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Steelhere10
03-27-2012, 10:46 AM
Ok now , any more questions.. For the ones that doubted MT.

Oviedo
03-27-2012, 11:00 AM
The only ones who ever doubted MT are the ones who will never accept his hiring in the first place for whatever perceptions they have. MT has been nothing but a great choice for a coach for the Steelers.

Crash
03-27-2012, 11:02 AM
I like Tomlin and I still don't buy it.

He's being a good soldier here, a company man. He's not going to admit that his owner stepped on his toes and overruled him.

Steelhere10
03-27-2012, 11:09 AM
You could be right Crash, but from the interview transcript it seemed genuine to me. He also said Haley was also his choice.

Crash
03-27-2012, 11:19 AM
Haley was "his choice" after a nudge from Art II.

If Tomlin had HIS way BA would still be here.

feltdizz
03-27-2012, 11:28 AM
The only ones who ever doubted MT are the ones who will never accept his hiring in the first place for whatever perceptions they have. MT has been nothing but a great choice for a coach for the Steelers.

who needs facts when we have cold hard opinions to rely on? :D

Sugar
03-27-2012, 11:29 AM
Haley was "his choice" after a nudge from Art II.

If Tomlin had HIS way BA would still be here.

That's an interesting statement- I'm curious as to why you would think that.

Crash
03-27-2012, 11:55 AM
That's an interesting statement- I'm curious as to why you would think that.

Because Tomlin told BA more than once that he wanted him back. He also told BA in front of his fellow assistants that he wanted him back.

Do you really think that Tomlin, by choice, would stab BA in the back like that, thus showing his own assistants that they can trust anything their boss says to them?

Think!

toddjammin
03-27-2012, 12:01 PM
I like Mike Tomlin as a coach and think he has done an excellent job. However, I do agree with Crash that Art Rooney probably did push Tomlin to have Arians fired. this is just my humble opinion though.

Oviedo
03-27-2012, 12:02 PM
Because Tomlin told BA more than once that he wanted him back. He also told BA in front of his fellow assistants that he wanted him back.

Do you really think that Tomlin, by choice, would stab BA in the back like that, thus showing his own assistants that they can trust anything their boss says to them?

Think!

So Tomlin can never change his mind or alter plans???????

Sugar
03-27-2012, 12:09 PM
So Tomlin can never change his mind or alter plans???????

That's really what I'm thinking. There's really no conspiracy needed here. Tomlin felt one way immediately post-season and then was able to evaluate the situation more carefully. That seems more likely to me than that he was somehow pressured when both he and Rooney have indicated that he was not.

Eddie Spaghetti
03-27-2012, 12:11 PM
The only ones who ever doubted MT are the ones who will never accept his hiring in the first place for whatever perceptions they have. MT has been nothing but a great choice for a coach for the Steelers.

and yet he continues to keep the senile lebeau around to underachieve on defense year after year.

weird.

Sugar
03-27-2012, 12:14 PM
and yet he continues to keep the senile lebeau around to underachieve on defense year after year.

weird.

Yeah, that Defense that despite the musical chairs at Linebacker somehow managed to be a top 5 D. CRAZY! :o

RuthlessBurgher
03-27-2012, 12:18 PM
Who did it, why they did it, when they did, etc. are all meaningless at this point. It happened. BA's not here and TH is.

It's as pointless as trying to argue whether or not Dan Rooney was responsible for the Roethlisberger pick, or if it was Tomlin who decided on Worilds over Sean Lee. We'll never know the real answer to these things, so why do we continue to debate them anyway? At this point, the facts are the only things that matter, not speculation. The facts are that Haley is a Steeler (Arians is not), Ben is a Steeler (Shawn Andrews is not), and Worilds is a Steeler (Sean Lee is not)...does it really matter how those things might have come to pass (since we'll never know for sure anyway?)

toddjammin
03-27-2012, 12:24 PM
I'm actually excited to see how Todd Haley will run our offense. I predict we will be in the top 10 in scoring this year if Haley utilizes all of our talents on offense.

Sugar
03-27-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm actually excited to see how Todd Haley will run our offense. I predict we will be in the top 10 in scoring this year if Haley utilizes all of our talents on offense.

Barring injuries, any OC who utilizes all of our talents on offense would see them in the top-10, IMO. Let's just hope that Haley is able to do that.

steelz09
03-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Ok now , any more questions.. For the ones that doubted MT.

MT did fire him... after Rooney told him to do it.

Oviedo
03-27-2012, 12:55 PM
That's really what I'm thinking. There's really no conspiracy needed here. Tomlin felt one way immediately post-season and then was able to evaluate the situation more carefully. That seems more likely to me than that he was somehow pressured when both he and Rooney have indicated that he was not.

Me too. Immediately after the emotional loss at Denver to a team you were better than Tomlin wasn't going to throw any players or coaches under the bus. He didn't announce he'd be cutting all the vets they cut either.

However, after time and reflection and probably some discussions with other leaders he very well could have decided that there were just too many signs that things weren't going to improve. That is called making an informed decision. That's what good to great leaders do.

feltdizz
03-27-2012, 12:58 PM
Because Tomlin told BA more than once that he wanted him back. He also told BA in front of his fellow assistants that he wanted him back.

Do you really think that Tomlin, by choice, would stab BA in the back like that, thus showing his own assistants that they can trust anything their boss says to them?

Think!

Tomlin told BA that he wanted him back..... BUT!!!!!

... a week later Tomlin's buddy Caldwell was fired and the next day the rumors of BA getting fired started to circulate.

shortly after that who makes a trip to Pittsburgh?

Think harder!!!

feltdizz
03-27-2012, 01:02 PM
Me too. Immediately after the emotional loss at Denver to a team you were better than Tomlin wasn't going to throw any players or coaches under the bus. He didn't announce he'd be cutting all the vets they cut either.

However, after time and reflection and probably some discussions with other leaders he very well could have decided that there were just too many signs that things weren't going to improve. That is called making an informed decision. That's what good to great leaders do.

Rumors of BA getting the ax started circulating the same day Caldwell was fired.

Mister Pittsburgh
03-27-2012, 01:36 PM
Rumors of BA getting the ax started circulating the same day Caldwell was fired.
:Agree I think Caldwell's firing also triggered the firing of Bruce.

Only thing I still don't get and think was totally botched was the 'Arians retired' bullcrap. If you want to fire a coach then fire a coach and have the balls to say it.

Oviedo
03-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Rumors of BA getting the ax started circulating the same day Caldwell was fired.

The art of decisionmaking. Continually gather information, assess new information, formulate options and then make a decision.

Caldwell was definitely new information at this time.

Oviedo
03-27-2012, 02:04 PM
and yet he continues to keep the senile lebeau around to underachieve on defense year after year.

weird.

