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Oviedo
04-03-2012, 04:17 PM
1. Coby Fleenor, TE, Stanford. Another weapon for Ben when he is going to need it because of our weakened RB group. Heath isn’t getting any younger and until the OL really improves he will always be called on to help as a 3rd OT. Also a position of need with Saunders’ status unclear and David Johnson a waste of a uniform. A defensive player wouldn't get to play anyway.
2. Brandon Brooks, OG, Miami OH. Good young developmental project who fill a position of critical need on the OL. Foster and Legursky are not the answers.
3. Josh Chapman, NT, Alabama. Coming off knee surgery which will scare some teams away but the guy will be awesome. He has some time to learn behind Hampton and McLendon.
4. Audie Cole, ILB, NC State. Tall and rangy player to challenge inside.
5. Lucas Nix, OG, Pitt. Hometown boy will challenge for playing time sooner than many think.
6. Terrance Ganaway, RB, Baylor. IMO will be better Pro than college player.
7. Ryan Broyles, WR, Oklahoma. Depth selection for future slot duty. Coming off injury so maybe starts on PS but has performed in past.
7. Markus Kuhn, DE, NC State. Smith/Kiesel developmental project.
7. Neiko Thorpe, FS, Auburn. Project.

RuthlessBurgher
04-03-2012, 04:22 PM
I thought this was supposed to be called the Sunshine Mock? Is it cloudy down there in Florida today?

Eddie Spaghetti
04-03-2012, 04:49 PM
don't think fleenor is worth the 24th.

could live with the rest of it.

Oviedo
04-03-2012, 04:49 PM
I thought this was supposed to be called the Sunshine Mock? Is it cloudy down there in Florida today?

No it's very sunny. Just did a change.

grotonsteel
04-03-2012, 04:54 PM
Nice draft except the First Rd pick. I would prefer RB Lamar Miller over TE.

Dee Dub
04-03-2012, 04:56 PM
don't think fleenor is worth the 24th.

could live with the rest of it.

I agree with you and not to mention that TE is one of the least needed position on this team. A viable back to Heath, sure, but not a first round pick on a starter.

This would be a horrible first round pick. Sorry Ovi. Not good.

steelerkeylargo
04-03-2012, 04:57 PM
I could live with that. Ovi I dont think Cole or Broyles make it that long. Depending on how Broyles looks at his workout he could jump back into 3rd round consideration.

flippy
04-03-2012, 05:25 PM
I'd be happy with that haul.

hawaiiansteel
04-03-2012, 06:00 PM
I'd be happy with that haul.


Ovi,

anytime you agree with any picks that flippy made in his mock draft such as a TE like Fleener in the first round it should give you pause to reconsider, don't you think? :p :D

flippy
04-03-2012, 06:21 PM
Ovi,

anytime you agree with any picks that flippy made in his mock draft such as a TE like Fleener in the first round it should give you pause to reconsider, don't you think? :p :D


We've got more than just the TE in common. Great minds think alike bro!

RuthlessBurgher
04-03-2012, 06:22 PM
Ovi,

anytime you agree with any picks that flippy made in his mock draft such as a TE like Fleener in the first round it should give you pause to reconsider, don't you think? :p :D

Using that logic, focosteeler should change his name to locosteeler, since his picks are so in sync with mine this year. :eek:

calmkiller
04-04-2012, 07:30 AM
I have 3 issues with this OVI. First we have 4 7th rounders. You have omitted 1. Second I am not crazy about a TE in the first round. I don't think any TE's grade out as first rounders this year, but that's just me. Do you pick him because you believe Hightower, DeCastrol, and Glenn are gone? Third....and probably the most important. There are no WVU players in this draft.

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 07:53 AM
I have 3 issues with this OVI. First we have 4 7th rounders. You have omitted 1. Second I am not crazy about a TE in the first round. I don't think any TE's grade out as first rounders this year, but that's just me. Do you pick him because you believe Hightower, DeCastrol, and Glenn are gone? Third....and probably the most important. There are no WVU players in this draft.

I assumed Glenn and DeCastro are gone or my pick would have been Glenn. Then I looked at Fleenor and Hightower. The deciding factor was that Fleenor would play and contribute and Hightower would watch and learn. If my ILB is going to spend at least a year watching and learning then why not get one in Round 3 or 4.

I also picked Fleenor because we have a real issue if Miller ever gets hurt. There is absolutley no one behind him who could fill in. That would be a very serious loss to the offense.

As far as WVU players I still advocate we sign Owen Schmitt to a FA contract. Does that count? He would be a significant improvement over David Johnson.

steelblood
04-04-2012, 08:23 AM
Outside of Cole, I like all of the players you've selected. Fleener is an outside of the box pick. If they design an offense to use him in two TE sets (like NE), etc. I'd be good with the pick. He'd be good in the red zone and help our point production. I agree with the others Broyles is likely a fourth round pick at worst. I'm all for Brooks in the second if Silatolu is off the board. Nice job.

Sugar
04-04-2012, 09:50 AM
If Fleenor is the is the BPA when we pick, I'm good with it. We've spend first round picks on the lines the last three years so it might be good to get a weapon first this time.

phillyesq
04-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Ovi, I like your idea of a second TE, and if the value was there this year, I would absolutely say that the Steelers should consider it. My only objection is that I don't think that Fleener is a first round talent. I think that TEs will be overdrafted this year because of Gronk/Hernandez, Vernon Davis, Jimmy Graham, etc., but I just don't see the value at that position this year.

I also meant to add, I like Brooks. Probably a boom or bust type pick, but it would be great to get a real mauler at OG.

RuthlessBurgher
04-04-2012, 10:14 AM
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MeetJoeGreene http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=497400#post497400)
Dude! Epic Mock Draft! That is BEAST!

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 10:24 AM
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MeetJoeGreene http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=497400#post497400)
Dude! Epic Mock Draft! That is BEAST!

Thanks Ruthless---I now feel validated

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 10:35 AM
I assumed Glenn and DeCastro are gone or my pick would have been Glenn. Then I looked at Fleenor and Hightower. The deciding factor was that Fleenor would play and contribute and Hightower would watch and learn. If my ILB is going to spend at least a year watching and learning then why not get one in Round 3 or 4.

I also picked Fleenor because we have a real issue if Miller ever gets hurt. There is absolutley no one behind him who could fill in. That would be a very serious loss to the offense.

As far as WVU players I still advocate we sign Owen Schmitt to a FA contract. Does that count? He would be a significant improvement over David Johnson.

So even though Hightower is an above average football player and played in a very similar 3-4 zone blitz defense at Alabama you think automatically he sits year one?

And you base this on the logic that no other rookie has come in on defense for the Steelers and played/started year one yet no other rookie the Steelers have drafted has come from a similar 3-4 zone blitz?

One word....flawed!

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 10:35 AM
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MeetJoeGreene http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=497400#post497400)
Dude! Epic Mock Draft! That is BEAST!


BTW--I really hope your Mock is close to what happens. I just don't see that Round 1 trade happening and I would sorely be tempted to take Glenn over DeCastro. I would also like to see Ganaway in the later rounds at RB.

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 10:36 AM
So even though Hightower is an above average football player and played in a very similar 3-4 zone blitz defense at Alabama you think automatically he sits year one?

And you base this on the logic that no other rookie has come in on defense and played year one yet no other has come from a similar 3-4 zone blitz?

One word....flawed!

Didn't Cam Heyward come in from a similar system. It's not like he ate up lots of playing time.

grotonsteel
04-04-2012, 10:50 AM
Didn't Cam Heyward come in from a similar system. It's not like he ate up lots of playing time.

Any Defensive player picked by Steelers in Rd 1 has a 2-3-yrs learning curve under Dick Lebeau. DL schemes are too complicated for a rookie to contribute.

calmkiller
04-04-2012, 10:57 AM
So even though Hightower is an above average football player and played in a very similar 3-4 zone blitz defense at Alabama you think automatically he sits year one?

And you base this on the logic that no other rookie has come in on defense for the Steelers and played/started year one yet no other rookie the Steelers have drafted has come from a similar 3-4 zone blitz?

