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View Full Version : Kuechly, Curry, Hightower comparisons ... I'll take Hightower



steelz09
03-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Curry:
Height: 6016
Weight: 254
40 Yrd Dash: 4.52
20 Yrd Dash: 2.58
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50 225 Lb.
Bench Reps: 25 Vertical
Jump: 37
Broad Jump: 10'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.51
3-Cone Drill: 7.15

Kuechly
Height: 6024
Weight: 242
40 Yrd Dash: 4.58
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 27
Vertical Jump: 38
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.12
3-Cone Drill: 6.92

Hightower
Height: 6022
Weight: 265 (but possibly lost weight)
40 Yrd Dash: 4.68
225 Lb. Bench Reps: TBD
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 09'09
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.64
3-Cone Drill: 7.55

Although Hightower has a bit slower #'s he is carrying more weight. So, if these "other" guys need to gain weight (which they will), would they perform any better than Hightower... probably not.I don't understand why a lot of people would take Kuechly but not Hightower... are you kidding me?

The SEC is still superior to the ACC and that is coming from someone that likes a few ACC teams. Additionally, BC simply sucks and is bottom of the barrel when it comes to the ACC. Kuechly would probably have been a backup this year if he played for AL.

RuthlessBurgher
03-30-2012, 03:57 PM
Kuechly is a tackling machine. Plain and simple.

Kuechly's 3 seasons at BC:
Solo tackles: 102, 110, 87
Assists: 89, 73, 71
Total tackles: 191, 183, 158

Hightower's 4 seasons at Bama:
Solo tackles: 41, 30, 5, 26
Assists: 44, 39, 11, 38
Total tackles: 85, 69, 16, 64

I realize that Hightower dealt with a serious injury in the middle of his college career (and it is admirable that he worked his way back from that to have a soild season this year), the fact is that Kuechly has had more solo tackles every single season than Hightower has had total tackles in his best season. 532 total tackles in 3 seasons is just plain sick. I'll let the play on the field dictate who is the better prospect, not combine performances (and he was significantly better than Hightower in every respect here as well) or a superior conference argument. It's not as if Kuechly has to gain weight...at 242 lbs, he's probably 15-20 lbs. heavier than Farrior's typical in-season playing weight. Kuechly is the right size for an ILB (Hightower may need to lose a little bit of weight moreso than Kuechly needs to gain weight), he's more athletic than Hightower in all of the drills, and he has unmatched instincts on the field of play. I don't see any comparison here...I'll take Kuechly every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Eddie Spaghetti
03-30-2012, 04:38 PM
is this even a real question?

if kuechly is there(which he won't be) rooney should sprint to the podium.

Dee Dub
03-30-2012, 05:07 PM
This may come as a shock to some but if I had my choice I wouldn't hesitate to take Kuechkly over Hightower. There's no question in my mind that Kuechly is the better LB and more rounded LB. He is a complete backer. And he actually reminds me some of James Farrior. Nearly the same size (6 ft 3 243 Kuechly and 6 ft 2 242 Farrior), and like Farrior, Kuechly may not be great in one area but he is solid in every aspect of the ILB spot. Both are instinctual and technically sound. And Kuechly, like Farrior in his prime, is solid in coverage. Very good at disrupting with in that first 5 yards.

A month to two months ago I didnt think the Steelers would ever be able to even sniff Kuechly. But with the likes of Poe, Tanneyhill, Whitney Mercilus, Stephone Gilmore, and Michael Brockers all jumping up the board, there is a chance. Ya never know.

The thought of him in front of Troy and next to Timmons is a ton of big play potential.

steelz09
03-30-2012, 05:11 PM
I don't care about the tackles ... BC sucks. That's plain and simple. If your a really good ILB on a defense that sucks then it's much more likely that you're going to be the one that gets all the tackles.

btw .... how many of those tackles are within 3 yards of the LOS. That's more important. Hell, Timmons had inflated tackle numbers a few years ago... the problem was those tackles were after a RB already ran the ball 4 yards. That is not productive.

