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Jooser
03-14-2012, 11:59 AM
HOLY COW! :wft:wft:wft

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/calvin-johnson-gets-seven-years-132-million-60-million-guaranteed/


Calvin Johnson gets 7 years, $132 million, $60 million guaranteed


Posted by Michael David Smith on March 14, 2012, 11:13 AM EDT

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/cal-johnson-b-meriweather.jpg?w=250 AP

The Lions were willing to spend whatever it took to lock up wide receiver Calvin Johnson (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4153/calvin-johnson) for years to come.
Johnson and the Lions are scheduled to announce a long-term contract extension this afternoon, and ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that it’s a seven-year deal worth $132 million, with $60 million guaranteed. That makes it the biggest contract in NFL history, surpassing Larry Fitzgerald (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1661/larry-fitzgerald)’s contract with the Cardinals.

The Lions’ website pegs the deal as “a seven-year extension worth close to $130 million (http://www.detroitlions.com/news/lions-insider/article-1/Johnson-signs-seven-year-contract/23aed8be-0e65-4551-859f-0a31187b15d8).” The site also says the contract reduces Johnson’s cap hit this year, meaning they’ll have more money available to re-sign linebacker Stephen Tulloch (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3936/stephen-tulloch), who now looks like their top priority in free agency.
The $60 million “guarantee” may not be fully guaranteed: As we’ve seen many times with NFL contracts, guarantees can be less than advertised. But Johnson will clearly be among the highest-paid players in NFL history, and as staggering as the numbers look, Johnson is worth it. He’s only 26 years old and coming off a phenomenal season in which he caught 96 passes for 1,681 yards and 16 touchdowns, then turned in a brilliant performance in the playoff loss to the Saints. And Johnson is known as a consummate professional, hard worker and good teammate who doesn’t get in trouble off the field.
This looks like a deal that should make both sides happy.

BradshawsHairdresser
03-14-2012, 12:06 PM
HOLY COW! :wft:wft:wft

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/calvin-johnson-gets-seven-years-132-million-60-million-guaranteed/

Looks to me like Wallace is going to be asking for a whole lot more than the Steelers are going to be able to offer him...:mad:

RuthlessBurgher
03-14-2012, 12:06 PM
It's the rare situation where the WR makes the QB, rather than vice versa...so pay the WR what would typically be considered to be QB money.

Jooser
03-14-2012, 12:08 PM
Isn't that more than we paid Ben?

RuthlessBurgher
03-14-2012, 12:20 PM
Isn't that more than we paid Ben?

3/3/2008: Signed an eight-year, $102 million contract. The deal contains $33.2 million guaranteed, including a $25.2 million signing bonus and a $3 million roster bonus in the second year.

Slapstick
03-14-2012, 12:30 PM
If Wallace wants to be paid like Megatron, he will have to produce like Megatron:

96 catches - 1,681 yards - 16 TDs

Playoff game vs. Saints: 12 catches - 211 yards - 2 TDs

I like Wallace, but neither his season nor his post season compare to Johnson's...

Mister Pittsburgh
03-14-2012, 12:38 PM
Wallace couldn't hold Megatrons jock.

feltdizz
03-14-2012, 12:57 PM
Anyone who wants to put Wallace in the elite WR category after seeing this contract is insane.

Crash
03-14-2012, 01:08 PM
Wallace and Megatron have the same agent too.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-14-2012, 01:11 PM
Don't hold Johnson's new contract on any level against Wallace. The old contract that Johnson got was the #2 pick on a different rookie base system that will never happen again. Johnson's number this year because of it was 20 mil plus. I'm hearing they threw out his final year and did a whole new contract and actually saved the Lions 9 mil this year. The remaining pro rated bonus had to be added by league rules obviously but you know the remaining of the 2012 20 mil salary was incorporated and more than likely was part of the bonus & gurantee. He was due 4.5 mil today on the old. Johnson didn't cut them a break in the checkbook...Only on the salary cap by doing the new deal. 21 mil of the old deal is in the new one. You will see when the official comes out it will be 8 year at 132 not 7. He will be on his new contract in 2012.

Oviedo
03-14-2012, 02:00 PM
A #1 draft pick looks awfully sweet right now versus watching Wallace walk and getting virtually nothing in return. The Steelers will not pay him the kind of money that the recent group of FAs have just got.

Please...someone sign him!!!!!!!

