PDA

View Full Version : ILB Sean Spence Miami 3rd round pick



Dee Dub
04-27-2012, 10:41 PM
OK.......I guess

steelerkeylargo
04-27-2012, 10:45 PM
This kid has fantastic football instincts. Plays fast. His size is a concern though.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-27-2012, 10:45 PM
Audie Cole sitting there & we take a 5'11" 230lb LB? Is he our new SS?

Shawn
04-27-2012, 10:49 PM
I love the pick. I think many fans still believe the Steelers want thumpers. They don't...they want linebackers with speed.

Dee Dub
04-27-2012, 10:54 PM
I love the pick. I think many fans still believe the Steelers want thumpers. They don't...they want linebackers with speed.

Well actually Shawn he ran a 4.71 40 which is a lot slower than Dont'a Hightower's 4.62.

But on another note, this guy is built like James Harrison and if he can get underneeath like Harrison this could be a solid pick. He may even move outside at some point.

Dee Dub
04-27-2012, 11:00 PM
31 tackles for loss the past two years. Nice.

Shawn
04-27-2012, 11:02 PM
I believe Sean ran a 4.56

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-27-2012, 11:07 PM
The Steelers had a full contingent out for Miami's pro day....so this pick is not a guess. The wanted him.

DukieBoy
04-27-2012, 11:07 PM
I believe Sean ran a 4.56

He is exceptionally quick, as well.

DukieBoy
04-27-2012, 11:08 PM
​Just a bit smaller Lavonte DAvid.

Dee Dub
04-27-2012, 11:12 PM
I believe Sean ran a 4.56 They posted it as 4.71 on NFL Network and...




Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 5113
Weight: 231
40 Yrd Dash: 4.71
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 12
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.28
3-Cone Drill: 7.46



Dates: 03/08/12
Height: 5113
Weight: 231
40 Yrd Dash:
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump:
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.33
3-Cone Drill: 7.08





http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84463&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB


But I hope I am wrong and you are right on this one.

Chadman
04-27-2012, 11:15 PM
He's obviously smaller than we are used to- but so was Timmons. He's fast- 4.56 is more the mark than 4.7, quick, and a playmaker.

He also was a team leader- which we'll need going forward. And while he only did 12 reps of 225lbs at the Combine- he did it hurt, which tells Chadman that he doesn't hide from adverse situations.

Dude is a PLAYER, and will play ILB.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-27-2012, 11:16 PM
about time we got a player from The U.

special teams contributor right off the bat.

steelz09
04-27-2012, 11:16 PM
I think they drafted him exclusively for ILB. He just needs James Harrison to show him the weight room :)

Flasteel
04-27-2012, 11:17 PM
Miami linebacker Sean Spence raises eyebrows with weak bench Posted by Michael David Smith on February 27, 2012, 1:38 PM EDT
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/seanspence.jpg?w=250 APThe list of the weakest players on the bench press (http://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker?module=HP11_hot_topics) at this year’s Scouting Combine starts with seven wide receivers, and then a player who sticks out like a sore thumb: Miami linebacker Sean Spence.
Spence managed to put up just 12 repetitions at 225 pounds, which is perfectly good for a typical guy working out at a local gym, but not good at all for an NFL linebacker. NFL Network’s Mike Mayock said Spence’s performance was troubling.
“This one bothers me because I loved this kid as a player,” Mayock said. “A 231-pound linebacker with instincts and speed. Come on. Have you been in the weight room? I don’t get that.”
In his session with the media, Spence acknowledged that his biggest problem on the field is getting off blocks, but he said teams that watch him on tape will see that he has elite speed.
“I think I’m a three down linebacker, very fast, I can go sideline to sideline,” Spence said. “I’m a smart, very instinctive player. I’m going to play hard. I’m a leader. I lead by example, and most of all I make plays.”
The good thing about a weak upper body is it’s something that can be improved with hard work in the weight room. But NFL teams will wonder why Spence hasn’t already done that hard work in the weight room.

How in the hell is he 5'11" and 231 lbs and not already living in the weight room? Is he all biceps and legs? Does he have a giant but?

SS Laser
04-27-2012, 11:17 PM
Does he not compare to Kendricks? Which some wanted here.

steelblood
04-27-2012, 11:24 PM
Does he not compare to Kendricks? Which some wanted here.

Well, they are both short, athletic and run well. But, Kendricks is much stronger and fights through traffic better.

blitz71burgh
04-27-2012, 11:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bWzJi1y6uhY

Flasteel
04-28-2012, 12:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bWzJi1y6uhY

That dude is small, but he explodes into his tackles. Impressive highlight reel.

flippy
04-28-2012, 01:08 AM
Love the Spence pick. It's a progressive pick. This is the new prototype ILB - more of a safety/LB hybrid with athleticism that can be more effective in this new pass happy NFL. Farrior not being able to keep up with anyone in coverage was getting tiring.

I have to admit, I was concerned we'd end up with Hightower who I see as a 2 down LB of a past era.

All in all a good first 2 days.

focosteeler
04-28-2012, 01:21 AM
Love the Spence pick. It's a progressive pick. This is the new prototype ILB - more of a safety/LB hybrid with athleticism that can be more effective in this new pass happy NFL. Farrior not being able to keep up with anyone in coverage was getting tiring.

I have to admit, I was concerned we'd end up with Hightower who I see as a 2 down LB of a past era.

All in all a good first 2 days.

:Agree I cant wait to see what guys we pick up tomorrow!

Shoe
04-28-2012, 02:12 AM
Nobody has injected the age-old (at least since Tomlin has been here) 3-4/4-3 debate? Spence isn't a 3-4 ILB, not with a 11 rep bench press. He's also not a Safety. He is fast and talented, and he would seem to fit very well as a 4-3 OLB.

flippy
04-28-2012, 02:41 AM
Nobody has injected the age-old (at least since Tomlin has been here) 3-4/4-3 debate? Spence isn't a 3-4 ILB, not with a 11 rep bench press. He's also not a Safety. He is fast and talented, and he would seem to fit very well as a 4-3 OLB.

Was there a reason his bench was so low? I tend to prefer on field performance over the combine numbers. And on the field, he doesn't look soft. Although with an 11 number, I'd be concerned about him getting off blocks and getting stuck in traffic.

But when you watch his game tapes, he's a beast on the field. So I'd lean toward he'll get stronger and be just fine.

All guys have some weakness by the 3rd round. Spence's weakness is his height and his bench press. On the field, he looks like one of the best college defenders in the game. This could be a really solid pick considering the league is a changing.

Steelerphile
04-28-2012, 04:46 AM
Nobody has injected the age-old (at least since Tomlin has been here) 3-4/4-3 debate? Spence isn't a 3-4 ILB, not with a 11 rep bench press. He's also not a Safety. He is fast and talented, and he would seem to fit very well as a 4-3 OLB.

I doubt the pick implies a switch to 4-3, in the least. As far as him only being a 4-3 lineback, that is pre-draft talk, speculative. He clearly needs to get stronger, but I love the highlight reel. It will be interesting to see how he develops.

jj28west
04-28-2012, 06:02 AM
Was there a reason his bench was so low? I tend to prefer on field performance over the combine numbers. And on the field, he doesn't look soft. Although with an 11 number, I'd be concerned about him getting off blocks and getting stuck in traffic.

But when you watch his game tapes, he's a beast on the field. So I'd lean toward he'll get stronger and be just fine.

All guys have some weakness by the 3rd round. Spence's weakness is his height and his bench press. On the field, he looks like one of the best college defenders in the game. This could be a really solid pick considering the league is a changing.

He was injured. If you take the 3-4 scheme he should in theory be clean most of the time. As far as a mauler type of pulling guard, it seems this kid may be so quick and instinctive that he may be able to get to the RB while the guard whiffs.

I dont know. I thought Bruce Davis was a cant miss prospect so it is in the front office I trust.

Keyplay1
04-28-2012, 06:43 AM
I decided to not question this pick. And yes, Dee Dub is right about the 4:71. Note also that he did not improve on it at the pro-day. My original reply is below and like I said give this pick the benefit of the doubt and anyway if anyone has a good memory think back to Chadman's big thread where he covered all the bases. One post had to do with schools the Steelers have picked players from. This aroused my curiousity so I went to profootball-reference and was looking at all the players drafted from various colleges. After a bit I concluded there was no significant leanings and it was really a random thing. Although only a few were from Miami and someone suggested that since the Steelers spent a lot of time down there this year they would take a player from that school. So my only negative then is that I suppose that this pick would make the chances of taking NB less likely.

This was my original post.

Yeah, he's really not very fast. But he is very active. He seems to be all over the field but really not in the right places it looks like. Not sure the Steelers are going to find a place for this one. Not only that but now chances of getting Nigel Bradham seem very slim. A lot of posters like NB and he was ranked just below Spence who was at the tail end of rd 3 and NB is in the top 3rd of the 4th. Big deal. Brooks is also in that top 4th grouping. "Of course they will be long gone before Pit picks again."

"Of course they will be long gone before Pit picks again." I suppose this is really my beef.

In rd 2 at least 20 of the players posters here wanted were gone before 56. In rd3 only maybe a half dozen before 86. Hey okay other teams have scouts too. But, if you look close you will see that many of those players taken before the Steelers picked were ranked lower than either 56 or 86. In other words some teams are having courage and are being bold in acquiring players they think can play. It seems the Steelers are relying on crap luck and frankly getting it but how about showing some guts and go get a player that is valued. In rd2 4teams moved up to get valued players at very little cost. In rd3 5 did the same. I would bet in every case the move was a winner.