Also, how many of those tackles were after a WR/TE/RB that he was covering caught the ball?

Does a guy that gets 40 more tackles because he allowed the WR/TE/RB catch the ball more productive than a guy that only has 10 tackles because either the QB won't throw the ball in his direction??? Come on .... if that is the logic we're using then William Gay should be a HOFer. It doesn't matter that Gay has so many tackles because the WR that he was covering caught the ball 10 times in 1 game.... :roll: Tackling stats are a weak argument when your comparing those 2 players and their corresponding teams

birtikidis
03-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Not taking a guy bc his school sucks is a terrible arguement. We wouldn't have Ben, Woodley, Deebo, Ike.... we woulda never had Lloyd, Chad Brown, Rod Woodson, Stallworth, ... need I go on?

Dee Dub
03-30-2012, 05:46 PM
Not taking a guy bc his school sucks is a terrible arguement. We wouldn't have Ben, Woodley, Deebo, Ike.... we woulda never had Lloyd, Chad Brown, Rod Woodson, Stallworth, ... need I go on?

Cha-ching! Let me add to this, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, L.C. Greenwood, John Stallworth, Mel Blount, Louis Lipps, Dermontti Dawson etc., etc.

steelz09
03-30-2012, 06:43 PM
Cha-ching! Let me add to this, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, L.C. Greenwood, John Stallworth, Mel Blount, Louis Lipps, Dermontti Dawson etc., etc.

Wrong again... bragging because a guy makes all the tackles on a pathetic team is a poor argument. You missed my point completely.

steelz09
03-30-2012, 06:50 PM
Again, let's vote Gay to the HOF because he made a lot of tackles after his guy caught the ball if that is the criteria we're using.

If Hightower was on a team like BC, he would have those tackle statistics. But instead, he has to share his tackles with at least other 3 first round picks.

steelz09
03-30-2012, 06:54 PM
Kuechly is a tackling machine. Plain and simple.

Kuechly's 3 seasons at BC:
Solo tackles: 102, 110, 87
Assists: 89, 73, 71
Total tackles: 191, 183, 158

Hightower's 4 seasons at Bama:
Solo tackles: 41, 30, 5, 26
Assists: 44, 39, 11, 38
Total tackles: 85, 69, 16, 64

I realize that Hightower dealt with a serious injury in the middle of his college career (and it is admirable that he worked his way back from that to have a soild season this year), the fact is that Kuechly has had more solo tackles every single season than Hightower has had total tackles in his best season. 532 total tackles in 3 seasons is just plain sick. I'll let the play on the field dictate who is the better prospect, not combine performances (and he was significantly better than Hightower in every respect here as well) or a superior conference argument. It's not as if Kuechly has to gain weight...at 242 lbs, he's probably 15-20 lbs. heavier than Farrior's typical in-season playing weight. Kuechly is the right size for an ILB (Hightower may need to lose a little bit of weight moreso than Kuechly needs to gain weight), he's more athletic than Hightower in all of the drills, and he has unmatched instincts on the field of play. I don't see any comparison here...I'll take Kuechly every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Sorry, I'm not going to compare any LB in the draft to Farrior. It's not fair to Farrior..... He was a prototypical 3-4 ILB for so many years and I'm not going to compare a rookie ILB that has never played in the NFL to him. While we're at it, let's start comparing linebackers to Lambert, Ray Lewis or Dick Butkus.

Chadman
03-30-2012, 07:24 PM
Ahem...

Nigel Bradham...

that is all.

steelz09
03-30-2012, 08:32 PM
Ahem...

Nigel Bradham...

that is all.

I think Nigel would be a solid pick too. I like it when I watch a game and certain players stick out even if you don't know them by name at the time..... that was Nigel this year when I watched a couple FSU games.

feltdizz
03-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Those tackle stats are insane.... if Kuechly has decent combine numbers I would take him in a heartbeat. I understaand the whole bad D concept but our D isn't bad. As long as he fills his gap we know he can finish the job.