One word....flawed!

Kendrell Bell came in and produced his rookie season. Now after that season we have a different story, but it is possible. Although that wasn't under Lebeau. I think he could produce. I also feel that we have two UDFA as starters at OG. That needs addressed.

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 11:34 AM
Didn't Cam Heyward come in from a similar system. It's not like he ate up lots of playing time.

No he didnt. Not even close. All though Ohio State did run some variations of a 3-4 defense they were primarily a 4-3 that used some 3-4. And that 3-4 was no where near the 3-4 zone blitz that Saban runs at Alabama.

And we are talking about the captain of the Alabama defense with Hightower. The one who called the defensive signals. Not a rookie DE who had entrenched starters ahead of him. The Steelers have an opening at ILB.

It's ok Ovi, you can be narrow sited on this.

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 11:36 AM
Any Defensive player picked by Steelers in Rd 1 has a 2-3-yrs learning curve under Dick Lebeau. DL schemes are too complicated for a rookie to contribute.

Unbelievable! If you think that LeBeau's 3-4 zone blitz is more complicated than Saban's then you really dont know much about either system.

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 11:41 AM
Yeah this sounds like a guy who couldn't start in LeBeau's 3-4 zone blitz as a rookie. :rolleyes:

The domination was surely a team effort, powered by several stars, but it was the versatile Hightower who made the D excel in every situation. In Alabama's base 3--4 defense he lined up at inside linebacker and called the defensive signals. In the nickel package he moved to the outside and rushed the passer from the Jack linebacker-end hybrid position; at other times in the nickel he dropped into coverage and played like an extra safety. Heading into the title game, he led the Tide with 81 tackles, 15 more than any other player.
"Dont'a is the kind of special talent that you never want to take off the field," coach Nick Saban says. "He's our leader out there. Everyone respects him for all that he's overcome."


NICK SABAN FIRST LAID EYES ON DONT'A HIGHTOWER at Marshall County High in Lewisburg, Tenn. Hours after watching the junior linebacker go through various drills on the first day of 2007 spring practice, he called Hightower—who had spotted a man on the sideline following his every move but didn't recognize the Alabama coach—and offered him a scholarship. "What I saw that day in the indoor practice facility at his school was probably the most athletic linebacker in the country," Saban says. "I was blown away. I knew right away he could be a perfect fit for what we wanted to do."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1193997/2/index.htm

focosteeler
04-04-2012, 11:58 AM
Using that logic, focosteeler should change his name to locosteeler, since his picks are so in sync with mine this year. :eek:

I like it! makes me feel like a Lucha libre! :D

RuthlessBurgher
04-04-2012, 01:22 PM
I like it! makes me feel like a Lucha libre! :D

http://s.ecrater.com/stores/205223/4ee7b2a12e5b3_205223n.jpg

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-04-2012, 02:33 PM
Big difference in comparing Heyward with Hightower.....aside from scheme.

Heyward did not have a full summer in which to adapt to the NFL and learn the system. Hightower will.

Heyward came in behind Brett Keisel - a long time starter. Hightower will come in behind Larry Foote. An aging, one-time starter who will now move over into Farrior's spot. I would not have given Hightower much of a chance to earn playing time if this was even three years ago and he was drafted behind Farrior, but he would be moving into an open position.

RuthlessBurgher
04-04-2012, 03:15 PM
Big difference in comparing Heyward with Hightower.....aside from scheme.

Heyward did not have a full summer in which to adapt to the NFL and learn the system. Hightower will.

Heyward came in behind Brett Keisel - a long time starter. Hightower will come in behind Larry Foote. An aging, one-time starter who will now move over into Farrior's spot. I would not have given Hightower much of a chance to earn playing time if this was even three years ago and he was drafted behind Farrior, but he would be moving into an open position.

I hope they move Timmons over to Farrior's spot and let Foote play the spot he used to play next to Farrior (only this time, next to Timmons).

focosteeler
04-04-2012, 03:16 PM
he could be a 3 down linebacker if you just make him rush the passer on 3rd downs and let timmons do coverage

RuthlessBurgher
04-04-2012, 03:38 PM
I protest the Fleener pick solely on the basis of this awful Tom Brady/Justin Bieber wannabe haircut:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/stan/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/6708945.jpeg

Luckily, since he went to Stanford and all, he was smart enough to shave that crap off before the combine. Whew...

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/wp-content/blogs.dir/2348/files/predicting-the-texans-first-round-pick/fleener.jpg

Sugar
04-04-2012, 04:41 PM
I protest the Fleener pick solely on the basis of this awful Tom Brady/Justin Bieber wannabe haircut:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/stan/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/6708945.jpeg

Luckily, since he went to Stanford and all, he was smart enough to shave that crap off before the combine. Whew...

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/wp-content/blogs.dir/2348/files/predicting-the-texans-first-round-pick/fleener.jpg

It's hair. It grows back. Nothing wrong with being fashionable. :nono

feltdizz
04-04-2012, 06:08 PM
Kendrell Bell came in and produced his rookie season. Now after that season we have a different story, but it is possible. Although that wasn't under Lebeau. I think he could produce. I also feel that we have two UDFA as starters at OG. That needs addressed.

Yeah you pretty much proved Ovi's point. If we have to go back 10 to 15 years and all we can use is Bell for an example and it was BEFORE Lebeau was DC it doesn't really help the argument.

phillyesq
04-04-2012, 06:24 PM
Yeah you pretty much proved Ovi's point. If we have to go back 10 to 15 years and all we can use is Bell for an example and it was BEFORE Lebeau was DC it doesn't really help the argument.

The primary reason that few rookies have started on Lebeaus defense is because the starters have been pretty good. Looking at the most recent premium picks on D, Ziggy Hood and Heyward, they were behind Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel as drafted. You aren't going to cast aside a premium player, or even a solid starter, for the sake of starting a rookie. Timmons couldn't beat out Larry Foote for the starting gig in his second year; that is on Timmons, not DL, who used him effectively as a nickel LB.

The weakest spot on D has traditionally been the corner opposite Ike Taylor. Corners take time to develop and play in any system. That isn't exclusive to DL.

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 06:28 PM
Yeah you pretty much proved Ovi's point. If we have to go back 10 to 15 years and all we can use is Bell for an example and it was BEFORE Lebeau was DC it doesn't really help the argument.

Ovi really doesnt have a point if for the past 10-15 years or so, the Steelers have never drafted a defensive player who played in a near identical defense as what LeBeau runs.

That can change this year. But if playing rookie is based on stubborness, then there isnt anything I can say about that. Dont'a Hightower has the ability as well as the knowledge of the defense to make it happen day one.

feltdizz
04-04-2012, 06:48 PM
Hightower coming from a 3-4 is a plus but the learning curve is still high.

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 07:28 PM
Hightower coming from a 3-4 is a plus but the learning curve is still high.

I disagree. The defense that Saban and LeBeau run are near identical. Only learning there will be is the terminology. Having played football half of his life I am sure he has hasnt had a hard time doing that.

But if you guys want to keep thinking it is too daunting of a task then knock yourself out. This isnt jet propulsion laboratory stuff.

Chadman
04-04-2012, 07:30 PM
The whole "Rookies don't start in a LeBeau Defense" argument only holds water if the rookie is immediately better than the player in front of him.

The thing is- the Steelers are EXCELLENT at going into a draft with no immediate need for a starter to be found.

Take a look at this upcoming season- name the position, right now, where an immediate starter must come from the draft. There isn't one- even with our belief that we need an ILB, NT, OG, FS etc- there are already established players in place to hold that spot until a better player beats them out.

While our rookies might, and in most cases certainly do, have greater potential than the incumbant starter, it's still only potential. There is something positive to be said in that no rookie is just 'handed' a job- they have to prove they can earn it.

Rushing rookies into starting line-ups is a bit like rushing racehorses into racing- if they are not physically & mentally ready to go, putting them in the frying pan can actually hinder, or in some cases damage their progression.