No one is perfect or right all the time.

steelz09
03-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Tomlin told BA that he wanted him back..... BUT!!!!!

... a week later Tomlin's buddy Caldwell was fired and the next day the rumors of BA getting fired started to circulate.

shortly after that who makes a trip to Pittsburgh?

Think harder!!!

If Tomlin would have hired Caldwell then it would go down as on of the worst coaching hires in Steelers history ...

Caldwell is a bum. He should thank Peyton Manning for making his career.

RuthlessBurgher
03-27-2012, 03:36 PM
If Tomlin would have hired Caldwell then it would go down as on of the worst coaching hires in Steelers history ...

Caldwell is a bum. He should thank Peyton Manning for making his career.

Hopefully he screws up Flacco, since he is now the QB coach in Baltimore.

Crash
03-27-2012, 03:40 PM
Tomlin told BA that he wanted him back..... BUT!!!!!

... a week later Tomlin's buddy Caldwell was fired and the next day the rumors of BA getting fired started to circulate.

shortly after that who makes a trip to Pittsburgh?

Think harder!!!

And yet, was never offered the job and only became a QB COACH of the Ravens.

pittpete
03-27-2012, 05:58 PM
Who cares if the ballboy fired Arianus.

All that matters is he's gone!!!

flippy
03-27-2012, 06:15 PM
I know Tomlin is calculated. Tomlin chooses his words and actions wisely. Tomlin likely made the call to fire BA.

Tomlin knows he has to push Ben. He also knows he needs Ben. To maintain the best working relationship he probably needed to make people believe Rooney got rid of BA. And Rooney probably went along with it in support of his coach.

Tomlin also probably knew he needed a guy who would push Ben's buttons. And who better than Haley who can clash with anyone while still having a spirit to be driven to succeed.

I also suspect Tomlin instructed Haley not to contact Big Ben after signing on. That was such a Tomlin move if there ever was one. It's similar to calling Wallace a One Trick Pony to push him. This was a tactic to push Ben.

This all boils down to Tomlin pushing Ben to greatness by any means necessary. He's doing it in a similar way to the way he plays us and the media and his players every week.

Tomlin doesn't want anyone to believe or know how much control he has. That would take away some of his power.

fezziwig
03-27-2012, 07:05 PM
I have lots of respect for Tomlin. I don't see him beating around the bush and I doubt he would lie. The whole thing about, he wants him back, he'll be back, he's going to retire just really throws a monkeywrench into what is or isn't true. Possibly after the smoke cleared Tomlin decided Arians should be fired. Maybe after he seen a guy like Tebow slice up the Steelers maybe, he thought Ben with a better team should have torched the Broncos ? 'Maybe, he wanted to please Mr. Rooney and get rid of the bum ?
I personally think Rooney wasn't happy, Tomlin knew it and then decided to get rid of Arians.
The best part of all this is, Arians is finally gone.
Now for Lebeau.......I blame the Broncos loss on his shoulders for acting like Tebow was playing without arms. Tebow had the best game of his career and probably the biggest win in and for his life as a NFL QB and he can thank Lebeau. I love what Lebeau has done for our team but, he needs to take some heat once in a while too. Our team was old last season and no one wants to admit, we will be in rebuilding mode for another season or two. More than the offense, the defense needs to get younger and better talent.
Troys on the decline so is Ike, Kiesel, Foote, Hampton and the youth of the d-line is still having growing pains. We will be lucky to get to one more Super Bowl with Ben as our quarterback.

Crash
03-28-2012, 12:46 AM
Ben doesn't need his buttons pushed. What he needs is to be valued by this franchise as the HOF talent he is and they need to quit trying to create 1975 football.

Arians is gone, and yet this team still tendered the worthless David Johnson a contract. I guess that was BA's fault too?

The NAME of the OC won't matter, if the owner's still obsessed with playing like they did 40 years ago.

fordfixer
03-28-2012, 02:00 AM
On the Steelers: Tomlin claims responsibility for releasing, hiring new coordinator
March 28, 2012 12:00


http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-tomlin-claims-responsibility-for-releasing-hiring-new-coordinator-628372/?p=0