Shoe
03-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Is Mychal Kendricks not a consideration at our pick in Rd 2? Because I think that would be even better value, considering draft position.

I've thought a lot about it, and Hightower actually reminds me of Lamarr Woodley coming out. I think he's being downgraded to his lack of speed... but he may end up emerging like Woodley has.

I still don't want him, the same reason I didn't want Woodley at the time though. Too slow. :P

focosteeler
03-30-2012, 09:22 PM
Is Mychal Kendricks not a consideration at our pick in Rd 2? Because I think that would be even better value, considering draft position.

I've thought a lot about it, and Hightower actually reminds me of Lamarr Woodley coming out. I think he's being downgraded to his lack of speed... but he may end up emerging like Woodley has.

I still don't want him, the same reason I didn't want Woodley at the time though. Too slow. :P

the way the league is going you cant afford to have a slow ILB. Have to be able to run sideline to sideline. cover tightends and running backs...I love the blitzing potential hightower offers. But he cant do much when it comes to covering guys

Chadman
03-30-2012, 09:43 PM
Is Mychal Kendricks not a consideration at our pick in Rd 2? Because I think that would be even better value, considering draft position.

I've thought a lot about it, and Hightower actually reminds me of Lamarr Woodley coming out. I think he's being downgraded to his lack of speed... but he may end up emerging like Woodley has.

I still don't want him, the same reason I didn't want Woodley at the time though. Too slow. :P

Kendricks looks a good player- but Chadman thinks we might already have "Mychal Kendricks" on the team with Stevenson Sylvester- they look similar players.

Chadman
03-30-2012, 09:49 PM
Also- can understand why some people are not enthralled with Kuechly. Sure, he's a tackling machine, but he seems to lack that 'impact play' ability. He's not exactly going to make you say 'wow'- put it that way.

Hightower has more splash play in him, but he is weaker in other aspects of his game.

A mix of the 2 would be ideal...


(Nigel Bradham)..

Eddie Spaghetti
03-30-2012, 10:12 PM
with all the bad angles timmons takes, having a steady tackler in the middle is exactly what this defense needs.

kuechly would be a no brainer, IMO.

insanesteelersfan
03-30-2012, 11:13 PM
Steelers can select Hightower if they like. Just as long as it is NOT Mike Adams. With that said, I still don't think Hightower is all that. His only halfway decent season was this last one. Was never a fulltime starter til this season. And had several games this season where he was crushed on the field. Jerry Franklin of Arkansas is someone who can be had way down in the draft, 4th, maybe 5th round. And he played great even with two constant blockers on him on every snap practically. Also James-Michael Johnson of Nevada looks like a real underrated ILB. If no rock solid O-Linemen is there at 24, I would rather trade down a bit, get some more lower picks and select from the next group of OL's....Brandon Washington, Zietler, ect.

RuthlessBurgher
03-30-2012, 11:36 PM
Sorry, I'm not going to compare any LB in the draft to Farrior. It's not fair to Farrior..... He was a prototypical 3-4 ILB for so many years and I'm not going to compare a rookie ILB that has never played in the NFL to him. While we're at it, let's start comparing linebackers to Lambert, Ray Lewis or Dick Butkus.

I'm not comparing Kuechly as a player to Farrior. I am rebutting your size argument. You said:


Although Hightower has a bit slower #'s he is carrying more weight. So, if these "other" guys need to gain weight (which they will), would they perform any better than Hightower... probably not

I was questioning why you think that Kuechly needs to gain weight. I think 242 lbs. is essentially ideal for an ILB. I was saying that Farrior was on the low end of the weight spectrum for ILB's (listed at 243 lbs., but in-season, he noted that he often dropped 15-20 lbs. of weight was was playing essentially at a safety weight of 215-220). On the high end of the ILB weight spectrum was Levon Kirkland (listed as 6'1" 275 lbs.), but he was a freak of nature. Does Dont'a Hightower have at 265 lbs. what Kirkland had at 275 lbs.? I was saying that, in the NFL, it is more likely that Hightower might need to drop a little weight than Kuechly would need to gain any.

