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Oviedo
03-19-2012, 12:31 PM
Just announced.

What promises were made to get him there as far as improvements to the roster?

Tebow will be traded if they can

Mick'sTeam
03-19-2012, 12:35 PM
I think they make an offer to Wallace, meaning we'd get pick 25 if he went to Denver as well.

steelblood
03-19-2012, 12:42 PM
Woah. I just started a thread about Wallace and Denver (and cincy).

Getting Wallace would be a great move for Denver and they should and will be willing to spend to the cap to win now.

They have a good O-line (save for one open guard position). They need some more weapons. Wallace at mile high gassing out CBs would be pretty good.

Steelgal
03-19-2012, 12:46 PM
Per a member of a Rats board who lives in Boulder, CO, it's being reported on the radio there that one of the conditions the Broncos made to Manning included getting Wallace as well. Adam schefter was on colin cowherd and said he didn't see it happening, but that's what I've heard/read so far.

Steelgal
03-19-2012, 12:48 PM
I think they make an offer to Wallace, meaning we'd get pick 25 if he went to Denver as well.

If that's the case, anyone know how high they could move up by putting our picks together? Or are there 2 stud players they'd like and would rather take both picks? Sorry, but I don't follow college so have no idea about these types of things.

California-Steel
03-19-2012, 12:54 PM
If course, the Broncos aren't done building their team in free agency. No matter what they give Manning, there's still money in the salary cap kitty to spend. And as Mike Mayock of the NFL Network said last Friday, there are some interesting options out there.
"If I get Peyton Manning and it's a healthy Peyton Manning, I'm thinking Super Bowl," Mayock said. "From my perspective, the first thing I would do is I would try to make Mike Wallace from the Pittsburgh Steelers a very wealthy young man. He's a restricted free agent so I would have to give up my first-round pick, but my first-round pick is only No. 25. I would be happy to give up No. 25 and then I would get after Mike Wallace, try to put together a deal with him.
"After that, remember that [tight end] Dallas Clark — Peyton's old teammate — is out there as a free agent; it wouldn't cost me anything. I would be trying to augment my offensive firepower because Peyton is used to dealing with an average defense; Denver's defense is fine. I'd be really just getting everybody I could get on the offensive side of the ball and say, 'OK, Peyton, it's up to you to win a Super Bowl. Let's go.'"
The Broncos aren't there just yet, but they have scored a major victory on paper. Now, it's time to fill it all in.

Oviedo
03-19-2012, 12:54 PM
If that's the case, anyone know how high they could move up by putting our picks together? Or are there 2 stud players they'd like and would rather take both picks? Sorry, but I don't follow college so have no idea about these types of things.

Wouldn't have to use both Round 1 picks. Depending how high you wanted to go would only need to bundle our second or third to go up and get good OL and still keep other Round 1 pick to trade down for even more picks.

Mister Pittsburgh
03-19-2012, 01:05 PM
I could live with picks 24 & 25 with no mike wallace. We have replaced Plaxico and we have replaced Holmes. We can replace Mike Wallace. I would rather keep Brown anyway.

Eddie Spaghetti
03-19-2012, 01:20 PM
I would much rather have wallace than pick 25.

me thinks he is undervalued here.

RuthlessBurgher
03-19-2012, 01:26 PM
I would much rather have wallace than pick 25.

me thinks he is undervalued here.

:Agree

If you were the Broncos brass, would you take this opportunity to unload Tebow to one of the QB-needy Florida teams (so he could sell tickets down there), or do you make Timmy switch positions, converting him into Dallas Clark 2.0?

ikestops85
03-19-2012, 01:27 PM
I would much rather have wallace than pick 25.

me thinks he is undervalued here.

+1 ... and here are the additional characters so I can post my 'plus one' :)

Eddie Spaghetti
03-19-2012, 01:28 PM
I bet jax is the favorite, but I would rule out the pats*** for tebow.

RuthlessBurgher
03-19-2012, 01:30 PM
I bet jax is the favorite, but I would rule out the pats*** for tebow.

Tim Tebow for Ryan Mallett...which side says no?

focosteeler
03-19-2012, 01:30 PM
I cant see them giving up their 1st for Wallace. Manning needs his TE, Denver does not have one. I can see them bringing in Jeff Saturday and drafting Coby Fleener with 25. Maybe they can get Devon Bess or someone like that in their Tebow trade

feltdizz
03-19-2012, 01:41 PM
I would much rather have wallace than pick 25.

me thinks he is undervalued here.

