Eagles, DeSean Jackson agree on 5-year contract

[pittpete]

http://thecovertwo.com/2012/03/eagles-desean-jackson-agree-on-5-year-contract/

[BigRob]

http://thecovertwo.com/2012/03/eagles-desean-jackson-agree-on-5-year-contract/

Anyone think Wallace is taking less than Desean?

[ikestops85]

I think DeSean is the guy who sets the bar for Wallace. Mike will have to be signed to a contract in this same neighborhood. I hope the Steelers have the room to make it happen.

[RuthlessBurgher]

The Eagles paid their big play receiver this year (Jackson), knowing that they're also due to pay their steady, all-around receiver next year (Maclin).

Folks here don't seem to think that is possible for us with Wallace and Brown.

[BigRob]

The Eagles paid their big play receiver this year (Jackson), knowing that they're also due to pay their steady, all-around receiver next year (Maclin).

Folks here don't seem to think that is possible for us with Wallace and Brown.

1) You don't know whether they will re-sign Maclin. He gets injured a lot. Just your conjecture as opinion.

2) I don't care how the Eagles decide to spend their money. How do the Steelers spend their money? Have the Steelers ever signed two wide receiver's to mega deals? Not the Steeler's way.

[Oviedo]

I think DeSean is the guy who sets the bar for Wallace. Mike will have to be signed to a contract in this same neighborhood. I hope the Steelers have the room to make it happen.

It is a bar way above where we can pay right now. This bar is in an exclusive 5-star resort and we are at Happy Hour at a dive bar on the Southside. Wallace will not take a hometown discount given how the WR salaries have exploded through the roof in the last 24 hours.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

only 15 million is guaranteed.

I think the steelers can work off this base for wallace.

[Oviedo]

1) You don't know whether they will re-sign Maclin. He gets injured a lot. Just your conjecture as opinion.

2) I don't care how the Eagles decide to spend their money. How do the Steelers spend their money? Have the Steelers ever signed two wide receiver's to mega deals? Not the Steeler's way.

Rob--you get at the essence of the argument "The Steelers have never done this before." The league has changed and maybe the Steelers priorities will to, but it just seems in all practical terms unlikely that Wallace AND Brown both can get big money long term deals. That is where the factions fall out in this discussion. If you have to choose, who do you choose?

There is no right answer because for both we are just projecting future greatness and either can fall flat on their face. Like I said, some like Stargell (Walace) and some like Clemente (Brown).

[Eddie Spaghetti]

I don't think signing brown is going to be as expensive as some here seem to believe.

[NJ-STEELER]

why would brown garner a contract even approaching that kind of money?

[BigRob]

I don't think signing brown is going to be as expensive as some here seem to believe.

If he blows up again this season?

[BigRob]

why would brown garner a contract even approaching that kind of money?

See above. You want to give Wallace that kind of contract? You don't think Brown will want the same if he does it 2 years in a row like Wallace?

[Dee Dub]

The Eagles paid their big play receiver this year (Jackson), knowing that they're also due to pay their steady, all-around receiver next year (Maclin).

Folks here don't seem to think that is possible for us with Wallace and Brown.

Yep, great point Ruthless. Let me add this, the Pittsburgh Steelers have never had any problem signing players they want to keep. If they want to keep Wallace and Brown they will do it. Money will not be an object. Never has when it comes to re-signing the players they want to keep.

[NJ-STEELER]

i'll take the1st rounder for AB. easier to replace imo

although i doubt a team ponies up the big money and a draft pick (just like wallace situation)

[BigRob]

See above. You want to give Wallace that kind of contract? You don't think Brown will want the same if he does it 2 years in a row like Wallace?

Again, I don't believe the Steelers will step out of the way they operate. No way they keep two big money wide receivers. It is not the way they do things. It would be outside of their philosophy in the Cap/Free Agency era of Football. Not going to happen.

[Chadman]

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=501870#post501870)
The Eagles paid their big play receiver this year (Jackson), knowing that they're also due to pay their steady, all-around receiver next year (Maclin).

Folks here don't seem to think that is possible for us with Wallace and Brown.



1) You don't know whether they will re-sign Maclin. He gets injured a lot. Just your conjecture as opinion.





http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=501879#post501879)
why would brown garner a contract even approaching that kind of money?