Kuechly's combine numbers are significantly better than Hightower, showing that he's a more explosive athlete (you can't just write off the difference as being due to Hightower's weight...no one is forcing Hightower to weigh that much...perhaps he should have dropped some of the excess weight before the combine, thereby appearing to be more explosive). Kuechly jumping ability (while dispelling a myth about white boys) displays his explosiveness (38" vertical and 10'3" broad for Luke vs. 33" vertical and 9'9" broad for Dont'a), his 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone shows better change of direction skills and lateral movement (4.12 and 6.92 seconds, respectively, for Luke vs. 4.64 and 7.55 seconds, respectively, for Dont'a), not to mention a full tenth of a second difference in straight line 40 speed (4.58 vs. 4.68). Add in the overwhelming difference in terms of performance (you know, actual production on the field of play), and it's not even a question.

You downplay Kuechly's production because he played on an inferior BC team as compared to Alabama, but don't you think if a guy is making 180-190 tackles a season, that opponents would be keying on him as the one guy that they have to stop (but he keeps performing anyway). On the other hand, Hightower has the benefit of playing with other elite talents like Courtney Upshaw, Mark Barron, Dre Kirkpatrick, Robert Lester, etc. (not to mention Marcel Dareus, Rolando McClain, Terrence Cody, Kareem Jackson, Javier Arenas, etc. in years prior to last year)...it is a little bit easier to roam free if other teams also have to try to key on all of those other animals on your defense and not just you.

I don't hate Hightower, but I don't love him either. I'd take Hightower over Mike Adams, but I think I'd prefer a safety like Mark Barron or a corner like Stephon Gilmore over Hightower, even though we have a more immediate need at ILB than those other secondary positions. There is a legit reason why Kuechly is considered to be a top 15 prospect, while Hightower is a late first guy...I can see it, the experts can see it...I'm not quite sure what you are looking at (your biggest justification of your stance seems to be the "Alabama is way better than B.C." argument which would be somewhat analgous to someone stating that JaMarcus Russell should be a better QB than Ben Roethlisberger because LSU is way better than Miami of Ohio...an obvious exaggeration on my part there, but you get my drift). This is all pretty inconsequential, though...Kuechly is going to be LONG GONE before we get to the podium. If we are somehow able to get him, I'll dance a jig (not as spectacular as my "trade up for DeCastro" jig, but a jig nonetheless), but I just don't see it happening. He should come off the board in the early teens (if not even a team in the latter portion of the top ten).

steelz09
03-31-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm not comparing Kuechly as a player to Farrior. I am rebutting your size argument. You said:
I was questioning why you think that Kuechly needs to gain weight. I think 242 lbs. is essentially ideal for an ILB. I was saying that Farrior was on the low end of the weight spectrum for ILB's (listed at 243 lbs., but in-season, he noted that he often dropped 15-20 lbs. of weight was was playing essentially at a safety weight of 215-220). On the high end of the ILB weight spectrum was Levon Kirkland (listed as 6'1" 275 lbs.), but he was a freak of nature. Does Dont'a Hightower have at 265 lbs. what Kirkland had at 275 lbs.? I was saying that, in the NFL, it is more likely that Hightower might need to drop a little weight than Kuechly would need to gain any.


We'll agree to disagree. I watch so many players come out of college, year in and year out, and they are overpowered physically and it's not just LBs, it just about EVERY position. Most players gain size and bulk... It's just the reality of things. Timmons is a prime example from a LBs perspective. When players gain the size and bulk needed to play their position in the NFL, some lose their speed athleticism. Some players "carry the weight" better than others without it affecting their speed, athleticism, and overall production. Hightower, like Woodley, won't have have that problem. They already had NFL size. In fact, Hightower could probably shed a few pounds of baby fat to become leaner. However, 260/265 sounds like a good weight for someone that is 6-3.