Dee Dub
03-14-2012, 02:34 PM
It's amazing how many Steer fans want to get rid of Mike Wallace. This is a thread about the best WR in all of football. A freak. One who compares to no other. Of course he is going to get ridiculousness money. But to say Wallace isnt elite because of the contract that Calvin Johnson just signed is even more ridiculous.

I am hoping the Steelers stay their ground and do not sign Mike Wallace to an extension. Not because I dont want them too but because if they do it will be just like LaMarr Woodley for a lot fans all next year. Unhappy, bitter, resentful,why arent you producing more for the money you are getting fans like we have here. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

hawaiiansteel
03-14-2012, 02:57 PM
Megatron deserves every penny he is receiving.

and I hope we find a way to keep Mike Wallace, we're a much better team offensively with him than without him.

Oviedo
03-14-2012, 03:03 PM
It's amazing how many Steer fans want to get rid of Mike Wallace. This is a thread about the best WR in all of football. A freak. One who compares to no other. Of course he is going to get ridiculousness money. But to say Wallace isnt elite because of the contract that Calvin Johnson just signed is even more ridiculous.

I am hoping the Steelers stay their ground and do not sign Mike Wallace to an extension. Not because I dont want them too but because if they do it will be just like LaMarr Woodley for a lot fans all next year. Unhappy, bitter, resentful,why arent you producing more for the money you are getting fans like we have here. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

OK Dee, repeat after me: "No one wants to get rid of Mike Wallace, but no one wants to get nothing if Mike Wallace eventually leaves!" Please say it three time with enthusiasm.

ikestops85
03-14-2012, 03:38 PM
Megatron deserves every penny he is receiving.

and I hope we find a way to keep Mike Wallace, we're a much better team offensively with him than without him.

I disagree about Megatron. The guy will only see the ball 5 - 8 times a game yet he is getting paid more than most QBs. He is arguably the best receiver in the league but that is way too much money ... not enough bang for the buck.

On Wallace I really thought we would lock him up long term before free agency began. I was hoping for a deal in the 7.5 - 8 million dollar range per year. Now, with all the high dollar signings that is a pipe dream. We will be lucky to get him for the 9 - 9.5 million dollar range. This stinks but I really want us to keep Wallace.

feltdizz
03-14-2012, 04:18 PM
I disagree about Megatron. The guy will only see the ball 5 - 8 times a game yet he is getting paid more than most QBs. He is arguably the best receiver in the league but that is way too much money ... not enough bang for the buck.

On Wallace I really thought we would lock him up long term before free agency began. I was hoping for a deal in the 7.5 - 8 million dollar range per year. Now, with all the high dollar signings that is a pipe dream. We will be lucky to get him for the 9 - 9.5 million dollar range. This stinks but I really want us to keep Wallace.

Calvin Johnson is the Detroit offense.. everything revolves around him. The new CBA left rookies out in the cold... the days of Matt Stafford getting 41 mill guaranteed before taking an NFL snap are over.

The Brinks truck is reserved for players who have proven their worth... Wallace deserves to get paid.

papillon
03-14-2012, 10:34 PM
I wonder how that contract will look if Stafford re-injured his shoulder? Just sayin, 60 million guaranteed for a guy that touches the ball 8-10 times a game...Hmmmm

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
03-14-2012, 11:23 PM
Many believe Calvin’s cash has been grossly overstated

Posted by Mike Florio on March 14, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/megatron-e1331778721327.jpg?w=250

A big-money deal for Lions receiver Calvin Johnson (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4153/calvin-johnson) had been expected, but no one really expected how big it would be.

And now the question is whether it’s really as big as claimed.

Initial reports pegged the contract as being worth $132 million over seven years (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/calvin-johnson-gets-seven-years-132-million-60-million-guaranteed/), with $60 million guaranteed. That equates to an annual average of nearly $19 million. And the truth is it’s nothing close to that.

The problem arises from the disconnect between “seven years” and the value of the deal. Lost in the description is the fact that Johnson already is due to make more than $20 million in 2012, the final year of his rookie deal. And so it’s a seven-year extension, creating an eight year deal — and resulting in an annual average somewhere between $15.5 million and $16 million.

The guaranteed money also is believed to be more like $50 million, with the fully guaranteed money under $40 million.

Without and extension and if the Lions used the franchise tag in 2013, Johnson would have made more than $46 million in the next two seasons.