See above. You want to give Wallace that kind of contract? You don't think Brown will want the same if he does it 2 years in a row like Wallace?

Fight conjecture with conjecture?

Your 2nd point actually should be the decider for everyone on the argument. Wallace has performed for 3 years. Proven commodity. Brown has performed for half a season. We're still waiting to see if he can back it up.

Yet you are willing to let the proven player go because the unproven one might want the same amount of money?

[BigRob]

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png

Fight conjecture with conjecture?

Your 2nd point actually should be the decider for everyone on the argument. Wallace has performed for 3 years. Proven commodity. Brown has performed for half a season. We're still waiting to see if he can back it up.

Yet you are willing to let the proven player go because the unproven one might want the same amount of money?


See the question mark at the end? It was an honest question. You don't think Brown will want the same? You don't think a team will go out on a limb and offer that up if he performs again?

[BigRob]

Not saying let Wallace go. I would take a first round pick for him.

Preference is to play with both of them this year and offer the one you think is better long term the #1 wide receiver money. No one said "let" Wallace go. Get compensation for him or play with him on the tender this year.

[Chadman]

Answer honestly- would you rather the 1st round pick this year, or Wallace on the tender amount?

[BigRob]

Honestly, I think we are a better team in 2012 with Wallace and Brown than with an extra 1st Round pick in 2012. However, 2013 and going forward I would say it could go either way.

The real question is can the Steelers go into 2013 with their #1, #2, #3 wide receiver all UFA or RFA? I don't think they want to contemplate that. That is why I think they will offer a long term deal to either Wallace or Brown this summer with Brown being the one more likely to sign at this point for a more reasonable contract.

We will not go into next off season with our three best receivers UFA or RFA (This is conjecture by the way).

[Chadman]

See the question mark at the end? It was an honest question. You don't think Brown will want the same? You don't think a team will go out on a limb and offer that up if he performs again?

Absolutely they will. IF he performs again.

Thing is- what if Brown tanks this season? What if he drops every second pass his way & he proves to be nothing more than a piggy-backer to Wallace? (Not saying he is- just playing the conjecture game).

If you let Wallace go now (even if you get this shiny 1st round pick), and he continues to rack up 1400 yard 14 TD seasons, on the priviso that we'll 'never afford both Wallace & Brown', and Brown doesn't end up being 'all that'- what are you left with?

Bird in the hand BigRob, bird in the hand.

Wallace is a proven NFL WR, with 3 years of solid to very good results to his name. Brown has half a season's success.

[steelz09]

Answer honestly- would you rather the 1st round pick this year, or Wallace on the tender amount?

Preferences in order:
1) Sign Wallace this year and Brown next
2) Lose Wallace this year but receive another 1st rounder
3) Keep Wallace one more year and but lose him next year

[BigRob]

Absolutely they will. IF he performs again.

Thing is- what if Brown tanks this season? What if he drops every second pass his way & he proves to be nothing more than a piggy-backer to Wallace? (Not saying he is- just playing the conjecture game).

If you let Wallace go now (even if you get this shiny 1st round pick), and he continues to rack up 1400 yard 14 TD seasons, on the priviso that we'll 'never afford both Wallace & Brown', and Brown doesn't end up being 'all that'- what are you left with?

Bird in the hand BigRob, bird in the hand.

Wallace is a proven NFL WR, with 3 years of solid to very good results to his name. Brown has half a season's success.

I think saying half a season of success is a little overly dramatic, but he is not yet a total known quantity. However, the Steelers will not and cannot pay Wallace what the WR market is bearing right now. Therefore, It is my conjecture that Brown will be signed to a long term deal at a reasonable rate this summer or training camp.

[costanza2k1]

.... If they want to keep Wallace and Brown they will do it. Money will not be an object. Never has when it comes to re-signing the players they want to keep.

BINGO! This is exactly what I was thinking.

[Slapstick]

If you let Wallace go now (even if you get this shiny 1st round pick), and he continues to rack up 1400 yard 14 TD seasons, on the priviso that we'll 'never afford both Wallace & Brown', and Brown doesn't end up being 'all that'- what are you left with?


Talk about conjecture!

Doesn't Wallace need to first produce a 1400 yard 14 TD season before he can continue to do so?