Kuechly's combine numbers are significantly better than Hightower, showing that he's a more explosive athlete (you can't just write off the difference as being due to Hightower's weight...no one is forcing Hightower to weigh that much...perhaps he should have dropped some of the excess weight before the combine, thereby appearing to be more explosive). Kuechly jumping ability (while dispelling a myth about white boys) displays his explosiveness (38" vertical and 10'3" broad for Luke vs. 33" vertical and 9'9" broad for Dont'a), his 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone shows better change of direction skills and lateral movement (4.12 and 6.92 seconds, respectively, for Luke vs. 4.64 and 7.55 seconds, respectively, for Dont'a), not to mention a full tenth of a second difference in straight line 40 speed (4.58 vs. 4.68). Add in the overwhelming difference in terms of performance (you know, actual production on the field of play), and it's not even a question.


No one is forcing Hightower to be that weight? He's at a good weight for his height. I have no problems w/ the #'s Hightower put up at the combine.

I'm not even convinced Kuechly could have started on that Alabama team.



You downplay Kuechly's production because he played on an inferior BC team as compared to Alabama, but don't you think if a guy is making 180-190 tackles a season, that opponents would be keying on him as the one guy that they have to stop (but he keeps performing anyway). On the other hand, Hightower has the benefit of playing with other elite talents like Courtney Upshaw, Mark Barron, Dre Kirkpatrick, Robert Lester, etc. (not to mention Marcel Dareus, Rolando McClain, Terrence Cody, Kareem Jackson, Javier Arenas, etc. in years prior to last year)...it is a little bit easier to roam free if other teams also have to try to key on all of those other animals on your defense and not just you.


That's a valid point but so is mine. You have those "animals" on your team that you have to share your statistics with. And yet, with all that talent, Hightower still stands out as one of the best players on the best defense in the country.

insanesteelersfan
03-31-2012, 12:11 PM
We'll agree to disagree. I watch so many players come out of college, year in and year out, and they are overpowered physically and it's not just LBs, it just about EVERY position. Most players gain size and bulk... It's just the reality of things. Timmons is a prime example from a LBs perspective. When players gain the size and bulk needed to play their position in the NFL, some lose their speed athleticism. Some players "carry the weight" better than others without it affecting their speed, athleticism, and overall production. Hightower, like Woodley, won't have have that problem. They already had NFL size. In fact, Hightower could probably shed a few pounds of baby fat to become leaner. However, 260/265 sounds like a good weight for someone that is 6-3.



No one is forcing Hightower to be that weight? He's at a good weight for his height. I have no problems w/ the #'s Hightower put up at the combine.

I'm not even convinced Kuechly could have started on that Alabama team.



That's a valid point but so is mine. You have those "animals" on your team that you have to share your statistics with. And yet, with all that talent, Hightower still stands out as one of the best players on the best defense in the country.






Hightower did not stand out at all IMHO. He wasn't even a starter before this season. But with that said, your statement on Kuechly not being big enough is ridiculous. 242 Lbs is a good weight. But ones weight has ZERO to do with playing football. Even at 20 Lbs lighter Kuechly is STRONGER, and faster, and a better INSTINCTIVE player then Hightower will ever HOPE to be. And your statement about how Hightower's weight can be dropped a little..( Baby Fat you said )...well first...NO ONE at 23 has " Baby Fat " anymore. And two, what if Hightower goes the OTHER Direction...and eats himself out of the league ???



Dude it's not even worth my time to speak with you. Cause truly ONLY one who is moronic would ever think Hightower has 1/10th the talent that Kuechly has :nono

Chadman
03-31-2012, 12:34 PM
1/10th?

Count Chadman in as moronic then.

RuthlessBurgher
03-31-2012, 02:30 PM
Hightower did not stand out at all IMHO. He wasn't even a starter before this season. But with that said, your statement on Kuechly not being big enough is ridiculous. 242 Lbs is a good weight. But ones weight has ZERO to do with playing football. Even at 20 Lbs lighter Kuechly is STRONGER, and faster, and a better INSTINCTIVE player then Hightower will ever HOPE to be. And your statement about how Hightower's weight can be dropped a little..( Baby Fat you said )...well first...NO ONE at 23 has " Baby Fat " anymore. And two, what if Hightower goes the OTHER Direction...and eats himself out of the league ???