By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Mike did it.
Long after Bruce Arians was pushed into "retirement" and the Steelers hired Todd Haley to replace him, coach Mike Tomlin stood up and claimed responsibility for both deeds.
It wasn't Art Rooney II with the broom in the boardroom, but the head coach who swept out Arians as his offensive coordinator and offered the job to Haley.
And those who doubt those stories don't have a clue, at least that's how Tomlin sees it.
"I thought that it was time for change," Tomlin said Tuesday, speaking about the subject publicly for the first time.
"We're moving into a situation here where we have an opportunity to grow and develop some young talent offensively. It's awesome to have an opportunity to maybe have the division of some common opponents -- people who are comfortable with how you play football -- get uncomfortable. That's what's going to happen to us this year. We're excited about that.
"More than anything, I'm not going to apologize for change. That's football. I think all of us in this industry understand that, and our intentions are that it changed for the better."
The Steelers announced Jan. 20 that Arians had "retired." They announced Haley's hiring Feb. 7. A story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that Tomlin had told Arians he wanted him back and that Arians wanted to return but that Rooney put the brakes to that.
Tomlin stated emphatically that both decisions were his, that neither came at the behest of the Steelers president.
"He didn't," Tomlin said of Rooney having influence in Arians leaving. "I don't know where some of these perceptions come from. I don't break my neck to try to combat them in any way. I don't know where they come from.
"And I hired Todd Haley as well, which is your next question, which is another funny one to me. And don't get me wrong, of course, Art Rooney owns the football team, he can do what he wants to do, but those directives did not happen."
Tomlin held a news conference the day after the Steelers lost a playoff game Jan. 8 in Denver -- stating that day he thought both coordinators would return for 2012. He has been mostly silent since then in his public discourse. He made a few remarks when Haley was introduced at a news conference but took no questions. He also has been interviewed on Steelers.com, the team's website, about some matters.
During the nearly hour-long interview at an AFC coaches breakfast as part of the NFL meetings, Tomlin touched on a number of different topics, nearly all of them for the first time:
He expects Haley and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to have a good relationship. "I'm not worried ... I don't anticipate any issues. I anticipate both guys getting along great."
Marcus Gilbert, who started at right tackle as a rookie, will definitely move to left tackle because of the return of Willie Colon.
"We fully expect him to ... I probably had more concerns about him being the right tackle than I did him being at left tackle, just because of his college experience."
While he likes the "men" behind injured running back Rashard Mendenhall, "I'm sure we're going to get a running back in some form or fashion" in free agency or the draft.
Haley's new playbook will include new terminology the players and coaches must learn and maybe a fullback, but there will be no overhaul in the blocking schemes.
"It's been fun. Todd is very flexible, he's very sound in his approach. We've had awesome discussions in terms of building it. ... We're going to build our attack around the strengths of our men.
"Obviously Ben is a talented guy, we've got some talented receivers, we've got an interesting group of running back prospects, we're putting together an offensive line. So we're laying down the fundamental basis of how we'll approach it, what's going to be us regardless of circumstance."
The Steelers want to acquire "a young quarterback in some form or fashion" but they are not looking to groom someone for the day when Roethlisberger leaves.
He was blunt regarding the history of injuries to wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders and Colon, and whether they can remain healthy for long periods. Colon has missed all but one game of the past two seasons with Achilles and arm injuries. Sanders has had several surgeries on his feet and a knee, including a postseason foot operation this year.
"You can't anticipate it's going to stop," he said of Sanders' injuries, although maintaining he is on track to recovery from his latest surgery. "The same could be said for Willie Colon."
He equated Rooney's statement that Roethlisberger needs to "tweak" his game as merely for him to "evolve." He said he does not think Roethlisberger's ability to maneuver in and out of the pocket has been diminished because of his age (30).
"I don't think we are at that point. I think that point is somewhere in the future, you acknowledge that. He is probably one of the older guys we have on the offense, so there is something to be said for that. But I don't think we are to the point where he is diminishing physically to where we have to alter his game from that perspective."
Three draft prospects, besides those from Pitt, have made official visits to the Steelers: Ohio State offensive tackle Mike Adams, Florida International wide receiver T.Y. Hilton and Cincinnati defensive lineman Derek Wolfe.
Formal workouts with players will begin April 16, as provided by in the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, which has reduced the number of spring practices (organized team activities) from 14 to 10, plus a three-day minicamp. OTAs will start May 22 and the spring practices will end with minicamp May 12-14.
He has not thought about whether a team will sign Mike Wallace as a restricted free agent. They have until April 20 to do so and the Steelers have the right to match it and keep him.
"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it -- if we come to it."
He continued to report upbeat progress on running backs coach Kirby Wilson, who was severely burned Jan. 6 in a kitchen fire. Wilson left the hospital more than a week ago and is "attacking rehab." Tomlin expects him to return to his staff this year.
Nose tackle Casey Hampton could open the season on physically unable to perform list, and if that's the case, Tomlin said Steve McLendon is starter-capable and Ziggy Hood would be a possibility, as would someone else who might be signed or drafted. But he said they are approaching it as if Hampton will play.
For more on the Steelers, read the blog, Ed Bouchette on the Steelers at www.post-gazette.com/plus (http://www.post-gazette.com/plus). Ed Bouchette: ebouchette@post-gazette.com and Twitter @EdBouchette.
First Published 2012-03-28 04:22:00

fordfixer
03-28-2012, 02:02 AM
Tomlin: Decisions to replace Arians, hire Haley were his
March 27, 2012 5:19 pm
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/tomlin-decisions-to-replace-arians-hire-haley-were-his-628266/?p=0

By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Taking questions from reporters today for the first time since Jan. 9, Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin was adamant that it was his decision to let Bruce Arians go as offensive coordinator and then hire Todd Haley to replace him.

"I thought that it was time for change," Tomlin said this morning, speaking about the subject publicly for the first time. "We're moving into a situation here where we have an opportunity to grow and develop some young talent offensively. It's awesome to have an opportunity to maybe have the division of some common opponents -- people who are comfortable with how you play football -- get uncomfortable. That's what's going to happen to us this year. We're excited about that.

"More than anything, I'm not going to apologize for change. That's football. I think all of us in this industry understand that, and our intentions are that it changed for the better."

The Steelers announced Jan. 20 that Arians had "retired." They announced Haley's hiring Feb. 7.

Arians agreed to join the coaching staff of the Indianapolis Colts a little more than a week after leaving the Steelers.

Tomlin stated emphatically that both decisions were his, that neither came at the behest of Steelers president Art Rooney II.

"He didn't," Tomlin said of Rooney having influence in Arians leaving. "I don't know where some of these perceptions come from. I don't break my neck to try to combat them in any way. I don't know where they come from.

"And I hired Todd Haley as well, which is your next question, which is another funny one to me. And don't get me wrong, of course, Art Rooney owns the football team, he can do what he wants to do, but those directives did not happen."

Tomlin held a press conference the day after the Steelers lost a playoff game in Denver Jan. 8 and has been mostly silent since then in public.

He made a few remarks when Haley was introduced at a press conference but took no questions. He also has been interviewed on Steelers.com, the team's website, about some matters.

During the nearly hour-long interview at an AFC coaches breakfast as part of the NFL meetings, Tomlin touched on a number of different topics, nearly all of them for the first time:

• He expects Haley and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to have a good relationship.

"I'm not worried ... I don't anticipate any issues. I anticipate both guys getting along great."

• While he likes the "men" behind the injured Rashard Mendenhall at running back, "I'm sure we're going to get a running back in some form or fashion" in free agency or the draft.

• Haley's new playbook will include new nomenclature the players and coaches must learn and maybe a fullback, but there will be no overhaul in the blocking schemes.

"It's been fun. Todd is very flexible, he's very sound in his approach. We've had awesome discussions in terms of building it ... We're going to build our attack around the strengths of our men.

"Obviously Ben is a talented guy, we've got some talented receivers, we've got an interesting group of running back prospects, we're putting together an offensive line. So we're laying down the fundamental basis of how we'll approach it, what's going to be us regardless of circumstance."

• The Steelers want to acquire "a young quarterback in some form or fashion" but they are not looking to groom someone for the day when Roethlisberger leaves.

• He was blunt on the ability of both wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders and tackle Willie Colon to remain healthy for longer periods. Colon has missed all but one game of the past two seasons with achilles and arm injuries. Sanders has had several surgeries on his feet and a knee, including a post-season foot operation.

"You can't anticipate it's going to stop," he said of Sanders' injuries, although maintaining he is on track to recover from his latest surgery. "The same could be said for Willie Colon."

• He equated Rooney's statement that Roethlisberger needs to "tweak" his game as merely for him to "evolve." He said he does not think Roethlisberger's ability to maneuver in and out of the pocket has been diminished at age 30.

• Three draft prospects, besides those from Pitt, have made official visits to the Steelers: Ohio State OT Mike Adams, Florida International WR T.Y. Hilton and Cincinnati DL Derek Wolfe.

• The formal workouts with players will begin April 16, as provided for in the NFL's collective-bargaining agreement, which has reduced the number of spring practices (OTAs) from 14 to 10, plus a three-day minicamp. OTAs will start May 22 and the spring practices will end with minicamp May 12-14.

• He has not thought about whether a team will sign Mike Wallace or not as a restricted free agent. They have until April 20 to do so and the Steelers have the right to match it and keep him.