Our FO made it possible for him to be "undervalued" on here....

It's not like the board wanted to trade Wallace because we don't value him.

steelblood
03-19-2012, 01:42 PM
Fleener is overrated. He is a second round talent. Besides, Demaryius Thomas is perfectly capable of being a manning style split TE. He is 230 pounds of pure muscle (ask Ike Taylor). Wallace would be a great pickup for them.

We wouldn't be getting better by losing him. However, our salary cap problems would improve without giving him a huge contract.

steelblood
03-19-2012, 01:43 PM
I also believe that with the 24th and 25th picks we'd be looking to trade back and get more 2nd-4th round picks as there is great value there. Some team desperate for a player should be willing to deal with us.

Mick'sTeam
03-19-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm sure Manning would rather give up the 25th pick in order to get Wallace. Plus, his old pal Dallas Clark is a free agent. I'm sure he could easily be worked in as well.

Eddie Spaghetti
03-19-2012, 01:48 PM
Our FO made it possible for him to be "undervalued" on here....

It's not like the board wanted to trade Wallace because we don't value him.

I guess you're not reading the same posts I am.

some people seem giddy at the thought of acquiring a late 1st round pick for wallace.

and, yes, I strongly feel that some on this board "undervalue" mike wallace.

Oviedo
03-19-2012, 02:41 PM
Fleener is overrated. He is a second round talent. Besides, Demaryius Thomas is perfectly capable of being a manning style split TE. He is 230 pounds of pure muscle (ask Ike Taylor). Wallace would be a great pickup for them.

We wouldn't be getting better by losing him. However, our salary cap problems would improve without giving him a huge contract.

Thomas had no problem outrunning our secondary. He is already a speed guy so not sure why the would want Wallace for a #1.

Oviedo
03-19-2012, 02:42 PM
I'm sure Manning would rather give up the 25th pick in order to get Wallace. Plus, his old pal Dallas Clark is a free agent. I'm sure he could easily be worked in as well.

Yep. I think there is a high probability that both Jeff Saturday and Clark end up in Denver. Manning needs to win now and he needs guys who know him and what he does.

feltdizz
03-19-2012, 02:45 PM
I guess you're not reading the same posts I am.

some people seem giddy at the thought of acquiring a late 1st round pick for wallace.

and, yes, I strongly feel that some on this board "undervalue" mike wallace.

I prefer to think of it as more of a "sun will come out tomorrow attitude" and I'm not ashamed to say I'm part of that crowd...

If we can't keep Wallace, well, it's not the first time we lost a good WR and getting a 1st rounder for him would be awesome.

feltdizz
03-19-2012, 02:46 PM
Thomas had no problem outrunning our secondary. He is already a speed guy so not sure why the would want Wallace for a #1.

plenty of WR's can outrun our secondary when we put 9 in the box...

Oviedo
03-19-2012, 02:47 PM
plenty of WR's can outrun our secondary when we put 9 in the box...

I was going to ssay something about how we got outcoached but I did not want to derail the thread by being accused of criticizing he who shall not be criticized.

ikestops85
03-19-2012, 03:44 PM
I was going to ssay something about how we got outcoached but I did not want to derail the thread by being accused of criticizing he who shall not be criticized.

Exactly O!! I don't know how Arians got that stupid defensive game plan past St. Lebeau. ;)

Djfan
03-19-2012, 05:22 PM
This Manning thing sucks. I am already getting texts from my local friends about how they will win the next 238 superbowls.

Steelgal
03-19-2012, 07:02 PM
This Manning thing sucks. I am already getting texts from my local friends about how they will win the next 238 superbowls.

I know how you feel, being from IN. I've endured his greatness for years. Glad to get rid of him. Enjoy his tenure there DJ :p

Chadman
03-19-2012, 07:16 PM
Geez...they smashed us with Jesus...oops, Tebow....what will they do to us with Peyton????

RuthlessBurgher
03-19-2012, 07:26 PM
This Manning thing sucks. I am already getting texts from my local friends about how they will win the next 238 superbowls.

Ask them how many Super Bowls Peyton has won in his 14 years in the NFL.

Then ask them how many Super Bowls Ben has won in his 8 years in the NFL.

That should shut 'em up.

skyhawk
03-19-2012, 07:33 PM
+1 vote for keeping Wallace. He is quite valuable in my opinion. More so than an unproven 1st round pick. wtf?