It's not necessarily a bad thing that we don't need our rookies to start- regardless of how some posters see it.

Dee Dub
04-04-2012, 07:53 PM
The whole "Rookies don't start in a LeBeau Defense" argument only holds water if the rookie is immediately better than the player in front of him.

The thing is- the Steelers are EXCELLENT at going into a draft with no immediate need for a starter to be found.

Take a look at this upcoming season- name the position, right now, where an immediate starter must come from the draft. There isn't one- even with our belief that we need an ILB, NT, OG, FS etc- there are already established players in place to hold that spot until a better player beats them out.

While our rookies might, and in most cases certainly do, have greater potential than the incumbant starter, it's still only potential. There is something positive to be said in that no rookie is just 'handed' a job- they have to prove they can earn it.

Rushing rookies into starting line-ups is a bit like rushing racehorses into racing- if they are not physically & mentally ready to go, putting them in the frying pan can actually hinder, or in some cases damage their progression.

It's not necessarily a bad thing that we don't need our rookies to start- regardless of how some posters see it.

Excuse me if I dont believe that Larry Foote is an adequate starter. He isnt. 3 games into next season fans will be calling for his head. He is nothing more than a back up. He will get exposed over any length of time.

I believe that Hightower isnt the typical rookie. I think he is a cut above. A player who already has mastered the complexity of the 3-4 zone blitz. Look at how he was used in Saban's 3-4 and you should be able to see a player who isnt the norm.

But I get it. You are happy with Larry Foote. :lol:

steelz09
04-04-2012, 08:22 PM
I assumed Glenn and DeCastro are gone or my pick would have been Glenn. Then I looked at Fleenor and Hightower. The deciding factor was that Fleenor would play and contribute and Hightower would watch and learn. If my ILB is going to spend at least a year watching and learning then why not get one in Round 3 or 4.

I also picked Fleenor because we have a real issue if Miller ever gets hurt. There is absolutley no one behind him who could fill in. That would be a very serious loss to the offense.

As far as WVU players I still advocate we sign Owen Schmitt to a FA contract. Does that count? He would be a significant improvement over David Johnson.

Who is better on this team at ILB than Hightower? Are you saying your favorite coach Lebeau will start Larry Foote over Hightower? :)

hawaiiansteel
04-04-2012, 08:25 PM
Who is better on this team at ILB than Hightower? Are you saying your favorite coach Lebeau will start Larry Foote over Hightower? :)

actually, I think Larry Foote would start ahead of Hightower to begin the season. you do realize what a complex defense we have for a rookie to learn, don't you? :stirpot

steelz09
04-04-2012, 08:52 PM
actually, I think Larry Foote would start ahead of Hightower to begin the season. you do realize what a complex defense we have for a rookie to learn, don't you? :stirpot

Yes, I hear the enrollment exam to our defense is decoding the human genome with a perfect score :)

birtikidis
04-04-2012, 09:38 PM
I love how people don't want Hightower bc he'd have to learn the defense. Really? You'd rather not draft the better player and end up with a career backup and still have to draft a talented lune backer in a different draft? And flee or would sit anyway. You really think they're gonna sit Heath? Or do you suppose we just go two wide? And hell the guy isn't even a first round talent to begin with. I like the rest of your draft but I'm tired of your constant whining about lebeau. Give it a break already it's pathetic.

birtikidis
04-04-2012, 09:42 PM
The whole "Rookies don't start in a LeBeau Defense" argument only holds water if the rookie is immediately better than the player in front of him.

The thing is- the Steelers are EXCELLENT at going into a draft with no immediate need for a starter to be found.

Take a look at this upcoming season- name the position, right now, where an immediate starter must come from the draft. There isn't one- even with our belief that we need an ILB, NT, OG, FS etc- there are already established players in place to hold that spot until a better player beats them out.

While our rookies might, and in most cases certainly do, have greater potential than the incumbant starter, it's still only potential. There is something positive to be said in that no rookie is just 'handed' a job- they have to prove they can earn it.

Rushing rookies into starting line-ups is a bit like rushing racehorses into racing- if they are not physically & mentally ready to go, putting them in the frying pan can actually hinder, or in some cases damage their progression.

It's not necessarily a bad thing that we don't need our rookies to start- regardless of how some posters see it.
I personally believe that guard is a position where an actual talented player could, neigh, needs to come in and start. Our o line is atrocious and having a kid with talent next to Gilbert would be huge.

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 09:42 PM
Who is better on this team at ILB than Hightower? Are you saying your favorite coach Lebeau will start Larry Foote over Hightower? :)

He was prepared to start Bmac and did start Gay over Lewis, Brown and Allen. 'Nuff said.

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 09:47 PM
I love how people don't want Hightower bc he'd have to learn the defense. Really? You'd rather not draft the better player and end up with a career backup and still have to draft a talented lune backer in a different draft? And flee or would sit anyway. You really think they're gonna sit Heath? Or do you suppose we just go two wide? And hell the guy isn't even a first round talent to begin with. I like the rest of your draft but I'm tired of your constant whining about lebeau. Give it a break already it's pathetic.


Thank you for sharing your opinion and feel free not to read my posts if it upsets you so much. I never said that Hightower was a bad player and wouldn't eventually be valuable. My point was just that if you can get someone in Round 1 who can contribute immediately what is wrong with that. Perhaps if there wasn't a knee jerk reaction to defend everything LeBeau does you would have seen my point.

Oviedo
04-04-2012, 09:48 PM
I personally believe that guard is a position where an actual talented player could, neigh, needs to come in and start. Our o line is atrocious and having a kid with talent next to Gilbert would be huge.

Totally agree. Cordy Glenn or David Decastro would be the best possible picks we could make in Round 1 even if we had to trade up 4-5 picks. Our Guards are terrible and it causes problems in both the run and passing games.

birtikidis
04-04-2012, 09:56 PM
Thank you for sharing your opinion and feel free not to read my posts if it upsets you so much. I never said that Hightower was a bad player and wouldn't eventually be valuable. My point was just that if you can get someone in Round 1 who can contribute immediately what is wrong with that. Perhaps if there wasn't a knee jerk reaction to defend everything LeBeau does you would have seen my point.
Ovi, it's more that you'll bash lebeau at every chance you get. In either situation (fleenor or Hightower) I seriously doubt either gets significant playing time out the gate. Fleenor bc they'd rather have wallace/brown/miller and a back. We still don't know if we will use a true full back or a h-back. And IMO instead of a rook te, I'd rather see sanders out there. High tower won't start right away bc they are gonna want an experienced guy out there. Guarantee Hightower becomes a starter long before fleenor. Probably by game 5.
totally agree about our guards. I loved every other pick you had.

Sugar
04-04-2012, 11:05 PM
Thank you for sharing your opinion and feel free not to read my posts if it upsets you so much. I never said that Hightower was a bad player and wouldn't eventually be valuable. My point was just that if you can get someone in Round 1 who can contribute immediately what is wrong with that. Perhaps if there wasn't a knee jerk reaction to defend everything LeBeau does you would have seen my point.

Nothing is wrong with getting a guy who can start right away. However, the Steelers don't need someone who can start right away on either side of the ball. Even though I'd love to have Keuchly, BPA will be good for this team. We've invested in the lines with the first picks of the last three drafts and I'd rather not do that again. However, if the FO still thinks that is the way to go, so be it.

Chadman
04-04-2012, 11:20 PM
Excuse me if I dont believe that Larry Foote is an adequate starter. He isnt. 3 games into next season fans will be calling for his head. He is nothing more than a back up. He will get exposed over any length of time.

I believe that Hightower isnt the typical rookie. I think he is a cut above. A player who already has mastered the complexity of the 3-4 zone blitz. Look at how he was used in Saban's 3-4 and you should be able to see a player who isnt the norm.

But I get it. You are happy with Larry Foote. :lol:


Oh DD...go back & re-read the post & tell Chadman where he said Foote would definately start over Hightower regardless of how good Hightower is because rookies never play etc, etc....then rethink your response...go on...you can do it...