"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it -- if we come to it."

• Tomlin continued to report upbeat progress on Kirby Wilson, who was severely burned in a kitchen fire Jan. 6. Wilson left the hospital more than a week ago and is "attacking rehab." Tomlin expects him to return to his staff as running backs coach this year.

• Nose tackle Casey Hampton could open the season on the physically unable to perform list, and if that's the case, Tomlin said Steve McLendon is starter capable and Ziggy Hood would be a possibility, as would someone else who might be signed or drafted.

Tomlin said the team is approaching the situation as if Hampton will play.

fordfixer
03-28-2012, 02:16 AM
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/03/27/exclusive-mike-tomlin-on-todd-haley-more/

Exclusive: Mike Tomlin On Todd Haley & More
March 27, 2012 5:09 PM

KDKA's Bob Pompeani talks about the Steelers' off-season changes in an exclusive interview with Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin.
Credit: KDKA-TV


PALM BEACH, Fla. (KDKA) There have been plenty of changes for the Steelers this off-season, perhaps most notably, the release and subsequent retirement of veteran wide receiver Hines Ward after 14 seasons with the franchise.

But before this was the firing of Bruce Arians and the appointment of former Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley as the new offensive coordinator.

KDKAs Bob Popmeani caught up with Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin at the NFL Owners Meeting in Palm Beach, Fla., for an exclusive interview.

Ill start by saying Art Rooney owns the football team so obviously he has the autonomy to do what he wants, Tomlin said. But some of those reports that were reported regarding the changes are just quite simply untrue. I made the decision to make the change from an offensive coordinator standpoint. I made the decision to hire Todd Haley.

Its an enjoyable process for me. I like the process of evaluating and building and thats what the acquisition of coaches is for me and players for that matter, Tomlin continued. Todds an impressive guy. Ive enjoyed getting to know him on a personal level and working with him on a day-to-day basis. Im really excited about where were going.

Pompeani: He seems to me as I said to you earlier, a tough love kind of guy. He also shows his emotions on the sidelines. You like those qualities?

Tomlin: No question. You know, thats part of this game. This is an emotional game played by emotional men and you know I think thats going to help us.

The Steelers expect Mike Wallace to help them again if hes here and for now, thats an if. His motivational level should be extremely high because hed be playing for a contract, but there is a chance Wallace could price himself out of Pittsburgh.

Obviously we want Mike Wallace on our football team, Tomlin said. Hes a valued member of our football team. Hes a quality young man and person. Hes a good worker. This process is what it is. Its the business arm of it. Well cross that bridge when we come to it, but as we sit right now, hes a part of us and were looking forward to that.

Stay with KDKA for more of the exclusive interview with Mike Tomlin.

feltdizz
03-28-2012, 08:34 AM
And yet, was never offered the job and only became a QB COACH of the Ravens.

Tomlin probably realized how bad Caldwell was 3 minutes into the interview.

feltdizz
03-28-2012, 08:40 AM
Tomlin is lying... we know how it really went down because we weren't there. :cool:

Ghost
03-28-2012, 09:45 AM
As long as the Steelers look as if they haven't suddenly forgotten how to move the ball as soon as the enter the red zone; who gives a rat's a$$ who fired whom. I'm jacked up to see what Haley brings to the table and how he works with the talent he's got. I think this will be an exciting season and they will actually be able to punch it in when they are close!

Oviedo
03-28-2012, 09:58 AM
as long as the steelers look as if they haven't suddenly forgotten how to move the ball as soon as the enter the red zone; who gives a rat's a$$ who fired whom. I'm jacked up to see what haley brings to the table and how he works with the talent he's got. I think this will be an exciting season and they will actually be able to punch it in when they are close!

wisdom!!!!!!!

RuthlessBurgher
03-28-2012, 10:11 AM
Awesome news! Way to go, Coach Kirby!


• Tomlin continued to report upbeat progress on Kirby Wilson, who was severely burned in a kitchen fire Jan. 6. Wilson left the hospital more than a week ago and is "attacking rehab." Tomlin expects him to return to his staff as running backs coach this year.

Crash
03-28-2012, 11:59 AM
As long as the Steelers look as if they haven't suddenly forgotten how to move the ball as soon as the enter the red zone; who gives a rat's a$$ who fired whom. I'm jacked up to see what Haley brings to the table and how he works with the talent he's got. I think this will be an exciting season and they will actually be able to punch it in when they are close!

And the minute they they throw the ball 3 times in three red zone plays people will start bitching that they aren't running enough.

RuthlessBurgher
03-28-2012, 12:44 PM
And the minute they they throw the ball 3 times in three red zone plays people will start bitching that they aren't running enough.

If they throw 3 times in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.
If they run 3 times in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.
If they throw 2 times and run 1 time in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.
If they run 2 times and throw 1 time in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.

If they score, people could care less whether it was through the air or on the ground.

Eich
03-28-2012, 12:58 PM
If they throw 3 times in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.
If they run 3 times in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.
If they throw 2 times and run 1 time in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.
If they run 2 times and throw 1 time in the red zone, and we don't score, people will whine.

If they score, people could care less whether it was through the air or on the ground.


Oh - so you're saying it's the "NOT Scoring" part that people whine about and not that we don't run enough !


How about this.... Anytime anyone says or whines about something that remotely has anything to do with Ben, Crash will whine! :)

Note to Crash: Fans are fickle! Anytime things don't go well (ie scoring), fans will call for whatever you aren't currently doing. It's why the backup QB on any team becomes the most popular guy when the starter is struggling.

Crash
03-28-2012, 01:35 PM
Note to Crash: Fans are fickle! Anytime things don't go well (ie scoring), fans will call for whatever you aren't currently doing.

In 2007 Ben threw 32 TD passes in 15 games and Willie Parker was leading the league in rushing before he got hurt and people were still whining that they threw the ball too much and didn't play "Stiller Football".

The offense gets the heat, where the defense gets a free pass.

Just the way it is.

RuthlessBurgher
03-28-2012, 01:47 PM
In 2007 Ben threw 32 TD passes in 15 games and Willie Parker was leading the league in rushing before he got hurt and people were still whining that they threw the ball too much and didn't play "Stiller Football".

The offense gets the heat, where the defense gets a free pass.

Just the way it is.

Did we win anything in 2007? No, we lost to Jacksonville in the wildcard round.

We played "Stiller football" in 2005 and 2008...that is championship football.

How we rank in rushing offense or passing defense or whatever is inconsequential.