Djfan
03-19-2012, 07:34 PM
Ask them how many Super Bowls Peyton has won in his 14 years in the NFL.

Then ask them how many Super Bowls Ben has won in his 8 years in the NFL.

That should shut 'em up.

I'm already doing that. Also, doesn't Ben have more "perfect game ratings" than Peyton?

RuthlessBurgher
03-19-2012, 07:57 PM
I'm already doing that. Also, doesn't Ben have more "perfect game ratings" than Peyton?

Actually, no. Both Ben and Peyton have 3 perfect passer rating games in the regular season (but I believe that Ben is the only guy to have 2 perfect passer rating games in 1 season). Peyton also has another perfect passer rating game in the playoffs (in a Wild Card game against...you guessed it...the Broncos). Perhaps you were thinking of Brady, since he only has 2 such games in his career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_quarterbacks_who_have_posted_a_perfect _passer_rating

steelz09
03-19-2012, 08:43 PM
+1 vote for keeping Wallace. He is quite valuable in my opinion. More so than an unproven 1st round pick. wtf?

I'm all for keeping Wallace but if we can't, I sure hope the Steelers try to get something in return.

papillon
03-19-2012, 10:39 PM
Geez...they smashed us with Jesus...oops, Tebow....what will they do to us with Peyton????

Same thing the Colts did with Harrison, Wayne, Clark and James, nothing (I know, one SB). Peyton Manning is 36 years old, coming of multiple neck surgeries and the Bronco WRs won't be mistaken for Harrison, Wayne and Clark anytime soon, even with Wallace on the squad. The Bronco defense is slightly above average (if that) and they have a good running game. Of all the places for Manning to land, Denver is the least likely place to win a SB, IMO.

The 49ers were the place to go, Crabtree, Davis, Gore, probably a top 5 offensive line and great weather year round. The defense is easily top 5 and their special teams were pretty good, add Manning and they would have been the favorite. Peyton isn't going to be the Peyton that torched teams throughout his career. Even if he is, for the most part, the playoffs were not good to him, the Manning that is good in the playoffs is Eli.

Tennessee was another place set up to win with Peyton as quarterback, Britt returning, CJ and a darn good defense.

I'm not sure what was promised or what pictures the Broncos have of Peyton that he doesn't want on the internet, but Denver isn't going to be friendly to Peyton. He's accustomed to playing 8 games guaranteed in a dome in Indy, not on a field that could be covered with multiple feet of snow and wind. The Broncos will find out quickly enough if the nerves regenerated properly or not when he tries to throw in the wind.

Denver will win games and get into the playoffs, but won't get to the championship game, IMO. all they did was spare themselves the embarrassment of missing the playoffs with Tim Tebow at quarterback.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
03-19-2012, 10:52 PM
Same thing the Colts did with Harrison, Wayne, Clark and James, nothing (I know, one SB). Peyton Manning is 36 years old, coming of multiple neck surgeries and the Bronco WRs won't be mistaken for Harrison, Wayne and Clark anytime soon, even with Wallace on the squad. The Bronco defense is slightly above average (if that) and they have a good running game. Of all the places for Manning to land, Denver is the least likely place to win a SB, IMO.


I wouldn't even say that Denver has a good running game. A lot of that was because Tebow himself ran the ball a ton (122-660-5.4-6). With Timmy out of the picture, they have a past-his-prime Willis McGahee (RB's going into their 10th season aren't on the upswing), a first round bust in Knowshon Moreno, and a guy named Lance Ball (who managed to produce twice as much as Knowshon). Nowhere near as close to what he would have in San Fran or Tennessee.

Djfan
03-19-2012, 11:46 PM
I agree. He must be chasing money right now. I really don't see any reason beyond that for him to pass up SF or TN for this.

fordfixer
03-19-2012, 11:49 PM
This Manning thing sucks. I am already getting texts from my local friends about how they will win the next 238 superbowls.

Wow what a day you got two texts:D

Crash
03-20-2012, 01:18 AM
Peyton was not going to the NFC. Mama Manning's dream is a Peyton vs. Eli Super Bowl.

Can't happen with both in the same conference.