We’ll defer further comment until the full contract can be obtained and analyzed. For now, the talk in league circles is that Johnson’s deal is being grossly overstated.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/many-believe-calvins-cash-has-been-grossly-overstated/

Chadman
03-15-2012, 01:10 AM
A #1 draft pick looks awfully sweet right now versus watching Wallace walk and getting virtually nothing in return. The Steelers will not pay him the kind of money that the recent group of FAs have just got.

Please...someone sign him!!!!!!!

This sentiment only holds if the Steelers can't sign him to a long-term deal. Both sides are keen to work it out from reports.

History will prove that the Steelers will find a way to make it work.

And then all the anti-Wallace's will watch every game in 2012 & shout "He should have scored 15 TD's by now" & complain that he doesn't play to his value.

You can paint it any colour you like Ovi- the constant banging on about Wallace not being worth the money & that you'd rather a 1st round draft pick instead of him isn't you wishing he sticks around. There are a few fans on here that have all developed varying dimensions of 'massive brilliance in their pants' over the output of Antonio Brown last season. After half a season of good output, these same fans have placed his value over the 3 year performer who has, statistically, performed at a level comparable to your mystical "Top 5" WR's.

Maybe what the Steelers should do is package Wallace & the Steelers 1st pick, trade up to the 12th pick, then trade the 12th pick for 115 7th round picks + a run blocking FB. After all- to win the SB, all you need is to score big on the UDFA's of the NFL & run block.

Who really needs those elite players anyway?

fordfixer
03-15-2012, 01:25 AM
Megatron is going to have to change his name to Megabucks:D

Chadman
03-15-2012, 01:51 AM
What a relief. Thank goodness for that- now he can afford to put his kids through school/look after his family.

If it had been any less than that- the poor bugger would have struggled to do both!

NJ-STEELER
03-15-2012, 01:57 AM
one thing this and the other high contracts these wideouts are getting does is increase the franchise tag if the FO was thinking of doing that to wallace next year

Jooser
03-15-2012, 05:18 AM
This sentiment only holds if the Steelers can't sign him to a long-term deal. Both sides are keen to work it out from reports.

History will prove that the Steelers will find a way to make it work.

And then all the anti-Wallace's will watch every game in 2012 & shout "He should have scored 15 TD's by now" & complain that he doesn't play to his value.

You can paint it any colour you like Ovi- the constant banging on about Wallace not being worth the money & that you'd rather a 1st round draft pick instead of him isn't you wishing he sticks around. There are a few fans on here that have all developed varying dimensions of 'massive brilliance in their pants' over the output of Antonio Brown last season. After half a season of good output, these same fans have placed his value over the 3 year performer who has, statistically, performed at a level comparable to your mystical "Top 5" WR's.

Maybe what the Steelers should do is package Wallace & the Steelers 1st pick, trade up to the 12th pick, then trade the 12th pick for 115 7th round picks + a run blocking FB. After all- to win the SB, all you need is to score big on the UDFA's of the NFL & run block.

Who really needs those elite players anyway?

:owned Atta boy Chadman. Well put. :tt2
Wallace will be back next year and put up stupid numbers in our new offense. Ravens fans were salivating at the thought of reeling in the threat that Wallace takes to the table, but he's still all ours for the taking!

Oviedo
03-15-2012, 08:03 AM
This sentiment only holds if the Steelers can't sign him to a long-term deal. Both sides are keen to work it out from reports.

History will prove that the Steelers will find a way to make it work.

And then all the anti-Wallace's will watch every game in 2012 & shout "He should have scored 15 TD's by now" & complain that he doesn't play to his value.

You can paint it any colour you like Ovi- the constant banging on about Wallace not being worth the money & that you'd rather a 1st round draft pick instead of him isn't you wishing he sticks around. There are a few fans on here that have all developed varying dimensions of 'massive brilliance in their pants' over the output of Antonio Brown last season. After half a season of good output, these same fans have placed his value over the 3 year performer who has, statistically, performed at a level comparable to your mystical "Top 5" WR's.

Maybe what the Steelers should do is package Wallace & the Steelers 1st pick, trade up to the 12th pick, then trade the 12th pick for 115 7th round picks + a run blocking FB. After all- to win the SB, all you need is to score big on the UDFA's of the NFL & run block.

Who really needs those elite players anyway?

Chadman--characterize it how you will but there has never been any anti-Wallace sentiment on my part. I am a huge Wallace fan, but I have serious doubts that the Steelers will match the salaries we have seen over the past 48 hours. I have consistently stated that it is better to get a Round 1 pick instead of nothing if the front office assesses that they won't engage in the WR salary insanity. Is that really anti-Wallace? I think not. It is just wanting value in return for a valauable asset.