Did our season end with a Rooney holding a Lombardi trophy? That's what matters.

squidkid
03-28-2012, 04:00 PM
why is it when tomlin does his pressers and says 'nothing', we are told that tomlin is a master are fooling the media by not giving them anything informative or substantial, but when he makes the statement that he is the only one running this team in terms of who gets fired and who gets hired, we are suppose to believethat he is now telling the truth?

feltdizz
03-28-2012, 04:20 PM
why is it when tomlin does his pressers and says 'nothing', we are told that tomlin is a master are fooling the media by not giving them anything informative or substantial, but when he makes the statement that he is the only one running this team in terms of who gets fired and who gets hired, we are suppose to believethat he is now telling the truth?

Are you one of those guys who goes to Vegas and snitches on his friends when their wives ask what you did in Vegas?

Slapstick
03-28-2012, 07:35 PM
why is it when tomlin does his pressers and says 'nothing', we are told that tomlin is a master are fooling the media by not giving them anything informative or substantial, but when he makes the statement that he is the only one running this team in terms of who gets fired and who gets hired, we are suppose to believethat he is now telling the truth?

I can not disagree more strongly...

When Tomlin does a presser, especially post-game, he states things bluntly and succinctly...that is vastly different from saying "nothing"...

If the Steelers lose and he says something like:

"We didn't make the significant plays needed to win the game. We accept responsibility for that. We will review the tape, make corrections and look ahead to next week."

Rather than being considered honest, which he was, he is accused of saying "nothing"...I don't get it...

Sugar
03-28-2012, 08:51 PM
I can not disagree more strongly...

When Tomlin does a presser, especially post-game, he states things bluntly and succinctly...that is vastly different from saying "nothing"...

If the Steelers lose and he says something like:

"We didn't make the significant plays needed to win the game. We accept responsibility for that. We will review the tape, make corrections and look ahead to next week."

Rather than being considered honest, which he was, he is accused of saying "nothing"...I don't get it...
:Agree

I like that Tomlin is professional and says what needs to be said and seldom more than that.

Crash
03-28-2012, 09:28 PM
Did we win anything in 2007? No, we lost to Jacksonville in the wildcard round.

We played "Stiller football" in 2005 and 2008...that is championship football.

How we rank in rushing offense or passing defense or whatever is inconsequential.

Did our season end with a Rooney holding a Lombardi trophy? That's what matters.

MY opinion of Steeler Football is the same as yours: Winning.

Unfortunately, too many idiots think that Steeler Football means you have to run the ball all day.

Oviedo
03-29-2012, 07:54 AM
I can not disagree more strongly...

When Tomlin does a presser, especially post-game, he states things bluntly and succinctly...that is vastly different from saying "nothing"...

If the Steelers lose and he says something like:

"We didn't make the significant plays needed to win the game. We accept responsibility for that. We will review the tape, make corrections and look ahead to next week."

Rather than being considered honest, which he was, he is accused of saying "nothing"...I don't get it...

I totally agree. The media is a distraction from what Tomlin's job is. Feeding them information is not important to building a winning football. It is an annoyance and necessary evil. Why should Tomlin make it entertaining or provide soundbites for the media? So they can write articles for us to post here and discuss?

If I were a coach talking to the media would be like going to get a root canal. Just get it over with.

Oviedo
03-29-2012, 07:56 AM
MY opinion of Steeler Football is the same as yours: Winning.

Unfortunately, too many idiots think that Steeler Football means you have to run the ball all day.

That's because too many fans think we still have Jerome Bettis and the rules are the same as the 1970s. Too many think their high school "glory days" represent what football is. Running teams in 2012 are losing teams. You can't win a championship in 2012 by running the ball because you can't keep up scoring wise with teams who have fully embraced a wide open passing offense.

Slapstick
03-29-2012, 08:37 AM
Running the ball all day is not the same as running the ball effectively...

You can have a wide open passing offense, but if you can't convert a 3rd and short, your wide open passing offense goes to the sideline...

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 09:47 AM
Running the ball all day is not the same as running the ball effectively...

You can have a wide open passing offense, but if you can't convert a 3rd and short, your wide open passing offense goes to the sideline...

Bingo!

It also means being able to push the ball into the endzone when we get inside the 5 yard line.
It also means giving the defense a breather when they come off the field after chasing QBs and Receivers who they can't hit anymore.
It also means being able to control the ball when we have a lead late in the game.

Crash
03-29-2012, 09:52 AM
It also means being able to control the ball when we have a lead late in the game.

That hasn't been the issue. The issue this team has on defense is giving up too many scores, RIGHT AFTER the Steelers score themselves.

But rather than bash the precious defense, the offense somehow gets blamed.

You can't protect the defense all game. At some point they DO have to get back on the field and do their job.

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 10:23 AM
[/COLOR]That hasn't been the issue. The issue this team has on defense is giving up too many scores, RIGHT AFTER the Steelers score themselves.

But rather than bash the precious defense, the offense somehow gets blamed.

You can't protect the defense all game. At some point they DO have to get back on the field and do their job.

Well then please list all of the other defenses that have been better than our 'precious defense' over the last 5 years. It's kinda hard to blame a unit that DOES do it's job on a regular basis and is consistently ranked in the top 5.

Crash
03-29-2012, 10:30 AM
Their ranking means nothing to me. That's the problem fans have. Fantasy football logic has destroyed situational football.

This all started after 2009. That year the defense gave up scores in the 4th quarter following Steelers scores (and went 14 games without a CB having a pick) and somehow Bruce Arians got blamed for it.

And the offense has been erratic ever since.

Oviedo
03-29-2012, 10:37 AM
[/COLOR]That hasn't been the issue. The issue this team has on defense is giving up too many scores, RIGHT AFTER the Steelers score themselves.

But rather than bash the precious defense, the offense somehow gets blamed.

You can't protect the defense all game. At some point they DO have to get back on the field and do their job.

I have been saying the same thing for a couple of years now but there seems to be a ridiculous standard set for the offense while the defense gets a pass no matter how great the failure.

The problem with our defense is that it seems to be feast or famine. If we can't get to the QB we aren't successful. If we can we do well. That is natural but our problem is that we don't do it against good teams and we pad our stats against lesser teams. Many will vehemently disagree, but IMO the problem is that we are predictable on defense and good teams can handle that. Be honest, if you watch all the game can't you guess with a 80%+ accuracy exactly when Woodley and Harrison are going to rush? You don't think the other teams can too?

We use inside blitzes and blitzes from the DBs way to infrequently,and having our DL control the line of scrimmage just plays into the hands of good teams that pass more and more on 1st and 2nd down. But that's the offenses fault too.

grotonsteel
03-29-2012, 10:47 AM
Bingo!

It also means being able to push the ball into the endzone when we get inside the 5 yard line.
It also means giving the defense a breather when they come off the field after chasing QBs and Receivers who they can't hit anymore.
It also means being able to control the ball when we have a lead late in the game.