NottinghamForest_UK
04-28-2012, 07:08 AM
Just looked at his game tape, and he looks faster than a 4.71 (40) shows great athleticism, explosive .... looks a great future prospect!

Slapstick
04-28-2012, 08:08 AM
I In other words some teams are having courage and are being bold in acquiring players they think can play. It seems the Steelers are relying on crap luck and frankly getting it but how about showing some guts and go get a player that is valued. In rd2 4teams moved up to get valued players at very little cost. In rd3 5 did the same. I would bet in every case the move was a winner.

Other teams are reaching...

If overdrafting is "being bold", I'll stick with being conservative...

phillyesq
04-28-2012, 08:13 AM
Looks like Spence will start as a special teams player and back up Timmons at the Mack, with Sylvester Stevenson backing up Foote at the buck, at least to start:

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Third-Round-Press-Conference-Transcript/de9c9668-0dff-43cb-bc67-5d69eda3e6cc

This isn't my favorite pick, but Butler makes the point that he is about the same size as Farrior.

NorthCoast
04-28-2012, 08:46 AM
Love the pick. He's got the quickness we have sorely lacked with Foote and Farrior.

some of you are way too focused on the bench numbers...... like they will never improve.

Trust me, strength is one thing that can be trained into a player, and who better to show the way than James Harrison.

MeetJoeGreene
04-28-2012, 09:14 AM
L

some of you are way too focused on the bench numbers...... like they will never improve.

Trust me, strength is one thing that can be trained into a player, and who better to show the way than James Harrison.

That is a really good point.. hope he is motivated. Maybe he will defer his signing bonus for a year until he gets 25 reps :)

NJ-STEELER
04-28-2012, 09:28 AM
Miami linebacker Sean Spence raises eyebrows with weak bench

Posted by Michael David Smith on February 27, 2012, 1:38 PM EDT
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/seanspence.jpg?w=250 APThe list of the weakest players on the bench press (http://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker?module=HP11_hot_topics) at this year’s Scouting Combine starts with seven wide receivers, and then a player who sticks out like a sore thumb: Miami linebacker Sean Spence.
Spence managed to put up just 12 repetitions at 225 pounds, which is perfectly good for a typical guy working out at a local gym, but not good at all for an NFL linebacker. NFL Network’s Mike Mayock said Spence’s performance was troubling.
“This one bothers me because I loved this kid as a player,” Mayock said. “A 231-pound linebacker with instincts and speed. Come on. Have you been in the weight room? I don’t get that.”
In his session with the media, Spence acknowledged that his biggest problem on the field is getting off blocks, but he said teams that watch him on tape will see that he has elite speed.
“I think I’m a three down linebacker, very fast, I can go sideline to sideline,” Spence said. “I’m a smart, very instinctive player. I’m going to play hard. I’m a leader. I lead by example, and most of all I make plays.”
The good thing about a weak upper body is it’s something that can be improved with hard work in the weight room. But NFL teams will wonder why Spence hasn’t already done that hard work in the weight room.

How in the hell is he 5'11" and 231 lbs and not already living in the weight room? Is he all biceps and legs? Does he have a giant but?


dont know how true it is, but i read somewhere that he had a bum shoulder at the combine but chose to lift anyway

NJ-STEELER
04-28-2012, 09:30 AM
That is a really good point.. hope he is motivated. Maybe he will defer his signing bonus for a year until he gets 25 reps :)
..........

Ha

steelerkeylargo
04-28-2012, 10:19 AM
dont know how true it is, but i read somewhere that he had a bum shoulder at the combine but chose to lift anyway

That is true. Suffered a deep bone bruise in one of the all-star games.

DukieBoy
04-28-2012, 10:31 AM
:Agree I cant wait to see what guys we pick up tomorrow!
​Chadman already knows. Check in with him.

steelblood
04-28-2012, 10:34 AM
Looks like Spence will start as a special teams player and back up Timmons at the Mack, with Sylvester Stevenson backing up Foote at the buck, at least to start:

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Third-Round-Press-Conference-Transcript/de9c9668-0dff-43cb-bc67-5d69eda3e6cc

This isn't my favorite pick, but Butler makes the point that he is about the same size as Farrior.

My problem with Butler's comments is that he first says that Spence is about the same size as farrior and then he says that Spence is too small to play Farrior's position. WHAT?!

Why use a third round pick for an inside linebacker that can only play one position for which we already have a competent, young long-term starter and a backup?

DukieBoy
04-28-2012, 10:36 AM
Love the pick. He's got the quickness we have sorely lacked with Foote and Farrior.

some of you are way too focused on the bench numbers...... like they will never improve.

Trust me, strength is one thing that can be trained into a player, and who better to show the way than James Harrison.
Now, if we can get a bridge footer to play NT in front of him, it will be great.

NJ-STEELER
04-28-2012, 10:37 AM
Suffered a deep bone bruise .


thats what she said



PS. thanks for confirming

Chadman
04-28-2012, 10:47 AM
if anyone has a good memory think back to Chadman's big thread where he covered all the bases. One post had to do with schools the Steelers have picked players from. This aroused my curiousity so I went to profootball-reference and was looking at all the players drafted from various colleges. After a bit I concluded there was no significant leanings and it was really a random thing.

Thanks for remembering! While the schools themselves are very random, the one thing Chadman found was common Conferences- Big 10, Big 12, SEC & ACC completely dominated the Steelers first 2 selections of every draft involving Mike Tomlin. Now, DeCastro has put a spanner in that as he played PAC 12, but as a caveat, they didn't think he would be available & target #2 Danta Hightower came from..SEC. Mike Adams- BIG 10.

Steel Life
04-28-2012, 10:53 AM
The strange thing is that Spence - who is supposed to be an ultra-athlete - had a terrible combine...bench, cone, you name it. I just worry about his lack of size, just like I worried about Carter's lack of size last year. At LB there are gonna be times you just have to be able hold the point of attack & I just see Spence as getting engulfed. But in the passing game nowadays, maybe this is what we're transitioning to.

That being said...if they had chosen Lamar Miller in the 3rd, I would've been ecstactic...& when the pick was announced as being from Miami I was all jacked & then blah............

Chadman
04-28-2012, 10:59 AM
The strange thing is that Spence - who is supposed to be an ultra-athlete - had a terrible combine...bench, cone, you name it. I just worry about his lack of size, just like I worried about Carter's lack of size last year. At LB there are gonna be times you just have to be able hold the point of attack & I just see Spence as getting engulfed. But in the passing game nowadays, maybe this is what we're transitioning to.

That being said...if they had chosen Lamar Miller in the 3rd, I would've been ecstactic...& when the pick was announced as being from Miami I was all jacked & then blah............

The key with a smaller LB is to keep him clean- Butler even semi-said that in the interview. Best way to keep him clean is get a big old lane clogging NT like Josh Chapman or Alemeda Ta'amu & watch Spence find the gaps in the OL- which is more his specialty.

Mick'sTeam
04-28-2012, 11:04 AM
While he may not have the prototypical size, Spence seems to have phenomenal instincts and anticipation. The more I see from him on the field, the more I like him. I'll take game footage over combine workouts anyday.

NorCal-Steeler
04-28-2012, 11:24 AM
They said Ray Lewis was small too not that this guy will ever be like Lewis. That being said he wont see the feild this year anyhow so he has time to bulk up. I like the pick, its a gamble but im sure the 1st two picks are sure things so why not...

grotonsteel
04-28-2012, 11:24 AM
While he may not have the prototypical size, Spence seems to have phenomenal instincts and anticipation. The more I see from him on the field, the more I like him. I'll take game footage over combine workouts anyday.

+1

I was not so excited with this pick but after watching some highlights i think he has a potential to become Troy P of Linebackers. He looks like heat seeking missile. I will take game production over combine anyday.

He will definitely have to get stronger but i don't think its a major issue.

Also i don't believe he will be engulfed by OGs. If OGs are reaching second-level consistently then its an issue with your D-line not ILB. As long as he can bring down RB/TE i am happy with this pick.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-28-2012, 11:49 AM
Hopefully there is a NT left this round cause Hood is not going to command doubleteams. Big Snack rarely did last year either. The kid from Canada got picked so there are only a few true 3-4NT types left.

Dee Dub
04-28-2012, 12:12 PM
Nobody has injected the age-old (at least since Tomlin has been here) 3-4/4-3 debate? Spence isn't a 3-4 ILB, not with a 11 rep bench press. He's also not a Safety. He is fast and talented, and he would seem to fit very well as a 4-3 OLB.

The Steelers dont agree with you. In the Post-Gazette today Kevin Butler is quoted as saying he will play next season behind Lawrence Timmons.

Keyplay1
04-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Other teams are reaching...

If overdrafting is "being bold", I'll stick with being conservative...

Really cannot disagree with that since usually I go for the conservative approach also. But, in the few instances where the "reach" pays off then it could be considered a bold, courageous blah blah etc------Unfortunately in many cases the move is not a good one then of course it was stupid and worthless.