:p

Chadman
04-04-2012, 11:22 PM
I personally believe that guard is a position where an actual talented player could, neigh, needs to come in and start. Our o line is atrocious and having a kid with talent next to Gilbert would be huge.

Could happen- see Pouncey, Maurkice for proof.

That said, if the Steelers draft an OG that doesn't outplay the incumbant, so be it. Don't insert the rookie if he isn't the best option, just because he's a rookie.

Chadman
04-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Who is better on this team at ILB than Hightower? Are you saying your favorite coach Lebeau will start Larry Foote over Hightower? :)

Not sure if Hightower definately beats out Foote to start the season. Foote never gets the respect of the fans, but he's a solid, experienced player. That said, you'd assume that Hightower, once he's up to speed, would surpass Foote on the depth chart due to his natural ability. It could take 3 games. It could take 5. It could take a year. Regardless, Chadman would believe that the Steelers would put the best option on the field.

Chadman
04-04-2012, 11:28 PM
He was prepared to start Bmac and did start Gay over Lewis, Brown and Allen. 'Nuff said.

And Bmac was dropped for Gay after 1 game. Did Lewis, Brown or Allen outplay Gay last season?

Dee Dub
04-05-2012, 12:17 AM
Not sure if Hightower definately beats out Foote to start the season. Foote never gets the respect of the fans, but he's a solid, experienced player. That said, you'd assume that Hightower, once he's up to speed, would surpass Foote on the depth chart due to his natural ability. It could take 3 games. It could take 5. It could take a year. Regardless, Chadman would believe that the Steelers would put the best option on the field.

Oh for goodness sakes. Now Larry Foote is a "solid" player? No way. He hasnt been solid for years. What you are confused with is called mediocrity. That's where Foote lives now. But some are always the last to know.


So be it.

Chadman
04-05-2012, 02:28 AM
Oh for goodness sakes. Now Larry Foote is a "solid" player? No way. He hasnt been solid for years. What you are confused with is called mediocrity. That's where Foote lives now. But some are always the last to know.


So be it.

Are you suggesting that Hightower is so good right now, that the Steelers should dispense with Foote all together & just plug Hightower in?

Wouldn't you rather Hightower earned the spot?

feltdizz
04-05-2012, 09:18 AM
Are you suggesting that Hightower is so good right now, that the Steelers should dispense with Foote all together & just plug Hightower in?

Wouldn't you rather Hightower earned the spot?

when Dub falls for a player he falls hard... Hightower DID play in a 3-4 so he is ready, doesn't even need a playbook. Throw him in there and let him show the world is brilliance LOL...

Mendenhall was supposed to be the best RB to ever put on a Steeler uniform when we drafted him...

I appreciate the enthusiasm but I think dumping on Foote is unnecessary. He IS a solid player... being called solid means a special player has the chance to unseat him by midseason. Not sure why Foote being called solid is seen as a threat to Hightower if we drafted him.

Dee Dub
04-05-2012, 09:32 AM
And Bmac was dropped for Gay after 1 game. Did Lewis, Brown or Allen outplay Gay last season?

And Lewis, Brown, and Allen are all first round tallents? Nope. Not a could comparison Chadman. We are talking about a special player here. Not a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Dee Dub
04-05-2012, 09:41 AM
when Dub falls for a player he falls hard... Hightower DID play in a 3-4 so he is ready, doesn't even need a playbook. Throw him in there and let him show the world is brilliance LOL...

Mendenhall was supposed to be the best RB to ever put on a Steeler uniform when we drafted him...

I appreciate the enthusiasm but I think dumping on Foote is unnecessary. He IS a solid player... being called solid means a special player has the chance to unseat him by midseason. Not sure why Foote being called solid is seen as a threat to Hightower if we drafted him.

A player can learn a play book in a matter of months. It isnt all that hard especially when you have played in a similar defense.

I have advocated that 2 players could come right in and start for the Steelers. Ben Roethlisberger and Rashard Mendenhall. Both I felt were immediate upgrades over the player who was currently starting at their position. I hardly think I was wrong on either one. I feel the same with Hightower over Foote. Sorry.

If falling in love with a player is the simple act of being able to recognize that one is a special player who is better than the one who is currently slated as the starter, then I guess I am guilty.

Take shots all you want felt. Larry Foote is marginal at best. If you and Chadman are ok with mediocrity then so be it. I see an immediate chance for an improvement.

It really isnt that hard to watch a game or player and be able to recognize that one player is actually better than an another. But to suggest that a rookie could come in and start day one seems to violate some kind code/chain of command with some sensative Steeler fans. I dont get it.

Chadman
04-05-2012, 09:45 AM
Take shots all you want felt. Larry Foote is marginal at best. If you and Chadman are ok with mediocrity then so be it. I see an immediate chance for an improvement.

It really isnt that hard to watch a game or player and be able to recognize that one player is actually better than an another. But to suggest that a rookie could come in and start day one seems to violate some kind code/chain of command with some sensative Steeler fans. I dont get it.

DD, again- go back & re-read the post you are 'taking offense to' that Chadman wrote about Foote being the starter. Actually take the time to read the point Chadman makes, and stop thinking it's an 'attack' on Hightower's ability to start in year 1, which it simply is not.

In other words, take yourself a chill pill Winston...it's all good...

Oviedo
04-05-2012, 10:02 AM
If Hightower is such a "special player" who is destined for stardom why would we be able to get him with the #24 in Round 1. Is Luke Keuchly then "super special" since he is ranked higher? Special players usually go in the Top 10. Hightower is good but is he really "special?"

Chadman
04-05-2012, 10:30 AM
If Hightower is such a "special player" who is destined for stardom why would we be able to get him with the #24 in Round 1. Is Luke Keuchly then "super special" since he is ranked higher? Special players usually go in the Top 10. Hightower is good but is he really "special?"

For the record- not even convinced that Keuchley is special. Chadman sees Pozsluzny when he sees Keuchley...good, won't let you down...but really, just a 'guy'...

Oviedo
04-05-2012, 12:51 PM
For the record- not even convinced that Keuchley is special. Chadman sees Pozsluzny when he sees Keuchley...good, won't let you down...but really, just a 'guy'...

I would agree about Keuchley. Other than Willis I haven't seen a great ILB in the draft for awhile. I still see Timmons as out of position playing there.

steelz09
04-05-2012, 03:47 PM
I would agree about Keuchley. Other than Willis I haven't seen a great ILB in the draft for awhile. I still see Timmons as out of position playing there.

I agree on both accounts.

Let’s be thankful that Colbert and Keith Butler can assess players and their future positions better than Mike Tomlin.
Comments by Mike Tomlin made after selecting Timmons:

“we’re a 3-4 team and he’s a right outside linebacker”

REALLY Tomlin?!? REALLY?!? Nice assessment. He sucks and is a complete non-factor as a right outside linebacker.

Butler and Colbert mentioned that he also has the ability to play inside in the 3-4. Well, thank god Colbert/Butler can assess a players position a bit better than Tomlin.

feltdizz
04-05-2012, 04:09 PM
If Hightower is such a "special player" who is destined for stardom why would we be able to get him with the #24 in Round 1. Is Luke Keuchly then "super special" since he is ranked higher? Special players usually go in the Top 10. Hightower is good but is he really "special?"

well.... he is special for us at 24. LOL...

Oviedo
04-05-2012, 04:18 PM
I agree on both accounts.

Let’s be thankful that Colbert and Keith Butler can assess players and their future positions better than Mike Tomlin.
Comments by Mike Tomlin made after selecting Timmons:

“we’re a 3-4 team and he’s a right outside linebacker”

REALLY Tomlin?!? REALLY?!? Nice assessment. He sucks and is a complete non-factor as a right outside linebacker.

Butler and Colbert mentioned that he also has the ability to play inside in the 3-4. Well, thank god Colbert/Butler can assess a players position a bit better than Tomlin.


IIRC correctly at the time Tomlin's comments were in context of comparing Tommons to Derrick Brooks and how they were very similar. Also at the time of Timmons' selection Harrison had not yet exploded onto the scene so projecting that Timmons might be the ROLB of the future was not an unfounded statement at that time.