Personally, I think the Steelers will sign both Wallace and Brown (depending upon his performance in the 2012 season) to long-term deals. While I agree that it goes against what would normally be considered the Steelers' philosophy and cap structure, the fact is that the NFL is now a passing league. You need a franchise QB and you need legitimate weapons...

Many thought that the Steelers would need to choose between Lawrence Timmons and LaMarr Woodley because James Harrison already had a big contract...they didn't have to because they signed both...

Now, the Steelers are up against the cap and that may cause some difficulty, but I strongly believe that it will be done..

[ikestops85]

I think saying half a season of success is a little overly dramatic, but he is not yet a total known quantity. However, the Steelers will not and cannot pay Wallace what the WR market is bearing right now. Therefore, It is my conjecture that Brown will be signed to a long term deal at a reasonable rate this summer or training camp.

What makes anybody think Brown will sign a long term deal right now at a reasonable rate? Don't you think he is ready to gamble that he will have a very good year and strike the mother lode? The guy is young, talented, a hard worker and not a diva like many of the good wide receivers these days so would you sign for Garcon money when you might get Jackson money next year? I wouldn't.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Well guys...Everyone is talking about this big contract and how the Steelers could afford to pay Wallace this. The contracts are eye candy. Look good on paper. How bad of a deal would it be if I told you that D Jackson's cap number in 2012 is 3 mil and 2013 is 9 mil? So let's just say for the sake of argument that is Wallace's contract if you want to retain AB in 2013. Even if you stick the same contract on AB the two account for 12 mil in 2013. 2014 is new salary cap bump with TV money. In theory, the could keep these two together for 3 years and afford it. After the 2014 season, Wallace will be 29 by season start and Brown will be 27. You can take it from there. If Wallace's production isn't there, they can trade or release him and only be stuck with 3-4 mil. If he is still on the top of his game, the restructure / extend will help get his cap number down just like we have seen in the past. If the Steelers want both...They will make it work financially.

[RuthlessBurgher]

If he blows up again this season?

He hasn't truly blown up yet.

His 69 catches were 28th in the league last year.
His 1108 yards were 15th in the league last year.
His 2 receiving touchdowns were 107th in the league last year.

Those numbers don't demand a blockbuster contract.
These numbers, however, do:

2009: 39-756-19.4-6
2010: 60-1257-21.0-10
2011: 72-1193-16.6-8

Those numbers are on par with the first 3 seasons of Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald's careers.

Wallace: 171-3206-18.7-24
Calvin: 193-3071-15.9-21
Andre: 208-2806-13.5-12
Fitz: 230-3135-13.6-24

Wallace may have the fewest receptions of the four after their first 3 years in the league, but he still has more receiving yardage than any of them (a significantly higher YPC average than any of them will do that), and he is tied for the most TD's through 3 seasons with Fitz.

[Oviedo]

He hasn't truly blown up yet.

His 69 catches were 28th in the league last year.
His 1108 yards were 15th in the league last year.
His 2 receiving touchdowns were 107th in the league last year.

Those numbers don't demand a blockbuster contract.
These numbers, however, do:

2009: 39-756-19.4-6
2010: 60-1257-21.0-10
2011: 72-1193-16.6-8

Those numbers are on par with the first 3 seasons of Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald's careers.

Wallace: 171-3206-18.7-24
Calvin: 193-3071-15.9-21
Andre: 208-2806-13.5-12
Fitz: 230-3135-13.6-24

Wallace may have the fewest receptions of the four after their first 3 years in the league, but he still has more receiving yardage than any of them (a significantly higher YPC average than any of them will do that), and he is tied for the most TD's through 3 seasons with Fitz.

You make a strong argument. Just need to find someone who has the balance in the check book to write the check.

[BigRob]

He hasn't truly blown up yet.

His 69 catches were 28th in the league last year.
His 1108 yards were 15th in the league last year.
His 2 receiving touchdowns were 107th in the league last year.

Those numbers don't demand a blockbuster contract.
These numbers, however, do:


What were Wallaces' rankings this year. You conveniently left this out. Your also discounting Brown's contribution to special teams.

Since when is going from 16 for 167 to 69 for 1108 not blowing up? Brown seems to be on the same arc as Wallace.

What will you say when Brown eclipses Wallace this year? It happened the second half of the year. Don't give me that coverage bull crap. Wallace was seeing the same type of coverages from game one.