Anyhow I have been seeing a lot of posters bringing up the Steelers not so hot later rd drafting. Maybe a little more risk would help.[Truth is the Steelers later rd picks are probably as good as or even better than most but we fans just expect more]

I actually like this 3rd pick and see the player easily transitioning to the 3-4 ILB position but I would have reached a little further and taken Nigel Bradham who also will easily transition to the 3-4 ILB slot. These ranking are very arbitrary and only future results will tell the story. Probably both players will be decent pros. One of the main reasons I like Bradham is in one of his interviews he reminded me a lot of Earl Holmes a 4th rd pick that turned out very well. Holmes was really very funny and always had some hilarious remarks. This Bradham is the same way. He would have fit in quite nicely with JH and LM.

Many fans would be surprised to hear those two LB's go at it on some of the local tv sports shows. You would think you were watching the Comedy channel it was that funny and good. If anyone doesn't think these great football players do not have any other dimensions they are wrong.

What time does that draft stuff start? Let's get it on!

Dee Dub
04-28-2012, 12:24 PM
Some of you guys focusing on his size and lack of strength are ignoring the fact that in the past two seasons this kid had over 100 solo tackles and 31 tackles for loss. Regardless of what he isnt, he is getting it done. Either he was being kept clean at Miami or he flat out just didnt need it.

Keyplay1
04-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Oh crap! I forgot it started early today. I see Bradham is gone. The Bills took him. Oh well, at least not all is lost. I can see him giving Tom Brady fits. At least that is a plus.

hawaiiansteel
04-30-2012, 01:49 AM
The somewhat surprising selection of the sorta small Sean Spence

Friday, 27 April 2012 22:47
Written by Dan Gigler

543

If the Steelers' selection of University of Miami linebacker Sean Spence in the third round had you scratching your head a bit, you weren't the only one. Though he played OLB at "The U" he will be an inside backer in Pittsburgh. Despite a need at that position with the release of James Farrior (and the heir apparent to him being the long-toothed 10-year vet Larry Foote) there were (and still are) a number of good NT prospects on the board, perhaps a position of higher need given its importance in the 34 scheme the Steelers run and the advanced career age of the great Casey Hampton.

Nonetheless, reports on Spence are very positive, if for one caveat: he's undersized and possibly understrong. He's only 5'11 and 230 pounds and he only hit twelve reps of 225 on the bench press of the combine. That is ... not good if you intend to successfully shed NFL-blockers, but he attributed that to a bum shoulder at the time. He is said to have an excellent football IQ.

Interestingly, in the rich-albeit-often-checkered history of Miami football, he is the first Miami Hurricane to be drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers since Leon Searcy in 1992. (as best the crack research team of myself and my boss Jerry Micco can tell)

Excerpts of what the experts say about Spence:

NFL.com: "Mayock's take: "One of my favorite football players on tape. He's one of the more instinctive linebackers in this draft. In the 3-4 scheme in Pittsburgh, he's going to have to play outside or that Will linebacker inside. Either way, I don't care, because I really like the way he plays.""

CBS/NFLDraftScout: Spence does everything he can to overcome lack of natural size and strength. He is already a coach on the field -- something teams may note for the future -- and shows amazing recognition skills that result from intense film analysis. Athletically, he reads and reacts quickly without wasted steps. Spence is not fooled often by play-action, and shows above average skills as a pass defender.

Pete Prisco of CBS gave Pittsburgh a B- for the Spence pick: "You watch how good he is on special teams and maybe eventually works his way onto the field. He's small, but fast."

Mocking the Draft: "Strengths: Spence has excellent athleticism, speed, and lateral quickness that he uses well to make plays on the football. He is very good at diagnosing plays then reacts quickly with his aggressive attacking style. He is rarely out of position even against play-action passes. He gives great effort and hustles to make the wrap up tackles, though not great, but is good enough to get the ball carrier to the ground. ... Weaknesses: He is a bit undersized and can get engulfed by offensive lineman against the run. He can be too aggressive at times attacking the hole and allowing the running back cutback lanes. He does not have many pass rush moves blitzing from the outsides and can be stood up at the line of scrimmage. Needs to get stronger and bigger without losing his speed and burst."

National Football Post (which scouts Spence at OLB): "Impression: A gifted sideline-to-sideline athlete who can play in space and make plays off his frame. Size is a concern, but looks like a starter in a cover two scheme who can play three downs in the NFL."

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/...14-sean-spence (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/34014-sean-spence)

Discipline of Steel
04-30-2012, 06:51 AM
The somewhat surprising selection of the sorta small Sean Spence

Friday, 27 April 2012 22:47
Written by Dan Gigler

543

If the Steelers' selection of University of Miami linebacker Sean Spence in the third round had you scratching your head a bit, you weren't the only one. Though he played OLB at "The U" he will be an inside backer in Pittsburgh. Despite a need at that position with the release of James Farrior (and the heir apparent to him being the long-toothed 10-year vet Larry Foote) there were (and still are) a number of good NT prospects on the board, perhaps a position of higher need given its importance in the 34 scheme the Steelers run and the advanced career age of the great Casey Hampton.

Nonetheless, reports on Spence are very positive, if for one caveat: he's undersized and possibly understrong. He's only 5'11 and 230 pounds and he only hit twelve reps of 225 on the bench press of the combine. That is ... not good if you intend to successfully shed NFL-blockers, but he attributed that to a bum shoulder at the time. He is said to have an excellent football IQ.

Interestingly, in the rich-albeit-often-checkered history of Miami football, he is the first Miami Hurricane to be drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers since Leon Searcy in 1992. (as best the crack research team of myself and my boss Jerry Micco can tell)

Excerpts of what the experts say about Spence:

NFL.com: "Mayock's take: "One of my favorite football players on tape. He's one of the more instinctive linebackers in this draft. In the 3-4 scheme in Pittsburgh, he's going to have to play outside or that Will linebacker inside. Either way, I don't care, because I really like the way he plays.""

CBS/NFLDraftScout: Spence does everything he can to overcome lack of natural size and strength. He is already a coach on the field -- something teams may note for the future -- and shows amazing recognition skills that result from intense film analysis. Athletically, he reads and reacts quickly without wasted steps. Spence is not fooled often by play-action, and shows above average skills as a pass defender.

Pete Prisco of CBS gave Pittsburgh a B- for the Spence pick: "You watch how good he is on special teams and maybe eventually works his way onto the field. He's small, but fast."

Mocking the Draft: "Strengths: Spence has excellent athleticism, speed, and lateral quickness that he uses well to make plays on the football. He is very good at diagnosing plays then reacts quickly with his aggressive attacking style. He is rarely out of position even against play-action passes. He gives great effort and hustles to make the wrap up tackles, though not great, but is good enough to get the ball carrier to the ground. ... Weaknesses: He is a bit undersized and can get engulfed by offensive lineman against the run. He can be too aggressive at times attacking the hole and allowing the running back cutback lanes. He does not have many pass rush moves blitzing from the outsides and can be stood up at the line of scrimmage. Needs to get stronger and bigger without losing his speed and burst."

National Football Post (which scouts Spence at OLB): "Impression: A gifted sideline-to-sideline athlete who can play in space and make plays off his frame. Size is a concern, but looks like a starter in a cover two scheme who can play three downs in the NFL."

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/...14-sean-spence (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/34014-sean-spence)

PlanetSteelers.com Discipline of Steel: Undersized leader on the field, the guy just makes plays. Roaming sideline to sideline wreaking havoc on opposing ballcarriers, its all about heart. Sounds a little bit like another 'undersized' former Steeler MLB...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-30-2012, 10:43 AM
I don't know how everyone can be excited about Spence. Probably all the guys who wanted Hightower and don't like the smaller run & hit guys. I saw what the Steelers saw on tape. I went back after the pick and dug in. The 6' 230+ frame had me pass him over...Like many predraft. Instincts? Kuechley was the only one I can say was better....And the margain is small. He really looks good at diagnosing plays and not taking false steps. He seems to not be phased on PA. He plays fast & hard. Surprisngly he isn't a wrap up tackler. He brings it. Not afraid to step up in the hole. He plays on or behind the LOS. In comparison to Hightower, opposite. Hightower relied on his strength & bulk and read the plays off the LOS. Spence uses his instincts and shoots gaps and takes proper angles to keep himself clean. He also looks the part in coverage. A "sudden" ILB in the box...When he sees it..He is gone. He will be groomed fo Mack as Timmons slides to Buck. Spences skill set seems to me...Will be a very good fit from the Mack. When you have an instinctive Mack who has his athleticism...He will be able to shoot gaps and under cut OL blocks and keep himself clean. It is very difficult to read that on the run for an OL and you can't draw up a counter on the sideline on a chalk board. When you get the interior OL guessing on the backside...You will create penetration from your NT and get OL ariving late of combinations. The key will be Ta'Amu's development at the NT. If he can give you what Hampton gave this team for all these years...Spence will be a deadly tandum with Timmons. A year on STs & learning Mack...2 offseason of NFL weightroom and training...I can only imagine. I have seen someone on the college level who compared to him that I had interest in years back. Spence may be a little more "sudden" but I think it is a fair comparison. If he pans out to be anything close to him...We have a steal. Zach Thomas.

steelblood
04-30-2012, 11:41 AM
I don't know how everyone can be excited about Spence. Probably all the guys who wanted Hightower and don't like the smaller run & hit guys. I saw what the Steelers saw on tape. I went back after the pick and dug in. The 6' 230+ frame had me pass him over...Like many predraft. Instincts? Kuechley was the only one I can say was better....And the margain is small. He really looks good at diagnosing plays and not taking false steps. He seems to not be phased on PA. He plays fast & hard. Surprisngly he isn't a wrap up tackler. He brings it. Not afraid to step up in the hole. He plays on or behind the LOS. In comparison to Hightower, opposite. Hightower relied on his strength & bulk and read the plays off the LOS. Spence uses his instincts and shoots gaps and takes proper angles to keep himself clean. He also looks the part in coverage. A "sudden" ILB in the box...When he sees it..He is gone. He will be groomed fo Mack as Timmons slides to Buck. Spences skill set seems to me...Will be a very good fit from the Mack. When you have an instinctive Mack who has his athleticism...He will be able to shoot gaps and under cut OL blocks and keep himself clean. It is very difficult to read that on the run for an OL and you can't draw up a counter on the sideline on a chalk board. When you get the interior OL guessing on the backside...You will create penetration from your NT and get OL ariving late of combinations. The key will be Ta'Amu's development at the NT. If he can give you what Hampton gave this team for all these years...Spence will be a deadly tandum with Timmons. A year on STs & learning Mack...2 offseason of NFL weightroom and training...I can only imagine. I have seen someone on the college level who compared to him that I had interest in years back. Spence may be a little more "sudden" but I think it is a fair comparison. If he pans out to be anything close to him...We have a steal. Zach Thomas.