Steelers Offense never had issue with ball control. Never. Steelers Offense suffered because stupid BA went with Run-Run-Pass offense once Steelers got a lead. I believe the reason BA did was to give Defense breather. Defense complained in 2009 about Offense scoring quick and they still complain why Offense don't run the ball more.

Steelers Offense issue was red zone offense and the reason it failed was because you got an OC who insisted on running the ball in red zone when your RB is going for 3.8 ypc and your O-line sucks. Big Fail.

Your strength is your QB. Keep the ball in his hands. Haley should do well if he follows this.

Air it out more and have 3-4 WR sets majority of the game. If Steelers Offense become quick strike offense so be it.

RuthlessBurgher
03-29-2012, 10:47 AM
Their ranking means nothing to me. That's the problem fans have. Fantasy football logic has destroyed situational football.

What does defensive ranking (yards a team gives up relative to other teams) have to do with fantasy football? I've never heard of a yards-against ranking having anything to do whatsoever with fantasy football. Nice try though...when someone disagrees with you, it's easier to just blame a "fantasy football mentality" whether or not the discussion at hand has anything to do with fantasy football stats at all.

Crash
03-29-2012, 10:48 AM
My favorite excuse for the defense is when a top QB shreds them it's "[Enter QBs name here] does that to everybody". Or "The other guys are paid too".

I guess the defenses the Steelers' offense's face are playing for free.

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 11:00 AM
Their ranking means nothing to me. That's the problem fans have. Fantasy football logic has destroyed situational football.

This all started after 2009. That year the defense gave up scores in the 4th quarter following Steelers scores (and went 14 games without a CB having a pick) and somehow Bruce Arians got blamed for it.

And the offense has been erratic ever since.

Throw rankings out ... where is your list of teams that have had a better defense than the Steelers have put on the field over the last 5 years? If our defense is so bad you should be able to whip out a list of at least 10 teams that have done better.

Crash
03-29-2012, 11:11 AM
In the 4th quarter our defense stinks, and has for years.

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 11:15 AM
In the 4th quarter our defense stinks, and has for years.

But you still haven't answered the question. Name the teams that have a better defense than us over the last 5 years.

Crash
03-29-2012, 11:18 AM
But you still haven't answered the question. Name the teams that have a better defense than us over the last 5 years.In the 4th quarter? I would bet plenty. You are proving my point. You are too preoccupied with their ranking. I worry more about WHO and WHEN they beat teams, not just where they rank. I could care less that they beat up on Jason Campbell and Colt McCoy, when in their last two PLAYOFF GAMES they have given up 620 passing yards and 5 TD passes.

flippy
03-29-2012, 11:45 AM
Consistency in the running game is every team's best defense.

Crash
03-29-2012, 11:46 AM
Tell that to the Giants. Where were they ranked again in 2011?

birtikidis
03-29-2012, 11:47 AM
Over the past ten years, I can say that there isn't one teams defense I'd rather have than ours. The Ravens are the only team that even comes close to the consistency ours does. Maybe if we didn't see bubble screen, sack, bomb every drive we'd be more happy. Our situational football on OFFENSE has been terrible since Bruce Arians became offensive coordinator. Add in the fact that the rules lean in favor of the offense and I'd say that the standard for the defense has become ridiculous. We could set every record in the book and Ovi and Crash would still dislike Lebeau.

Crash
03-29-2012, 11:54 AM
I dislike LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme. It sucks. It sucked in 1988 with Cincy, it sucked with Cowher, it sucks with Tomlin. And if Tomlin were fired tomorrow and Russ Grimm were hired? It would suck with him too.

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 12:00 PM
In the 4th quarter? I would bet plenty. You are proving my point. You are too preoccupied with their ranking. I worry more about WHO and WHEN they beat teams, not just where they rank. I could care less that they beat up on Jason Campbell and Colt McCoy, when in their last two PLAYOFF GAMES they have given up 620 passing yards and 5 TD passes.

I'm asking you to name the teams that have had a better defense than the Steelers over the last 5 years ... that's all. So instead of going off on tangents just list the teams you think are better.

Oh, and last year we gave up an average of 3.56 points in the 4th quarter. Damn, the opponents really crushed us. :rolleyes:

Crash
03-29-2012, 12:03 PM
I'm asking you to name the teams that have had a better defense than the Steelers over the last 5 years ... that's all. So instead of going off on tangents just list the teams you think are better.Oh, and last year we gave up an average of 3.56 points in the 4th quarter. Damn, the opponents really crushed us. :rolleyes:How many leads have they blown in the 4th quarter since LeBeau came back? I would say it's close to 30, if not more. But hey, they can beat up Colt McCoy. Too bad they couldn't stop Joe Flacco with the division on the line huh? You prove my point every time you post on this subject.

RuthlessBurgher
03-29-2012, 12:24 PM
Tell that to the Giants. Where were they ranked again in 2011?

So you bring up defensive ranking when it suits your argument, and dismiss defensive ranking when it does not. Well played.

Crash
03-29-2012, 12:34 PM
So you bring up defensive ranking when it suits your argument, and dismiss defensive ranking when it does not. Well played.Last in the league in rushing isn't consistent at all. It's no where near the word. It's a passing league now. In fact, BOTH rushing leaders in each conference (McCoy, MJD) in 2011 missed the playoffs. You win with QBs and wide outs on offense, you win with QB pressure and corner back play on defense. Stopping the run isn't that important anymore. You have to defend the pass and hit quarterbacks.

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 12:45 PM
How many leads have they blown in the 4th quarter since LeBeau came back? I would say it's close to 30, if not more. But hey, they can beat up Colt McCoy. Too bad they couldn't stop Joe Flacco with the division on the line huh? You prove my point every time you post on this subject.

Let's keep this simple ... please list them.

Crash
03-29-2012, 12:52 PM
Let's keep this simple ... please list them.No your right, the Steelers 4th quarter defense is awesome. They haven't blown three 4th quarter leads to the Ravens since 2009. They didn't blow a 20-7 lead in XLIII. They didn't allow the Ravens in the first game in 2008 to tie the score either. Didn't let something called Curtis Painter go 80 yards in Indy last season also. Miami in 2010. Oakland, Cincy, Chicago, KC, in 2009, that didn't happen either. Need to stop ONE PLAY to beat the Jags in the playoffs? Nope, that didn't happen either. It's all a friggin mirage.

Oviedo
03-29-2012, 12:56 PM
Over the past ten years, I can say that there isn't one teams defense I'd rather have than ours. The Ravens are the only team that even comes close to the consistency ours does. Maybe if we didn't see bubble screen, sack, bomb every drive we'd be more happy. Our situational football on OFFENSE has been terrible since Bruce Arians became offensive coordinator. Add in the fact that the rules lean in favor of the offense and I'd say that the standard for the defense has become ridiculous. We could set every record in the book and Ovi and Crash would still dislike Lebeau.