The AFC West is the worst division in the conference. Cream puff teams who don't really hit anyone. That's why he went to Denver.

skyhawk
03-20-2012, 01:31 AM
Same thing the Colts did with Harrison, Wayne, Clark and James, nothing (I know, one SB). Peyton Manning is 36 years old, coming of multiple neck surgeries and the Bronco WRs won't be mistaken for Harrison, Wayne and Clark anytime soon, even with Wallace on the squad. The Bronco defense is slightly above average (if that) and they have a good running game. Of all the places for Manning to land, Denver is the least likely place to win a SB, IMO.

The 49ers were the place to go, Crabtree, Davis, Gore, probably a top 5 offensive line and great weather year round. The defense is easily top 5 and their special teams were pretty good, add Manning and they would have been the favorite. Peyton isn't going to be the Peyton that torched teams throughout his career. Even if he is, for the most part, the playoffs were not good to him, the Manning that is good in the playoffs is Eli.

Tennessee was another place set up to win with Peyton as quarterback, Britt returning, CJ and a darn good defense.

I'm not sure what was promised or what pictures the Broncos have of Peyton that he doesn't want on the internet, but Denver isn't going to be friendly to Peyton. He's accustomed to playing 8 games guaranteed in a dome in Indy, not on a field that could be covered with multiple feet of snow and wind. The Broncos will find out quickly enough if the nerves regenerated properly or not when he tries to throw in the wind.

Denver will win games and get into the playoffs, but won't get to the championship game, IMO. all they did was spare themselves the embarrassment of missing the playoffs with Tim Tebow at quarterback.

Pappy

Exactamundo. +1

Djfan
03-20-2012, 08:24 AM
Wow what a day you got two texts:D

Kind of intimidating, huh Captain Technology?

Oviedo
03-20-2012, 08:34 AM
I'm all for keeping Wallace but if we can't, I sure hope the Steelers try to get something in return.

I think that is the essence of much emotion and debate here on "the Planet." Some interpret wanting a 1st Round pick if Wallace leaves as wanting Wallace to leave. I think a very small minority may want Wallace to leave but a much larger portion of the posters want something valuable like a Round 1 if he does leave. Doesn't make anyone a Wallace hater just people who want value in return for a valauable commodity if we are put in the situation of losing that commodity.

Oviedo
03-20-2012, 08:38 AM
Same thing the Colts did with Harrison, Wayne, Clark and James, nothing (I know, one SB). Peyton Manning is 36 years old, coming of multiple neck surgeries and the Bronco WRs won't be mistaken for Harrison, Wayne and Clark anytime soon, even with Wallace on the squad. The Bronco defense is slightly above average (if that) and they have a good running game. Of all the places for Manning to land, Denver is the least likely place to win a SB, IMO.

The 49ers were the place to go, Crabtree, Davis, Gore, probably a top 5 offensive line and great weather year round. The defense is easily top 5 and their special teams were pretty good, add Manning and they would have been the favorite. Peyton isn't going to be the Peyton that torched teams throughout his career. Even if he is, for the most part, the playoffs were not good to him, the Manning that is good in the playoffs is Eli.

Tennessee was another place set up to win with Peyton as quarterback, Britt returning, CJ and a darn good defense.

I'm not sure what was promised or what pictures the Broncos have of Peyton that he doesn't want on the internet, but Denver isn't going to be friendly to Peyton. He's accustomed to playing 8 games guaranteed in a dome in Indy, not on a field that could be covered with multiple feet of snow and wind. The Broncos will find out quickly enough if the nerves regenerated properly or not when he tries to throw in the wind.

Denver will win games and get into the playoffs, but won't get to the championship game, IMO. all they did was spare themselves the embarrassment of missing the playoffs with Tim Tebow at quarterback.

Pappy

Denver really makes no sense because they really aren't that good a football team. Many of their wins were last minute luck or opponents screwing up playing against Tebow like we did.

Maybe Manning wanted the challenge but I can't see them being more than 8-8 this season.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-20-2012, 10:55 AM
The reasons why Manning did not land in SF or Tenn? Frank Gore and Chris Johnson. Think about it...........

Manning does not want to go somewhere to hand off the ball. He wants to air it out. He knows that there will be problems when you have a top back who is not getting the rock, especially if there are any struggles.

Who were PM's go to backs in Indy? Addai? James? They had one of the greatest weapons of the last 15 years and shipped him out in favor of James. PM wants an air show, and won't let Gore or CJ get in the way.

grotonsteel
03-20-2012, 11:01 AM
Denver really makes no sense because they really aren't that good a football team. Many of their wins were last minute luck or opponents screwing up playing against Tebow like we did.