I love the way he plays. But, he played this season at about 218 and looked like a strong safety. He bulked up for the combine and ran a moderately disappointing 4.71. I'm not sure he can hold that weight, let alone bulk up any more.

phillyesq
04-30-2012, 11:54 AM
In the Ta'amu thread, there is mention that the Steelers had Ta'amu graded as a late second/early third round pick. If that is the case, we can assume that they had Spence graded higher, which tells you what the coaching staff must think of him.

At first, I was very lukewarm, at best, based on his size. As I watched the highlights, I was impressed. He diagnoses and attacks quickly. At worst, he should be a great special teams player and an asset as a nickel linebacker. At best, this is a potential starter.

MeetJoeGreene
04-30-2012, 12:07 PM
I have to admit, I wasn't too thrilled with the pick intially - but I have warmed to it. This is especially true considering that we still DID get Ta'amu in the 4th. If we had flip-flopped the picks (Ta'amu in 3rd and Spence in 4th), I would have been PERFECTLY happy. So I guess that I still should be.

Slapstick
04-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Larry Foote, who also started out as a backup to the starting Mack LB, was drafted in round 4 back in '02...

Larry was 6' 1" and 231 lbs at the time...he ran a 4.83 40...

Spence is a younger, more athletic (albeit slightly shorter) Larry Foote...Larry has played a lot of games for this team and has two rings to show for it...the Steelers received pretty good value for that 4th round pick...

If they can receive similar value for Spence? I'll be ecstatic!

Mister Pittsburgh
04-30-2012, 12:25 PM
If you go back and look at the LB's that have been drafted from Tomlins first draft through this one.....you will see that we have sucked at drafting LB's the past 5 seasons.....maybe the 6th draft is the charm though. Yes, in 2007 we got Timmons and Woodley but I don't feel Timmons has ever lived up to being the dominant presence you would hope for, for being the 15th overall pick.....and Woodley can be very hit or miss. He disappears for 3 games then shows up and rips off 3 sacks. Throw in the injuries and its tough to describe him as dominant. We even had to bring back Larry Foote cause we couldn't draft and develop an ILB. And now they are talking of moving Worilds inside.

flippy
04-30-2012, 12:25 PM
Larry Foote, who also started out as a backup to the starting Mack LB, was drafted in round 4 back in '02...

Larry was 6' 1" and 231 lbs at the time...he ran a 4.83 40...

Spence is a younger, more athletic (albeit slightly shorter) Larry Foote...Larry has played a lot of games for this team and has two rings to show for it...the Steelers received pretty good value for that 4th round pick...

If they can receive similar value for Spence? I'll be ecstatic!

That's exactly who I see when I watch Spence. He plays like Foote played in college - game is all about smarts and instincts and few guys have it so naturally. He's roughly the same size. But I see a better athlete.

And I've always thought it Foote were only bigger or faster, he'd be the perfect LB. I think we got a faster Larry Foote. And the sky is the limit for this kid.

steelz09
04-30-2012, 12:30 PM
At first, I didn't know what to think about this pick but after reading so much about him and watching highlights, here is my view:

1) He's too small for LB in general, regardless of inside or outside.

2) He's not strong enough.. yet. They said he had a bum shoulder but who knows. The guy bench pressed his weight 12 times. While that isn't very good, it's not THAT bad. When Casey Hampton was close to 400 pounds do you think he could bench press his weight 12 times?

3) In regardless to #1 and #2 above, that is the least of my worries. He can get bigger... 15-20 pounds bigger. The Steelers have nutrionist, weight trainers, etc that will make sure he gains the strength & weight if they think he needs it. I'm sure James Harrison can show him a few things like he did w/ Timmons.

Now, for the positives:

Instincts, smart, aggresive, and a film room junkie. These are great attributes for a ILB. After watching him play, I can't remember the last defensive player we've taken that shows his type of instincts. Based on his tackles from behind the line of scrimmage and his highlights, he is quick to diagnose players and quick to get to the ball. When he gets to the ball, the ball carrier is tackled.

I really like what I see from this kid. He reminds me of a Timmons but Spence is a 3rd round pick and I think he is more "proven" in the college ranks than Timmons' was. In fact, I think he's a better all-around LB than Timmons was coming out.

Timmons plays fast especially in the open field. However, Timmons plays a bit out of control especially on blitzes. He can overun plays and he often gets side stepped on blitzes. Spence plays fast like Timmons and he explodes through the ball carrier like Timmons. However, after watching the tape on Spence, he almost never gets side stepped or misses tackles. It's a good sign when a player can play as fast a Spence but also be a very good tackler when he gets to the ball carrier.

I'm really starting to like this pick. His "negatives" are the easist things to fix.

04272012
04-30-2012, 12:38 PM
Waive Foote.. start Spence.. he will be a stud from day 1 :o

steelblood
04-30-2012, 12:56 PM
You can't just bulk a guy up and expect that he will maintain his athleticism.

This kid is 5'11 and played the season at 220 or slightly less. So, in his college career, he was not really the same as Larry Foote (6'1, 231). Then, Spence bulked up for the combine and ran a very average 4.71. His 3 cone was THE WORST for any linebacker at the combine. His 20 yard shuttle was also below average. There is no evidence at all to prove that he can carry this 230 pounds and still have his normal athleticism. So, the idea that he can bulk up into the 230s or more and still be the same player is very shaky to say the least.

The reality is that he may need to play in the 220 range to be the most effective. This is not the end of the world. The kid is a good football player. However, it will be a disadvantage. Teams may decide to run right at him.

steelz09
04-30-2012, 01:04 PM
You can't just bulk a guy up and expect that he will maintain his athleticism.

This kid is 5'11 and played the season at 220 or slightly less. So, in his college career, he was not really the same as Larry Foote (6'1, 231). Then, Spence bulked up for the combine and ran a very average 4.71. His 3 cone was THE WORST for any linebacker at the combine. His 20 yard shuttle was also below average. There is no evidence at all to prove that he can carry this 230 pounds and still have his normal athleticism. So, the idea that he can bulk up into the 230s or more and still be the same player is very shaky to say the least.

The reality is that he may need to play in the 220 range to be the most effective. This is not the end of the world. The kid is a good football player. However, it will be a disadvantage. Teams may decide to run right at him.

I'm not saying I don't believe you but how do you know his playing weight was below 220? Were you at his weekly weigh-in at The 'U'.

Snatch98
04-30-2012, 02:09 PM
You can't just bulk a guy up and expect that he will maintain his athleticism.

This kid is 5'11 and played the season at 220 or slightly less. So, in his college career, he was not really the same as Larry Foote (6'1, 231). Then, Spence bulked up for the combine and ran a very average 4.71. His 3 cone was THE WORST for any linebacker at the combine. His 20 yard shuttle was also below average. There is no evidence at all to prove that he can carry this 230 pounds and still have his normal athleticism. So, the idea that he can bulk up into the 230s or more and still be the same player is very shaky to say the least.

The reality is that he may need to play in the 220 range to be the most effective. This is not the end of the world. The kid is a good football player. However, it will be a disadvantage. Teams may decide to run right at him.

Yet on top of everything above Mayock said he's RARELY out of position and that he has some of the best football instincts in the entire draft. If he's never out of position and has tremendous football instincts he's going to be where he needs to be and therefore his speed matters a whole lot less. He also looks like a heat seeking missile on game tape. The combine isn't always the most accurate way to rate a player. Loved this pick and so did Mayock who i trust more than any other analyst in the game.

steelblood
04-30-2012, 02:19 PM
I'm not saying I don't believe you but how do you know his playing weight was below 220? Were you at his weekly weigh-in at The 'U'.

He played much of his career at about 212 (according to Walter Football and others). He tried to bulk up a bit last offseason. But, even then he was in the low 220s at best (this is pretty well agreed upon). Then, he packed on another 10 pounds or so for the combine and obviously didn't run as fast. This is a small framed guy who probably plays best at a lighter weight. Predraft, some speculated that he may be better off playing SS at 215 than trying to be a pro linebacker.