Dude it's not even worth my time to speak with you. Cause truly ONLY one who is moronic would ever think Hightower has 1/10th the talent that Kuechly has :nono

I obviously disagree with steelz09's opinion of Hightower vs. Kuechly, but I try to reason with him (and anyone else) respectfully. You seemed to be on the right track yourself with your analysis in the first paragraph you provided, but then couldn't help but throw in that last sentence, could you?

A word of advice...it is not a good idea to call anyone a moron, but it is particularly in poor taste to do it to the person who created this board, owns this board, and invited all the rest of us to come join him here for some quality Steeler talk. That would be like the neighbors inviting you over for dinner, and because they served tacos instead of spaghetti, you call them idiots.

:nono

insanesteelersfan
03-31-2012, 03:07 PM
I wasn't calling him a Moron per se, just his point was Moronic. Hightower did have a decent season this year. And yes I know playing with alot of other great players MIGHT not allow you to have the stats that a Kuechly has. But on the other hand, having other GREAT players around you on defense can also not allow one single player to gather alot of the offensive teams attention, or double teams. Kuechly on the other hand DID get constant double teams cause he had alot of average defensive teammates around him, and yet he STILL accumulated alot of tackles, and TFL's.



I could understand it if alot of his stats were against poor teams, and if he had average physical ability in his combine times. But he did not. He was very big, and strong..( Stronger then Hightower )...and his football IQ is second to no one in this draft. Now as stated, I don't think that means Hightower also can't be very good. But, based solely on each others pedigree throughout their college playing days, I just can't see why anyone would dare say Hightower, or any other LB is better then Kuechly.


But I meant no personal offense to anyone.

Dee Dub
03-31-2012, 04:42 PM
I obviously disagree with steelz09's opinion of Hightower vs. Kuechly, but I try to reason with him (and anyone else) respectfully. You seemed to be on the right track yourself with your analysis in the first paragraph you provided, but then couldn't help but throw in that last sentence, could you?

A word of advice...it is not a good idea to call anyone a moron, but it is particularly in poor taste to do it to the person who created this board, owns this board, and invited all the rest of us to come join him here for some quality Steeler talk. That would be like the neighbors inviting you over for dinner, and because they served tacos instead of spaghetti, you call them idiots.

:nono

:Clap Well said Ruthless.

Dee Dub
03-31-2012, 05:37 PM
This first part is to steelz09. Love your passion and respect your opinions. You are a good, solid, knowledgable poster but I have to disagree with you on the over emphasis on college players coming into the league and getting over matched. Every year I do this. Here is a list (just off the top of my head--probably forgotting some), of those college players who have come right into the NFL and been anywhere from above average to dominate. This is just in the past 5 to 10 years. You'll notice it is quite a lot.

Julius Peppers
Dwight Freeney
Ed Reed
Terrell Suggs
Sean Taylor
Jonathan Vilma
Will Smith
DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman
Mario Williams
Haloti Ngata
A.J. Hawk
Tamba Hali
Ernie Sims
DeMeco Ryans
Patrick Willis
Darrelle Rivas
Jon Beason
Brian Orakpo
Brian Cushing
Clay Matthews
James Laurinaitis
Jarius Bryd
Ndamukong Suh
Eric Berry
Von Miller
Marcell Dareus
Patrick Peterson
Aldon Smith
J.J. Watt

And the second part of this is for insanesteelerfan. I agree that Kuechly is better overall than Hightower but it isnt as far apart as you make it to be. Kuechly excels and is better in coverage but Hightower is the far better run stuffer and is a better pass rusher. Inside Hightower can be havoc on an inside blitz. He also was used as a pass rushing DE many times by Saban. He is a far better, harder hitter than Kuechly is as well. And to call out Hightower as being only a starter for one year is incorrect and it ignores the fact that he had season ending knee surgery in 2009. But regardless as a red-shirt freshman in 2009 he was a starter before the injury. Also he started in 2010 and last year 2011.

steelz09
04-01-2012, 09:22 PM
Dee Dub,

A few points:

1) I was referring to LBs in particular
2) Some of those guys you listed are barely average but I see where you're going.
3) The "others" on that list are some of the top talent in several years of draft classes... Reed, Willis, Suh, Ngata, Peppers, Revis, Peterson, Eric Berry, etc..... Hightower and Kuechly are not in that class. Your listing guys that have potential to be future HOFers.