Maybe Manning wanted the challenge but I can't see them being more than 8-8 this season.

Denver has a good defense and AFC West is outright horrible. It is an easy division to win.

Also it might be easier for Manning to throw deep in Mile-High because of high altitude i guess.

RuthlessBurgher
03-20-2012, 12:24 PM
The reasons why Manning did not land in SF or Tenn? Frank Gore and Chris Johnson. Think about it...........

Manning does not want to go somewhere to hand off the ball. He wants to air it out. He knows that there will be problems when you have a top back who is not getting the rock, especially if there are any struggles.

Who were PM's go to backs in Indy? Addai? James? They had one of the greatest weapons of the last 15 years and shipped him out in favor of James. PM wants an air show, and won't let Gore or CJ get in the way.

Peyton had many years of winning the weak AFC South with 12 or so wins per year, but only had one championship season (and had massive luck of facing off against Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl...even then, Rhodes and Addai rushing for 190 combined yards and the Indy defense getting 5 takeaways each played a larger role in that victory than Manning himself).

Peyton may lead the Broncos to an AFC West title or two (and may even get to 12 or so wins in the process), but he's not winning any championships there. If he was interested in championships, he would have signed with the Niners (but would have to share glory with Gore and a top-ranked defense...oh, the horror!). But he's satisfied being the guy who is worshipped for regular season success, which should continue in Denver.

steelz09
03-20-2012, 01:09 PM
The reasons why Manning did not land in SF or Tenn? Frank Gore and Chris Johnson. Think about it...........

Manning does not want to go somewhere to hand off the ball. He wants to air it out. He knows that there will be problems when you have a top back who is not getting the rock, especially if there are any struggles.

Who were PM's go to backs in Indy? Addai? James? They had one of the greatest weapons of the last 15 years and shipped him out in favor of James. PM wants an air show, and won't let Gore or CJ get in the way.


Not entirely true....Edgerrin James was solid. Addai had high expectations but was a disappointment.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-20-2012, 04:54 PM
Peyton had many years of winning the weak AFC South with 12 or so wins per year, but only had one championship season (and had massive luck of facing off against Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl...even then, Rhodes and Addai rushing for 190 combined yards and the Indy defense getting 5 takeaways each played a larger role in that victory than Manning himself).

Peyton may lead the Broncos to an AFC West title or two (and may even get to 12 or so wins in the process), but he's not winning any championships there. If he was interested in championships, he would have signed with the Niners (but would have to share glory with Gore and a top-ranked defense...oh, the horror!). But he's satisfied being the guy who is worshipped for regular season success, which should continue in Denver.

Reminds me of Marino. Everyone looks back at the huge rushing numbers, but do we also remember his disdain for the running game. Both QBs are pretty much a death sentence to the career of any RB.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-20-2012, 05:02 PM
Not entirely true....Edgerrin James was solid. Addai had high expectations but was a disappointment.

True, James was solid, but a footnote to that offense. Consider that his last year in Indy he rushed for 1,500 yards and 13 TDs, was coming off of a SB victory, and there was no concerted effort to keep him there. In Faulk's last year in Indy he rushed for 1,300 yards, caught 900 yards, had 10 combined TDs, was a HOFer in his prime, and was traded for a 2nd and a 5th.

birtikidis
03-20-2012, 06:06 PM
The big reason Manning kills teams is because of his contract demands. What's he gonna get from the Bronco's? 15m a year? or 19.. can't remember. Either way, you pay one guy that much money and you can't build a team. other positions suffer. I have a feeling Ben will end up killing us the same way. Great players, but not greater than the team imo.

RuthlessBurgher
03-20-2012, 06:23 PM
The big reason Manning kills teams is because of his contract demands. What's he gonna get from the Bronco's? 15m a year? or 19.. can't remember. Either way, you pay one guy that much money and you can't build a team. other positions suffer. I have a feeling Ben will end up killing us the same way. Great players, but not greater than the team imo.

Ben's 8 year contract comes out to $12.75 million per year on average. Peyton's new 5 year contract (for a guy turning 36 this weekend with 4 neck surgeries) comes out to $19.2 million on average.

RuthlessBurgher
03-20-2012, 06:24 PM
Reminds me of Marino. Everyone looks back at the huge rushing numbers, but do we also remember his disdain for the running game. Both QBs are pretty much a death sentence to the career of any RB.

I always compared Peyton to Marino, Brady to Montana, and Ben to Elway.