I'm not trying to pee in your cheerios. But, the evidence suggests that this kid may not be able to play as effectively at 231 as he could at 220. It certainly follows that asking him to get even bigger and maintain his quickness and COD is a tall order (no pun intended). So, considering that your idea of....

"He can get bigger... 15-20 pounds bigger. The Steelers have nutrionist, weight trainers, etc that will make sure he gains the strength & weight if they think he needs it. I'm sure James Harrison can show him a few things like he did w/ Timmons."

would result in him bulking up to 245-250, I simply think this is almost definitely going to negate most of what we like about the kid. I do believe that the training staff MAY be able to get him in better shape and that he MAY be able to play well at 230 or close to it. But, that is likely about where he tops out. He has a short thinner frame for a linebacker. There is only so much you can add.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-30-2012, 02:22 PM
You can't just bulk a guy up and expect that he will maintain his athleticism.

This kid is 5'11 and played the season at 220 or slightly less. So, in his college career, he was not really the same as Larry Foote (6'1, 231). Then, Spence bulked up for the combine and ran a very average 4.71. His 3 cone was THE WORST for any linebacker at the combine. His 20 yard shuttle was also below average. There is no evidence at all to prove that he can carry this 230 pounds and still have his normal athleticism. So, the idea that he can bulk up into the 230s or more and still be the same player is very shaky to say the least.

The reality is that he may need to play in the 220 range to be the most effective. This is not the end of the world. The kid is a good football player. However, it will be a disadvantage. Teams may decide to run right at him.

Farrior played his last 3 or 4 years at 230. A player knows what he feels best at. If Spence's playing weight is 225...So be it. Whatever he played at in college is where I would want him. He can add muscle in the weight room and speed training will keep actually increase his explosiveness. If he played at 220-225...5-10 pounds of muscle to a frame with NFL caliber training will make a player faster. I would estimate the "finish product" in 2 years will be in the 235 range and he will be a missile.

As far as his measurables...Spence re-did his 3 cone at his proday and came in at 7.08 which is very respectable. Put that against the 20 who ran at the combine only 7 bettered that time. His 20 yard shuttle was a 4.28. Out of the 20 who ran only 6 scored better. 28 LBs ran at the combine and 10 ran faster. He wasn't elite by any stretch but there isn't anything to suggest he is a below average athlete based on his measurables. If you are comparing him to Kendricks, Kendricks looks like a pretty special athlete. On the field, Kendricks put up 105TT/14TFL in 2011 & 65TT/14.5TFL in 2010. Spence put up 106TT/14TFL in 2011 & 111TT/13TFL in 2010. Both productive on the field.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-30-2012, 02:25 PM
.. start Spence.. he will be a stud from day 1 :o
Please don't make a guarantee on that... :)

steelz09
04-30-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm sorry but I don't care what "Walter Football and Others" say. That's as much "insight" as me watching the guy play and predicting his weight. While I do think he looks small, I'm not going to predict his playing weight based on walter football.

He will probably lose some speed if he gains 10-15 pounds... Timmons probably lost speed when he bulked up.

I also don't care if a guy is .10, .20, or even .30 slower in the 40 compared to other LBs in this draft. If you have instincts, if you can "sniff" out plays, if you take good angles, you will beat that "faster guy in shorts" to the ball carrier every time. I'm glad the Steelers based this pick off of production rather than "times in shorts".

This pick truly shows that the Steelers value production on the field instead of workout warriors. Spence didn't only produce at UM, he was a leader, intelligent, instinctive, hard worker, and a "film room" junkie. He is undersized undersized and underrated and he will want to prove the doubters wrong. Almost reminds me of a A. Brown situation. If the combine only tested leadership, instincts, and football intelligence maybe people would give this kid more of a shot.

steelblood
04-30-2012, 02:56 PM
Farrior played his last 3 or 4 years at 230. A player knows what he feels best at. If Spence's playing weight is 225...So be it. Whatever he played at in college is where I would want him. He can add muscle in the weight room and speed training will keep actually increase his explosiveness. If he played at 220-225...5-10 pounds of muscle to a frame with NFL caliber training will make a player faster. I would estimate the "finish product" in 2 years will be in the 235 range and he will be a missile.

As far as his measurables...Spence re-did his 3 cone at his proday and came in at 7.08 which is very respectable. Put that against the 20 who ran at the combine only 7 bettered that time. His 20 yard shuttle was a 4.28. Out of the 20 who ran only 6 scored better. 28 LBs ran at the combine and 10 ran faster. He wasn't elite by any stretch but there isn't anything to suggest he is a below average athlete based on his measurables. If you are comparing him to Kendricks, Kendricks looks like a pretty special athlete. On the field, Kendricks put up 105TT/14TFL in 2011 & 65TT/14.5TFL in 2010. Spence put up 106TT/14TFL in 2011 & 111TT/13TFL in 2010. Both productive on the field.

I disagree with a bit of that second paragraph and you misrepresented my point a bit. My point is that he IS an elite athlete and should have tested more similarly to Kendricks (especially given that Spence is even more reliant on his athleticism than Kendricks since he is smaller), but his added weight appeared to have sapped some of that. You are talking about a guy whose whole game is based on speed, COD, and quickness. He took the tests like everyone else (in a fair and controlled environment) and did poorly. Average-ish 40 and shuttle, and LAST in the 3 cone. Obviously, he was nowhere near elite. I saw he improved his numbers at his pro day. But, virtually every player improves their numbers at their pro day. The numbers we get from the prodays are erratic, sometimes inflated, unofficial and not particularly reliable. Now, I generally don't put too much stock in the combine. But, when I see player play like a missile in games and then run like that at the combine, it is a red flag that the weight added between the season and the combine MAY be too much for him to handle.

My point here is not that the kid is hopeless, far from it. But, I can't really see him playing at 245 or 250 like the steelz09 suggested.

Even the 235 that you suggest may be difficult given his frame and the evidence we have.

In the end, I just hope he can be effective wether he plays at 225 or 235.

Slapstick
04-30-2012, 03:02 PM
Farrior played his last 3 or 4 years at 230. A player knows what he feels best at. If Spence's playing weight is 225...So be it. Whatever he played at in college is where I would want him. He can add muscle in the weight room and speed training will keep actually increase his explosiveness. If he played at 220-225...5-10 pounds of muscle to a frame with NFL caliber training will make a player faster. I would estimate the "finish product" in 2 years will be in the 235 range and he will be a missile.

As far as his measurables...Spence re-did his 3 cone at his proday and came in at 7.08 which is very respectable. Put that against the 20 who ran at the combine only 7 bettered that time. His 20 yard shuttle was a 4.28. Out of the 20 who ran only 6 scored better. 28 LBs ran at the combine and 10 ran faster. He wasn't elite by any stretch but there isn't anything to suggest he is a below average athlete based on his measurables. If you are comparing him to Kendricks, Kendricks looks like a pretty special athlete. On the field, Kendricks put up 105TT/14TFL in 2011 & 65TT/14.5TFL in 2010. Spence put up 106TT/14TFL in 2011 & 111TT/13TFL in 2010. Both productive on the field.

By way of comparison, Larry Foote recorded 84TT/19TFL in 2000 and 82TT/26TFL in 2001...I think the Steelers see another Larry Foote in Spence and that is just fine with me...

steelz09
04-30-2012, 03:25 PM
By way of comparison, Larry Foote recorded 84TT/19TFL in 2000 and 82TT/26TFL in 2001...I think the Steelers see another Larry Foote in Spence and that is just fine with me...

Spence's production on the field was better than Jon Beason. Granted, Beason missed 2 games but his production still was well short of what Sean Spence produced this year.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-30-2012, 04:02 PM
I disagree with a bit of that second paragraph and you misrepresented my point a bit. My point is that he IS an elite athlete and should have tested more similarly to Kendricks (especially given that Spence is even more reliant on his athleticism than Kendricks since he is smaller), but his added weight appeared to have sapped some of that. You are talking about a guy whose whole game is based on speed, COD, and quickness. He took the tests like everyone else (in a fair and controlled environment) and did poorly. Average-ish 40 and shuttle, and LAST in the 3 cone. Obviously, he was nowhere near elite. I saw he improved his numbers at his pro day. But, virtually every player improves their numbers at their pro day. The numbers we get from the prodays are erratic, sometimes inflated, unofficial and not particularly reliable. Now, I generally don't put too much stock in the combine. But, when I see player play like a missile in games and then run like that at the combine, it is a red flag that the weight added between the season and the combine MAY be too much for him to handle.

My point here is not that the kid is hopeless, far from it. But, I can't really see him playing at 245 or 250 like the steelz09 suggested.

Even the 235 that you suggest may be difficult given his frame and the evidence we have.

In the end, I just hope he can be effective wether he plays at 225 or 235.

We will have to agree to disagree. There wasn't anything Spence did at the combine that would put his performance in the "poorly" description. He looked good in position drills and had a 10 yard split of 1.59. He only bettered his 3 cone on his proday. The only other drill he did was the 20 yard shuttle and he actually came in a little slower than combine.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d8283478f/NFL-daily-update-April-10?continuous=true

The transition the body takes from college to NFL is significant. You may see a 5-10 pound difference on paper but the body fat % decrease to added muscle is where the impact is felt. I'm not at all concerned. To have an argument about what a kids best playing weight who is coming into the NFL is a non issue until it comes from his mouth. If he says he played 2011 at 220 and weighed in at the combine at 231...Then you could assume his numbers were impacted. Regardless of that, the numbers were not poor by any stretch. You could also assume a kid could obtain a muscle/conditioning transformation in his first two years that will have a significant impact on his athletic ability. No matter what weight he played at in college..He was productive. Now he will have to make the transition to the next level and grow to compete. 230 at the combine may not be 230 in two years. I think his playing weight will be in the 230s and he will be all over the field. He is put togther right now...I can't wait to see what NFL strength & conditioning coaches will do with him.