Willis is one guy that didn't increase much in size and can still dominate in the NFL. Willis is a unique talent and an exception to this rule and everyone knew it going into the draft. Kuechly isn't at Willis' level.

The majority of the players that aren't absolute physical freaks (you listed many of them) end up gaining bulk at the next level. It's physics, typically when they gain bulk, speed can suffer. Certain players carry the weight better than others.

And for the record, I hope we don't draft Hightower. That's because I hope we're able to get Glenn or another top OL talent in the 1st round. But I also don't have a mancrush on Kuechly like some do.

Dee Dub
04-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Dee Dub,

A few points:


2) Some of those guys you listed are barely average but I see where you're going.



Who on my list is barely average?



3) The "others" on that list are some of the top talent in several years of draft classes... Reed, Willis, Suh, Ngata, Peppers, Revis, Peterson, Eric Berry, etc..... Hightower and Kuechly are not in that class. Your listing guys that have potential to be future HOFers.

Agreed but there are also some mid to late first rounders as well as some second rounders on the list.

Oviedo
04-02-2012, 01:24 PM
This first part is to steelz09. Love your passion and respect your opinions. You are a good, solid, knowledgable poster but I have to disagree with you on the over emphasis on college players coming into the league and getting over matched. Every year I do this. Here is a list (just off the top of my head--probably forgotting some), of those college players who have come right into the NFL and been anywhere from above average to dominate. This is just in the past 5 to 10 years. You'll notice it is quite a lot.

Julius Peppers
Dwight Freeney
Ed Reed
Terrell Suggs
Sean Taylor
Jonathan Vilma
Will Smith
DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman
Mario Williams
Haloti Ngata
A.J. Hawk
Tamba Hali
Ernie Sims
DeMeco Ryans
Patrick Willis
Darrelle Rivas
Jon Beason
Brian Orakpo
Brian Cushing
Clay Matthews
James Laurinaitis
Jarius Bryd
Ndamukong Suh
Eric Berry
Von Miller
Marcell Dareus
Patrick Peterson
Aldon Smith
J.J. Watt

And the second part of this is for insanesteelerfan. I agree that Kuechly is better overall than Hightower but it isnt as far apart as you make it to be. Kuechly excels and is better in coverage but Hightower is the far better run stuffer and is a better pass rusher. Inside Hightower can be havoc on an inside blitz. He also was used as a pass rushing DE many times by Saban. He is a far better, harder hitter than Kuechly is as well. And to call out Hightower as being only a starter for one year is incorrect and it ignores the fact that he had season ending knee surgery in 2009. But regardless as a red-shirt freshman in 2009 he was a starter before the injury. Also he started in 2010 and last year 2011.

How many of those players were forced to sit on the sideline and watch while they "learn" the overly complex defense. I think the bulk of the players you list were 1st season starters and proved a rookie can be an impact player if given the opportunity.

If we are only going to get occasional "guest appearances" by a defensive rookie drafted in Round 1, I would rather draft an Offensive Lineman/player who would have a legit chance to see the field and contribute.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-02-2012, 03:02 PM
conversely, how many of the guys above were drafted onto a team that consistently fields a top 5 defense.

seems we have covered this ground over and over and over, but some people cannot see the forest for the trees.

ikestops85
04-02-2012, 05:05 PM
conversely, how many of the guys above were drafted onto a team that consistently fields a top 5 defense.

seems we have covered this ground over and over and over, but some people cannot see the forest for the trees.

http://tomakeaprairie.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/forest-through-the-trees.jpg?w=584&h=389