The reality is that Timmons is out of position as an ILB in a 3-4 but despite that he has performed well.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-05-2012, 06:16 PM
another reality is that timmons would be miserable as a OLB on either side and was overdrafted as many believed.

Dee Dub
04-05-2012, 11:57 PM
If Hightower is such a "special player" who is destined for stardom why would we be able to get him with the #24 in Round 1. Is Luke Keuchly then "super special" since he is ranked higher? Special players usually go in the Top 10. Hightower is good but is he really "special?"

So there are no special players drafted after the first 10 picks? Really? I think you should look at the history of the NFL draft before you make these ridiculous comments. Unfortunately because of the over emphasis on the QB position you will see guys like Ryan Tannehill draft in the first 10 picks. Maybe even a Brock Osweiler will go before pick 20. Are these guys really better football players than Dont'a Hightower. Right now, no way. Teams will reach for these players because of the emphasis on that position. Just like last year with Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder. Sorry Ovi, being drafted at 24 doesnt mean you are the 24th best player in the draft. I would think you would know that.

And by the way, one thing (one of several things), that makes Hightower so special, is the fact that he exceled at the 3-4 zone blitz. In fact he called the defensive signals in Alabama's 3-4. He played several positions in their 3-4 (ILB, OLB, DE), and knows the system extremely well. Though I agree Kuechly is the better overall ILB, he doesnt know the 3-4. It would be a learning curve for him. Not Hightower.

And to answer your question, yes, I do believe Hightower is a special player. When you combine his leadership skills, his ability to quaterback a defense, his versatility, his big play ability, punishing hitter, and his relentless work ethic, there's no question....he is a special player. He had a knee injury in 2009, As a result he just stated to get back to form last year. His better days are ahead of him.

hawaiiansteel
04-06-2012, 12:14 AM
And by the way, one thing (one of several things), that makes Hightower so special, is the fact that he exceled at the 3-4 zone blitz. In fact he called the defensive signals in Alabama's 3-4. He played several positions in their 3-4 (ILB, OLB, DE), and knows the system extremely well. Though I agree Kuechly is the better overall ILB, he doesnt know the 3-4. It would be a learning curve for him. Not Hightower.

And to answer your question, yes, I do believe Hightower is a special player. When you combine his leadership skills, his ability to quaterback a defense, his versatility, his big play ability, punishing hitter, and his relentless work ethic, there's no question....he is a special player. He had a knee injury in 2009, As a result he just stated to get back to form last year. His better days are ahead of him.

hey Dee Dub,
wow, I really hate doing this but...I completely agree with you! :D :Cheers

Oviedo
04-06-2012, 09:21 AM
So there are no special players drafted after the first 10 picks? Really? I think you should look at the history of the NFL draft before you make these ridiculous comments. Unfortunately because of the over emphasis on the QB position you will see guys like Ryan Tannehill draft in the first 10 picks. Maybe even a Brock Osweiler will go before pick 20. Are these guys really better football players than Dont'a Hightower. Right now, no way. Teams will reach for these players because of the emphasis on that position. Just like last year with Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder. Sorry Ovi, being drafted at 24 doesnt mean you are the 24th best player in the draft. I would think you would know that.

And by the way, one thing (one of several things), that makes Hightower so special, is the fact that he exceled at the 3-4 zone blitz. In fact he called the defensive signals in Alabama's 3-4. He played several positions in their 3-4 (ILB, OLB, DE), and knows the system extremely well. Though I agree Kuechly is the better overall ILB, he doesnt know the 3-4. It would be a learning curve for him. Not Hightower.

And to answer your question, yes, I do believe Hightower is a special player. When you combine his leadership skills, his ability to quaterback a defense, his versatility, his big play ability, punishing hitter, and his relentless work ethic, there's no question....he is a special player. He had a knee injury in 2009, As a result he just stated to get back to form last year. His better days are ahead of him.

Regardless of what the pundits say I would prefer Hightower over Kuechly. I just don't see what the buzz is about Kuechly. As was pointed out yesterday he just reminds me of Pozluszny...solid but nothing special.

I'd have no issue with us taking Hightower if he is really the best player but I sure would want to see at least two OL in the following three picks.

steelz09
04-06-2012, 09:36 AM
another reality is that timmons would be miserable as a OLB on either side and was overdrafted as many believed.


:Agree

That's the harsh reality that most don't want to admit too. If Tomln thought he was our OLB of the future then that was a horrible assessment. We are damn lucky he performs ok at ILB otherwise that would go down as one of the major Steelers draft busts in recent memory. The reality is Tomlin fell in love with Timmons because he remined him of a former player of his... and they overdrafted.

Sugar
04-06-2012, 10:44 AM
:Agree

That's the harsh reality that most don't want to admit too. If Tomln thought he was our OLB of the future then that was a horrible assessment. We are damn lucky he performs ok at ILB otherwise that would go down as one of the major Steelers draft busts in recent memory. The reality is Tomlin fell in love with Timmons because he remined him of a former player of his... and they overdrafted.

Did Tomlin fall in love with him or was it Colbert or maybe even LeBeau? I only ask because it was Tomlins first draft and I can't imagine that he had a whole lot of pull at that point (first head coaching job, first year). Fortunately, Timmons does have the positional flexibility to play about every spot in the LB corps. That helped us a lot last year in a solid, if not spectacular way.

Oviedo
04-06-2012, 12:26 PM
Did Tomlin fall in love with him or was it Colbert or maybe even LeBeau? I only ask because it was Tomlins first draft and I can't imagine that he had a whole lot of pull at that point (first head coaching job, first year). Fortunately, Timmons does have the positional flexibility to play about every spot in the LB corps. That helped us a lot last year in a solid, if not spectacular way.

Dare you even suggest that LeBeau made a mistake. Of course it was the coach on the job for two months but never was it LeBeau.

And don't bring up the fact that Colbert typically has the majority of the decision especially in Tomlin's rookie year.

flippy
04-06-2012, 01:15 PM
Dare you even suggest that LeBeau made a mistake. Of course it was the coach on the job for two months but never was it LeBeau.

And don't bring up the fact that Colbert typically has the majority of the decision especially in Tomlin's rookie year.

I remember Tomlin was in love with Timmons. And I think this pick might be on him.

The thing that never was clear to me was would the Steelers still have taken Timmons if the Jets didn't jump ahead to snag Revis. Would Timmons have still been the choice if both guys were available?

RuthlessBurgher
04-06-2012, 01:36 PM
I remember Tomlin was in love with Timmons. And I think this pick might be on him.

The thing that never was clear to me was would the Steelers still have taken Timmons if the Jets didn't jump ahead to snag Revis. Would Timmons have still been the choice if both guys were available?

I think Colbert's reaction after Tomlin was discussing Revis at that press conference convinced me that Revis was the guy we wanted.

steelz09
04-06-2012, 02:24 PM
I think Colbert's reaction after Tomlin was discussing Revis at that press conference convinced me that Revis was the guy we wanted.

Ovi - Tomlin may not have "demaned" Timmons be the pick. Like you guys said, he was new on the job. However, I think Tomlin persuaded Colbert enough to him that convince Timmons should be the guy.

But even w/ Tomlin's persuasion, I think Revis was the #1 guy.... and I'll fault Colbert with that one because the Steelers showed their cards before the draft and thats why the Jets traded up to snag him.

Sugar - I wouldn't say that we are "lucky" that Timmons has position flexibility. He's a good ILB and he's not good at OLB. If he was good at both then I would call that he has position flexibility. He's below average at OLB and I'm not sure I would even call him that. You could line up Foote at OLB... if he's no good at the position, I wouldn't call that position flexibility.

I wouldn't consider Timmon's OLB play as "solid". Those games where he played OLB, he was absent. I actually had to search for him on the field otherwise I wouldn't have known if he was even playing.

hawaiiansteel
04-09-2012, 09:18 PM
2012 mock draft, take two

Posted by Evan Silva on April 9, 2012


1. Colts: Andrew Luck, quarterback, Stanford.


Just as they did in ’98, the Colts play it safe at No. 1.


