, the drug test changed the complexion of our draft. I think we still take DeCastro in a heartbeat... but I also think Adams gets taken where guys like him have tended to get taken (in that 20-30 range). Taking him out of the equation, we may take Lavonte David for example. That would mean we don't take Sean Spence in the 3rd... maybe we take someone like T.Y. Hilton. etc.

All because Adams was such an unmitigated duh mass.

SteelAddicted
04-30-2012, 08:25 AM
It's no question the drug test helped the Steelers, you can't pass up that pick... especially given the effort Adams gave to make things right. Adams is a first round talent, so the Steelers were able to get two first round offensive lineman. A little pot isn't going to scare me away from a player.

Shawn
04-30-2012, 08:39 AM
DeCastro>>>>>>>Adams. Yes, the Steelers still take DeCastro.

phillyesq
04-30-2012, 09:38 AM
It's no question the drug test helped the Steelers, you can't pass up that pick... especially given the effort Adams gave to make things right. Adams is a first round talent, so the Steelers were able to get two first round offensive lineman. A little pot isn't going to scare me away from a player.

The issue for many isn't the pot itself, it's the fact that he failed the test knowing that he was going to get tested. That said, he certainly seemed genuinine in his remorse and efforts to turn things around.

To answer the initial question, I would think and hope that the Steelers still had DeCastro rated higher. He was one of the 8-10 guys that Colbert had identified as a sure fire first round pick. I don't think you can say the same for Adams.

Adams has first round talent but did not always play to that talent. I'm rooting for him, and hope that everything that led up to him being drafted will keep him focused and motivated.

steelblood
04-30-2012, 10:20 AM
The issue for me is not the pot. It is that Adams was inconsistent and was not a great pass protector despite his skill set. This is the issue. If Kugler fixes this, all will be fine, and he will be a serviceable-to-very-good tackle.

SS Laser
05-01-2012, 01:18 AM
Ok first off yes I am nuts. But I am wondering if this was a planned set up by Adams and his agent? Adams really wanted to play for the steelers it sounds. Why not puff-puff a little before the combine to drop your stock. Then run to the steelers on bended knee. I just hope he works his azz off and becomes a great player.

I don't buy into conspiracy theories but this just smells to perfect to me.:tt2

Shawn
05-01-2012, 07:11 AM
I see substance abuse issues a bit differently than most. Why his drug test was positive before a combine is obviously the question. If Adams was truly smoking pot before the combine, he is either very very dumb or he is an addict. There is no good scenario here. In the first case, usually after the fear or the novelty of the new situation wears off, they go back to doing dumb things and causing team drama...ie Holmes. If he is an addict, he needs treatment...and he isn't getting it.

Now, there is a third scenario and I have my fingers crossed. Hair testing. I have heard of these popping positive up to 3 years after initially smoking pot. I have no idea what kind of drug test he failed, and in my mind that is important info in this situation.

Shawn
05-01-2012, 07:12 AM
Ok first off yes I am nuts. But I am wondering if this was a planned set up by Adams and his agent? Adams really wanted to play for the steelers it sounds. Why not puff-puff a little before the combine to drop your stock. Then run to the steelers on bended knee. I just hope he works his azz off and becomes a great player.

I don't buy into conspiracy theories but this just smells to perfect to me.:tt2

So he decided to give up millions by smoking pot hoping the Steelers who don't usually draft pot smokers...would draft him?

steelblood
05-01-2012, 10:00 AM
I see substance abuse issues a bit differently than most. Why his drug test was positive before a combine is obviously the question. If Adams was truly smoking pot before the combine, he is either very very dumb or he is an addict. There is no good scenario here. In the first case, usually after the fear or the novelty of the new situation wears off, they go back to doing dumb things and causing team drama...ie Holmes. If he is an addict, he needs treatment...and he isn't getting it.

Now, there is a third scenario and I have my fingers crossed. Hair testing. I have heard of these popping positive up to 3 years after initially smoking pot. I have no idea what kind of drug test he failed, and in my mind that is important info in this situation.