544



If you recall, Timmons was 6'0 3/4" and 234 coming out. Timmons ran a 4.66 but Spence's 20 yard shuttle was better. More important is the transformation Timmons body went through. Timmons said he weighed 245 last season. He is not the same player he was when he came in as a rookie. He is also more explosive than he was his rookie year. I really think the weight issue is moot. The guy was productive on the field and 10 pounds isn't going to be an issue.

hawaiiansteel
04-30-2012, 04:13 PM
Adams, Spence get familiar with Steelers

By the Tribune-Review

Published: Saturday, April 28, 2012


Second-round draft pick Mike Adams and third-round pick Sean Spence met with Steelers coaches Saturday afternoon and got acclimated to their new workplace.

The Steelers had a need for an inside linebacker like Spence in this year’s draft, but the former Miami (Fla.) standout will play primarily on special teams his rookie season, barring an injury.

The Steelers will have Spence learn both inside linebacker positions and back up Lawrence Timmons, with Larry Foote taking over for James Farrior at left inside linebacker and Stevenson Sylvester backing him up. Foote will serve as the defense’s quarterback, just as Farrior had for years before the Steelers released him in March.

“Larry Foote knows this defense inside out,” linebackers coach Keith Butler said.

Butler said he needs to see more from Sylvester before deciding whether he is the long-term answer at Farrior’s old position. Butler also said the Steelers will look at Jason Worilds at inside linebacker during offseason practices, although “right now we need him outside.”

The 5-foot-11, 231-pound Spence may not be in the Steelers’ immediate plans at linebacker, but they decided he was too good of a prospect to pass on in the third round.

“You watch his tape, the guy’s read and react is exceptional,” coach Mike Tomlin said. “That helps him compensate for some of the deficiencies he has in size and length. He is aggressive and he’s tough, and he encompasses a lot of football character things that we value.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1108559-85/steelers-linebacker-inside-rainey-round-spence-butler-rookie-pick-coach#ixzz1tR6J0g2B

Shawn
04-30-2012, 05:02 PM
4.56 may have been his pro day numbers.

NJ-STEELER
04-30-2012, 06:40 PM
i thought that too

but orien harris played at the U IIRC

steelblood
04-30-2012, 10:48 PM
We will have to agree to disagree. There wasn't anything Spence did at the combine that would put his performance in the "poorly" description. He looked good in position drills and had a 10 yard split of 1.59. He only bettered his 3 cone on his proday. The only other drill he did was the 20 yard shuttle and he actually came in a little slower than combine.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d8283478f/NFL-daily-update-April-10?continuous=true

The transition the body takes from college to NFL is significant. You may see a 5-10 pound difference on paper but the body fat % decrease to added muscle is where the impact is felt. I'm not at all concerned. To have an argument about what a kids best playing weight who is coming into the NFL is a non issue until it comes from his mouth. If he says he played 2011 at 220 and weighed in at the combine at 231...Then you could assume his numbers were impacted. Regardless of that, the numbers were not poor by any stretch. You could also assume a kid could obtain a muscle/conditioning transformation in his first two years that will have a significant impact on his athletic ability. No matter what weight he played at in college..He was productive. Now he will have to make the transition to the next level and grow to compete. 230 at the combine may not be 230 in two years. I think his playing weight will be in the 230s and he will be all over the field. He is put togther right now...I can't wait to see what NFL strength & conditioning coaches will do with him.

544



If you recall, Timmons was 6'0 3/4" and 234 coming out. Timmons ran a 4.66 but Spence's 20 yard shuttle was better. More important is the transformation Timmons body went through. Timmons said he weighed 245 last season. He is not the same player he was when he came in as a rookie. He is also more explosive than he was his rookie year. I really think the weight issue is moot. The guy was productive on the field and 10 pounds isn't going to be an issue.

From a testing standpoint, a guy like Spence should have had a great combine. I thought he looked decent in the drills, but his numbers were nothing like the way he plays. It could be a red flag or it could have been a bad day. I hear what you are saying about weight gain and body fat. But, a man's frame has a lot to do with how much weight/mass he can carry. To me, Spence has a thin frame for a linebacker (he looks like a safety). Again, I'm not predicting his demise. Far from it. I'm only saying he may need to play at a lighter weight to keep his speed and quickness. This could make it tough for him at the POA. It is only a concern. I'm glad you aren't worried. I'm not losing any sleep over it either.

steelblood
04-30-2012, 11:02 PM
I'm sorry but I don't care what "Walter Football and Others" say. That's as much "insight" as me watching the guy play and predicting his weight. While I do think he looks small, I'm not going to predict his playing weight based on walter football.

He will probably lose some speed if he gains 10-15 pounds... Timmons probably lost speed when he bulked up.

I also don't care if a guy is .10, .20, or even .30 slower in the 40 compared to other LBs in this draft. If you have instincts, if you can "sniff" out plays, if you take good angles, you will beat that "faster guy in shorts" to the ball carrier every time. I'm glad the Steelers based this pick off of production rather than "times in shorts".

This pick truly shows that the Steelers value production on the field instead of workout warriors. Spence didn't only produce at UM, he was a leader, intelligent, instinctive, hard worker, and a "film room" junkie. He is undersized undersized and underrated and he will want to prove the doubters wrong. Almost reminds me of a A. Brown situation. If the combine only tested leadership, instincts, and football intelligence maybe people would give this kid more of a shot.

It is pretty well documented that he is a lighter linebacker who played in the 220 range. I didn't "predict [something] based on Walter Football". I don't even know what that means. Further, I'm sorry I don't have time to look everything up and give you specifics. But, even the Miami press guide for this season has him at 6' 224. And, we all know press guides are notorious for being liberal with heights and weights (many players were much smaller when officially measured at the Senior Bowl and combine). Finally, I'm not saying his combine has anything to do with the way he plays. However, some of the tests showed less speed and quickness than I expected. Maybe it was the weight he put on. Even Mayock said he bulked up for the combine. I didn't make his weight up. Why would I do that? I don't really have a reputation as someone who makes things up. I don't really like the implication.

He is a smaller framed guy whose game is speed and quickness, and he very likely will not be able to carry the 245-250 pounds that you suggested. I really don't think that is such an unbelievable contention.

steelz09
05-01-2012, 01:02 PM
It is pretty well documented that he is a lighter linebacker who played in the 220 range. I didn't "predict [something] based on Walter Football". I don't even know what that means. Further, I'm sorry I don't have time to look everything up and give you specifics. But, even the Miami press guide for this season has him at 6' 224. And, we all know press guides are notorious for being liberal with heights and weights (many players were much smaller when officially measured at the Senior Bowl and combine). Finally, I'm not saying his combine has anything to do with the way he plays. However, some of the tests showed less speed and quickness than I expected. Maybe it was the weight he put on. Even Mayock said he bulked up for the combine. I didn't make his weight up. Why would I do that? I don't really have a reputation as someone who makes things up. I don't really like the implication.

He is a smaller framed guy whose game is speed and quickness, and he very likely will not be able to carry the 245-250 pounds that you suggested. I really don't think that is such an unbelievable contention.

Again, I wasn't calling you a liar... don't be so sensitive. I agree that he didn't look like he was 230-something but I don't know that for a fact and neither does anyone else on this board. It's nothing more than a theory.

In the meantime, I'm hoping Spence turns out like Jon Beason. Beason has about the same "frame" and he turned out just fine.

Spence ran a faster 40 time than Beason.

Spence had significantly more tackles than Beason had during his last year at the U. Spence also had double the amount of tackles from behind the line of scrimmage. Granted, Beason lost 2 games to injury but realistically, he still wouldn't have come close to the amount of tackles that Spence had.

Beason chose not to perform agility tests at the combine.

Makes you wonder if Spence would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder if he chose not to perform his agility tests like Beason.

BigRob
05-01-2012, 02:40 PM
From a testing standpoint, a guy like Spence should have had a great combine. I thought he looked decent in the drills, but his numbers were nothing like the way he plays. It could be a red flag or it could have been a bad day. I hear what you are saying about weight gain and body fat. But, a man's frame has a lot to do with how much weight/mass he can carry. To me, Spence has a thin frame for a linebacker (he looks like a safety). Again, I'm not predicting his demise. Far from it. I'm only saying he may need to play at a lighter weight to keep his speed and quickness. This could make it tough for him at the POA. It is only a concern. I'm glad you aren't worried. I'm not losing any sleep over it either.

Wexell has stated that Farrior's playing weight was 220 most years and it didn't seem to be a problem for him. I don't think weight is everything for a linebacker to play well in the middle.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-01-2012, 03:00 PM
I can understand the concerns. I think you put tape first if there is very good college production and questionable measurables. In contrast...There was the big discussion in here with Poe. Average production with elite measurables. Big difference with Poe is he played a support position and alot of times they show up average with low stats. Opinion on production varies and we see what a combine workout earns him.