2. Redskins: Robert Griffin III, quarterback, Baylor.


RG3 will restore Washington as an NFC East contender.


3. Vikings: Matt Kalil, tackle, USC.


Minnesota can’t pass on the best left tackle in the draft.


4. Browns: Trent Richardson, running back, Alabama.


Cleveland must find a way to begin moving the chains.


5. Buccaneers: Michael Brockers, defensive lineman, LSU.


Greg Schiano wants to get more physical in the trenches.


6. Rams: Morris Claiborne, cornerback, LSU.


St. Louis spurns receivers in favor of the draft’s top defender.


7. Jaguars: Justin Blackmon, receiver, Oklahoma State.


The Jags pull the trigger to solidify Blaine Gabbert’s supporting cast.


8. Dolphins: Quinton Coples, defensive end, North Carolina.


The Fins will wait for their next second-round quarterback flop.


9. Panthers: Melvin Ingram, defensive end, South Carolina.


Ingram gives Carolina an impact bookend for Charles Johnson.


10. Bills: Riley Reiff, tackle, Iowa.


Buffalo uses its first-rounder on the draft’s second best tackle.


11. Chiefs: Ryan Tannehill, quarterback, Texas A&M.


Kansas City can’t pass on Tannehill if he slips past Miami.


12. Seahawks: Stephon Gilmore, cornerback, South Carolina.


Seattle coach Pete Carroll loves big, press-man corners.


13. Cardinals: David DeCastro, guard, Stanford.


Arizona will use this pick on the best offensive lineman left.


14. Cowboys: Dontari Poe, defensive tackle, Memphis.


It’s no secret that Dallas is high on Poe’s immense upside.


15. Eagles: Fletcher Cox, defensive tackle, Mississippi State.


Cox fits line coach Jim Washburn’s scheme as a gap shooter.


16. Jets: Michael Floyd, receiver, Notre Dame.


Floyd’s blocking ability will come in handy for the run-first Jets.


17. Bengals: Mark Barron, safety, Alabama.


He’s a natural replacement for Chris Crocker at strong safety.


18. Chargers: Courtney Upshaw, linebacker, Alabama.


San Diego can finally wash its hands of Larry English.


19. Bears: Whitney Mercilus, defensive end, Illinois.


The Bears believe pass rusher is their biggest draft need.


20. Titans: Cordy Glenn, guard, Georgia.


A college tackle, Glenn would kick inside for the Titans.


21. Bengals: Dre Kirkpatrick, cornerback, Alabama.


This pick may come down to Kirkpatrick vs. Janoris Jenkins.


22. Browns: Brandon Weeden, quarterback, Oklahoma State.


Weeden won’t struggle to defeat Colt McCoy in a camp battle.


23. Lions: Jonathan Martin, tackle, Stanford.


He could start at right tackle and eventually replace Jeff Backus.


24. Steelers: Coby Fleener, tight end, Stanford.

Pittsburgh passes on line help to draft the best player left.


25. Broncos: Doug Martin, running back, Boise State.


Peyton Manning will love Martin’s ability to pick up blitzers.


26. Texans: Kendall Wright, receiver, Baylor.


Wright adds a new dimension to Houston’s vertical pass game.


27. Patriots: Nick Perry, defensive end, USC.


A one-trick pony, Perry slips to the pass rush-needy Pats.


28. Packers: Shea McClellin, linebacker, Boise State.


He gives Green Bay a high-motor bookend for Clay Matthews.


29. Ravens: Rueben Randle, receiver, LSU.


Randle has a realistic chance to be this draft’s best receiver.


30. 49ers: Peter Konz, guard, Wisconsin.


Konz can play guard and center, both need areas in San Fran.


31. Patriots: Devon Still, defensive tackle, Penn State.


The best player left upgrades New England’s interior pass rush.


32. Giants: Luke Kuechly, linebacker, Boston College.


Kuechly drops because inside ‘backers are devalued in the NFL.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/09/2012-mock-draft-take-two/

Oviedo
04-10-2012, 07:39 AM
Ovi - Tomlin may not have "demaned" Timmons be the pick. Like you guys said, he was new on the job. However, I think Tomlin persuaded Colbert enough to him that convince Timmons should be the guy.

But even w/ Tomlin's persuasion, I think Revis was the #1 guy.... and I'll fault Colbert with that one because the Steelers showed their cards before the draft and thats why the Jets traded up to snag him.

Sugar - I wouldn't say that we are "lucky" that Timmons has position flexibility. He's a good ILB and he's not good at OLB. If he was good at both then I would call that he has position flexibility. He's below average at OLB and I'm not sure I would even call him that. You could line up Foote at OLB... if he's no good at the position, I wouldn't call that position flexibility.

I wouldn't consider Timmon's OLB play as "solid". Those games where he played OLB, he was absent. I actually had to search for him on the field otherwise I wouldn't have known if he was even playing.


Obviously, the powers that be on the Steelers have a far more favorable opinion of Timmons given the contract he just received last year.

calmkiller
04-10-2012, 07:45 AM
2012 mock draft, take two

Posted by Evan Silva on April 9, 2012



24. Steelers: Coby Fleener, tight end, Stanford.

Pittsburgh passes on line help to draft the best player left.



32. Giants: Luke Kuechly, linebacker, Boston College.


Kuechly drops because inside ‘backers are devalued in the NFL.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/09/2012-mock-draft-take-two/

Crazy Bastards. Kuechly is there we take him..... I will be pissed if this happens.

feltdizz
04-10-2012, 09:16 AM
Obviously, the powers that be on the Steelers have a far more favorable opinion of Timmons given the contract he just received last year.

yep... I think Timmons versatility is valued a ton by our FO. Unfortunately for Timmons... the fans want stats and HOFer type splash plays.

Chadman
04-10-2012, 09:46 AM
In Chadman's opinion, Timmons & Brett Keisel held the Steelers front 7 together last season as age hit some of the more experienced members of the team, and injury robbed them of several games from starters last season.

The fact that the Steelers Defense performed as well as it did with so many players falling during the season gives an indication as to how these two played last season.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-10-2012, 09:47 AM
I think the fans want timmons to perform like a top 15 pick, which in my opinion, he has not. He has been hurt by being moved around, but I did not like the pick when it was made and I haven't changed my mind since.

he takes terrible angles, runs himself out of plays, and is weak at the point of attack, IMO.

steelz09
04-10-2012, 09:55 AM
yep... I think Timmons versatility is valued a ton by our FO. Unfortunately for Timmons... the fans want stats and HOFer type splash plays.

I don't want HOFer type of splash plays... I want splash plays in general. That is what Tomlin has historically said that Timmons will provide.... I'm still waiting.

steelz09
04-10-2012, 09:58 AM
I think the fans want timmons to perform like a top 15 pick, which in my opinion, he has not. He has been hurt by being moved around, but I did not like the pick when it was made and I haven't changed my mind since.

he takes terrible angles, runs himself out of plays, and is weak at the point of attack, IMO.