No doubt it was a dumb decision. But, I feel that it is indicative of a personality that needs focus and motivation. If Kugler can get through to him, I think he'll be (in the least) moderately successful.

birtikidis
05-01-2012, 10:35 AM
Ok first off yes I am nuts. But I am wondering if this was a planned set up by Adams and his agent? Adams really wanted to play for the steelers it sounds. Why not puff-puff a little before the combine to drop your stock. Then run to the steelers on bended knee. I just hope he works his azz off and becomes a great player.

I don't buy into conspiracy theories but this just smells to perfect to me.:tt2
Ok, you're nuts.
but I'm cynical
I think the only reason Adams came to Pittsburgh was because he KNEW that his only shot of going in the first round was with the Steelers. He knew that he'd fall, he's from Farrell, which isn't too far from the city so it really wasn't a big deal to drive over there anyway. Yea he's a steeler fan, but the reality is, he KNEW the Steelers needed depth at OL and his only shot of going early-ish in the draft was through Pittsburgh.

BradshawsHairdresser
05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
I see substance abuse issues a bit differently than most. Why his drug test was positive before a combine is obviously the question. If Adams was truly smoking pot before the combine, he is either very very dumb or he is an addict. There is no good scenario here. In the first case, usually after the fear or the novelty of the new situation wears off, they go back to doing dumb things and causing team drama...ie Holmes. If he is an addict, he needs treatment...and he isn't getting it.
Reportedly, he is undergoing counseling as part of his "deal" with the Steelers to convince them to draft him. Exactly what kind of counseling, I don't know.


Now, there is a third scenario and I have my fingers crossed. Hair testing. I have heard of these popping positive up to 3 years after initially smoking pot. I have no idea what kind of drug test he failed, and in my mind that is important info in this situation.
I find it hard to believe he would fall off the draft boards of so many teams if they thought his pot use was from 2 or 3 years ago...I would think the kind of test he failed may have covered a few months, but not years. Anybody here know for sure?

Dee Dub
05-01-2012, 12:36 PM
I see substance abuse issues a bit differently than most. Why his drug test was positive before a combine is obviously the question. If Adams was truly smoking pot before the combine, he is either very very dumb or he is an addict. There is no good scenario here. In the first case, usually after the fear or the novelty of the new situation wears off, they go back to doing dumb things and causing team drama...ie Holmes. If he is an addict, he needs treatment...and he isn't getting it.

Now, there is a third scenario and I have my fingers crossed. Hair testing. I have heard of these popping positive up to 3 years after initially smoking pot. I have no idea what kind of drug test he failed, and in my mind that is important info in this situation.

If I am not mistaken I believe they do hair testing. And as you know that could have results from 10 years past.

But regardless, whatever he did, he showed great character by doing what he did after the fact. How many players is age have done that? Call the Steelers, admit his mistake, drive to meet them, and adhere to everything they asked him to do? I really admire that. He was going to get picked before the end of round 2 by someone. He really didnt have to do what he did. The kid was willing to do what ever it took to become a Pittsburgh Steeler. I think we may be seeing someone who is now driven. And Shawn you know if this kid is driven he has the potential to be great.

Shawn
05-01-2012, 01:03 PM
10 years? I do addiction medicine for a living and never heard of any reports more than 3 years. And most of the time 6-9 months is the max. I mean hair grows, and it's cut. If it's a urine drug screen, a week unless there is heavy use which can extend that to as much as 45 days. So, if someone comes in for an assessment and their UDS isn't dirty but their hair is, odds are that they have smoked in the last year sometime.

So, lets assume his UDS was clean and he popped positive on the hair. Odds are that he has smoked in the last year but not right before the draft. For me, that is reassuring. Not everyone who smokes pot is an addict. And you are not dealing with someone who was smoking before the combine. That would be reassuring to me, and counseling would be sufficient in most instances.

Now if it's a positive in a urine drug screen, that smells like addiction to me unless proven otherwise. Someone trying to squeeze in another J before one of the biggest days of his life is likely an addict. In that case, counseling is usually not enough. He is going to need at minimum a outpatient treatment, and if he tests positive again...inpatient. The NFL does a terrible job at getting help for some of these young men who suffer from addiction issues.

Djfan
05-01-2012, 01:18 PM
The NFL does a terrible job at getting help for some of these young men who suffer from addiction issues.

Why is it the NFL's responsibility? That's crazy.