Another discussion has surfaced in here before. Many prospects visit the training complexes to build for combine. We have heard the discussion of the laser 40 and what a simple takeoff technique could do to your 40 time. Some players really focus on the measureables because they don't have the tape they would like. Spence even made mention that he should have skipped playing football and just trained for the combine when the reports spread about his stock may be slipping because he didn't run in the 4.5's at the combine.

I think his frame is good at the 235 mark. He looked good there at the combine. The make-up of 235 will be a bit different with a couple training camps & offseasons. He will probably be around that 4-5% transformation. So if his optimum playing weight is 220-225 the finished product will be around 235. Nothing wrong with that weight IMO.

We see productive players in college having disappointing combines all the time. To me, Spence didn't have a terrible combine...A disappointing one...He just looked faster on tape than he timed. Some players fall off when you add 12 pounds to their frame on gameday. Gamespeed can't be measured.

Remember this guy:
WR5'10" 186
4.56 40
1.56 10 yard split
13 reps
33 1/2 vert
8' 9" Broad
4.18 20 shuttle
6.98 3 cone

At the combine, only 8 out of the 34 who ran were slower. In the other categories, there were less than 10 who measured worse every time.
He had tremendous college production.
Receiving-305/3199(10.5 AVG) 22 TDS
Rushing-70/540(7.7 AVG) 4 TDS
Punt Returns-52/817 (15.7 AVG) 3 TDS
Kick Returns-113/2612(23.1 AVG) 2 TDS

We all know what he looked like Gameday day 1. That was Antonio Brown. Brown's training regimen during his offseasons has made him an elite athlete. He has been more explosive this past year than his rookie season. That is the strides you hope Spence will take. Dedicated athletes all makes those strides. We have seen them before our eyes. If Spence fine tunes his body and his college production translates to the NFL game because of it..Imagine what he could be. Let's just hope we witness it. I am pretty confident in 2 years the word "wow" will be in sentences containing his name after watching his game.

hawaiiansteel
05-01-2012, 03:06 PM
I can understand the concerns. I think you put tape first if there is very good college production and questionable measurables. In contrast...There was the big discussion in here with Poe. Average production with elite measurables. Big difference with Poe is he played a support position and alot of times they show up average with low stats. Opinion on production varies and we see what a combine workout earns him. Another discussion has surfaced in here before. Many prospects visit the training complexes to build for combine. We have heard the discussion of the laser 40 and what a simple takeoff technique could do to your 40 time. Some players really focus on the measureables because they don't have the tape they would like. Spence even made mention that he should have skipped playing football and just trained for the combine when the reports spread about his stock may be slipping because he didn't run in the 4.5's at the combine. I think his frame is good at the 235 mark. He looked good there at the combine. The make-up of 235 will be a bit different with a couple training camps & offseasons. He will probably be around that 4-5% transformation. So if his optimum playing weight is 220-225 the finished product will be around 235. Nothing wrong with that weight IMO. We see productive players in college having disappointing combines all the time. To me, Spence didn't have a terrible combine...A disappointing one...He just looked faster on tape than he timed. Some players fall off when you add 12 pounds to their frame on gameday. Gamespeed can't be measured.Remember this guy:WR5'10" 1864.56 401.56 10 yard split13 reps33 1/2 vert8' 9" Broad4.18 20 shuttle6.98 3 coneAt the combine, only 8 out of the 34 who ran were slower. In the other categories, there were less than 10 who measured worse every time.He had tremendous college production.Receiving-305/3199(10.5 AVG) 22 TDSRushing-70/540(7.7 AVG) 4 TDSPunt Returns-52/817 (15.7 AVG) 3 TDSKick Returns-113/2612(23.1 AVG) 2 TDSWe all know what he looked like Gameday day 1. That was Antonio Brown. Brown's training regimen during his offseasons has made him an elite athlete. He has been more explosive this past year than his rookie season. That is the strides you hope Spence will take. Dedicated athletes all makes those strides. We have seen them before our eyes. If Spence fine tunes his body and his college production translates to the NFL game because of it..Imagine what he could be. Let's just hope we witness it. I am pretty confident in 2 years the word "wow" will be in sentences containing his name after watching his game.


nice post JPN :Clap

steelblood
05-02-2012, 08:35 AM
JPN said, "Some players fall off when you add 12 pounds to their frame on game day." And, thus, he might not be able to carry much more weight.

I like what you've said about good weight and bad weight and hope he can make that transition. As I've said, I agree that game tape is what matters and he has plenty of it. I like him.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-02-2012, 09:25 AM
JPN said, "Some players fall off when you add 12 pounds to their frame on game day." And, thus, he might not be able to carry much more weight.

I like what you've said about good weight and bad weight and hope he can make that transition. As I've said, I agree that game tape is what matters and he has plenty of it. I like him.


Let me clarify the "12 pounds" on gameday. It is reference to the underwear olympics versus gameday. The 12 pounds isn't body weight...It is the equipment & resistance added. That is one of the factors in the transition of game speed. Everyone has that factor. Some are impacted, some aren't. Some positions feel it more. The collection of Skill positions players seem to fall off with added weight and their body type. Skill players doesn't included QB in this reference. Lineman, LBs, TEs, etc...Muscle distribution seem to have less fall off and their position isn't impacted as much if there is. That is one of the reason you see skill players without pads in their pants, no ribs pads at WR & RB, limited braces,etc. Then you see OL & DL with smaller jerseys and shoulder pads to limit what can be grabbed, make them "skinny" on the DL, and weight. If you ever want to test this theory...Run a 40 in shorts and then put a hat on & pad up. You will be amazed. This all has alot to do with game speed. The other big factor is the "paralysis by analysis" saying. Think fast...Play fast. The "think fast...play fast" is the biggest factor Spence has going for him. His athleticsm adds to it.

phillyesq
05-02-2012, 10:20 AM
Let me clarify the "12 pounds" on gameday. It is reference to the underwear olympics versus gameday. The 12 pounds isn't body weight...It is the equipment & resistance added. That is one of the factors in the transition of game speed. Everyone has that factor. Some are impacted, some aren't. Some positions feel it more. The collection of Skill positions players seem to fall off with added weight and their body type. Skill players doesn't included QB in this reference. Lineman, LBs, TEs, etc...Muscle distribution seem to have less fall off and their position isn't impacted as much if there is. That is one of the reason you see skill players without pads in their pants, no ribs pads at WR & RB, limited braces,etc. Then you see OL & DL with smaller jerseys and shoulder pads to limit what can be grabbed, make them "skinny" on the DL, and weight. If you ever want to test this theory...Run a 40 in shorts and then put a hat on & pad up. You will be amazed. This all has alot to do with game speed. The other big factor is the "paralysis by analysis" saying. Think fast...Play fast. The "think fast...play fast" is the biggest factor Spence has going for him. His athleticsm adds to it.


Good stuff in this thread JPN.

aggiebones
05-02-2012, 10:43 AM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1287756-85/steelers-draft-defensive-frederick-kiper-linebacker-unrestricted-adams-backs-board

This thread talks about him possibly being thought of as a Safety at one point. Any chance the Steelers go that route with him? We have as much need for a backup S as we do a backup ILB. Mundy can't play and we have 3 tolerable ILBs right now.

phillyesq
05-02-2012, 11:16 AM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1287756-85/steelers-draft-defensive-frederick-kiper-linebacker-unrestricted-adams-backs-board

This thread talks about him possibly being thought of as a Safety at one point. Any chance the Steelers go that route with him? We have as much need for a backup S as we do a backup ILB. Mundy can't play and we have 3 tolerable ILBs right now.

I haven't seen anywhere that the Steelers consider him to be a potential safety, and Butler said that the plan is for him to start by backing up Timmons.

MeetJoeGreene
05-02-2012, 11:16 AM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1287756-85/steelers-draft-defensive-frederick-kiper-linebacker-unrestricted-adams-backs-board

This thread talks about him possibly being thought of as a Safety at one point. Any chance the Steelers go that route with him? We have as much need for a backup S as we do a backup ILB. Mundy can't play and we have 3 tolerable ILBs right now.

I don't see him as being a Safety as a likely possibility - but I can't Guarantee it....

feltdizz
05-02-2012, 12:04 PM
Let me clarify the "12 pounds" on gameday. It is reference to the underwear olympics versus gameday. The 12 pounds isn't body weight...It is the equipment & resistance added. That is one of the factors in the transition of game speed. Everyone has that factor. Some are impacted, some aren't. Some positions feel it more. The collection of Skill positions players seem to fall off with added weight and their body type. Skill players doesn't included QB in this reference. Lineman, LBs, TEs, etc...Muscle distribution seem to have less fall off and their position isn't impacted as much if there is. That is one of the reason you see skill players without pads in their pants, no ribs pads at WR & RB, limited braces,etc. Then you see OL & DL with smaller jerseys and shoulder pads to limit what can be grabbed, make them "skinny" on the DL, and weight. If you ever want to test this theory...Run a 40 in shorts and then put a hat on & pad up. You will be amazed. This all has alot to do with game speed. The other big factor is the "paralysis by analysis" saying. Think fast...Play fast. The "think fast...play fast" is the biggest factor Spence has going for him. His athleticsm adds to it.

good stuff.

Is the "12 pounds" theory based on today's equipment? Just wondering because it looks like equipment and uniforms fit much better and I rarely see knee pads and thigh pads like we used to have back in the 80's.

RuthlessBurgher
05-02-2012, 12:37 PM
I don't see him as being a Safety as a likely possibility - but I can't Guarantee it....