Set the record book straight. Ovi has no dislike for LeBeau since I don't know him.

What Ovi dislikes is a scheme where the DL is rendered ineffective by the stop the run first mentality in a league where more and more teams are passing on first down. I have always articulated my preference for an attcaking DL like the Giants. That has been consistent in my opinions. I don't like 8-10 yard buffers by DBs. I don't like taking 2-3 years to teach a young player how to play a defense or convert them from their natural positions. I don't like the lack of adjustments that happen on defense while we wait for the splash play that never occurs (see Denver game in 2011). This is fairly complete list of my dislikes so feel free to use them when criticizing me for accuracy.

None of this has anything to do with a personal dislike of Lebeau anymore than people who don't know Arians hate him personally because of bubble screens, but the easy default is mean old Ovi does like the kindly old grandfather who is a legend. I'm sure I would love LeBeau if I knew him but I wouldn't think everything we do on defense is flawless.

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 01:03 PM
No your right, the Steelers 4th quarter defense is awesome. They haven't blown three 4th quarter leads to the Ravens since 2009. They didn't blow a 20-7 lead in XLIII. They didn't allow the Ravens in the first game in 2008 to tie the score either. Didn't let something called Curtis Painter go 80 yards in Indy last season also. Miami in 2010. Oakland, Cincy, Chicago, KC, in 2009, that didn't happen either. Need to stop ONE PLAY to beat the Jags in the playoffs? Nope, that didn't happen either. It's all a friggin mirage.

It's about time you see the light :lol:

ikestops85
03-29-2012, 01:13 PM
Set the record book straight. Ovi has no dislike for LeBeau since I don't know him.

What Ovi dislikes is a scheme where the DL is rendered ineffective by the stop the run first mentality in a league where more and more teams are passing on first down. I have always articulated my preference for an attcaking DL like the Giants. That has been consistent in my opinions. I don't like 8-10 yard buffers by DBs. I don't like taking 2-3 years to teach a young player how to play a defense or convert them from their natural positions. I don't like the lack of adjustments that happen on defense while we wait for the splash play that never occurs (see Denver game in 2011). This is fairly complete list of my dislikes so feel free to use them when criticizing me for accuracy.

None of this has anything to do with a personal dislike of Lebeau anymore than people who don't know Arians hate him personally because of bubble screens, but the easy default is mean old Ovi does like the kindly old grandfather who is a legend. I'm sure I would love LeBeau if I knew him but I wouldn't think everything we do on defense is flawless.

I think we all realize when we say that you don't like LeBeau we mean his coaching philosophy and not him personally. The same applies when people criticize Arians. I just have a hard time throwing criticism LeBeau's way when I can't name a team that has done better defensively than the Steelers under him. The Ratbirds would be the only team I would even mention in the discussion.

birtikidis
03-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Ovi, in most 3-4 schemes it's not on the DL to get the pressure. That's why guys like JH and LW get the big money, because they get the pressure. Seriously we are almost always in the top third in the league in sacks but ppl complain that we don't get enough pressure. Our scoring defense is amazing. Our rush defense is ridiculous. We just haven't had a guy like Woodson on the team since he left.. and we won't because we always play late into the playoffs. Other teams are mimicing DL because it works, not bc the media pumps him up. What exactly would you change? REALLY CHANGE. Me? Nothing. I love seeing teams have to guess which LB is coming. I love seeing the VAST MAJORITY of running backs fall down shortly after getting the ball. Schematically I wouldn't change anything. I would like to see a true cover corner lining up. one that can pick the ball off.. of course I don't want to see us have a bad enough season that one is available when we pick. I truely enjoy winning. it's fun.

RuthlessBurgher
03-29-2012, 03:05 PM
Ovi, in most 3-4 schemes it's not on the DL to get the pressure. That's why guys like JH and LW get the big money, because they get the pressure. Seriously we are almost always in the top third in the league in sacks but ppl complain that we don't get enough pressure. Our scoring defense is amazing. Our rush defense is ridiculous. We just haven't had a guy like Woodson on the team since he left.. and we won't because we always play late into the playoffs. Other teams are mimicing DL because it works, not bc the media pumps him up. What exactly would you change? REALLY CHANGE. Me? Nothing. I love seeing teams have to guess which LB is coming. I love seeing the VAST MAJORITY of running backs fall down shortly after getting the ball. Schematically I wouldn't change anything. I would like to see a true cover corner lining up. one that can pick the ball off.. of course I don't want to see us have a bad enough season that one is available when we pick. I truely enjoy winning. it's fun.

:Agree Winning is fun. :p

Crash
03-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Ovi, in most 3-4 schemes it's not on the DL to get the pressure.That was the excuse when the Steelers had bums like Kevin Henry and Nolan Harrison playing DE along side Joel Steed. Funny, that excuse didn't exist when Ray Seals and Brentson Buckner were smashing QBs left and right in playing with Steed in 1995. Sacks don't mean you get constant pressure. A sack could be just one play. The Steelers abused the Vikings and Fran Tarkenton in SB IX. And yet they didn't record any sacks. LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme with a lead has to change. His exchanging short gains for time defense doesn't work anymore.

RuthlessBurgher
03-30-2012, 10:06 AM
That was the excuse when the Steelers had bums like Kevin Henry and Nolan Harrison playing DE along side Joel Steed. Funny, that excuse didn't exist when Ray Seals and Brentson Buckner were smashing QBs left and right in playing with Steed in 1995. Sacks don't mean you get constant pressure. A sack could be just one play. The Steelers abused the Vikings and Fran Tarkenton in SB IX. And yet they didn't record any sacks. LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme with a lead has to change. His exchanging short gains for time defense doesn't work anymore.

Keisel doesn't get a ton of sacks, but he generates his share of pressure.

Eich
04-02-2012, 12:21 PM
No your right, the Steelers 4th quarter defense is awesome. They haven't blown three 4th quarter leads to the Ravens since 2009. They didn't blow a 20-7 lead in XLIII. They didn't allow the Ravens in the first game in 2008 to tie the score either. Didn't let something called Curtis Painter go 80 yards in Indy last season also. Miami in 2010. Oakland, Cincy, Chicago, KC, in 2009, that didn't happen either. Need to stop ONE PLAY to beat the Jags in the playoffs? Nope, that didn't happen either. It's all a friggin mirage.


No, you're right, the Steelers last 3 Super Bowl appearances have nothing to do with the defense. When they're ranked number 1, it's only because of the schedule and no credit should be given to them for championships. It's Ben doing everything. No other good teams ever have to come from behind in any games because their defenses always protect a 4th quarter lead.

feltdizz
04-02-2012, 01:37 PM
To be fair.... the jacksonville game had 3 TO's by Ben in the first half...

and the D generated 2 TO's in the second half but most people credit Ben with bringing them back in the Jags game. Not sure why.