RuthlessBurgher
05-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Yea he's a steeler fan, but the reality is, he KNEW the Steelers needed depth at OL and his only shot of going early-ish in the draft was through Pittsburgh.

None of the other 31 teams had a need at tackle? Tackles are always in high demand and short supply. Even the teams who already employ the best tackles in the business (Joe Thomas and Jake Long), felt they needed to use a high pick on another tackle in the early 2nd round with Mike Adams still on the board (Mitchell Schwartz to Cleveland at 2.37, Jonathan Martin to Miami at 2.42, Mike Adams to Pittsburgh at 2.56).

birtikidis
05-01-2012, 03:09 PM
None of the other 31 teams had a need at tackle? Tackles are always in high demand and short supply. Even the teams who already employ the best tackles in the business (Joe Thomas and Jake Long), felt they needed to use a high pick on another tackle in the early 2nd round with Mike Adams still on the board (Mitchell Schwartz to Cleveland at 2.37, Jonathan Martin to Miami at 2.42, Mike Adams to Pittsburgh at 2.56). We used 25 different line combos. Our Starting LT suffered a torn ACL. Our RT hasn't played in 2 years. He failed a drug test. That caused him to fall. Everyone Knows how bad our o-line is. If he doesn't fail that drug test he doesn't fall to the second round. His LONE shot of making it in the first was the steelers because of all our issues. A lot of teams took him off their board because he failed a drug test and then LIED about it. He was in panic mode at that point.

RuthlessBurgher
05-01-2012, 03:18 PM
We used 25 different line combos. Our Starting LT suffered a torn ACL. Our RT hasn't played in 2 years. He failed a drug test. That caused him to fall. Everyone Knows how bad our o-line is. If he doesn't fail that drug test he doesn't fall to the second round. His LONE shot of making it in the first was the steelers because of all our issues. A lot of teams took him off their board because he failed a drug test and then LIED about it. He was in panic mode at that point.

If Riley Reiff hadn't fallen into Detroit's lap one spot ahead of us, they could have possibly taken Adams as the heir apparent to Jeff Backus there (their F.O. won't eliminate players for marijuana use...their first two picks in the previous draft were Nick Fairley and Mikel Leshoure).

Shawn
05-01-2012, 03:18 PM
Why is it the NFL's responsibility? That's crazy.

Most employers will work to help employees get help with addiction issues. If someone has eaten themselves into type II diabetes an employer will help that person due to medical consequences of that disease. How is drug or alcohol addiction any different? There should be consequences to drug use, but those consequences should involve treatment.

birtikidis
05-01-2012, 03:35 PM
If Riley Reiff hadn't fallen into Detroit's lap one spot ahead of us, they could have possibly taken Adams as the heir apparent to Jeff Backus there (their F.O. won't eliminate players for marijuana use...their first two picks in the previous draft were Nick Fairley and Mikel Leshoure).
Absolutely, Adams had fallen. hard. We were one of the few teams that couldn't pass on Adams because of the need for a quality player at tackle. I warned y'all. I"m cynical.

Sugar
05-01-2012, 04:53 PM
Most employers will work to help employees get help with addiction issues. If someone has eaten themselves into type II diabetes an employer will help that person due to medical consequences of that disease. How is drug or alcohol addiction any different? There should be consequences to drug use, but those consequences should involve treatment.
While I agree that it's a cool thing for employers to help their people with various issues, it isn't their responsibility to do so. Either way, I hope that Adams gets the counseling or treatment that he needs. Addicts will say and do anything to get what they want, so I hope that it hasn't come to that in his life.

Djfan
05-01-2012, 05:04 PM
While I agree that it's a cool thing for employers to help their people with various issues, it isn't their responsibility to do so. Either way, I hope that Adams gets the counseling or treatment that he needs. Addicts will say and do anything to get what they want, so I hope that it hasn't come to that in his life.

I completely agree with this. I'm tired of this culture where our needs are someone else's responsibility.

Shawn
05-01-2012, 05:53 PM
I completely agree with this. I'm tired of this culture where our needs are someone else's responsibility.

Let me try to understand your reasoning. If a diabetic has a diabetic complication, then the employer should be able to punish the employee? If a smoker comes down with lung cancer, a person should be able to be suspended or fired from their job? Fortunately, Americans are protected from bigotry by the Americans with disabilities act.