As phillyesq has correctly pointed out we could still retain Wallace for 2013 with the "Franchise tag" and that is a potentially good solution but we still have serious cap issues that won't go away until 2014. You say I "bang away" on him not being worth it. I could care less if they paid him $10M a year in an uncapped system, however the reality is that we are in a capped system where everything is a zero sum gain and everything must balance. Some have no issue with paying the market rate and some do. If that is "massive brilliants in their pants" then so be but in the end it is nothing more than an exchange of varying opinions that some prefer Wallace and some, like myself, prefer Brown. In the end it doesn't matter because we all have zero input in the final outcome because we are all powerless to make the decision. We can just see how it plays out.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-15-2012, 09:52 AM
Many of you are just analyzing the year to total contract and thinking it is way out of reach. It really is eye candy and the specifics for Wallace long term deal need to be looked at. It is a very real possibility that Wallace sign a long term deal and his cap number for 2012 & 2013 is only in the 4-6 mil range. He could sign a 5 year 40 mil deal with 21 guranteed. 9-10 mil signing bonus. He gets 9-10 when he puts pen to paper and makes 4 & 5 over the next two in base & misc bonus. The deal isn't hard to do if they want to. The longer the go into the deal the bigger the cap gets. Just some FYI, you add a 6th to sweeten the deal with a large base & misc bonus...A 6 year 55 sounds insane but the chances are he won't play year 5 & 6 at his number but on paper it looks good.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 10:19 AM
I wonder how that contract will look if Stafford re-injured his shoulder? Just sayin, 60 million guaranteed for a guy that touches the ball 8-10 times a game...Hmmmm

Pappy

It will still look good.

Calvin Johnson had 77 catches for 1,120 yards and 12 TD's in 2010 when Stafford was out most of the year...

What happens when Ben gets hurt? Is Wallace worth 8 to 10 mill? It's not like he goes up and snatches the ball out of the sky when the passes aren't directly to him.

Oviedo
03-15-2012, 10:19 AM
Many of you are just analyzing the year to total contract and thinking it is way out of reach. It really is eye candy and the specifics for Wallace long term deal need to be looked at. It is a very real possibility that Wallace sign a long term deal and his cap number for 2012 & 2013 is only in the 4-6 mil range. He could sign a 5 year 40 mil deal with 21 guranteed. 9-10 mil signing bonus. He gets 9-10 when he puts pen to paper and makes 4 & 5 over the next two in base & misc bonus. The deal isn't hard to do if they want to. The longer the go into the deal the bigger the cap gets. Just some FYI, you add a 6th to sweeten the deal with a large base & misc bonus...A 6 year 55 sounds insane but the chances are he won't play year 5 & 6 at his number but on paper it looks good.

I hope that they are doing this. Like I said the key is to get the big money into 2014 and beyond. Until then cap problems will hamstring what we can do.

Chadman
03-15-2012, 10:20 AM
Chadman--characterize it how you will but there has never been any anti-Wallace sentiment on my part. I am a huge Wallace fan, but I have serious doubts that the Steelers will match the salaries we have seen over the past 48 hours. I have consistently stated that it is better to get a Round 1 pick instead of nothing if the front office assesses that they won't engage in the WR salary insanity. Is that really anti-Wallace? I think not. It is just wanting value in return for a valauable asset.

As phillyesq has correctly pointed out we could still retain Wallace for 2013 with the "Franchise tag" and that is a potentially good solution but we still have serious cap issues that won't go away until 2014. You say I "bang away" on him not being worth it. I could care less if they paid him $10M a year in an uncapped system, however the reality is that we are in a capped system where everything is a zero sum gain and everything must balance. Some have no issue with paying the market rate and some do. If that is "massive brilliants in their pants" then so be but in the end it is nothing more than an exchange of varying opinions that some prefer Wallace and some, like myself, prefer Brown. In the end it doesn't matter because we all have zero input in the final outcome because we are all powerless to make the decision. We can just see how it plays out.

Hehehe...you said "Massive brilliance in your pants".

Sorry Ovi- probably shouldn't have singled you out on this- just that your post was the one Chadman saw & latched on to. Consider Chadman a frustrated fan. Right now, we have a player that, despite our collective nay-saying, has produced 3 seasons, his first 3 in the NFL, of success that is compatibale, comparable, to the very best WR's the NFL has to offer.