[RuthlessBurgher]

What were Wallaces' rankings this year. You conveniently left this out. Your also discounting Brown's contribution to special teams.

Since when is going from 16 for 167 to 69 for 1108 not blowing up? Brown seems to be on the same arc as Wallace.

What will you say when Brown eclipses Wallace this year? It happened the second half of the year. Don't give me that coverage bull crap. Wallace was seeing the same type of coverages from game one.

Okay, then...for Wallace:

His 72 catches were 25th in the league last year.
His 1193 yards were 11th in the league last year.
His 8 receiving touchdowns were 11th in the league last year.

All numbers were better than Brown's last year. His catches were up 12, yards down 64, and TD's down 2 from his "blow-up" season in 2010.

Brown broke out last year, sure. He went from a 6th round WR that was our #4 option in 2010 to a legitimate starting NFL wideout in 2011. I love me some Antonio Brown, but when I think of "blowing up" I think of someone launching himself into the argument to be among the elite receivers in the NFL...Brown's not there yet (I hope he will, though...love the kid's work ethic and propensity for the dramatic catch when we need it most). Hopefully, next season, he truly "blows up" from a solid NFL starter into a potentially dominant threat to opposing defenses.

Brown did offer a lot to special teams (his 1000+ return yards in addition to his 1000+ receiving yards to clinch a new Steelers total yardage record are what propelled his teammates to vote him team MVP last year), but because he will be counted on to be an every-down player on offense from this point forward, his opportunities to produce on special teams will be severely limited, since the team does not want to risk getting such an important piece of our offensive puzzle hurt by some overzealous rookie gunner who is trying to make a name for himself by blowing someone up.

Essentially, what I'm saying at this point, right now, is that Wallace's 3 seasons of production in his 3 years in the league trump Brown's 1 season of production in his 2 years in the league. I do think Colbert and Khan will figure out a way to make it work to keep both guys here long term (even if we have never had 2 big money wideouts at the same time...this is a new era in the NFL...our front office is smart enough to adjust).

[BigRob]

Okay, then...for Wallace:

His 72 catches were 25th in the league last year.
His 1193 yards were 11th in the league last year.
His 8 receiving touchdowns were 11th in the league last year.

All numbers were better than Brown's last year. His catches were up 12, yards down 64, and TD's down 2 from his "blow-up" season in 2010.

Brown broke out last year, sure. He went from a 6th round WR that was our #4 option in 2010 to a legitimate starting NFL wideout in 2011. I love me some Antonio Brown, but when I think of "blowing up" I think of someone launching himself into the argument to be among the elite receivers in the NFL...Brown's not there yet (I hope he will, though...love the kid's work ethic and propensity for the dramatic catch when we need it most). Hopefully, next season, he truly "blows up" from a solid NFL starter into a potentially dominant threat to opposing defenses.

Brown did offer a lot to special teams (his 1000+ return yards in addition to his 1000+ receiving yards to clinch a new Steelers total yardage record are what propelled his teammates to vote him team MVP last year), but because he will be counted on to be an every-down player on offense from this point forward, his opportunities to produce on special teams will be severely limited, since the team does not want to risk getting such an important piece of our offensive puzzle hurt by some overzealous rookie gunner who is trying to make a name for himself by blowing someone up.

Essentially, what I'm saying at this point, right now, is that Wallace's 3 seasons of production in his 3 years in the league trump Brown's 1 season of production in his 2 years in the league. I do think Colbert and Khan will figure out a way to make it work to keep both guys here long term (even if we have never had 2 big money wideouts at the same time...this is a new era in the NFL...our front office is smart enough to adjust).


I think we would all agree we are a better team with both of them in the fold. I just don't see it happening. Wallace got trumped by Brown in the second half of the season and it seemed to effect him. I just don't see keeping them both long term. Now, keeping them both for the next two seasons is possible and will likely happen.

[Chadman]

[QUOTE=Slapstick;501952]Talk about conjecture!

QUOTE]

Figured if everyone else was doing it.... :D

[Chadman]

Essentially, what I'm saying at this point, right now, is that Wallace's 3 seasons of production in his 3 years in the league trump Brown's 1 season of production in his 2 years in the league.

Ta da! That's the whole point right there.