Shawn
05-01-2012, 05:57 PM
While I agree that it's a cool thing for employers to help their people with various issues, it isn't their responsibility to do so. Either way, I hope that Adams gets the counseling or treatment that he needs. Addicts will say and do anything to get what they want, so I hope that it hasn't come to that in his life.

Employers risk legal recourse when they begin discriminating based upon disease process. The reason so many have a difficult time with addiction is because they see it as a moral failing...a choice.

Dee Dub
05-01-2012, 06:56 PM
Employers risk legal recourse when they begin discriminating based upon disease process. The reason so many have a difficult time with addiction is because they see it as a moral failing...a choice.

Spot on!! And I will add, that many who are addicted and have trouble beating the addiction, think they can do so by their own will. And as one who struggled with it and eventually overcame it, it was a power far greater than myself who was able to get me through it.

God is good!

Sugar
05-01-2012, 11:04 PM
Employers risk legal recourse when they begin discriminating based upon disease process. The reason so many have a difficult time with addiction is because they see it as a moral failing...a choice.

That is exactly how I see it. An employer is not under obligation if an employee can't abide by legal company rules. Businesses exist to provide products or services, not provide people with jobs or healthcare or treatment, etc. As someone who has seen enough addicts fired, I don't think the NFL or the Steelers are going to be in any legal hot water.

Chadman
05-01-2012, 11:16 PM
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Djfan http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=508299#post508299)
Why is it the NFL's responsibility? That's crazy.



Most employers will work to help employees get help with addiction issues. If someone has eaten themselves into type II diabetes an employer will help that person due to medical consequences of that disease. How is drug or alcohol addiction any different? There should be consequences to drug use, but those consequences should involve treatment.

The biggest difference, of course, between drug addiction & Type 2 diabetes is one is legal, the other is illegal.

That might carry some weight in a person or company's decision to help- and to vilify them for NOT wanting to help is certainly not justified. Some people & company's may find it outside of their moral radar to jump in.

Shawn
05-01-2012, 11:38 PM
So if a player gets hooked on legal narcotics prescribed by a doctor, what then? And while there are many who are ignorant on the science of addiction which leads to bigotry and discrimination...there are indeed laws set up to protect these individuals. The way a person with a genetic predisposition towards addiction reacts to a mind altering substance is much like an allergy. When Chadman drinks a foster, he can choose whether he picks another one up. If I pick one up, I lose all ability to choose...the allergy kicks in...the obsession rules and I lose all ability to control when I stop. As long as I don't pick up, I have a choice. About 10 percent of the population reacts to chemicals in this fashion. Once the addiction switch is flipped, treatment just like with any other disease is needed. I have seen too many good people get caught up in addiction to attribute it to a moral failing.

Shawn
05-01-2012, 11:45 PM
That is exactly how I see it. An employer is not under obligation if an employee can't abide by legal company rules. Businesses exist to provide products or services, not provide people with jobs or healthcare or treatment, etc. As someone who has seen enough addicts fired, I don't think the NFL or the Steelers are going to be in any legal hot water.

It's against company rules to take a controlled substance prescribed by a doctor? Not in most companies. Or is it that you see all addicts as having a needle in their arm, or alcoholics as living under a bridge? What about myself, who never missed a day of work, but drank too much after work? How does that violate company rules? Why shouldnt an alcoholic be able to seek treatment, and be able to have a job to come home to? Why should they have less rights than the diabetic who ate themselves into insulin resistance?

Djfan
05-02-2012, 02:13 AM
Our culture has taken the kindness of many employers in helping their ailing or addicted employees, and made it into an obligation for the employers to help them. Not once did I enter into the addiction vs. ailment argument. It just isn't the employer's responsibility.

skyhawk
05-02-2012, 02:17 AM
So if a player gets hooked on legal narcotics prescribed by a doctor, what then? And while there are many who are ignorant on the science of addiction which leads to bigotry and discrimination...there are indeed laws set up to protect these individuals. The way a person with a genetic predisposition towards addiction reacts to a mind altering substance is much like an allergy. When Chadman drinks a foster, he can choose whether he picks another one up. If I pick one up, I lose all ability to choose...the allergy kicks in...the obsession rules and I lose all ability to control when I stop. As long as I don't pick up, I have a choice. About 10 percent of the population reacts to chemicals in this fashion. Once the addiction switch is flipped, treatment just like with any other disease is needed. I have seen too many good people get caught up in addiction to attribute it to a moral failing.