Couldn't have said it better. I have a problem paying a guy big money in his rookie contract to "learn" for the majority of it. Then, when he finally "gets" the position, his high dollar rookie contract is over and he gets another huge one.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-10-2012, 10:24 AM
The more and more film I watch, I'm not convinced Kuechley & Hightower would be both 1st round worthy if the top of this class had more talent or if you throw a "Willis" in this class. It is one of those positions that always falls too. My evaluation of the two is this. Kuechley can play inside in a 4-3 or 3-4. Hightower can only play inside in a 3-4. Hightower has pass rush skills which gives you flexibilty in sub packages. Hightower could fit the Steelers better because of this. He is tight in the hips and "could" be a liability in base off of play action. He looked better than expected in sub packages when he was forced in coverage accept for getting beat occasionally on a wheel route by a RB. One thing I have seen you will see below. His play inside in base is what I want to evaluate above all else. In the middle, I see a guy who didn't get blocked much because Chapman kept him clean. Theses highlights are the defensive plays in the games and Hightower is highlighted. Just to note...It actually is more of a testament to what Chapman does on the field by commanding double teams and combination blocks that keeps guys off Hightower. Don't take your eyes off Hightower to watch the ball. Don't look at the end product of the play...Look at how he got there. If he is clean he finds the ball. When engaged...He is making the tackles too far off the LOS or not making them at all. Shedding ability...Diagnosis...Whatever it is, his short area quickness hurts him when he is engaged. Better keep him clean as much as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KevyJyNu8U

Two plays he gets blocked on makes tackle 7 & 9 yards down field. Over ran a play on a run. Beat bad on wheel route but his coverage in subs was very good. Does a very nice job getting to the QB. Would like to see a better motor at times rushing away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSuM0zyy11M

He really looks good coming off the edge rushing. However, one thing I do see is he plays high coming off the edge and he won't be running through every OL at the NFL level. His short area quickness will limit his counters if he is stoned. Looks good in coverage. This one isn't very good inside if you are keeping you eyes on him. The 11 times he was blocked, he was out of the play 9 times. The 2 times he came off he was +5 yards downfield. When he is running free....He is around the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f71CHCrTvWU

Again, looked decent in coverage. Just has a way of getting to the QB and getting pressure from the edge. But still the same from the middle. Over ran a couple of plays when unblocked. 11 plays he was blocked. 8 plays he didn't get off to make the play. 1 time he came off 6 yard downfield and gave up the 1st. Another time the QB draw went for 12 yards. The other he came up with a good stuff to hold them from the 1st.



Hightower has alot of value because he shows he can pressure the QB and flexibilty in sub packages. I have concerns when he is in base if he has to get off blocks and flip his hips to find a TE off PA or drift out and cover a RB in space. He looks pretty good playing with coverage in front of him and running with receivers crossing his zone. It really isn't an opinion...It is there in three games. The whole National Title game is on youtube and you see more of the same. If you are keeping your eyes on him...You will see it. Now, is he a talent that could get better? I think so. I also think with a "Hampton" type in front of him he will do very well. I don't see him early as an ILB who will win the battles more often than not if he has to shed & hit in the hole. He isn't a Ray Lewis type that will give you a "bang-bang" meeting the FB in the hole and making the play unless the RB cuts to his off shoulder where he could fall off. He will need to add strength and be coached up on technique. He needs to use his hands alot better at the next level. The instincts are there which will help him because he doesn't have great change of direction if he takes some false steps. He will need to get off blocks better because he won't be a chase down tackler at the next level.


I really am not liking the defensive prospects that may be on the board if we sit at #24 that fill a need (ILB/NT). That includes Hightower & Poe if either are there. I would rather take a Barron, Kirkpatrick, Gilmore, Upshaw, or Perry if they are on the board on the defensive side. Hopefully Decastro falls or they go get him. There is a real good possibilty I won't even want a 1st when the Steelers go on the clock. This 1st round is really shaping up to be BPA because the cliff outside the Top 20 could be huge if we draft on need.

RuthlessBurgher
04-10-2012, 02:42 PM
Crazy Bastards. Kuechly is there we take him..... I will be pissed if this happens.

:Agree

The overall sentiment of "Pittsburgh passes on line help to draft the best player left" makes sense, but the best player left at would be a borderline top 10 player who could start immediately and be a leader in the middle of our defense at a position of need as opposed to a borderline 1st round player who would simply be a backup tight end for us (and not get much playing time if Haley is going to run a 3-wide 11 personnel as a base offense). Fleener is good, but I think his stock is getting artificially boosted because teams saw what type of weapons tight ends can be last year with Gronkowski, Graham, etc. Fleener is simply the top player out of a weak TE crop this year. I'd much rather the top ILB...a pure tackling machine next to Timmons. That could potentially allow Timmons to roam around more and make plays like a 2nd level Polamalu.

AB84
04-11-2012, 07:06 PM
I was pimpin fleener ever since the "draft season" began back in early February..Nobody on any of the top 4 boards had him as a possible pick, I got flamed for even suggesting him...and now all of a sudden Steeler Depot, and many board members across Stillernation have him in there mocks, or articles written about him. I've stated why he makes sense, but its been plagerized enough now that it would look like I'm late to the party. I know how this sounds, but I really don't care. Same thing happened with AB, and I was also the first to start the Tolbert to Pittsburgh Idea in which Steelerdepot wrote as there idea, much like they are doing with Fleener, when I was weeks and months ahead of them. It just bugs me when people use other peoples thoughts/ideas as there own. I know how this will be recieved & I don't really care.

Dee Dub
04-11-2012, 08:15 PM
I was pimpin fleener ever since the "draft season" began back in early February..Nobody on any of the top 4 boards had him as a possible pick, I got flamed for even suggesting him...and now all of a sudden Steeler Depot, and many board members across Stillernation have him in there mocks, or articles written about him. I've stated why he makes sense, but its been plagerized enough now that it would look like I'm late to the party. I know how this sounds, but I really don't care. Same thing happened with AB, and I was also the first to start the Tolbert to Pittsburgh Idea in which Steelerdepot wrote as there idea, much like they are doing with Fleener, when I was weeks and months ahead of them. It just bugs me when people use other peoples thoughts/ideas as there own. I know how this will be recieved & I don't really care.

Wow for only having 7 posts you seem to have covered a lot with them, huh? Talk about getting the most out of a small few. You are like money dude....except if you think the Steelers would ever draft a TE with their first round pick or even second round pick you are way wrong!! He makes absolutely no sense!

So just how great are you again?

AB84
04-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Wow for only having 7 posts you seem to have covered a lot with them, huh? Talk about getting the most out of a small few. You are like money dude....except if you think the Steelers would ever draft a TE with their first round pick or even second round pick you are way wrong!! He makes absolutely no sense!

So just how great are you again? Oh great another post count junkie....This coming from the King of Self-gloss himself? LMFAO..

We don't use 1st on TE's? Heard of Heath Miller...In case you haven't been watching the league is evolving. Exploiting mismatches with the biggest mismatch position on the field (TE) Is definitely worth 1st round consideration. Especially when you have speed like Fleener to exploit the seem with linebacker like Hightower for instance, wouldn't stand a chance running with CF...Wake up, We are no longer the Cowher led Steelers..Tomlin thinks differentl. If you don't see what a mismatch nightmare Fleener is, I overestimated your football savvy..Our biggest weakness arguably last year was our inability to get in the end zone. Fleener goes along way in solving those issues. I guarantee you Haley and Ben are salvating at the thought of what Fleener could do for this offense.

Chadman
04-11-2012, 09:33 PM
8 posts in & you've already told the board how far ahead of the curve you are & ticked off Dee Dub?

That's overachieving right there.

Don't suppose you were responsible for the Pope signing were you?

:p

AB84
04-12-2012, 03:17 AM
8 posts in & you've already told the board how far ahead of the curve you are & ticked off Dee Dub?

That's overachieving right there.

Don't suppose you were responsible for the Pope signing were you?

:p

Whats post count have to do with anything?

ikestops85
04-12-2012, 10:41 AM
Whats post count have to do with anything?

I think what everyone is wondering about is where you made all these proclamations because it wasn't on this site. That's what the post count is referring to.

grotonsteel
04-12-2012, 11:46 AM
I think what everyone is wondering about is where you made all these proclamations because it wasn't on this site. That's what the post count is referring to.

Maybe he/she changed his/her name and forgot about it ??;) :)

RuthlessBurgher
04-12-2012, 12:12 PM
Whats post count have to do with anything?