At the same time, we have another player that rose sharply in production this last half-season & has, quite simply, given this team an exciting, dangerous & potentially dominant WR partnership for the years to come.

The comparisons some posters have made to the years the Steelers let Burress walk or traded Holmes to the situation we face now are inacurate, despite the similarities. Inacurate because, when Burress left, the Steelers could lean on a running attack that featured Bettis & Parker. Inacurate because, as we lost Holmes, Wallace had emerged from the shadows to replace him.

Right now, the Steelers have an inconsistant running game that cannot be relied upon, and a 3rd WR that has not emereged at all.

Losing Wallace, simply, makes the Steelers worse.

Substantially worse.

You simply don't let your strength become your weakness- particularly if there is no other area on the team ready to step up & become a 'replacement' strength.

The Steelers need Wallace & Brown & Sanders & Miller & Ben. Those player make the Steelers a play-off team. If you had to rank them 1-5, it's read Ben, Wallace, Miller, Brown, Sanders. Losing Wallace, a proven deep threat & NFL calibre WR significantly erodes this team. Losing Brown, an unproven but promising possession receiver, does not.

Chadman's point?

Don't get caught up in the shiny possibilities of 1st round picks. No amount of upgrades to the OL would reduce the impact of losing Wallace. Conversely- Cotchery could play Brown's role.

Oviedo
03-15-2012, 10:23 AM
It will still look good.

Calvin Johnson had 77 catches for 1,120 yards and 12 TD's in 2010 when Stafford was out most of the year...

What happens when Ben gets hurt? Is Wallace worth 8 to 10 mill? It's not like he goes up and snatches the ball out of the sky when the passes aren't directly to him.


I also heard something that he led the league the past few year in both end zone targets and percentage of success in the end zone. Dude is a beast.

Oviedo
03-15-2012, 10:34 AM
Hehehe...you said "Massive brilliance in your pants".

Sorry Ovi- probably shouldn't have singled you out on this- just that your post was the one Chadman saw & latched on to. Consider Chadman a frustrated fan. Right now, we have a player that, despite our collective nay-saying, has produced 3 seasons, his first 3 in the NFL, of success that is compatibale, comparable, to the very best WR's the NFL has to offer.

At the same time, we have another player that rose sharply in production this last half-season & has, quite simply, given this team an exciting, dangerous & potentially dominant WR partnership for the years to come.

The comparisons some posters have made to the years the Steelers let Burress walk or traded Holmes to the situation we face now are inacurate, despite the similarities. Inacurate because, when Burress left, the Steelers could lean on a running attack that featured Bettis & Parker. Inacurate because, as we lost Holmes, Wallace had emerged from the shadows to replace him.

Right now, the Steelers have an inconsistant running game that cannot be relied upon, and a 3rd WR that has not emereged at all.

Losing Wallace, simply, makes the Steelers worse.

Substantially worse.

You simply don't let your strength become your weakness- particularly if there is no other area on the team ready to step up & become a 'replacement' strength.

The Steelers need Wallace & Brown & Sanders & Miller & Ben. Those player make the Steelers a play-off team. If you had to rank them 1-5, it's read Ben, Wallace, Miller, Brown, Sanders. Losing Wallace, a proven deep threat & NFL calibre WR significantly erodes this team. Losing Brown, an unproven but promising possession receiver, does not.

Chadman's point?

Don't get caught up in the shiny possibilities of 1st round picks. No amount of upgrades to the OL would reduce the impact of losing Wallace. Conversely- Cotchery could play Brown's role.

You talking about what is in my pants is somewhat disturbing.:wink:

I understand your position about what Wallace does, but couldn't we agree that we shouldn't dismiss Brown as a "possession receiver" like it is a lesser contributor. I think we could make the case that Brown provides a higher percentage of positive plays every games than going bombs away to Wallace. Which offers more? The answer is probably "it depends." Depends on the situation. Depends on the game. Etc.

I think we all agree they are complementary and I would not be quick to dismiss possession receivers. Wes Welker is probably the most important player on the pats behind Brady.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 10:39 AM
I don't think Crotchery could play Browns position... he is old and isn't that fast.

I don't think anyone believes we will be better without Wallace but if we are going to lose him it's helps that we would get a first rounder.

Also have to remember that we are talking about Wallace in a vertical BA offense that we loathed at times due to going deep too much instead of moving the chains. I love what Wallace can do but also remember what our offense was ranked last year and how awful we were in the red zone.