Excellent post. :Agree

Shawn
05-02-2012, 10:18 AM
Our culture has taken the kindness of many employers in helping their ailing or addicted employees, and made it into an obligation for the employers to help them. Not once did I enter into the addiction vs. ailment argument. It just isn't the employer's responsibility.

Its not an obligation to help with treatment. But, you don't punish an employee for needing to get treatment. If an alcoholic goes to an employer and says that he needs help. The employer should allow him/her to get help without it endangering their job. To merely punish addiction is archaic and barbaric. It's dripping with judgment.

Djfan
05-02-2012, 10:31 AM
Its not an obligation to help with treatment. But, you don't punish an employee for needing to get treatment. If an alcoholic goes to an employer and says that he needs help. The employer should allow him/her to get help without it endangering their job. To merely punish addiction is archaic and barbaric. It's dripping with judgment.

Shawn, get over this. Not once did I say "Punish" etc. You have to hear what is being said, NOT what your agenda hears.

I'm out.

RuthlessBurgher
05-02-2012, 12:20 PM
So if a player gets hooked on legal narcotics prescribed by a doctor, what then? And while there are many who are ignorant on the science of addiction which leads to bigotry and discrimination...there are indeed laws set up to protect these individuals. The way a person with a genetic predisposition towards addiction reacts to a mind altering substance is much like an allergy. When Chadman drinks a foster, he can choose whether he picks another one up. If I pick one up, I lose all ability to choose...the allergy kicks in...the obsession rules and I lose all ability to control when I stop. As long as I don't pick up, I have a choice. About 10 percent of the population reacts to chemicals in this fashion. Once the addiction switch is flipped, treatment just like with any other disease is needed. I have seen too many good people get caught up in addiction to attribute it to a moral failing.

Everyone knows Foster's isn't sold in Australia. It's just marketed that way to cater to stupid Americans. :D

Sugar
05-02-2012, 01:25 PM
It's against company rules to take a controlled substance prescribed by a doctor? Not in most companies. Or is it that you see all addicts as having a needle in their arm, or alcoholics as living under a bridge? What about myself, who never missed a day of work, but drank too much after work? How does that violate company rules? Why shouldnt an alcoholic be able to seek treatment, and be able to have a job to come home to? Why should they have less rights than the diabetic who ate themselves into insulin resistance?

Im in a rock band. I see addicts of various stripes all the time. It's not germain to the issue at hand though in dealing with Adams. He's not dealing with legal substances and his response is his responsibility, not the Steelers or the NFL. If they provide avenues to help him to overcome these issues, great. However, let's not confuse kindness with obligation.

Shawn
05-02-2012, 02:46 PM
Shawn, get over this. Not once did I say "Punish" etc. You have to hear what is being said, NOT what your agenda hears.

I'm out.

You spoke about "our needs being someone elses responsibility"...and your distain for that mentality. While I tend to be conservative on most issues, I also tend to see the field fairly. And what I was trying to show you is that mentality is not a fair mentality if we discriminate. If that got you upset I apologize, that wasn't my intention. My only intention is to educate in a field I am passionate about.

Shawn
05-02-2012, 02:49 PM
Im in a rock band. I see addicts of various stripes all the time. It's not germain to the issue at hand though in dealing with Adams. He's not dealing with legal substances and his response is his responsibility, not the Steelers or the NFL. If they provide avenues to help him to overcome these issues, great. However, let's not confuse kindness with obligation.

We can certainly agree to disagree. But, I believe punishing addiction without providing avenues for treatment is discriminatory. You disagree. That is ok.

Dee Dub
05-04-2012, 06:10 PM
Everyone knows Foster's isn't sold in Australia. It's just marketed that way to cater to stupid Americans. :D

Same thing with Dois Equis. Not a Mexican Beer.

RuthlessBurgher
05-04-2012, 06:59 PM
Same thing with Dois Equis. Not a Mexican Beer.

The next thing you'll tell me is this guy isn't actually the most interesting man in the world!!! :D

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/598/The-Most-Interesting-Man-in-the-World.jpg