I realize that your username is referring to this:

http://sportsandrec.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/antonio-brown.jpg

But I noticed that it also looks like this:

http://www.thorsven.net/BDABBA/Images/dis00127.jpg

:p

feltdizz
04-12-2012, 01:16 PM
I was pimpin fleener ever since the "draft season" began back in early February..Nobody on any of the top 4 boards had him as a possible pick, I got flamed for even suggesting him...and now all of a sudden Steeler Depot, and many board members across Stillernation have him in there mocks, or articles written about him. I've stated why he makes sense, but its been plagerized enough now that it would look like I'm late to the party. I know how this sounds, but I really don't care. Same thing happened with AB, and I was also the first to start the Tolbert to Pittsburgh Idea in which Steelerdepot wrote as there idea, much like they are doing with Fleener, when I was weeks and months ahead of them. It just bugs me when people use other peoples thoughts/ideas as there own. I know how this will be recieved & I don't really care.

you really love you some you... try not to choke. ;)

did you create the internets and cure cancer too?

AB84
04-12-2012, 03:04 PM
I think what everyone is wondering about is where you made all these proclamations because it wasn't on this site. That's what the post count is referring to.
On another site obviously...Stillernation.

AB84
04-12-2012, 03:05 PM
you really love you some you... try not to choke. ;)

did you create the internets and cure cancer too?

Yeah I've been told.

Dee Dub
04-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Oh great another post count junkie....This coming from the King of Self-gloss himself? LMFAO..

We don't use 1st on TE's? Heard of Heath Miller...In case you haven't been watching the league is evolving. Exploiting mismatches with the biggest mismatch position on the field (TE) Is definitely worth 1st round consideration. Especially when you have speed like Fleener to exploit the seem with linebacker like Hightower for instance, wouldn't stand a chance running with CF...Wake up, We are no longer the Cowher led Steelers..Tomlin thinks differentl. If you don't see what a mismatch nightmare Fleener is, I overestimated your football savvy..Our biggest weakness arguably last year was our inability to get in the end zone. Fleener goes along way in solving those issues. I guarantee you Haley and Ben are salvating at the thought of what Fleener could do for this offense.

Hey partner back up a few steps and re-read what I posted. No one never said the Steelers dont pick TE's in the first round. In response to your proclaiming to be the first ever in Steeler Nation to talk about Coby Fleener and the possibility of Steelers selecting him I said no way will the Steelers use a first round or a second round draft on a TE...that was meant as in this year. Hello??

Your assessment of Fleener as a player may be spot on but to think this is the pick for the Steelers is spot off.

So basically all your chest pumping about Fleener and being the first to recognize his talent set is really irrelevant since there is no way he ever wears a Steeler uniform.

Dee Dub
04-12-2012, 05:30 PM
I think what everyone is wondering about is where you made all these proclamations because it wasn't on this site. That's what the post count is referring to.

Cha-ching!!!

Dee Dub
04-12-2012, 05:32 PM
I realize that your username is referring to this:

http://sportsandrec.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/antonio-brown.jpg

But I noticed that it also looks like this:

http://www.thorsven.net/BDABBA/Images/dis00127.jpg

:p

That was hilarious!! :p

AB84
04-12-2012, 07:15 PM
Cha-ching!!!

Look them all up be my guest, there all there. Including seeing AB's greatness before anyone. I've yet to meet my match on knowledge of this team.I know that will bring a lot of hate my way, so be it. Dee Dub while your'e looking that up, look up the word hypocrite, because going back to Steeler-Fo-Life you've been one of the biggest know it alls around. Well, there's a new sherriff in town, step aside son.

;)

Crash
04-12-2012, 07:42 PM
Looks like 43 got a new alias.

AB84
04-12-2012, 08:31 PM
Looks like 43 got a new alias.

I'm not 43.

RuthlessBurgher
04-13-2012, 10:03 AM
I've yet to meet my match on knowledge of this team.

http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/BigHeadRuinsTheDay.png

phillyesq
04-13-2012, 10:08 AM
Look them all up be my guest, there all there. Including seeing AB's greatness before anyone. I've yet to meet my match on knowledge of this team.I know that will bring a lot of hate my way, so be it. Dee Dub while your'e looking that up, look up the word hypocrite, because going back to Steeler-Fo-Life you've been one of the biggest know it alls around. Well, there's a new sherriff in town, step aside son.

;)

Why stop there??? If you're going to be posting with this type of bravado, I also expect to see you telling us how much you can bench press and how fast you run the 40. :D

RuthlessBurgher
04-13-2012, 10:17 AM
http://www.80stees.com/images/products/The_Princess_Bride_Morons-T.jpg

ikestops85
04-13-2012, 10:32 AM
I'm not 43.

Nope but are you FanofSteel34?

Oviedo
04-13-2012, 11:39 AM
Me thinks someone is desperate for attention.

Dee Dub
04-13-2012, 12:57 PM
......because going back to Steeler-Fo-Life you've been one of the biggest know it alls around. Well, there's a new sherriff in town, step aside son.

;)

Yeah, this kind of gives him away. A guy who is new here, and says he posted all these great things over at Stillernation then alludes to my old Tribune username?? It could only mean one thing....

43!!!

Oviedo
04-13-2012, 02:15 PM
Yeah, this kind of gives him away. A guy who is new here, and says he posted all these great things over at Stillernation then alludes to my old Tribune username?? It could only mean one thing....

43!!!

There you go busting him and now he will have to invent a new name and come back again.

Dee Dub
04-13-2012, 05:33 PM
There you go busting him and now he will have to invent a new name and come back again.

:razz: That's how we do it Ovi!

AB84
04-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Nope but are you FanofSteel34?

Yes sir!!!!!!

AB84
04-13-2012, 07:04 PM
Just keeping it real, I'm only arrogant about my team. When people try and tell me about my team, It honestly feels like someone is trying to tell me about my kids, can't help it...Just being honest.

Chadman
04-13-2012, 09:45 PM
Just keeping it real, I'm only arrogant about my team. When people try and tell me about my team, It honestly feels like someone is trying to tell me about my kids, can't help it...Just being honest.

"I was pimpin fleener ever since the "draft season" began back in early February..Nobody on any of the top 4 boards had him as a possible pick, I got flamed for even suggesting him...and now all of a sudden Steeler Depot, and many board members across Stillernation have him in there mocks, or articles written about him. I've stated why he makes sense, but its been plagerized enough now that it would look like I'm late to the party. I know how this sounds, but I really don't care. Same thing happened with AB, and I was also the first to start the Tolbert to Pittsburgh Idea in which Steelerdepot wrote as there idea, much like they are doing with Fleener, when I was weeks and months ahead of them. It just bugs me when people use other peoples thoughts/ideas as there own. I know how this will be recieved & I don't really care."

This comment has less to do with 'your team' and a heck of a lot more to do with 'your opinion of yourself'- but you go on ahead & paint it whatever way you like.

Crash
04-14-2012, 02:12 AM
Yes sir!!!!!!Oh terrific, 43's butt buddy has joined. Wonderful.

AB84
04-14-2012, 04:17 AM
Oh terrific, 43's butt buddy has joined. Wonderful.

At least 43 is objective and has his own opinions. I have a hell of a lot more respect for that than people that use others opinions as there own..The only thing I have against you is your constantly making excuses for Ben as if he is perfect. Makes me sick.

AB84
04-14-2012, 04:18 AM
"I was pimpin fleener ever since the "draft season" began back in early February..Nobody on any of the top 4 boards had him as a possible pick, I got flamed for even suggesting him...and now all of a sudden Steeler Depot, and many board members across Stillernation have him in there mocks, or articles written about him. I've stated why he makes sense, but its been plagerized enough now that it would look like I'm late to the party. I know how this sounds, but I really don't care. Same thing happened with AB, and I was also the first to start the Tolbert to Pittsburgh Idea in which Steelerdepot wrote as there idea, much like they are doing with Fleener, when I was weeks and months ahead of them. It just bugs me when people use other peoples thoughts/ideas as there own. I know how this will be recieved & I don't really care."

This comment has less to do with 'your team' and a heck of a lot more to do with 'your opinion of yourself'- but you go on ahead & paint it whatever way you like.

Actually they are all facts.

Chadman
04-14-2012, 11:03 AM
Actually they are all facts.

And that disproves what Chadman said in what way?

AB84
04-14-2012, 03:31 PM
And that disproves what Chadman said in what way?

It does not, I misunderstood your point.