My biggest worry with Wallace though is his ceiling.. has he hit it? What has he done in big games and in the post season? What happens when Ben gets hurt again because we all know Ben can't play the game without taking unnecessary hits?

Crash
03-15-2012, 10:40 AM
I don't want Ben to play like Carson Palmer. The minute they do? Trade him.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 10:43 AM
You talking about what is in my pants is somewhat disturbing.:wink:

I understand your position about what Wallace does, but couldn't we agree that we shouldn't dismiss Brown as a "possession receiver" like it is a lesser contributor. I think we could make the case that Brown provides a higher percentage of positive plays every games than going bombs away to Wallace. Which offers more? The answer is probably "it depends." Depends on the situation. Depends on the game. Etc.

I think we all agree they are complementary and I would not be quick to dismiss possession receivers. Wes Welker is probably the most important player on the pats behind Brady.

exactly.... this season, if Wallace stays, we will get to see him in a tweaked offense and maybe it will re-enforce what he does well or what he can't do.

It's not like Wallace is going to get targeted more than 5 to 8 times a game just like the other WR's getting big money and if we question their big paychecks what makes Wallace any different?

..and the issue some fans have with Wallace is his need for a perfect placed football to be effective.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 10:45 AM
I don't want Ben to play like Carson Palmer. The minute they do? Trade him.

No one said he had to change his name and game... but there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the rules the NFL has in place and a hobbled Ben doesn't make our team better.. and it definitely doesn't make Wallace better.

Crash
03-15-2012, 10:48 AM
No one said he had to change his name and game... but there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the rules the NFL has in place and a hobbled Ben doesn't make our team better.. and it definitely doesn't make Wallace better.

You can't just chuck the ball away from the pocket to avoid a sack. See what happened when Tom Brady did it in the Super Bowl? Grounding.

MOST of the hits Ben takes are jail breaks from the pocket. That can't change until the quality up front does.

grotonsteel
03-15-2012, 11:03 AM
You can't just chuck the ball away from the pocket to avoid a sack. See what happened when Tom Brady did it in the Super Bowl? Grounding.

MOST of the hits Ben takes are jail breaks from the pocket. That can't change until the quality up front does.

:Agree

O-line has to improve. People say Tom Brady makes his O-line better. If that is the case why do NE keep spending high draft picks on O-line?

Draft a OG and OT early in the draft and i think Offense will improve tremendously. Running and Passing game both.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 12:21 PM
You can't just chuck the ball away from the pocket to avoid a sack. See what happened when Tom Brady did it in the Super Bowl? Grounding.

MOST of the hits Ben takes are jail breaks from the pocket. That can't change until the quality up front does.

The hit Ben took that almost broke his leg was unnecessary IMO. I know we can't predict what hit will cause injury but that play was dead...

I'm not talking about chucking it when inside the tackle... I'm talking about waiting for Wallace to get open 40 yards down field when Heath is open underneath. There were plenty of hits on plays where Ben has time to throw it short.

Hopefully this new offense will help "tweak" that part of his game.

Crash
03-15-2012, 12:28 PM
Rolling pocket and David Johnson missed his block (big surprise I know).

That was also a play were we had two WRs being covered by six Browns, and had 7 guys blocking and still gave up a sack.

Put the blame where it belongs.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 12:57 PM
Rolling pocket and David Johnson missed his block (big surprise I know).

That was also a play were we had two WRs being covered by six Browns, and had 7 guys blocking and still gave up a sack.

Put the blame where it belongs.
Who said the OL was without blame? The problem is EVERYONE knows the OL is suspect and Ben defended these guys like they were good.

If this is the OL we have Ben has to get the ball out quickly or he will continue to get killed.

Crash
03-15-2012, 01:00 PM
The problem is EVERYONE knows the OL is suspect and Ben defended these guys like they were good.

That's what leaders at the QB position do. Always have. What do you want? For him to pull a Peyton and call them out?

Then what would you say? "Ben is selfish, Ben is calling out teammates", etc.

feltdizz
03-15-2012, 01:21 PM
I knew you would say that's what leaders do but you can't have it both ways...
Ben has been selfish in other areas why not be selfish when it comes to protection?
I wouldn't call been out if he demanded a better OL... I would applaud him.

It's like a guy who loves his old clunker car and defends it anytime the wife ask for a new one. Is it really the cars fault when the guy tries to go 95 on a cross country trip?

Point being...

the OL is suspect and Ben knows it... we all know it, so get rid of the ball quickly.