Maybe our D is tired from playing outstanding for 3 quarters but recently the 4th qtr D has been ehhh... it would be nice to see our D step up on more 3rd and 8's. It SEEMS(probably less than it appears) like we rarely stop those in critical situations.

Crash
04-03-2012, 01:07 AM
It's not recently. It's CONSTANT. The scheme changes in the 4th quarter. LeBeau tries to swap short gains for time, it doesn't work. It rarely works. It didn't work when he was in Cincy in the Super Bowl. It didn't work in 2007, it didn't work in 2008, or in 2009.

The defense isn't tired. The defense isn't put in postion to succeed because of LeBeau.

It's not age, it's not injuries, it's SCHEME!

Eich
04-03-2012, 12:50 PM
It's not recently. It's CONSTANT. The scheme changes in the 4th quarter. LeBeau tries to swap short gains for time, it doesn't work. It rarely works. It didn't work when he was in Cincy in the Super Bowl. It didn't work in 2007, it didn't work in 2008, or in 2009.

The defense isn't tired. The defense isn't put in postion to succeed because of LeBeau.

It's not age, it's not injuries, it's SCHEME!


SOMETIMES it's scheme. I think scheme was mostly responsible for the debacle in Denver last playoffs, though it didn't help that Clark was out and others left with injury.

But offenses change in the 4th quarter when they're behind. They become agressive with the pass and more difficult to defend. How do you think WE come from behind against opposing Defenses??? Do their Defensive schemes all of the sudden get stupid in the 4th so that WE can come from behind????

Oviedo
04-03-2012, 01:15 PM
SOMETIMES it's scheme. I think scheme was mostly responsible for the debacle in Denver last playoffs, though it didn't help that Clark was out and others left with injury.

But offenses change in the 4th quarter when they're behind. They become agressive with the pass and more difficult to defend. How do you think WE come from behind against opposing Defenses??? Do their Defensive schemes all of the sudden get stupid in the 4th so that WE can come from behind????

No scheme should be dependent on one player or it isn't a very good scheme. Just like you defense should not be at risk because you can't replace a big, overweight nose tackle. Schemes should be flexible and adaptable to the talent you have and the opponent you play. It may be harder to be flexible when you have to "train" a player for 2+ years to convert to a new position that they might not master but that is a choice you make.

Crash
04-03-2012, 01:25 PM
How do you think WE come from behind against opposing Defenses??

Simple, we get the worthless backup tight ends (Be it Speath or Johnson) off the field, and use our 3 or 4 wides.

The Steelers offense would dominate, if they just would go 3 wide and a TE as their base offense and quit the BS multiple TE sets that clog up the LOS.

RuthlessBurgher
04-03-2012, 01:30 PM
Based on his historic ability to adapt his offensive scheme to the talents of his players (dominant passing game in Arizona with Warner/Fitz/Bolden and dominant running game in K.C. with Jamaal Charles & Thomas Jones), I think Haley is smart enough to realize that we are more dangerous with Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, and Redman (or Mendenhall when healthy) than anything involving David Johnson.

Crash
04-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Arians knew that too. But Art II wants 70s football.

Oviedo
04-03-2012, 01:38 PM
Based on his historic ability to adapt his offensive scheme to the talents of his players (dominant passing game in Arizona with Warner/Fitz/Bolden and dominant running game in K.C. with Jamaal Charles & Thomas Jones), I think Haley is smart enough to realize that we are more dangerous with Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, and Redman (or Mendenhall when healthy) than anything involving David Johnson.

David Johnson is the bane of my existence as a fan. Everytime I see him on the field I want to puke.

RuthlessBurgher
04-03-2012, 01:51 PM
Arians knew that too. But Art II wants 70s football.

Give it up...does the difference between "run more effectively" and "run more frequently" really need to be explained again?

Eich
04-04-2012, 08:34 AM
[/COLOR]Simple, we get the worthless backup tight ends (Be it Speath or Johnson) off the field, and use our 3 or 4 wides.


Thanks for making my point!!! When we're down in the 4th quarter, the offense takes more chances.

Same with other teams.

You say our defense gives up 4th quarter leads. You use XLIII as an example. Well, what happened to the Cardinals????? They gave up a 4th quarter lead to us at the WORST possible time.

The 4th quarter is a different game. You can't just dismiss our defense because of lead changes in the 4th quarter.

And I agree with you that our offense needs to be more agressive throughout the entire game and maybe we can get bigger leads in the 4th quarter. You blame Art. I blame Arians. Art and Tomlin fired Arians. Let's hope Haley does something different.

feltdizz
04-04-2012, 08:40 AM
What happened to the Cardinals D in the 4th? Really?

grotonsteel
04-04-2012, 11:06 AM
And I agree with you that our offense needs to be more agressive throughout the entire game and maybe we can get bigger leads in the 4th quarter. You blame Art. I blame Arians. Art and Tomlin fired Arians. Let's hope Haley does something different.

We need to stop Run-Run-Pass-Punt Offense once we get a lead. Too predicitable.

Crash
04-04-2012, 11:17 AM
Thanks for making my point!!! When we're down in the 4th quarter, the offense takes more chances.

You call it taking chances. I call it using the correct personnel. It's not just the 4th quarter either. Many games we putz along with our 2-3 TE sets and do nothing.

Then BAM! In the first half, the 3rd quarter, we take the backup TEs off the field, then we go right down the field and score. MY point is, if we just used our best players MORE, instead of just when they are down late, this team would dominate.

But ownership wants 1970's football, ownership is too worried about protecting the defense's reputation. In short? Our obsession with the past stops us MORE tahn opposing defenses do.

And that has to stop. NOW!

birtikidis
04-04-2012, 09:30 PM
No scheme should be dependent on one player or it isn't a very good scheme. Just like you defense should not be at risk because you can't replace a big, overweight nose tackle. Schemes should be flexible and adaptable to the talent you have and the opponent you play. It may be harder to be flexible when you have to "train" a player for 2+ years to convert to a new position that they might not master but that is a choice you make.
Your point would make sense except, in that game we lost keisel to a torn groin, Hampton to a torn acl, never had Clark and if Im not mistaken Woolley was out bc of a hamstring injury.

feltdizz
04-05-2012, 09:25 AM
Your point would make sense except, in that game we lost keisel to a torn groin, Hampton to a torn acl, never had Clark and if Im not mistaken Woolley was out bc of a hamstring injury.

does it really matter when you put 11 in the box on first down in OT when the announce just said a FG means we get the ball back? Pathetic play calling on Lebeau's part... absolutely pathetic.

The Bronco's said we showed our hand all game on first down on D... Lebeau was outcoached and outplayed by the worst passing QB in all of football.