I know someone who will be happy to guarantee it...

Seriously, though, with the amount of time teams have to spend in nickel and dime formations in this new-fangled passing league, it is actually a benefit to have some "tweener" types who are able to perform the duties of both a linebacker or a safety (so a team can't use a hurry-up offense in order go keep your defense stuck in a disadvantageous personnel grouping).

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-02-2012, 01:44 PM
good stuff.

Is the "12 pounds" theory based on today's equipment? Just wondering because it looks like equipment and uniforms fit much better and I rarely see knee pads and thigh pads like we used to have back in the 80's.

That 12 pounds would be todays technology. I'm sure a best in class Riddell or Schutt helmet & shoulder pads along with the uniform would eat most of that up. You have a WR/CB wearing nothing but helmet & shoulder pads plus their uniform. That number would increase as sizes increase, facemask, & more equipment. Technology is amazing today but so are the prices. Facemasks are made of titanium and the light weight technology in the pads doesn't compare to last century. Neither do the prices. Paying close to $450 for a helmet & chinstrap, over $100 for a titanium facemask, and $500 for shoulder pads is insane. Pay all that money to shave under 10lbs for a youth or high school kid to gain an advantage is still done though. Get to the NFL level...Done across the board. College programs are all over the board based on size of program. budget, etc.

hawaiiansteel
05-02-2012, 05:51 PM
LB on the inside track at NFL Draft

May 2, 2012 12:00 am
By Gerry Dulac / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

548

As an undersized linebacker at the University of Miami, Sean Spence drew comparisons to Jonathan Vilma for his speed, quickness, athleticism and ability to make tackles. And his stature.

Spence was a sideline-to-sideline tackle machine for the Hurricanes, becoming the first Miami player since Vilma -- and only sixth in school history -- to register 100 or more tackles in back-to-back seasons. Like Vilma, who is 6 feet 1, Spence didn't seem to have any problems seeing over the line of scrimmage, either.

Even if he is two inches shorter than Vilma.

"I love Sean Spence," NFL Network draft expert Mike Mayock said before the draft. "Someone is going to get a hell of a player."

That turned out to be the Steelers, who made him their third-round selection in the NFL draft.

Even if he isn't the type of player they needed to fill a hole in their 3-4 defense. Not if they were looking for a long-term replacement for James Farrior.

Linebacker coach Keith Butler said Spence will be used as the "mack" inside linebacker in their defense, a position manned by Lawrence Timmons. At 5 feet 11, 233 pounds, he is not ideally suited to play the "buck" position that Farrior filled since 2002.

"I wouldn't call him a buck, no," Butler said. "The buck linebacker has to be a little bit bigger and take on the guards more. We cover up our linebackers pretty good. What I mean by that is, we let them scrape and run to football a little bit more instead of coming downhill and taking on isolations."

Farrior, though, played at a weight lighter than Spence the past couple seasons. After once weighing as much as 245 pounds when he first arrived, Farrior played closer to 225 and sometimes as low as 218 late in the season -- thinking the lighter weight would help him maintain his speed as he got older.

The Steelers were prepared to draft Farrior's long-term replacement in the first round, but when Stanford guard David DeCastro slipped to the 24th overall spot they drafted him ahead of Alabama inside linebacker Dont'a Hightower. The New England Patriots quickly traded up and took Hightower at No. 25.

The Steelers waited until the third round to draft Spence, who played at outside linebacker in 39 of the 40 games he started over four seasons at Miami. The Steelers believe his speed and athleticism more than make up for his lack of height.

"The day of the [isolation] with the middle linebacker is almost gone," Butler said. "Everybody is using tight ends as fullbacks and sometimes they use them when trying to lead and sometimes they don't. A lot of stuff today is misdirection and trying to fool you or outnumber you one way and then give you a different look coming back the other way.

"A lot of that requires the ability to read from the linebackers nowadays, not so much to get down and stuff a hole. Sometimes you have to do it on the goal line when you have to take on a big running back, but we're taking on Ray Rice, we're not taking on Jerome Bettis anymore."

That doesn't seem to matter to Spence, who had 111 tackles in 2010 and 106 in '11 when he was named first-team All-Atlantic Coast Conference. All he is focused on is coming in and making the team, even if most of his action will be on special teams.

"When I met with coach Butler at the combine, he told me that no rookie linebacker came in and started; they had to work their way in on special teams," Spence said. "I am all for it. Anything I can do for the team, I am willing to help, whether that's coming in and contributing on special teams, I am all for it.

"It's great to come to an organization that always competes for a championship. Having a chance to play here is just a tremendous feeling."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-draft-633964/ (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/lb-on-the-inside-track-at-nfl-draft-633964/)

RuthlessBurgher
05-02-2012, 07:28 PM
Linebacker coach Keith Butler said Spence will be used as the "mack" inside linebacker in their defense, a position manned by Lawrence Timmons. At 5 feet 11, 233 pounds, he is not ideally suited to play the "buck" position that Farrior filled since 2002.

Then use Timmons at Buck and Spence at Mack. Problem solved.

hawaiiansteel
05-02-2012, 07:33 PM
Then use Timmons at Buck and Spence at Mack. Problem solved.

I'm betting that's exactly what the Steelers' future plan is...

Chadman
05-02-2012, 07:55 PM
Then use Timmons at Buck and Spence at Mack. Problem solved.

That'll be the plan, Chadman assumes. Steelers could have a very active ILB group for years to come.

steelblood
05-03-2012, 08:33 AM
I'm betting that's exactly what the Steelers' future plan is...

I was surprised to hear that Timmons would not be moving to buck this season. They actually prefer Foote at Buck over Timmons (Foote could play either). IIRC, the Buck in our system must be more cerebral and less read and react.

Slapstick
05-03-2012, 08:43 AM
I was surprised to hear that Timmons would not be moving to buck this season. They actually prefer Foote at Buck over Timmons (Foote could play either). IIRC, the Buck in our system must be more cerebral and less read and react.

I don't know about that...

Foote spent all last season working on the Buck position...Timmons played all four LB positions last year, but worked primarily on the Mack...

If they feel that what they did last year worked, why screw with it?

phillyesq
05-03-2012, 09:12 AM
I was surprised to hear that Timmons would not be moving to buck this season. They actually prefer Foote at Buck over Timmons (Foote could play either). IIRC, the Buck in our system must be more cerebral and less read and react.

The buck calls the D, and apparently the Steelers are more comfortable with Foote in that role than Timmons. Whether Timmons has the ability to call the defense, I don't know.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-03-2012, 09:38 AM
The buck calls the D, and apparently the Steelers are more comfortable with Foote in that role than Timmons. Whether Timmons has the ability to call the defense, I don't know.

I don't think it has to do with a comfort level. Foote knows the ins & outs of the defense... There is no doubt. I think if Foote & Timmons are your Top 2..You put them in the best spot to succeed and be help the D be productive. Timmons athleticism gives him the ability to get to the play strongside from the Mack regardless of an OL getting their hands on him, false steps, or slow read. I believe Foote can get caught in the wash if the same happens...He just doesn't have the elite athleticism to recover. So better to take your lumps off PA if Foote is left on a TE who is very athletic than risk leaving a cut back gap exposed in the run game. You could compensate with your SS off the PA but there is not fixing backside assignment. Foote is very good at attacking the hole and very sound in his assigment to be a solid Buck. Minimal liablity with Foote at Buck. Foote comes off the field in sub packes and Timmons takes center stage. It isn't what Timmons lacks...It is what is a more productive combination for the two. This is one of the reason I feel Spence will be a very productive player on this D at Mack when Timmons slide to Buck. His athleticism will give you "Timmons" there and Timmons will be a complete Buck who can run with any TE. If Ta'Amu gives you what Hampton gave the Steelers and can keep them clean....I like what the future looks like inside.

aggiebones
05-03-2012, 12:58 PM
Spence will not be better than Foote this year. No ifs ands or buttockes. No chance. Maybe by 2013, he knocks Foote to the curb or a backup role. But no chance Spence is going to be ready to go this year. Maybe he finds a 50% role as the season progresses. But I'd rather have Foote in their when the sheet hits the fan.

steelblood
05-03-2012, 01:14 PM
The buck calls the D, and apparently the Steelers are more comfortable with Foote in that role than Timmons. Whether Timmons has the ability to call the defense, I don't know.

I wonder about this team's confidence in Timmons setting up the D. Now and in the future. I'd love to know what they think.

RuthlessBurgher
05-03-2012, 01:47 PM
Shouldn't Timmons be the guy on defense with the green dot on his helmet? Why have Foote be able to communicate with coaches and call the plays for the D if Foote comes off the field on passing down sub packages (which in today's NFL, is about half the time with most teams that have a good QB). Timmons plays in our base 3-4, the nickel, the dime, etc. so he should be the man with the speaker in his helmet, no?

steelblood
05-04-2012, 08:05 AM
Shouldn't Timmons be the guy on defense with the green dot on his helmet? Why have Foote be able to communicate with coaches and call the plays for the D if Foote comes off the field on passing down sub packages (which in today's NFL, is about half the time with most teams that have a good QB). Timmons plays in our base 3-4, the nickel, the dime, etc. so he should be the man with the speaker in his helmet, no?

I agree. If Timmons is going to be calling the D eventually, he should start now. The kid has been here for 5 years. If he is ready for Buck, let him buck. Foote will be fine at either position.